Nipponese Learning Thread: 頑張って Edition

Fucking love that game.

I can't learn Japanese

You CAN learn Japanese

Threadly reminder

But why?

As silly as this video is, he actually has excellent sword technique.

What would you have used?

You can. Fucking make her your bitch.

Ah, I don't know, probably something more traditional looking, like maybe the fifth one from the top, although the sixth one looks pretty good, too. Your font looks too bold and flat for my tastes. I need some curvature.

I actually have to agree. He does have pretty damn good technique

カタカナ won't really give many curves regardless of what font you use. Here's the font with ひらがな and one of the few kanji it supports.

...

She looks like my tranny friend

Shouldn't that be 分かかねる? Or maybe 覚えかねる?

It should be 分かられない or 分かることができない. So by dropping the "ことが" it's a more polite version that got chopped in the heat of the moment.

Also isn't the nuance for "兼ねる" that you're unable to do it because of things holding you back mentally? Like if you were to say "納豆を食べかねる", you can physically eat it, but you can't bring yourself to do it. While "出来ない" was like a proper impossibility. If you've broken your leg, then "運動ができない".
I could be totally wrong, so please correct me if I am.

It really is. It just that it would look a lot more elegant with a rolled straw mat.

Oh yeah, I guess you're right.

Do you recognize all the kanji on this list? I knew the majority of them, with a few exceptions. Feels pretty good to be able to recognize them immediately. The anki reps really do work.

I find the comic a bit confusing. But わかる is by itself kind of like a potential form verb by default. You don't need to, and it sounds odd to use わかられる to say 'understand' because that's already the meaning of わかる alone. Also わかる is an intransitive verb so you'd use が not を. So 日本語がわからない would be better than what's in the comic.

If you were going to shorten 分かることができない you'd probably just say できない alone, dropping only the middle sounds weird.

Will learning Japanese finally give me the answer to the question: Who would win in a fight, a Knight or a Samurai?

Yeah, those are all simple. This is the kind of kanji I'm up to these days.

...

With or without armor? Samurai usually fought on horseback with a bow and weren't using their swords on the battlefield very often. That was more so for self defense, duels, and ceremony.

You deserve your suffering.

Bump. Does anyone know how to make anki show you new cards at the end of all your review cards? It's currently set up so that it shows new cards in between review cards. I don't mind, I guess, but things would go much smoother for me if I could have them all consolidated at the end.

Choose custom review, select due cards. When done, do the same but select new cards.

I prefer them mixed in because it reduces your brain priming your reading with "this is a card I know" or "this is a card I don't know." You don't have that sort of crutch when you're reading these words out in the wild.

Good point, though I never considered it a crutch. When anki introduces new words, I immediately write them out a shit ton of times in my notebook, and if I get through 30 words that I already know, then get introduced a new word, I have to stop and write that word out for 10 or so minutes, and it breaks up my flow. I want to do the reviews and then grind out the new cards at the end only so I can focus on either one of the other.

Noted. Cheers, user.

Studying them separately is a lot easier imo. If you're putting in the time and reps then all cards will eventually become known, this "crutch" will only exist for maybe

皆さん，がんばってね！

The OP has all you need to get started, but I feel like I've picked up as much incorrect information and bad habits from actually participating in the thread as I have good advice.

I don't think there are any native speakers here, so it's best to take any advice with a grain of salt. That's why I prefer not to converse in Japanese in these threads, you could be doing it totally wrong and chances are nobody will be able to correct you.

What are the words for "how much" and "blowjob?"

Asking for a friend.

I find the problem is I usually get at least 4 corrections that are all completely different from one another.

What about u-verbs with non-/u/ vowel sounds?

OP knows what he's talking about

I lived in Japan for about 15 years, and learned the kanas before I learned vocabulary. This helps immensely with pronunciation, as you will view Japanese words as the Japanese see them, instead of reading them like some Gaijin sperg. "Ko N Ni Chi Wa" instead of the typical "konichwa" you hear from most gaijin. Kanji should be studied along with vocabulary. Practice in order in the same way the Japanese school children learn. A great resource I used was "A Japanese Reader". It takes a while to go through it, but it really helps with learning Kanji and grammar.

But all verbs end in u…

Japanese school children already know the spoken language, so we have to approach it a bit differently.

All verbs end in a U-sound.
くぐ
うつる
ぬむぶ
す
There is a rare exception that I can't remmeber, but it only applies to words I think

I'm talking specifically about Kanji. Learning them in the proper order is helpful when getting the more advanced Kanji.

What the hell is the kanji between 人and 死?

Thanks!

Looks like nihongo.monash.edu/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1MMJ内

Probably 肉

It's 間, you learn it in your first week/month of classes. Jesus.

間 isn't written with the 冂 radical, like that clearly is.

Apply yourself or get a better fucking tutor.

ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/略字#.E5.85.B7.E4.BD.93.E4.BE.8B

I know Kana by heart, but I don't understand what I'm reading most of the time.

How do I actually learn to understand it?
Is there a way to learn a spoken language without signing up for shit?

alright, how do you know that the words that you're reading now are actual words and not just an arrangement of random letters? The simple answer is that you've spent a long time learning each specific word and its usage. You've trained your brain to automatically recognize every word in this sentence. If I wrote sdgsrgjsrdhsedgntyaebhsdgnserthaeb you automatically know that this is just a random assortment of letters, and if Iwrotewordstogetherlikethiswithoutanyspacesyoudstillhavesomeabilitytoreadthembecauseyoucanrecognizeeachwordandyouunderstandwherethespacesshouldbe

In short, you have to learn words that are commonly written in kana only, and learn their kanji, so that you can begin to train yourself to see those patterns when they arise. How do you learn words? You study vocabulary. Grind anki.

Wasn't aware of kanji abbreviations, thanks user. No need to be an asshole though.

As if I needed any more convincing this writing system is shit.

The asshole thing to do would be to leave the thread and not even tell you people what ryakuzi is.

The shitton of irregular readings and exceptions make it shit. Ryakuzi is harmless.

Say I have a month without practicing and I want to review everything in Anki. I know there's a review function on Anki, but there's a way to reset all my progress or something?

vid related

...

I'll just do the reviews, then.

...

atugiri Jason a shit

But what about the raifuru?

