Team fortress 2 developers are still passionate and they're just insanely understaffed due to the way valve works

I thought that was the point, they would have lost in a straight one on one fight so they had to be crafty.

Hence they died like bitches or without actually getting the chance to fight back. I remember two of them were talking about starting up an orphanage or some such and giving it all up before they got immolated by Pyro.

Passion don't mean nothing if it isn't in the final product.

Everyone is passionate about making bucketloads of cash for very little effort.

I'm sure if valve was structured like a normal company instead of Fatt-G's personal playpen they could have hundreds of dedicated hat-makers churning out cash printing 3d models for them.

It's dead anons, and Gaben's greedy jewness and paid mods killed it

I find that hard to believe. I'm more inclined to keep thinking that since 2010 TF2 has just been the dumping ground for all of Valve's shit ideas before they roll them out for their more popular multiplayer games. That way they have a closed environment to test shit on while doing so under the veil of "continued support".

Honestly, valve should give all of the development to the community, open all sources, etc.. Obviously, they'll maintain some control over it, for obvious (((reasons))). Their argument against this will be that it will spawn more hackers, but lets be honest, if people wanted to, they would already be hacking. They game is already free, so no one would fork it just to make it free. And the source is out there, although outdated. Nothing, except tf2c, came out of it. There are even plugins to make the game and servers steam-less and give you all ingame items, but people could not be bothered.

sometimes I miss TF2, then I remember how shitty Source engine is and I decide to not play it again.

Huh.

Also to add. Instead of complaining about broken weapons, people could get together and decide on custom stats for them. There are plugins for that too how do you think x10 works?.

"We got you surrounded, at least from this side" - the Soldier in his original voice lines
At any rate even if the TF2 devs were that into the game's development
1) They're not the original visionaries who crafted the wonderful world of pre-weapon-updates TF2
2) They work on a game that is bloated as fuck and no matter how much passion they may put into it, they have never and they will never make it less of a hassle to run and host permanently on your drives
3) They don't understand the reason that made TF2 special and only realized what makes TF2 popular, which is why it's taking so many hits from an even shittier version thereof with MOBA elements thrown into it
4) On that note, they don't understand the concept of classes any longer

This is the greatest tragedy in the tale of TF2. What started out as nice and distinct classes with individuality in both design and function - which were by no means perfect but at least had an identity that could be improved on - has now devolved into piles of indistinct, neon green and pink sludge. It's been snowballing since 2008 and hit critical mass in 2011, passing the point of no return.

tell that to the guy who started the LOL thread with a tf2 comic.

weren't they planning to add more classes according to an interview?

the only thing interesting out of this garbage is a jungle map for people who still cling onto tf2.

Seems like you dont want people to contribute to your thread

Bumping just for you.

i see you missed my post right above you, how ironic and funny.

Too fucking late

The last decent update for the game was,2014's halloween,and even that's debatable,everything post that has been complete ass. There is no reason for veterans to keep playing aside from pub stomping/trying to raise in the competitive scene which i have no idea if that's even alive anymore.

How the fuck would anyone even know before clicking on it? Webm or fuck off.

Wew, it officially started being shit during the Pyro update.

I do not know about this, but I do know that the unlockable weapons were originally designed so that you could create "subclasses", but that was kind of a buzzword and couldn't be backed up with anything, as the Ubersaw proves to this day that the default melee weapons are shit and that some playstyles will always, ALWAYS get picked over the more gimmicky, situational or unfun ones.

Well, actually let me put it this way: in the original vision for Team Defence Force Two (2), all weapons were tools in the hands of the players to deal with a given problem. The primary weapon (I'm going to assume that the Medigun and the Wrench/PDA count in this) is always used to do your class' assigned job: Soldiers rocket jump and do direct splash damage on the enemy, Heavies provide offensive and defensive support to pushes/denials with a barrage of bullets, Scouts meatshot every fucking thing.
However, when confronted with certain scenarios, i.e. an already low health enemy, someone not in your class' preferred range, desperation, low ammo etc. you have your trusted Secondary weapon to switch to. The Shotgun filled that role for 4 out of 9 classes not out of unoriginality, but out of necessity. Each class will use it in a different way, but they all provided a direct way to deal with a given problem. Engineers used it mainly to disarm stickies and to defend themselves from the close ranged enemy, Soldiers finish off airborne or heavily damaged opponents, Pyros just used it in combo with the Flamethrower at higher skill levels because Valve never fixed the fucking particles (but that's another story).
Then, finally, at the end of all of this, when you were on the ropes or your opponent was just too close to deal with him with your conventional weaponry, you switch out to your Melee. Melee, aside from Spy's and Engineer's, which are both classes designed AROUND the concept of melee weapons, were never meant to be any good, you're literally bringing an oversized fist to a gun fight. People used to complain a lot about Demoman's Win Bombs, but if you got too close to the guy his only options were either hoping to suicide bomb you or trying to defend himself with his lousy bottle like a drunkard. And tellingly, all but the Knife and the Bat deal the same amount of damage, because when you give up all of your tools and are one on one with your enemy, it shouldn't be possible for one of you to survive the fight simply because the tool he chose five minutes ago deals more damage than the other similarly useless-but-in-one-specific-instance-and-range tool. Scout's case is also important, since he's already a class focused on close-range confrontations and giving him the ability to fight fairly in close-range even when he gives up to the very tool that defines him is just unbalanced which is why he deals shitty damage with the Bat but gets around it by swinging much faster.

