The average consumer is a boot licker

Dubs confirm global stockholm syndrome.

putting something on sale is a very simple marketing tactic. if you, as a company, have enough money to keep putting things on sale, go for it. in the long run, more money is brought in. also the devs are probably making $5 a sale because Steam

But they are. You may personally disagree with them because you want cheaper games, but the reasoning is solid.
You're being intellectually dishonest. We both know that a lot of people hold off on buying PC games at release now because they know they'll go on sale later, often 50% off within the same year.
You're either strawmanning, or you just don't understand what they're saying, and this goes back to the first point of people just holding off and only buying your game when it's on sale, or buying keys that were sold at a heavily discounted price.
And then people only buy when it's on sale.
"Devs" can't even agree on whether or not piracy boosts or hurts sales, so that's a non-starter.
No, the only correct argument is that if the game at the current price is worth more to you than that amount of currency, you buy it. If it isn't, you either don't buy it, or you pirate it.

End of story.

No surprise here.

It's not about people waiting to buy the game, it's about people who didn't wait and feel bad for not waiting for it. But such a thing doesn't really exist, as evidenced by all the fucking sales in history in which people didn't get offended for it.
No, evidence says otherwise. A short sighted businessman thinks selling games at a discount will make them get less money for their product, but just like piracy, it's simply that most people won't really buy the game at full price, and those are sales that you simply won't ever get no matter how long the game remains at full price. When you sell a game for one fourth of the price, you sell twenty times as many copies in barely a week; you simply make more money. There is a reason most devs put their games on sale, and it's because it's beneficial for them (and for their customers).
Sure, people will wait for sales, but said sales will be much, much larger than anything you will get during the year.
If devs talk about their sales, chances are they will mention their sales improve a lot during sales. They wouldn't be doing it otherwise

just pirate it you fucking jew

sales != money

Selling 100 units of a game for 1 cent a piece is going to net you less money than selling 100 units of a game for 10 dollars a piece. Sales have the same problem as piracy, just in lesser effect - gamers who don't want to fess up full price will buy it on sale instead, and then the developer will likely never sell another unit to that buyer, because who buys the same digital game twice? Normally, sales lead to more profit, because people who would normally pirate or ignore the game buy it on impulse. But if you take sales too far you lose money, because sensible people notice and start buying discounted copies when they would have otherwise payed full price.

Whether or not a sale hurts a developer depends on the timing of the sale and the magnitude of the discount. If you're giving a 75% discount during a Christmas sale you're going to lose a whole lot more money than you would if you give a 25% discount during a random weekday, and so forth. This is all very complicated, even for people that have a background in consumer psychology and economy, and you're bound to slip at some point and make a mistake that costs you money. Likewise, just going with the default sale cycle that Steam uses is a Bad Idea. I don't blame the Factorio Dev for just avoiding the headache entirely, even if it means I have to pay full price for the game.

Which leads to people waiting to buy the next game on sale.
But it does, and pretending it doesn't when I know damn well you've seen all of the social media backlash on the subject is how women/niggers/children argue.
What evidence?
Because it will, if the product is already priced at a point where most people would value it at that current price more than they would value an equivalent amount of currency. I already went over this, I don't know why you're having a difficult time understanding it.
Again, they will when the price is already reasonable, and they're told up front that there won't be a sale.
Of course if a game frequently goes on sale, it's going to sell more during sales. But do you have data from an otherwise identical alternate reality where said game never went on sale, and the developers were up front about that to compare it to? No? Then why the fuck are you even making that argument?
-If DRM didn't increase sales, devs wouldn't do it!
-If always-online singleplayer games didn't increase sales, devs wouldn't do it!
-If inserting radical egalitarianism into games didn't increase sales, devs wouldn't do it!
-If leaving a game in a buggy/broken state didn't increase sales, devs wouldn't do it!
-If banning dissent from their forums didn't increase sales, devs wouldn't do it!
-If making an ass of themselves on twitter didn't increase sales, devs wouldn't do it!

I think you get my point.

I'm sorry, but unless you are literally making 99% discounts, sales == money. Both KSP devs and RoR devs have confirmed this.