...

user, listen, radicals aren't really all that important. I mean, they can be useful, especially when you're looking up kanji you don't know, and I suppose if you studied them extensively, you'd have an easier time recognizing kanji that use them, but you should really just study vocabulary because you'll learn a number of the more common radicals through that alone.

Vocabulary?
So where should I go check it out?

Is a tutor worth it for a beginner? There's one (a native speaker) where I live.

For a beginner? Unless you're the kind of person who can't self-motivate without paying someone, no. There are many, MANY free tools to learn the basics. I would only recommend a native-level tutor for people close to native-level mastry.

I'm trying to translate a kamen wider song. At one point it sayd "Chou-Henshin" which means super transformation. I know henshin is 変身, but what about the chou part?
It would be 長変身?

It apparently is 超変身.

超

Learning meanings is easy, but readings are hard. For those, it turns out it's easier to make mnemonic devices from the definition rather than the characters themselves. Is this okay, or will it fuck me over when it comes time to read shit like … ateji?

Don't learn readings.

Is that a legit advice? In a precious thread I asked the same thing and got a similar question, but I also got that learning vocab means both the meaning of the symbol and the pronunciation. Say, I can recognize the symbol I see fairly quickly, but I have a hard time memorizing the pronunciation. My study time would be cut in half if I only memorized the meaning, but I would be reading meanings, not the language itself.
Say, it's common sense that, if 今 means "now" then 今日 means "Today". However, 今 is pronounced "Ima" while 今日 is pronounced "Kyou", and that's fucking retarded. I just need the symbol to know what they mean, however, I'd like to read them as they're pronounced in my mind.

Japanese is seriously a retarded language and the only reason I keep going is for the sweet vidya waiting for me on the other side.

In a previous thread I asked the sane thing and got a similar answer I'm tired

Readings refer to the on'yomi and kunyomi. pronunciation means the difference between 今 and 今日. Make sure we're clear on this
Readings = on'yomi and kunyomi
Meanings = what the specific arrangement of symbols mean (友達 means friend)
Pronunciations = how to say specific words (友達 is pronounced ともだち or "tomodachi")

If you don't know what on and kunyomi are, then go read about it. There are plenty of resources in the OP. In fact, here: kanjidamage.com/kanji_facts read this entire page.

It's weird that Tae Kim doesn't mention anything about, or at least on half of the book. Will read that since it looks amusing and informative. I really didn't want to trust Kanji Damage because I keep hearing that mnemonics are a meme.

Mnemonics are pretty much the only way you are going to be able to reliably remember kanji, or at least kanji writing. Just reading is considerably easier.

God dammit, user, mnemonics are not a meme. A mnemonic is just a mental device that you use to help you remember things. For example, in Zelda: Ocarina of Time, inside the Deku Tree, there's this bitch ass scrub that tries to shoot his nuts at you and then hides in his bushes when you get close. You have to bounce his nuts back at him with your shield so that said nuts hit him in the face. When you defeat him, he gives you some advice for defeating his brothers who are somewhere deeper in the dungeon. He says, "if you want to defeat them, you have to attack them in the proper order. That order is 2, 3, 1. Twenty-three is number one". Now, by itself, twenty-three is number one could be used to remember this simple sequence of numbers, but if you associate the number 23 with Micheal Jordan, whose jersey number is 23 and who is well known for being number one at basketball, then it'll be much easier for you to recall that sequence of numbers, especially if you make a point of using that mental device to remember them.

Whoever says mnemonics is a meme is retarded. It's a very good way to first learn shit. Over time as you start to know more vocab and kanji it's easier to remember stuff without them because you have those links in your brain. For example, 水平 means "level"; you can remember it by knowing the kanji "water" and "flat", or that often words relating to flat/level/averaged things contain 平. But until you have that knowledge base to pull from using a mnemonic like "That's on the [level], {sweet, hey?}" is a good crutch to lean on.

And it's not like training wheels on a bike where you grow dependent on them. Over time you start to naturally know the words/kanji without need for the mnemonic and eventually the mnemonic itself fades from your memory. Over half the kanji I learned I can't remember for the life of me what story/phrase I used to learn them.
All the anons saying they're a meme seem to be coming from the angle that if you use them they slow you down and you become dependent on them, when that's really not true.

Very true. It's the same for me.

That's quite informative. I've never even thought about Radicals as letters, and although I've been noticing the symbolic meanings behind some kanji in compounds, I didn't know it was a thing.

That explanation was so retarded that I will remember it for quite sometime. You're right. However, the other user that insisted that mnemonics are a meme meant that relying on those kind of mental deices is a bad habit that might make you slow while learning sooner or later, and I agree, since you have to pause to think about the whole thing instead of just drilling it in your head.
I'd be fine with mnemonics with any other thing like remembering codes, but we're talking about a whole language. Sure you'd probably get better later, but I'm guessing it would be hard getting rid of the mnemonic habit once you learn.

That explanation doesn't sound like a mnemonic, more like a quirk of the language, which I have been noticing and makes a lot of sense. I jumped straight to 2k/6k core, but I guess I should give Kanji Damage a try.

I can guarantee that they're not some crazy bad habit that fucks you over when thinking of the word. I can't think of any time in Nipland where I was talking to someone and froze mid-sentence while I went through the story of "King Joe, biggest pimp in my neighbourhood" to remember 近所 means "neighbourhood". If anything I only need to remember "King Joe" because from there my brain instantly leaps to 近所.
And if you can't remember it without retelling the whole mnemonic, then you don't know the word well enough yet to be using it in conversation anyway.
You're only slowing yourself down by insisting on using the stairs for fear the escalator will make you an invalid.

I wish Anki had a feature where you could use a shortcut to flip through fonts either in a sequential list or at random from a list.

So how do I even start about how to a kanji deck? It seems really daunting and it has been putting me off. At the very least I'm going to start now by only bothering to learn the meanings. I can always reset the deck and start again for readings or is that dumb?