But when you add unlockables and don't force some arbitrary rule that prevents some of them from being used with others, all bets are off. Everyone dropped the main weapons because not only were they "boring" and "used to death", they didn't provide the same amount of drawbacks or sometimes even far surpass the original in use and damage. No Soldier uses the default shotgun unless he's a nostalgiafag, because literally any other option he has gives him or his teammates an advantage that just can't be beat. What's worse, you either drop your own playstyles to use whatever's the cheapest at that version of the game, or you're stuck losing confrontations that in no way should have played that way. Original TF2 was not a perfect game, obviously it was unbalanced as fuck what with the backstabs being delayed and some classes (Demoman, Scout) far surpassing the others for no reasons other than the math behind the damage, but if you mained Heavy and were good with him, there was no way you could lose a direct confrontation with the enemy team, unless they flanked you or had a Sniper. Now you may or may not be defeated by a frontal attack from any class as long as they have the correct tools to deal with you, but you will never know until you see them running at you with their Swords or Pickaxes or slightly militarily colored Shovels from the sky.

Oh yeah also fuck whoever on the dev team came up with the idea that all the classes should have some tool to self heal.

thank you for the webm user.

I dunno,i feel the love and war and EOTL update was alright,as well as invasion,2015 Halloween was shit,tough break was shit,meet your match was fucking aids,and scream fortress 2016 was shit,hell,smissmas 2016 wasn't even noticeable,i didnt even log in for the free loot i think.

Nice post.
This is part that really gets me
This is the sort of shit that has promoted so many players to abandon any concept class roles or team play. Now they just build their characters to be good at roaming for kills and 1v1 fights. Fuck Valve.

Pretty accurate, except for the Pyro that gets a shotgun for close range when his primary already fills that niche. He should have been given a revolver like the Engy and the Scout, which is funny because he did got the flaregun eventually.

Also, the melee weapons are kinda shit when compared to primaries but they do have a higher crit chance and many doctors will prefer to use corners and close quarters plus their speed in combination with their melee than picking their syringe gun.

I still maintain that the worst offenders in the whole game and the reason for it's downfall were the Soldier and the Demo due to how they were not balanced.
I swear, Valve must have an hard on for those 2 or they'd have fixed them a long time ago.

Soldier is the class with the best mobility, something that should have been the role of the Scout, thanks to rocketjumping.
Consider that the Scout trades speed for health and then consider that the Soldier gets his mobility but still has the second highest HP pool in the game. "Oh, it's because of self-damage!" means nothing if he keeps landing on healthkits, has self-healing\gunboats\parachute and innate resistance to it.
From a gameplay perspective, it makes no sense to make a character with the best mobility and best burst damage to also be tanky as fuck.

It gets to the point that close-quarters with a Soldier is suicide for many classes that get one-shotted from him and even Heavies have problems as long as the Soldier has a wall he can use for cover inbetween shots.
If his idea was supposed to be splash damage to hit multiple people at the same time, he did not needed as much base damage on it or to have 4 ready at any time. Having the damage reduced to half but a mechanic to charge shots spending more ammo ala Beggar's Bazooka would help a lot.

The Demo is practically the same thing, almost same mobility, almost same HP pool. A class made for defense ends up being incredibly agressive and core for it's damage potential in competitive teams because once again, splash damage also has high base damage for reasons.
What's more, the Stickies that a lot of people complained for being easy kills for the Demo were changed and then changed back because "how am I gonna destroy a Sentry if I gotta wait for them to go full power?", despite the fact there's already a mechanic for that applied to the Soldiers rockets that always deal 90 damage to the sentries.

You know how most people regard primary weapons as the default optimal tools and every other a side-grade for a very speficic circunstance? That's how classes go with TF2, Soldier and Demo are the stock classes, everyone else is a sidegrade.

Yeah, it's not hard to be passionate about being paid to make shit.
What was that quote about "the work of years can be destroyed in a single day"?
I want my TF2 back, not the fucking 15gbs of cosmetic abomination.

Doing gods work, user

So how would you fix TF2?
I'd remove all unlockable weapons, then bring back one alternative for one of the weapons. Soldier could use the Rocket Launcher or Direct Hit. Spy could use the Knife or the YER. Medic could use the Medigun or the Kritzkrieg. Pyro could get the Shotgun or the Detonator. That way you get an alternative version of a class to mix things up, but the classes still stick to their main roles and there isn't a specific superior choice.
Some of the sets are quite fun, so they could be reworked into their own classes. Shotgun + Buff Banner/Batallion's Backup + Disc Action fits a neat role that you can't find anywhere else, and would make a neat class.

It's only a start to fixing TF2's balance, but it would bring the gameplay back to earlier TF2 at least. You'd then have to rebalance the game so it isn't around Soldier, and do something about cosmetics.

Make Soldier have more rocket jump self damage.

No more free to play.
In order to play the game you need to buy it. Bot famring becomes less profitable, metal sink is now viable and keys can go down in price.

Could you imagine the asshurt if all custom cosmetics and weapons disappeared overnight? Everyone's virtual pixel shekel bank, poof into dust.
If Valve is as immune to blame as everyone thinks they are, they'd do this (if they had any balls left).

