5G is 5Gone Edition.Which probably means we're stuck with the current status quo indefinitely, for better or worse.AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADiscuss your feelings on this, ongoing and upcoming storylines in BG, BatO, or YJ, and anything else Batgirls-related.
Batgirls Thread
Jonathan Cook
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Ayden Gomez
>>114926383I want to rape Stephanie.
David Peterson
>>114926383Now Now, there's still room for the timeline to finally be straightened out and for Cass's history to be restored. The only parts of 5G that needed to to be cancelled was the semi-real timeline and the fifth generation part.
Joseph Smith
>>114926383so what's with people hating so much barbara gordon as batgirl but liking her so much more as oracle?i've never really bothered with the oracle stuff so i'd like to know
Austin Brown
>>114926383I wish more people would remember to include Betty. She's always being forgotten or left out
Alexander Cook
>>114926555
Nicholas Gray
>>114926568
Blake Gray
>>114926394You're violating the restraining order, Sionis.
Jaxson Thompson
>>114926589She moaned like a whore while it happened.
Benjamin Rivera
>>114926585
Charles Butler
>>114926612
Adam Murphy
>>114926451I think it's because post Flashpoint writers gave her a lot of Stephanie's characteristics, making one of them redundant. Before that Barbara was mature buta little cocky and also best friends with Supergirl pre-crisis. So really it's more of an issue of characterization. Me personally I like them both.
Logan Reed
>>114926383Cassandra is Best Girl
Nolan Rodriguez
That time Cass met Bette.
Brody Robinson
>>114926383I don't know about that user... we've seen trickledown effects at the very least of something going on at DC. B&O feels like it's nearing an end. Whether that means the series will end or not is up in the air. To add that Stephanie's time as Batgirl was removed, but it seems Hill has been making a point about Cass with her lost time as Batgirl and even Shiva pointing this fact out. Something is gonna give.
Thomas Collins
>>114926451Classic Babsgirl and Oracle aren't all that different. Oracle just has a little extra "her smile and optimism: gone" going on.It's this new generically spunky but not enough of an underdog to be engaging Babsgirl that annoys people.
Nolan Clark
We need a Batgirls team book. Cass and Steph independantly decide to become Batgirl on their own, run into each other during a case. Babs is on their ass because "How DARE you!", and after a brief scuffle amongst themselves they're interrupted by the bad guys and put aside their differences to work together. Babs then takes them under her wing, becomes the den mother, and... THEY FIGHT CRIME!!! With Bette joining soon after
Aaron Martinez
>>114927282I loved this speech, but it strikes me as odd that Bruce is being blamed for not "letting" Cass be Batgirl. He's certainly to blame for withholding the symbol from her (since that's apparently the in-universe reason she can't have one), but Batgirl's never been under his direct supervision and guidance the way Robin is, and as such has never been his to give or take. It was Barbara who gave Cass the blessing in NML, and while Bruce was pulling the strings on Steph's appointment to Batgirl, it was ultimately Cass' choice to follow his will or ignore it.So, basically, Batgirl isn't "his" and Bruce can't "make" anyone Batgirl, whether he wants to or not. At the moment the ball's in Babs' court, and she's not in much of a position to want to part with the cowl, so we're stuck.
Camden James
>>114927823I liked that she did it for the sake of Steph's character development. She knew it was something her friend needed, and I'd like to think following Bruce's plan was motivated more by her friendship with Steph than anything else. They're just so cute together, is all.
Cooper Kelly
>>114927823I think it's due to the fact that Bruce knows that there are shenanigans going on (ala with what happened to Tim/Steph) and knows that something happened with Cass.But-- while he allowed Tim/Steph to do their own things, he hasn't really done that with Cass.
Kayden Foster
>>114926451I think it's mostly resentment over Nu52 allowing all Robins to exist at some point, but retconning Barbara to be the one and only Batgirl. Also, Didio's hateboner of Steph and Cass that peaked in pettiness when he veto'd Steph's appearance in the Smallville comic in favor of last-minute Babs. Also, this >>114926663, especially in other media where Barbara is given more of Steph's characterization.
Ethan Watson
Cass is shit. She’s poo.