4u bigaijins uguuu~

JUST DO IT
Don't put it off. Grab the Core 2k/6k, or whatever deck you're using, and make a point of doing it. It'll only get easier the more you do it.
No. Don't do that. When you see a Kanji, you should learn how to write that shit properly, you should learn its meaning, and you should learn the pronunciation all at once. What's the point of trying to focus on only one aspect? You're just making more work for yourself in the long run. Furthermore, you already know the meanings in English, and in whatever other languages you speak, so you don't need to relearn those; you just need to associate the Kanji's pronunciation and appearance with those meanings. Radicals can help with this, you may want to study those for a bit, and making mnemonics can help you memorize things. I mostly just grind anki and I'll only make mnemonics for words that I'm having a hard time remembering, or when I get two words confused.

In short, in my opinion, the order of importance in regards to comprehension is: auditory and visual recognition > pronunciation > writing. If you can see a kanji and know what it means, but you don't remember how to say it, then you're half way there. If you can see a kanji and know how to say it, then you should already know what it means, and by extension, you should be able to hear its pronunciation and recognize it without seeing the kanji in front of you (with the exception of homophones). Writing is a separate skill entirely, and I do recommend that you learn how to do that, too, but it's not really going to aid your comprehension beyond allowing you to better remember the components of each individual kanji.

Finally, I'm not a fucking expert, I'm learning just like you, so don't assume I'm speaking from some authoritative position. If you doubt yourself, go research and read many perspectives about the topic you're unsure about.

When you say, don't learn readings, do you mean I should ignore the pronunciation when doing anki reps?

I understand now why people who have been in these threads are jaded as fuck and display a general agitation every time someone asks a question. Read

Most people in the thread will recommend not learning the readings of kanji with just the kanji. That readings should be learned through or together with vocabulary.

I agree that readings should be learned in the context of vocabulary. It's much more likely to stick if you have a word to associate the reading with.

You definitely should be learning pronunciation (vocabulary) as you learn kanji. They'll each help you remember the other better.

I do like to review kanji with readings personally, however most don't advocate doing so and it's by no means necessary. Always initially learned them with vocabulary though.

This term causes too much damn confusion. When you say readings, you're referring to the on and kunyomi. You should just say that, because it's more specific and it clears up any contention anyone may have with what you're saying. I used to use "readings" to refer to simply how you say a word, but apparently you, and others, don't use it like that.

I think we're pretty much in agreement. I'm not telling people they should waste time trying to learn the on and kunyomi for each and every kanji without the context of words. I am saying they should use vocabulary to naturally and gradually build an understanding about when on and kun are used and why.

Add this to your list.
kanji-link.com/en/kanji/radicals/

I just discovered Anki's sync feature. I always figured it was some paid feature until today. "Maybe it only syncs your cards and not your media," I thought. So I tried it out. Now it's uploading my media. "Maybe there's a hard limit and it will stop partway through," I thought. It just finished. All 272 MB of it. There's apparently no limit implemented. Now I feel bad.

I did Heisig's RTK first and then started on core 2k/6k. You may skip Heisig if you'd like (it's a pretty long undertaking for no immediate reward), but I find learning vocab easier now since I can recognize what most words mean. Pronunciation is a bit tough though.

I'm already recognizing some radicals.
Remembering how to read them is something I haven't got.
At least I'm "half way" there, right?

Anyone know where I can watch raw anime and dramas?
Subs are distracting.

nyaa

Just turn off the subs then?

Yeah, pretty much every anime is soft-subbed these days.

hello i've studied for 6 odd years and lived there briefly ask me any questions and i'll give you any help i can

sukebei.nyaa.se

torrent raws

never use subs they're shit anyway

にちは、このニッガら
日本語の四年生で、何でも尋ねてもなんでもいい
すなわち
＞活用し方とか
＞発音の磨き方とか
＞ましな勉強し方とか
など

写真見せてくれ

CAN'T

So what's a good way to get into grammar? So far, I've been skimming Tae Kim and IMABI, and although I've grasped some basic understanding, I still feel unsure about formulating sentences. I grind anki every single fucking day, so I'm gitting gud at kanji, but without a basis in grammar it's like I've got a shit ton of puzzle pieces in front of me but no way to put them together.

写真がなかったら起こったなかった。

it's my firm belief that you need to understand grammar on an immediate level, an academic understanding of exactly why you use で and に after something is worthless, even native speakers don't know.

for grammar you need huge continual exposure, which watching raws and reading raw manga can provide easily. i recommend manga specifically because the pictures leave visual contextual material to help you understand it.

you could try books too sure, apparently the greatest way to understand a language is to read a book over and over again. don't worry about kanji, studying kanji in isolation means nothing because you're playing memory games and not developing the rounded multi-fronted understand you need. learn by reading

if you know the meaning of 2000 kanji but don't know any of the compound words they're in it's meaningless despite what anki autists tell you

i dunno what you're saying lol

The best way to into grammar is to do a simple method I call "left-right"
In reality, it doesn't really matter which side either thing takes place on; the one your eye falls through to first is the one you should put the grammar on

You niggas asked for it

もう死にたい

pics or it didn't happen?

soz man ending makes no sense lol

i'd say maybe 写真が見せてくれないなら怒るぞ

nah wait

みせてくれなかったら

polite sage for multipost

Good catch

It's an old meme that user tried to literally translate
knowyourmeme.com/memes/pics-or-it-didnt-happen.

でも、その解釈と英語のミームが全然違うよ。

yeah me too. you seem to know your shit man have you been over there yet?

i loved it myself it was better than i imagined lol

Some people go to kissanime.ru or gogoanime.io.

日本に行けばいいのに…
Nah, never gone, but I've been studying for such a long time, seen so many things, and met so many people, it's almost like I have…
and that's why my name is now Kenichi

Those people should be gassed anyway.

I feel like I'm the only person learning Japanese with no interest in actually going there.

you should go it validated years of study for me. normalfags can't into language so they can't actually enjoy other cultures at all

You totally should. Even my lowly level is enough to get drunk and chat with all the locals at every izakaya I went to. Or the cute girl at the ramen museum bored out of her mind helping customers with the ordering machine.
Probably helps that Japs think their language is just as hard as we do; so their bar for entry is super low in that regard.

what you probably want to achieve then is being able to understand movies, anime and whatever

the answer is unironically watching all that without subtitles

People are lazy and would rather stream videos online than torrent.

b-but I've been using the core2k/6k deck, and it's just vocabulary, which means I'm killing two birds with one stone by learning words picking up on stuff like onyomi and kunyomi. That's not worthless, right?

