Market Crash Imminent?

Are the bubbles about to blow? Where will it begin? When do we panic?

There hasn't been an economy thread in a while and the banks also recently came out with the FUD about BTC's blockchain.(higher energy required)

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So we're at the bull trap phase?

We may be at fear.

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Oh yes, the Petro-Yuan launches tomorrow.
China is considering to stop buying US debt

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AFAIK all crashes happen in autumn due to Q4 so it would be the bull trap.
And the media hasn't been kvetching that much, but it's probably due to being the mainstream propaganda channel.
What I'm interested in is what is Trump going to do? I remember one yid back in January kvetching that they control the narrative so no one knows what can happen if unforeseen circumstances happen to happen.

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*they don't

The kikes dropped the Shemitah a while back though so all their financial resources might be on hold, they could pull the trigger being nervous.

Oh boy that'd be fun.

inb4 shills claim that the shemitah shit "didn't happen"

The kikes may try to "pull it" but we live in a complex system, we have a white guy at the head of the Federal Reserve now, and the Treasury has some killers at its head now too. Last I head, Scaramucci was busy slitting throats at Import/Export too.

There's a fucking lot that's going to go on tomorrow.

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Powell was educated by Jesuits though.

IRS Reminds Cryptocurrency Holders to Pay Taxes

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Let her rip

extra extra read all about it! war on terror against terrorist china china bad bad bomb china terrorism
Unless China is (((their))) next breadbasket like America was after (((they))) finished siphoning Britain.

That is the plan.

Maybe he got raped too many times and flipped. Maybe he'll work to try to "pull it" as well. Huge moves tomorrow politically as well.

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So long shill. The stock market is stronger than ever, unemployment is about to drop below 4% and the economy is booming.
The trump bump is real, but no bump for you my little shill.

Pride comes before the fall.

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You do know he's shitposting, right?

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I fear crashes are no longer possible. If one were to compara to a forest, it's changed from temperate to rain forest. Rather than sweeping fires we now have tree falls that make massive holes that are quickly filled. The soil is poor quality, and over exertion creates dessert, but there is no sweeping change that kills it all at once.

I suspect that if there is a crash, then it will be a tech bubble bursting. Facekike, Google, and microsoft are not prepared for GDPR. Furthermore, the way that law is written, if a EU spy agency where to hack any of those companies, then they can fine those companies. They can also fine those companies for working with the EU government by handing over records.

Aside from a tech bubble bursting, it would be a massive sell off due to trade war. this might be short term pain for the unprepared, but most portfolios have been preparing for this for months now.

The Trump bump did happen, but the economy is still shit.

Faceberg is collapsing as we speak.

Yep, and it is such a great thing to watch too.

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I hope Cuckerberg gets filleted by the island niggers on Hawaii.

Poetic, and not completely off the mark. By everything that is right, the US should experience bankruptcy given it's incredibly proclivity for taking out more and more debt, and it's habit of creating money to fill budget holes (QE).

That won't happen. The Fed won't tighten once they realize we are in a recession. Instead we will see more zero interest rates, incredible amounts of money being created in QE4, Q5 etc.

The value of all this newly created cheap money will come from the existing dollars, from your paycheck, savings and debt. It won't feel like a crash, but your living cost will become higher and higher, your gasoline will cost a fortune, and you will get nothing in retirement.

The dollar is no longer going to be the world currency. The argument is sometimes made that for the dollar to stop being world currency, another fiat currency would have to replace it, which is nonsensical. Gold has always been money, the dollar was just a certificate to gold that was convenient to handle. The dollars was originally pitched as becoming world currency due to the link with gold, and the fact that the US had most of the worlds gold.

Keep watch of the gold price even if you don't own gold, you will see what I mean.

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fuck I hope so. With all my short positions and put options I'll end up a millionnaire several times over.

one man's sell-off is another man's buy-in.

Anyone paying attention to Iraq? They just ratified their National Oil Law and put out 1000 arrest warrants for corrupt officials, including the ex Prime Minister.

t. Dinar holder

Fuck off OP

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Somebody has to purchase the debt though, else the Fed would create hyperinflation.

The Fed is who buys the debt. The US government is in debt to the Fed.

Won't the dollar just collapse at some point when people realize that it's just being manipulated to support bailouts of unsustainable policy?

Why panic if you don't own stocks? Just buy some short positions and make money from it.
I own stocks and I don't know what to do with them but I also bought some short positions on friday for S&P and made something from it.

Great. I hear internet is only a fad as well. That's great as well because I'm getting sick of it.

Exactly, hyperinflation is the problem.

If people realize that they derive enough of a benefit from leaving the dollar and going back to sound money, they will do this. A major dollar currency crisis should be enough of a catalyst.

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Checking that internet crash. The world is coming down.

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How do we begin establishing a sound money economy on a local level? Once the dollar is worthless people are going to use another medium of trade or barter, and in an advanced economy some sort of currency is needed.


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Found this out before and forgotten again - what game?
It's that car simulator thing on steam but which one?
BeamNG or something like that?

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Also even if the Fed runs zero interest rate again I don't think any government worldwide has the capacity to do another bailout again, so are the banks going to die? Every country is in the red.

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In between collapse, and restoration there is a period of violence and turmoil. God help you if you live in a place with a high nigger population.

Studying how monasteries survived the collapse of the roman empire is worth a looking into if you're intrigued by the subject of surviving collapses.

Assuming you survive that period of turmoil, you value becomes intrinsically tied to what skills you posses that provide or enhance food or shelter.

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When one property/mortgage bubble bursts around the world.
My guess is Australia.

If you look at the trend, it might already be at despair.

But oh boy, you don't know shit about interest-only loans in Australia.

prophetic gets checked

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your argument is literally pic related

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Look at the volumes though… we haven't seen this much activity since before the GFC which is a sign we've finally turned that recession around.

>debt to (((whom)))?
Yeah come sanction the US with your army. We could stop paying our debts tomorrow and the rest of the world could get fucked because the entire system is a ponzi scheme based on everyone paying. What are our debt holders going to do? Come repossess some states? Why do you think we have vast oil reserves at home that go unused and farm subsidies? Because when this game of musical chairs stops, we can just tell the world to get fucked and get comfy. The national debt and debt ceiling is a fiction.

Property bubbles is a worldwide concern.
The US is in a comfy position though because you had the GFC.

That shit is about to hit China, Oceania and from what I hear, Europe too.
Fucking China and their unregulated activities (regarding foreign loans). Massive problems.

