Idtech, Build and other similar engines

Doom Clones thread
Yes we have a Doom thread, but let's talk about the games that were originated from these engines.

Games welcome:
-Wolfestein3D
-Rise of the Triad
-Heretic
-Hexen
-Strife
-Chex Quest
-Douk3D
-Blood
-Shadow Warrior
-Star Wars: Dark Forces

Post mods, music, or whatever related to these games. Other obscure games using these engines are also welcome.

Other urls found in this thread:

darkxl.wordpress.com/
gog.com/forum/star_wars_dark_forces_series/dark_forces_plus_basically_vanilla_mouse_look_an_alternative_to_darkxl/post1
gog.com/forum/star_wars_dark_forces_series/dark_forces_plus_basically_vanilla_mouse_look_an_alternative_to_darkxl/post16
moddb.com/mods/nuclear-showdown-redux/news/nuclear-showdown-v21-released
pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Marathon#Field_of_view_.28FOV.29
sheepshaver.cebix.net/
redundantrobot.com/#/sheepshaver
winworldpc.com/library/
blogsocialingot.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/the-ingot-sessions-getting-to-know-greg-kirkpatrick/
resurrection.bungie.org/index.html
youtube.com/watch?v=uPXyPgb3fWE
forums.duke4.net/topic/4857-top-shooter/
jkhub.org/files/file/1540-dark-forces-mod/
please
jkhub.org/files/file/1540-dark-forces-mod/#commentsStart
twitter.com/freschism/status/458908760975876097).
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

DOOM 1 + 2 and the build engine games are the only ones worth playing.
You're welcome.
Correct.

if only dark forces was less of a pain to run (i can run it fine but dosbox is still finnicky)

please play me

Blood + Deathwish mod. Whole lot of fun.

Try this
darkxl.wordpress.com/

Is there a way to always run in Dark Forces?

The gameplay just isn't there.
Best story ever in a game though.

That is a real pain in the ass to run for when I tried last time. Needs OpenAL and shit.

also don't forget about marathon

Open source gives you the freedom to manually download a bunch of bullshit just to get things running shittily. It's the future.

Or you could not be a little kid and already own it.

oh and that too

Just shilling this.

I tried the source ports of those recently. They either haven't aged well or were always shit.

Bombshell prequel coming out "when it's done". Screenshots look neat.

false

try this instead
gog.com/forum/star_wars_dark_forces_series/dark_forces_plus_basically_vanilla_mouse_look_an_alternative_to_darkxl/post1
gog.com/forum/star_wars_dark_forces_series/dark_forces_plus_basically_vanilla_mouse_look_an_alternative_to_darkxl/post16

Yeah but you still have to play as an impossibly ugly and unlikable dyke. What would her quips even be?

have you played bombshell?
its not so bad, but it could be worse

Could you elaborate? Is the gameplay good enough to compensate for the manjawed dyke?

How hard is it to mod the BUILD engine?

>pic related is moddb.com/mods/nuclear-showdown-redux/news/nuclear-showdown-v21-released

Like ZDoom…?

Why are you begging people to play, what kind of weak ass shilling is this?


Well it's basically one of the most influential games of it's time since it actually tried to tell you a story, and to this day I have yet to be impressed by other games introducing their aliens' spaceship. And it was by Bungie, so if you want to see what an evolution of their game design culminating into Halo there you go.

The story that spans the three games is the most batshit insane story in video game history. Also the best story. It's just a bummer that the actual game sucks.

I didn't mind the gameplay.

The actual gameplay is good (save for Marathon 1, maybe) coming from someone who played a lot of Marathon fanscenarios on Total Carnage, however the average quality of the level design in Marathon (especially Marathon 1) fails to always take advantage of the present gameplay. Marathon 2 is a massive improvement in that regard as it gives you more room to dodge and balances out any remaining problems in weapon and enemy balance M1 had, save for any swimming you have to do because you can't shoot underwater, Duke Nukem 3D handled water much better, although it couldn't control water level, flow or direction in real-time like Marathon 2 did. Marathon Infinity is just borderline experimental. Marathon's level design in general involves more meandering than combat, in a sense it's very similar to Unreal in that regard, though that doesn't appeal to everyone.

The reason I like the gameplay in Marathon so much is that it's pretty much a first-person shmup considering nearly every enemy fires projectiles. In massive quantities, the amount of projectiles you have to dodge rivals a danmaku, as you are trying to find a hole while trying not to get hit, and killing the enemy at the same time. Troopers have hitscan, but only if you approach them from close-range. And that's why it's important to know how inflicting hitstun works to not get hit. Marathon relies more on fixed shield rechargers than energy tanks, and so you want to avoid damage at all because there is no medkit around the corner. All the weapons are balanced greatly (Bungie largely tested Marathon for its multiplayer) and functionally they're great to use. It's also why I prefer Marathon Phoenix over the original trilogy, as it focuses on the combat more and BY GOD are its levels great. The only problem is that you have to switch through your arsenal with NextWeapon/PrevWeapon buttons rather than individual keybinds for each weapon because the Aleph One sourceport is an old piece of shit.