I made 3 dollars in game from being a free 2 play, feels good, man

You sir are a blight

You're a piece of shit

Cool

Hey, dont blame me. I paid fucking nothing and I got some things other people would love to have in exchange. I am good at jewing out profit.

Kill yourself. I mean it.

I doubt they have the balls to do it. Think about the community of tards who do unbox livestreams or collect unusual hats. They'd take autistic screeching to a new level.
I'd expect them to do that for TF3 if they ever released a TF3

You are just butthurt like most goyim lmao

Polite sage for going off topic, but why?

YES YES YES YES YES
Could you imagine it? The butthurt would radiate for years.

No, they don't understand Team Fortress 2 and they don't know what they're doing. You could say that that's just how "passion" works for an underling who needs a manager to give them any sort of direction, but I don't think that counts as any sort of genuine creative passion.

Well as you said, the Flare Gun was introduced exactly because of that. But the Shotgun has its merits because the intended way to play Pyro wasn't to W+M1 around, but to passively deplete your opponent's health, even if it means spraying at him from a distance while he runs for the health pack. In fact, the Pyro was one of the scariest classes to go up against in big maps not because of his strength but because not having a Medic at hand could pretty much kill you and all of your team mates on the spot or render you useless. The Shotgun also helped him in situations where the enemy was further away from the flamethrower's range.
I assumed this and the bullet deviation were off in my considerations. Obviously the critical hits aspect plays a role in this, but we're talking high end plays and servers that manually disable chance from the equation. But yeah you're right about that.

Soldier is based on the old TF Soldiering, the rocket jumps are core to his class. What is not core to his class is shit that lets him survive the jumps. Learning where the health kits are is crucial and lets him be even faster than Scout, but his mobility tool is also his main damage dealer, give him a whiff of a flamethrower or spray him with bullets and he might as well die while jumping around.
Demoman is a mixed bag because all of his attacks are based on the assumption that players are very complacent in their paths and never look down. Making the arming of the actual stickies impossible in mid air or immediately is the good way to balance that, but it's still an easy class to play with and do well. The Airblast and the building-hauling are the only two mechanics I liked that they introduced post TF2's greatness because they deal with the problem without altering the original class.

When Valve believes that hosting their own TF2 servers is a non-secure investment, expect the death of the game.

No one fucking knows whats going on. Gaben fucking thinks he is Willy Wonka and tried to make a company based on what an utopic company would be like. A lot of Valve's inner structure seems to be taken outta some idyllic film.

TF2 isnt infinite, but it will last pretty long, the actual death of the game is when it needs to move to Source 2, and then, Valve's call will decide its fate.

Its not going to happen.

Sorry for not disabling sage, but I am fairly confident it could happen.

Its not worth the resources. Valve has nothing to gain by porting it. They will have to invest time money and labor into porting it and it won't make a single cent more as a result. They will pimp it out with minimum investment for as long as people will buy keys and shit. Once people stop buying shit they will kill it and go even more jew on CSGO.

At the moment nothing is going to source 2, and with how much work goes in to maps currently they aren't going to switch over every map to it.

Valve will gain a lot of increased attention from it, and maybe more players. Of course, 'tis all theory. Maybe it could revive the game, I dont know.

Its printing money as is there is no reason to risk changing that.

Again can you state source 2 being any success like UE4 is? It's stillborn but vavlve will make 1 game as a tech demo.

wasn't the EOTL update notorious for having like none of the content advertised?

Most of you are probably butthurt because you don't have a hat and were shot by someone with a hat.

Yeah, its all a lot of wishful thinking from my part. Is there any music you guys like listening to for shooting people? embed related

And for the record, TF2 might actually move to source 2 because then they could add more cosmetic slots.

They don't need to add more cosmentic slots. 3 is the perfect number

SAVAGE

Not for pyro, his backpack is cosmetic so you can't have hat, eyes, body mod, and backpack. You have to pick. For the most part you're right though.

Oh Jesus I didn't even realize what I was saying.

Thats the point. It prevents you from being satisfied with the way your character looks.
If you are ever truly satisfied with the way they look then there is no reason to seek out a new cosmetic.
With only 1 its a pretty basic choice, which one looks better.
But with 3 you have to chose from combinations, some of which don't overlap for no good reason. The goal is to get you to keep you constantly "improving" the way your character looks while being unable to get them to look perfect or ideal.

Fucking idiots.
Even if you couldn't be assed to put on fucking ADBLOCK, the uploader will make the insane profit of 0.001 dollar if you watch it once.
What the fuck is wrong with you.

And how does valve work?

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on one hand a lot of people would lose some rare unobtainable items, but on the other hand it would fuck over the faggots responsible for constantly increasing the key prices

talented people are hired regardless of individual projects' needs and then get to work on whatever they want, thus it's impossible to hire more people to work on TF2.

So it's like wasted talent all day, every day?

well it is a good way to ensure everyone is passionate about what they do, but yeah I guess what someone is good at and what they want to do doesn't always necessarily match up.

Technically, the TF2 team could request them to find people to assign SPECIFICALLY to their game, it just doesnt happens because the other shitty departments would want the same.

Remove all unlocks period, as well as airblasting and hauling. Just use 2007 TF2 as the base and fix all the bugs and other flaws (like backstab hitboxes and the fucking flame particles). Keep teleporter and dispenser upgrades. If you want to integrate variety into the gameplay, make it form naturally by changing the base characters, rather than bloating your game with tons of shitty weapons that distract from the class roles.

