What are popular guns that are rarely portrayed accurately in video games?

I forgot MMGs.

Why are pistols, assault rifles, battle rifles, SMGs, shotguns ect. all still in service by people that kill for a living?
I'll give you a hint, it might be because they all have pros and cons. If a devs wasn't lazy it would be easy to implement these pros and cons in game but plebs are happy with artificial balance so why increase realism?

You're confusing video games with reality again.

Because they're so much easier to handle than sword combat.

Damage modelling in flesh? No, that's just lazy 3D modelling or texturing. Another lazy design is in the stopping power, guns should vary in stopping power, not just damage. Enemies that are hit by high power rounds should get longer response animation. RE4 somehow did this stopping power thing right tho.

There should be a lot of variety from the wound inflicted. Like in Soldier of Fortune 2, shotgun is the only weapon capable of dismembering and blowing a head off (completely) in 1 shot.

You're confusing necessary abstraction with laziness again.

These two cold war beauties

No, I just want more than 2 or 3 FPS that do it right. I understand most plebs don't want to have to think in a FPS and that is fine but I think those that do are underrepresented in the market.

I mean 9mm or .38 from a pistol is often modeled to be more powerful than 5.56 or even 7.62x51 and the power of 7.62x51 will increase if it's from a M21 but decrease if it's from a M60.

Why do you need to complain? You can go play ArmA if you want realism. The reason there aren't more games like it is because it isn't the majority's idea of fun and there isn't a market for it.

The MAC-10 is godlike in Shogo though.

BTW, is there any game out there that portrays Mac-10 as the 1300 rpm yet decently controllable monster it is?

These guns have some vicious kick, don't they? I think m16a1 is the true cold war beauty.

What games do this? BTW, maybe .38 can make a nastier wound than 5.56 if it's the 200gr super police load.

why did they even do this

All guns. Hell even simple shit like the 1911s are often shown as double action.

I do play ARMA and like many that play it I want it to have competition in that market.
If someone else made an ARMA clone I can guarantee most ARMA players would buy it.
Squad is a stepping stone from pleb FPS to more realism and it's doing really well, I think this is a sign of a growing market.

not a "gun" per se

Those faggots shrug off bullets for God's sake.

ARMA itself is a modern clone of Novalogic games.

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That's why I don't trust flammenwerfers

All of them, here is a quick example from BF1, .303 fired from the Enfield and Lewis.
symthic.com/bf1-weapon-info?w=SMLE_MKIII_Infantry
symthic.com/bf1-weapon-info?w=Lewis_Gun_Suppressive

This. Holy shit this. Why are flamethrowers so shit in video games while IRL they're truly the godlike device? Why do video game flamethrowers look like they're farting gas instead of showering napalm?

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Red Faction has a pretty awesome flamethrower, great range, decent damage and you don't burn yourself by just simply firing it.

I'd say anything hunting rifle tier outside of actual hunting games they feel like BB guns.

KF1 (One)'s flamethrower actually felt pretty good, too, actually a stream of fire that you could hit shit from far away with if you put some arc on the thing, but uhh..went right back to feeling like shit in 2. In fact, the whole perk feels shitty. What a shame.

How does it feel to be useless?

Uh, no.

As much as DayZ is shit the SKS is godlike as it should be.

I chose firebug for the entirety of the few waves it took to realize that I was firing hot garbage. I don't play that shit anymore; and I was speaking strictly about how the first game's weapon operated, anyways, not the overall effectiveness of the perk.

Fair enough.

You're still useless

I think Enemy Territory is one of the few that got them right as they could considering when it came out. It's too bad the one in Far Cry 2 pisses like an old man. The Eternal Silence mod did a pretty good job.

Fuck you, Dio.

Having read a fair bit about medieval combat and practicing with longswords for a while now, I think the most accurate way of making a sword game would essentially make it a series of quicktime events. It wouldn't be very fun, unless you made it a VR game where you get an actual sword that you used to follow guidelines with or something.

Walther WA 2000 has made multiple appearances in many modern military shooters despite there being only 170ish in existence, infact Makarov from the call of duty modern warfare series apparently owns most of them and is willing to equip his bottom bitch mooks with an unusually rare and expensive rifle

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Wow, Holla Forums just taught me something.

BF1 is a heel of a think when it comes to rare guns, everyone gets guns that were still in trials or produced in the sub thousand range.