The biggest downside to Marathon for me has more to do with the technical issues.

Specifically how the devs of Aleph one have refused to fix the broken mouse look and fov issues.

They've stated they don't want to fix fov because it would apparently break demo playback for demos made via the vanilla engine. And don't want to fix mouselook because apparently most of the old school Marathon players actually play the game with a keyboard.

It pisses me off so much. Especially since the XBLA port fixed the FOV and even added xinput to it. Something that the devs of Aleph one also don't want to do.

Anyway in terms of Marathon it's a good trilogy of games but you do need to bare in mind how labyrinthine the entire franchise is. Also how much you have to pay attention to the terminals. Since some of them just tell you "explore around and report back here" and I completely forgot I had to go back to the start of the level to end it.

Also one other thing is how adamant the devs are against spending time creating a modern level editor

It's a huge problem that the fanbase has since a lot of people have to either emulate the original Apple 2 operating system or use crappier fanmade level editors.

I could easily imagine a level editor on the scale of Build or Trenchbroom for Marathon that would add even more longevity to it but none of the devs behind the project seem to be interested.

The Build engine used to be the easiest FPS engine to mod. Especially since it shipped with the Build level editor which was very very easy to use.

However in recent years it's been outstripped by Doom due to Doombuilder and Trenchbroom for Quake which are both leagues easier. If you do plan on creating levels for it, it's suggested to use Mapster32. Which is the level editor included with eduke32. It's much more stable.

Another factor is how the engine uses different file formats, like all of the game's data is stored in a single file that has to be modified. And it's generally not suited towards total conversion mods like Doom is. It's why the bulk of the modding community for Duke is just fanmade levels and not so much big total conversions like Pirate Doom.

Trenchbroom is the best map editor I've ever used.

How do you not have OpenAL?

So have you actually played the Mods yet? Some damn good total conversions. There is even a fan sequal Marathon Eternity with the original song writer Craig Hardgrove doing most of the soundtrack for free.

It's hard to find a level editor that's more user friendly and inviting than Trenchbroom.

Especially since Trenchbroom 2 has added support for Quake 2 and HeXen 2. And has optional 2D views that can be triggered via the spacebar similar to Maya.

I would but the shite fov has made me really dislike playing Marathon for long stretches on my widescreen monitor. I have to play it on my 4:3 monitor instead.

This was only celebrated due to sour grapes from mac users who couldnt play doom.

Doom had a Mac port user

The Mac OS port even came out around the same time iirc

Marathon was moreso a game that tried to do things Doom didn't. Like how it was story driven, had the 5D space thing going on (how it accomplished room over room by using a complex series of algorithms that allowed areas to exist in the same place but not at the same time as each other), and how it had things like reloading and alternate fire.

It was also seen as a more Mac specific game back when the two platforms were almost akin to islands compared to each other. It was rare at the time that people who used Macs ever used DOS unless they had to. And vice versa. Partially due to cost.

A shame, whelp luckily you can just download the soundtrack for free. I like both the original and the remixes.

it's possible to manually set your own FOV for the Marathon games using a script as is outlined here
pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Marathon#Field_of_view_.28FOV.29


Another thing many people don't know is that Marathon probably had the best multiplayer out of all 2.5D shooters as its multiplayer was really tightly tested (even more than the singleplayer, something very apparent in M1), especially considering Bungie knew the potential of online multiplayer gaming even back then. Any macfag LAN party would often involve Marathon
It featured many original game modes which would be featured in Halo and other shooters, and had a lot of built-in multiplayer maps, although Doom and Douk trounce Marathon when it comes to custom multiplayer content made over the years

nowadays you can only get a 1v1 match going if you wait long enough, perhaps we should all get some netgames going

Wrong.
You just have shit taste.

Is it open source? Then you can just program in the features you want.

Since you mentioned there was an actual fov issue and only Marathon 2 has made me puke while playing a game, is there a way to mod the game to fix the fov?

Honestly, I don't think she's that bad of a character. I'll take cyborg-armed dyke over sexy cheerleader any time when I'm the protagonist.

She's still no Kate Archer though.

...

see

The sourceport itself is not open source last time I checked, however the games themselves are. Unfortunately, there's not much interest in creating a sourceport for a trilogy of obscure exclusive Mac games for a fan community which is largely deader than dead. It's a miracle Aleph One is still being worked on, apparently 60fps support is due next update, but the date of the next update is still unknown.