So, you're saying, on the right sheet of paper I'd write something grammar function, like "XはYです", and then on the left I'd make a bunch of sentences with that? But what if my sentences are wrong? It's not like I have any way of checking them for accuracy.
the water is warm
the water is cold
the snow is white
the apple is sweet

As far as I know, those are all grammatically correct, but assuming they aren't, how the fuck am I supposed to check myself and correct my usage?

Is that why I hate nu-males and wymmin? Yes, that is why.

You ever tried listening to Ghost in the Shell in Japanese? The uber-specific all-Sino terms (ie governmental or scientific terms) just fly by you like a fucking bullet.

Well that part we can't help you with, user.

i'll have to come up with an easy listening list lol.

it would be mostly audiobooks

Slice of life, romance, and moeshit anime is pretty easy. I've been rewatching Kanon without subs lately.

Dude, if you have any recommendations please share them. I need some shit to listen to in the car that isn't stupid hard and isn't fucking NHK news segments that only last 10mins.

I find Legend of the Galactic Heroes similar. Like I need subtitles for that one hard.

You can't be lazier than me and you have no excuse, faggot.

like the guy said above, slice of life or thematically day-to-day animes are fantastic. they don't require specific contextual words and are generally fun to listen to or watch

the problem with comedy however is that comedy plays on the nuances of culture which you don't need, slice of life plays on that contantly

use radio or somesuch

Ok, off to nyaa then.

I'd probably say to just try out simple songs with notable, familiar vocabulary, like stuff from Sakamoto Kyu, or Uematsu Nobuo. J-pop and whatnot are too high-pitched and quick to catch (for a beginner, or a half-deaf person like me)

Oh, I mean an automatic RSS downloader.
qbittorrent has one.

hey what's the difference between 夕食　and 夕飯?

Nothing, but… YOU WROTE THE SECOND WROOOOOOONG
But for serious the first is ゆうしょく and the second is ゆうごはん which is actually supposed to be written 夕ご飯

the shocking reality is there might not be a difference

Also listening to Nip music is good too.

well then why the fuck do they need two words to write dinner/evening meal?
hey I'm just writing it how anki showed it to me

Found this by searching "夕食と夕飯の違い" in google:
hinative.com/ja/questions/241255

Seems 夕飯 is just a generally older term. So they mean the same thing, one's just more in-fashion.
When I was in Japan I was talking with someone and she corrected be on saying 昨夜 instead of 昨日の夜. While it means the same thing, the former just isn't really used as much these days.

music is so interesting. even a native speaker can mistake it for anything. look up countless youtube misinterpreted videos to see it.

music is a classic example of the failing of language itself, or a success if you like it

music is horrible for language learning, never never NEVER use it for that

I've heard plenty of people use "さくや", what the hell is this "きのうのよる" bullshit

Is this good?

I second this, anki showed me 昨夜　and 夕べ and 昨日, but I haven't heard of きのうのよる. Maybe I'm just stupid gaijin.

Might have been a regional thing. I don't know if she got outside Tokyo a lot.
I mean we say "fortnight" all the time here in Australia but Americans seem to act as though the word's some weird arcane bullshit akin to "verily".

with an entire 2 minutes of my time i was able to determine

that git gud i mean they're talking like they normally would understand it or don't

what the fuck man I messed up my damn characters, using google IME is just as bad as using a god damned cellphone's predictive text. I hate it.

This girl's website is in the OP, you can go there and see all these videos

hey, so, in the core2k/6k deck, I've come across a huge number of words that are written in only hiragana. Words like かなり, ちゃんと, とても, おいしい, まずい, and a bunch more. Do these words have kanji? Are there words that aren't loan words that are made only with kana?

there's such a thing as dated kanji use

sometimes people don't use it at all for words

i have never seen a character for totemo

Yeah. There's plenty of common little words that don't have associated kanji. Or they do have kanji but they've stopped using them for so long that even some natives would have no idea what the original kanji were.
I find they're often colloquialisms or adverbs. So like とても or さっさ. Then shit like そこ is technically 其処, but nobody uses it anymore like said.

The only one of those often written in kanji is おいしい, which is 美味しい

バンプ～

出口はあそこです。

Can this be used to tell someone to get out?

I dunno if Japanese employs sarcasm in the same way as English.

出て行け is more direct.

Isn't everything in Japanese implied? Meaning, they don't outright tell you, "man, you're a fucking fatass, you should lose some weight" and instead drop hints like, "you sure like to eat" or they poke you in the stomach or something, right?

ここから出て行け！ストーカー！

ストーカーじゃないよ…

This is all you need:

alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/all-japanese-all-the-time-ajatt-how-to-learn-japanese-on-your-own-having-fun-and-to-fluency/

Avoid textbooks and grammar memorization like the plague. That is not how you learn a language.

You can't not learn Japanese.

Thanks user.

b-but what if I'm having fun with textbooks and grammar memorization?

dekiruchan is gonna rape you in your sleep tonight

Immersion is best once you have a solid foundation to start from. It'll just be frustrating before then.

This is page after page of mindless rambling.

I've pretty much summed up his entire 1000page website.

The layout of the dude's website is aids

Here's a summary: quora.com/In-a-nutshell-what-is-the-All-Japanese-All-the-Time-method-of-Japanese-language-learning

Why

Why not?

Not necessarily limited to Nip learning,
but I absolutely suck at studying. I can't do any school work at all in my free time and just keep shitting around on my computer and never start. I get antsy sitting down merely wanting to do something productive.
Any advice?

Discipline is a muscle. You don't use it, it atrophies, then you have to build it up from nothing again.

I-I cant do this I'm giving up even if I do my a-accent will be terrible

...

So is 2ch really any fun? If it is, might be worth learning moonrunes.

Just keep at it. I was the same way, I never studied or did homework in school, but now I study Nip every day.

I don't like the layout. It's not an imageboard so it's easy to get lost in the sea of words.

When just fucking around, do you ever get curious about what you see/hear?:

My main method of motivation:
It's dishonest and probably a ticking time bomb, but it's working so far. I treated realkana.com like a game to play during load times and it helped get me started. These days, since I'm NEET and have nothing better to do, I allocate 1-2 hours a day to anki.

Just write a browser script that replaces every instance of the word jew on Holla Forums with korean and you'll be getting the 2ch experience.

