Unpleasant choices in a cold unfeeling world

licking a dogs asshole or a horses asshole

Would you rather watch your parents have sex every day for the rest of your life, or join in once.

willyoupressthebutton.com/

What is the ultimate payoff in these ultimatey pointless dilemmas then? You expect me to annoy and torture myself without some sort of reward?

The problem with these choices is how would they effect the "gameplay" as everyone always mentions. Does the story world and the gameplay world live on separate sides of the fence? At best you'll get a different chain of quests/missions. Unless that decision was part of the games main plot, this will simply be just a check list option with maybe someone at the end of the quest stating what you did and it never gets mentioned again. If its part of the main story, how much of the rest of the game would be different because of the decision? Would your character still go to the same places but now have different dialog?

I remember a few rpgs did something similar to this a while back. Basically, if you save the girl, she becomes a permit party member and stay your slave because that all she know, since that would be best way to show the player decision matters. While killing her would give you the membership and lets you complete the mission. The membership itself would need to do something gameplay wise like gathering information with additional dialog information about the guild that otherwise would not have existed and instead would have to do things "the hard way". Why does that player have to snoop around and stalk potential ring leaders when they can just go up to someone and ask? This is also assuming the player character does not want to buy slaves.

oh good, the immediate derailing got culled.

Well, if I had to say, if you pay the fee but choose not to kill the slave girl, she joins the party as a fairly useless companion, sort of like the spouse you can shotgun marry in Fallout 2. She might have an interesting dialog tree, assuming she speaks a language your character knows.

And of course, if you're in the mood, you could always just ignore the abolitionists entirely and play an honest-to-goodness slaver… at which point you may be given a mission to disrupt the abolitionists.

But, basically, what I'm looking for is a game in which playing a "good" person is nearly impossible. In which you have to choose between petty victories that change nothing, or making sacrifices for the greater good.

And of course, if you're giving the player moral and ethical dilemmas, the last thing they should have is an easy out. The player shouldn't just be able to sneak into the slaver's guild, find and crack the right safe and find all the illicit documents they need, so there WOULD need to be a reason they couldn't just do that.

Don't you have to make enough shitty choices in real-life?

It's usually more under the hypothetical situation that you cannot take any action beyond the binary choice you're offered, and are expected to pick the one that you believe guarantees you the least suffering. The pay-off is getting hurt the least.

Just make good and evil choices and a secret third one were you fuck up both parties, because fuck you im not the fedex boy.

You made this thread again?

Maids cleaned up the mess

It's just pretty bad game design, broy-o.

Nice tumblr cartoon you've got there, champ.

Slavery is a perfectly moral thing to do if the only other choice is killing them.

OP's dilemma is more of the traditional question about if suffering of the few is acceptable for the benefit of many.

Try Alpha Protocol. The writing is very good, but the gameplay isnt that great. Still your choices actually matter in the long run. I played it over 10 times in a row for a few weeks and every time felt different because of the choices I made during the plot. There is no mortality or something like that but the way you talk to characters opens and closew aspects of the Story. Likewise with possible choices.

Both are effortless.

You sacrifice for the greater good while freeing a fucked either way girl from her hellish life with a quick, easy instant death that's going to be avenged.
You stop a faggot and let 2 countries who hate each other anyways settle their differences.

REDDIT CARTOON GET

There's a chair with a cake on it and a chair with a dick on it, you sit in one chair and you eat whats on the other chair, what do you choose?.

Witcher 3 has some decisions like that, though maybe not as many or as harsh as you're looking for.

I mentioned earlier in another post, but if you pay for but choose not to kill the slave girl, she stays with you. You legally own her, and she has nowhere else to go other than back to the slavers. You would have the option to give her a happy life.

heres an unpleasant choice
you can shoot your brains out to save a county from being conquered by communists or you can enable a neighboring country to be strong enough to defeat the one thats gonna be conquered by communists

Binary choices, binary morality. Real life may not be so simple as black and white, but neither is it ever so simple that you only have two options.

So basically you want a game that is a series of Trolley Dilemma's?

Why even stop at forcing people into arbitrary choices?