A 50% discount will make you half as much money per sale, but you will probably sell more than double the copies you sell on any given day. Way more than double. Naturally, if these sales are too frequent, or too predictable, people will start to wait for sales and the discounted price will become the new average price, but in the end, you will always get more sales on average.

But you can't just assume sales are bad when even AAA games, the guys who make games entirely based on what the marketing teams tell them because they govern the whole development process to maximize benefits. If the guys who live pretty much to optimize income are doing it, chances are it's a smart thing to do. But they are basing their business model on the case of one single guy who got extremely lucky with his game, and that's dumb.

Using minecraft as a justification for never having a sale is the fucking dumbest thing ever, because for starters, minecraft started off at $5 for supporting notch, then notch got greedy and raised the price to compensate for more vacations.
Minecraft did have a sale if I remember correctly, but just ONCE, for valentines day I think, because notch finally got some pussy and felt "generous".
Minecraft never needed to go on sale, because children didn't know how cheap it used to be and never considered that maybe for as shit as it is, they should be demanding sales.
Let's not forget, minecraft's only officially released because they rushed a boss fight into it for a deadline, by all means that hunk of shit is not in any way finished, and the fact that now they have a successor which is just a straight port of the mobile edition to windows 10, there are TWO incomplete minecrafts.
Not that I think $20 is a bad price for an indie game, but factorio is STILL early access, will it ever LEAVE early access? These fucking early access games are almost on par with the patreon money laundering schemes.

They are considering increasing the price later on when the game gets more content. That said, it's still EA, but it's fairly good in its current state already to consider it a complete game

I can understand paying 20 buckaroos for a finished game with good quality standarts, but Factorio is neither.
Most other indie devs understand that their product can't compete and isn't interesting enough, so they price it ridiculously low during steam sales. Why would I buy an unfinished indie game for 20 bucks when I can buy multiple 2 year old AAA games for that money? People buy their games on change from other purchases and everyone is happy.
As I understand, Factorio is meant for hardcore autists, and that crowd will throw cash at anything. So who knows, it might work out for them.

That's pretty much happens when you game is in a humble bundle. Assuming the best case scenario where they're a fully self-published indie dev, they're still likely to be making pennies per "sale".
You're trying to compare two extremely different policies in a vacuum, when that just doesn't work in the real world with asymmetrical products like videogames. Also we've seen ridiculous shit like some faggot dev on twitter "confirmed" that after he started publicly shitting on trump, his sales went up. Would you recommend that as a valid sales strategy on that nigger's word?

They've sold ~735,000 copies at full price already, so they've "confirmed" that the strategy of pricing your game reasonably out of the box, and then being up front about the game not going on sale is clearly working for them. Why do you not give them the same credibility on the other matter as you give other developers?

gamers are morons who believe whatever narrative their favorite publishers feed them.

And you can't just assume sales are always good.
You even admit that they can be bad then they're too frequent, and that goes for the entire industry and not just a single title.
Because almost every game in recent years offers a substantial steam sale within a year of it's release, people expect that from every new release too and simply hold off on buying it.

However, if you have a niche product that won't age and can wait for the long tail, then not offering a sale can be a better strategy.
AAA games offer sales because they have to be much more competitive with each other and answer to short-term focused publishers and shareholders.

Because maybe you'll buy it for $20 when it's released. It sounds like at the moment you might be interested in buying it for $10 and then being disappointed in a low quality product that even the devs admit isn't finished.

I'm a fan of sales as well, but when a dev decides not to participate in a race to the bottom because they have confidence that people will buy it at full price now or when it's finished, that's perefectly reasonable.

OP is a faggot

Nobody is forcing you to Humble Bundle it. That said, I am sure devs still get money out of those, but it wouldn't be as effective as using Steam sales only.

Actually? Yeah. Shitting on Trump is the safest shit you could do nowadays. Most young normalfags are either apathetic or downright hate him. Shitting on Trump could be seen as being "based" and "trve", so chances are a small boost in sales is possible.

Because in this case, argumentum ad populum applies. How many devs have decided it is a good idea not to put your game on sale?