SKS IRL is trash tbh. Shit clip, weaker than M1 garand, bad ergonomics, and less capacity than the m1 carbine.

It's not shit it's just a 70 year old gun designed to be cheaply mass produced.
It's never going to be as good as guns half it's age and twice it's price.

another fun but mostly useless fact is the mp412 has made multiple appearances in the battlefield series despite never actually getting into mainstream production, one again another example of a prolific video game gun despite there being most likely less then 50 functioning examples in existence

yeah don't get me started on BF1

No shit
But at least they were reliable before the fucking 80s

this a thousand times. a normal fucking shotgun doesnt spray in a 45 degree angle. not even sawed off shotguns are that inaccurate, although i would be willing to suspend my disbelive for that in the name of balance.

that too.

everyone knows shotguns accelerating at the speed of awesome disintegrate into nothing after 5 feet

another favorite example of a VIDEO GAEMS gun is the Streetsweeper, that was listed as a destructive devices weapon in the US despite being a fucking terrible and near worthless shotgun, this is mostly due to the stupid advertising campaign it had

Different guns are still being used because different situations demand different tools. In games you're mostly dealing with fairly similar escenarios, overpenetration is never an issue and whole sometimes collateral damage has penalties, it isn't nearly as important as IRL.
For what you do in games, anything but intermediate rifle or battle rifle is really not ideal.
Having shit damage system is also a big issue, projectiles do not have linear performance and the human body doesn't handle injuries that way either.
Ultimately, trying too hard to be realistic is a bad idea, a game needs of game design compromises.

>>>/out/

I think ARMA makes using different tools a solid gameplay mechanic just by placing movement limitations on the player based on weight.

Sure a section full of MMGs will destroy everything at medium to long range but they will be slow to turn and have trouble aiming in QCB.
Likewise a section full of AA-12s will own at CQB but get fucked at medium range.

As for over penetration even without civilians it matters because of building and compound clearing, if we are doing lots of CBQ we don't take M855 due to this.

We do take more care than more would in any other game because we run perma-death for each mission (you die = you are dead for anywhere up to 45 minutes) but this is what makes it interesting.
Everyone throws away digital lives these days and have forgotten what it's like to actually care about living.

dude

Non vietnam M16A1 are quite reliable. They were also more efficient in battlefields.

Serves no purpose in light automatic guns.

Why? What's wrong with having stopping power mechanics in video games?

I'm not saying it's half it's age but it certainly is twice the price to manufacture.
Dropping bolt vs all the M1 fanciness is a huge difference in the amount of machining.

See my previous post. Learn about guns or
>>>/out/

He is a fucking retard that has never seen a disassembled M1 to know how fucking nightmarish the manufacturing process on that thing was and how much more expensive it is to manufacture compared to an SKS.
Probably a no-guns retard from halfchan/k/

Hey fuck you, atleast the Trenchie was decent, and the Mac-10 ain't a bad sidearm. The flamethrower you start off when you maxed out can be sold for quite a fat stack of dosh for the early rounds never tried the flare revolvers, fuck tripwire

You're a fucking idiot
You actually think Assault/Battle rifles are used in full auto for most of their use?
Outside supression/CQC which are used better with specialized weapons theres no fucking point

Nigger I'm a noguns faggot from Yurop and even i know this faggot is full of shit.

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Tumbling rounds, fragmenting rounds, and expanding rounds don't give more stopping power?

I have a taurus 856 and a cheap mossberf 22lr, so nah, not an absolute nogun, even though I rarely shoot them. I've fired both m1 and sks tho. I don't deny that sks is the cheaper of the two, it certainly felt like so. I was just calling bullshit on that half it's age statement.

Still feels like shit in burst fire.

Please stop already.

Do humans just shrug of bullets regardless shape and weight? What the fuck is the point you're even trying to make? Just talk already you autist.

You seriously need to stop posting

stoppin' power is the firearms equivalent of Ch'i, it's a shitty way of lumping together a heap of different wounding mechanics.
The primary factor in dropping someone far (ie. stoppin') is shot placement and penetration depth, assuming a good center of mass hit the more penetration the better ideally passing though the spine.

