Was Dagoth Ur in the right?

He was the real hero

Seems to me like he overreacted a bit.

am trying to say that disliking Morrowind because Oblivion and Skyrim had a doomsday scenario is retarded because you can't blame the game for it's successors.
You state that Morrowind story is gay shit because of Oblivion and Skyrim had the same thing.

If Oblivion or Skyrim had a Different plot would you like Morrowind more? and if so why does a successor of a game devalue something that came before it.

Obvious bait, but this correction needs to be done.

You're not the "Chosen One" in Skyrim. You were just a prisoner who happened to be in a cell with the secret passage. Afterwards you're just free to do whatever the fuck you want. ou can do the main quest and give the Emperor's amulet to the Chosen One and then dick off afterwards, but you stick around to the end and you get to see the chosen one sacrifice himself at the end, but then you're allowed to dick-off afterwards.

He was right, but just like the Tribunal he had to be taken out back behind the shed by the Third Era since he was being batshit insane with his plans for Morrowind.

*Oblivion, you mean with the whole Amulet of Kings main quest. Skyrim was the one that really sucked the player's dick with its hero worship at every opportunity.

They murdered Nerevar. Dagoth Ur was just being honourable and doing as he was commanded. But tapping into the heart corrupted him eventually.

Thanks for the fix, I should get some more sleep. Fucking long ass week.

Yes, his actions against the tribunal were in the right, but his actions on nirn and their effects were….problematic. The Tribunal absolutely deserved to get their shit kicked in after everything. I mean just considering some of the shit they did
The Tribunal are largely pieces of shit that made the Dunmers lives so much worse in the end. Theye interesting characters but shitty people and deserved what they got. Frankly, I hope Vivec gets his nuts crushed in the end after everything he's done. He shouldnt be able to get away with Chim after all his shit.

As says, Morrowind's "chosen one" is a manufactured messiah, unlike those in Oblivion and especially Skyrim. In that way it's an interesting subversion of the "chosen one" narrative. It's possible the Nerevarine truly is the reincarnation of Indoril Nerevar, but it's just as likely that he's not a genuine reincarnation, but still meets the criteria of the prophecy.

Literally a shit.

Was the Oblivion protagonist really a chosen one? The emperor certainly thought so but it's not like he had super powers. He isn't even the one to kill the big bad.

Martin was the chosen one not the MC. He even sacrifices himself at the end and becomes a god dragon

Vivec himself even admits as much when you talk to him. Dagoth was one of Nerevar's closest friends and advisors, and he was explicitly told to guard the tools and not let anyone use it.
Vivec and friends got greedy, stabbed Nerevar in the back, cut his face and feet off and then went to go steal the power of the Heart of Lorkhan after Sotha revealed that he knew how to.
Once they had their power Dagoth told them to fuck off and die for their betrayal, and was then forced to use the power of the Heart himself to stand a chance against them. He drove them off, but had to rest in order to recover.
The Tribunal wet their collective panties and so they put up the Ghostfence.
The Nerevarine was justified in killing Dagoth though, because by that time Dagoth (and Almalexia and probably Sotha Sil for that matter) had gone mad from the power

The Nerevarine is just whoever is capable of fulfilling the prophecies. They aren't guarded by it, and this is proven in game by the fact that you can meet a bunch of other attempted Nerevarines who died at various stages of fulfilling the prophecy. If the prophecy provided some kind of cosmic protection then the first person to start on the path would have succeeded.
The main character wasn't the chosen one in Oblivion either, that was Martin Septim. You get the Amulet of Kings and the other necessary stuff for him, but at the end of it you're just a Hero, of which there are plenty, Martin Septim mantles Akatosh to defeat Mehrunes Dagon.
You're correct about Skyrim though, since the Dragonborn is specifically gifted with powers nobody else has or can achieve (apart from Miraak)

Dagoth Ur's fight against the tribunal and those living peaceful lives vanderfall was moot once the neraverrane existed. He had to be killed.

(checked)
Wasn't that Sheogorath?

Dragonborns were uncommon, the main character of Skyrim was specifically the last dragonborn. I think the emperor that ascended to godhood was one. The main character of Oblivion also became a chosen one in the two DLCs where he somehow turned out to be an incarnation of Pelenial, and the main character gets chosen by Sheogorah to serve as his replacement while he becomes the chaos god of order. Granted, the main character earned becoming the chosen in Shivering Isles.

Yes. Sheogorath convinced a meteor to fall, and Vivec held it in place with his power. Semantics come in with how he handled it, though, since he chose to leave it floating there as a reminder of his power, instead of removing it, or forcing it to land with much less force. The end result of his action is it hitting anyway, with all the energy of when it was first falling.

He was infected with disease that caused him to lose his mind. He had good intentions but he end up insane. What was his plan? Infect everyone with super aids and kill every outsider? Wait until everyone is retarded and live happily ever after?