Cameron Cruz
>>114928249fuck off Dan
Leo Reyes
>>114927933It is very sweet. It's a shame the exchange didn't result in some real character development for Cass too, but she'd probably already had as full of an arc as she was going to with the Batgirl identity, and Steph still needed that final push to finish hers.
Matthew Peterson
>>114928228It sent me to another fucking dimension when last week's HQ confirmed there were other Robins before Damian. Usually she's at least ahead of the literal child, if nothing else.
Lucas Richardson
What about Batwinks?
Jacob Moore
>>114927823More like the writer is reusing old plots from New 52 and DCYou. We've had Oracle and now they're redoing "Death of the Family" even with James Jr.
Cooper Rogers
>>114928871Make a Batboys thread if you want one, user. It'll get hijacked by Damifag, but that's just the way it goes.Caroline Hill can stay though.
Jayden Ross
post rare babs
Michael Ortiz
>>114929107I've only watched the shorts so far, but I liked this one.
Caleb James
>>114926451Barbara is fine in AUs where she is essentially starting at her origin. In contrast, her going from Oracle back to Batgirl is like seeing Dick Grayson going from an adult Nightwing back to a teenaged Robin.
Robert Russell
>>114928953>We've had OracleThe fat they've repurposed Oracle for an evil robot really pisses me off. It's clear they have no respect for what oracle represented or an intention to properly replace either her role as the Birds of Prey's mission control or a positive example of disabled representation.
Jaxon Howard
>>114928953Every time they have something good with James Jr. they fuck it up. And I'm not talking about this new arc throwing away the redemption, I'm talking about the redemption throwing away him being Babs' Hannibal. Could've been fun.
Robert Roberts
>>114929242And even then it's even more petty than the DCYou version which served as a mcguffin to save her when the "final" villain erased her mind. >>114929250Yeah, that or the Batman who Lols being the cause of his madness. Nope, we're back to square one again from the New 52.
William Edwards
>>114927933It just kind of sucked that Bruce was like "give up the thing you care about most" without any real regard for how Cass would feel about that. Which was apparently "bad," because she fucked off to Hong Kong to live as a nameless vigilante with no contact with any of her former allies for about a year.But that was during an era where basically no one cared about Cass, not even the characters that she was closest to in the books.
Dominic Phillips
>>114929408To be fair, it was a contingency to be put into place in the event of his death, and I'd assume he was expecting Cass to be at least a little older and more ready to make something uniquely her own when that happened. But yeah, still a dick move. If part 2 of that plan had been asking her to become the new Batman in his absence, then it'd be more acceptable.
Brandon Nguyen
>>114929586Ultimately, it was a shitty retcon to try to make sense of Cass giving up her identity that still didn't make sense.
John Richardson
>>114929586>If part 2 of that plan had been asking her to become the new Batman in his absence, then it'd be more acceptable.That always seemed like Cass's endgame regardless because of how much she wanted it. She would probably even put the mission before Bruce himself. The symbol has such a deep meaning for Cass, probably because it means much more than anything she can describe with words. While it would be psychologically healthier for her to leave crime fighting and violence altogether, the bat is something she wants. And her taking it up in spite of Barbara and Bruce would be a great step towards reaffirming her identity.
Jack Rodriguez
>>114929765Better than the original excuse. But to be fair Miller was put into a corner with editorial with three orders.#1 Cass couldn't be Batgirl anymore and write her out of Gotham.#2 Steph had to be Batgirl.#3 Babs had to mentor her and get out of the funk she was in because of BoP's end.
Hudson Wilson
>>114929803>and write her out of GothamThis is the part that gets me. Why? Pure malice?From a writing standpoint, sure, Steph can't have her badass best friend there to lean on because she has to prove herself capable on her own. But I doubt that's the standpoint they were working from.
Adrian Ward
>>114929929I always get events confused, did Cass go full Shiva lite before or after giving Steph the suit?
Nathaniel Thomas
>>114929929Considering what happened to both Cass/Steph in New 52. Yes, pure malice.
Luis Wright
>>114926383Ok, I only know Barbara Gordon, but who’s the blonde and the Asian.