What if instead of being a sneaky spy and killing that girl I just become a bandit and murder all of the slavers until everyone is too afraid to be one. Why can't I just go completely off the rails and do things the brute force way? or playing devils advocate why shouldn't I have an option to make a choice that is an easy way out? Why can't I run for mayor and peacefully outlaw slavery resulting in no deaths and the 'bad guys' seeing the error of their ways?

Killing myself for the nation would make me literally a commie, though.

Authoritarians can't think outside the box.

I have one

Do you eat the spaghetti and go to the rap battle knowing you'll vomit on your sweater? Or do you let the spaghetti slip and seize everything you ever wanted at the cost of your mother feeling like a failure?

Exactly my point. The OP's suggestion sounds like a hamfisted attempt to make the paladin fall. When presented with two evils you do not pick the lesser, you refuse both and create a third option for yourself.

Easy. Put the spaghetti in your belt pack.

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>>>/degenerate/

Because for a vidya you need to code in all that shit.
Not just the choices themselves, but the consequences of each choice, every NPC's response to each choice, and the criteria that determine which choice the player makes.
That's a hell of a lot of overhead to get into a niche already filled by just doing /tg/ shit with a good DM.

That said, I would like to see someone try, but I wouldn't expect the endeavor to meet with much success.

If you think that's degenerate, you'd better not click on this

Doesn't that also answer the OP's question?

Video game makers take the easy way out and don't put in meaningful consequences because once you get past 3 or so choices things start to pile up fast and you have to make content for all of those possible routes.

Anyway since OP seems interested here are some neat links that discuss ethics problems at length and more than that inform you of how your own choice reflects your worldview.

friesian.com/valley/dilemmas.htm

trolleydilemma.com/

dude horses have the best assholes to rim you're crazy

I'm game. Let's explore some consequences for just slaughtering every slaver and freeing each slave.

In this world slavery is so ingrained in its society that the only way to get rid of it is to bring down the people running it, to prove that they're corrupt. It has its opponents, but it's not so unpopular that it's not under any immediate threat of criminalization. So the abolitionists' only weapon against the guilds is public perception. It's a PR war.

And then, one day, an abolitionist walks into one of many slave guilds and slaughters every slaver and lets loose on the streets every slave. Will this endear the public to the side of the abolitionists or the slavers? Probably the slavers. Will the slaves you freed have legal rights and freedoms, or will they be chased down and killed/captured? Probably the latter.

In the end, you won't have accomplished much of anything if you go that route. You won't have contributed to the abolishment of slavery, (if anything you probably extended its lifespan). The only thing you would accomplish is feeding into your own self-righteous ego.

So that's one potential branch/choice you can follow. Any other thoughts?

Or you revel in edge like I would if a third option is possible and do one of the possibilities: kill until x are literally too afraid to do their shit.

That's retarded and asspulled. But have it your way; keep hunting down slavers in increasingly brutal ways and watch the fear slowly take hold from a single person doing all this, not even considering if others follow their example.

Start stewing doubt in the hearts of abolitionists and make them yearn for giving into anger and using violence themselves to liberate.

Is it really? I explained in the first post why you're going undercover as a slaver in the first place: the law of the land is indisputably on the side of the slaver's guilds. In order to bring them down lawfully, you'd need evidence that they're corrupt and acting in an unlawful manner.

And I didn't even get into the personal consequences of slaughtering legally innocent civilians just because you find them morally reprehensible. You'd yourself become a criminal in the eyes of the law.

If you become strong enough or even powerful enough to take out entire strongholds on your own, then there's going to be a point where the law no longer means shit to you, only your own sense of justice you carry out.

And you only said proof of breaking the law was necessary for the normal way then other anons pointed out they want to take a different approach.

Dude I'm just asking for a game with moral complexity, ethical dilemmas and genuine consequences for your actions.

If you wanna play righteous messiah that can do no wrong, there's already plenty of games out there just for you. Pic related.

Alright so the slavers are open and accepted. Their initiation is questionable in this situation but i guess that means that killing slaves is perfectly legal.

In this situation, one should expect the abolisionists to know of the initiation ritual beforehand. If they do not, they are incompetent and working with them is a bad idea anyway. If they know, and didn't say anything, they cannot be trusted and working with them is a mistake.