When people talk about "stoppin' power" it's normally so they can argue that caliber is relevant when it reality a slightly bigger hole = slightly faster bleedout and if you are relying on bleedout you aren't "stoppin'" anyone.
For clarity I only mean caliber, the diameter of the bullet, not the power of the cartridge

Basically it's a really shit way of describing wounding mechanisms so should be avoided. This guy does a great talk based on real world experience.

All guns feel like shit IRL, but G3 being a high recoil gun feels more shitty than the rest.

I mean stopping power as in not shrugging off bullet impact and keep moving at the exactly same pace.

You seriously need to take a look at some physicist publications on the field of terminal ballistic. You're fucking clueless about everything, but the idea that stopping power means shit is almost insulting.

That video is a nice sum-up. There are some great publications on the subject of "tumbling" and fragmenting rounds. Two things that has NEVER EVER got properly portrait in games, mainly because of the damage system used. To make things short, neither tumbling or fragmentation are there to improve the capability of the round of quickly stopping a threat because in an open war scenario that's not nearly as critical.

In the middle of combat or while running, you might even start moving faster if the bullet doesn't hit anything critical and/or doesn't have stupidly high kinetic energy behind it.

So it isn't clearly defined and is completely subjective? That is why it is a shitty metric and should be avoided.

I don't think I'm autistic enough to do that, I'll just accept defeat.

Okay, so abstracting damage response mechanic is a must in video games.

I think we all know we haven't been talking about vidya for awhile now.

whatevs fam

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The AK47.

Its not really a matter of accuracy per-say, its more that game developers dont know the difference between gas and liquid based flamethrowers despite them being night and day

This thread will give me an aneurysm.

Honestly it's lazy research, if you are going to make a game with any realistic weapon you should be looking at real world counterparts.
Even if what you are making doesn't actually exist you can always find something that will give you some idea of how it should work.

For example if I was going to make a lightning gun for a game I would base it on video related.

Enjoy carrying a huge, heavy tank full of combustive liquid that weighs you down, makes you the favorite target of enemy gunners that heavily outrange you, and might just send you and the buddies beside you to a fiery death if a bullet hits it or the weapon malfunctions.

Flamethrowers have their uses in cramped spaces such as the jungles of Vietnam or in Trench Warfare (assuming you make it to the enemy trench before being shot up), but there's a reason why modern armies have all but abandoned them.

Also, why the fuck are medieval warhammers always portrayed as FUCKHUEG when the entire fucking concept was to focus as much kinetic power as possible (long shaft) on as small as an area as possible (hammerhead or spike).

It's a legitimately unique design that is distinctive and evokes a feeling of power when looked at. I always like it when I play a game that has one.

I remember in Soldier of Fortune when you find it it fires these really powerful shots that just blow people's limbs off and it's so satisfying to use.

It really irritates me when the EBR is treated like some top of the line weapon being used decades into the future, instead of a cost-cutting reuse of all the M14's lying around. Fucking Titanfall has an EBR, and that's set in like the 23rd century or something.

It doesn't happen because they're lazy, it's because when you work as an artist (most video games/VFX companies are filled with liberal you know) being the guy who know too much about weapons make you look like a maniac to your boss and these cunts who do the backgrounds and texture. I personally don't give a fuck, but I can understand that some people don't want to research too much about weapons.

I remember Turok 2's flamethrower was liquid based

But I was only pretending to be retarded.

Rising Storm's flamethrower is terrifying.

That's one of the things that bother me the most. That shit is not only deprecated as fuck, but it also shit weight balance. There is no good fucking reason to pick that shit over a modern AR-10 or, even better, an Mk17.

Do you seriously think that guys making a FPS will get strange rooms for researching guns? Getting references is the first stage of any modeling work.

That's bullshit with the M21 but if it was the ma deuce I would believe it.

Yeah

Even if you do your work well you'll end up being the nerd who likes weapons so much he draws them all day.

Most guns in FPS games are based entirely on how they look.

How the actual gun functions ingame is almost entirely based on just how it looks and relates to the other weapons in the game. Almost no 3D modelers will ever hold the actual gun irl in their hands.

It's why they'll add shit that would actually be really impractical if it was added to a gun irl but makes it look cooler. And why /k/ always flips their shit over it.

I'm talking BF and COD here, they always use real weapons so why wouldn't they use pictures as references, I honestly don't see how they could make their models without references because it's not like these gays guys are going to know what a M240 looks like off the top of their head.

