Will there ever be a natural successor to Thief? People rave about the dishonored games but frankly they're a joke in stealth terms, there's barely any tension given how easy the combat is (even without powers). I know that casuals would hate a game like Thief, where enemy encounters are lethal and hard to survive. Is there any hope?
That's the problem, fans filling the need for good stealth, that's not substainable
styx
There's no proper Thief sequels because Thief is only fun to Thief fans.
We have this discussion every single stealth thread ever.
There's two kind of people, people that like pure stealth, aka waiting around a corner for 5 hours before being able to move, and people that like predatory stealth.
The vast majority of people like predatory stealth, they grew up on titles such as Tenchu, MGS, and so on.
This is why modern stealth games try the predatory stealth route instead of the pure stealth route, it's strictly a matter of how many people enjoy a specific direction.
I think a lot of problems would have been solved if very early on we made absolutely clear that "stealth" wasn't a single genre.
The type of person that likes predatory stealth won't always get along with someone that likes pure stealth, and the two groups don't always intermingle, often, in fact, their interests are completely opposite.
If early on stealth was divided in "pure stealth" and "predatory stealth" Thief fans today would stick exclusively to Thief threads, indie devs would know PRECISELY what "pure stealth" fans want, and release games targeted specifically to that target audience, and everyone would be happier.
Today's "stealth" games always make one of the two groups unhappy, and that's always going to be the case.
"stealth" isn't an unified genre, it never was, and it will never be.
I'd say there's still a chance, especially now that some old LGS members are working on a Ultima Underworld successor and System Shock 3, if these turn out to be ok, I don't see why they would consider making a Thief successor at some point.
To be honest, I'm kind of worried of what may come out of these two since Otherside seems to be working on both of them at the same time
If you're not autistic enough to instantly reload a map after being spotted, you have no basis to judge a stealth game.
I must be missing something with Thief. I know it was a big deal for its time but I couldn't get into it. Maybe it was gaming blues or the game just legitimately didn't click for me. I liked the first level and Assassins but I quit at Thieves Guild.
no
moss arrows
the point is to not get in combat you know, being noticed is a failure state imho
Skyrim is. Its sneaking mechanics with mods improves on thief and removes the cheap mechanics making it hard. Mods give you thieves tools too.
I don't remember using buckets in Thief
Isn't that company full SJW though, I'm interested but I'm going to wait and listen for memes.
I think the game needs a better way to reinforce enemies spotting you and raising the alarm so it's a slightly more rigid fail state. and maybe a better AI for raising the alarm. In Thief in the level where you follow the assassin's to the estate and then rob it the guards raised the alarms based on my noise alone, imo they need some kind of visual confirmation like items being stolen or seeing me, although I did bunnyhop from one side of the house to the other but that's not enough, maybe another guard had realized that the physics in this world allowed people to build up momentum while correctly timing their jumps
Mods can do a lot in Skyrim, but I find it difficult to believe that they could fix the hilariously broken stealth system in the game, whatnot with you standing right in front of people and being invisible if your sneak skill was high enough.
Is what, a shit game a few of you faggots are memeing into something special?
No
An informed and insightful response. Thank you.
No.
Gaming was different back then. You were sitting behind your computer isolated from the world deeply immersed in the game. Gamers of today can't do that. Lack of concentration skills and checking social media every 2 minutes destroyed any hope for a triple A Thief game. Single-player games are a dying breed.
That's an interesting way of looking at it I hadn't thought of before.
I'm suprised no one posted Styx. Not that it is a successor, but because people always compare it to Thief even though it's slow as shit.
People like you are the reason the stealth genre is dead. Honestly the way you try to slap tags on everything makes it sound like you learned all this shit from extra credits or something.
This is bait. If it's not bait you never played thief or are fucking retarded
It's in the very first post you moron
Not that it's a good successor to Thief since it's mostly focused around platforming and doesn't do light/shadow as well as Thief does
Idk how I overlooked that. I guess because it was on the same paragraph as the OP somehow.
It also forces you to go slow and hug walls. The only thing they picked up from Thief it seems is having large areas to move around in, but it doesn't matter when you can only move at 2 mph.