BUT, I get the feeling it might not be as bad as we think it will be… though property holders may be in strife.
Luckily, my parents sold a little bit of property to clear their debts. If it crashes, at least they've taken preparations.

AND, people in Aus are still buying houses apparently, because they need fucking homes.

The government is retarded and runs massive deficits on programs for niggers that it needs to constantly borrow money from, if the (((banks))) choose to stop lending because you stopped paying you better have a ton of guns for the race war.

*money for

Good riddance.
That's minor compared to the chinese property investment issues. China, I think, have just realised we're in "a lot of poo" right now thanks to their policies.
The US is in an excellent position though. They've been preparing for this for 10 years.

look OP stock markets do some very wierd things if you are facing civilizational collapse situations

look at the three images provided
if you bought the caracas index you would have made gains that make bitcoin look like toddlers first market
however the side effect is you can't actually sell the stock and the money it is denominated in isn't even worth the paper it is printed on

think this will not happen in the us/eu or i am too poor to own stocks i don't care
everyone will be affected as in their last desperation the (((western))) governments will move all pension plans into some goverment IRA which has to be s&p 500 or eu equivalent and cannot sell, thats your pension

also rampant money printing in whatever way possible
at this point even if you are a poor fag buying a few 100's worth of crypto or whatever is small enough that you will not miss it seems like a good idea

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I don't think any other will take over the US dollars necessity in countries such as Cambodia, Zimbabwe, and other countries with hyperinflated currency. I think the US will remain the world currency simply because it's so widespread over the world now.

kek, oldest scam in the book.

Who is scamming me, exactly? I bought directly from an exchange. There are scams about it, but the coming changes are real.

the US banks need to loan though, I don't think that will stop soon.

Our economies (both US and Aus) is based around giving risky loans "without risk" (using fed bonds, bills, notes, etc).
What we should be doing is teaching every person this reality and why it exists though. That way the market is better prepared to take these economic conditions into account.

BUT, these loans have huge issues with property investment STILL (even after the mortgage security crisis of 07/08).
Australia is cracking down big time because everyone has just realised the problem we've created with our lending habits recently. Interest-only loans have a sort of "honeymoon period" which means that people may be getting out of those stupid loans when it finishes, therefore flooding the property market. BUT, I think we've all just seen the "potential bear attack" that could occur and so we've had many inquiries…. which have been very fruitful.

One "minor" detail:
China has invested heavily here (through fraudulent details to obtain Australian, not Chinese, loans). You can see the obvious fucking calamity there.
Oh and their property market is an utter sham.

Aren't the Chinese fucking up just about every market right now with their hivemind mentality?

we are most certainly at one of the two, with the way recent news has been going, I think its safe to say this week will be the real beginning of "fear"

I had a mate that had parents that bought iraqi dinar 10 years ago and thought they were going to be billionaires.
They lost everything based on their "informed advice" from their "broker". It's a scam, it won't stop being a scam.

You need to get out asap. Do some fucking market research.

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Buy crypto

the ants have inflated the BC median home price by astronomic levels. The ants are about to teach the leafs a lesson in being allowed to mix niceness with weakness
your cucked government will while they take your fucking abandoned homes the ants have neglected and give them away.

You mean with their gambling attitude to the markets, yes.
They consider every bubble an opportunity to sucker another person into buying higher.

I had a Singaporean friend who warned about this property investment attitude from the Chinese in Malay and Singaporean markets in the 2000's early 10's. He said Aus was next and he was bang on.
They give 0 fucks that they're investing in bubbles. Nominal value is all they care about. Real value is nonsense or some shit to them.

Part of me hates that attitude. Part of me thinks that attitude may survive any crash… they'll just wipe themselves off and start again on another bubble with no fucks given.

It's very unstable as an economic environment. It's like a high flow of blood with no nutrients in that blood for sustenance. It has no relation to the real value of things.
At the same time, more trading should be a good thing in some other ways.

We just don't know though… because this situation has never occurred before on a global scale. China is a fucking dragon that's for sure.

Chinkroaches cant survive with out whites in foreign countries.
The ones here literally do nothing but buy and rent and never maintain. They are the lazy, rich cunts, not the hard working peasant Chinese.

The worst part is that China's government is fucking helpless to stop this shit. The beast in the east is burning the fucking globe.

They need to stop internet censorship or they'll forever be a hideous beast devouring everything, producing very little.
The people there do not understand enough about what they're getting into, they were raised in a communist world where they never cared about the calamities that may unfold.

Gibs are nowhere near the money wasted on Israel. Your post is nothing but a distraction.

Part of me thinks that the west are too passive with their market involvement though. That's why our economies stagnated, we stopped the money from flowing.
And property investment is like cholesterol in our system.

China is both hurting us… and doing us a favour by finally fixing this liquidity crisis.
Boomers and property investors are very concerned though. I've mentally prepared my parents for the potential of this situation… most other boomers think the bubble will just continue like the 70's to 90's. The situation is not the same though with China.

Most certainly checked. Here we go lads

My money is on Australia or Canada, but I think us leafs are first.

Nah mate, we just had shocking inquiries.
I think the next couple weeks perhaps as word spreads and properties go on the market.

Great times if you have cash and know how to hedge though.

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Gunna need a qrd on those inquiries. The next couple weeks you say? must've been some juicy hearings.

Politically speaking there hasn't been much discussion about it up here, but globally the financial industry is starting to blow the whistle on our banking system and its practices. Admittedly we're still a month or two away as our collapse won't begin until more people are underwater on their mortgages. A whole lot are up for renewal this year though and a fair chunk of people will have to walk away at the new rates, especially if the increase in property values slows even slightly or god forbid turns negative.

Yes beamng or something like that

Their mistake was spending more on it than they can afford, which is always a dumbass idea unless you're completely desperate. I've been tracking Iraq's financial situation for two years now, and they are definitely heading in the direction of revaluation, probably within this year. The scammers scam by promising immediate massive returns and then act as intermediaries. They claim they'll get a better deal on the exchange if they do it all together and re-invest the dinar into Iraq externally. Naturally, this means one person is holding onto a lot of people's invested dollars, and you can bet when the time comes, a lot of them will suddenly drop off the radar with billions worth of foreign currency.

I got my currency by brick and mortar cash-in-hand to cash-in-hand transfer, and keep the paper bills in a secure safe. When they revalue, I'll be investing them on my own terms. I'm not sure into what yet, because I don't have faith in Wall Street by any means. But you can bet a significant chunk will go into gold.