Protocol 2 of the Geneva Conventions prohibits their use to make human tendies, they're only supposed to be used to clear foliage. If there's no pretext for their use it becomes to legally questionable to deploy them.

You're right about warhammers though, kinetic energy is dope.

i'm surprised nobody except the op is complaining about macs.

no mac 10/11 fires under 1000 rpms from my knowledge. correct me if i'm wrong.

and far cry 2 and rainbow six series get it right for once.

the one in vegas imo is the most accurate representation in any game.

why is the firing rate on the mac 10/11 so taboo? that's what makes it fun. that high fire rate. its weak irl. for balancing, they should just have low damage and keep the fire rate just like far cry 2.

Because if it fires so much and has such a small magazine players are less likely to use it because it feels weaker. Devs also have to balance it to be weaker because of the high fire rate.

And that is why they're no longer used. That and the lack of a conventional war to justify deploying them in the only sensible way, which is by building a flame tank.

This doesn't happen if you use it correctly.

I think it's more a high skill cap thing they are trying to avoid. If you are good with it you can get your 32 rounds on target in 1 and a half seconds making it devastating in the right hands.
At the same time if you are just a little off and only tap the trigger you are going to waste ~10 rounds and 1/3rd of your mag.

then why even put it into the game if you are going to nerf the fire rate? they might as well replace it with another smg.

there's absolutely no point. the fire rate is what defines a mac. devs take that out and we get a pointless weapon. csgo demonstrates this pretty well.

See

The devs do not care about the fire rate of the gun irl. To them it's entirely irrelevant.

large machineguns definitely get portrayed the worse, too many times i've picked up a minigun in a shooter game and it doesn't turn my enemies into paste, even LMGs you see a lot in games like the m249 completely lacks the punch i desire. granted it's mostly for balance reasons but still disappointing that i'm not turning my opposition into mulch

it's a beast in rainbow six siege, so much so they had to remove one of its scope options to stop people using it as a pocket-sniper

The thing that pisses me off the most is that a shot from a pistol almost always does more damage than a shot from an assault rifle.

It depends on which game you're referring to

I know CS Go for instance has the AK-47 kill with a headshot regardless of helmet.

But pistols for instance can take multiple shots to the head to kill if you have a helmet

Any shotgun

All of them.

Pretty much no game knows about the round in the chamber.

A lot of games have an additional reload animation if you empty your gun and reload. In MGS5 once you start a mission you have to reload in order to get a full clip because you lose 1 round in the chamber. This also occurs when you fire all of a gun's bullets. This only occurs with guns that have magazines and not for instance revolvers.

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Maybe he's talking about a speedloader.
H-he's talking about a speedloader, right?

because its an anime game. Also because its fucking impossible on madness without them.

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HES NOT TALKING ABOUT REVOLVERS

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Revolvers aren't the only type of firearm with speedloaders.

I'm referring to how the game distinguishes between it's magazine loaded weapons and it's revolvers. I'm pointing out how it pays direct attention to the bullet in the chamber by having this feature exist only with guns that have a magazine.

I thought there'd be a single thread on this board devoid of autism and I was proven wrong yet again

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Just watch your posts in the future. I know I will.

meme weapon

Insurgency did shotguns well, slugs are really deadly and normal buck 1shots up to 15m easily.

Isn't the FAL for the US the L1A1?

Shotguns always get the short end of the stick.

The last time I played a multiplayer game where shotguns were actually… Effective beyond flipping a coin was Bad Company 2 before they started nerfing/patching things.

Then, I fire up Hardline and for fuck's sake.

Regular Rounds.

Breaching Round.

Slugs.

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just so you know, this has literally never happened in the history of warfare. the worst injuries ever recorded were from some poor Kraut in WW2 who got the propellant all over himself and I think burned his limbs off, but there was no combustion whatsoever

TLDR saving private ryan is not history, but based on the fact that you don't know flamethrowers have been banned by international law since just after Vietnam speaks volumes on its own

>>>/tumblr/

Return to Caste Wolfenstein has a fucking awesome flamethrower.

lmao nice meme
also the bonus points you get by killing enemies in HM2 are irrelevant since the combo bonus (if pulled off really well, like 20x atleast) will straight up shoot your score to S-rankings. The Flamer does this job really well since it kill almost everyone I MEAN ALMOST EVERYONE EXCEPT THOSE FUCKS WHO DODGE THE FLAME ARC JUST BY FUCKING DUCKING, ATLEAST THOSE FAT FUCKS CAN BURN TO OILY CRISPS WITH THE FAT BURNING AWAY FOR ALL I CARE in one burst of fire (it can go through people but not windows)

No, it's simply not the same with the FAL

Still pretty underpowered though tbhq, the slugs are great and can kill anyone that have a full plate on but the shottie has a very noticeable sway and it's full moon ring sight obscures more than it focuses on. Also reload speed

Sorry bruh never played it
what's its like?

That reason is that the amount of collateral damage a flamethrower would do in an urban environment would sink the army's funding as fast as a nuclear war would.
Unless I'm mistaken, the liquid-based flamethrowers that saw military use just used the basic principles seen in the Super Soaker but with jellied gasoline instead of water, and leaking Super Soakers don't explode.

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Fantasy art in general has a big tendency to exaggerate weapon sizes that's been taken to increasingly absurd extremes over the years.

Apparently, a lot of it started with D&D miniatures; unlike the historical minis of previous generations, they were made to show off the characters' weapons, and thus had them be a lot bigger than they would be to scale. This got especially bad when Japan imported them (early edition D&D was crazy popular in Japan) and since most of them hadn't studied Western history and didn't know what medieval weapons and armour were meant to look like, so proceeding fantasy artists who took inspiration from Western fantasy because it's exotic.

And then compound that with how early video games have much of the same limitations; with sprite and low poly art, realistically sized weapons may be barely visible, so you need to make them bigger proportionately. And then, you end up with artist who want to actually make a big imposing weapon to stand out, so you end up with Cloud's fucking hunk of metal and Sephiroth's polearm-length katana.

And then on the other end, you get Warhammer exaggerating everything to ridiculous levels on purpose, and everyone else missing the joke and doing it completely unironically. (see Warcraft) By the time that technology catches up enough to render historically accurate weapons, everyone's used to warhammers being giant hunks of metal and the real world ones look weird.

TL;DR: Successive generations of artists copying and exaggerating other artists without any real life references ends up with weird shit with no relation to reality, and only history nerds really care.

Pretty much. They just aren't practical.

Apparently they used to have a niche as an engineer's weapon, being able to destroy equipment and information, but with basically all warfare since WW2 being wildly asymmetrical it's rare they ever need to do that either.

It's a lot like that anime guy complaining that people making modern anime are all a bunch of nerds that only watch other anime for inspiration, and so they end up with characters that don't move, act or talk like real human beings at all.

I agree.

Any and all shotgun iron sights in insurgency are a fucking pain.

It's still fun to use, though.

"Fucking awesome" is an overstatement but it's not bad. The main issues are the lack of after-effects, and that you can just tap-fire it on enemies a few times to light them up. Also despite the screaming baddies it can be used for silent kills..

Speaking of fire weapons, I wish Zelda would've copied the Four Swords Adventure fire rod more. Dragon Tanks in C&C Generals are cool too.

Nah QTEs are gay. I think M&B Warband comes somewhat close to the way sword combat works. It creates the right type of behavior in spite of its inaccuracies.

An optimal system would contain the four hanging guards - the ox and the plow on both sides. From there players could thrust, or cut the four father strikes that form an X through the opponent's face. This would create a foundation for attacking and defending the four quarters, which takes care of the fundamental basis of longsword. It'd also create the ability to deceive, since you can hold a certain guard to fool your opponent while intending to do something else. If it's the Liechtenauer tradition including the 5 master cuts would be the next priority. A modifier button could be held to swap out the father strikes for the more advanced strikes, which would need to be used with much more accurate timing and planning to work properly. Wrath would counter cuts from above. The thwart would be the fastest choice for a follow up attack. The crooked cut would defeat people who attack from or linger in ox, and the squinter would work the same way against plow. The parting cut would be the cheap shot that can hit from a mile away but will fuck you over if someone is prepared for it.

The speed at which you throw all the different strikes should be faster or slower depending on how readily available they are from the guard you're in. This would add tremendous psychological depth of gameplay, since you'd be able to predict to some extent the attacks that a person is likely to attempt depending on their posture.

Even though that's just scratching the surface of the art it's already enough to make a compelling game out of. Developers have no excuse, it's 4 postures and 17 attack animations total.

yes it does brother, yes it does
Also HP rounds are criminally underrated since it can kill anyone if you shoot him in the legs / arms
>insert E.Y.E joke here

Huh, so that's why flame troopers are rarely taken prisoner by the enemy

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SoF1 is all about shotguns and grenades tho.
Shame that its multiplayer is ded with literally 12 servers left.