Look at KSP. It is slightly older than Factorio, but it has made one million sales more than Factorio. Sure, many were at a discount, but it was priced similarly to Factorio during sales, anyway. The target demographic is similar, too, so we can safely assume sales would boost Factorio's income a good amount.

Honestly, I don't mind them not going on sales. I mind them making up bullshit excuses to justify their dumb decision, and their assliking users praising them for it and even going as far as trying to convince them of raising the price.

Yes. Pennies on average per sale.
Spend less time on facebook.
It really doesn't, and I already addressed that at the bottom of this post:
KSP started selling in 2011 and has had countless sales. Factorio started taking pre-orders in 2013. 2 years is a massive lead, considering how fast Factorio has been selling.
They aren't similar at all.
It's like you haven't read a single thing I've posted this entire thread. I have zero interest in continuing this seemingly one-sided conversation. We're done here.

Fandoms are cults that worship the product's creators.
I remember years ago, I tried playing Galactic Civilizations 2 on Steam, and the Steam overlay didn't work. I checked the Stardock forums to see if there was a way to fix it, and everyone there was celebrating the fact that it didn't work and asking the devs to put viruses in the Steam version so that people would buy it directly from Stardock.

No, really, go talk to any 16-25 years old normalfag. They hate Trump. Old normalfags are another thing, but they usually aren't the target market for videogames.
DRM sadly does boost sales. The whole point of Denuvo is profiting off initial hype of a game: people want to play it as soon as possible, and the only way to do that is paying 60 dollars.
Literally the only people who care about this is Holla Forumsacks.
This is exactly the marketing team doing their job. Most bugs in AAA games are either rare or minor enough to make normalfags ignore them. Only people with high standards, also known as pretty much everyone who hasn't gamer's Stockhold syndrome (which is a small part of the market, to be honest), do complain about non-game breaking bugs. Solving these bugs is actually less cost effective than ignoring people who demand quality.
Comcept isn't a AAA developer, and they most certainly aren't professionals. It was an ameteurish mistake that only happened because only one guy in the team could have been considered a veteran, and he didn't give a fuck since he already got the money.
normalfags give zero fucks unless it's something really outrageous. Bioware is still doing well despite this.
2 years is a massive lead, but when it has had more than twice the sales at a higher price in just 33% more time, it is a HUGE difference.
Both are autism simulators. When you analyze target markets, you do it more or less like this, instead of comparing exact game mechanics.

Yeah, just back off. It's clear you are just suffering from developer Stockholm syndrome.

$20 is a great price. Especially for something not mired in DLC. Admire a Dev who sticks to their guns. They might make more money putting it at 25% off, but it's their choice to make, isn't it?

Factorio devs don't want the impulse buy market because impulse buyers aren't the kind that will enjoy factorio. They'll go on steam reviews and leave crap because they couldn't figure out how to put down a power pole. It's a useful casul gate for a complicated game.

>>>Holla Forums

I've seen this shit multiple times for multiple games and it makes me equally mad every time. I already had the games so it wouldn't affect me, but that someone is such a fucking boot licking goy cattle piece of shit pisses me the fuck off.

Even better these people enable Temkin doing shit like posting cringey Anti-Trump/Pro-Hillary billboards during the election (and I mean really fucking cringey, as in HOW DO YOU DO FELLOW NURDS xD) and getting scammed to the tune of 10k by sociopaths like Zoey Quinn.

Their sales seem pretty lack lustre especially with the media blitz that EA has tried to do with every game they've released since tortanic.

It just sounds like you're mad as fuck that you can't add it to your Steam collection without 2 hours of burger flipping. Pirate it, buy it, or shut up. What a stupid thing to bother making a thread about.

And yet Terraria is always on sale for $5, sold more than 20 million already and Redigit, who probably doesn't even know what to do with the money anymore, is making two sequels, porting the game to every single system out there (just announced the switch port) and is publishing a better version of starbound.

They're right about sales tho. Sales for software make no sense except for price cuts after release as it gets old. All sales do is say that that the latest sale price is the new official price and anyone who missed the sale will just wait for the next one. And Factorio isn't even officially out yet so they aren't going to cut the price.