As for more in-depth changes, what I've got so far:
Scout
Soldier
Pyro
Demoman
Heavy
Engineer
Medic
Sniper
Spy
Honestly not sure about shotgun changes - puts focus on intended use and makes them combo off of class primaries, but may make them too good for secondaries. Also considered changes to HP of some classes (Soldier 200->175, Pyro & Demo 175->150, etc).

If I had enough time and autism, I'd actually try and fork TF2C and implement those changes - make it TF2C2: Actually Fixing Shit Edition.

how old is that gmod animation?

It's from 2010-2011 I believe, so just about the time TF2 went off the deep end with the Mannconomy and F2P shit.

It still hurts user.
How did TF2: Classic turn into TF2: lets play this barely populated game with 4 teams edition, look at our shitty sten and m4 models!

Probably because a tranny furfag usurped the previous mod leader.

Do I really need to mention that faggot every time?

I never followed the mod aside from it's early stages so I don't know.
One more reason to hate furfags.

AlphaBlaster is a dumb kid who hosted TF2:C servers for Holla Forums. After constantly flexing his small e-peen and banning everyone because of they didn't want autistic ear rape micspam, he starting calling everyone autistic bronies/furries.
He's obsessed with Trump, and he calls anyone that calls him out on his obsession anti-Trump and a spic. He goes to school with a fucking MAGA hat on all the time and gets bullied for it like the beta male he is.
Speaking of his school life, he also did a presentation on how the holocaust never happened (and also got bullied the fuck out for it)
When he's not spending his time being a massive Holla Forumsween wanabee, he's ERPing as Toon Link on /cuteboys/, as well as shitposting in IRCs about how he wants a tranny boyfriend because "girls are self-centered and gross".
Eventually he started fearing for his life when people started to put out his dox and he shutdown his own discord.
There's a thread with discussion about him on /cow/
>>>/cow/248069
Here's a better explanation if I'm wrong about certain things

Forgot to mention, by banning everyone from the only populated server, he effectively killed TF2:C. Barely anyone plays it anymore, not even on the VaultF4 servers (I don't know if those are even up anymore)

TF2:C's mods are left leaning authoritarians who thought police you. Why play there?

All I could think of while reading that shit is the guy who had his photo taken at that TRS pool party meetup. You know, the one with the dopey face wearing the "Standard Pool Co" shirt. The 15/99 one who "donates to nationalism because he loves his country". I don't have it saved but damn if that isn't spot on in my mind.

People really overstate the influence of this fag. The worst thing he did was shut down some competing Holla Forums servers, but most of the impact he had was just fuck over the experience of some people here or unlucky randoms with his rampant bans, shitty meme-map rotation, and saysounds. At the mod's height, his server wasn't ever the decidedly most populated (especially since it went up and down on a fucking whim), and new players had plenty of other options.

At the very worst he killed interest in the mod here, which was a sizable portion of its former fanbase, but not the core of it (otherwise you'd think we'd have had a bigger say on its development).

>tfw you'll never finish your own meme-map.

I had some autistic idea about making shekels in tf2 so i can buy some vidya that i can't pirate, but by the point i mad a few hundred i figured out that with my curriculum if i was working i'd make more than i made trading, and that it was basically working since i didn't actually play some fucking video games while at it. So i uninstalled.

WebMs are fine and all, but I'd still like the option to watch the original because I don't care for ant-sized media. The hotpocketer removed the link though, so I guess I'm stuck with this.

You mean keeping steam and its servers up? Sure, I guess.

The hotpockets don't understand their own rules if they're submitting to the "all videos must be webm" stupidity in that event. I can't blame them with how vague or even flat-out unwritten some rules are though.

Not sure if downloading the original video gives a view or not but last I recall it doesn't, and there's no evidence I can find with a quick skim that the guy in question monetizes anything. en.savefrom.net/#url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P8Ubkn_a6Y

I support the notion that videos should be mirrored, but they have to be posted on mixtape or somewhere if they're big or we get ant-sized media.

Speaking of Valve, Half-Life 3 still never?

Usually they are unless a grainy webm is posted in the thread itself.

Still never and likely the true never instead of the meme never.

Go back to reddit.

Here's the original

Filling the threadly Reddit mention quota or something?

I've had nastolgia before, but not nastolgia that hurts

I have hundreds of hours spent playing Engineer in TF2, and I'm damn good at it. Uncle Dane makes me look like a child flailing at the keyboard.

uclen daen si a veyr godo snetyr mna
fuck spy mains

Really? because his crosshair placement is shit and it looks like he uses a cinderblock as a mouse. His movement isn`t anything special either

The key to success is sentry placement.

I have played with a few spys that could wreck him silly. Jump amby headshot him then dance in a circle on top of his sentry, waiting for him to tele back then amby him again all the time the gun is trying to lock on to the spy. Look up fuckers like Chance! or Toxicsniper.

He would still get eviscerated by some spies I've played with over the years.

Man, I just want L4D3 at this point, with improvements to the actual shooting.

...