Dragonborns are just blessed with the blood of Akatosh. Tiber Septim was Dragonborn, as was the rest of his lineage, all the way up to Martin Septim, which is why he was able to mantle Akatosh in the first place, and why he was required after the Dragonfires went out. However, after his death and the mantling of Akatosh no more Dragonborns were being created. I don't know what the lore is around how the Last Dragonborn came to be.
Was the Hero of Kvatch an incarnation of Pelinal? I thought he just met his ghost and killed Umaril the Unfeathered for him.
As for the Shivering Isles, he wasn't the replacement exactly, he and Sheogorath became one entity through mantling. Although I think it's accepted that Sheogorath planned that, and it's why he sends you to go torture people and do various things that he would, with the end result being the MC and Sheogorath become indistinguishable.
I do remember some lines about Vivec demanding that the people love him or he would lose his power, but I'm not sure if that was just a threat, or if he needed the people's worship to maintain or expand his power (in the same way that the other divines and daedra do).

His plan was to make every true Dunmer into immortal demi-gods like the Ash Vampires, through infecting them with corprus and then controlling how that infection spread. The Ash Vampires are mostly normal guys, apart from being bigger than regular Dunmer and having third eyes.

In Oblivion, you are literally chosen by the king to take the amulet and start the main quest. Only the player character is int the right time and place to do this. In Morrowind, in contrast, you could take the place of any NPC and continue along the same path as the player character would and complete the main quest. Thats the difference.

That sounds right. I don't remember it very well since I didn't much care for it. It felt pretty weak compared to what it could have been. Especially the hilarity of meeting a elf hating crusader as an elf after you finish his business for him. Even as a dunmer fan, I admit he did nothing wrong.

That is true, but the entire reason for that to happen was always that Sheogorath was becoming the god that was consumed to make him, and so the MC gets consumed to become a new Sheogorath in order to stop that god from fucking up Sheogorath's realm.

I do not remember any belief mechanics in ES, but I don't know the lore quite that well.

You're chosen because Uriel happens to show up in your cell and recognise you from a prophetic dream. But Uriel's prophetic dreams were also the basis for him sending the would-be Nerevarine to Morrowind to meet with Caius.
Uriel could have misinterpreted his dreams on both counts, and maybe the Nerevarine would have come along later, and the prisoner in Oblivion would have run off at the first chance he got, or actually been in the next cell over. But they were both in the right place at the right time. And they were capable enough to fulfil the role given to them.

I think the most well known example is Talos. The reason the Altmer want to ban his worship is to weaken him. The explanation, as far as I know, is that if nobody worships him or recognises him as a god he ceases to be able to influence them or the world.
I don't think it applies in the same way to Aedra or Daedra.

IIRC fucking Tiber Septim tells you that he saw you in his dreams and that you're destined for great things

I am pretty sure it was long conspiracy and not just "dreams".

They all liars. Half of prophesies was manufactured, half was tailored by secret service to suit empire needs. And daedric gods love to meddle in human affairs. We talking about setting with wizards in it. Making a dream would be easy. Especially to someone who was kidnapped by evil wizard before.
As in old anecdote where old jew always begged god for a great fortune but never bought a lottery ticket. Empire might understand that you need someone to fit a profile for a prophesy, help him out here and there and gods will help him with their agenda. Everyone suitable to be a chosen one will be considered a chosen one.
Like in dune jew-bitches order manufacture beliefs to suit their needs.
And in oblivion you are not the chosen one, you are his delivery boy.

Due to the effects of Dragon Break both versions of the story happened. Both Dagoth Ur and the tribunal are loyal and traitors.
No, Dagoth Ur wasn't in the right. He was instructed to guide the tools, not use them. In case of his victory everyone in Morrowind and beyond would become mindless ash slaves, tribunal would lose power and meteorite would drop and cause the eruption of red mountain. Otherwise the same shit happens, only people aren't ash slaves.
Sleepers are a good example of how Dagoth Ur's will enslaves the Dunmer worse than Empire ever could.

Also, why the fuck did Dagoth Ur keep Keening and Sunder with some fucking ash vampires if he could just get them himself? He really wants the tools when you come to him, and he knows you can't kill him without the tools.

What Dragon Break? The Tribunal are traitors, there's no question about it. Vivec tried to retcon history so that he and the Tribunal were always gods, but that doesn't change the fact that they killed Nerevar. Vivec explicitly says that he and the Tribunal did this, so I don't know where you're getting them being loyal from.
He was instructed to guard the tools against anyone, and was forced to fight off the Tribunal when they tried to take the power. He took it for himself in order to stop them, as a necessary evil, and was then corrupted by it.
The Ash Vampires are extensions of Dagoth himself, they're literally made of him. It's perfectly reasonable for him to have them split up so that they're harder for someone else to get. He only asks for them because the Nerevarine took them.

Where the fuck does he state it? Here, have a screenshot where he outright denies it and says it's a myth.

Is there a story to this image?

It's fetish porn user, there is no story. Sleepymaid just likes hypnosis.