Habit. If you use spaced repetition just force yourself to do at least the reviews, and learn your new cards too if you have time.

Can someone tell me what 間に合う　is supposed to mean? Anki says, "to be in time/ to answer the purpose/ can do without" and that just doesn't make any fucking sense to me. The example sentence reads, "従業に間に合いました” which is translated as, "I made it in time for class." That's fine, but how is it used in those other contexts?

Give yourself a routine.
At X time learn Japanese for an hour.
Then at X time do school work for an hour.
I need to do this myself

You mean 授業. Class is じゅぎょう not じゅうぎょう.

Anyway, here is another example sentence from jisho that might clear things up for you.

Whoops, seems to have pasted the furigana in there too.

yes that helps, thanks. also, are 従業 and 授業　homophones? the う is very subtle.

As long as they have different kana spellings, they can't be homophones, since the kana tells you exactly how to pronounce it. Plug them both into Google translate or something and listen to the difference.

I've read some of his stuff before, his entire site was summed up with what I said before, he's just a passionate guy wanting to share make money how he learned Japanese.

JUST FUCKING DOING IT

Actually now that I think about it, there are a few exceptions that you should be careful of. つ and す sound pretty much the same, as well as おう and おお.

氷 for example sounds like こうり, but the correct way to spell it is こおり.

bump

おい、俺とチンポをバンプしないか。

Is futaba any good? I heard 2ch is just the japanese equivalent of reddit which is why I'm asking about futaba

you fags keeping up with your studies?

Just got though memorizing the kana. I feel pretty good. Now I'm getting Anki flash cards set up. Didn't think this would be so fun, but I'm actually really enjoying the challenge.

人間 【にんげん】 (n) (1) human being; person; man; mankind; humankind; (2) character (of a person)

You shouldn't limit your reviews per day.

Can you go into more detail?

I'm suddenly very fucking glad I decided to start learning moonrunes years ago.

That user clearly has his reviews limited to 100 per day. To make optimum use of spaced repetition studying your reviews shouldn't be limited at all.

Has anyone ever been arrested for using nyaa?

If you're lucky maybe you'll be the first. :^)

To the party van!

Recently tried this out for Kanji. And holy shit it's good. Up to 400 or so Kanji in it right now. Can't think of a better way than this and it's Anki deck to study Kanji right now. Any of you aware of possibly any problems or anything else I should be doing for Kanji?

What exactly does this teach you?
I'm not a fan of shit like RTK.

It teaches Kanji sorted by how common they are. For each Kanji it teaches meaning, then it has possible readings though doesn't encourage you to memorize them by themselves, then has a mnemonic for the meaning of the Kanji (and a good one at that unlike KanjiDamage and WaniKani), and then it provides some common vocab words of it so you can see how the Kanji is used. Unlike RTK this is actually quite practical.
Or at least for me I guess. It also has cool side info for each Kanji like old form, whether it's in the jouyou list, or jinmei list and what it's number is in that one.

Oh that sounds useful I should check it out as well.

Retard

you can't be this fucking retarded? How the fuck are you even on this site? Underage bait go back to reddit or cuckchan what one you came from.

バンプ～

So, you say not to limit my daily reps, but I don't want to spend three hours doing reviews. Does anki automatically designate a limit for you, or does it expect you to keep going into you can't take it anymore?

Sure, limiting your daily reviews isn't optimal. If you need to review a card the next day and you don't see it until a week later, you're going to have some trouble remembering it.

That being said, sometimes that isn't feasible. Ideally you won't have an absurd amount of reviews in a day, but if you've come back after a long absence you'll have several hundred cards to deal with. In that case, you may need to limit your reviews to avoid getting burned out. Another way of dealing with large amounts of cards is to bury everything you can't answer off the bat, answer all the easy reviews, and then unbury them all. This way you can maximize the amount of next-day reviews you get for this massive stack.

Taking everything you've said into consideration, and also considering that I'd like to keep a cap on daily reviews, what do you feel would be a safe daily limit? 200? 300? Like I said, I don't want to spend more than one hour doing anki, mostly because I don't want to make it more of a burden. I won't lie, doing reps sucks, but I try to keep a positive attitude. I just force myself to do it, and having that review cap is one thing that makes the daily reps bearable.

I'd say 100. If I keep up with my reps, it's rarely over 50 reviews in one day anyway. Reduce the daily amount of new cards if it's becoming too much of a time burden. That limits the amount of reviews (albeit after a week or two) while avoiding the pitfalls of putting a hard limit on them.

Well, that's my limit now, and I've reduced my new cards to 5 a day because 20 a day was insane. I have thought about increasing my limit as time goes on, though. That option is always available to me, but I feel pretty comfortable where I'm at. Additionally, I can recognize words as they're spoken in anime now, so this is sort of proof to me that my reps are paying off.

sertjrstynhjsrtje45jnsrtj5r-word-ethserthethehse-word-erthjasehawerh

That's sort of what it's like. Frustrating, but progress is progress if you ask me.

You know when you're presented with a recently learned word and you're like "I don't remember this at all". Then when you have a wild guess you end up being right or really close. Feels weird, because consciously you swear you've no idea what it is.

Slow, linear progress is better than trying too hard and burning out. This is true for every skill I've tried to master.

I'm going to die of alzheimers before I hit 10% seen

Tapping into that collective chink unconscious。If you've ever heard of the hundrendth monkey phenomenon, it's a bit like that

以下の和文を英訳せよ。

Smartphones these days will do almost anything for you, just short of feeding your dog.

So then don't add as many new cards, dingus. It's better to limit your new cards than your reviews.

Set your new cards to 0 for a few weeks until it becomes manageable, then try adding like 5 or 10 new cards a day for a week. Don't limit your daily reviews.

What are some Japanese games that I can play on PC, that aren't anime trash.

Way of the samurai is good

You'll get there, just take it slow and make it your daily goal to merely finish the current reps. Don't worry too much about progress, you'll eventually start to see yourself improve. I'm at 10% and it took about two months, which isn't long at all. Granted, I do my reps every day, but even if you don't, you'll still eventually get there. Don't let it consume you.

Alright, I'll try that.

I get the feeling you were meant to be replying to there, son.

Pic related is me after nearly 2 years if we're gonna start playing the dick waving game. The large amount of suspended/buried ones are an artefact of my importing 1.5 years of Memrise progress and it including the "ignored" words because I already had them in other courses.