I'm not dumb. Just completely desperate.


looks like enthusiasm to me if you zoom out enough…..

Where? Housing looks stable.

Things are not good in the finance sector here.
See especially:

There won't be a collapse.
Just a wave of mutilation. Like always.

You sound exactly like my mate's parents.

I think that mate is on the run from bikies now?.

Wouldnt that mean they stop giving money to isreal too?

I had read this a week or two ago, it was excellently put together and a good read so I knew things were getting bad. I remember being scared as fuck by the whole interest only mortgages aspect (obvious sign that things are beyond fucked up) The fact that you now have a royal commission is interesting and actual news coverage adds some immediacy to the matter, glad to see people somewhere in the world are actually addressing this issue as a civil populace.

At least Australia is aware of our situation.
America was not in 07. No one saw that coming.

That's a good sign. It means people have begun to prepare for movements in the market. Aussies have learned to keep very awake about that.

Probably because half you guys make all your money speculating on properties. Part of the fun that comes with service based economies. Gotta be a shark to rule the reef right?

I don't hate. I prefer it to the willful ignorance / cognitive dissonance of my fellow leafs.

The real question is how do we get our wealth back that the banking kikes stole us for centuries? They gave us bytes and monopoly money and got gold and land for it. Its a massive scam and we must take it back.

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We have no manufacturing, it's a bleak economy for anyone trying to climb the ladder.
BUT, we have a strong trade culture. Most people prefer to get a trade than a degree because degrees are just too risky.
On the downside, that impacts the tech industry here.

Nobody has wealth, it's a pool of debt.

they made profit from it and bought real estate and other wealth

You don't get it. We are all bleeding.

It's just money. It's not wealth.

Wealth is always there, it's just the current form isn't money. And that's what they steal. Real wealth is still there in the form of security provided by tangible assets. That's what they are stealing, but in a way most people are blind to.

Example: wanna buy a house? Oh fuck you, the banks have fucked the housing markets so much that literally you have to spend more money than you'll make in a lifetime to afford a 500 sq ft hole-in-the-wall shack. And then you'll have to pay taxes on top of that forever based on whatever the fuck market price they screwed with as well. So you decide that being a perpetual renter is the only way to go. THAT is how they steal wealth from us. By stealing our ability to provide for ourselves and have a stable environment in which to raise children.

Most people lack the IQ to identify and understand that kind of tangential theft. It's the same kind of people who think "debt" is an asset because they see some dipshit on TV 'just say so'. They are incapable of seeing things for what they really are. Which is why all the tricks have worked on them.

Well, I'm a disabled fuckup with no future anyways. The money could have gone to escapism, but it seems better to throw it at a Hail Mary with better odds than the lottery.

I'm out nothing but a few months' expendable pay if it turns out to be a flop.

My feels, the post.

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There probably will be a stock market correction but don't expect a catastrophic collapse. Trump is waging economic warfare on the Chinese - America will win but there will be casualties. Pics/videos related. If it's really a war (policies, media coverage, military presence off China and propoganda films suggest it is) then they will artificially support US assets.

China is going to go through what the Japanese went through in the 90s. American stocks will look good on a relative basis. Afterall what are the alternatives to US stocks? Interest rates are too low for bonds. When China and America slow down everyone else slows down, so their stocks are out. On the plus side for US stocks: weakening Dollar, Tax reform, deregulation, ETF passive investment increasing, low interest rates enabling stock buybacks, QE likely in next recession, negative interest rates a possibility, government likely to clandestinely prop up stocks to support pension funds.

I'm not expecting big gains but I don't expect huge losses either. It probably won't be much worse than holding cash.


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I agree that our capital is being leeched by foreign countries.

But nobody is gaining anymore. Everybody loses on this bloody rock now.
That's the mentality we need to overcome. The blind obsession for good book values. Because ultimately if you starve the people, the king starves too.

2 pixies songs in one thread? wewlad.

Might want to try actually learning a language before you shill in it.

I understand where Rickards is coming from and he's not necessarily wrong, but countries with high exports typically have the industrial capacity and unique/substantial commodity resources with the skilled population to go along with it. They can come out on top of a trade war because they are already fully capable of closing most import gaps, which is why they have limited internal demand for external products in the first place. Germany or Japan or Korea could turn around tomorrow and slash the tariffs on Fords or Chevys and I don't think it would make a significant difference. France and Japan for kitchen knives or timber from Canada.

The real problem for the US is that it really doesn't make a whole lot the rest of the world actually wants [or is anything but maybe a marginal improvement over domestic alternatives] and is collapsing in its ability to even rebuild its lost manufacturing base for domestic consumption.

China has nothing.
It's a shithole that is sinking more and more into shit everyday.

Everyone's in the shit.

China is building a rail and sea network to span the majority of our known world. Here in the US we can barely maintain Amtrak.

I manage a lumber yard. We are moving 3 to 4 million dollars a week to kike owned real estate companies who are throwing up entire neighborhoods at one time. Before the finishing touches are done, the banks are throwing people in them.
In February a company working with us poured 28 slabs in one fucking week, I have not seen this level of building since 2005. Shit is roaring right now and the news doesnt want you to hear about the fact that those with jobs outside of starfucks are making bank at the moment. The unions cant get enough young guys to work 40 hours even at 43 bucks an hour.
I dont know when this gravy trains crashes, but unlike 2008, this time every swinging dick is opening talking about being armed to the teeth and working out and stockpiling. Everyone is ready for war and milking this wave for all shes worth.

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China has no food.

This tends to be for extreme orthodox israeli subverts. Not a good sign.

Why would you accept Yuan for Oil, when the currency is massively manipulated for the benefit of the Chinese government? We've talked about china's intense currency manipulation here before. It seems like a poor decision to invest anything in such a currency.

The bigger crash is in the tech industry. With Safe Harbor laws basically dead and the 4th taken out back and shot by the Cloud Act, the internet as we know it is effectively dead, it's just moving by sheer momentum at this point. Once those realities start really taking hold, the internet withers.

It amazes me how quietly and without contest they managed to kill the internet. In the span of a month. It's incredible.

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But many other countries who want to trade with China do. And this is without getting into a mass changeover from traditional farming to hydroponic where applicable. Let's deal in pure reality here, as the world is and not the story you would like to craft. I'm familiar with the US Army's internet corps' narrative on China.

sorry user, i'm with the other guy here, if there is a country that has tangible wealth (through lack of debt and control of populace/resources) right now it is china. Domestically america doesn't have what china has.