I misremembered then. His denial means nothing though, he rewrote history to go from being a street urchin to always having been a god, but it's too much to believe he would lie about killing Nerevar?
Even if he is telling the truth, you're still wrong about them being loyal in any telling of the story, if they were truly loyal they would have never used the Heart. What justification is there for that besides a hunger for power?
Also, one of the stories he mentions is Alandro-Sul's account, which does say that he and the Tribunal murdered Nerevar. And he leaves it for you to decide which you believe. He doesn't create the strongest foundation to trust what he says.

Dagoth Ur used the tools even before Nerevar's death, and got a connection to the Heart in him. That's how he survived. Dagoth Ur also claims that Nerevar "repaid him with death", so Nerevar punished Dagoth Ur for his betrayal.
And yes, afterwards the Tribunal used the tools and Vivec himself calls it betrayal. But they didn't kill Nerevar for them and used the tools sparingly, until Alma went insane.

Oh, like every single archetypical epic story ever written since the middle ages?

It's "sneak" through the door. Fucking fix your shit.

Again, this all depends on which account you believe. I'm more inclined to trust Alandro Sul. Vivec would be stupid to tell the Nerevarine "yes, we killed Nerevar and stole the power of the Heart, now go kill Dagoth for us." He's also arrogant and manipulative, demands love and worship from his people with the threat of destroying them by releasing Baar Dau, persecutes dissident priests and previous Nerevarines. The only reason he even deigns to speak to you is because you managed to stay alive despite the efforts of the Temple. He isn't trustworthy.
The Tribunal in Sul's account had already had the idea to use the Heart before they discovered Dagoth had tapped its power.
He at least has more self-awareness and regret than Almalexia, but admitting to it is a far cry from paying for it.
Again, it's all up to which account you believe. It doesn't matter how often they used the tools, a betrayal is a betrayal. And most of the reason they didn't use them is because they couldn't, thanks to Dagoth and his Ash monsters.
In my mind, Dagoth is more justified using the Heart to stop the Tribunal than the Tribunal is for just wanting to be gods.

Yes.
Then he went mad and used dumb tactics to try to destroy the Tribunal.
The only thing he did right after the betrayal was somehow taking Keening and Sunder.

My main problem is that we never will know what Dagoth was like before the Heart. I think its pretty obvious the Heart's power corrupt it's user.
I image it like hard drugs. Without it you go Almalexia, with too much you go Dagoth Ur.

Plus it doesn't help how much info we have from different perspectives.
The Temple says Dagoth was a snake like character (or opportunistic). Most of the historic references confirm this.
Other sources show that he was bro with Lord Nerevar, and did everything to take revenge on the race and their false gods who betrayed his friend.

Could be that, he was a good guy but the heart fucked him up? I mean his servants and minions are just looks like they are between constant pain and madness. Why would a good guy do such a thing?

The power of the heart corrupts everyone who uses it. Vivec probably avoided most of the negative side effects because he was able to understand the walking ways and CHIM, and has he says himself he "wore his divinity lightly". On the other hand, Almalexia established herself as the Mother of Morrowind, and succumbed more easily to the corruption, and was then further affected when the power was cut off. Sotha Sil was probably somewhere in between, slightly mad but focused too much on his clockwork city to be as affected as Alma when the Heart stopped feeding him power.
As for Dagoth, he was a very good friend of Nerevar's, but the temptation of the Heart was too much. Given his proximity and continual use, he deteriorated much faster than the Tribunal.
Pretty much the only close companion of Nerevar who made it out of the situation okay was Alandro-Sul, who went to go live with Ashlanders, and probably died wishing he could have prevented Nerevar's death, and the rise of the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur.
It's kind of sad that all of Nerevar's close friends were all ruined by the Heart.

You mean by the government? And that a number of people were chosen before you, all prophesied to stop the doomsday scenario, who all died having failed to do so?

First time entering that place and meeting all the ghosts was a pretty powerful moment

every god damn TES game is HUR DUR YOU ARE LE CHOSEN ONE TO END THIS CRISIS

I can't help but notice the irony when people tell others they weren't paying attention to the story enough to realize the 'Nerevarine wasn't Nerevar.'

The Nerevarine literally puts on a ring designed to immediately kill anyone who is not Nerevar. Dagoth Ur, Vivec, Almalexia, Azura, they all call you Nerevar. Sure there is room for doubt, but that's the fucking point.

It's almost like the developers wanted to give the player the choice like they actually do once you meet Dagoth. Like its supposed to be impossible for one to truly prove or disprove you are Nerevar reborn.
Maybe, just maybe, they were trying to say that, in the end, it never really fucking mattered. That it was always just a matter of faith.

I fucking hate it when lore-illiterate people tag their mod as "lore friendly", then pull shit like that.

It's a deconstruction of the "chosen one" scenario. You might be the chosen one, you might be the Neravarine, but you might also just be Azura's puppet because she realized you fit a couple of the signs of her prophecy and back you to fuck up the people she swore revenge on. The whole point of Morrowind is that you have to work your way to being the so-called Neravarine, but even then almost no one believes you're the chosen one because everyone, including the houses and Ashlanders doubt your ascension because there's been so many before you that also fit similar trappings of Azura's prophecy.

