No moral choice system

Reminder that Adventure's Dr. Eggman really did nothing wrong and was just avenging his grand father's downfall by the hands of an almighty UN-like organization intervening in his quest to save humanity from an alien invasion.

Considering he kills 2/3rds of the original cast in Trasnformers the Movie (1986), I think that's what he was always meant to be: a ruthless villain intent on winning the war for cybertron.

The cartoon series was maximum "maintain the status quo" except to add new toys to the series (until after the movie).

advance wars, more and more so as the game goes on.

i should say as the series goes on

Like pic related?

ENCLAVE IS FUCKING SICK

OP, this is exactly what you're asking for. It's janky as all hell, but it's a good kind of jank and the story is simple enough you can follow both the good and evil sides of it without taking notes.

This fucking screencap reeks of safefag.

Rogue is hot

*SAMEFAG

yeah

Trauma Team is EERILY similar to SA1 in this regard.

6 campaigns with diffrent characters, invertvined story and COMPELETELY different vatiations of the gameplay. Some of them are close to the core gameplay (MC), some are far off the deep-end (like the Ace Attorney-styled investigations).
Once you finish them – you get the final story.
It's really like SA.

Oh, and the 6 main campaigns can be completed in any or almost any order as far as I remember.
The onyly thing is there is no 'good' or 'bad', since all characters are doctors and technically 'good'.

Good and dark.
Technically they're antiheroes. Especially if you consider Rouge and Shadow knew all about the ARK and the imminent collision.

About Ow the Edge, one of the things I liked about it is the "3 factions at war" stuff, you had GUN, Black Arms and Eggman robots fighting each other over the world, plus the heroes that wanted their own things, either neutral, good or bad. Hell, is one of he things I've always liked about Saints Row. I remember that in one of the stages, an Eggman one if I recall, you see Egg Pawns fighting off both GUN and Black Arms, it was really damn good, I also like the fact they as soon as Shadow appeared they all focused him. The whole thing felt like a battlefield.

I always insist that Shadow the Hedgehog is a pretty good game which is laughed at as a meme. I don't get the "terrible level design" since it's basically SA1 and 2 with multiple objectives. I think the objectives are worst than the levels themselves. The game could have been better, and the story is also fantastic Faggots tend to call it Ow the Edge because they think is only about Shadow doing edgy things, but the game is actually about Shadow learning not to be edgy.

Dynasty Warriors was similar except in the "true ending" part. Nowadays they try to make all sides look "equal" doesn't change that Shu is the most retarded faction despite being the supposed heroes

shit game.
shit controls.
shit missions.
shit camera.
shit level design.
his personality isn't the issue

Whatever, user. Shadow is basically SA1 and 2 Sonic/Shadow controls plus guns and melee. There's literally no fucking difference.

wooah wooow
wooah wooow
wooah YEAH
wooah woow
woooah woow
wooah YEAH
wooah woow
wooah woow
wooah YEAH

oh YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
oh YEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
YEHEEAAAH

The controls are god awful though, I love the game, but don't act like it doesn't have flaws.

Yeah, that's the problem. 18 years later and I still don't get why anyone liked Adventure.

It has the same kind of thing, "Black side" (with Max) and White side (with Leo) and a final boss that you unlock after playing through both.

But MUH FAN CASTLE.

profile name IMEVIL and you get the dark campaign right away. useful for replays if you don't care for the light campaign. both were solid in my experience

They were. The light campaign was a pretty straightforward action adventure game, with some light platforming and puzzle solving thrown in. The dark campaign was a lot less forgiving and had more traps, but more than made up for it with wacky levels like the Winchester mansion full of spike pits and bladed pendulums.

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All the Sonic games between Adventure and Unleashed did this in a way. Not always with morality, but always with multiple characters and stories that end up converging at the end. Sonic Unleashed did it closest gameplay wise, since it was only two characters and their levels were all unique (unlike Heroes). But then that's not about morality. Only Shadow had morality, and that was branching paths. Sonic '06 isn't strictly morality, but it is three different perspectives with different and opposing goals (or at least Silver is directly opposing the others). But then you could easily say this is more like Sonic Adventure but with half as many characters.

Original Megatron was pure evil though. Just sometimes there were threats that covered both he and his opponents, and we got lots of team ups. Hell, almost all the Decepticons hate each other but team up only out of their shared goal of beating the Autobots, with the understanding that they'll kill each other later. In the original comics (which Beast Wars is a sequel to, not the cartoon) Megatron isn't even the leader like half the time because he's always overthrown by Shockwave or Skorpinok or occasionally Starscream.