Since the thread has now been hijacked by Marathon, what do you think should be done for a possible Marathon 4 or reboot (ignore what the industry in general would do, just think of your own vision)?

You actually like hexen and heretic? That's almost cute.

In the case of a sequel (not like anyone is excited to play a sequel to a trilogy of story-heavy games released in the 90's) I'd love to see either you and Durandal helping the UESC finally toppling the Pfhor Empire as was foretold in the epilogue of Marathon 2 (Rubicon tried to do the same thing, but it assumed the UESC could just waltz right through Pfhor defenses despite having no previous space warfare experience, and taking the story branch which let you kill off the Pfhor High Council themselves gives you a complete non sequitur ending where a large part of humanity is eradicated by a corporate made virus as that corporation takes over, only because you failed to destroy a reactor in time way before which has barely any impact on anything at all)
While I'd love to follow Durandal's adventures and (impossible) ascension to godhood post-Pfhor, I fear it'd be treading too much in Halo 4 territory with introducing bigger and ancienter evils. Infinity already did that with the Wr'kncacnter which was already foreshadowed in Marathon 2 anyways. At the very least I'd like to see what a rampant Leela is up to in the hands of the Nar.

In the case of a reboot, I'd still stick to text-based terminals, I can't find it in me to give a look and sound to the AIs. For the Marathon itself, the levels should at least try to look like the interior of a colony ship rather than an abstract set of moving platforms and corridors. Even Doom had more background detail than that. I also wish it could start faster rather than having to plink a bunch of Fighters with your pistols for the first few levels until you get the AR. Maybe have the pistols fire semi-automatically and increase the bolt speed of Fighters to make them actually more of a threat (while you should have enough space to dodge them in reasonable time). I'd also like to see more interactions with BoBs and such, from seeing BoBs getting killed in brutal ways (the games always treated their lives like a joke) to just trying to survive the Pfhor.

I'd also like to see more variation in projectiles, while projectile types in Marathon were different from another, I feel like you could do a lot more, like spread shots, area of denials, shit that forces you to jump, and so on. Punching things should feel more powerful too.

Are you going to keep the save and healing points or use quick/autosaves along with scattered medpacks?

I suppose I'd keep them, as it is part of Marathon's identity
I don't think it's any better or worse than medkits and quicksaving, it all comes down to execution mostly. No save terminals at the start of a level is just as frustrating as stretches with no medkits at all.
Personally I prefer savepoints as I'm more comfortable around the notion of playing by the game's rules rather than being able to quicksave whenever and having no idea when it's too little or too much. Though that does raise the point whether being able to constantly return to a shield recharger for a full health refill is any better, but from personal experience I can tell that doing so is not any fun at all and should be done when the trek is actually worth your time. As Marathon is quite hard overall despite the player technically being able to dodge 90% of all attacks due to a profound lack of full-hitscan enemies, I do appreciate having save terminals. In games like Doom and Blood I take a 'restart level on death' approach, so from my perspective the healing items will carry you in the long term while dying will bring you all the way back, while in Marathon death (depending on the level) won't fling you all the way back, however there's a larger focus on dodging shit entirely due to a lack of medkits.
There's also an interesting dynamic where you can afford to be risky if near a save terminal/shield recharger, but have to play more carefully the further away you are from one and focus on exploring to find another one. Tanking blows in Marathon is generally a bad idea in the long term, unless you plan on backtracking all the time.

Is it bad that I don't really like Duke3D that much? The weapons in it feel a little on the weak side, especially the shotgun.

The guy who wrote for all 3 Marathon games left the industry a long time, he's the whole reason Marathon, while a sub-par shooter in my opinion, has such an interesting story and setting, and without that Marathon would not be even as half as interesting as it is now.

The shotgun is a bit underwhelming compared to other shotguns, but you can't say that the pistol does not feel good

Yes, it would be great to have modern editors as good as Forge and Anvil. But they were on classic Mac OS, not the Apple 2. And it's not too hard to emulate, here's everything you need:

SheepShaver: > sheepshaver.cebix.net/
ROMs: > redundantrobot.com/#/sheepshaver
Mac OS 9.0.4: > winworldpc.com/library/

Yup, Greg Kirkpatrick, heard he became a teacher or something after Double Aught couldn't find a publisher and ran out of money.

Pretty much, he left Bungie together with some other peeps to start a company called Double Aught who would make Marathon Infinity while Bungie was making Myth. After that, Double Aught was working on an ambitious FPS called Duality, which was shaping up to be quite something if extensive trips to their old website and any other info I could dig up through the Wayback Machine, but they ran outta money and they eventually petered out. He'd then work as a physics teacher in NY before leaving because of the dysfunctional education board. After that he worked at some dotcom company around the burst and studied geology, before ending up at a company which advertises casual gaming (much like Bungie co-founder Alex Seropian, hue).