They won't need food when they have africa wrapped up

Bro it's the same in Oil, I got canned in 2016. Went to a local community college for awhile and got a job but now I'm back in it making a fuckton of money for as long as I can. This is something I'm noticing as well. The last layoffs sliced to the bone and everyone remembers it bitterly. This time I don't see the optimism that I saw when I personally entered the field.

also this user, its amazing, I think its because those of us who cared knew it would happen. I know i'm ready to give it up whenever it dies.

The US government has interfered in your domestic affairs too much? You really want gold and not the yuan? The US invaded your neighbor? Let's see how it shakes out, but the currency manipulation argument doesn't seem to hold much water in the face of the last 20-30 years of American foreign policy.

All fiat currency in history was like this. Can't beat inflation.

The US just stopped that though..

Yeah I think we've ignored a slight issue with this trade war.. China might have food supply issues..
That said, expect that to reverse in Aus because we're utterly disgusted by the recent issues with public infrastructure caused by Chinese suppliers (hospital materials literally full of asbestos… i don't even).

Our major concern now is not china.
It's robots.

We have a huge gap in our job supply as we automate it. People need money to interact with the economy at all. What's the point of automating something when the people can't obtain the product of that automation.
At the same time, should we still use currency to stimulate other necessary cogs of the system. We're stuck in this massive post-scarcity obstacle.
Furthermore, some services will not be able to be automated.

wat do?

Are you a comedian? Africa is already starved.
Improving it will just boom that population. That food won't reach china.

China's best bet is massive infrastructure in their deserts or perhaps Australia.
Siberia/Mongolia must be nervous now too.

I wasn't aware that Asia, South America, Europe, and Africa had done the same. China has a lot of options, even if the US is the most straightforward and convenient one.

They can fix that with the right infrastructure and agricultural practices; they're currently the best at industrial state capitalism and i'm willing to bet their absolutely tearing through their USD foreign exchange reserves on Africa and by the time that runs low they'll be hella comfy.

I suggest watching "empire of dust", they will face their problems there to be certain, but i think they can make it work.

Yeah, I'm seeing that where I live too, but it's mostly for feddies (NoVA). Prices for even the worst townhouses are in the high 300ks. The working middle class are pushed out to the hinterland or have to cohabitate with section 8.

Africa is starved because they don't know how to farm, not because good farmland isn't available. And the population isn't going to boom. People have discussed this, that if the west abandons Africa, then it will be colonized by China next. China won't care about improving the country though, it's entire goal will be to strip it of resources and exploit every useful thing about it, and unlike western colonialists, they won't give a damn about the local population, either morally or economically. They would have no issue letting them starve and they already have massive labor reserves ready to go. Why deal with the trouble of managing the locals to mine when you can import millions of expendable and much more capable chinese labor to do it instead, further enriching you and your country?

It's the great irony of post-colonialism. They finally threw out the white man, but by doing so, they opened the door to the chinese, who are going to be a hundred times worse. No investment. No infrastructure. No education. Just boatload after boatload of chinese workers, farmers and soldiers stripping your continent of everything of value, leaving you to starve if you accept it and shooting you if you try to fight it.

Africa is a dark ironic joke.

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If you ceased printing money…
But then other issues emerge. Lending becomes a major problem. The goal was to make lending easier and the borrowers less impacted by their defaults.
That should be the goal.

Easy lending AND less impact to borrowers defaulting. That was the only reasonable justification for the current system of financing. It was there to make the blood flow so the economy did not stagnate.

And the banking industry needs to return to a more professional service providing role… but nowadays they're all coked up and will do anything to make their numbers look good - agency problems. The system just didn't work because the managers want job security. Shareholders just want their gains.
This is why I still think centralised government run banking is still the only solution. But of course that's "crazy", "uncompetitive" thinking and would benefit the cattle too much and not the slaughterers.

That's a big hurdle. US has very efficient farming industries. South America, Parts of Asia, Africa, etc have huge agricultural culture issues. Especially Africa.

The problem is that at the end of the last recession the Chinese deliberately boosted internal demand when exports slumped. They did that by extending credit at a rate faster than any country ever has. It's unsustainable - growing several times faster than GDP. Bankruptcy in the making.

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The decline of the african agricultural culture and industry is entirely to do with:
1. No education
2. "Demographic issues" If you know what I mean :^)

Those Africans will not see what's about to hit them if the Chinese do go there.
But… I think that's unlikely. I wouldn't touch Africa if I wanted security of anything I establish there (if I were an average chinese 1 inch man).

That said, there might be crazy fools that might want to give the adventure a crack, knowing it's a struggle.
That'll be both whites, chinese and maybe some indians… not just chinese. I myself had the crazy thought.
Though South Africa is apparently having issues with whites… stay away from there. Other areas are begging for educated people to bring their knowledge to stimulate some type of development.

once again I strongly recomend empire of dust

My entire state has been bulldozed in just the last five years, and turned into one giant suburban sprawl for shitskins and white trash to blow their paychecks and indebt themselves into.

Africa currently imports 1/3rd of its calories. Meaning they can only feed 800 million while their population is 1200 million. Last reports on Agricultural yields show that while production increased, yields didn't increase enough, so in the last 10 years the number of malnourished raised from 250 to 350 million. And their population is raising at a crazy rate right now, they will be 2000 millions in 2045… This is not in any way sustainable, at least not with their local production.

Yes, all the reports I have read indicate that modern techniques permitting massive yields are not applied in Africa, because first niggers can't farm, and second because Africa lacks the infrastucture which is necessary to farming, that is: decent roads, good fertilizer production plants, modern equipment and decent food storage (lots of the yields get wasted because bad storage for example). These last elements are not obvious but are a real wall for increasing agricultural production.

And yes, kicking the white man means the situation is only getting worse, roads are slowly getting destroyed; they are not even maintaining their infrastructure. Meaning that they will depend even more on other countries to feed them.

I know several European banks which are getting in a very bad situation because of the low rates, especially the ones that only get money through credit and do not have other sources of profit. Last time, banks were the first dominos to fall.

Yet the lives of Chinese people in general materially improved drastically in just the last 10 years. All of that physical progress won't be instantly wiped away.