The first and last info posts have the same ID. So did the middle one, which I know, because I made those posts. The ones in the middle have different IDs. Changing IDs is doable, but I don't know how to get an old ID back. Cool to see someone capped that shit.

Shadow wanted very much to destroy the whole world. Eggman just wanted to rule it. Rouge is the only one who had antihero motives the whole time.

This, only I do agree it has worse level design, especially compared to Adventure 2. It's not a bad game, but nothing compares to Adventure 2's level design, and Adventure 1 gets by not on level design, but on actual adventure game shit like exploring the overworld and finding secrets. The Action Stage level design isn't amazing. Shadow probably does have better level design than Adventure 1.

Those fags are largely inspired by the Archie comics, which are somehow even more autistic than the games, largely made by a guy who proudly didn't play the games and didn't even read issues of the comic written by people other than him. Most games were never adapted or otherwise close to canon until a reboot a couple years ago finally got rid of all the DA stuff and just said the games were canon (plus the original two cartoons, where they could fit).

It was a lot slower than SA2 for some reason.

StH and Heros both had the issue of being too slow and gating you into annoying combat situations.
As well as having generic and uninspired stages made with a block-based level editor.

StH also had very shitty visuals with its gritty, grainy, gray textures on most of the stages, and the awkward plot felt more unfinished than SA2 and beating the game left you with a weird feeling. SA1 had the same issue with the plot, it felt surreal, unfinished, but also depressing in a weird way.

Heroes and Shadow both suffered for giving enemies multiple hit points. Just generally a bad idea for a fast paced platformer. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 got by just fine when all enemies only took one hit. So did all the Genesis games.

But I strongly disagree on your opinions of the plots. SA2 has one of the weaker plots. SA1 and Shadow have much more complex plots that are also cool because they are told in very interesting ways (intertwining paths/alternate stories that each contain canon information), and wrap up plots that had been going on for the previous few games (S2, 3&K, Chaotix, and Adventure are one story arc. SA2, Heroes, Advance 2, Battle, Advance 3, and Shadow are another arc, with '06 as a kind of epilogue). Beating each one gives you the feeling that you finished a story you'd been playing for the last bunch of games. Even if you hadn't played the last bunch, especially in the case of Adventure, it's especially cool how everything comes together in the end, with lots of details and sub plots (including a lot you won't even notice if you don't explore the Adventure Field thoroughly).

Ugh, yeah, forgot about that. The comics started out alright, then turned horrible.

Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog had the best Robotnick voice actor though. I wish he were still alive.

The comics are good now. Since the first Mega Man crossover they've been fantastic. But starting from like issue 12 or whenever they started trying to have a story, all the way to like 250, they were just garbage. They got significantly better and became respectable garbage when the current writer took over at like 170, but he was still just trying to put lipstick on a pig, and the comic was still operating with shit characters and a shit world and shit backstory and shit lore.

Yeah, as the brother of someone really autistic about Transformers, and slightly autistic about it myself, it was vague at best and leaned towards the cartoon a little more with Unicron's giant floating head and Starscream's ghost. That having been said, they left it intentionally vague as to with G1 canon it descended from, especially at the very end of Beast Wars when Simon Furman came on to help write those episodes and dropped some sick references to Primus. Beast Wars is still great though, definitely in the top three animated Transformers series (although the only stiff competition is Animated and Prime sometimes).

what did he mean by this?
It's Jack and he's the Red Side. You don't ever play as Max and there is no Black side, unless there's extra shit I somehow missed.

Which is weird because apparently in the comics right now he's reformed. He had some kind of revelation and realized he'd lost sight of his original noble intention forming the Decepticons and is now an Autobot.

IDW's been fucked since Windblade happened. Seriously, the only good thing to come from that is Nautica, and even that was too much of a price to pay. At this point only the C-story by James Roberts is even worth paying attention to, and I'm not sure it's actually any good. Especially since that's where Megatron has been for a while now.

Liu Bei did nothing wrong.

Reminder that Sonic Heroes & shadOW THE hEDGEhog isn't underrated and are actually good games

Remember that the movie had a comic adaptation, it just still takes place in the future and the main series of comics never went past the '80s. Luckily the movie has so little plot that it doesn't really contradict anything that the comics did later.

IDW is shit and everything after Beast Machines is shit. Original continuity 4 life.

Good is Subjective dog.

I love both of those games but we shouldn't act like there aren't legit criticisms against them.