Here's an article I found about him:
blogsocialingot.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/the-ingot-sessions-getting-to-know-greg-kirkpatrick/

I think the guy had some talent for making/writing videogames, even if his level designs were not all that great (ACME STATION), but I do think he should give it another shot if the chance ever arises for him to work on Marathon again.

one day

Yes I'm aware of that

I remember when I tried doing it Forge would either crash or produce a map that Marathon then wouldn't read.

The only map editor I was able to run was Weyland.

Man, they should have open-sourced Duality after the company collapsed, maybe the community could have put the pieces together and completed it. Not very likely, but after someone completely recreated Marathon in the Unreal Engine, it wouldn't surprise me too much.

That is if there are any pieces left, I don't think I've ever seen anything from that project on the internet.

I'd guess the map file got corrupted when you tried to copy it from the emulated Mac to a PC. I recall from my long-gone macfag days that this was tricky.

Some dev back in the day who worked at Valve remade a Marathon multiplayer map in both Half Life 1 and Half Life 2 deathmatch

That's neat, but how about this - Marathon has been completely remade as an UT mod. I wish they'd do the same for the sequels.

resurrection.bungie.org/index.html

I thought this mod was pretty amateur. The animations were garbage and the model work was really clumsy. They did try to replicate the physics though.

There was an attempt to remake just the multiplayer in Half-Life's engine but it wasn't finished. It's a shame since it was pretty promising. I'd imagine it'd be easier than ever to finish this mod because Half-Life's source code has been released.

moar:

Don't forget the licensed games Prime Target, ZPC, and especially Damage Inc., an early tactical FPS whose RTS functions are IMHO still unequaled in some regards today.


Not this meme again. Mouselook feels the same as when Marathon shipped, and the state in which most of us played it even back in the day. I.E.: Perfect.


I think Bungie should stop doing retreads (M2/M∞ were fun games, but I think that's where the mistake began). We need more companies doing stuff like the wild divergence between Minotaur, PiD, Marathon, Myth, Oni, and the earlier versions of Halo. Instead, Bungie turned Halo into a dumbed down Marathon knockoff with the role of vehicles and outdoors greatly scaled down, now Destiny is a retread of Halo that is in many ways even more simplified.

Sequel/reboot aside, though, I'd love somebody to do a really polished remake along the lines of Black Mesa, since is a bit long in the tooth. Maybe a faithful modern remake of PiD rather than the (cool but obviously different in theme) Doom 3 mod while we're at it.


iD was never a game developer after Wolf3D, iD served primarily as the engine tech division of Raven.

Glad to see I ain't the only one who played it.

Still has few nasty bugs, like shotgun using twice the ammo and losing artifact guns for no reasons when I go getting new shit from that gunrunner.

pls email [email protected]/* */ if you're a cat named sakamoto and want a cute furret to lick your paws
Make her wear a stupid party hat, take some pictures, then give her a treat

...

pls email [email protected]/* */ if you're a cat named sakamoto and want a cute furret to lick your paws
God I have never wanted to eat ass this much. youtube.com/watch?v=uPXyPgb3fWE

pls email [email protected]/* */ if you're a cat named sakamoto and want a cute furret to lick your paws

since FreeBSD is functionally identical to early Linux, what are the benefits of using it over Linux; is the source code cleaner? are processes easier to micromanage?

like?

God bless you, dumper, and your refined taste

which is better?? … in your opinion

isn't there an easier way to join?

very, very unlikely. The last anyone's heard from him was that 2011 interview IIRC.

It's really hard to call it perfect. Even a dev on Github has been working to fix it.

I just want it to behave similarly to something like Quake and so I don't have to remember I'm playing a game people used to control via the arrow keys.


It's unlikely to happen to that extent. If it did they'd make a shitton of concessions. Like I would expect at a bare minimum

This isn't true

Id's relationship with Raven software was only due to the work of John Romero. John Carmack didn't want to license out Id's engines because he saw it as a huge waste of time giving tech support to third party companies when he should've been focusing on Quake.

Id was fully committed to developing Doom, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3, and Doom 3 after Wolfenstein 3D. They also licensed out their franchises to other developers like Grey Matter. At around the time of Doom 3 Raven software was already on it's own decline and it's hard to really compare their titles like Elite Force, Jedi Outcast and Soldier of Fortune with games like Singularity and Quake 4.

While you could make an argument that post Quake Id was more focused on engine technology, they still did make games and Raven wasn't the only company they licensed their tech to.

Mandala painter.

That's bretty gud.

What about Q3A custom maps? I've always been a fan of the cyberpunk/gothic aesthetic and architecture of Quake III maps. As much as I like blocky-looking maps, they have a charm that previous games don't have.

There's plenty of Quake 3 custom maps but the map editor options for that engine are much more limited. Like the biggest map editor people use is gtkradiant since it's been around for a really long time and has a lot of compatibility with other games released on the engine. Like Raven's Quake 3 games.

It is very possible to make a less blocky Quake 1 map but it just takes talent with the map editor and the engine. Because source ports have extended the limits that the engines used to have with detail there are very few differences between all of Id Tech's engines aside from major things Id added later like skeletal animation and nicer lighting.

Eh, it's the mouselook I grew up with. Combined with the limited up/down angle, the soft autocenter, and the exact vertical/horizontal bias, everything about it just feels flawlessly comfy to me in the heat of combat. Tell me you don't turn crosshairs on, at least.

With all the Halobabbies and swarms of hipsters (seriously, I NEVER remember seeing this many Bungie fans back in the day, there's no way most of them played it then) I actually wouldn't be too surprised if it's accumulated enough n00b fans in larger modding communities for this to happen. There's even a core of our own genuine oldfags who work in the industry now, like Ian McConville.

Also, in spite of all kinds of total conversion mods and HD texture/sprite revamps, we've managed to avoid a meme mod like Brutal Doom from completely displacing the original games' essential experience in the way that inevitably led to DOOD happening.

Relax, I was just making a sarcastic jab at the quality of iD's techdemosgames.

Speaking seriously, though, while id's games are fun in a simple, essentialist way, Raven's are true timeless classics, and I think the symbiotic division of labor between the two was a key part of it.

I love the angular and snug quake maps like that, thanks for sharing.

I think that has more to do with how the developers of Aleph One don't want to remove things like limits the engine had on map size. I'd assume it also has hard limits on things like how many entities you can have in a map and animations.

I remember the developer of Oblige, the random level generator for Doom. Said that he would be unable to allow the generator to work with Marathon because of how Aleph One still contained all of the engine's hard limits.

It's a big reason why I think modding for Marathon has slowly died off. The devs of Aleph One have even showed a great deal of hostility to making the engine fully 3D similar to Zdoom. Which in of itself greatly increased the amount of Doom modifications that were being made. This purist mindset to "we wanna play Marathon identically to how it was played in 1994" has really made the fanbase stagnate and I feel has lead to how forgotten the series is compared to something like Doom. Which still has modifications being made to this day by people who weren't even born in the 90s.

God-like levels.

Why even bother

Is the guy who developed Arcane Dimensions a professional mapper working at an AAA company? those levels look too damn good. Reminds me of the unofficial Quake episode made by Machine Games recently.

It really isn't that hard with Trenchbroom. Map design in general is just time consuming and just takes practice learning how you can cut corners. Like how most big time Quake mappers back in the day made all of their complex geometry in separate confined maps and would just copy/paste them into what they were working on. So instead of making a big elaborate cliffside or staircase you'd just take one you already made and copy/paste it into your next map. Which cuts down on the workload considerably.

Levels of this scale weren't possible until comparatively recently due to sourceports like Darkplaces and Quakespasm removing the limits in the engine allowing for much more massive worlds and more modern tools being made for them.

You can do that? Holy shit that would speed up time, to the Quake Mobile.

Is that chipboard? I'm interested in getting a cameo 3 but would want to cut chipboard with it often.

It's actually something modelers and CAD designers do a lot of. They'll copy/paste a lot and optimize what they spend time meticulously creating with what they can just clone, resize and move.

This was actually something you pretty much needed to do in much older engines like in Half-Life. Due to how complicated the geometry usually was and how you had to assign scripts to it to do complex functions. Like I remember the vending machines in Half-Life were provided in a map all on their own with all of the scripts intact purely so you could copy/paste them into your own map and they'd work exactly the same. It would just be too laborious having to create each vending machine over and over when it's easier to just build one and copy/paste it.

It's how a lot of veteran Quake mappers create really complex maps in just a few hours when it takes a newbie literal months to do. Because they've practiced so much with optimizing their workflow and optimizing their time. Which is basically all skill with the editor really is.

who wears rubber gloves to wash a few plates at home

why even wash plates by hand, just throw them in the dishwasher

are there slaughter maps for DN3D?

...

...

That's because the enemy count is clearly a lot lower.

Is that a game engine limitation? surely they can fit in more enemies

Nevertheless, they look pretty fun, I might try them sometime

Rangiku Matsumoto from Bleach.
Origin from Bleach
Mist from Pokemon.
Seras from Helsing.
Kallen from Code Geass
Someone from Naruto.

Pretty low quality images makes it hard to identify em though.

Polanski because he got away with it.

I had this for a bit recently but it just went a way after a bit.

Brutal Quake when?