Can someone post those videos of those chinese apartments falling over? A strong wind will wipe it away.

the last talk between trump administration and MBS mean the house of saud may still sell oil for $ but nothing sure for the moment.
they already selling US debt since 2016

to understand how flawed the system read this (Written in 2001)
we're heading to currency collapse

Very little we can do about that.
They breed in an inconceivably stupid manner, some barely affording food for themselves yet having 5 kids or so.

While that happens somewhat in other countries, not nearly as much as it does in Africa. It's ridiculous.
I can't fathom that stupidity.

I didn't claim it would. I claimed it will be like Japan - no catastrophic thing, but the continual high rate of growth they've been used to for decades will vanish. They won't take over the world and their economy won't overtake America's.

>Unless China is (((their))) next breadbasket like America was after (((they))) finished siphoning Britain.
not any more Xi DADA BTFO their plan every Neoliberal jjourno kvetching about how Xi change (((the course of history)))

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A lot of the subversion we've been seeing in universities, the media, politicians etc in terms of destroying our values and flipping us culturally have also been largely backed by the Chinese.
Having America primed with no 2nd amendment or 1st amendment would only benefit China in the future.
Russia obsession has masked a lot of it, more than likely intentionally.

You didn't need more "energy". Markets are by nature uncertain. m0ds are confirmed no moneys retards.(lurk moar)

I think the U.S. is pretty safe right now, and we're having medium sized corrections regularly, so it's not like we're going to wake up to see the DOW minus 3k. Foreign housing bubbles are definitely a concern though. All the common wealth countries seem to be getting completely JUST'd with million dollar 2 bedroom houses. The Jews are also unlikely to contract the money supply in order to artificially create a deflationary crisis in order to get rid of Trump. They would need to do that in 2019/2020, If they did it now then when it naturally recovers he can claim all the credit for it, and then say it's Obama's fault because he didn't implement any of the regulations they were shilling so hard for.

The U.S. has heavy sanctions on Venezuelan oil already. This changes very little. I think the petro dollar thing is largely a meme; although, it's the best explanation I've got for why they got rid of top dindu Gaddafi.

It was only logical for Japan since they're a small island with no resources, the chinese are an entirely different animal. Then there's the problem of GDP, which includes consumption making it retarded if you've been to chinkland almost everything they have is so cheap it's ridiculous. It's not ideal but they hold the means of production in the global economy and it's mostly the fault of Americans themselves to begin with in their greedy lust for the cheapest products rather than quality like the Japanese produce.

The Japanese have quite a few resources, mostly they're short of oil. Their trouble is unimaginative and corrupt leadership, much like almost every other first world country.

10/10 documentary if any user hasn't seen it.

I legitimately felt bad for the Chinese foreman at the end of it. Makes me think it's exactly what a public high school teacher goes through in a mostly-black school

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Well Sakhalin has plenty of oil, but obviously the (((US))) saw to it that they lost it.

(higher energy required)


That's a major part of the problem. They make a point of talking about it in Empire of Dust and specifically site an example of roads and railroads built by the Belgians in the Congo in the mid-50s that the Congolese never, ever, ever maintained and have let fall into ruin. At no point did any native African think 'Huh. My car gets damaged when I go over potholes. I should fix those holes.'; instead, they just drove around them.

FFS, it'd be just as retarded as having a leak in the ceiling of a room in your house, so your solution is to just shut the door and not go in that room anymore.

Some of Conrad's words on a rather similar subject come to mind.

"He cried in a whisper at some image, at some vision - he cried out twice, a cry that was no more than a breath - 'The horror! The horror!'"

The british should never have given them collared shirts, 90% of people's illusions about african competence comes from the fact that we taught them to "dress properly."

Go run a lap bro.

Probably, the (((elites))) want our nation dead and what better way than cratering our economy before the right wing can fully take over.

China has been directly doing business with Israel now. America is the middle man, and it's being thrown out.

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This is going to end hilariously. I can't wait for the jews to get out jewed by the chinese. I don't think we give the chinese enough credit on this board; I know its basically one big fucked up anthill and the whole country is a toxic sludgepit (been there, its nuts) but they are ridiculously efficient and effective at organizing and getting shit done. I genuinely believe (fear) they will shape this world irrevocably within the next 15 years.

yeah, but the quality of work is garbage and the shit doesn't last.

Israel and CHina getting in bed together, especially for tech, is going to end badly. I can't wait to laugh about it with you anons.

Except Israel doesn't have anything worth buying except US secrets.

Don't worry, war and massive population dieback (especially in Asia) is due in 2-4 years. They won't have time.

Why do business with America directly when you can get it at a discount from Greatest Ally™?

Their reckless and irresponsible use of antibiotics will absolutely fuck us but I think we're atleast a decade away, America can't escape it, if anything it will be their strong state that stops the spread and spares the rest of us.

Same thing was true of Japan in the 80s. They produce garbage because that's what they're paid for, but that doesn't mean they can't do something good, considering their numbers alone it's impossible they don't have a few competent chinks.

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the Fed will just print money. and, it can do so with impugnity if the country is going through a debt-deflation. mark my words; it'll happen again

I'm hoping for a major plague in Africa; somethingthat would make ebola-chan blush.

An user can dream.

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its only shitty workmanship because they were all fuckin rice farmers like 30 years ago, if they make it a few generations they will definitely be the worlds premier anthill

Those are pretty valuable. Maybe they also throw in a few US nuclear triggers and US weapons grade uranium.

like hell it will, m8. If you were the user who said you were in China, you should know better than anyone - the mentality in the anthill is that you can't outsmart your opponent, so you just copy them and get something that's halfway decent.

They won't innovate. Nothing will improve. They'll copy actual 1st world nations and just build new buildings when their old ones collapse.

The first ebola crisis had a virus with a nearly 100% mortality, which was very bad for spreading, they simply killed the hosts before said hosts could infect others.

Now it's mortality is much reduced, if it gets spread to overpopulated areas like the congo or Nigeria, then shit will hit the fan fast.

It's shitty worksmanship because the culture is premised on face rather than true efficacy. For all their talk of being an ancient civilization, their time horizon is incredibly short.

China runs on Keynesian economics. GDP includes things like fixing a broken window. Why perform quality service when you can look good on stats?

What about their unbreakable Toyota trucks used as troop transports in the sahara?
What about sony and other japanese electronics?

What about 1940s japan? The zero fighter and the arisaka rifle were in service in the most harsh of environments and still served with decebt reliability.