The problem with the three factions thing is that they do not discriminate against your actions. You could kill all the GUN soldiers in the level and the ayy lmaos will still attack you, even if the floating eyeball is following you.

I accidentally rented it once back in the day. Some blockbuster fag put it with Shadow of the Colossus and I grabbed it by mistake.
It was pretty shit tbh fam. I returned it after maybe two hours and got what I actually wanted.

That's not how I remember the story going.

I thought it was Hero vs Dark. Doesn't say either of them has to be good or evil. Pretty sure they were both justified Yes even Robotnik because GUN fucked his grandpa and several innocents over hard

Why do we keep having so many Sonic Adventure threads? Is this a sign of a mostly young userbase?

son, sonic adventure came out almost 20 years ago. adventure 2 battle came out in 2001.

Except that would only justify his actions against GUN, and even then, only against those who either made the orders or carried them out.

Halo 2, I guess, if not for the cut ending.

Why hasn't someone tried to remaster this?

Kessen II did this too. Cao Cao was the edgelord bad guy, but when you finish the Shu campaign you get a fantastic Wei one too.

Are you talking about Ken Penders? All I know about him is that he'll sue everyone and they added him in for that repainted version of SA2.

Ultimate Spider-man did it I think.

If you ignore this part.

Oh yes, I didn't finish this one, but I could take a wild guess that's gonna happen.

read this

By destroying the whole world? Why not just GUN? Besides, most of the people he should be taking vengeance against, the GUN of that time who issued the order to raid the ARK, are more than likely dead now.

Because he's an angsty teenager mentally.

Megatron murdering everyone in the movie was a funny exception to the rule specifically because of shenanigans between the writers and Hasbro.
As I understand it, it was because of the GI Joe cartoon that was running at the same time: Hasbro kept nagging the showrunners to stop spending so much time on characters whose toys weren't being sold anymore, and to introduce new toys. The writers refused, because the characters in question (Duke especially) were the central characters of the show, and if they disappeared without explanation, all the kids would complain. So, when they got The Movie, and had a PG-13 rating, someone had the genius idea to actually kill Duke as part of the storyline.
Hasbro LOVED this idea - and in fact, loved it so much that they told the Transformers writers to kill off ALL the characters whose toys were no longer selling - hence the total carnage at the start of the movie.
Ironically, kids were so traumatized by Optimus Prime dying (and Hasbro was so traumatized by parents' angry letters) that they told the GI Joe guys not to kill Duke after all - which was awkward since it was already animated. (They ended up half-assedly dubbing it over to make him seem… less dead.)

But yes, G1 Megatron has pretty much always been a fairly clear cut bad guy - which is part of why it's fun to play on his team once in awhile.

The theory I still stand by is that Beast Wars WAS in the comic timeline, but the actions of the characters damaged history so much that it created the cartoon timeline. (Ravage, especially, was absolutely written as he was in the comics, to such a degree that I now imagine all his comic dialogue being delivered in that edgy Russian accent.)

How did the Beast Wars game play, anyway? That would have been an excellent place to use the good/evil parallel storyline system this thread is talking about.

God I hate the morality system of the infamous games. It was either "be the good guy" or "be a dick". There was no lawful evil.

That's not true though. The side you're working for does support you. I think you can get everyone against you if you just go around killing everyone, but if you avoid one side and kill the other, then the side you're helping will help you.

It's the same organization, they're still in power and haven't owned up to their actions or anything. Nowhere is it acknowledged that it was wrong to kill all those people. They act like it's sad that Maria died, but don't acknowledge that it was GUN who did it. Eggman's actions are only to free the world from GUN. If there is any collateral damage, that's war for you.

Wait what? Ken Penders is in Sonic Adventure 2: Battle? Or the HD Remake? That can't be right.

Eggman doesn't want to destroy the world. Sometimes he threatens to shoot it with a giant space laser and blow it up, but that's a different thing in the Sonic universe. He does it at the beginning of Unleashed, and other than an evil god escaping from the center of the earth, everything is still fine, only Eggman manages to free a whole continent from GUN's iron fist and finally create Eggmanland, until Sonic ruins it.

GUN also held Shadow without trial for 50 years, and when he escaped, arrested Sonic, who had saved the world dozens of times by this point, because they were too stupid to tell the difference. Then they chase him with a gigantic truck and smash up a large part of Central City, wantonly smashing any cars in their way, and running over Big the Cat. And in the altered timeline in Generations, the truck is covered in giant buzzsaws.

GUN is clearly still evil.

InFamous 2 tries to make it so the evil side is still morally ambiguous. Like at least they try to show actual motivations for what you're doing, even though it's evil. I wouldn't say it's "be a dick."