This is a false distinction since, unfortunately, Thief facilitates predatory stealth via explosives, sword backstabs, knockout gas, and, worst of all, the blackjack, which functions as a one hit kill weapon with infinite uses. The real distinction is between stealth games in which direct combat is impossible and/or strongly discouraged and stealth games in which direct combat is possible and/or strongly encouraged. We see little of the former because it requires more intelligence and patience from the player and lacks the visceral impact of the latter.
But Thief wasn't hand-holdy garbage with a main character that refused to shut the fuck up.
This game's actually pretty Thiefy. I only played a little bit of the first level. You have to bug a presidential suite, and it seems like the hotel had multiple entrances. I just climbed up to the balcony and got in that way. I also played on the highest difficulty and it gave me like 3 objectives on the first level. You don't get a blackjack, but if you sneak up behind a dude and hold F they get knocked out. It's fast as fuck to, so I assume it's that neck chop thing, however it's the blackjack basically. It only works if they haven't seen you already. You can also pickpocket by tapping F.
It actually reminds me a bunch of splinter cell to. It has splinter cell-ish music. You can interact with the environment a little like shut off a TV to reduce light and shit. I doubt there's water or rope arrows, but I haven't gotten far into the game at all.
The only real concern I see is if they give you guns later (I'm not sure about this), or if it'll devolve into indie hipster shit. It has the artstyle but the gameplay seems OK. I just worry it'll get too easy.
Do they ever wake up, or are they out permanently?
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic was actually done by old Thief devs, as I recall.
Vid related, user
Yo, as an user making a guide for that game, it doesn't give you guns, but it's all way too goddamned easy and the atmosphere at no point is solid to a stronger extent than the first level.
Arkane Studios? No, they didn't open the Austin branch until after DMOMM came out
Ah, I'm mistaken then, my bad.
You mean stupid idiots then.
I really hate this excuse for any game. "oh but there's a mod for-" yeah fuck off, mods are just a way for the devs to get free work from customers.
I don't think that really applies to The Dark Mod since it's standalone now, and it was a mod for Doom 3 anyway. Although on the subject of mods I'm sure someone can come along and post the recommended T1 and T2 fan missions
You fucking know it.
Obligatory best level video.
It's not a false distintion, having the option to do something does not actually make it what the game is about.
Predatory stealth actually expects and rewards the player for taking out enemies and is geared towards that with multiple tools dedicated solely for combat.
"True Stealth" however never awards you whatsoever for taking out enemies and every resource you spent dealing with them will be seen as a waste.
For example, Deus Ex vs DXHR.
In the first game, you won nothing but maybe some ammo after taking down guards and nothing even for taking out bots.
There was no experience bonus for combat either and the only few times you were rewarded would be if you were hired to kill someone. The game also gave you plenty of tools (hacking, stealth camo as augs and items, binoculars, rebreathers, gas grenades) that could be used to avoid combat, and although it had plenty of guns and combat was very much viable, it never rewarded you for going that way anymore than using stealth.
By contrast, Human Revolution actually gives you XP for neutralizing enemies. It might seem like it rewards stealth more than combat since the biggest reward comes from non-lethal stealth take downs, but what it's actually doing is rewarding engaging your enemy instead of ignoring them.
This is so bad even DX2 does it better
ok
You're going to pickpocked guards anyway, might as well hit them too. It's also simpler to put an arrow in nonhumans than to slip by.
I think Invisible Inc is more interesting, where you are usually penalized for as much as knocking out enemies.
Why can't I get this game to run properly on my computer? I pirated the GOG version but keys are fucking broken.
I actually found the combat to be easy.
What difficulty am I supposed to play in?
I wish Invisible Inc had more levels. After a while looking at the same levels got boring especially since I always got Plastech and no other corp.
TFix.
Master. It changes up objectives, guard patterns/numbers, treasure locations and sometimes parts of the level.
So were talking about stealth games? I enjoyed Styx master of shadows. Good plot twist and some interesting power ups too.