What a shitty attitude. You're right, though, I replied to the wrong person.

態度は誤解したと思うな。冗談だったよ。落ち着きなさい。

I am not yet at a point where I can adequately read what you are saying. I think you've said that you're joking and that I should calm down.

How did you ever get the impression that I'm riled up? You must be very autistic, to be so bad a reading people.

Pic related, just fuck my shit up.

It's hard to work full time (night shifts and shit) and keeping up with anki if you add 30 new cards per day.

Where do I find it's anki deck?

sorry for blog. it's just a good feeling! keep at it, anons, happy to answer any beginner/intermediate questions that I can.

Jesus Christ, nigger! Get your shit straight!
There are two major regular groups of verbs,
consonant ending stem verbs and vowel ending stem verbs. For vowel ending stem verbs, the potential and passive are both "verb stem" + られる。For verbs with consonant ending stems, it's "verb stem" + あれる for passive, れる for potential. For example, taberu > tabemasu = vowel verb stem /tabe/ , but wakaru > wakarimasu = consonant verb stem /wakar/. Therefore, if it had a potential form, it would be 分かれる, except 分かれる is a completely different word and means something like "separate","divide", or "split up".
分かられる is the passive form, and in fact, even though it is an intransitive verb, it is still valid and usable. Japanese has one form of passive usage, probably the most common type, which directly corresponds to passive voice in English and other Western languages, but it has a few other forms of usage, which are unique to Japanese and make absolutely no sense to the gaijin brain at first glance. If you want to know more, it's called the affective passive or indirect passive in English.

Anyway, Japanese is an agglutinative language which means the suffixes can keep stacking up. For example,
住所が分かられたくなければ means something like "If you do not want (your) address to be known"
That entire clause aside from "address" is expressed by one massive verb in Japanese.

Here's another example of the usage of 分かる passive. あんたなんかに分かられたくない。
Translates to roughly, "I don't wanna be understood by the likes of you"
In Japanese, the whole sentence "I don't want to be understood " is one big verb.

As for 兼ねる, it can be used to have three different meanings as a verbal suffix, and one of them is pretty much simply expressing the inability to do something. Check this out for clear examples.

jekai.org/entries/aa/00/np/aa00np03.htm

分かり兼ねる indeed works, but you use verbal suffixes by adding them to the 連用形 (pre-masu form).

Japanese has a pitch accent which in fact clears up many of the homophones. You don't need kanji to distinguish homophones in spoken language and can still clearly distinguish the words, if you understand the accent. Each syllable is either high or low and particles counted as part of the word for pitch accent purposes. So two native speakers from the same region can probably understand each other without too much confusion. Problem is, the accents are very different across Japan. Check this out if you're interested.

Also, long vowels are not absolutely different in quality from short vowels. It's all about timing and rhythm. A short vowel is one beat, a long vowel is two beats. Depending on rates of speech, a slow old man's short vowel could sound longer than a fast talking hyper kid's long vowel.

Fuck, here's the link about pitch accents.

goro55.cocolog-nifty.com/japanese/2012/06/post-d12b.html

I wasn't trying to say it shouldn't be used passively, just not in potential form. My bad if that was confusing. I did indeed also mess up with what the conjugation for that would be though, thanks.

Just wanna say thanks to you guys who make these threads.
I find it a lot easier to jump into a new project if it's with my fellow anons. Must be something to do with me spending too much time on imageboards, and I've ended up feeling alienated from the non-anonymous, egoist population.

But yeah, I never would have taken on something like this if it wasn't for you guys making these threads. Thanks.

くーいて、ぐーいで
う/つ/るーって
ぬ/む/ぶーんで
すーして

Bitch

I have minimal work hours starting March 1st, I'm gonna start studying then.
Do you guys always remake the thread right away if it dies or should I save the OP post just to be safe?

Fuck, Americans should have imposed their alphabet when they nuked them. I'm never wasting my precious time on learning this language, i'd rather pick up an instrument or i could learn to code. Godspeed to you, anons.

Keep it up, user.

I've made the last 6 threads. I always wait until the last thread drops to page 14 and I usually wait a few days to see if someone else would like to make the thread. So far I've ended up making it. I have all the links to the resources in the OP backed up in a text file, so you don't need to worry about it randomly disappearing. Also, if you have any suggestions for new material that you think should be added, drop them before this thread dies.

You don't need to learn all of them. Lots of them are too old that they're not used anymore, and some of them are only used in specific circumstances that you'll likely never find yourself in. At bare minimum, you need to learn around 2500 words (that's words, not individual kanji). If you want to shoot for a very high level competency, then 6k is your goal, but you don't have to stop there, and why would you if you care enough to learn the language?

At a bare minimum, you only need to know the 2,136 jouyou (common use) kanji. Though it's obviously better to know more, you don't ever need to learn close to 20,000.

The Kanji Damage explanation for how fucked up kanji is and why it's the way it is might be useful.
kanjidamage.com/kanji_facts

The amount of anons who come in complaining that they have to learn 10^80 symbols for no reason other than Japan are secretly masochists. Plus that shit's interesting and helps to demystify the strange chicken scratches a bit.

man, fuck kanji. i can not and never could do the whole "just REMEMBER" thing. It's insanely hard for me to remember shit without a proper explanation/understanding and there's just nothing to really explain behind kanjis. it's like, here's the fucking bunch of strokes and it means these few specific things, good luck. it's absolute torture for me

There is an explanation behind kanji though. They are made up of radicals, and each radical has a meaning.

...

no i get that but then the kanji for let's say table (talking out of my ass here, i have no idea what the kanji for table is) is made out of the radicals that mean sky, glass and smart and then it doesn't fucking make any sense whatsoever again

was meant for , accidentally quoted myself instead

In English you have words like firetruck. That's pretty obvious. It's made of fire and truck.
But then there's like "epitome", which isn't a tome at all, and it's not even pronounced like "tome". But it has tome in it, what the fuck?
And the prefix "in-" means the opposite of something, but inflammable means that it's…flammable.
Then all these kids these days use this word "weeb", which is apparently short for weeaboo which is a fucking nonsense word from a comic.