InFamous 1's morality system is practically not there. Just a tiny little component that gives you different moves based on your gameplay style. Not the worst thing but doesn't exactly make a huge difference.

Where did the time go? It still feels like its 2008~ to me

Well, do you have a better explanation for Adou's stupidity?

Black side was Jack's campaign, white side was Leo's, red side was the ending with Jack fighting Leo and Nikolai. He mixed up Max and Jack.

Still waiting on that Dynasty Warriors game that brings up his accidental cannibalism.

Anyone know best way to replay SA and SA2 on pc?

Also what is the best Sonic Series that is tolerable for an adult? Thanks.

Nothing wrong except his constant fucking losing. He had a 'title' at the time which translates to "The general of infinite defeats"

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No. They don't. They shoot you on sight regardless of abstaining from murder and shoot you on sight regardless of who you have killed or not killed.

Another grievance was that StH really only had pistols and automatic weapons in the first damn level, everything else after that were goofy alien weaponry and Eggman toys.
The whole appeal of firearms in a Sonic game was a ruse.

And like the other anons have said, just as in Heroes, SA 1 and 2, the very little sense of speed in the game is held down from redundant and boring combat gating.

The ONLY things Sonic ever got right in its long history of absolutely shitty games was a few of the Sonic levels in Sa2. Specifically, the City Trial level and that Ocean Base one.

Autism and Autistic Sonic fans.
How have you not realized this yet?

The modders just released a Dreamcast conversion/Palette mod which changed DX's ugly and aging graphics and artstyle into something more colorful and the unique artstyle and dynamic colors from the Dreamcast port. Also you should try the Character select mod and Physics swapper for slower and stiff characters like Amy. For SA2, get the Character select mod also, but it's mostly for playing the 2P chracters and you don't switch on the go. But the Physics swapper really helped make Tails more tolerable to control when I made his physics similar to Gamma's faster and versatile physics.

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There is youtube series where a group of people replace textures, subtitles, music and all other stuff with random bullshit and memes, then play through it. Their "repainted" version of SA2 featured Robotnik being retextured as Ken Penders.

File playing the story from different perspectives under "things that are neat"

I don't think that happens a lot, but It's neat when the story works with it. A good writer could maybe play jigsaw puzzle with story details.

Personally I liked the treasure-hunting stages best. It was a great way of building a goal around Knuckle's abilities.

I never liked how 3D Sonic Gameplay went with old-fashioned "get to the goal" objectives. Really should have taken more notes from Mario 64 and re-used environments. Maybe go a little more "skate park" with it.

Ow the edge strikes me as a case of "good ideas, bad execution." If it wasn't hastily thrown together It'd be pretty great. More than a few of the objectives were clunky and unfun. I think collecting 400 rings or so was the one I hated most.

You're trying to attribute a deeper plot than the writers even tried to give SA2. Contain your autism. You're getting as bad as Sparky.

You should've finished that one. It's a good one.

The closest thing I can think of that lets you ACTUALLY be the bad guy is Overlord II

Naw, I have the game. I played it not all the way through, as it's not good enough recently. Just go try the first level. If you just go around killing aliens, GUN won't shoot at you and you get to hear dialogue that you wouldn't hear otherwise.

Except SA 1 and 2 didn't have "combat gating" as they still had one hit kills for every enemy. It was Heroes and Shadow that gave them multiple hit points and slowed things down.

All the stuff I said is confirmed in game. The only thing is that the writers never thought about the moral implications of GUN killing all those people on the ARK, they just treated it like it was okay even though they also confirm that Gerald and the other scientists were purely altruistic and in fact saved the world until GUN got in the way.

you forgot

crying out loud, the bitch acted like a Ferengi.

humans > furries in video game form

>no moronity morality system

Stop looking for gratification, they were the beginning of Sonic's downfall with the focus on CGI cutscenes, damage sponges, uninspired enemy designs, bad loading times, resusing assets and god forbid if you played the PS2 versions

They were certainly nowhere as near as good as the previous games, so you could say they were the beginning of the downfall in that regard, but the point is they're alright, and the hate for them is exaggerated.

Here, have the sound version.

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It's a pretty easy game, though. And the guy obviously meant plot wise he wanted it to be more accessible. Although that still makes no sense because Heroes' plot has more to do with Adventure 2 than Adventure 2 has to do with Adventure 1. Heroes has less of a plot than them, but that plot is predicated on not only stuff that happened in Adventure 2, but stuff that happened in goddamn Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix.