I've spent the past week replaying Deus Ex and I've been wondering what I liked about it at all...

this stops happening after the 747 mission apart from one or two moments later on.

top kek, as they say

Of course, I pressed F7, hopped off and ran away like a spastic jack rabbit to watch my dying brother fend off MIBs while I crouched behind a leather couch eating soy food snack baggies and despite him being in extreme pain he could sure tank a dozen troops and three MIBs just fine. But hey, so long as I walked out the front entrance he survives 'til the end

It was also boring and required no skill

I remember when deus ex launched a local magazine gave it 4/10 and the reviewer pretty much shat on it describing how horrible the first map was. They then changed the rating to 8/10 in a later issue and wrote a whole we're sorry piece for it.

See user, the game had gameplay like this because before we didn't know any better ways to make an rpg. I thought it was kinda meh and definitely wouldn't replay it what is even the point if your choices during the game have no effect on the ending, and I definitely don't understand why it keeps getting called the "best PC game of all time". It is worth a playthrough and has neat aesthetic, but not much past that.

they were right the first time

Gee, I wouldn't have fun either if I played as horribly as you do.

We did know how to make an RPG. The game even has a good base system of augs. The skill system can honestly be removed entirely and shooting made more skill intensive, making lock picking and multi-tooling more resource intensive, cut down the RPG shit in the game and make it apply to things that make sense. Your guns could be upgraded, you could have avoided the whole upgrading your pistol skill magically makes your 10mm do more damage and also your hand less that of a spastic drunks.

Thank you kiddo for your valuable input. Are any games older than a decade that you deem not garbage?

someone's an immersion fag. Shouldn't you be in a stalker thread defending the AI shooting at the sky while shouting russian and panting and running around over no discernible threat?

umihara kawase

C'mon, man, what the hell are you doing?

Then stop making threads about PC games.

exploiting the game like its meant to be and saving myself from the shit game play

The game isn't meant to be exploited, silly.
Nothing is meant to be anything. You just played the game in a boring way and whined about your bad experience.

there shouldn't be anything boring about jumping through the rooftops and killing hordes of mj12 and sneaking at my own leisure going for stealth when it's no longer acknowledged, the games mechanics and design are just shit. It's never hard, never tense, never interesting.

Sounds like you need to git gud, OP.
The joke is good though

Oh look, it's the same thread again. No, OP, you are just shit at the game, pretending that you were "replaying" it for the next thread doesn't change anything from what you were told last time.

Shit, why do these posts seem familiar? Are you upset you got banned yesterday?

are you going to ban me again for discussing the truth :^)

How many times do we need this thread?

ATTENTION FAGGOT

Full/v/ is not a fast board. Your threads won't die in a few hours. You don't need to make ridiculous bait threads to get SERIOUS DISGUSSIONS :DD going of your beloved game or subject.

Now fuck off until you learn this, cunt.

>>>/cuckchan/

No, please, share your opinions on the PC platform, this should be good

Well at least it was nice of you to admit it, now fuck off back to where you belong

The new hipster opinion ladies and gentleman, Deus Ex is bad.

Jesus motherfuckingtapdancing christ, Deus Ex is a FIRST PERSON ROLE PLAYING GAME, not a first person shooter, you might as well complain that Starcraft isn't turn based you ritalin induced moron.

This is like the second or third thread dissing Deus Ex that we get this month, what's happening?.

Cuckchan leaketh over.

being an fpsrpg doesn't excuse both parts being absolute shit, child. Maybe try justifying why anything is good here and you might have an argument more than "b-bu-but it's the genre!" nigger you're like faggots that complain anything that isn't dnd isn't a real rpg.

the truth is being revealed and the Illuminati can no longer hide it…there are bad games that are praised for some reason.

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skill system should have been removed or better focused

Hilarious post, anonymous.

lol

Do you have the slightest familiarity with the background of the development of this game?

yep, and I even know harvey smith joined the teama nd rethought the entire skill system a few months before the game came out. It was a mistake and it didn't work. I also know that Spector was a producer on system shock (a slightly better game too - with better shooting mechanics interestingly) and has received a pretentious following but in recent years his showing off as a progressive faggot has turned a lot of his image board fans off.