There is a brutal half-life

There's just something about that mod that just doesn't feel right, tho

Maybe the "Brutal $game" gimmick doesn't work on every game

you can still play. the catch is you gotta get your girl to play. and then only play with her. always.

...

Nigger, some of build engine commercial games were straight Douk TCs, like NAM/WWII GI.
Dood 2 outdone Douk because Dood 2 was open source for longer time = there is dozen of modder friendly modernized sourceports for it, unlike for Douk where you get either vanilla multiplayer xduke/hduke or modder broken multi eduke32.

Before ZDoom 2.x series jduke/eduke/eduke32 had some of most interesting TC projects around going.

So will the Cuck Bros sound like young urban gentleman in it?

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Sanic Furfaghog: Going Autismally Fast on Douk3d engine

Poor mans Grand Theft Auto

Some shit ass topdown shooter done by a fucking raghead running on Douk engine
forums.duke4.net/topic/4857-top-shooter/
Doesn't seem to be any gameplay of this on jewtube

Played the Steam version of Dark Forces recently, it was pretty neat but those fucking Kell Dragons were a bitch (I played the whole game on hard).

I gave a shit about the story, and had no idea what the fuck was happening. Game is shit.

nuts.wad runs like crap because zdoom is crap performance wise.
See how well it can run in prboom+, also see vids description

HL1 wasn't supposed to be brutal in first place. Though, HL2 was brutal as fuck in some parts.

It's in the same engine as Dark Forces for fucks sake.

The GoG version worked for me (Win7) with no issues if you can't be arsed using DarkXL

There's also an absolutely perfect TC mod that ported the first 6 levels of the original Dark Forces into Jedi Academy before the project collapsed:
jkhub.org/files/file/1540-dark-forces-mod/

At last! The only other FPS that did it, as far as I know, was Zero Tolerance for the Sega Genesis. It's been over twenty years!

What the fug. I didn't know nuts.wad could run so well.

Are the zdoom/gzdoom devs aware of the sourceport's performance issues?

Pretty sure DN3D had streaks.

user I…
You're supposed to run past them like in return of the jedi and the rancor

Was there ever a more amusing enemy than Blood's cultists shouting at you in pseudo-latin?

...

It had bloodstain sprites that get slowly stretched downwards if they're on walls. But I guess that counts.

...

Would be super cool I think.

Doom
RPG
27
Less manipulation by the developers to the audience is all I ask for.
Furry

BASTE

that first video is obnoxious as fuck

I've never really tried 8-bit deathmatch. Is it updated often?

I'm still not sure what his motivation was.

Anyone else tried out Gloom Deluxe, Alien Breed 3D and Alien Breed 3D II: The Killing Grounds? those run amazingly in the right configuration on WinUAE. oh and they all play better with a pad (emulated as a CD32 pad). you need to use WHDLoad versions though, requiring a Workbench 3.1 install on a VHD. (UAEGFX and an A4000T Fastest config best for it)

darkxl is still very incomplete afaik

might have to look at that in the future at least

i grabbed the game on steam but more because my disk doesn't work anymore (i have the cd)

that was a real nice TC.

Memes that are still funny the 10th times you've seen them don't exist.

Fucking hell when, when is codenigger going to fix this Bui spam shit

Yeah, it looks exactly like JKJO expanded with DF assets, but everything about the behavior down to physics and weapon animations conforms precisely to DF. It's rare for a TC to hit that perfect sweet spot.

Watch Kiki's Delivery Service

What server listings? It's on all the voting sites and it's on the mid-rate list on ratemyserver.

11 was fucking epic. I use to sleep in my sleeping bag next to my pc waiting for party invites in jeuno. The last mmo to award time and patients put in vs dual wielding credit cards for micro transaction attacks. Even ffxiv 2.0 has been dumb down for weekend warriors.

And they were shit

There were TCs for Duke but they tended more towards either fleshed out map packs for Duke or just became their own full game.

It's largely because if you wanted to just make a map you were reliant on using existing .grp files unless you created your own and got the game to read off it instead. It's why like I said the engine was geared more towards using the vanilla assets rather than creating your own expansions like with Doom's more simple .wad system.

At least that would give me a chance to watch all of the inevitable cringe and laugh. Pokken is just boring.

I don't think that really matters now considering how old the source codes for all of the games are now. I think it's more that newer engines like gzdoom have long made Build obsolete and have a significantly more friendly license (since the Doom engine is gpl wheras the Build engine uses a custom license that forbids commercial use).