It's possible that Azura made it so the PC could wear it because he made it further than any of the previous Incarnates. None of the failed Incarnates ever state that they tried wearing the Moon-and-Star, so as far as we know the PC is the only person aside from Nerevar to wield it.

Wrong, in Morrowind its never made clear you're the hero or some special fuck. In fact you can fuck everything up if you want to.

Personally I think Vivec is full of shit. The reason why he wasnt "affected" is because he was always a piece of shit. Nerevar would have been better off leaving him to die on the streets tbh. I mean, he claims hes light on his divinity but he actually rewrites history so that he was always a god and nerevar more his faithful follower. He's just a twofaced asshole.

You should read my post again

Honestly, its been awhile, but I think that whole thing is kind of fucked from the get go because of the bit about MCs in the ES games having the ability to freely affect the world, and not adhere to the destiny written out in the Elder Scrolls. So even if you weren't that particular chosen one, the MC was still somehow chosen to become something greater.

Nothing worse than narrative hipsters who hate the "chosen one" archetype. They hate being reminded how pathetic and ineffective they are in real life, so they prefer a "real person" (broken piece of shit) in their fictional stories. Usually are pseudointellectual blowhards as well.

funny how you mention that because only retarded pseduintellectual egomaniacs actually like the MUH CHOSEN ONE over proper storyline.

I'm retarded, what exactly are you trying to say? It seems like you're trying to prove two points at once.

See how you framed it as an aspect of ego and not the representation of suprahuman ideals manifested through the form of divine myth and legend. Self-absorbed modernism 101.

This game sucks.

My point is that the entire thing is purposefully left vague and it's entirely up to the players own choice whether or not they are Nerevar reborn, and even then, all the characters in-game end up considering you to be the incarnate regardless, so whether or not you were actually Nerevar reborn doesn't really matter anyways.

I mentioned Moon-and-Star because its clear notion to where the Nerevarine definitely isn't Nerevar line of thought can hardly be considered a solid truth.

That's wrong, he could the Nerevar reborn or not. No definite proof either way.

nice projecting

Hell, even Azura acknowledges this when there are so many "false incarnates" in the Cavern of the Incarnate. There are a lot of people who Mantled Nerevar, but very few actually managed to do anything with it, through trial and error, eventually one was bound to succeed.

I made a mod with all of my previous characters there as well, just for the sake of remembering how they died

So Discworld being a realm of Oblivion is canon then? Probably Sheogorath's?

Doesn't Azura decide who the true Nerevarine is? That would mean it's affectively her choice who can and can't wear the ring.

You can just say "I don't get it" or simply think about it for a while, man. Accepting that you don't know everything when you are young is OK, while thinking everything old is just shit that was made up because those shitty people didn't know any better isn't how you will grow into a better person.

Let's make a step futher!
What if the Heart lure the dwemer into their destine? What if removing the dwemer race was the plan along and not make a mechanic god?

In that case, it's possible Azura simply made the Moon-and-Star wearable by your PC because you made it the furthest of the Incarnates. After all, none of the ghosts in Azura's cave ever mentioning wearing the ring.

I'd put that entirely within the realm of possibility. Lorkhan was the father of Man, and Elves are the descendants of those who fired his heart into the sea above a dormant volcano.

For the love of god, user. I'm not implying that Moon-and-Star is absolute proof the Nerevarine is Nerevar. I'm mentioning it because its something someone can easily hold up as a reason to believe they are Nerevar.
There is absolutely nothing in the game that proves you aren't Nerevar, just as there is no concrete proof that you are.

I really don't know how to make this any clearer.

It's okay, man. I've just never met someone who is so decidedly neutral on the whole "Nerevarine or not?" argument.

Someone called for the Tribunal?

Does it really matter whether they are or not?
Different user here, but I never thought it mattered whether you were the Nerevarine or not so long as you fit the mould.

...

There is a theory that they intentionally disappeared and became the skin of Numidium, so they could all effectively live forever as a manufactured-god. I don't know if that holds water within canon lore though.
Lorkhan is known as the Trickster, so it isn't too hard to believe that he fooled the Dwemer into destroying themselves, and the fact that Yagrum survived because he was in another realm would lend some credence to that, since Lorkhan wouldn't be able to exert his power anywhere besides Mundus.

considering that next TES game will deal with Tamriel apocalypse the Dwemer issue will never be resolved

TES VI: Hammerfell
Where the player as an incarnation of the HoonDing makes way for a soft reboot.

Nah they hinted that it will involve almost all major zones and races/factions within Tamriel, some even said there will be new features like house building where you can upgrade it to bigger stuff like town and even city buildings, it will prob use Fallout 4 mechanic (they said house building was added in Fallout 4 as experiment to see how would players react and if feedback is positive they will add it to TES6)

Judging from that info + the official response by Peter Hines that TES 6 will use a new engine my guess is TES6 will deal with some huge scale Daedra invasion of Tamriel where Player Character will reawaken/leave prison to an already wrecked world and start a rebellion against invaders while rebuilding towns/cities.

