DRM and how to get rid of it

How to we properly fight this growing menace? Is there nothing left to do but pirate everything?

Other urls found in this thread:

extremetech.com/computing/246314-farmers-pirating-john-deere-tractor-software-stick-man
npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2015/08/17/432601480/diy-tractor-repair-runs-afoul-of-copyright-law
npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/04/09/523024776/farmers-look-for-ways-to-circumvent-tractor-software-locks
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome
youtube.com/watch?v=sS9olPA2BK0
youtube.com/watch?v=qwEMwzn4PwI
energyskeptic.com/2015/why-tokamak-fusion-not-likely-to-work-out/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

kys

sage

Yeah user, I'm totally telling you to go out and buy a tractor.

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I'm actually serious.
Not about the "install Gentoo" part, but about free software.
It's the only rational model for a world where information is this readily available.

There's nothing you can do. If you refrain from purchasing a game you like because it has DRM, then you lose out on being able to play that game, and nobody will give a shit because there's hordes of faggots out there who don't mind the DRM cock up their asses who will buy the game and support it without you. If you pirate a game, this does nothing to curb the billions of dollars that the video game companies acquire from the previously mentioned faggots who love DRM penis up their ass. If you try and convince others that DRM is shitty, well then you can only do so much, because you're really making assertions about something, and anyone can do that, so there will be opposition in the form of people who believe that DRM is legitimate for various reasons. You'll only be able to sway so many people. If you write an angry letter or something, nobody will care.

So, in short, there's nothing you can do. If you don't like DRM, then pirate everything. If you want to support a game but that game has DRM, there's nothing you can do, so you will suffer.

Tractorfags btfo. How will they ever recover? Off to a good start.

Why the fuck would a tractor have software?

I'd guess modern machines can't function properly without electronics and a screen telling you how much shit you got done. It so the manufacturing companies can make more money by forcing farmers to abandon their "old, shitty" tools in favor of "new, better" ones.

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It's nothing new, but it's still worth talking about.

How do would get professionals obtain income working full time on a free product?

so they can fuck you up the ass with maintenance fees because selling you a tractor is not enough and they want you to pay out the ass for repairing it too

They largely don't. Most people who contribute code to free software projects are either: 1) coding something that they themselves need, and simply choosing to share it with the world, 2) doing it because they enjoy it, 3) want the recognition of contributing, or 4) trying to learn more about software and better themselves.
It's kind of a moot question, since thousands and thousands of people already write free software around the world.

Smart tractors?

By having them do it as a hobby or a labor of love.

This sounds like actual communist propaganda.

From what I remember, it's software is just so that the tractor goes straight. If it were to just be slightly off, it would create a ripple effect on the rows for larger fields. And when you are probably out there for hours, goung straight is going to numb your brain. Take my shitty attempt in oekaki as an example.

Did you know that farmers cand reuse seeds because the DNA of the seeds they buy are copyrighted?

It's a common term, you idiot. Have you ever done something you liked, that you didn't get paid for, that resulted in a useful product? That's a labor of love.

I help build the church that I go to for free. Does that make me a communist?

its not that they cant re-use seeds its that the crops literally don't produce any seeds so they're forced to buy them again each time they want to plant more

I cand belieb dat

It goes farther than that, actually. A lot of Monsanto seeds are specifically designed to only produce one viable generation, without making any new seeds.
It's like DRM but for plants. It's pretty fucked up, especially considering that, unlike vidya, the result of the "DRM" going wrong is mass starvation, rather than just boredom.

In Venezuela maybe :^)

Yes, but basing an entire sector of the economy on that, let alone the entire economy, is retarded and actual communism.

Nope, but it is in every English-speaking country. :^)

1. I'm not saying we should do that. I don't even think free software development is really part of "the economy," since nobody is getting paid.
2. Again, it's a moot point, because that's the way things are right now in free software development.

Purely out of interest, what are the arguments against DRM? I don't mean ones that are dependent upon platform like games not being available offline or restrictive modding etc, I mean as a whole? Are there any?

The most common con of DRM I hear is the argument that legally you don't directly own the games you pay for, but since that's true of literally any serial code bought game you own it's also nonsense.

I'm genuinely seeking to understand the mindset behind dislike of DRM

Its pretty fucked up that Copyright laws hurt farmers more than anyone else.

heh

By not being a retard and knowing how to circumvent ignore this shit? Shit city boy I ripped out the electronics to my tractor and rigged it to start and stop without it. Don't need any of that shit.
Although honestly it wouldn't surprise me if none of you know jack diddly about mechanic work. Y'all probably never even worked on your own car before.

...

Also, confirmed for Satan.

Almost all commercial farming is digitally managed, sometimes 100% so

Most tractors are semi automated and a large percentage are now fully automated these days

Then we aren't we seeing any open source tractor software? Why are there more Neo Geo games than there are free video games, period?

I laughed at this more than I should have.

I don't know. Maybe there's not enough interest. Or maybe most software developers don't have the knowledge required. Maybe tractors have some kind of weird proprietary computer system that's difficult or impossible to run unauthorized software on. I'm not really the right person to ask.

Yes, because you are putting labor into a project with no monetary reward that you as a consumer can put back into the market to keep the wheels of the economy turning. In a way, you're being labor cucked. Jesus was a literal communist FYI.

Fam, just stop. Let's not derail the thread this early.

Fake news.

That's not an argument against DRM, it's an argument against Monsanto or their licensing practices. It doesn't relate for several reasons including

1. They attempt to own the license whereas with DRM the license resides with the developer/publisher
2. They attempt to create monopoly or net cost by restricting license issuing, DRM can't and doesn't other than as a platform by sabotaging competitors, but that's a separate argument unrelated to DRM

If there're any valid arguments against DRM I'd genuinely take them serious. I have a library of over 2000 games I've never paid a cent for and that was only possible because of DRM, that and the countless other benefits of DRM mean I'm 100% at a loss as to why someone would ever consider it the lesser option, let alone saying it's a non argument or non option

Every peer-reviewed journal article about DRM concludes that DRM reduces sales and hurts customer perception. I know this because I had to write a paper on DRM for a business strategy unit case study assignment. If you're a student and have access to journal article databases you'll see this as well. DRM should dissapear on it's own in time when businesses realise that DRM doesn't bring value to their product.