I'm Uncle Dang!
Widowmaker is a downgrade because I can't shoot people from across the map with it!
No I don't care that the shotgun does pisspoor damage at that range it has an ammo pool separate from my metal so I'm not punished for poor aim and can sit next to my dispenser.
No I won't rocket ammopacks to me you can't use ANY of the ammopacks
Heavy mains use this shitty sandwich replacement and be my metal collecting monkey because I'm too lazy to get it myself! No it's really really bad for heavies but you need to support me. The support class.
By the way I build teleporters facing walls and I build dispensers not in doorways.
Thanks Nieces and nephews for playing engineer like me everywhere so I can pretend like my strategies are good!

It's almost like he mains engineer or something.

I don't play pubs. Where do you think I know good spies from? You and this eceleb would get destroyed by a few spies I've met.

We've seen this before so many times.

Valve fan gets a chance to visit Valve and they are too blown away by getting to visit such a famous dev team to make any critical judgement.

This always leads to said fan making big promises on behalf of Valve based on their misguided optimism, and is consequently made to look like an idiot when Valve lets everyone down again.

...

user we post WEBMs here, we don't link directly to commercial yt channels. Please lurk more before posting stupid shit like that.

Weren't those changes implemented a few updates ago? I could have sworn I read the exact same decreases for hammer units and damage variance.

The lengths you will go to avoid watching youtube videos, with or without adblock.
If anything, you're the fucking jews.

I get the point of webm, but you're the newfriend if you think everyone on 8ch has always been bitching over youtube instead of webm.
You're not even defending webm.

For what, adding more cancer, skins and wacky guns?
Eat shit.

...

Why not you?
Only absolute complete faggots hate demopan. It's a fact.

Have you considered slow and painful suicide?

The game died when it went F2P, you stupid mongrels.

After all the HUEs came in, then followed the furfaggots, then the ponyfags and eventually the game collapsed due to it becoming deviantart II.
Not to mention how many fucking furries are on steam to start with, and how many disgusting furniggers probably are on Holla Forums right now.

Also, furniggers, stick to your containment board.

/fur/ is a secret whitelist club

Honestly those shit communities were there even before f2p.

How hard would that be? Isn't TF2C just based on a leaked old version of TF2? We could just use the leaked version and make our own mod of it.

Defeats the point if nobody even checks if it's commercial or not beforehand and demands a webm regardless.

...

Furfaggots have been playing the game since day one you revisionist fucking nigger.

It died with the Mann-Conomy update. Charging multiple fucking dollars for mundane weapons and jewing the fuck out of the game was utterly inexcusable and it was clear what they intended to do next.

I fucking hated the microtransaction store and the entire skinner-box model of keys and crates but I miss in-game trading and the old backpack/craft system.

Playerbase, user. Playerbase.
How do you get people to play it? You have to round up people who want the old TF2 back and weren't turned off by TF2C.

The people currently working at valve are hacks who lost all their talented employees. Gabe just made an announcement about how terrible banning people from other countries and how bad not letting in illegal immigrants is.

I dont think Engineer is too difficult to master. Dane also never moves his fucking sentries, apparently, which irks me to no end since he fucking did a video on sentry placement.

...

Post proof.

I'm not the baiter, but it's heavily implied valve is swarmed with SJWs and cucks. The only reason it isn't stated anywhere is because valve is one of the most silent gaming companies and money comes first for them. Remember Hatred? How Gabe himself had to step in because of his team of cucks censoring shit? Remember the Tranny that worked at valve as a translator, didn't do shit, valve paid for their surgery, got fired, and eventually regrew the balls to sue valve?

Just look at DotA 2 and CS:GO. Especially fucking dota. The #1 complaint in the games use to be that you got teammates that didn't speak your fucking language in a game entirely based around teamwork and communication. The faggot ass community would cry racism and xenophobia over an objectively fact complaint that effected the game. It took them 2 years to seperate US from Russia. In a game where the whole point is to tryhard and talk to your teammates, they couldn't even separate people from across the god damn globe that don't speak English with +500 ping. They also never directly built a wall between the two. They resorted to softball measures to force the two apart. You still get fucking mexicans and shit on US that don't speak a word of English, and Valve wont fucking do anything about it. Not to mention these regions have hyper-inflated ELO, so being a high rated player in taco land makes you a shit player in US servers. So you have lopsided games every. single. time. Valve knows about this. They just ignore it because "muh racism".

I dont know for MOBA's, but ping is generally not an issue for me in FPS'es, either when I have 0 ping or 200.

I just realized, the demoman and the pyro never made an apearence in Meet the Spy trailer.

And in the Meet the Soldier trailer, it shows the only time where a class kill his other self from the other team.

What the fuck does that mean? Is Holla Forums getting a big influx of spics and niggers or is it always the same guy?

It means a red soldier killed a blu soldier.
You illeterate bagel.

During Portal 2's commentary one of the nodes talked about how referring to the player as "he" wasn't progressive so they make sure to always use "they" from now on.

Oh I know you, faggot. You are the nigger who fucking pronounces "weak" as "week" and puts random "e"s in place of other vowels. Fucking off yourself.

The big thing is that valve is basically ignoring the #1 issue with their game and allowed the cucks in their community to shut it down. They acknowledge it's a problem to, because they incorporated all sorts of soft-ball measures in an attempt to fix it because they're too politically correct to directly address it. Even league of fucking legends, with its blue haired empowered female jynx character, separated Canada/US, Mexico/South America, Europe, and asia.