The elderly dependency ratio is growing across the developed and much of the developing world and is easily the biggest social catastrophe waiting to happen. There's the obvious threat of a proportionately smaller workforce being unable to generate enough tax revenue to pay for the largest population of retirees in history, but that is really just one small part of the larger problem. That workforce isn't just not generating enough tax revenue, its not nearly as productive with such a huge group of experienced workers removing themselves from the labor pool. Additionally, all those retirees have needs placing a growing demand for living assistance workers, doctors, nurses, medical device manufacturers, biotech workers, and end of life care workers, all while placing the same consumption demands on the economy as they did before retiring. So you have an entire generation not only consuming as much as they did when they were working, but more so for longer than any social service program was ever designed to last thanks to longer life spans, all while contributing nothing back to the economy in terms of productivity.

Eventually when the public and private pensions are exhausted, the retirees will try and sell off their homes to live off the equity. Except, wealth is overwhelmingly concentrated in the hands of the same people trying to sell off said homes, so who will be in a position to buy all these homes? A few lucky Millennials, Gen Xers and Gen Zers? The bottom line is that too many people will be selling and not nearly enough will be in a position to buy, leading to a collapse of the housing market that would make the crash of 2007 look like a temporary market adjustment.

So we're headed for a three headed hydra of sovereign debt crises, personal debt crises, and a labor shortage.

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They certainly have their flaws, and i'm not saying its not all kinds of fucked up (like the whole fucking world is), I have however met enough anglo educated smart chinks who are running the show that I am under the impression they'll be in a better situation than the rest of us in 10 years

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It won't be a single crisis that brings about the next round of political changes, those changes begin in the minds of the generation that will ascend to power by the time of the next crisis, usually when one administration fails to resolve it with conventional policies. By the election of 2028 or 2032, we'll likely have an economic nationalist President enacting policies that would offend the minds of most normies right now.

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Masonbux my fellow travelers

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welfare entitlements not counting medical are 1/4th of the total annual budget

The word is protectionism. You don't need to reframe it, it is a perfectly servicable word.

Also be weary of the solutions that get presented. A few you-know-whos will like to do with just (((Immigration))) to fill the labor shortage. The economy in developed nations simply won't be able to support an aging population or all the services their citizens will be demanding after another decade of the social contract being dismantled by companies that convert their workforce over to freelancers just to avoid paying retirement and health benefits. Productivity will have to increase, and that can only be done with either robotics, improving the amount of time someone can work with better health technologies, or (((immigration))).

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Some kind of great turning is your bet? With how ridiculous everything has gotten the past couple years I'm not sure whether to look forward to the future or if it can be recognised.

Remnant of the (((information economy)))

Fundamentals are now solid thanks to Trump.

It can't though. Even fast-food workers are being replaced by automation already, give it 10, 20 years and there will be no unskilled labor available at livable wages, and niggers aren't able of any skilled labor. Then you end up with an old population who really shouldn't have to work, and a young group of invaders who can't (and don't want to) work. So either the old ones make a sacrifice to pay for the niggers or niggers become fertilizer.

Reinstitute slavery.

It's not a bet. This is going to happen. Mark these words. Prepare the best you can. The elderly are a big burden once they retire in every society. Their consumption continues, but once their benefits run out they will be forced to liquidate their assets. This will be the house bust that everyone has been predicting.

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We'll probably see something like Soylent Green, user. You'll have the safe, opulent, and rich parts of the city separated from everyone else with huge, armed perimeters.

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they have already started to liquidate their assets in north america, well before death, or even retirement. Its all just debt backed now, fundamentals barely matter anymore, the questions are who will be the ones enforcing the economic wage slavery and are the numbers fake enough that total greater depression economic apocalypse is now impossible based on lack of concern for the fundamentals

No, not yet. Soon though. One can only project so far into the future and if we get economic reform before then we may negate an apocalyptic collapse. We will have major economic reform within 10-15 years to soften our impending doom. How we address the issues in that time period will tell us our punishment for this gross negligence we have practiced for 60 years.

See the graph in
The US dollar is also massively manipulated for the benefit of (((some people)))

The mentality is totally different though. The Chinks don't take any pride in their work. Slap it together quick, near enough's good enough. Falls apart later? Well you bought it already, not my business anymore. On top of that they're always looking for an angle to cut costs and will inevitably screw the customer in the process.

Hmm in some respects yes, but if you've worked with them you see how scattered they can be. Last minute decisions, the right hand often doesn't know what the left is doing, etc. They get it done in the end, sure, but the efficiency part is overrated by outsiders.

Here's a puzzler for you, user: Who gets more screwed over in a China - India business deal?

Was this 96D chess to get rid of this unsustainable system?

Shanghai Stock Exchange having a meh day.

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Petro-yuan has been humming along chummily as well.

The White Guy

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I fucking hope so, maybe I could actually afford a house in the city my ancestors built.

If you knew anything about economics you'd know that means we're at the late stage of the economic cycle. The economy can't keep growing when businesses can't get the staff.

The unemployment numbers are as bogus as they've ever been since they don't count people who ran out of unemployment benefits.

That's why people only regard employment statistics now, but even that is bullshit. People with two jobs count twice I think. Even if it's two dishwashing jobs at a restaurant. And most restaurant workers now have two jobs since Obama made it so that if you employ someone fulltime they have to get medical coverage. Restaurants solved this by hiring two people part time instead of one full time.

So everything is fucked. Old communist economic analysis tricks need to start being used, such as looking at train traffic. As far as freight cargo transported around the USA is concerned that number has been down for ages.

Europe opening in the green.