The end consumer has a fundamental right to ownership of all facets of his property. Unless the consumer is "renting" said property he should have full rights as an owner as the property being sold by the producer is no longer the property of said producer.

Five seconds on DuckDuckGo.
extremetech.com/computing/246314-farmers-pirating-john-deere-tractor-software-stick-man

Farmer replaces broken part
tractor still doesn't work
computer in tractor says that the code has to be cleared by a ((QUALIFIED JOHN DEERE))
tech with a reset code.
Basically like having a ford mechanic come to your home to reset your car after a flat tire.

Reported for intl.
Holy fucking shit, do you think people will fall for your shit anymore?

I don't think you know what communism is. Either that or this is some really shitty bait.

Communism is stealing money from people who earned it to give it to people who didn't at gun point.

Okay seriously has anyone here actually owned or worked on a tractor?

Well 1. That's a legal argument and very much dependent upon what the law says in your country, in most countries this isn't the case, instead the consumer has a right to use the software in any way they see fit under the terms of the license, in Europe that includes making a backup copy etc

and 2. That still isn't true of games bought via serial and therefore isn't really an argument either way. At best you can say that the law should change but DRM shouldn't

I have for my grandfather a few times.

Same with socialism, and yet socialists want to pretend that Marx didn’t call them communists, too. Funny what people will try to get away with when they know they’re up against people who won’t kill them on sight… yet.

No, that's socialism. Communism is even more retarded.

VADE RETRO SATANA

Information is as easily accessible as air these days. Imagine having to pay someone for air.
DRM reduces the total social utility of information by reducing people's access to it, in a way that's disproportionate to the profits that encourage a company to continue producing it. Basically, it produces an irrational externality of prohibiting information access in an age when information access is trivially easy and abundant.
I look forward to hearing you say that this isn't a "valid argument, because I know how this song and dance goes with your type."

Socialism is stealing money from people via mind tricks first AND then if it doesn't work they use guns just like Communism.

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Kek, fine by me, nice post.

Also, what's wrong with DuckDuckGo?

Actually I'm more of a nationalist centrist :^)


You're working for free to produce an end product where you as the worker get zero compensation. Literal communism.
Labor cucks.

Jewish owned, sells all your metadata to third parties and the government, RECORDS everything you do while on it and your links out, etc.

I'm fine with hearing arguments. I just know what you're going to do. But by all means, surprise me.

Gee, how about that.

capitalism is literally the same thing. workers produce goods, all the money goes to the asshole sitting at desk all day doing nothing pretending that working hard for a few years to make the company is deserving of getting millions of dollars for doing nothing compared to the people who work under him for many more years and for far less pay.

Entitlement goes both ways

Are you retarded?

Also, please, please stop trying to derail the thread.

there is only one thing you dont fuck with, and its farmers

Fucking with the people who feed your country is never a good thing to do. Why have farmers historically always got the short end of the stick?

That asshole at the desk invested in his own education, social connections and capital instead of comic books and video games, thats why hes the manager of the factory and you're just a slave. You're a slave coz you're a useless piece of shit who wasted his time and money on things that don't generate wealth.

When it comes to a physical copy, you can resell the product on the open market, make backup copies, play the game without installing patches, and you can live with the comfort of knowing that as long as you own the disc, and nothing happens to said disc to ruin the data, then you'll always have access to the game. With digital games, you can do the same, but your access to the data is mitigated by an external factor outside of your control, i.e. the DRM platform. Your purchases are associated with an account that itself will impose stipulations on your conduct and usage of the software in question. If you do something the authorities of the DRM platform don't like, say good bye to your purchases forever. Yes, it's reasonable to a certain degree to impose restrictions and codes of conduct on the end user, but in most cases the end user does not have the ability to negotiate how these stipulations are formed or contest when they wrongfully and negatively impact them.

In short, all of that bullshit is ineffectual when you own physical copies or if you pirate, and this is what people mean when they say they would like to truly "own the product'. Everyone knows that you don't own the actual data itself, you are licensed a copy of that data, but once the transaction for physical goods is completed, the merchant is absolutely unable to dictate what you do with said goods. People don't like having the possibility of their entire purchasing history being revoked from them at a moment's notice hanging over their head.

Just start making appliances and games that don't have DRM and don't use anything that has ever had DRM in it. Everyone here has all the resources they need to make their own games or equipment like tractors with ease.

im sure white people could have prevented that drought.


except im generating wealth for the person up top
it's why the warehouse i work at pays out yearly profit sharing to all the workers

don't purchase DRM, you're welcome

Companies on the whole go by bottom line. If the game on a DRM platform garners more sales than off a DRM then I don't see how that can be true and that's been the case for nearly two decades now, particularly console platforms and Steam. The only thing we can draw from that data is that a publisher should sell both on DRM and off DRM in the interest of bottom line.


That's not even close to what he said. I'm getting shit for addressing the replies directly instead of going off on some gay tangent, you people are hilarious.

That person up top deserves it because he invested his time and money more wisely than you did. Also no-one is forcing you to work there, start your own business if you don't want to work for someone else.

because they seem uniportant while peoples bellies are full

Haha, you're a funny one.

What if you're a farmer? What are you going to do, not buy tractors and seeds?

Agreed 100%, but that's an argument for owning physical copies and NOT an argument AGAINST DRM

Plus I've made more money selling games behind DRM than I ever have open platform games, including both GoG and Steam so ultimately it the argument goes the other way too

That's their prerogative. The argument against DRM doesn't depend on aligning companies' interests with everyone else's. It's like asking for arguments against murder and then saying that those arguments go against the murderer's interests: obviously they do, and that's not a problem.

You don't see how more people would have certain information if there were fewer restrictions on it? Again, not talking about profits, only about how widespread the information is.

Yes it is.

I should've clarified what I meant as "compensation". What I was referring to was money. Money gives the laborer free reign over the rewards of his labor. The government shouldn't take his money to give him products he could've gained from his own reward. He should have every right to use all his money and not have it taken for some shitty government funded housing. It's about freedom of the individual, communism is slavery of the individual for the benefit of the collective.

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Apparently if you're a farmer, the solution is n the OP: pirate John Deere software and laugh.

But you still have to buy it.

you choose to be a man or a slave. the fact you blame others for your own failures shows that you'll forever be a slave regardless of what form of government there is.