Excellent post. Pure stealth is dead and all of you stealth fans made it possible by playing dishonored, styx and ass creed
What's wrong with Styx? It's a poor man's thief, sure, but it's a good game.
I'd like to add to this saying a vast majority of what made old stealth great were hardware limitations. Things such as perfect blackness of CRT monitors you won't ever get on big ass plasmas with consoles or 4K LCD with PC community. You can't design a proper game while dealing with dark grey/light grey shadows and tapetum lucidum perks people got used to.
Wrong.
Thief is an immersive simulation. The problem is that immersive simulation is too complex to design for the hack studios of the current year.
The closest thing to stealth in those games is just following people for five minutes in order for some sort of irrelevant lore to come up.
Not until sound tech catches up and a developer with a large enough budget uses that tech. Sadly your average casual does have good enough headphones or speakers to make good use of proper sound and publishers are only interested in marketing to as wide a group as possible: why spend money on sound if only 10% of your players will benefit? It doesn't help that the rights to the sound tech used in Thief and similar games at the time are locked away by the biggest jews in the industry.
Thieves Guild is one of the Gold levels and one of the worst in the game. Push through it and the game improves massively.
Thieves Guild is legitimately a terrible fucking level and I don't blame him for dumping it there.
I liked the pickpocket segments and finding out about your target and things you can use to your advantage like rafters to drop down on him. The few moments I was able to move in and assasinate him without being detected were extremely satisfying. Unfortunately the game doesn't really give you the opportunity to do that very often.
I'm talking about the first game, of course. The second one threw all pretenses about stealth out the window. I never played the rest.
...
user there are plenty of submarines games. Try Silent Hunter III with GWX for maximum Das Bootness.
It's the GWX manual that mentionted bottoming out doesn't help. Also I think only II had AI subs and multiplayer for maximum sneak.
I thought you just didn't know any submarine games, my apologies.
Well there's a bunch of indie games trying shit with subs so it's possible one will try that. Still I suspect they'll all be early access failures, I'm certainly not putting any money into them.
I'll try it again. First time I tried Thief I quit at the prison as I was more casual back then. This time around I quit at the guild. Third time's the charm, as they say.
You can skip missions by pressing ctrl+alt+shift+del. That's what I always do when I get into the thieves guild mission.
Really? Well shit. I don't really like the idea of skipping stuff though. Maybe I'll power through it again, maybe on normal instead of expert, just to get it done quickly and then move on with expert again.
My main tip for thieves guild that took a while to figure out is the hidden key item, in a room with a fireplace in the middle of it, there's a compartment in the back of it. The actual level sucks, mostly because it's far too long, but also because actually stealthing it like it was probably intended from the intro video is nearly impossible, too many enemies.
Later mandatory stealth levels in Thief 2 balanced it far better. One of my favourites is the one in the mask mansion where you are poking around beforehand.
But Thieves guild has probably one of the best tracks in the game.
Just power through it you nancy, it's a shit fun level.
OMG, you're the retard that got BTFO on the codex aren't you?
not sure.
Honestly as long as it's not slow and tedious I probably wont drop it in 5 minutes like I did with styx
It's fucking slow.
I actually got the game when it came out because I was looking forward to it. This was before I realized why I liked thief so much. I use to think it's because hiding in the shadows, a need to actually be stealthy (you can't just instant kill everyone at any moment) and exploring giant levels were the main reason. NO. It's that AND Thief lets you go at any pace you want if you're good enough. Styx always forces you to crawl around at 2 mph, where as in Thief you can bunny hop across carpet like a fucking ninja. I dropped Styx a little bit into the level after the tutorial, and never realized why until I replayed Thief more recently.
If you do go through again the mission after Thieves Guild is The Sword which is pretty damn good on your first playthrough even if you don't find the hidden thing Gold edition added.
[spoiler]>even if you don't find the hidden thing Gold edition added.
What was that?[/spoiler]
gay
Spoiler tags won't work across line breaks user. Also ** is easier to type and less prone to failure than the halfchan method of spoilering, use it instead.
As for the hidden thing Gold added to The Sword it was Little Big World.