What's the point of cartoons having references from anime outside of making a goofy parody if they won't understand what made them so memorable in the first place?One thing is to make a parody just for laughs which is fine on its own but then you have this which the only reason was used is because they only seen it from a superficial aspect instead of rather understand the symbolism behind it. at what point can it be considered a tribute to something you admire and not just an easy bait
What's the point of cartoons having references from anime outside of making a goofy parody if they won't understand...
still looking for the pdf of the catradora zine catradorazine.tumblr.com
>>115112897for their REAL target audience, being young adults, to look at and go >hey I recognize that! that makes me feel good. I will now call your show good
because children don't actually watch these shows and the adult babies still watching have something to point and praise in an otherwise forgettable show
>>115112897Utena was horrible.
>>115112897It's literally "Wow, we liked this as a kid, can we reference it?". Artists actually do that all the time, is just that when we where younger we saw it as the best shit or we didn't get it at all, Billy and Mandy is filled with reference to media the crew liked, but we didn't knew that as a kid, so it didn't affect our views on it.
>>115112897more importantly, why should I care? Didn't watch utena, didn't get the reference, didn't mind. According to half of the people here, it makes She-Ra a bad show somehow
Does it matter that it's anime? There are references to movies in cartoons too. The creators grew up with anime and would rather do this.
>>115112897>there are people who saw utena as a lesbian storysome people are too low-IQ
do little kids actually watch tumblr shows like she-ra/SU/star/etc
>>115113035go back to your containment thread
>>115113035the weird kids do
>>115113035If you were a kid and you didn't watch as many cartoons as possible, you probably don't belong on Holla Forums
>One thing is to make a parody just for laughs which is fine on its own but then you have this which the only reason was used is because they only seen it from a superficial aspect instead of rather understand the symbolism behind itIt's sad that Western cartoons and their viewers can't enjoy anything unless it's "just for laughs". Anything genuine gets criticized hard because Western people are cynical and jaded.Also I don't see the usage of that scene superficial at all. It was very similar in Utena. Ikuhara himself referenced to anime director Osamu Dezaki all the time, why can't others to that too?
>>115113066it's a different world anonyoutube is a thing now and that's where all the children are
>>115113035No, they watch anime because anime is better.
>>115113080because when utena did it, it was the payoff and in a way failed at it.Anime also do tributes to other series but you can tell when is a tribute and when is a parody but westerners can't seem to make a good tribute because their tributes are all "i recognize it, therefore is a good show."if you think that scene was because utena wanted to scissor with anthy then you probably didn't understood it at all
>>115113107where? toonami? do they know what a torrent is or they use a shitty stream site?
>>115113107>because anime is betterfucking baitthey do seem to watch more anime and shitzoomer twitter accounts are all about anime shit, demon slayer and my hero are more popular with the teen demographic than any cartoon>>115113056my college's GSA had a bunch of massive SU fans>>115113048i frequent /mu/ I don't come here that ofteni liked she-ra but i have no idea why i stomached SU. fucking hated that show.
>>115113184>zoomer twitter accounts are all about anime shit, demon slayer and my heroexcept when you sexualize all those characters, then is all yikes and oofs
I tend to dislike them especially in SU. It like "whoa! A Utena reference!" Except Utena did it well (which ia why it was remebered) and the SU version sucked.Macrosse missiles in new Ducktales made me cum though.
Would you think that way about scene where a character sinks in lava and the last thing he does is give a thumb up? Or a scene where two characters stand on top of a boat deck in Titanic style? If not then you're just a weeb who puts anime on a pedestal.
>>115112897It's just a visual reference, not a tribute.
>the same people who criticize anime for "sexualizing underage characters" are the same ones using anime references to sell their show
>>115113035I remember the time when steven universe wasn't tumblr shit, those where the good days
>>115112897Here you go OP just for you
>>115113179This isn't the early 00's anymore of course they mostly use streaming sites with the occasional zoomer who torrents.
Rick & Morty is also nothing but a shallow reference to Back to the Future
>>115113312i liked mega-xlr for being a tribute to mecha anime, i enjoyed the monkey robot show with the long name title for being a tribute to old anime series and taking the piss out of having such long title, i even enjoyed parodies other show have made. but this one was done in very poor taste
>>115113351>This isn't the early 00's anymorey-yeah hahathese zoomer faggots dont know how good they have it
>>115113399How was this done poorly?