You're surprisingly fast on google

and trying too hard to fit in

I never liked Deus Ex and I think the main reason is because I lack the nostalgia. The game is awful in many ways and I lose interest beginning with the first mission, I don't get how people like it at all.

google? I've been part of the ttlg community for about 8 years now, mostly supporting a few people with dromed and helping back up things like the e2k editor. After LGS folded, a few of them joined up at ion storm. but sadly much of the actual legacy of their games design is poorly represented in deus ex. Oh well, at least Spector got to make his dream game on request of Romero :^)

You must think you're smart for knowing this entry level game industry shit, but that's just a sad sign of insecurity.

Cool, stay there

And that statement is a sad sign of a lack of self-awareness

Oh wow you are such an oldfag kiddo!

top kek

Now fuck off.

nigga c'mon at least fight for once in your life, aren't you tired of being bullied around?

thanks, but you do know how long someone's been around these places doesn't matter, right?

Jesus christ I can't even tell if it's bait or a genuine autist

why are all your posts so meta? Do you ever actually contribute to anything?

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you haven't proven yourself right yet :^) can't even try, can ya?

wew

I'd say people like Dude Sex because it's the only game in its genre which means there's nothing to compare it to. Same thing goes for STALKER and EYE.

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nigga this only shows off your own incompetence.

I'd rather play a game that does pretty much any of its elements well than a game that does nothing well but does a lot of bullshit on the side too

Oh then you are going to love cinematic games, they do graphics really well. Sounds right up your alley.

The only opinion I've really put out in this thread is that you're an idiot and I would safely say I've been proven right at this point

The game does conspiracy well and one of the few games that did, which is why it's reached cult status. I can't name a game that really made me think like Deus Ex does, besides maybe Alpha Protocol but that's pretty shallow in compassion. The gameplay isn't great but it's serviceable so long as you're interested in the writing, which is why you'll never see anyone try to articulate in defense of it's gameplay, just assume you weren't good enough to cheese the horrible AI.

sure, I can appreciate the visuals, but I prefer game play most of all. Couldn't deus ex at least look better than the 2 year old game the engine debuted with? It's a surprisingly hideous game too.

very non-committal.

I can't imagine anyone would have a problem walking 10 feet to the left or right of any NPC in this game to avoid them. It's why accusations of anyone being bad at this game are hilarious. It may as well play itself with how little skill it takes.

I don't disagree, I'm just saying there hasn't been a game that has topped Deus Ex's memes which is why it's haram to point out its flaws.

I guess that depends how little time you've spent on Holla Forums or anywhere to have never seen anyone praise DX for the gameplay

What's non-committal? Can you refute that you're an idiot?

Not an argument

Fuck you OP.

Neither are Holla Forums memes

No arguments to be found

Your post just gave me the Gray Death.

you're a top of the shelf kind of retard.

you might be laying it on a bit thick there, he hasn't come out of his shell yet.

entertaining to an extent, well written, no. It's silly and it seems to know it with JC squeezing in at least one liner per conversation.

does a good job of undermining the story at least, humorous at times but not a replacement for bad game play.

how is it "immersive" in any sense when it's constantly making a joke at its own expense?

like? It doesn't really do anything better than games that predate it. At best it just benefits from some of the things the original unreal pioneered which were already in the engine.

there was a clear effort to make as many variable flags as possible and that does deserve some commendation, a lot of hard work was put in there and that's probably one of the few good elements about the game.

agreed, there's some good music there.

definitely not

whoa there nelly, getting a bit ahead of ourselves. The level design is far from great, it's acceptable and never really hits any highs. The statue of liberty is particularly bad but that's as bad as it gets at least.

don't worry, the UC in vandenberg is operational and the cure is being distributed.

That's not even an idiom, it's "top shelf", but thanks for giving more evidence to my case

I feel like I'm getting really close, you don't need to be so nervous. It's OK, words on the internet can't hurt you.

I'm sure this was very witty in your head, but it came out completely incoherent, try again

Like I said, non-committal. It's a shame you don't understand something so obvious.

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You're reading too much into it.

git gud

or download the latest release of GMDX and fucking have fun with a good game you add-addled sperg. The game is a classic for a reason

damn i guess it doesn't count even if I do use GMDX :( didn't really improve much of anything, by the way. The game is a classic because pretentious faggots are desperate to shill a mediocre game

Story, characters, atmosphere, music.