Are you getting this from anywhere other than Kirkbride's work? Because I can see Bethesda stretching out the war with the Dominion for a few more games if not outright skipping any doomsday scenario for the rest of the TES series.

Again?

from what i have seen Bethesda doesnt want to release Skyrim rehash every 3 years set simply in different region, they want next TES game to be world breaking and end Tamriel as we know it.

Now this is my opinion, my guess is after they break Tamriel in TES6 with all that fuss they will restart the TES series while setting the storyline in the past like Chim chronicles, Ayleid Kingdoms etc since ESO already popularized that. Resetting the TES series and putting the action in First Era imo is a good idea since it can explore the old lore and even expand it in some parts.

You mean "fix all those nasty transcription errors".

What are the sources for that? Surely even Bethesda isn't so unoriginal they would use "daedric invasion" for a third time?

Yeah, they just want to re-release Skyrim every three years.
You really think Bethesda will do a good job expanding on the lore though? Setting a game in the First Era would be cool, but I wouldn't trust Todd or Pete Hines, or Schick, to not just simplify and retcon everything for the casual audience. They've already done it with TESO.

polishing some lore to make it consistent wouldnt be a bad idea

That is my guess since i cannot think of any other force capable enough to ravage the entire planet and end Tamriel

But its very easy to expand the lore, you already have events set in those times all Bethesda needs to do is put Player Character to witness it and branch out some side-storylines.

TESO has flaws but lore of TESO is pretty decent and even alliances/factions are explained properly instead of just random shoehorning like WoW did after WC3 where they were literally reviving old WC3 chars just so they could make some cheesy appearance in a raid/zone.

"Cyrodiil is a jungle, because we don't want to just be generic." Sounds good
"Oh, no wait, now it's generic high-fantasy land, but we can explain it because Talos ascended to godhood and changed it." Fair enough
"Actually it's always been high-fantasy land and the reason it was described differently is because someone wrote it down wrong."
Yeah, they really polished that to a sheen.
But where are you getting that from? What's the source that the next game will involve a world-ending event?
It's also easy to make it as simple and boring as possible. It isn't as simple as putting the player into those events, they have to be fleshed out into full stories, and given Bethesda's track record with their most recent games I very much doubt they would do it any justice.
No, it isn't. You have Cyrodiil as a generic high fantasy land being explained away with transcription error bullshit.
You have an Imperial style thatched-roof building in Seyda Neen which somehow stands for another 700 years until the time of Morrowind because "veterans will want to see it."
You have inaccuracies and inconsistency all throughout the writing.
Just being "decent" doesn't mean shit, and accepting things because they're decent or just okay is why games keep getting shittier.

I knew you would nitpick with Cyrodil jungle, i wonder how can people implement "Infinite jungle" Cyrodil into the game, make constant loops of jungle expanding until it covers entire Tamriel?

they said it at E3 event and they also announced they will start officially working on TES6 after they finish everything about Fallout 4, date is set to 2017 as starting point.

I have no problem with complex lore but current state of old TES lore is a huge mess with certain characters appearing in 3 different timelines which are atleast 100 years apart and some lore entries are contradicting themselves like how Ayleid managed to rule for extra 2 centuries after their empire was completelly destroyed.

If you think "infinite jungle" is good writting you are either insane or just being a contrarian.

Can you name 5 of them without nitpicking about shitty stuff like Skooma/Moon Sugar whining?

The hilarious part in this ESO hating mess is how Skyrim (STEP FROM COMPLEX LORE INTO SHITTY GENERIC HIGH FANTASY) wrecked TES lore 10 times more than ESO yet people like you claim ESO is at fault here while Skyrim is ok simply because you can pirate one and you cannot pirate the other.

You're so full of shit, you need a plumber to get out of bed in the morning.

What are you going on about?
Cyrodiil isn't infinite, it isn't all of Tamriel. The jungle stops where it meets mountains and snow to the north, volcanic mountains to the east, desert to the south and west and probably joins Valenwood partially to the south.
Yeah, because it's the most glaringly obvious example of poorly retconned lore.
Elves routinely live for hundreds of years. Necromancy and magic can keep men alive for hundreds of years. There's been numerous dragon-breaks which have messed with the timelines over the course of the games and in the lore. This is exactly the kind of casual simplification I'm talking about. You say "I have no problem with complex lore" but can't wrap your head around multiple timelines occurring.
You got a source for that? They got wiped out by Pelinal and Alessia, and maybe some of them survived and fled, but they didn't rule shit.
I gave you two explicit examples of lore being re-written to cater to casuals, and you gave me "some people lived for a long time" and bullshit about the Ayleids. I would hardly call that a "huge mess".
I'm not playing this game with you.
Again, you're just carrying on and projecting about nothing. When did I say Skyrim was okay? I've played it, I didn't think it was very good. I don't have any desire to play ESO and it has nothing to do with not being able to pirate it.
Yeah man, I'm sure you're laughing your head off about this.

nice argument you have there, now go back to jerking off to your sex mods in Skyrim.