The ping is secondary to the communication and rank issues, but it's still a pretty big factor in dota. There's a lot of abilities where you have to guess your enemies position, chain your abilities or combo them with your teammates, dump all your skills before the enemy stuns you, chase people down, not get juked, see the enemy and have .5 seconds to respond or you're dead, etc that having more than 200 ping will basically make you miss the majority of these.

"Pure Coincidence"

I am speaking from TF2's point of view, of course. Ping has never bothered me too much. However, what bothers me is the fact that Pyro is a crutch class for getting free critical hits.

I'm gonna kill that FATASS nigger

It seems like they never knew what to do with that class. The last time I played (probably around 2014) the pyro was literally centered entirely around airblasting+axestinguish, and has been since 2007.

2008 or 2009*
Whenever they nerfed the backburner.

Now its centered again around puff and sting, which is a shitty thing to fight against since you get disoriented and crit combo'd.

So basically there never was a time it wasn't centered around it?

yes, when there was no airblast, no degreaser, and no flareshit

That's why I said basically. 1 year out of the 10 it's been alive for.

I fucking despise it, yet I see the necessity to find a way to make that piece of shit viable for something. They should have made the flamethrower shoot streams of fire instead of puffs of shit.

He was suppose to be a ambush class, but the map design makes that basically impossible since the majority of maps are full of chokepoints.

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Fair enough.

But fucking why? He's possibly the easiest class to deal with. Certainly the most fucked about because Valve keep listening to people who get butthurt over him for no good reason.

Not the Pyro, the airblast.

They could have rebalanced Pyro around a weapon like the Detonator. That thing fixes half of Pyro's problems, and opens up a lot of options. You can det jump up places where nobody expects a Pyro, so you can jump down and attack from behind. You can spam chokepoints and harass groups, but you have to detonate it yourself so there's some skill involved. You can pick off enemies that are just outside your flamethrower range, while keeping with the whole pyro theme.
Airblasts are cool and all for extinguishing teammates, but a liquid flamethrower + detonator set would give Pyro a solid niche.

gr8. I think maybe he should have a weapon which can switch between liquid streams of fire to the usual puffs.

No difference. It's a ability that doesn't do damage unless under certain circumstances and is only usable at close range. Demoman Soldier can both do a similar thing which also does damage and can be used at range.

Are you baiting or just dense?

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Also

I'm not implying anything except that it's daft to complain about a mechanic that is already inferior to something a number of other classes can already do.

Just to be clear, I'm referring to the fact that both Soldier and Demoman can use their projectiles to control the movements of their enemies much like the airblast. Only they can do it at range and also deal damage in the process.

It's dead because nothing good lasts forever

Hoping that people superior to you get bullied is a sign of jealousy

This sums up everything.

Gape newell is the only good video that youtube channel ever put out, they should make the thing only about gape newell.
Like the guy who makes drake from drake & josh changing his haircut and looking less like his only accomplishment in life.

So removing all of the Pyro's utility and ultimately making him eat shit by every class since he'd get zoned by every other class.

Gl getting ammo packs since engineers will need to rebuild every time the point is capped

because nothing is more fun than free Mini-crits which also launch you flying and in turn, grants more mini crits as well as fall damage.

Mash reload for results. Fuck the medigun triangle (QF > Stock > Kritz > QF). Do you prepare for an uber incoming or a kritz? Fucked if I know

If a deity exists, I thank them for not giving you the autism to do that because it's fucking terrible.

The only problem I see with Airblast is that it's too easy for the Pyro to use and it's too hard for the player getting hit to recover mid air from it. It wouldn't be a problem to nerf it if only you could prevent all of the classes having a way to self douse, which is why healing items for all classes but the Medic should be outright eliminated. The only ones that might still keep their own self healing tools, aside from the Engineer, are all support or leaning-to-support classes.

And both are completely unreliable and dont have the disorientation effect, or the guaranteed follow up crits.

What the fuck is wrong with Holla Forumstard's obsession with Vanilla TF2 ( i mean the 2007 version vanilla) the lack of mechanic back in those days really stiffed up the playstyle of each class, sure most unlocks are a mistake but the earlier ones fit the bill of being a true sidegrade to stock (except the ubersaw)

>Scout
I'm okay with this, the scattergun is the perfect stock
>Soldier
What is the fucking purpose of increasing self-damage? With 50% increase you deal more damage to yourself than to your enemy.
Making the shotgun minicriting airborne targets is just useless, you'd rather just airshot the guy with the rocket launcher
>Pyro
This is okay, since Pyro is an 'ambush' class (pyro is a really goddamn oddball class really)
This shit is just beyond OP retard, ever wonder why the shotgun suck at medium range? While you can blame the spread, most of the blame goes to damage falloff, now making this shit minicrit anyone who's on fire is pretty much making a reserve shooter on steroids and cocaine
DO YOU EVEN INTO BALANCE HOLY SHIT
>Demoman
Again, what is the fucking point of this you will deal more damage to yourself than to the enemy. Also damage variance is set to off in most cases of gameplay
Again. what is the fucking point of this, limiting demo's mobility? After each jump, the demo is already at the mercy of healthpacks. The biggest problem with the stickylauncher is the prime time of each sticky, they actually nerfed it once but the whole collective demoman players shit their pants and flowed an huge amount of salt, ofc Valve being the pussies they were reverted it
>Heavy
This is good, since the Heavy really needed a dire buff
Whatever, no one uses the shotgun since you already have a bigger version of it as a primary weapon
>Engineer
No thanks, the game already decreased it to 50 metal, i can tell that you never played the game in the first place anyways
AHAHAAHAHAHAHAH
Every engineer, i mean the ones that run stock, will always, ALWAYS repair their sentry first than to kill the enemy. Since the sentry is already doing a really good job at that, why attempt to even add more firepower when you can bang the fucker to fill it up with boolits
>Medic
What for? we already have unlocks for that
>Sniper
Whatever
>Spy
Riiiiiiiiiiightt, because being invisible doesn't do you a good job at evading enemies in the first place right? Really, having spies get damage resist on cloak will only put a crutch on their class more, not that the Dead Ringer had already done that before
How about, NOT changing them at all