So lets assume they know, and we've talked about this beforehand. Time to create a new plan. I think the best option while sticking to the same general approach (it might be more realistic to find a completely different approach, but that goes too far outside the given situation) is to find a way in advance to fake the killing, then extract the "dead" slave while infiltrating.

Fuck that. And I didn't say I wouldn't diverge. I would keep doing what I did best until I won even if it meant my character would go down in infamy as a necessary evil.

And all I did was point out realistically, anyone could just eventually stop listening to the law and do what they know is right. If the law gets in their way just because they're submissive pussies too loyal to a diseased "order" then cut them down with it.

Look, it's fine. I get it. Don't worry, Mass Effect Andromeda is being released in just a few days. You're covered, I assure you.

Stop being a dismissive faggot just because you don't like my method.

Maxim 6: "If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it."

You *method* is a juvenile power fantasy. And don't get me wrong, those can be fun, too! But that's not what I was looking for in this thread. This isn't about might makes right, this is about weighing your options and deciding if the good of the many is worth the suffering of a few. This is about not having your cake and eating it too, about accepting that not everyone gets a happy ending.

Slavery is wrong when it's done to humans. Enslaving Africans or other animals is perfectly moral, although it can have a detrimental effect on the economy of a nation.

What is going on with the vols lately? Why have you guys gone full retard?

This isn't about happy endings, you fucking faggot. I simply want to end slavery as forcefully as possible by driving overwhelming fear into the hearts of faggots that would do it. Anyone gets in your way? Kick their ass or even kill.

I said nothing about ignoring the worldwide and societal consequences all that relentless bloodshed brings. The character does not have to care what anyone thinks about what they're doing or how black and white asshurt authorities get about breaking the law.

How much can you use?

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And I'm not saying you wouldn't be allowed to slaughter and kill whoever was in your way. I'm just laying out what the ultimate consequences of your actions would be: in the face of adversity, they're going to cling even harder to their ways and customs. They'll battle your self-righteousness with their own. It's human nature.

Then they all die for their stubbornness clinging to injustice.

There's the ultimate consequence for those irrational faggots.

kek

And think of human nature yourself. You expliclity stated it's fucking slavery. Are people supposed to think you're wrong going to extremes to liberate people from literally being treated as animals and forced to do whatever they want just because they kidnapped them or bought them from someone else who did?

Fuck no.

user, I'm just seeing how far I can take this shit before it all blows up.

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I wasn't, but I am taking advantage of the possibility of going full Coldsteel just to ultimately produce results.

Now for the long version.

First off you mention that exposing that slavers kill slaves as part of their initiation will somehow turn the public against them. Why? Does this society for some odd reason accept slavery but frown upon killing slaves? How do they keep slaves in line if not with the threat of death?

Also you are mistakenly thinking that killing the slavers is taking PR into account. It is more or less taking the terroristic approach, forcing people to bend to your wishes through fear. From a political standpoint it also forces people to radicalize which turns slavery into a hot button issue, inflaming the passions of people on both sides leading to a spiral of ever more hard-line actions (see for reference American Civil war) until things reach a breaking point.

Secondly there are those slavers who will say to themselves "holy shit I don't want to die over owning some slaves fuck this I'm out". In short violence works.

But really, I fail to see how showing that the slaver illuminati are killing slaves will turn people against them. In just about every culture killing a slave was like breaking your lawn mower. Slaves weren't considered human and if people saw you kill one they may have thought it a shame but it certainly wasn't illegal (at worst you would pay a fine). If slavery is as widely accepted in your world as you make it out to be I really doubt that people would care.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_codes#Violence_against_slaves

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatment_of_slaves_in_the_United_States

So you weren't pretending, you're just a retard.

/thread
and now fuck off back to reddit with your shitty show, OP

No, I just want to do things the more blunt way than diplomacy and you don't like it.

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I can't remember, but I think Papers, Please had at least some elements of "fuck you for doing the right thing," but it's been a long time since I've played it.

Also, why is nobody pointing out that slavers are distinct from slaveholders?
It's a fucking important distinction.

That's all you have to count on. One by one people will literally start asking "Why do we care what happens to these pieces of shit?" "Why are we even trying, let alone putting our lives on the line to preserve to right to someone that isn't even us to treat someone like that?"

This black and white shit is nonsense.