This thread is pretty much over, but I'll offer some that haven't been mentioned

Sky Odyssey is a dope-ass arcade flying game and the soundtrack is done by Kow Otani of Shadow of the Colossus fame

Ape Escape 3 is worth a playthrough

Katamari Damacy and its sequel, We

THIS BABY IS SO CUTE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH I WANT TO PINCH ITS CHEEKS

What about compatibility with other Tech 2 games like Kingpin or Soldier of Fortune, is that in the works? I'd play the shit out of a Kingpin or SOF mod

gzdoom is a sourceport of doom2 engine you nig, not some "different newer engine"
Nobody develops TCs/mods for original untouched doom2/build engines because they wont run on anything newer than win98 and before you bring it up, Doom95 was a source port of original Doom as well, done by MS and the code behind it isn't available to the public
My original post was already about projects running around source ports.

Commercial use license doesn't really matter - how many commercial games made on zdoom/gzdoom you ever played or at least heard of? I'm not even remotely sure if those licenses REALLY allow that, probably not - original doom source code was released under 2 different licenses, and so did ZDoom up to version 1.28/1.29

His point is simply that greater attention from coders has inverted the technical gap between IdTech and Build insofar as their modern source ports are concerned, which combined with Doom's larger modding scene, means more sophisticated and numerous mods on the Doom side now.

If he thinks there were a lack of full TCs for Build back in the day, though, I agree with you he's smoking loco weed.

That's more or less my original post point tho.
Doom retained most of its playerbase and modderbase. Mostly because community could pick up the support for it much earlier - you had whole Doom game and engine source codes released already in 97, with server/client source ports appearing as soon as year 2000.
By late 2000 you had full Build engine source code, and Duke 3D source with 3DRealms modifications to the Build weren't available until 2003.
Because of that Duke's first source ports didn't start appearing until like 2005, and it's multiplayer still relies on peer2peer where you need to join game room, hoster has to manually launch it and nobody can join already ongoing game. insert EDuke32's failed attempt at creating server/client netcode for duke here

With all the trouble it took to play Duke 3D, especially online, playerbase started shrinking damn fast after 2006, from 50~100 concurrent online negros at DukesterX + hardly countable duke4 forums dwellers to about 5~20 concurrent players in 2016 at duke3donline Meltdown / 0~5 at YANG + ded gaem forums.

I hope Jace Hall somehow manages to get his hands on the Blood license/source code. I'd fucking love a proper reboot, a la Doom '16.

Well Trenchbroom 2 is still in beta and still has tons of bugs. In terms of compatibility with other id tech games on the same engine I'd assume it wouldn't be that big of an issue

He has access to the source code.

Rather Warner Bros/Atari doesn't want him to release it.

please use archive.is/atari-shuts-down-jace-hall-s-blood-re-release-245108.phtml

So, a self-fellating mess that didn't understand the design of the original at all?

No thank you, Caleb deserves better.

That one always gets me.

Just finished BloodCM, lots of fun. Not as good as Doom 2, but the weapons are nice, it's got good enemy variety, and I loved the aesthetic.

I don't like CM. You can't buffer weapon switches on firing cooldown, cultists dynamite explodes on impact (and it's extremely fucking powerful), zombies get up way faster, etc. Considering what it is, it is pretty damn cool though.

Dark Forces was my first PS1 game.

I am actually somewhat intrigued by this. I usually try and keep my hopes down, but I'm really pulling for this to be good.

CODEMONKEY LET ME POST

Wrong, you're supposed to punch them to death LIKE A MAN.
In fact, you CAN NOT PROCEED until you've punched the first one to death.
It is required.

Not to mention that the platforming section in the next room automatically resets when a Kell Dragon is nearby, so killing at least some of them is required.
Also it gives you 10 thermal detonators which is enough to kill one of them with.

Fucking finally.

Wait, that thing is a prequel to this Bombshell? That seems rather strange.

Yes, it was essentially advertising.

bumping for interests. Sith engine was petty good too. For basically being an modified version of Dark Forces, Jedi engine, which was a reverse engineered doom engine.

Why can't levels ever be as big as they where in Jedi Knight, ever again?

Oh cool, one of the other 2 people to play Outlaws.

(checked)
But user, casuals get lost in large levels that branch both left *and* right. Keeping them on a linear path is the only way to make sure they see all the cool cinematic stuff our film school reject writing staff came up with. :)

Devs are utterly terrified of the idea that all the content in the game is only ever seen by a small pool of players, the fact the games they sell have a huge majority of players giving up after the first part of the game from datamining on Steam when they had the opportunity to do so via achievements execs absolutely lost their shit.

Do you know you can group all your files in GRP files and launch them via the command line, just like WADs for Doom? This kind of comment really gets under my skin, like people making mods for Quake-based engines demanding you to backup your main directory and overwrite it with the mod's file, instead of using their own directory.

Pretty much this. Achievements are a perfect datamine for devs. And really who can blame them if only about 1 to 2% of people really give a fuck and go of the rails.

Reminds me of those studies about how free demos of PC games tanked sales, causing publishers to nix the production of demos since the 2010s.