Jaxon Nelson
>>114930020If you mean when she got SLADED, before, during One Year Later. Steph wasn't even back from the dead yet at that point. Then Cass got a mini-series trying to mop all that shit up, which wasn't very well received. Then comes Steph's Batgirl.
Ethan Reed
>>114930110Blonde is Stephanie Brown, Tim Drake's ex, AKA: Spoiler, Robin and Batgirl. Asian is Cassandra Cain, Daughter of Lady Shiva, and should be the Kato to Bruce's Green Hornet except having her outclass him as a fighter makes him redundant, but only because writers a DC aren't creative.
Nolan Mitchell
>>114928992Literally who?
Henry Murphy
>>114930110Asian is Batgirl II (III, in Bette user's heart), Cassandra Cain, daughter of of past-his-prime assassin David Cain, who raised her to speak only with body language, not words. As a result, she's one of the best martial artists in the DCU. She's introduced in the No Man's Land event, and subsequently becomes something of a daughter figure to Batman and Oracle. Eventually her biological mother is revealed to be Lady Shiva. Other identities of hers include Black Bat, and most recently Orphan.Blonde is Batgirl III (or IV), Stephanie Brown, daughter of the villainous Cluemaster, whose only real claim to fame at this point is being her father. She spent many years as the underdog, outcast vigilante Spoiler, aptly named after her desire to spoil her dad's schemes, until she finally got her big break when she became Robin. Then she died. But she got better, and became Batgirl, so it worked out. Until it didn't when the universe relaunched and set her back to Spoiler. So it goes.
Noah Harris
>>114930283
David Russell
>>114928992> implying Damifag doesn't show up in these threads too.>>114930020We never really know really. We see a dream of Cass acting all Shiva-like telling Steph don't follow her. But next we find out her and Tim are being all chummy.
Caleb Miller
>>114930534>> implying Damifag doesn't show up in these threads too.Oh, she does. Usually it's less spammy though. A "Barbara is the only Batgirl that matters" here, a "Cass Caine is shit" there, and we all move on with our day. Robin threads get some scorched earth level shit.
Logan Brooks
>>114930621why are robin threads ground zero for inane shit flinging, is it women?
Gavin Fisher
>>114927933I'm really hurt that Cass and Steph don't really interact anymore. Cass is better friends with Duke and Clayface now than Steph, and that ain't right.
Juan Ward
>>114930621Oh yes, I've seen the attacks against Cass, Jason, and Tim fans being their common retort. >>114930776Have hope. If Kuhn/Goux get a Shadow of the Batgirl sequel, Cass/Steph is what they wanna tackle in it.
William Rodriguez
>>114927823One nice thing about this is that even though they largely dropped the steph/Cass friendship in the last decade, this goes to show that Cass probably cares more about her than Tim.
Alexander Ward
>>114930838That'd be cool, but I also want them to be friends again in the main continuity.
Jose Kelly
It really is bewildering they stuck to their guns with Babs as Batgirl since the New 52. They even brouhht back her awful mask costume that must suck out Jim’s iq whenever he looks at it and not know Batgirl is his daughter. I liked Babs in her Year One story, but dropped Burnside after one volume since it felt like a different character.
Nolan Gutierrez
>>114930838If that spoiler is true, I might just double dip and buy the kindle version now and order the book later for my shelf. Really odd I haven’t read it yet.
Julian Reyes
>>114930681If I had to guess, Batgirls fans can probably exist in harmony because the Batgirls do as well. There's no reason to shit-fling when the characters in question are all friends who have a history of helping each other become better and more interesting people. Aside from occasional squabbling over Babsgirl VS Oracle, there's just not much to argue about.The Robins are... not like that. Dick has good relationships with Damian and Tim, and that's just about the only positivity to speak of. Characters who hate each other breed fans who hate each other, basically.
Camden Reed
>>114930971Not to mention all three characters have been dumped on by DC itself, and we can all relate to the handling of each character as well.
Gavin Bell
>>114930681There's this one retard who has an alert any time anyone mentions the Robins so she can go off on how Tim is boring and Jason is a pedophile.