Cyrodil was described as "infinite jungle", you nitpick about the transcription error they used to fix that stupid description.

The fuck are you saying you are ok with SciFi bullshit being added into fantasy genre instead of letting Bethesda clean up some old lore ?

TESwiki is source, nothing is stopping you from reading it, Ayledis are mentioned as still rulling despite being ruined.

because you are being a contrarian faggot (as evident with le reaction image.jpeg) who will argue over bullshit to say Skyrim is good while ESO is bad.

Let me guess, you pirated Skyrim and you have no desire to play ESO because of its "lore rape" and not because you are a typical Skyrim piratefag who will trashmouth anything he cannot get for free?

Actually i am laughing because you pathetic fags are predictable and easy to read, i even knew you would nitpick about Cyrodil jungle change before the Cyrodil was even mentioned in ESO subject.

...

I miss subtle bait

Nicely done

Like i said you are full of shit and a contrarian, you cannot name 5 retcons ESO did you claim were so repulsive you didnt want to pick up the game.

…but why?

You apparently don't pay much attention.

t. kirkbride

What exactly were the walking ways again? Weren't they a way to achieve chim?

Well I mean, I haven't played ESO as in depth as some but everything involving Molag Bal's invasion would've definitely been documented by at least a handful of historians. Also the factions are fucking retarded. Sure, the Dominion is fine and all. Whatever. But both Ebonheart and Daggerfall are flat out stupid. When this shit ended did they just round up all the orcs and say "Okay, your civilized living privileges are revoked." ? Also how would proud, Tribunal worshipping Dunmer ever possibly stoop to allying not just with the Nords, but agreeing to free their fucking slaves and work alongside them as equals? Fuck, they're even given settlements to live in within Morrowind's territories.

Daily reminder that there is a canon explanation for the player interacting with the world a la not actually in it.

You're 50% correct. CHIM itself is just one of the walking ways. They are six different paths to escaping mortality and becoming a god.
The six walking ways as far as I know are
The Prolix Tower, which is using one of the Towers to fire yourself into godhood, or climb your way to godhood.
The Psijiic Endeavour, which is essentially making yourself into a god simply through sheer will or immense, world-changing actions. Although the actual "lore" explanation is way more complicated.
Tonal Manipulation, which is what the Dwemer tried to do with the Heart, and what the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur succeeded at. I don't really understand it, but it's basically manipulating the "song" of the universe and changing your individual tone. The same thing happened with the Numidium causing a Dragon Break, which allowed for Mannimarco and some others at the same time, to use its the tonal abilities to change themselves.
Mantling, or Soul Fission, which is simply described as "walking like them until they walk like you." It's basically just imitating something until you become indistinguishable from it, and you become one and the same. This is what happened with the MC from Oblivion and Sheogorath.
Love or CHIM, which is coming to the realisation that the entirety of creation is just a dream inside a god, and that you don't exist, but then defying that and continuing to exist, but with the ability to modify the dream as you want. Basically lucid dreaming. This is what Vivec and Tiber Septim achieved.
Soul Fusion, which is combining souls into one big over-soul. The idea is that a single soul exists a certain amount of gradients below the soul of Aedra or Daedra, but that if you combine them you slowly rise up the gradients. Some people think this is what the Dwemer did, combined all of their souls into one thing (the Numidium), and the sum of all their souls was equal to the sum of a god's soul.
All of these come from the 36 Sermons, but it's still left pretty vague most of the time so some of these have a decent bit of speculation about them.

should be godhead.

His books, the Sermon of Vivec.
There's a secret message for the Nerevarine where Vivec admits that he murdered Nerevar.

sauce on pic plz

Ulfric could also do the shouty shit too.

If we take the Keening mission in Skyrim's account of what likely happened then they're in an alternate dimension or similar no?

It take a normal Nord a long goddamn to learn even one part of a Shout. He had to kill Toryyg by impalement in their duel.

The Dragonborn can learn shouts As long as he has a Dragon's soul in seconds. Save for one, where no soul is required.

sauce

And then, the last quest has the PC drop nukes to stop the Daedra invasion, confirming that the TES series was part of the Fallout series all along.

But that's not what happened to the mage, his soul got glued to the closest divine being (The Dragonborn) hence why you can summon his ghost.

I gotchu fam, it's a pretty funny read.
exhentai.org/g/481615/2271624455/

He shouted the old king to pieces.

Hmmmm, I don't see evidence of that. That *may* have been the intention of the Dewmer when they checked out but the object the mage struck had no connection to the DB, near as I can see he's either wherever the dwarves are or in another plane like it but can still be called by the DB as a favour.

From TES wiki

I don't buy that he's tied to you other than by his choice.

Oh or is that another propaganda bit.

I don't think the Keening mission would give the same outcome as what happened to the Dwemer. The guy only has Keening, and apparently doesn't need Wraithguard to use it, and he just hits a soul gem or something.
That's not at all the same scenario as using both Keening and Sunder on the Heart of Lorkhan, especially given that the Dwemer probably had a far greater understanding of how to use the tools. The mage guy probably just killed himself and ended up in Oblivion or another realm.

user, no.