Seeing those proposed changes, i might as well play the current TF2 than you retarded abomination of tacked-on 'balances'''

tl;dr
Scout is wowitsfuckingnothing.gif
Soldier has it's mobility gimped, and dealing more damage to himself than to the enemy
Pyro is fucking overpowered
Demo has it's mobility gimped, and dealing more damage to himself than to the enemy
Heavy is good
Engy is better in the base game
Medic is wowitsfuckingnothing.gif
Sniper is wowitsfuckingnothing.gif
Spy is having a slightly crutchy version of the DR

the heavy nerf killed it for me. nerfing an already mediocre class, then nerfing it even more. they clearly dont have a clue what they're doing.

This is not alphablaster by the way goys.
Join my discord.

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no.

Wew.
Do you also complain Heavy does poorly beyond close-mid range too? Or that Sniper is fucked by pretty much everyone when they aren't halfway across the map? Airblasts just nullify most of the Pyro's threats at mid-range (where he's meant to be bad) and forces those enemies to move in closer to be more effective (where he's meant to excel).
That's what Engineers on offense are meant to do - if they're focusing on more permanent entrenchments then they're playing wrong. With hauling you give them too much freedom to move their full-upgraded fortifications up and make the other team's attempts to push back much more harder. It also severely reduces the importance of Sentry placement since Engineers can freely move their nests positions between offensive pushes to be unpredictable. These two facts combined mean that any team with two competent enough engineers could drive games into more stalemates (or default RED victory if it's ATK/DEF) as an offense team would be less capable at countering enemy defense placement and a defense team would be less able to pushback against attackers that have already fortified their position.
You thought I meant change it while it's already active? Come on.

(…)

Because it was when the game seemed to have any semblance of consistent design, before Valve started throwing everything at the wall top see what would stick.
More mechanics != better design. Shoving all this shit without any care for the consequences tom the rest of the game is extremely dangerous. If anything, the slew of items has made the game much more shallow where now every class feels the same and build meta is centered around being too well-rounded and forgoing class specialties and roles for the most part. While some classes were more restrictive than others or underpowered, the solution should be to improve them at a base level, not to distract from those problems with "sidegrades".
Good one.
Those are good things. Those classes were far too agile and tanky for having their kind of offensive power, and making their added mobility more situational (so they don't go rocket/bomb jumping around the map from health-pack to health pack) and making them less able to just blast rockets at their feet/airblast stickies in their face to deal with people up close makes the game less dependent on maps to restrict their movement and fire. The skill floor for these classes was far too low compared to others, which made no sense given they also had higher skill ceilings than other classes as well.
Pyro was already underpowered - despite being focused on close-range combat and ambushing, the Scout served that role better with his higher speed and equally powerful weapon, and his damage was grossly outperformed by the Heavy. Buffing him like this makes him actually good at his job without making him too good (hence the huge increase in damage fall-off on his flamethrower).
Which was too low. Having it cost as much as a Dispenser makes more sense given that they have similar utility (though I'd argue that it has potentially greater utility in most situations.
Like I said earlier
This was already introduced nearly two years ago in current TF2. I'd say it's more welcome than the "reduced timers" change that came with it. It's low enough to not really make the Spy significantly more capable at retreating but makes him slightly less vulnerable from a stray rocket or pill when trying to infiltrate.

Though you're both right in that the shotgun changes are pretty retarded. I stand by most of the other changes though.
Incidentally, I imagine there's probably more talk about the game's balance going in these kinds of threads than there ever was at Valve when they came up with their ass-backwards additions to the game.

Easy
They want the Social Credit and to avoid ostracism. Most of them have never played day one tf2 and realized just how fucking broken and unfun it is.

It's like the monkeys beating the monkeys climbing the ladder thing.

He is in jail for owning a plenty of child porn. (is this the drake & josh you are talking about?)

Bullshit. They would have not added shit things like matchmaking modes to make it seem like a console shooter and help reward ragequitters. Ragequitting mentality should have stayed on consoles. Learning how to use the server browser and finding the type of style of game you want should be compulsory.