>>115113184If anime isn’t better then why are more kids watching it of these shitty cartoons you fucking retard?
>>115113445Because unlike Anthy and Utena, Adora and Catra weren't ruined by fucking a Chad. They are REAL LESBIANS unlike Utena and Anthy.
...Cause Japan does it as well with 80s movies?
>>115113445when utena did it, there were many things implied, utena did it not save her because she loves her but because she wanted to save anthy from the role she was imposed to play, to set her free and make her live her own life becoming herself and not what everyone else put her as. utena did not need to say all that because the simple act was enough to say all of it while she-ra they had to be so obvious and say it because you're too stupid to get it
>>115113515>adora and catra are better because they have flat personalities
>>115113526>utena did it not save her because she loves her but because she wanted to save anthy from the role she was imposed to play, to set her free and make her live her own life becoming herself and not what everyone else put her asThat's also what Catra did to Adora as well. Adora thought her fate is to be She-ra and die with it. Her entire conflict in the show is this and how she "has to do this". Catra showed she has more than that and saved her from self-destructing for Etheria's sake.The difference is that Utena couldn't become Anthy's prince as Anthy needed to be her own woman, while Catra was able to become Adora's prince as well.
>>115112897Literally everyone has seen Utena. Not their fault you live under a rock.
>>115113585The reference is appropriate. M only problem is that by using iconic visual references, you're preventing your original creation from becoming it's own iconic reference.
>>115113585>>115113654this. now your show is nothing but a poor western ripoff to an anime from decades ago, congrats!
>>115113654You can't make anything unique or iconic anymore. Everything was already done in the 90s, or maybe before that. Everything after 9/11 is nothing but repeat of same old thing. Utena itself was just a successor of Rose of Versailles, and for example the black silhouettes used in Utena are just a reference to Taisho era illustrator Junichi Nakahara who started his career in Meiji/Taisho period.Western animation might as well now just stop existing if the bar is in "doing something new".
>>115112897Was this confirmed as a reference?Did anime invent characters reaching for each other’s hands?
>>115113795rose of versailles and utena can coexist the same reason pokemon and digimon coexist despite having similar concepts. but the more you incline to based everything on someone's work then that's when you have nothing unique. even dragon ball started as a reference to a chinese story but look how it became its own thing
>>115113035They watch cringy youtubers and letsplays. Only very young kids watch cartoons and is mostly stuff like Teen Titans or Spongebob.
>>115113839You should research how much Ikuhara took inspiration from anime director Osamu Dezaki and also Junichi Sato whose assistant director Ikuhara worked in the beginning of his career. Studio SHAFT really doesn't have any of the staff it used to have, but you can see modern non-SHAFT shows having that "SHAFT look" as many of the directors who went their own ways have taken inspiration from Akiyuki Shinbo, whose style basically was the classic SHAFT era.The scene in She-ra was one scene and it doesn't surprise me that people working on it love anime like Utena, I think it's a bit unfair to say it's "based on someone's work" as if Japanese animators have never done this.
Simpsons did it!
>>115113956one can't get on some form of transport without doing an Akira drift nowadays.
>>115113978Well there was no Akira drift in She-ra so I don't know what you're talking about.
>>115113826it's lesbian shit.Course its a reference
>>115114001Hard to do it when motorized transport is a Horde thing and Swiftwind isn't exactly drift materialBut its other series both anime and western that like to reference it.
>>115114001just because it was done, doesn't mean it will be good by default. SU references so many animes before and that still didn't made it a good show
She was a couldn't read
>>115113826The "gays reaching each other" is a classic Ikuhara visual
if it weren't for that scene it wouldn't change my view on this show being a ripoff of utena, seeing it again, i now am noticing that whoever wrote this show was thinking so much of making their own utena
>>115114205It's not that similar to it though.For example, neither Adora or Catra are filthy sluts like Anthy.
>>115114239>neither Adora or Catra are filthy sluts like Anthybecause it would trigger the poor baby adults that can't handle some strong scenes in their korra like series. people always cry that western animation can be for adults too but are too scared to be daring unless it's done for comedy
>>115112897>>115112988>>115113033>>115113165Why do SJWs love Utena so much?
>>115114534superficial motives, they only like utena because all they saw was strong girl and also a lesbian while all the messages went over their heads
>>115114093But she poetry
>>115113010>Billy and Mandy is filled with reference to media the crew likedWhat were the most prominent examples?