No, socialism is the totalitarian process of redistributing wealth, both through force and coercion, putting the means of the producing labor and goods entirely in the hands of the government. Communism is the supposed end goal of socialism, where we all live in a stateless society (after it willingly dissolves) devoid of hierarchy (without anyone around to enforce that) where the means of production return to the people, who are individually responsible for earning pay equal to their productive work. I say it's worse because it's absolutely retarded and not grounded in reality - it's an anarchist's wet-dream.

No, literal socialism.

I knew it.


???
Pirating software at no point entails buying it. Are you talking about the tractor?

Can we stop arguing about what is and isn't communism and get back to talking about DRM?

Sad!

I would like to, but these niggers are determined to derail. Just filter them.

Then why bring it up as a counter argument if you're going to dismiss it.

Your argument against companies earning less profit absolutely does. Now your switching to a moral argument and comparing murder to DRM

That's not what I said, I said if that isn't the case then this can't be an argument. And since DRM sales far outweigh non DRM sales then it's a backwards or broken logic.

If you're talking purely about information and not software then there's no argument either way against bottom line.

I wasn't aware that pirating software excluded someone else from owning that copy. :^)

The farmer could always use a horse and plow instead of a tractor.

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I am talking about tractors. You buy the tractor that has the DRM already on it, therefore you are buying the DRM. Also, the fuck are you going to do when your seeds have DRM genetically engineered into them?

Because they are a minority and city folk don't know where their food comes from.

don't buy tractors or seeds, only grow food amish style to your own family & friends, when the copy right owner starves, ask the piece of shit 'how about dem copy-fucking-rights'

DRM is in fucking coffee machines as well.

But even if so, DRM is not the main problem. The main problem is any form of intellectual property other than trademarks.
DRM makes a product worse. If there is no copyright, DRM would mainly be useful for the first weeks, after which you would be nearly forced to remove the DRM from your product (or at least constantly update your product with features and DRM) or anybody who broke your DRM is now a competitor with a better product because it doesn't have shitty DRM. You have plenty of aces in your hand if you are the original manufacturer. But right now we even give you a legal monopoly on goods that do not need one. And that is a very stupid thing to do in a capitalistic system.

There are mountains of proof that intellectual property is bad for the growth of a market. But it benefits a few and we seem to be unwilling to take it away. Sure, it sounds good on paper, but it has been shown to not be good plenty of times.

I didn't.

I'm not arguing against companies earning less profit. And again, their profits on copies sold has nothing to do with the best interests of society as a whole, given that the variable costs of "producing" more copies of software is zero. If you're going to make an argument about the long-term viability of a DRM-free society, then fine, we can talk about rewarding the fixed cost of the development, with a little extra as profit. But as far as I can tell, that's not your approach.

It was an example to illustrate that my argument didn't depend on the interests of the party performing the act that I consider objectionable. I wasn't saying that DRM is comparable to murder. Apply yourself.

Again, not relevant to my point. "Steam > GoG" is not really relevant to the argument of whether DRM itself is justified. GoG is smaller than Steam because most big publishers are reluctant to sell their new, higher-priced games without DRM. It's a symptom of DRM's dominance, and nothing more.

It's easier to lay blame when you say "they" or "the system" instead of a specific person or people so you never have to find evidence which allows you to whine forever.

A huge portion of it is companies who are using free software, but need it to do something that it doesn't, so they add the functionality and then push it upstream so the new functionality gets maintained and updated. That's how my company works and there are tons who do it the same way.


For the tractors, because most programmers who write free software aren't buying tractors, and most farmer's don't program.
For games it's that making games is a massive time investment and usually takes a lot of skill, and most people with that time and skill would rather program something else, because programming games takes a huge amount of busywork, automation-averse bug testing, and mind-numbing asset pumping. A decent game can take a team of 5 professionals over a year full-time to make, which is the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars of labor. It's not the same as a FOSS website or file manager plugin that one dude can spend 5 hours on a weekend hobbling together. Most massive free projects do make a large profit for the developers (like the Linux kernel or Firefox) because it takes inhuman dedication to spend that amount of time for no personal gain.

That is completely inviable in this day and age.

I am taking the bait.
Which slaveowner was responsible for all the problems of slavery? We could have just killed him and saved everyone a lot of time.

piracy is a mechanism of the free market. people pirate shit because they perceive the product as too expensive, which is true. The only way to combat piracy is to lower prices and make cheaper options available. Real world observations of this include Adobes cloud service subscription which offered much cheaper prices and the ability to subscribe to whatever programs you actually use, instead of buying a several thousand dollar creative suite. Adobe's market share and profits soared with this strategy. In the music industry online offerings and the ability to buy individual tracks for cheap , reduced piracy and increased profits too.

Communists don't believe in the free market or the field of economics and just quote marx all day, saying DRM is evil capitalist shit when they don't even know what capitalism is and that DRM is actually against the interests of the company.

The real people behind our problems are right in front of your eyes. For gods sake they print their labels right on "your" money for fucks sake.

There was and is nothing wrong with slavery. But in the modern context and your environment besides alimony, there isn't slavery.

So I take it you wouldn't mind being enslaved, then.

Slavery is shit, and I'm not arguing from a moral perspective. Having a major sector of your economy be run off the backs of an ethnically foreign labor force by force is a shit idea. It's the reason the US has such a big nigger problem now and always will.

Farmers just need to be able to innovate to avoid the tractor jew like pic related.

The argument is this:
A: People want to purchase goods
B: People do not want the merchant to dictate their access to the goods after purchase
C: DRM platform exists to regulate how the consumer can access the product that he purchased
These are all true.
B clashes with C. The existence of DRM clashes with the consumers' desire to have an unregulated product. Yes, I am essentially making the argument that, "it's bad because I don't like it." With piracy or physical copies, you are ensured that your product is free of the DRM that hinders your ability to do with it as you please.
Now we're back to the previous argument that I laid out in the last post. People don't like DRM because it hampers their ability to do with the product as they please. They can't resell it through conventional means (i.e. you can't keep your account on Steam and sell individual games; if you want to sell, you have to sell the entire account), they can't alter it without express authorization from the DRM platform, they can't legally make archives, and their access to previous versions of the data is restricted. Furthermore, their conduct is bound to a user account and a terms of use which can be revoked at any time and at the discretion of the DRM platform. If you have violated terms, then you are likely unable to do anything to reverse the revocation of your account, and you certainly will not be able to influence how the terms of service are formed. You're at the complete mercy of whatever the DRM platform expects of you, and there's nothing you can do about it. This is what I said in the previous post, and this is why people dislike DRM.
No. Piracy happens for numerous reasons, and it will continue to exist. However, it is likely that those people who pirate because they dislike DRM will have no incentive to do so, and will have no problem spending money for an official license of the product.