The duke RPG is the most satisfying rocket launcher type weapon of any game. Shrink Ray is amazing. Duke has the best weapons of any fps.

Duke3D is only playable on Damn I'm Good; enemies respawn unless gibbed and you will realize the weapons, weapon placement, and game in general are balanced for this mode. Played this way the hitscan weapons are just for knocking down weak enemies in a pile so you can gib them with a pipe bomb or devastator pellet. It also makes the ice gun and shrink ray way more important and used.

I disagree with the characterization of the shotgun as weak feeling or unsatisfying, but in the scheme of the game's balance it's not even supposed to be that strong anyway.

...

jkhub.org/files/file/1540-dark-forces-mod/#commentsStart

They where doing a pretty good job too.

It's frustrating to know the source code for Kingpin has been found a couple of years ago when Interceptor bought a bunch of stuff from 3D Realms, but they cannot release it because they have no idea who owns the rights to the game (twitter.com/freschism/status/458908760975876097). I would gladly look into it.

The other annoying thing is that Xatrix changed so much of the original player physics that it would likely be a pain in the ass to work back from Quake II sources and rebuild missing features…

I read that the game had crazy levels of optimization because they had just started to use Windows and multi threading was a new thing they could do. At the time in terms of graphics it was slightly bellow average but they were able to get the game to render these massive spaces very efficiently.

Most of the optimizations are invisible unless you've ever tried making maps for the game. One example of optimization is that enemies are literally spawned in when you enter a room. If you watch a speedrun of Jedi Knight when they sequence break they run through parts of levels with no enemies because they haven't spawned in.

It would actually be significantly easier to finish this mod today due to Jedi Outcast/academy's source code release. It would be possible to make the gunplay as close to the original as physically possible.

This isn't actually a unique thing. It's also something that could get the developer in really hot water if it was actually leaked.

Blood is the most famous example of a game where someone has the source code but hasn't released it because of legal issues.

There are other examples of games where the source code is being held by someone but due to an agreement they haven't released it to the public. A good example is Wing Commander 3's source code was given by EA to a fan community for "long term preservation" because they badgered them about it for a while. But aren't allowed to release it to the public yet. Presumably the only reason EA gave it to them is because they expect they'd probably hold onto it in case they'd ever want to re-release the game properly.

You have shit taste.

God I love it after that. Technically, a Jedi should be able to pull all this off too, so its even in canon.
I swear I played that game so many times I started doing some of the shit they did. I'm tempted to actually try one.

So I'm following this dude's advice and making a game out of quake but the last bit about pak0.pak confounds me as I don't have that file in my ID1 folder. Do I have the wrong version or something?

I have a pak0 in mine. You should probably reinstall the game.

Quake based games use Pak files which are essentially proprietary zip files that just keep all of the game's data. It's essentially just them adopting the same idea as wad files from Doom.

Personally I recommend not using Quake 1's engine (unless you wanna use a source port like Darkplaces) and instead use something like Quake 2 or Quake 3.

One big reason is because Quake 1 and 2 lack support for skeletal animation. Which is painful if you want to make your own animations since you need to use vertex animations. Which is essentially stop motion.

IDtech3 looked really appealing to me but I'm also trying to familiarize myself with 3D gamedev and I don't wanna leap into an engine that's too complicated for me. Also the QuakeC code is nice because I took a few C classes in college and most of it carried over.

I'm also making a game on the Quake 2 engine so I can somewhat relate. I don't want to use Quake 1 though because QuakeC is messy and their later engines just got rid of it and used regular C for everything.

I'm trying to make a map in Trenchbroom, but I can't really find that much documentation on it.

How the fuck do I make skies, for outdoor areas? I can't figure it out.

I don't even like cheerleaders, but anything is better than a man-hating feminist.

Any one here played Total Chaos?
I can hardly believe it's a Doom mod myself.

getting nuts running on zdoom would probably require some sacrifices in side of how moddable it is, because the oldschool features are implemented on top of modern features and not the other way around

ah yeah thats pre
and you lost me.

Shadow Warrior has the most interesting levels imo. That underwater base map is just the coolest shit ever.

Blood may legitimately be one of the hardest games I have ever played.

he impregnated his mother?

I like this new roadhog hook

I get that. At the same time if you can turn things around, most people will start to come back around.

I had a girl request 3 tanks when we had 2/2/2, and we were getting fucked after we switched it up. She started to complain that it should be working even though reaper was fucking us up, and that since we weren't making it work we were bad players. As soon as we switched to 2/2/2 everything was so great that she wanted to be a team.

It teaches you that bombs are your best friend.

Man I didn't play anything this year. Why am I still here?

BALLS OF STEEL

How simple? Quake has always been a pain in the ass to mod and when I tried doing it year ago I just gave up. I did, however, make several maps for Red Faction 1.