He didn't shout the King literally to pieces. Anyone who uses the Voice is well aware that's fucking impossible. Especially when he's not a greybeard and doesn't have the very long years of meditation and training to do something like that.

I reckon it as Propaganda bit like saying Argonians are unemotional in spite of the fact they can emote pretty fucking well. or that Khajit are dumb skooma users.

What's more likely; Using only a tiny bit of a shout to disorient an opponent and then run him through or using an only partial bit of a shout to somehow blown said opponent apart.

Sounds like bullshit, it can only be found on the TESwiki and not on uesp. Some herobrine autist probably summoned him and forgot about it and got super spooked.

Trips confirm, thanks bro!

I'm done reading there…

Even UESP has the back bone to tell you straight to not trust in their stuff because they aren1t bethesda, but TESwikia? That mess?

Good day sir!

A similar power to the voice was used by the Redguards in their homeland, I think. The dwemer, the redguard and the nords all found the same power but approached it different ways. I can't remember what was wrong with the dwemer way, and we all know what happened to the Redguard way; fuckers blew up their own continent using it.

Agreed.
Morrowing a shit.

Redguard Sword-Singing and Nordic Voice are pretty similar, since they both draw on the user's soul and essence to conjure a sword or magic, but what was the Dwemer's version? I've never seen any mention of them using something similar to the other two.

Fucking Pankratosword. One of the things I want in a game.

As for Dwemer, fuck if I know what they done. Chances are they made themselves gods in another world.

But that's just a theory, a L O R E theory

I just make a tip here, but wasn't it some kind of long distance telepathic communication?

...

I think it was something with their machines, but I might have gotten that from a bad source.

The Dwemer's version is Tonal Architecture, which was used by Kagrenac to ping the Heart of Lorkhan

They want to reduce belief in Talos because Talos is an aspect of the nigga who made Nirn out of his body.
Their whole schtick was to destroy all the towers to return Elves to the ether that existed before.

That makes sense, I was trying to think of something that related to both Sword-Singing and the thu'um. Tonal Architecture is similar to the thu'um, since they're both related to the music of the world. So the thu'um would be like a lesser version of Tonal Architecture. But Sword-Singing is more about using your soul and essence, I don't think there's an actual musical component.

So he's right, kirkbride and Morroshit needs to be removed from Skyrim's lore.

You need to read more. The ambiguity is becasue of Azura's influence. Her entire sphere is liminality, borders and gray areas.

which mod

Wraightguard protects you from the Heart, not Keening itself.

If you pick up keening without Wraithguard you die. You get dealt a mortal blow.

Uh, no

your max health gets nuked, it's a grievous wound

if picking it up without wriathguard was supposed to kill you they would have had it do that

You take 50-125 damage a second if you hold either Keening or Sunder without Wraithguard equipped.
Also, if it does deal a grievous wound, why can the guy in Skyrim use it and seemingly not have any ill affects from it?

It did, you're thinking of the wraithguard replacement if you somehow killed Vivec before he gave you wraithguard
Keening and Sunder by itself would damage you over time

Reminder that Tiber Septim caused a Dragon Break with a Dwarven construct at the start of his rule, retconning the events of ESO from history.

Energies from the Heart dissipated over time, making it safe to touch?

Did you not read the post? Its got nothing to do with the Heart, the tool itself is dangerous to use without protection. If you pick it up in Morrowind without Wraithguard, you die. You can be as far away from the Heart as possible and you will still die. The heart isn't connected to Keening, it's just a tool to manipulate it.

I'm pretty sure If the MC of Morrowind is the Nerevarine, then Fargoth is Shezzarine.

All that stealth and stealing was a ruse, he planned pissing off that nord so much to give you quest,so you could re-learn the basics in your reincarnation like basic "how to get favors", stealth and of course testing you to not blurt it on his face where's his hiding place and actually teach you how to do social engineering right.

That could be from exposure to the Heart, rather than from the object itself. Given that we know the Divinity granted by the heart leaks/dissipates over time, it's not that big of a jump to put the same property on Kagarec's tools themselves.

The Nerevarine is a Shezzarine, though.

Keening in Skyrim is all cracked and battered. Whatever tonal architecture that was instilled into it isn't resonating right anymore.

Okay, that's a reasonable explanation

But Dwarven weapons made in such a way never wears out. The power is instilled in the very fabric of the weapon itself.

Doesn't work that way in the game mechanics.

And a shame that it doesn't, it would give Dwemer equipment more flavour.
Same thing happened to Daedric equipment in Skyrim, it was too easy to make which devalued it.

Or just Skyrim shitted on the lore just like Oblivion…

Sorry to be this meta.

Can you actually craft Daedric Armour in Skyrim? Doesn't it require extended torture of a lesser daedra to forge it?