So, that's an argument against DRM.

Wut? Im telling you to stop using that shit, use startpage.

That was only a small part of slavery for a (relatively) short time. Historically, most slavery was unrelated to race, and usually concentrated in cities. The form of slavery that took hold in the US was unique in its racial aspect, its agricultural aspect, and its greater brutality.

I would mind. Which is why I'd take steps against it, but if I were to become a slave, it'd be due to my inadequacies and I'd try and find a way out. Not whine like a bitch and ask for change that'll never come.


That's an externalities that the US didn't account for. I'm not saying whether slavery is good or bad, I am saying it's neither, and the nigger problem is one most didn't think about. To some people the nigger problem may be worth it, to some not.

Post proofs.


Tell me about startpage.

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Then you don't actually condone slavery. You're just claiming you do.

Lot's of those railway chinks escaped the tracks. Lots of Jews escaped the holocaust. Not my fault your black ancestors were retarded.

lol, they didn't even castrate the niggers

I do condone slavery. The weak must fear the strong.

I mean compared to other forms of slavery in Western history.


You don't. You condone being a master. There's a difference.

They shouldn't have.

there cannot be a master without a slave.

I see that you're a very educated man in the modern sense of the word.
Maybe you should look into those strange Muslims and their fancy practices throughout history (some starting to flare up again) instead of repeating bullshit you've been fed without any critical thoughts applied to it.

Of coursr they escaped the holohoax, it never fucking happened

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But it should have.

Do not have anything to do with it. Do not buy, pirate, discuss, or giving those shit any light of the day. If you are feeling esoteric, you can also meme magick Denuvo and any other DRM into bankruptcy, but that is going to take a lot of digits and wizards.

Skipping on games that you want to play on DRM is painful, I know. But perseverance and discipline will see almost anything through. Imagine one day some hot-shot AAA came out with DRM and nobody buys it even if it is 10/10 just because it is on DRM. Kikes in the management are going to drop that sack of shit like a hot potato.

Think again!

You're right. But a world with neither is also possible. And strength and weakness would still exist in that world, because they're inherent to each individual.
If you wouldn't be willing to join the fucked-over part of any system, you don't actually want the system. You just want to have power that you didn't earn.

Because city workers and salarymen have very VERY bad inferiority complexes.

This is pretty much the only thing that can be done, I just don't think there are enough people with that kind of willpower anymore especially on Holla Forums

DAY OF THE TROWEL SOON

I meant in European history, read my other posts. Obviously non-Western civilizations are going to be more brutal. It wouldn't make sense to compare American slavery with non-Western forms, since they're different civilizations. It's cute that you think you had a "gotcha" moment, by the way.

The power is always earned either by the individuals or their ancestors. Here you are blaming others for your woes again. Stop buying anime figures and invest your education or business interests.

Buddy, don't talk shit about slavery in america if you don't know jack shit about it.

Power is always earned. If it isn't, it will be instantly taken away.

Everyone has the ruler they deserve.

you're the kind of fag that whenever someone is murdered blames the gun instead of the murderer aren't you?

You can't actually be this stupid.

Joke's on you, I hate animu.
I am. I do pretty well for myself, actually. That's why I can shitpost on Holla Forums on a Tuesday afternoon.

That's basically saying "wait for businesses to become less greedy". I honestly do not believe this will ever happen. They'd sooner go out of business than to stop chasing ghosts in fear of "lost sales".
Unless something completely reforms or does away with copyright laws and all the bullshit it spawned, this will keep being a thing.

No, only a slave thinks that.


Very true, like how the vast majority of lottery winners end up worse off not long after spending it all on useless shit.


You have to construct some kind of ludicrous world where Holla Forums memers rule the universe to attempt to make an argument? Okay buddy.

Yeah I am a billionaire too.

Here’s part of what I have.

No, businesses need to become MORE greedy if you want them to get rid of DRM. DRM equals lost sales and customer dissatisfaction across every case study.

sure thing

You're not very intelligent, are you? Replace "Holla Forums" with "Jews" or "communists" or whoever else you think is in charge, or was in charge. The point is to illustrate that systematized robbery isn't "earning" jack shit.

Never said I was one. You really are dumb, aren't you?

That's not a bad idea actually.

If no one is able to contest it, then it is earning it in every meaningful way. Whining about imaginary rightfulness doesn't change anything. And giving up your power because someone else whines about imaginary rightfulness is a folly.

That's the thing though. It's that same greed that causes them to freak out over these "lost sales" created by pirates and implement DRM in the first place. Everyone's stuck in this mindset.

...

And some people here on every pirate threads saying stuffs like "Companies are lazy, taking easy way out (DRM) to get shekels." while they just complain and buy/pirate that turd sandwich and continue to do so without realising that they are also doing it the 'easy way', just complain and hope that DRM will stop some day while contributing to it.

How the fuck did this happen

DRM does not affect modding and performance in both video games AND tractors, only butthurt poorfags spread misinformation.
It's not going anywhere EXACTLY because you're keeping being poor and keep pirating shit. Stay salty.

So basically, the status quo is always right?
Jews deserve to be at the top like they are now?

Robbery is earning.

I'll be sure to let you know that next time you're robbed.

Yes. If you don't like it, then change it or die trying, you lazy whiner.

But apparently I have to like it, because the way things are the way things should be. There's no difference, according to you.

I have been robbed once and it WAS my fault for choosing to live in a shitty neighbourhood at the time. I now live in a better place and haven't been robbed since. Everything is under your control to some extent, stop being a baby.

Since you didn't provide context and Mark didn't delete your shitty nonvidya OP, have some articles about farmers hacking their equipment.
npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2015/08/17/432601480/diy-tractor-repair-runs-afoul-of-copyright-law
npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/04/09/523024776/farmers-look-for-ways-to-circumvent-tractor-software-locks

That's not what right means
You can't change the definition of what's actually right, you can change what we understand is right but you can't change what "right" actually is.
Unless you believe "might is right" but then stop shitposting and go work out or something.

lel
Congrats on being a weakling cuck faggot, I guess.

there is no morally right or wrong.
Might is right is how it's always been, how it currently is and how it will always be. Become mighty or stay weak.