Still holds up.

as someone who played it for the first time last year, I think it was fucking amazing and I had many memorable moments. Played it through 3 times too. I think you're just a pretentious faggot yourself. consider the noose

easily entertained plebe who thinks "fun things are fun!" is a real argument

music I can agree with, but game play is the most important and everything else you described is a mess and a failure in deus ex.

The other three things he mentioned are gameplay? Story, characters, and atmosphere?

I didn't say that, do you have problems reading? Are you ESL?

Oh look, it's a "I'M NOT HERE TO LISTEN TO YOUR OPINIONS AND HAVE A DEBATE, I'M JUST HERE TO ENFORCE MY SUPERIOR OPINION AND SHIT ON YOURS", this guy 86b253 is not here to listen to you and maybe acknowledge that he is wrong, he is just here to tell you why his opinion is fact.

Makes more sense than suddenly changing the subject and then immediately changing the subject again, or saying that the characters and story in DX are "a mess and a failure"

Given the way you botch figures of speech I don't think you're in any position to talk

Noone has actually challenged that Deus Ex's gameplay is great.

Being this much of a hipster should be a bannable offense.

I'm waiting to hear your refined, reasoned opinions that might convince me, friend.

No, that is incoherent. You must understand that you can mention one subject in passing as the most important, and dismiss the previously mentioned elements. I'm no English teacher, but I think this basic misunderstandings are due to your own grasp on the language being so poor.

Nonsense, there's been plenty of criticism over the flawed skill system, the poor AI, mediocre level design. These are elements which make up the game play, and Deus Ex's is so very poor.

Sorry, i just came here to laugh at you.

or English anything, clearly. While you're expanding your vocabulary go ahead and add "projection" to the list

There's nothing wrong with the skill system. You are just a fucking casual.

Sage because this is a shit thread.

ITT dubs

are you saying +damage upgrades are actually a good thing?

I meant the opposite, that noone has challenged the claim that Deus Ex's gameplay is poor.

But it's not, the gameplay has more depth to it than any game made in the last ten years.

My mistake over your mistake. I'd love to see an argument pointing out the positive qualities of deus ex's game play, but I don't think I'd see anything that isn't pretty obvious on a surface level to anyone who has beaten the game once or twice. I don't think there's much there as far as game play goes. Most of the work in the game clearly went to structuring the narrative and player emergence in that narrative. Really limits the value of the game if most of the changes are based on NPC reactions at best. It's novel but it isn't really that interesting.

ITT suppression of dissenting opinions
lmao horseshoe theory is mostly bullshit but it does apply to vee and tumblr

Go back to reddit

I think you're mistaking content for depth. Deus Ex isn't a deep game in just about any meaning of the word. It's very shallow in fact. More so than games of the time, and even more than many modern games. There is little to learn about any of the mechanics, and quite bluntly, just about all the mechanics in the game have a core function of waiting. You wait to hack, lock pick, wait to have you crosshair tighten, wait for enemies to patrol, wait 'til you can run again from crouching around enemies, wait for openings, wait for tranq darts to kick in, many of the rpg elements are tied to decreasing that wait. That's not depth.

Thanks for proving my point further, retard.

How many proxies do you have, OP? Just keep using the other one

I phone post occasionally, but I never hide that I'm the same person. Haven't done so yet in this thread.

In what ways? The first half of the game is learning the disabilities of the AI and the 2nd half is exploiting it. Lockpicking and hacking is a matter of exploring and collecting resources while making sure your lockpicking and hacking skills are high enough for the level. Combat is either taking advantage of the AI with a silenced sniper rifle, prod/melee weapon/silenced pistol, or a matter of exploring and collecting resources to make sure you have enough explosives for the level you're on.

correct, both me.
I'm not OP though.

If Deus Ex's story was about anything else, I'd agree, but again it's the only game of its kind which is why it will remain a classic despite how flawed it is.

This is the cancer Holla Forums has become.

I think it's because the loose connections to the real world. Seen some people take it prophetically or something, I think a lot of the things they did coincidentally were pretty obvious things to focus commentary on at the time.

This is what happened when fucking Gamergoy allowed all those reddit KiA refugees to come over.

Deus Ex's themes are just as relevant today as they were in 2000 and more relevant today than any of the Eidos versions. Not even going to take the WTC bait, but so far it's the only video game I know of to talk about things like the Federal Reserve and the UN in the light that it did.