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so here is my analysis

tech is fucking finished. atleast in its current incarnation. many of these overvalued companies (the FAANG stocks in particular), will deflate a TON over the rest of this year. this will keep the market from going up in any meaningful way, as the industry leaders will be getting destroyed all year long. no matter how good the rest of the index is doing, it will look shitty and flat as FB gets cucked out of existence. hopefully netflix google etc are all hit the way we suspect they will be by the repeal of net neutrality, and have their profitability destroyed by having to actually pay for their fuck huge bandwidth .

but the real fucking issue is not the retarded boomers who are going to have to cycle out of their shitty FB NFLX and AMZN positions. the real issue is what the fuck is going on at deustsh bank?

many europoors have an intimate relationship with DB, as it is the bank of the EU. of course many of the upper crust of the EU bureaucracy keep most of their REAL wealth in places like switzerland, luxembourg etc… but make no mistake, DB is what allows the EU to have their endless pockets.

well, as far as i can tell, those pockets DO have a bottom. and its coming up quick. at the rate that DB has been falling, it will eventually be delisted as a stock sometime within the year. but thats not how banks go down. as we saw with lehman, "everythings fine goys, shutup" until monday comes around and they are experiencing solvency issues. now i dont know when exactly this is going to happen, so this isnt advice on how to place your investments, but if you have money in DB, take it out now.

these pics show my analysis of whats going on. the past few years have not been kind to DB. it fell BELOW the low of the 08 financial crisis, and then failed to get back above it 3 seperate times. this shows a STRONG resistance. another thing of note, if you look at the more zoomed in chart, is you can see, most of the big dumps have been happening in pre market and afterhours. this is a terrible sign as this is when big money likes to normally make big purchases or sales. the big money is fleeing. we know what usury means (only 10% of a banks wealth has to be physically held), so how many rich EU aristocrats do you think it will take liquidating all of their accounts at DB before it runs completely out of money? and, like lehman, who the fuck is going to lend them a line of credit to get out of this? no one.

if this happens, this will be the catalyst for a new 08 type crisis that will crush the EU as it stands today. the effects will ripple into the whole world economy heavily, and the effects on america will be amplified by foreign central banks selling off US treasuries.

TL;DR take your money out of deustche bank now. start hedging your portfolio for a global economic crisis.

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any advice other than the usual Pb, Au, Ag?

Consumer staples (specifically inferior goods e.g. Tuna instead of salmon), cheap retailers, healthcare. During economic depressions some cheap staples actually rise in price as people stop buying expensive alternatives.

Hey friend, what application are you using in those pics?

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Tinned/long-lasting food is actually a really good inflation hedge.

Oh no no no no.

Probably will make for an even bigger crash. The panic will be that much greater given 07 is still fresh in everyone's minds.

Keep in mind that the negative press has already started with prices dropping off in Sydney. At the very least it's going to discourage new buyers for the moment.

Don't eat anything from the ocean. After Fukushima, the Pacific is finished.

Sardines are fine.




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This guy posts in every market thread, likely has several million + net worth, and never lends a hand for shit. All traders are the same way, if they are really doing well, they just say "can't spoon-feed you man".

Don't take it personally, when you make money like a Jew, some Jew rubs off on you.

* By mend a hand I of course mean being very specific with advice for a ground up introduction to doing this as a job

Can confirm. The mentality in my job field is totally different then when I first got into it. Everyone is a lot less trusting.

Share your knowledge, give every income level here a legit strategy. Spell it out, assume nothing

you better have guns for the race war

kek i have like 15k. i just like charts and finance and how geopolitics affect them. i appreciate you thinking so highly of me. i suppose its a good sign that i can be mistaken for a fucking brilliant millionaire trader.

its the program you get for free if you got a schwab account. if you like looking at charts too look up thinkorswim. if you register for a demo account on TDameritrade (hopefully dont sound like a shill, its just literally the best free chart program you can get) theyll give you an even nicer charting program for free. you can even papertrade on it if you wanna teach yourself too.

i think Holla Forums should pay attention to this stuff, as its an especially good indicator for geopolitical happenings if you know what youre looking at. making money on it is pretty fun though, gotta say.

this guy has some good ideas if we start really taking a tumble, demand for staples goes through the roof, so its a good time to be sitting on a lot of it.

id reccomend going long on any number of commodities ETFs (GSG), with a focus on oil, gold, silver, and other rare earths. also DO NOT be fooled by the "safety" of bond ladders. rate hikes increasing will crush bonds over the next few years. if you want to trade bonds just short em (TMV). also owning land or hard assets is ideal. but if you cant get a house or land real quick, you can also look at REITs which are baskets of owned land under a trust. obviously if shit really starts going down, you need to get your money out of your brokerage account ASAP, but these are just ideas to help if you DO have money at risk or invested right now. whatever you do stay away from the equities market right now. not looking good at all.

id like to add, no matter what, if inflation really comes back in a serious way, the absolute LAST thing you want to be sitting on is a big pile of cash. youre better off having it as almost anything else.

since, if my scenario comes true, both the euro and the dollar will be fucked up for a while, perhaps GBP or the yen would be the best. but im not sure. if anyone trades forex and can tell me of a currency that is isolated enough to not be affected terribly by petrodollar collapse, let me know.

Outside payed ones, IndX Guru ( US ) is really good for my style. Because it measures every single variable, including MSM and social network coverage. Basically you can track human behavior, media manipulation and other shit trough it. Plus the usual stuff.

They're fucking up British Columbia. Them and volume DUDE WEED growers and dispensary operators. But this is going to change real soon. (They actually tried to kill a forensic auditor brought in from Quebec, government is going scorched earth on casino and real estate money laundering.)


My guess is New Jewesy.


What the fuck do you think you are achieving by banning and deleting ram you stupid piece of fucking shit? You are playing right into leftypol and every (((msm))), adl, splc trying to shut them down. Are you legitimately fucktarded? Or are you a leftypol faggot that slipped in? I can't comprehend your Absolute fucking idiocy. Insted of giving /ourpeople/ a voice you shut them down. What I have done for this board and what we stand for is beside the point although I've done alot more than you being a stupid banhappy faggot going against oldfags and white movements. Do you know what BAMN is? Yvette Felarca? Berkeley? Do you fucking understand the significance of propaganda? Supporting people who are with us and have a really good strategy / influence the masses? I need you to fucking die CANCER MARBURGAIDS KURU FAGGOT

What a fucking cancer shit we got as mod/vol

Anyone recognize this platform in pic?

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Looks like ThinkOrSwim.

Dow down again, Faceberg down, Twitter down, Remington filing for bankruptcy, here we go.

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OK guys real estate advice? I'm waiting for the next crash, every idiot and their friend has been getting into landlordism the past few years and housing prices are through the roof. But I admit I know very little, this is just my instinct having lived through 2008 and seeing how the same people reacted to crypto and got burned.

Hold onto gold, ammunition and productive assets. Real property prices are going to crash as boomers die and the only buyers are (((banks))). If they aren't stopped, the jews will buy everything up at firesale prices.

really makes you think

Social media is why Trump won.
The jews are killing social media. Watch.

The entire tech sector is taking a huge hit. Google and Microsoft are down around 5% just today. Apple is down as well.

It's the second tech crash.

only plausible theory I've heard so far.