There's also the issue of who the slaves are. There's a big difference between "My neighbor is a slave now, but I probably won't be next if I keep my head down" and "Ship's back from Mars/Zimbabwe/Prison #93904 with new slaves. Might be getting a few for the farm today."

Wow, OP, that's some really deep writing you came up with.

I was thinking maybe there would be a game where you have a girl as a companion and you both get tired and occasionally need to sleep. The problem is: the girl has night terrors (her grandfather would capture a skinwalker and have it tied down in her closet in full view of her bed because their eyes glow in the dark and he figured it would make a cheap alternative to nightlights. She was also responsible for feeding it and cleaning up after it) and a heroin addiction (when her grandfather accidentally killed the skinwalker: he would inject her with heroin to calm her down so she wouldn't keep him up at night). But your trying to get her off of the stuff cold turkey so you have two options to follow through every night: You can remain awake and put up with it but you'll wake up with severe status ailments (and you're the only one who knows how to operate firearms and she's completely dependent on you to protect her) or you can punch her in the face and knock her unconscious so you can get a good night's sleep but her withdrawal symptoms will be even worse and she'll start thinking that she's actually a serial killer because she wakes up every morning with blood on her hands (from the nosebleed she got when you punched her in the face).

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/thread

Because slavery is evil, and if you take any part of it, no matter what that part is, you're also evil. Also, meat is murder, and that's why anyone who eats a hamburger has blood on their hands.

I'm given to understand that slavery wasn't always a life-long/property situation, but nobody now knows or believes that. Especially since this is the land of the free, which means fuck obligations.

nice sources in that pic. its as valid as ghandi's old quote of bitches aint nothing but hoes and tricks.

Entirely subjective and dependent on the kind of suffering and benefit.

Slavery is an economic nightmare. Why hire work when I can just have slave do it. You have to pretty much have it engraved in your economy for it to work properly. Like calling your slaves employees.

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This.
Slavery was a problem in Rome as well, during the time of Caesar.
He made tax penalties and tax reliefs for those who would buy more slaves then citizens and viceversa.

would you accept a well written wiki article?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist)

in any case, prior to the Casor suit, slavery was closer to involuntary indentured servitude

Trolley Dilemma. Shit has been literally done to death and back, analyzed inside and out with 100+ different variations and payoffs for the same scenario.

Jump in front of the trolly with the people

we wuz slave ownahs and sheeit

The answer is multitrack drifting. Always multitrack drifting.

Is it even possible to make a game that perfectly explores all major outcomes for the world to the fullest?

VS

Only if you make a snarky one liner and tell the tied up people "nothing personal plebs"

You know the answer

If you're pulling the lever for eternity, then those people are tied there for eternity.
Better to let them die so at least one person can live their lives.

whats the downside?

What about going full retard edge to force a change that upheaves an obvious unjust system of servitude and dehumanization?

but if you kill them there's no guarantee you'll stay immortal

No, really. And she's essential for solving puzzles because she's a cyborg with a mechanical arm that she got when she was 7 years old. You see, her grandfather told her to fire a KS-23 (a Russian shotgun with a very large bore as its made from rejected anti-aircraft gun barrels) and, when she did, it broke her shoulder and caused severe bruising (she also went deaf) so her grandfather hastily hacked her now-useless arm off with a machete and grafted a robot arm onto her (don't worry, she got hearing implants too).

You now have even less to do than you did when the guys were alive.

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I guess it could of been more entertaining with an audience.

Maximum edge is always best option.

Edge for the greater good is always best.

You have a very good imagination and should consider going into writing.

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The game you're looking for is Fallout 1 OP. The whole game is choices like that, you can even choose to let the bad guys win if you think end up thinking their solution is better.

You punch her in the face every other night, easy.

But the game punishes you if you don't punch her in the face on a consistent basis by making your pimp hand really weak from lack of practice so you have to mash the spacebar a certain number of times in order to do enough pushups to get your strength back so you can punch her in the face with full force and get a good night's sleep.

Was I supposed to laugh?

It's because they're too retarded to be able to differentiate between good posts and bad posts, and would rather just delete everything than read.

You punch her in the face the first night. When you both wake up again you punch her in the face again and drag her ass. That way, she is awake when you are a sleep, and you are asleep when she is awake.

Got a great game for you OP.