Gee, I wonder where else have I seen a story about nanomachine-filled agents with groundbreaking technologies uncovering a grand conspiracy involving those in power.

It's an acquired taste, so to speak. I'm not going to be a faggot who gets buttmad when people don't agree with me.

Don't like the game? no skin off my nose, but I think the level design can be a bit cramped at times. the statue of liberty level shows this especially.

Despite of being one of the best videogames of all time and my favorite videogame of all time, I think a lot of DX fans are unwilling to admit that the game has a very flawled beggining. Statue is a bad introduction to the game, one thing I love about DX is that you can have several build that although not perfect, they feel right, you can be the terminator, a ghost, a master hacker, etc and get away with it and end the game with that build like the game was supposed to be beaten with that build. In Statue and to a lesser extent Battery and Hell's the game is more stream lined, yes, an experienced player in his second playthrough should be able to get through this levels with ease but a new player not familiarized with DX's freedom might find himself confused and bored, for example, as a begginer the best way to beat Statue is with stealth, but DX's stealth is just not nearly as good as, for example, Thief, a game of around the same time, let alone the mechanics like hitting guards in the spine to get them unconsious or bypassing the lasers to get to Gunther are left somewhat unexplained.

Despite of all that I still think the game is fantastic, a little outdated by today's standars like aiming or AI but the level design is just so good that it makes up for it, in Todd Howards' words "it just works" but it's actually real this time. I don't blame OP for not liking it, but playing through Deus Ex and not noticing it's flaws and it's moments of sublime genius is a feat worthy of being called a retard, retard.

I one of the things I loved about the game, It felt so down to earth in that respect.

Actually I think OP is one of those autistic folks who cannot immerse himself into a story, he's literally incapable of enjoying a story and having an emotional response.

That's not really his fault though you have to live with the brains you're given.

No, Deus Ex is not the kind of game about learning in-depth mechanics, but applying your tools in any way you see fit. There are better first-person shooters, stealth games and hacking games than Deus Ex, but while Deus Ex may not be excellent in each area, it's the whole that makes it work. Keep in mind that LGS/Ion Storm made games with the mindset of emergent gameplay like what you would see in Ultima Underworld/System Shock, by giving you a lot of tools to overcome any obstacle, with some solutions presenting themselves as a result from interlocking mechanics rather than something the developers anticipated.

The large amount of freedom you're given and how each level presents unique situations to take advantage of that freedom are one of the biggest draw of the game. This can also mean that the game is only as boring as you make it, with obstacles in shape of robots and gun-wielding humans or other environmental hazards drawing the minimum line of how good you need to be at the game (something Dishonored set rather low and felt pathetically easy as result). You can play super sneakily, go guns blazing, go in between or find alternative solutions to name a few. The first level feels particularly weak because of this since your character has no particular strengths or advantages to exercise at that point in the game. This approach is what also lends Deus Ex a lot of replay value, as a lot of levels can be tackled in many different ways. NPCs also react to the player's playstyle in order to further enhance that feeling of each replay being unique.

>tfw you will never be as autistic as 86b253

I think part of the problem with the statue of liberty level is so many of its areas are ridiculously wide open, making the enemy AI ineffective. This gives new players a means to anticipate what they're facing, but also gives them too much leeway to exploit the enemy behavior so early on. Then once they're in the statue, there's numerous cramped areas where patrol patterns are too obscure, there's very few resources for reliable stealthy takedowns and this encourages lethal play. Only for them to be chastised for being too deadly later on. It's pretty cheap to limit player expression for a narrative gimmick like that.

It's still very possible to get through while still remaining non-lethal, but this does make the first stage exceptionally difficult.

As far as the story telling goes, the way the game handles augmentations is definitely well done. One line in the first level of the original sums up the story in deus ex 3.
that and with how heavily the game lays into you that mechs are outdated, it's pretty good in that regard. I think that's one of the story beats that gets appropriate exposure.

On the other end, I don't feel that any of the endings' supporting characters express themselves well enough for you to get an idea of who they really are. Tong coaches you once and pops up a few more times following. Paul hints that Helios is the way to go, and Everett never really expresses how the Illuminati worked and if anything some of the minor NPCs express how world government like that has been fucking people over for a long time. None of them really give a good enough argument, they're all weak and unconvincing.