Lemme know how your ancient japanese martial arts defends against bullets.

Up your reading comprehension before trying to argue about even simple shit.


Only "rights" you have are those no one can take away, ergo might makes right.
Why are you aiming this at me? I'm not whining about muh rights being universal without enforcement.

You keep implying I'm a weeb. Are you projecting?

People are okay with not technically having legal ownership of their games because without DRM they have de facto ownership of their games anyway. It doesn't really matter if the EULA says I don't own it when in practice I can fuck around with it however I like, install it on as many computers as I like, etc.

Up yours. You've constructed a worldview in which any action ever taken is fine, or at least where there's no grounds to object to it. Now you sperg out when I tell you that this implies that the status quo must always be perfect?

Stop making me wish for things that can never be.

Morality for the retards who think are enlightened because they broke out of the spooks called society or something:
We're arguing over how things should work on a system.
This system, I shall call "society". Right now its flawed, its sobbering, its decadent, but don't pride ourselves in that because you're a byproduct of it and you're not actually harming it, your shitposting here is just proof that you're bored or that someone legitimately is trying to break the system. You can't break the system. "Harming" the system is beneficial to it, as mentioned, it needs to have fail-safes and to enhance itself.

We're trying to argue if this system should include Copyright law in it.
No, you aren't. You're pointing a flaw in the system every time you rob someone or promote your "might makes right" worldview. In the future, the system(society) will immediately disintegrate you for being a ungrateful bastard.
t.user

That world view is not constructed, it's reality. He didn't say there are no grounds to object either, he said if you don't like it change it yourself, stop being a whiny bitch.

All worldviews are constructed. He said that the status quo is always right, which is a personal, subjective perspective–i.e., a worldview. You are legitimately retarded, and I hope you get robbed twice.

The status quo IS always right because they are the most mighty. You can either change the status quo by becoming mightier OR use the status quo to your advantage (leveraging their might). Example is every-time you depend on the police, you leverage the might of the state/police in your favour.

Free as in Freedom, not free as in free of charge. Just don't put the source code on a public server, instead include a zip or tarball with the compiled binaries or provide it to customers only when they ask for it. There, problem solved.

Okay but then why are you whining at Communism earlier? They managed to take a few countries by force and they're rightfully theirs now.

What is the point of even having a conception of "right" if it doesn't mean anything? You're just advocating apathy that pretends to be something else. All you're doing is saying, "What is, is," in lieu of actually having an opinion on the world.

shill detected


listen up everyone, we need to go FULL FOSS AND FOSH.

everything needs to make a strong unstoppable sudden move to free open source hardware and software.

it's the only way to save computers and videogames

DUBS DON'T LIE.

shamelessly checking them.

Where would you fit in a world like

You don't own nothing, goyim.

Probably just a hired gun with a lot of loyalty.

Thanks for the "accurate information", friend computer!

My opinion of the world is that it simply is. Whatever rule or government is in charge doesn't matter, sure forms of government have more or or less pros and cons but you as an individual should simply work in your interests. If you surely want to make a change in society, go a head and try but it's best to worry about your own survival and interests and use whatever is available to your advantage. Example despite preferring less governance and taxation I take advantage of every socialist style subsidy, tax and welfare benefit I can by transferring my wealth to trusted family members to hide my wealth.

If I may add, I also asked Stallman about this and he considers that to be fully Free Software. All that matters is that the person receiving the software from me has the four freedoms, it doesn't mean I have to give my stuff to any random person out there. The reason most Free Software is also free of charge is unrelated, there is also software free of charge which is not Free.

what does this meme? are you implying that by pointing out shills, that I somehow AM one? that's the oldest shill trick user.

Anyone here played it? Is it fun?

Communism is inferior, but if they are in charge of my society I'll be the best comrade ever because in those societies its always the best government connected that thrive.

In terms if whether it's right then yes they take it over with force it is rightfully theirs. However all communist societies implode. So they don't remain communist for long. e.g USSR.

Did you reply to my post by accident?


That's the same as having no opinion. I'm not interested in discussing what is right or wrong with someone who has dedicated himself to avoiding those questions while pretending otherwise.

You played paranoia? Give me tips, I wanna GM it at some point in the future.

Yes it is.

It's not avoiding the question, it's that the answer is neither. There is no right or wrong. Right or wrong is determined by you individually or as a society, whoever is in charge.

You need to stop thinking in black and white terms.

Where do people like you come from? I actually cannot wrap my head around your thought process. Do you just enjoy sucking your corporate master's cock?

npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2015/08/17/432601480/diy-tractor-repair-runs-afoul-of-copyright-law

...

I recall a while ago in Australia, Playstation lost a court case to prevent console modding, coz in Australian Law a judge can just deem whether it's fair or not regardless of what the EULA says. Sucks US judges are so cucked.

Oh, do go on about some of the more humane versions of slavery that exist besides the US kind.

Slavery in ancient Rome and Greece, for a start.

The WW2 concentration camp kind that didn't happened but should have.

Rich chinks used to take hobos off the street, house and feed them in exchange for becoming servants. Not sure if it counts as slavery though since, they weren't held against their will.

Wage slavery is pretty good. You can even try to get a better deal without fighting the local law enforcement.

VIDEO GAMES

That's a relatively recent phenomenon. At least in the US, all strikes were acts of civil disobedience until the National Labor Relations Act was passed in 1932.
Also, "wage slavery" is a cute term, but it's not actually slavery. It's still shit, though.

No, I'm implying you're a paranoid computer form a future millennium that keeps executing innocent people

user let me you into a secret
You can't just throw that image at people and expect them to not hate it. I've been called a shill enough times by now to know that image is garbage used on innocent people.

That game was written by a literal cuck.

...

Good point. Even earlier, you wouldn't call a member of a city professional guild a slave even though he was heavily restricted by law about selling his labour.
True, I was being jocose.

He even donated money directly to Anita Sarkeesian.

No.