Check out if you want a rundown of why kanji is the way it is. But it's not completely arbitrary. It's only as hard as you make it, user. If that's still too hard for you, maybe try learning a simpler language for English speakers? Romance languages are a good choice.

Most of the time the radicals have at least some correlation with the meaning.

A kanji that refers to a body part will usually have 月 in there somewhere, a kanji that refers to a means of communication will usually have 言, a kanji that relates to fire or water will usually have 火 or 水, etc.

On an unrelated note I was hanging out with some Jap friends on the weekend and one of them had a hard time with the English pronunciation of "H". So he kept saying "futas" instead of "hooters".

Well technically ふ is pronounced as a weird combination of fu and hu. フーターズ is the closest approximation they can make.

Do you live in Japan, or just visiting?

I live in Sydney. My friends are here on a working holiday.
They're currently staying at a share house with some Europeans, including two Italians. So we introduced them to the fact that "cheers" in Italian is "cin cin". AKA: ちんちん. Dude was entertained by that all day.

Though I am planning on going over to Moonland on a working holiday myself mid-year.

Have fun, man. You've been there before, right? Where'd you go? What'd you like most about the place? How do they treat the gaijin?

Been twice before and I've been to a fair few places. Best fun I had was probably seeing snow monkeys in Nagano during the winter. Climbing a dangerous as fuck mountain path for a mile and eating delicious hot salted yams.
Best thing about the place is as an Australian everything is relatively cheap, especially booze. Plus there's no nanny-state bullshit laws. So if you want to drink in the street, it's cool.
The only time I got a bad reaction for being a foreigner was one restaurant in Kyoto where I think it was more he was scarred from tourists who only spoke English. So no gaijin at all allowed there. Other than that I got a super-positive reaction in most places. Always someone to chat to in an izakaya because you're foreign (thus, interesting) and can speak Japanese, so you're approachable. I hung out a lot in on in Sugamo. Got a free drink every night I was there from randoms who were so happy to see me or in the case of the navy boys happy to shout the whole place.

I'd love to go back to Takayama. It was super peaceful and really beautiful.

Pic is some horse sashimi I had at a place in Nagano station.

You make it sound so lofty, like some magical kingdom in the sky where the good times never end. You gonna try for citizenship?

I'm gonna have a hard enough time getting a job that'd sponsor a work visa, let alone citizenship.
Saying that, I'd have to renounce my Australian citizenship and apparently do shit like change my name. So I'd be happy to just be a permanent resident if possible.

Wait, so you're saying you don't have to attain citizenship in order to become a permanent resident? Well what the fuck do I know, but I thought that you had to have citizenship to own property or be eligible for work outside of a visa/sponsorship. Won't it kind of suck balls renting for the remainder of your days?

Might just be me but I think the op could be actually be shortened quite a bit. Probably almost all the links can be found in the very first link, the DJT guide. The guide itself is an old version, so updating that would probably be good.

Also, the bit about kanji isn't right. They're expected to know the jouyou kanji at minimum, add in the jinmeiyou and some miscellaneous kanji for 3000-3500 and somewhere around there probably an okay average. It's definitely less than 6000, that's about the number for the 漢検1級, an amount kanji nerds would know. I've seen a few conflicting numbers for the total amount of kanji used in Japanese before so I'm not sure about that.

I guess so, but I just wanted to make it easy for people who don't want to spent too much time reading through the guide. Granted, if someone gives enough of a shit to put for the effort required to learn the language, then it should be no problem for them to look through the guide and find out relevant info, but I just think it's a matter of convenience. Maybe I can just significantly reduce, or completely cut out, the FAQ shit and only post learning resources.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

You know, you guys don't have to settle for my OP, someone else can make the next thread. I'm just saying. I'm not the proprietor of the learning thread. If no one else does it, though, I'm gonna do it.

Knights win ez, regardless of their training the Samurai does not have the tools at his disposal to effectively deal with the plate mail armor of the knight the way that the knight can deal with his armor

Is this true? Grorious folded steel katana can't slice the knight armor?

Knight can't slice folded silk armor either though. It's like when two unstoppable objects come into contact with each other. The faster one wins.

Stop trying to bait each other, neither of you are taking it.

Alright, so i've learned most of the kana, anyone got a good resource to help me learn vocab and such?
I know people say "Just read you nigger" but i don't know what a lot of things mean

im gonna learn some moonrunes just to troll chincks online

頑張れ

Anki is a must

毎日暗記をすると数ヶ月を経て一般な日本語文学を理解するようになる。

Get Rikaisama so you can hover over text you dont know and get what they mean

Get Kanjitomo if you're reading manga - it can scan kanji on your screen

どもよお！

It's literally in the OP.

EVERYTHING you need to know is in the OP.

I know

ありがとうあのんくん

What anki deck are you using user?

eww

Fuck I'll never be able to play Japanese games.

why does "おう" sometimes get romanized as "oh" instead of "ou"?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn_romanization#O_.2B_U

Basically different people have different ideas about how shit should be romanised and it'd be great if they could stick to one standard. The best I reckon would be directly transliterating おう to "ou" and making it understood it's just a long "o". Instead of modifying it to make the English pronunciation try to match the Jap one.
Makes looking up some shit annoying as あずまんが大王 is sometimes spelt "daiou" or "daioh".

It's just a different method of romanization.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Japanese#Long_vowels

Shit user, when I first started, I didn't know even 10% of the words, I'd say you're off to a great start!

If you see a word you don't fucking know then you look it up, and you keep looking it up until you fucking remember it. You think anyone came into this magically knowing all the fucking words? You bitch.

drink beer

Even as a native English speaker I must periodically look up English words I do not know; it's something everyone must do until they die.

Any suggestions for a game that
1: has some kanji without being unreadably small
2: has an English script dump that's organized (I want to compare the scripts, not use it as an aid)
3: is easily emulated
4 (optionally) has a Nipponese script dump

Already beat the first two Golden Sun games while comparing the English script to the original, which showed a lot of interesting stuff and was fun.

chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html
On this site, you can download a retranslation patch for Chrono Trigger, and there's a text file of the North American scrip you can download. It's easily acquired and emulated and the Japanese version has Kanji (and emulators will allow you to alter the screen resolution to your taste if you feel the Kanji's too small). I don't know where you'd get a Japanese script, though there's bound to be one out there.