Yes, I know this. I was just saying Deus Ex doesn't have depth - which in turn makes a lot of the mechanics unsatisfying. The game tries to make up for it by having many options available, but it never really hits the mark with any of them for them to be enjoyable enough.

As far as emergent game play goes, Thief is an example of it being an absolute success. It places you in a clear as day role, the consequences of your actions, failures, etc. are very obvious, and the way you interact with that sandbox has very interesting and enjoyable, predictable results. While this is all being achieved satisfactorily, the game is rich in depth. Semi-open progression through levels and AI that's a lot of fun to take on and extremely dangerous too.

There are a lot of ways to do things in deus ex, but few of the things you do are particularly satisfying.

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There's not much I can say here. For me the exploration and reactivity are what sealed Deus Ex's deal for me the most, on top of a strong story and setting. The level design is very strong when it comes to exploration and there's an application for at least any kind of approach (even if their implementation might feel half-assed). That, and it nails most ground rules of an immersive sim where most things behave as you expect them to and thus new solutions present themselves if you think about it (with the exception of the AI unfortunately). In that sense Deus Ex is more of a role-playing game where it's less about the visceral aspect or 'gitting gud' in the proverbial sense, as it's more about WHAT you do than HOW you do it, but not to the same extent as isometric dungeon crawlers for example.

Out of all games Deus Ex probably achieved the highest successful synergy between role-playing and action, whereas some games feel like a FPS with roleplaying elements (Fallout 4) or a role-playing game in first-person (Morrowind). Some games feel like they have underdeveloped roleplaying in favor of action while for other games the action suffers due to the role-playing (Borderlands?). Yea, Deus Ex has you wait ten seconds for your crosshair to tighten if you're untrained in pistols, but in any other isometric RPG with guns this would have been presented as a low chance to hit things or very low damage. Role-playing systems will ALWAYS come at some cost to twitch-action oriented gameplay as some gameplay options are locked/not fully realized in order to simulate the (in)ability of the character you're controlling. It may sound like a shitty game design choice to tie your crosshair to how much you stand still, but if you had pixel perfect accuracy all the time, then it'd feel rather silly to use melee/grenades/anything else if you're able to cap anyone's head from 500 miles. Deus Ex is great because your playstyle is not completely tied to your character sheet, while the progression mechanics are not just 'a nice bonus to my ability to kill everything' or so linear to the point where it's a matter of what upgrade you want first of all the ones you're inevitably going to get like in Human Revolution.

In Fallout: New Vegas your character sees its use through skill checks with a lot of skills which have some use in combat, however aside from the gratifying gore and guns it's still hampered by the god-awful Damage Threshold system for armor which turns most enemies wearing pig leather masks into your worst bulletsponge nightmare, with little in terms of encounter variety to really spice combat up due to the open-world nature of the game. Alpha Protocol handles progression through passive bonuses and active abilities which range from OP to useless, but its biggest issue is that its painfully unbalanced with Pistol+Stealth being a winning combo, while shotguns have piss poor range and automatic weapons feel and perform very badly. Borderlands (and 2 is a particular) is an everlasting battle with the RNG gods to get the best weapon drops possible in order to make fights drag out as little as possible, while the general approach to combat is rather repetitive and only defined by your weapon types, their manufacturer, and your class, except it overstays it welcome way too much considering its shallow gameplay and bloated length.

Murphy's Law is more apparent in games like Deus Ex whereas games like Thief have a higher amount of polish due to their smaller focus, which would make games like Devil Daggers perfect, but at that point your game becomes a niche and won't sell all that much. For Deus Ex you'll get a better idea of the game if you look at what it tried to achieve as a whole, how it accomplished that, and how future attempts failed to really grasp it.

Thanks user.

I spent the last few minutes reading over OP's highlighted ID he's been posting in this thread for 4 hours trying to convince Anons the game is bad and fishing for similar opinions to agree with him. I would not be surprised if he's he same OP of the last 2-3 threads ;ike this one. All he's done is convince me he just really hates games that do not conform to a specific subset of mechanics that he likes. Like most younger players and their hate boner for tank controls.