Anyone bitching about "early access" or "indie game" is a fucking moron who has made the childish economic mistake of believing that people should get paid for EFFORT instead of VALUE. Just because Factorio took much less resources to produce than a AAA game doesn't mean that it should be priced significantly lower than one. And to be honest, it pretty much already IS, being $20 compared to $60.

If a game is worth more than another game, the price should be more; that's simple. If a AAA game is shit but an indie game is good, it should be priced the same. But noooo, just because it's not a AAA game they should be charging only 99 cents for it.

Fuck off.

Dev confirmed retard, Minecraft was technically on sale up until "release date" when it went to full-price. Even before "full release" there was a 2-for-1 sale in Beta during the weekend Notch got married. The marriage only lasted 1 year and 1 day. I don't know how he never saw that coming.
The console versions may or may not have had sales. I never cared about them so I've never checked.

...

At least she didn't get a billion.

You pay less for an early access game because you accept the risk of paying for a product that potentially will never be completed. Indie games should cost less because the realistic forecast of expenses is a lesser total. And this isn't just an issue about developer's right, but also customer expectation. Just because you're completely willing to roll over for a dev because you worship them and the ground they walk on, doesn't mean you get to chide other people for taking a more critical stance.

Magnet link for factorio v0.14.22 because fuck you.
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:6ad01f3c3a387fcdf5fb3b064fa49d67c7673a51&dn=Factorio+v0.14.22&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.leechers-paradise.org%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fzer0day.ch%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.coppersurfer.tk%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fpublic.popcorn-tracker.org%3A6969

(checked)
One of the great weaknesses of leftism is that it is antithetical to self-awareness, and therefore cannot avoid the Uncanny Valley.
(polite sage for off-topic)

Good catch. You can really see the Holla Forums mindset in OP, getting straight up angry at a company over a more than fair business model, because mommy doesn't give him an allowance and he can't sell enough TF2 hats to afford it.

No Man's Sky was "completed". You always take a risk when you make a purchase; that's why you watch gameplay footage and read reviews. You'd be a moron not to.

Still failing economics, I see.

I pirated this shit a long time ago before it was on steam, I wanted to play it on my thinkpad tablet but it ran like total dogshit so i uninstalled

You do know that same guy who made the video made the trump one right? That guy isn't actually left leaning, he's just a trippy dood.

Not true. A buddy of mine just bought Minecraft on sale for his little brother. I'm not sure what console it was on.

oh no, super deluxe is pretty far left.

PLEASE NO.

you haven't seen their shit? They made that retarded punch nazis game. They're pretty pozzed.

Why would you do this to me.
There is nothing wrong with being a Nazi
The sooner people realize it's not about "muh white power" and more about people taking care of their own, in their own country, the better

Aren't devs/publishers makeing significantlly more money during sales then over the course of the non-sale time?
I remember an interview with some indie dev who said that sales are the most lucrative time for them compared to the rest.

It's why it tickles my prostate when people post pictures of Holla Forums appearances in real life and it's a bunch of spics and niggers and they think they have a point when they point out how Holla Forums isn't even white

like nigger, that's the point

Fuck! At least you know as much.
Mexican Hitler when
We already have men named Adolfo.

Meanwhile, everyone else hates Max Temkin for acting like a complete jackass.

I got it on sale in Alpha

A product is worth what people will pay for it, selling it for less isn't business - that's charity.

I see no excuse for threads like this, if the game is shit then why go ballistic, if you don't want to pay then why not pirate? OP sperging out over stupid shit

Yes, putting a game on sale during early access or on release after early access is an insult to everyone who paid full price for a a buggy proof of concept. However, those people deserve every insult they get, and also that's different from saying "no sales EVER".

Omg you are such a bitch OP, Eat a Dick.
no one is forcing you to buy it.

and even if the devs are located in the czechja repuclic.Game Devs are expensive. So somebody has to pay them.
And then Steam will take its Cut.

Stop crying and pirate it.
Its their walled Garden and they dont have to let you play online.

At the End of the Day, Supply and Demand will settle the Price.

steamcharts.com/app/427520

Honestly i would have never tested it in the first place, if I knew it was in Early Acces.
And yes it is a Good Game.

I'm pretty sure I got mine on sale too for like 15€. And I remember them having Valentine's Day sales too.

The definition of "completed" is really muddy these days. Most people think to complete a game you just have to add more and more bullshit indefinitely and then arbitrarily announce your 1.0 eventually.

By most any standards, Factorio already is a complete game. Sure they could add more, and they are, but they could just as well say it's done at this point and call it a day.

I think if a dev doesn't want put the game on sale that's alright, but you are right that the users should be protesting, not sucking their fucking dicks. Dear God.

Missed the point entirely. Probably has an extra chromosome.

What is the point, then? Why should anyone be upset that a dev had decided against doing sales and is instead just leaving it at a steady pricepoint so they can focus on development instead of marketing?

Humble hasn't started a race to the bottom.

You're fucking dense. Read his post. Or read mine.
The point is that users shouldn't praise the devs for that decision. Users in general should strive for consumer friendly strategies, like being against DRM, DLC and early access, and for cheaper games. If more users start praising the devs for selling the games expensive, then we'll get more expensive games, just like we started getting DLC and other anti-consumer tactics because users were fine with it.
Again, I repeat: from the point of view of the dev, that's fine. He has the right to sell the game at any price he wants.
It's just baffling that users take it up the ass and actually praise that decision.

LOOK AT MY BOY
HE PLACED THE THING
IT MOVES THING
WHOA

WEW

A game for smart gamers such as yourself am I rite fellow \V\rother- I mean |v|irgin.

DF? what the fuck is that shit sounds like medicine lmao xDDDDDD^

>Meanwhile this shit stood at $20 $19.99 for 4 years of early access

Tell me more about how copying trainsores tycoon deluxe features and making blogposts about hiring artists is development.

I've seen noname modders shit out more gameplay content 4FREE than what these fucks had to offer in a year with 735000 sales worth of funding.

Factorio has no DLC or plans for DLC. Mods are free and will remain so.
Factorio is the best example of early access, a game that's complete that is being fine-tuned with updates still.
Devs are already selling it well below the "New Game" price.

There's more to things that calling out shitty microtransaction engine developers. We should recognize devs that are consumer friendly and endorse them.

Factorio devs have done infinitely more good than harm.

I understand you're really focused on defending them and I'm fine with that. I just wish you could read and had an IQ in the 3 digits so you didn't bring it up when nobody fucking talked about it. I said
I have exactly zero criticism against the devs. My criticism, and OP's, and the rest the thread's, is against the people who think that they shouldn't push for games to be cheaper.

I didn't talk about Factorio DLC.
I didn't talk about Factorio early access. Those were just examples.

Regardless of whether the devs are justified in pricing the games however they want (I repeat, they are), people should always be pushing for games to be cheaper. This keeps the balance right and makes it so games' prices don't skyrocket. If games are too cheap then all we get is low budget indie shit, if prices are too high then it becomes a niche and nobody buys them.
Please next time you're in an argument try to read what other people are saying instead of just saying what you want to say.

Early Humble Bundle was all DRM free. Now they're all steam only with few exceptions. There was even one where everything required fucking Uplay.

I'd agree with you that they shouldn't be praised for not putting it on sale, but they also shouldn't be criticized solely on that. You could criticize the $20 price tag, but it's not jewy to not give you a deal just because it's a holiday or some shit. If anything temporary sales are a jewish tactic that encourage people to buy things on instinct thinking they need to buy it then and there or they're losing out rather than letting them buy it if and when they want to.

I didn't. Neither did OP and neither did most of the thread.

No, that's don't starve you cuck.

Factorio is the retarded child the circus keeps milking instead of giving it the sweet release of death.

blogposts and trainsores shit great updates now where's the fucking meaningful gameplay that stops it from being yet another bland EA game that eurocucks play after they get home from work at a warehouse.

Where are those?

if by fueling your buyer's remorse they're doing good then they're fucking triple-A film capeshit stars.