Unreadably small means the resolution it's drawn at. I can easily increase the view window of any emulator. I just don't want to spend my entire time trying to decipher shit like this first kanji on the second line every 10 seconds

That's 職.

I know it's something I'll figure out eventually, I'd just rather play a game than play guess the kanji (and that's hardly the worst example, just the first decent one in my screenshots folder)

Well I don't know anything about script dumps, but PS1/2 have a ton of RPGs and are the ideal resolution to properly display kanji.

sorry if this is an obvious question, but I'm new to kanji and I'm still trying to wrap my head around the entire concept.
I looked at the guide, but it doesn't go too in depth on this.
I was trying to figure out why RTK doesn't teach pronunciations, and kinda fucked myself over a little in terms of trying to understand this language.

The way I see it, kanji aren't actually words, right? They're symbols with several different pronunciations, and a very loose "core meaning" assigned to them.

The way they take form in the language is through vocab, which uses one of their readings, and assigns a definition to one of those readings, if I'm not mistaken.
Which is why RTK doesn't teach pronunciation, because kanji aren't anything until they're used as a "vocab", either alone, or combined with other kanji or hiragana, right?

So here's my question, assuming all the above is true:
Is RTK worth it?
Do I need to do this to create a kanji "foundation" to make learning later easier?

How does RTK not fuck you over as a beginner?
since from my understanding, it makes you associate individual kanji with a single meaning.
yet can't each kanji, when used in vocab, have several completely different meanings, and then you combine them with other kanji and they could possibly mean something entirely different?

Will I eventually pick up the "core meaning" of a kanji if I just do vocab?

I'm pretty sure RTK has a preface that explains all this.

Kanji are logographs. So, yes, they're words. When Kanji are grouped together with other Kanji and Kana characters, they make Jukugo, which are the Japanese equivalent of English compound words. For example:
"今"　by itself means "now"
"日" by itself means either "fire" or "day"
When you pair them together, "今日" the Jukugo is "today"
Is every individual Kanji also a word? Well, I don't know that for sure. I'm inclined to believe that this is the case, because I don't think I've come across a Kanji that isn't, though I could be wrong.
Don't get confused; Kanji have readings, which are referred to as On'yomi and Kunyomi. On'yomi represent the traditional Chinese reading, and the Kunyomi represent the Japanese reading. A Kanji may have multiple on and kun readings. For example:
"年" means "year" and it's pronounced "とし" or toshi. This is the Kunyomi reading. When paired with "今年" (this year, ことし) it retains this reading, but when it's paired with "来" it becomes "ねん”　(next year, 来年, らいねん), which uses the On'yomi.
Everyone keeps telling me to fuck off with the readings, don't waste your time. Do vocabulary. Vocabulary, vocabulary, vocabulary. Reason being, you'll eventually intuit the readings on your own without taking the time to memorize them. So, with that in mind, I'd say you should just do vocabulary instead, i.e. the core2k/6k deck with anki.

RTK doesn't teach you readings. Imo it is worth it to help you remember the kanji, as the title suggests.

You are correct, RTK is a piece of shit for fucking retards.

If you want a good book go with this

バンプ～

Can we get a link to this book? Here's the anki deck
ankiweb.net/shared/info/779483253

For what reason does google translate's text rendering differ here?

What do you mean?

He's asking why the graphics are different. In core2k/6k they're written differently than they appear in Google translate. I chalk it up to a stylistic thing. There's more than one way to write these things, right?

It's just a different font. Like how Roman letters have serif and sans-serif style fonts.

Thanks for the thread OP. Been using Genki - An Integrated Course in Elementary Japanese to study for the past months. These oughta help.

If you want to change the font (or anything else for the deck style) click on the edit button while reviewing your deck, then click on the cards button.

Personally I'm still not entirely sold on Meiryo UI, so if anyone has suggestions I'd love to hear them.

I was reading through Tae-Kim guide when i got to this example:

つうか、なんでお前がここにいんのよ

That いん what should mean?

居る

Well fug i tried to use rikaisama but nothing. Thanks user

That's because it's slang.

I know,i'm at that part on the guide, but i really couldn't grasp what the fuck it was trying to say. My grammar is a bit lacking as now

You'll get a feel for it after a while, it just takes a lot of practice.

I hope. As now i feel like i'm getting it but there is some part that i can't seem to grasp or that i forget.

Bump limit has been reached. Thread has been pretty slow, this one has been up for 16 fucking days. Can't tell if that's a good thing or not.

Don't you want to learn the Nipponese, user?

What's the best way to do it? I'm considering powering through genki1/2, moving onto tae kim and reading japanese the manga way. After that using tobira/imabi.

Good plan?

I don't think there is a single best way. Just try a bunch of resources and find whichever works best for you. I've gone through Genki, RTK, Tae Kim, Human Japanese, Rosetta Stone, etc.

Once you're confident enough you should move onto practicing with actual material though, like Japanese games/manga.

Alright, I'll do everything in that order, see if any of that sticks.

Trying to start playing voiced vidya. Any word on the difficulty of vocabulary and grammar in this game?

Why don't you play Ayesha first?

Because I want to play as a dude and found the limited edition.

Also: Blacksmithing

...

So any word on the difficulty of Atelier game vocab?

Probably not that difficult. The Arland series is probably easier though.

But I am learning, and playing for that matter.

Anyone still have the hiragana and katakana charts?

Unless these are some super specific charts, fucking google them you lazy shit.

You spent more effort posting on here than searching.

づ du or dzu or zu?
を wo or o?
ふ fu or hu?
This is why some consistency is necessary. I'm hoping we found a chart that everyone agreed is definitive.

That's not going to happen unfortunately,I've found a number of different charts but wanted to compare them with one that got posted in the thread a few times assuming it was one the thread agreed was good

Unless someone's writing one using like IPA for pronunciation you're never going to get a consensus on those ones.
For starters ふ is actually halfway between F and H. It's like saying F but with your lips open like you're blowing out a candle.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_Japanese
If you want to be exact.

Romanji is bullshit and will probably never be perfectly consistent with itself.

Any suggestions on this? Considered Shining Force then I remembered the remake fixed a shit ton of stuff and that does not have a script dump.

Shining Force is a good choice since the English translation is so bad. The Genesis original is better than the remake imo.