Then its not slavery. Its a very fortunate job. If you have ever gone hungry like I have then you would fully understand just how thankful you'd be for shelter and food in exchange for service.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome


Yes it says that ultimately more human provisions where added in but they where still subpar compared to what US slaves could accomplish, at least from what I'm reading so far. Including complete freedom from their masters.


ayy I'm doing that right now.

I don't think so. Slaves in ancient Rome could buy their own freedom, and slavery was often for a set term. Neither of those applied in US slavery. Maybe there were rules in the US about what you could and couldn't do to your slaves, but if so, I've never heard of them.

Why hasn't this thread been shoah'd yet? Hot pockets asleep?

how is an excellently presented and information rich image that exposes shills and their tactics a bad thing in any way? you're just bullshitting.

I had to study a shit load of slavery in the US as part of the liberal meat grinder that is standard US education and it actually varied from state to state with some sovereign citizens going out of their way to form the Underground Railroad in the northern states and some states not complying with return policies southern slavery states had and revoking on the state government level the institution of slavery completely.

My central point I was trying to press upon you is that the notion of a 'more humane' slavery is asinine. A temporary slavery is longhand for prison, obviously with a work sentence attached. Slavery is permanent and damning. It is a terrible experience to go through where your independence and liberty is revoked.

Anything else is not slavery, but some form of temporary punishment.

My grandad is a farmer and his furrows are straight as fuck. In fact, he boasts all the time about his furrows being the second straightest in town.
He doesn't need meme machines telling him how to make straight furrows. That is for faggots and the farming equivalent of script kiddies.

slavery never ended. it just expanded to include everyone.

...

You know you owe every cent you have to the Federal Reserve, plus interests, right? It doesn't matter where you're from or where you live at the moment. If you have a single coin of modern currency, that coin is owed to the Fed, plus interest.
Enjoy """capitalism""".

Oh, I see. That's fair. I wasn't trying to imply that slavery would be OK as long as it followed the ancient model. Thanks for the input.
I'm going to sage and stop responding for a while, because this thread is kind of fucked and I'd like to see it get back on track.

are you implying that it is not? if not, then I have doubts you even read the image at all and just want to criticize it.


this poster is obviously a shill and I used the image to point out that they are obvious in their tactics.

basically "give up"

If the image isn't good, then why are you so upset? why are you so interested in discrediting it?

The only thing I can think of is that you were motivated to express dislike towards my comment for other reasons, or is that something you didn't want me to know?

youtube.com/watch?v=sS9olPA2BK0

Why are you shilling your shitty tractor on Holla Forums?!

This is what retards actually believe about vidya.

holy shit that's some bait alright
you know what user, you sound like a shill to me

better question is why do people reply to threads without reading them first?

You make a good point. What if the image is good but the people that use it are a few IQ points form being -80?
Like god damn, its your jewel of life. There are people shilling this image outright in random boards like >>>/liberty/52432 , which I'm half sure you wrote because you're trying to spread it the same way he did.

I don't think everything will be pirateable forever. And I don't mean the newest and latest DRM like Securom or Denuvo. I mean in the sense you can't pirate bitcoins, and there's right now layers on top of bitcoin that allows trading of artificially scare digital assets, e.g a trading card. From a performance standpoint, its very impractical now for a game to be run on a cryptocurrency layer, but later on as technology improves, I can see it start to be a thing.

How is that bait? anyone can clearly and obviously see the motives of this poster.


I think the only one here afraid to defend their argument is the very same person who has no argument in the first place. please explain to me why the shill image is bad besides emotional reasons like "because It makes me feel bad"

So let me understand. Your whole argument is basically "You can't debate with unless you have the help of my image, which proves its true".

Gosh user, what If go outside and get hit by a meteor? I mean really? so people shouldn't know about shills because one in a thousand people visiting Holla Forums might be retarded? nice logic.

the image is not actually bad, however the poster is and tries to discredit people who even slightly disagree with it because if you do you are obviously a shill no questions asked
sage for offtopic

let me make this easy for you.

is an obvious shill. it's too damn easy.
I post this image so that people become aware of this obvious bullshit taking place here.

I'm not telling you what to do. I'm making you aware of the fact that something is going on and providing Holla Forums with information of

you can debate with shills all you want, but you wont change their minds since their goal is to manipulate social communities. it's kind of pointless, like debating you.

Until some power hungry cunt gets you suicided.

Says the retard who didn't check my spoiler.

you're seriously going to tell me that I'm using the shill awareness image simply because someone disagree's with me?

read their post again and read the shill awareness image and tell me that their behavior doesn't match up.

This comment made my day. A bold and short statement to a degrading board culture. I will take a ban for you any day.

No better yet. I think people shouldn't post that .jpg because certain people who have made a blood ritual with their .jpg file can't live without it anymore. So if we laugh at that specific .jpg, the retards that are going it will leave, creating a better Holla Forums
Yes I can.


Good god why is a tumblrina whining here?
No, let me explain it to you again.
That image is trash. The million archetypes can be used to argue that a lot of posts are shills instead of having to actually post an argument, which half of /gamergate/ loved because arguments weren't a thing back on reddit.
This image or at least its original "SHILL TYPE:" text has never been more than a glorified post for when people don't want to actually argue.


Oh lord why do you think anyone gives a shit before and after the image I think that guy is a faggot you're not a savior form Eden

God bless you user.

no kidding. im still wainting for the crack for nier automata there is no way in gonna buy it with denuvo.

but it always likw that.

What next DRM for houses? paid subscription fees to use your own driveway?

no I'm not
I take issue with this statement
if the image isn't good, you need to discredit it, just listening and believing leads to being easily manipulated by shills

Yes. Do you think the internet of things is just going to stop at microwaves? Hell no! (((They))) are going to macro level that shit as fast as possible.

blood ritual? what the fuck user?

I didn't say anything of the sort. the shill awarness image does help though. everyone should post it when a shill is suspected. question everything. you may eventually discover who you are not allowed to question.

you are a turbo ultra newfag if you think "ok" is a bad image. did it hit a senstive spot? did it do too good of a job exposing your ill logic?


so basically you're really upset because I posted it, you think it's trash but wont give any good reasons why, and you want to convince me to stop posting it to make you feel better.

did that sum it up?

Wow. This thread went south.

property tax.

Wait shit
I get it
You're trying to make me apply the knowledge form the image
People aren't talking about DRM now mostly so I guess I'm leaving

South of where?