>>115114534Because it's about smashing the patriarchy and has gay themes
>>115113033are we going to call the movie's version not lesbians?Cause lesbian drag race 9000 fucking happened and that movie is pretty fucking gay.
>>115114708Different user but from what I remember; there was an entire episode that was a parody of Dune, there was an episode that ended with Mandy tying up Billy and laying bricks around him a la "The Cask of Amontillado", and Speed Racer/DBZ references
>>115115027movie was glorified recap but it wasn't as good as the series. the story had too much going on that the movie couldn't give that much time
>>115112897>every little thing must have come from anime
>>115113033Women can’t be friends without being lesbians.
>>115115619>two guys are best friends? they gay loli really hate this mentality, no wonder these people spend their time on twitter, they believe any physical interaction lead to sex
>>115112897It's Trans-raI don't understand what the hell were you expecting.It's fucking Trans-ra for god's sake
>>115112988I was shocked at how vapid, yet simultaneously pretentious it was. Sure seems to be a favorite though. I'd much rather watch Princess Tutu or something.
>>115112897Isn't that kind of... on the nose?
>>115113305The first episode has a young fat boy summon his pink shield in front of his three moms by eating ice cream and getting happy. It was subversive from minute one you fake fan faggot
>>115115921That's how homages work.
>>115115939Not the word I would use.
>>115113305>I remember the time when steven universe wasn't tumblr shit, those where the good daysyou probably watched something else because it was tumblr shit since first episode
>>115114574>>115114626>>115114786But japs made Utena a piece of art. When western sjws make Utena, it is not even half-baked shit.
>>115112988t. plebiango watch avengers or sth
>>115114534buddy its unarguably in the highest tier of kino
>>115117210if that's all you resume from this series then you probably are fine with being spoonfed all subliminal messages
>>115114534Effeminate black male.
>>115113033>>115115027Ikuhara said hewanted them to be much more explicit in the series which was why he started throwing kisses in right away in the film. He got pushback for the TV series from both the suits and Chiho Saito, although Saito came around later on. It was lesbian, they became a couple, they were just forced to be subtle about it.I actually think the reason for the Utena references in Steven Universe and She-ra is, "Now we can make these blatantly gay shows like Ikuhara wanted to, but was forced not to do." Really. Since they liked this show as kids, now they have the freedom to do what their childhood show wanted to do.
>>115113515didn't Utena beat said chad to a pulp and saved anthyutena and anthy are canon so cope
>>115117347it's funny how back when it was taboo they handled them more maturely and wrote them far more interesting unlike nowadays that is ok to be gay, they have no depth whatsoever
>>115117347yup the suit really didnt want ikuhara to go all out i really cant understand how ppl think that utena and anthy were not a thing
>>115117557is not that they aren't a thing, but the way they developed such relation was strong enough to make it believable (unlike korra and she-ra)
>>115117283nope its just so that your pp brain can understand that utena and anthy were not just friends buddy
>>115115141Mandy also did the Akira bike skid in one episode, and some of Hoss Delgado's scenes through various episodes seemed to reference He-Man's retroscoping like movements.
>>115117694Hoss himself being a walking combo of Ash Williams and Snake Plissken
>>115112897There isn't a single TV Western cartoon with half the quality and artistic merit of Utena.
>>115118799that would require actual EFFORT
>>115115862Same. I keep feeling like I SHOULD like it, because I liked Sailor Moon, Evangelion, Madoka, and Sarazanmai. But Utena just bored me, and everyone in it was an asshole. The only character I actually liked gets raped, stabbed in the back, and forgotten.
>>115119684>and everyone in it was an asshole>god i hate teenagers being teenagerssuch foresight wasted in Holla Forums, don't waste your powers here, now go, go save the day!
>>115113555>fucking a man is a personality
>>115112897Because you can't just copy and paste an emotional scene from one thing and put it in another thing and have it give the same effect.
>>115112897honestly the thing I remember most about Utena is the incest twins and the random hot rods>Utena invented two lovers desperately reaching for each othersure they did, no one else has ever thought of this
>>115114534Everything else was either too "hetero-normative" to downright "problematic" for the squeetards that work on this trash to enjoy or it wasn't mainstream enough i.e. not at Blockbuster.