Can't argue with that, but
Roles and specialities still exist, you can't defend a point as good as the engineer as a scout, and you definitely can't make a push without a medic. While the slew of items does made the specialities of each class very blurry, removing the mechanics that help them complement their class roles (hauling, airblasting, etc) is just goddamn backwards
>Nigger-Knight set
I might be biased to this, since i like it alot when it came out, back then it can pretty much tank demo's stickies and rockets. Of course then almost everyone fucking uses it
>Cuntsman
The hitbox is really shitty i agree, but it really is a sidegrade since it turns the sniper's combat range into a medium-long one
>Sandvich
How can people be against this? The true function of the sandvich is to heal your medic, don't eat it
>OG Backburner
Yes it's broken as fuck, good riddance
>Amby
I still can't believe that Volvo released a goddamn weapon to counter the same weapon the sniper has in the same update. Anyways the amby itself is very situational and you need good aim to the best out of it, if you can't click heads consistently, the stock revolver is better in everyway
>nearly every melee weapon
They were really broken at launch, except the Eyelander, good point
>true sidegrade to stock
Sorry, did you forgot to mention the Direct Hit, Kritzkrieg, Natashca (ok, it was really broken at first, now it's just shit), Flare gun, Jarate, and some others?
The mobility was never really the issue with them, in fact people in vanilla TF2 did that all the goddamn time. The problem was how much firepower they got. Look at the soldier, the guy has 4 rockets, it deals a decent amount of damage at range, yet has 200 HP, the way i see it, why the hell does a burst-damage character get so much HP. Same goes with demo's stickylauncher, 8 stickies, fast load time, and really really good damage.
There is nothing wrong with having higher skill ceiling, it's really there so people can put some goddamn effort of playing the game, also you could argue that the Engy, Medic, and Heavy has lower skill floor than Solly or demo as well, why do we have to raise the skill ceiling for them?
You forgot about the spy though, and the scout is really goddamn frail that the the soldier can obliterate him with 2 shots, and he can't ambush 2 people at once. As for the heavy, you don't supposed to meet him head-on remember?
That's where you got it wrong, buffing the damage will override the damn falloff since you'll just w+m1 at them, oh don't forget that w+m1 is still really good at dealing damage at this point
What? That is never the case, engies will always build their dispenser first than to build teles or not build teles at all. Making the teleporter into 50 metal is good since you could build it as an afterthought, but upgrading it still takes the same effort as other buildings

(cont.)

But removing those mechanics i told you about is already a backwards ass move, and adding these tacked-on buffs into weapon will only break balance
You know what, you're right

>Incidentally, I imagine there's probably more talk about the game's balance going in these kinds of threads than there ever was at Valve when they came up with their ass-backwards additions to the game.
We Holla Forumsirgins really have alot more time and autism in our hands than our capability to do it really

Until a medic steps in and outheals the other team and ubers the top player, the again medic mains are as rare as a unicorn. Really, having those self-heals that you're talking about does undermine his role abit, but it also helps them operate independently without the need of having medics tagging along always but of course they pale in comparison to Medic's healing powers, the self-heal is there just to fix the symptom but it's not a cure
The only thing i agree with your post

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I buy it, seems like everyone at valve wants to work on VR shit and Dota 2, including one of the TF creators, Robin walker. Like to the point where even the more profitable games like CS:GO seem to suffer as well.

Still cant believe tf2 changed so much, it went form this fun arcade game to this compeitive retro counter strike with classes.

Fuck, i hate TF:GO, i just want the old tf2 back.

TF2 was never good, only anons who were kids or teenagers when it came out remember it fondly.

This board really is irredeemable now.

TURN OFF THAT PESKY ADBLOCK

It's my opinion, not bait

Given how many games there are that deliver on what TF2 wants to be nowadays, and does it better and in a far more intuitive way, it's not surprising. As much as the games aesthetic and charm has worn on me, I just want something a bit fresher, a little different, and a lot easier to coax my friends into playing. For now, Dirty Bomb (even as P2W as it can be) and Overwatch are it. The barrier to entry is low, and it's unlikely they'll get completely stomped by one guy playing Soldier using some rocket launcher with a thousand attachments they can't even read during the killcam.

I saw the TF2 classic threads here ages ago, and I never joined in (cos I'm European, I always assume the hosted servers are American), but given what I read, it seemed like a far better intro to team fortress than the game itself is now. There's too much random crap that can kill you and not really any good feedback as to why it did, something that a vanilla experience would have ZERO issues conveying to any person playing for the first time. Likely questions such as "Why can't I light this demoman on fire, and why does he have a sword?" or "How come I can't get headshots, I'm shooting them in the face with the shotgun?" would be far easier to understand.

You know, given this logic, it's easy to see why the sniper is played so much. They have one role and that's kill people. Mechanically they behave exactly as you'd expect from almost any other FPS.

I don't think much any update will bring numbers back to what it was at this rate. People who've left the game have left it for what it is now, not what it could, or will, be. I know some competitive teams who're just bored with it at this point, and I don't see what valve can do to bring people back.

Nothing feels worse.

That takes fucking effort.

The TFC mercs weren't silly enough to ignore the laws of physics and common sense to survive like the TF2 mercs.

Stay mad kiddo

I still fucking mad about it
They also nerfed Natascha and Brass Beast as well, at this point (after the nerf of Loose Cannon as well) my hatred for valve has reached it's climax

I remember that guy and the TF2C threads, Anons hated him for being a massive huge faggot, he reminds me of a Alt-Kike Trumpcuck TRSodomite even if he isn't one.

Here, TRSodomites are such a huge lolcows.
is there anyone more IMPLICIT than Dicky Spencer and Grinder Greggy?