Antarctica.

chaim you are obviously trying to discredit the image because it's fucking great m8 and I BTFO your shill buddy with it. no raises or bonuses from shill CEO for you today ;^)

You're not very bright, are ya son?

nice bailout, bro. n-nice to d-damge control y-you t-too.

I love how you want to pretend to smugly take the false high ground after your utter defeat.

You're stating he obvious. Humans don't glow.

You're a cheeky cunt, I'll give you that.

Give me what?

the dick

...

...

Where is it? Is it the one I already have?

The paddle.


Sonny, this here ain't the homosexual board.

no, it's mine, I'm going to temporarily deposit it in an orifice of my choosing

But how can you bring it over here when you are over there?

If you really want to fight DRM then learn to make shit and release it without DRM.

Leave it in Iowa tractorfagshill.

I shall move myself

SHUT IT DOWN
I'm sure if you ((((idiots who just happen to like talking about dicks in a video game thread)))) keep posting like that the mods will delete this thread.

very convenient for you

But how can you move over here when your on the other side of the computer screen?

the voice of reason. exactly why everything needs to be on linux, without systemd, and FOSS FOSH

free open source software and hardware = victory.

Stop buying games with DRM. DRM doesn't work anyway.

unlike idiots who just happen to like talking about slavery in a video game thread?
also I'm saging all this time due to being offtopic/shitposting and you aren't

you can't be this stupid. you want me to think you were just browsing on Holla Forums and saw a tractor thread and came in here to post your disapproval of tractors for no reason other than the fact that you believe someone is trying to sell you tractors on a video game board on Holla Forums?

But I'm no software developer. What am I to do?

It's not startpage.

Why so serious?

Little did you know user, my goal this entire time was to get all the broke NEETs on Holla Forums to buy tractors.

...

that's stupid, I could just buy tractor simulator 20xx and stay at home
youtube.com/watch?v=qwEMwzn4PwI

dicks are also a part of storytelling, having a dick implies being male and as we all know males have a great representation in stories of all kinds, including video games
so, talking about dicks is perfectly okay on a video game board
now, historical philosophy is equally important but I implied it isn't just to mock you

by that logic, squirrels are also an important part of storytelling because they breath oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide similarly to how adolf hitler did.

nice damage control

video games are not excusable, and therefore are not property.
if you pay for video games you are either being tricked or its a charity.

true, exactly. because we can never excuse EA for the horrors and atrocities they have commited in videogaming

It's a flawless plan, really.

How do you do oekaki without being OP?

Delete system32

I's a browser ad-on for Opera.

this sounds fucking amazing

playing a video game with other anons about tractor racing would be about as much fun as racing RC tractors in real life but a thousand times less expensive

So pretty much tractor sized battlebots?

user, your thinking is all wrong.

I see oekaki on other boards e.g. Holla Forums but unlike Holla Forums it's not in the (((javascript))) "show post options", I was asking about that not Holla Forums.

squirrels can be important in a discussion about storytelling when they are presented in the right context, like "the symbolism of squirrels in literature"
without context to tie the content to the topic you are just being offtopic
now, both the discussion about dicks nor slavery is not at all tied into the topic of this board, right now it would be more appropriate for /h/ and /his/ respectively
if you approached it differently, like "why representations of slavery in video games are shit/great because of something", then it would be perfectly on topic

Christ, I heard you can't even plant apple seeds these days.

You'll find it, I believe in you

It's in the reply box at the top of the web page, not in the pop up box.

user, your thinking is all wrong.

...

Wew I didn't know that tree piracy was this old.

that makes sense.

oh yea?


btw where has slavery been represented in a video game before?

that's why monsanto is basically the EA of farming. drm on seeds.

you are creating context to retroactively alter the content, nice try Patriot

But in real life, he had to yell to the worker to work faster because the machine had not been under the maintenance schedules following it's design specification and has a loot of improvised quick repairs for saving on replacement pieces and for not spend time halting the production due to machine repairs, so as years pass the utilities of the factory start to decrease because of the rise production on costs due to operational incompetence, lack of quality contorl and wages on extra work hours to achieve the production goals, but it doesnt matter because they dont have to compete due to a contry-wide economic olygarchy and protectionism and/or the industry can survive trough goverment subsides so the boss can just relax and live off the misery of the lower ranks.

Bussinesmans and rich people might not like capitalism because it forces them to work, also if at a factory somebody has to work faster than the normal working speed is mostly due to a planing and management mistake.

t. industrial maintenance technician.

I'm just giving you a taste of your own medicine.

I never said anything like that, just told you neither slavery nor dicks have anything to do with topic at hand without the right context

make an AI to kill DRM and people who make DRM tbh

besides, this thread already has an established context which needs to be adhered to to stay on topic and neither slavery nor dicks nor shills for that matter fit in it

You're the one that doesn't make sense. Of course the arguments against DRM are going to be tied to the specific thing it's bundled with. The implications are not always the same because the thing it's bundled with changes, but the general idea is always invasive restrictions.

You seem the know what DRM does to games. It's the same for all things. The restrictions change, but they're always invasive restrictions.

your stupid or just pretending now. I'll let it go. it's fine.

>besides, this thread already has an established context which needs to be adhered to to stay on topic and neither slavery nor dicks nor shills for that matter fit in it

exactly my point. shills don't belong here, which is exactly why we need to fight back by spreading awarness so they lose and go away.


shill


justifies the posting of shill awareness image

I see that you are a person of great fondness to liquor. Your posts get more and more strange and nonsensical as you go on. I still like all of them. If we had a full 100% concentration of posters like you, we would be in the literal Valhalla on earth: "The endless party in heaven".

it's another way for them to drain your wallet

farms have been becoming extremely digital for years now. i grew up in a farm town and one of my best friends in high school lived on a huge-ass corn farm, and i got to see them go from rudimentary DOS shit to manage their enormous rotation water sprinkler things to some insane fucking GPS-driven military-tier shit that monitors everything from soil moisture to fence integrity

Yeah, sorry. It was meant for

Oh so just because I reply to many different posters regarding many different topics all while fighting off shills with my bare memes, I must be an alchohol. the endless party doesn't begin until we realise that time isn't real

a Real Human Being and a Real Hero

you mean physical concept of time? it's just a 4th dimension of space

hpw do you know it's the 4th and not the 5th, for example?

DRM is a part of capitalism. Corporations want to protect their investments but also control their customers.