Carson Reed
>>114930971I’d second this. Oracle served as a mentor figure to both Cass and Steph in their respective tenures as Batgirl, as well as Cass and Steph being friends, which would result in quite a bit of overlap in the fans of the characters. I think only Damian and Dick have a similar situation of an ex-Robin mentoring the current one.
Sebastian Brooks
>>114930971There's some bad blood between the Batgirl fans, like the Cass fans over how Steph's book wrote her out of the Bat-world, or the Steph fans over Babs coming back and stealing some of Steph's shtick. But most can put it aside in favor of wanting a book starring all three that DC will never give us.
Colton Brown
>>114931180Good point. The Batgirls are able to be a nice little pseudo-family who all care about each other, but the Robins, probably for the increased proximity to Bruce and all his dysfunction, really don't get that kind of treatment very often.Dick storms off to Bludhaven, which results in Jason being an "only child," then he dies, which results in Tim being one, then Tim gets chased off by Damian, which results in Damian being one, since Dick is arguably more paternal than brotherly. It's a mess.
Liam Ross
>>114931475True. But like >>114931060 says, there's still a kind of empathy no matter which Batgirl you favor, because they've all been robbed and cast aside at one point or another.
Alexander Sanders
>>114931475>>114927394Making them all Batgirl is the best way to solve this, methinks.
Noah Collins
>>114930838>spoilerYes please. I wonder if they'd use Steph's New 52 origin where she also lives in a library to hide from her dad (small world), or invent something fresh.
Cooper Hernandez
>>114930776Steph's just sooo busy being Tim's emotional support girlfriend, y'know? Sigh.
Christian Edwards
Steph is the only good one
Jeremiah Martin
>>114932649You’re never gonna find a bigger detractor of that statement than Steph herself.
Jaxon Bennett
>>114932868Which makes her best girl because Babs is a stuck up whore and Cassie is perpetually emo.
Lucas Green
>>114933005Can’t argue with Babs being stuck-up (though I find it endearing), but Cass is more multi-faceted than some people think. She can be optimistic, funny, and straight-up cocky.
Austin Cook
>>114933172Cass is a treasure. And she plays off well against Steph and Babs. I really feel like we're missing out the longer they're apart.
Dylan Turner
>>114933225And missing out for what? Babs creating a love triangle for herself and Steph getting a line or two per issue because of how bloated YJ’s cast is? Ugh. At least Cass is getting some quality mother-daughter time.
Jacob Kelly
>>114933600>And missing out for what? Babs creating a love triangle for herself and Steph
Christopher Morgan
>>114926663Honestly Harper stole more of Steph’s personality than Babs did. It was just hard to tell because by the time Babs and Steph started interacting again, the leeching was already complete and Steph was just another well-off peppy girl.
Dylan Hughes
>>114933225DC even did an official blog post about their friendship, so they know. They just won't do anything about it. Though now that The Great Darkness that was Didio is gone, who knows.dccomics.com
Robert Thomas
>>114933994>just another well-off peppy girl.Steph has been through some shit. Yet her smile persists in spite of it. Mainly because she's a gusty little cuss and doesn't want the hardship to beat her. She's stubborn, and charming, and funny, and will always reach for that bit of sunshine. Because she knows well what lurks in the dark and it's just not in herself to let it consume her.
Xavier Davis
>>114934137
Jack Rodriguez
>>114934137Steph should be cheerful, but I think it’s important to contrast it with those occasional moments of anger, insecurity, and deadpan “are you seeing this shit”ness. Most of the writers that have handled her post-Flashpoint seem to only be able to do one or the other.Great summary, by the way. Steph’s the best.
Robert Evans
>>114933920Could’ve been a proper Babs-likes-Steph-likes-Nick-likes-Babs kind of triangle for how uninterested Babs seemed in him. He’d still be better than Bard though.
Isaac Perry
>>114934451I also like how she can switch to Straight-Man whenever she has somebody sunnier than herself. It's fun.
Jack Richardson
Kevin Nelson
>>114934826He's too much of a cop, and Babs was working through some shit. The timing was off, but I still think it could have been fun if the book had gone on longer. At this point, anyone is better than Jason Bard. Especially Killer Moth!
Easton Jenkins
Adam Nguyen