(((Goldman Sachs))) Computer Model Warns Bear Market Near, But (((Analysts))) Refuse to Believe It

Tay's Revenge?

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Facebook and twitter have always been ridiculously overvalued

Lurking /biz/ right now and this is one user's watchlist, this is really fascinating to watch.

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Anyone here have the ability to short tech or already did so?

I have the ability to but I tend to stay away from trading on margin.

we've been direly overdue for this to happen. things have been overinflated and unprofitable (ex: twitter) and there is only so much funny-fake-money to go around before the belt tightens. Good riddance.

They can't control the internet, so they'll try to kill it. They'll flood everything with CP and arrest everyone they can while they can. The blockchain injection is likely just the tip of the iceberg. Mass stenography pushed through the net for the past 10+ years (have you gone and checked all your old Holla Forums memes for correct file sizes?)
Anons living in the EU are fucked unless they're very smart.

Investment chief of $250 billion firm says financial markets are on a ‘collision course for disaster’

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jews don't think far ahead, killing it will hurt too many jew wallets and something will replace it. just be vigilant as to what replaces it, as usual. probably a lot of people will be shifted around and lose their jobs, maybe some name changes here and there.
decentralization should be pushed harder now than ever. if you're not using something like that yet, start adopting it now so the transitions are easier.

oh, and I'm sure they're working feverishly on deepfake tech as well, for plausible deniability for their own crimes, and blackmail against innocents.

The rabbi class does.

NVIDIA will probably be a decent buy, a lot of the selloff with it is occurring because of crypto going down and investors believing this will affect demand. It won't though because NVIDIA never ramped up production or increased prices to meet the increased demand to start with, that was all done by resellers.

deepfake has been around longer than some of us realize. don't ever post your images online, anywhere.

This image made my day. Burn, baby, burn.

They're only trying to kill those platforms which allowed pro-trump players to operate with impunity and did nothing to try and stop it, like facebook

Google is getting absolutely zero shit atm because they've constantly been purging youtube and pushing "fact-checking" sites to top results when you search for "conspiracy theories"

Can someone please explain why Tesla is valued almost as highly as apple when they produce practically nothing


Free government money for the entire obama administration.


People see Musk as some messianic figure and libertarians are completely wrong when they say that the market is rational.

Maybe not boomers posting trump memes but they certainly let the analytics side do whatever it wanted

People aren't rational, which is why markets aren't rational. But that's not a limitation of libertarianism, per se, since even a monarchy would be ruled by a person who is, by definition, irrational. It will always be irrational no matter how many or how few people are in charge. It's about self-interest. And that's true across all economic domains.

Because those firms were working for their goals as well.

I can't say I didn't see this coming.

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It should probably dawn on you at this point that the overall goals of the "two sides" aren't particularly different.

I don't think Trump is anything but a surface-level justification. Nothing he is actually doing [not just talking about] is opposed to the trajectory the US establishment would like to stay on.

Libertarians believe it is rational though, its a frequent phrase they use.

We don't have a free market though, it's run by (((central bankers))).

Libertarian thought is just as jewish when you look at their main thinkers.

Libertarians believe in retarded shit like open borders "because i only believe in property borders" and anti-racism "cause, we're all, like, individuals, man"

Rational in terms of self-interest, not in some objective "this is best for everyone" rationality. But nothing about the global markets looks anything like a libertarian "free market" so it's basically irrelevant to point to our highly rigged markets and say "look, it's not rational". No shit. It's rigged to the hilt.

Ayn Rand was a kike.

so mods, are you going to ban everyone that makes a thread now? you have redtext on every OP

1) buy foreign currency that will not dip was USD dips
2) buy back USD with said foreign currency
3) enjoy your free money

every time without fail

Perfect, thank you much

What there has to be is a national free market. Trade borders based on race, no kikes at the top.

China hitting the shitter today boys.

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High volume also indicates end of bull run. First part of crash also has high vol.

Incorrect, I group and outgroup preferences are deeply ingrained into Libertarian thought. (((Walter Block))) speaks often about this.

The fuck was he banned? OP is completely right.
BTW, that "return to normal" is called a dead cat bounce.

Fuck yes.

Economic illiterate here, what does this portend? Also, what are some decent resources for becoming more economically literate?

This thread is retarded, Bitcoin today, is still price or valued higher than what it was 3 months ago. If it was to crash or if it was crashing the price needs to hit below $5000, and during the "lowest low" of these last few weeks the lowest price was $6300

This thread isn't about crypto retard. You realize that your entire memecoin marketcap is completely insignificant next to most financial instruments, right?

It's dipping a lot, if it goes much lower and breaks trendlines, that'll be interesting. I don't really trust any information coming out of China though, I'm sure they have so much fuckery with their composite indices that it makes the jewish fuckery with DJI (adding, removing, etc at whim, recalculating) look like fingerpainting.

Low quality OPs get b&. Deal with it, newfag.

Amazon's getting JUSTed after Trump tweeted about them.

I see you've played plague inc.


There's economics and there's economics.

If you really want to understand economic fundamentals, the driving forces of the global civilisation, look for resources on demand and supply and their relationship, the functions of price and characteristics of money, inflation, and how governments try to steer the economy with fiscal and monetary policies. That should be enough entry points to get you started. Also know that the most important force in economies is incentive.

If you just want to be able to read the stock market and understand the jargon, go to youtube and look at Sven Carlin and Peter Leeds.

So why wasn’t the thread just deleted, dipshit?

China going down for second day in a row.

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It's still a tiny range though. A few percent up or down either way is pretty much nothing. If it was down 2% a day for a month that'd be a big deal. I imagine China has their own plunge protection team hard at work.

That highly depends on a lot of things, in some markets going down by 1% is absolutely cataclysmic.
I don't know much about China so I can't comment.

well looks like they pulled the circuit breaker. given that so much trading today is automated and computerized sudden drops obviously aren't as scary as they were in the past but steady multi-day declines would still be indicative of dropping economic activity.

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It's all funny money at this point. Central bank intervention in markets means that it's all meaningless.

So you're claiming this will ONLY effect the US and the Rothchildren won't get exposed along with all their systems including Tech/WallSt/WorldFedBanks/Dodgecoin?

I'm just waiting for world secrets to come out and one being that BTC was made by CIA to make laundering less work.
I remember interviews with the groups making it saying CIA caught wind early and wanted to chat to make sure it "wasn't" going to be used for this.
Bundled with all that seed that never got exposed seemed too easy a front.