Wow, it never fails. Ignore race completely for a moment. You remove a group of skilled labor from your country and blame them for all your problems, then take all their property and give it to a bunch of your own lackeys who are not experts in that field. That part of the economy then collapses. No one is surprised except the greedy fucks who did this in the first place.

This has happened hundreds of times in history, it always happens during regime changes. What was different this time was the people who had stuff taken were white and it was farming, leading to the mass starvation of the country.

If this had been any other time in history that this obvious, repeated pattern had happened, you'd say 'well, of course when you disenfranchise an entire skilled labor force you are going to suffer economically for it'.

But because it was white people, 'oh no, it was the drought, I swear, we never needed those fucking white people, whaaaahhh…'

You are pathetic and your racism is disgustingly obvious. At least Holla Forums have the guts to admit they're fucking racists.

The other half of capitalism is the assumption of an informed consumer with free choice. The mere fact that we have people in this thread DEFENDING DRM, something that does literally nothing for them as the consumer and makes the product they paid for objectively inferior to a 'stolen' version of the same product, show we've long ago moved past informed consumers.

If people really looked out for their interests as consumers, the games industry wouldn't be the dumpster fire of DRM, microtransactions and season passes it currently is.

that's pure semantics, how we call the dimensions is irrelevant, however our universe might have more dimensions than those 4 of course but we are unable to interact with them due to being 3 dimensional creatures, time being slightly different than space for us due to our inability to travel back

time is a man-made concept, though.

Truly amazing how you can brainwash people into doing all kinds of weird shit

It's a real human "bean"

I mean it as in the mainstream understanding of the word "time"
you can still be late for things, but only beacause our reality in and of itself is "the matrix" and time is simulated here for the purpose of our experience.

actually, if you know anything about Holla Forums you know that they believe that "racism" is a social construct used to construct a narrative of white guilt and other social issues.
image related.

this is exactly why shills like this exist. some hidden groups want to keep the customers uninformed.

I've never heard Holla Forums deny being racists, and in fact, the point of those examples is generally to show how racial preference is okay as long as it's not white people doing it.

Same thing with how SJWs try to say non-whites can't be racists, because racism is 'Power + Prejudice' to justify their own anti-white racism because they don't have the guts to admit how much they hate white people.

Holla Forums just flat out says they hate anyone not white.

we can measure it and see how it affects the world, the dimension itself isn't just made up

the ones who talk like that rationalize that their dislike of others is natural and an instinctual survival mechanism. they believe that racism as a term was invented to make people feel bad for following their instincts to put it very simply.

how can we prove that dimensions are even real without using imperfect man made concepts as context?

I have heard that argument there, but not often.

Also, nice dubs. Appropriate especially considering the topic…

we clearly can't, but with knowledge we possess right now it seems they indeed are, at least until we learn of something that could only be explained by assuming otherwise

thank you mein Holla Forumsro


mandela effect

actually, sorry. the mandela effect may prove dimensions real, but still disprove time and our reality as a concept simultaneously.

I prefer not to discuss things like quantum physics because I don't fully understand them and I know what it leads to
Bioshock Infinite

Consumers actually are not smart.

Marketing works, social pressure exists and most gamers are too lazy to do research.

most people are lazy and stupid except for the ones who aren't. they fear the intelligent. they fear the monsters they have created.

Sorry about that. I made an assumption based on your posts. And it turned out to be false (only you know). Maybe some projection is involved.

Time is not actually real. When Voyager1 probe crossed the "line" border between our suns effective solar radiation, to outer space, we saw that there was an impossibly strong force acting on our sun, that was the speed of our solar system. Even pushing against it in near void, it creates friction, and without solar winds, every planet would be flung in to the abyss.

That makes it impossible for us to leave this solar system in the next 1000 years. Unless we try really hard to escape the doom.

Well, all capitalist theory hinges on the idea of the two compete forces of business and informed consumer balancing each other out. That's what a lot of people don't understand about capitalism.

If there is no informed consumer, then capitalism as a system doesn't work. At all. The entire system is hobbled from the start without one of it's basic components.

don't worry about it bro

This was too good to pass up

I'm putting my chips on tokamak reactors. They actually work. Fucking Russian engineering, but ITER (202X) looks great, and Large Hadron Collider can suck my balls, for having near zero real impact in science. I'm going to have to sage for I have lost the original point.

I'm glad.


intredasting

Where in the fuck is there software in tractors? I have three, and I can firmly state that there is fucking zilch that requires software

so someone with absolutely no skill, talent, or habitability other than at a fast food restaurant?
Yeah, blame the system for your own faults, I'm sure you'll go far there Marx.

It's so the CIA can hack your tractors

You'd be surprised how many Holla Forumsacks are, in fact, not white.


If memory serves, racism was a term coined when communism was introduced to Russia. A term that completely defies the logic of tribe mentality, putting your own tribe's interest above the interest of other tribes and tells you that you're intolerant for not allowing other tribes to infiltrate your own and allowing them to reap the benefits of your resource gathering. No, because your tribe became so powerful suddenly it's your tribe's responsibility to provide for competing tribes that would gladly chuck spears at you because you don't sacrifice a virgin on a stone slab to appease their god Enki, which you'll now have to start doing because you must enrich your tribe with every other tribe's culture.

your
fault

If you prepared yourself accordingly and wore a suit of titanium-steel heavy plate armour everywhere, you wouldn't have had a bullet problem.

I don't know what you're all talking about but remember that being bullet proof doesn't automatically translate to bullet pressure pounds per square inch impact proofity.

see Holla Forums for vendetta.

damn straight

energyskeptic.com/2015/why-tokamak-fusion-not-likely-to-work-out/


Nice try but once the oil and coal runs out its back to the Victorian era for humanity.

I would have said the same about solar 30 years ago, in a few years the projected advancement of solar is set to out compete coal and oil

JUST BUY A GOD DAMN VOLVO TRACTOR!

SHOO SHOO VOLVO SHILL

But every Farmer HAS to have the latest AAA tractor release by John Deer if they want to call themselves Farmers.

Get out you filthy tractor shill.

download a car

you dont really have the option of fighting it as a consumer these days. youre outnumbered by people who dont care. even i dont always care.
what you can do is make video games and not implement dragon drm.

what kind of warped sense of logic
oh, youre one of those