There's more than a few of them. Usually when they're proven wrong they turn into passive aggressive shits or do damage control instead of owning up to it. There was an user a whole ago who used a bunch of technical game design terms to defend Fear 3. When everybody called him out as a pretentious faggot who was wrong he just called everybody retarded and left. When people say Holla Forums is full of hipsters they're not exaggerating.

the best I can give the story is it's consistent. It doesn't really fall apart and handles itself well enough. I think the story is entertaining and the setting is pretty good, although I think it needed a bit more work in variety with background details. Kinda weird how you find the same midnight sun newspapers in unatco hq, hell's kitchen, AND hong kong in the mj12 base. Redundancy like that is just poorly thought out. Otherwise yes, it accommodates just about every play style consistently.

It wouldn't feel silly to be able to aim that well, that is a skill that comes down to the player. There are other ways and values already in the game which can be tinkered with to actually make the mechanics more effective. changing recoil, reload speed would be just a few of the ways I could see the system be kept more reasonable so it's not a matter of upgrading your skills to be able to actually use your weapons reasonably. The suggestion to nix the skills menu and replace it with physical upgrades to the guns, like the game already has, are a good idea too.

I get the idea of comparing how deus ex does these things to other games, but I think the discussion is best focused on deus ex, rather than comparing and contrasting it to those much newer games. The issue is, many games already laid it how you do parts that deus ex touches on successfully. HL1, Quake, Unreal all had pretty solid shooting models. Thief had a solid stealth model. Quake and even more so thief had solid movement models. Deus Ex ignored the successes of the games in this areas and went its own way with extremely shallow implementations of the same systems. Even at release these were essentially half baked mechanics.

Deus Ex was released in 2000, Morrowind 2 years after Deus Ex. New Vegas and Fallout 4 are the only 2 he listed that was released well past the year 2000 and gameplay had changed so little that's not even relevant to your point. Half-Life was released 1 year after Deus Ex, Unreal was released in 1990, and Quake 1996. Morrowind, New Vegas, Oblivion, Fallout 3+4 are all far more comparable to Deus Ex then Half-Life, Quake, and Unreal because Deus Ex is not a shooter it is pretty much an RPG the pistol accuracy being shit is because JC himself is shit with that pistol despite being trained in it's use.
Another thing, Deus Ex was originally going to be a typical action shooter but it was changed at the last minute and one guy essentially built the whole game in that last minute, and he primarily emphasized the ability to accomplish objectives any number of ways first and foremost and the rest of that shit you wrote second. You assuming accuracy is primarily a player exclusive skill is your opinion, Deus Ex was deliberately made to have RPG mechanics and therefore the actual accuracy of JC being tied to his own skillset.

Compare it to recent releases of Deus Ex and the original BTFO of them in terms of gameplay, level design and overall experience. It's just the controls and graphics that are a bit clunky.

you're right that everything is a train wreck but it's still a step above every other game

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What's it like a fucking retard?

But still manages to hold a cohesive narrative, especially around the plot points and characterisation in relation to the themes the game holds. Meeting Morpheus for the first time is one of my favourite interactions in any game ever. To add to this, it explores aspects of storytelling which are barely rivaled even today. Paul Denton?
Just like everything else that many people would argue is bad in Deus Ex, it's nowhere near a consensus. Most people agree it's amusing, which was the point the other user was trying to make. Levity doesn't ruin serious games, being poe faced does.
Because reacting to the actions of the player helps to give the illusion of a real world, and choices with weight behind them actually elicits a response from many who sigh at the majority of games?
Name another FPS made before Deus Ex which used social interaction as one of its core mechanics.
This is probably the best aspect of the game, agreed.
Agreed, there's some good music there.
Agreed.
You obviously know nothing about level design, whilst a lot of Deus Ex feels amatuerish, it's part of its charm. The true strength lies in the choice that players are given. Having 5 different ways to approach an objective was a novelty back than, and is even rare now. This is the strongest aspect of the level design, the approach to choice, and quite honestly; if you're going to attack being given choice, I think you're beyond help. Level design in 3D was not as established back in 2000 as it was now, (I'm not referring to pretty corridors) so making comparisons to games that enable geometric and visual signalling or otherwise is absurd.
What Deus Ex does offer is unique to it, and is scarcely replicated anywhere else. All level design of the time in 3D shooters is poor, but Deus Ex rises above its peers, and still holds up today because of the choice driven gameplay.

Your post was inflammatory despite you knowing very little on what you're arguing. You're the worst kind of poster on this site, go back to Halfchan.

You are fucking retarded

You really are one gullible faggot

was there an actual mass migration from cuckchan in the past month?