Why does every single fuck on the internet throws that word around lightly? The world has little people, it's mostly tasteless and submissive NPC/film extras that don't know shit about anything and would happily slave away in order to get the first thing that (((someone))) who writes ads for a living tosses in front of them. Same shitters that have no opinion of their own and are unable to display higher brain functions such as the attention-whoring cucks that pay $200 to have their name in an early access video game (rimworld/factorio same shit scheme).

>the average demanding price of indie games hasn't dropped from $20 to

This happened just now, while talking with a friend about my releasing muh game in Greenlight

Kike.

If you have any alternative, you have my complete attention.

...

Release it somewhere else, or don't charge for people to play it when you yourself are against the system you are using to charge people to play it.

Sales are great because more people will buy so more people are playing and more people likely to buy it, maybe at full price if they don't want to wait for a sale.

Jesus Shlomo clutch your shekelpurse a little tighter. Factorio is a solid game, if you don't want to pay 20 bucks for it just pirate it.

The alternative is that you kill yourself, Steam-enabling faggot.

It's not a game. It's a sandbox. A toy. A plaything.

You are part of the problem user.

>not enjoying TECHNOLOGY

You're using it to enjoy your time just the same.

Both minecraft and dwarf fortress are superior autism bait.

I'm making the point that some early access games are good, as minecraft has turned to shit and DF is freeware in perpetual beta they aren't good examples.

I think it is mostly because people don't want to regret giving their money to a dick, so they perform the necessary mental gymnastics to justify the dev's retardation.

This actually reminds me of the attitude the dev for The Castle Doctrine had. Basically, when the game was "finished" the game went from $5 to around $15.99. Not only did the dev say that there will never be a sale, but the price will actually increase over time. Everything was based on mineracft's business model apparently, despite Mojang actually having some good justification for increasing the price as the game is developed more. The community was actually pissed at the dev for saying this shit though.

Not using sales is a valid decision and isn't worth social scrutiny in the way you're implying.
What it does mean is that customers not interested in the product at full price that might otherwise buy it (like me) will not do so and they're losing a market in that manner.
Is it economically harmful for them? Yeah, probably. I'm not even sure, they'd know better since it's their game. They'll see the income dry up and change their policy. Or they wont.
Let's see what the devs are saying and compare it with what you are pretending they're saying,
They do not want to encourage people to value their product lower than they value it themselves. They're independent developers and confident that the quality of work they produced is worth what they set it at.
Is it? Fuck if I know, fuck if they know, they are acting in pride and confidence. They could be wrong, they could be losing profit, but they are to a large extent maintaining their personal belief within their product.
There is nothing unreasonable about this, in actuality, especially since avid consumers have the option to not only not buy, but to pirate, and find for themselves whether or not it's worth the asking price.
This is a market argument and it's garbage. It takes a tiny binary system and extrapolates it to an entire economy. This, however,
Is valid. He's saying that by having a clear and reasonable cost, people can budget accordingly, and make a real decision whether or not they want Factorio.
He does not want to support a business model that he does not like, personally. Adding things to favorite lists/carts or whatever the fuck and stalling for sales.
In the end, though, it's because they have not been punished for their "malpractice". Others do not feel so emotionally attached to sales, or whatever, and value the product. They're buying, the company is afloat, pride and price intact.
I have no issue with the OP since it's talking about the response to it (fanboys cocksucking), but you are actually wrong in your statement that
when it simply doesn't hinge on a purely profit-motivated plan. There are externals present.

So let me see if I got this right:
You found a good game. And you think a good game is worth LESS than 20 bucks.
If you feel that insulted, just pirate the damn thing. 20 bucks is the right price for a good game. I'd pay 30 for something outstanding and 10 for something meh.

I pirated it. :)

No, AAA games are priced for maximum profit in the first 3 months, then put on sale to extend the profit because nobody past the initial release will buy it at deliberately jacked up prices. They're pretty upfront about this reasoning, provided you don't call them faggots when asking their marketers in Q&As.

What the hell are you guys talking about? This game is on sale right now for 100% off on torrenting sites around the web!

Are these guys retarded?