It's a problem of lazyness. Bethesda are the kind of company that wants minimal costs and maximum profits. To do this, they probably overwork their employees which causes them to do the bare minimum. This explains the lack of attention to detail, the simple bugs that somehow still got through, the lazy level and enemy design and the lackluster gameplay.
They're never going to let someone like Kirkbride lock himself in his drug coffin for a week to get only 26 in-game books. They'll demand the entire script be finished within the week and for him to do the coding too just to save money.

That might not actually be the case. There's indications that the secret behind achieving CHIM instead of zero-summing is "love". It could be that Vivec simply wouldn't have the power to maintain the floating of Baar Dau without the people's love and worship.

You can, all all it requires is some ebony and a Daedra heart.

user in skyrim all you need is ebony armor, and something else to craft daedric armor now.

I wish, that would be a massive improvement.
And it would be even better if each Daedric equipment had stats depending on the daedra that was shaped into it.
Shame it was replaced with a recipe that you can find the ingredients for in the local stores.

During the Akaviri invasion Argonians rebelled and killed shitload of Dunmer, later Dunmer realised its better to fake "release of slaves" so Argonians only think they have freedom, they are basicly willing slaves now because they cannot sustain themselves without Dunmer and Dunmer treat them like garbage in non-argonian areas.

Nords + Dunmer alliance is because of Akaviri invasion, it started out as temporary but after seeing Daggerfall and Altmer forming shit they decided to do the same otherwise the combined armies of enemies would pick them apart.

"Love" in MK's metaphysics is used in the Aleister Crowley-ean sense. The easiest explanation of that is it's about imposing change on the world pertinent to your natural destiny.

To expand on that, Vivec said the Dwemer failed because they didn't know Love. As in, the Dwemer were all about dissecting reality, eventually taking them to the point of trying to figure out how to ascend into godhood, but they had no concept of what to actually DO with it once they've achieved that.

That's every TES game.
Every TES game has you start off as a prisoner as well.

I don't disagree, Love is definitely a component of Vivec's power. It's just that he uses his power arrogantly. If he were truly benevolent why keep the meteor hovering above the city? He demands love from his people because it's also necessary for the Tribunal to stay in power, it's also why he persecutes the dissident priests. If there is any kind of unrest it only serves to weaken the Tribunal more and empower Dagoth.
Vivec is practical and intelligent, but that cuts both ways. Keeping Baar Dau floating above Vivec is a constant reminder of his power and the protection he offers, but also a subtle threat that he could destroy them on a whim.

It's all a dream, so in the end it doesn't even matter.

I tried so hard, and got so far

Could he actually move it if he wanted to, though? He didn't really "stop" it, he just paused it. If he had the kind of power to move it away, shouldn't he also have had the power to completely halt its momentum while still leaving it hanging there for the purposes you described?

That dream is a reality, though.

I'd say that yes, he could have moved if he wanted to. There's a quote from Sermon 33 of the 36 Lessons that outlines his intentions very clearly.
"The citizenry of Vivec screamed as they saw a shooting star come down out of the sky hole like a toll-road of hell. But Vivec merely raised his hand and froze Lie Rock just above the city and then he pierced the monster with Muatra.
(The practice of piercing the Second Aperture is now forbidden.)
When Nerevar returned, he saw the frozen comet above his lord's city. He asked whether or not Vivec wanted it removed.
'I would have done so myself if I wanted, silly Hortator. I shall keep it there with its last intention intact, so that if the love of the people of this city for me ever disappear, so shall the power that holds back their destruction.'"

Dagoth Ur is great because even after the betrayal, he welcomes you and even wants to speak. You get to know more about him and how he isn't everything that everyone else make him out to be. Too bad he wanted to essentially rule Morrowind by destroying it.

Vivec is a mighty warrior and he seems wise. I do think that he tried to rule very respectfully and he handled the religion part better than Almalexia.

Sotha Sil you don't learn much about but he seems like a great genius. Which makes Almalexia'a meddling just all the worse. He didn't seem to have much interest in what happens in Morrowind at all.

Almalexia just went insane. She handled things badly. I see her as an unfortunate villain though but I think her sanity is long gone.

Caius is the real hero. Smokin that Skooma, bein shirtless n shiet.

What the fuck user?

Morrowind lore was impenetrable to me when I played it when I was younger. All I knew was that there was a dude hiding in the volcano whose head is a coin, and you have to kill him to win.
Also there's a naked blue and gold dude in a flying pyramid who always looks like he's tripping balls.

Orvas Dren is god tier dunmer

Fuck the tribunal.

Why did the Tribunal remove his face and feet?

To sum it all up, so he could be anyone he wanted to be when he reincarnated.

Morrowind is a shit and objectively bad game, but once you go through the bad parts of it (the entire game) and you have all the mage toys to play with, it's great.

Why do I feel like I've read this post before?

Memories fade, however autism does not.
You've seen this kind of autism before, but you don't know where.

Not with Daggerfall.

There you fucked up and got sent to a Pirate Cave, I meant, Privateer Cave.

In fact, out of all the TES Protags, the only reason they are the protagonist is because they have a good working relationship with the Emperor.

That's beautiful, user.

their creativity and concept art really went downhill after that game

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