So on the subject of guns, what games have good BAR sexyness?

Every shotgun ever.

Spread is basically birdshot x10 in every single FPS.
Reticle takes up 1/4th the fucking screen.
Why do devs do this?

Why the shotgun hate?

fuck you planetside 2 you are the worst goddamn offender in this nonsense too. I don't have to stand on someone for a shotgun to do fucking damage

i dunno if you can call it hate or just a tough thing to balance

If it's a tactical shooter and you can die in 2~3 hits then basically the balance for shotguns should be the damage falloff over range.

A point blank should 1-shot you.

A range much further should be absorbed more by the body armor, etc meaning 2-shots or more just like everything else.

Time to kill and all that theory would be based around proximity of somewhat close range, while being viable in mid range and spread/falloff being too great for mid-long range and further.

there aren't many tactical shooters, and lots of games with the guise of being tactical (COD, battlefield) have wide open maps that don't facilitate shotguns wel

A steel plate is enough to stop any slug, not even 50 12 gauge slugs shots can get through a steel plate. Shotguns are great for unarmored targets, not so much to kill soldiers.
There are special slugs to penetrate armor, but that's not a common thing.

I haven't played any of the modern CoD games, but can't remember any map having particularly big open areas. Hitting shit with a slug at 150-200 yards is not that hard. That should be plenty enough.

They do have many valid excuses, unfortunately. You're severely overestimating both the intelligence and skill level of your modern video game player. Not only that, you're underestimating the ineptitude, and the corruption, rooted in the industry itself. You must also get with the times and understand that we are no longer the core audience.

To give a bit of insight into how it works:
1. publisher has developer on a tight leash; developer has no free reign to design complicated mechanics as it is deemed too hard to grasp by internal testers
mechanics considered complicated by the average hobbyperson, mind you

2. publisher allows a modicum of freedom on to the developers, but developers fail to utilize economically viable solutions; no strong leader in any teams to wrangle the tards
>cut content which is then later restored and shipped out as new

There's many more examples - I haven't even gone into the subversive, the propagandistic, and the subliminal. Bottom line is the only way you'll get something of quality in current year is if it is made for, made by, and funded by the fans with a healthy dose of luck.

What's with all of the /k/ autism today?

Back when this game was good I used to play a LOT of Japanese sniper. And While I was a pretty good shot, and had a keen eye for the flamers, every now and then I would whiff a few rounds and moments later see flames and hear screams as the kill feed lit up.

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He mentions magazines in his post, though, so I think it's safe to say he understands.

No, you retard, they aren't used because thermobaric weapons exist, which are better than flamethrowers in every way.

oh hell yea

Mainstream publishers are agonizingly slow to respond to trends in the market (besides CD Projekt Red) which is why smaller teams have already capitalized on the growing medieval niche. Kingdom Come: Deliverance was able to acquire an investor to fund most of the game and a publisher to port it to consoles, and it's substantially more complex than what I've just described. The success of Mount & Blade relative to its budget is further proof that there's a demand for this type of game. And now Ubisoft has clearly received the memo that swords are "in" although their game is probably going to miss the target audience completely and bomb.

I might add that a lot of action games (Ninja Gaiden, MGR) contain combat systems that are hard to master and contain hundreds of animations, yet still do well enough financially to be released on consoles and serialized.

It's probable that the reason games involving realistic fencing haven't appeared until recently is that the manuscripts themselves remained poorly understood until recently. 10 years ago very few people knew what European fighting systems looked like. But there isn't an excuse anymore. Such a system wouldn't even be difficult to understand since it could be introduced to players piecemeal, in the same way an action or fighting game introduces combos one at a time.

I think they fixed the Wex.

Though it is more practical than conventional flamethrower, you can't deny the flamethrower is pretty cool

Nah, see you've only described zufechten/outfighting; that is scratching the surface of fencing. The real fun and gritty part about swordfighting is what you do once you're in range, essentially once you've found contact with the opponents sword.

Do you try to push through? Hit over his defence? Go around his sword—with the point or the pommel? Use your crossguard to bind his hands as you cut him? Parry him with wide play and grab his sword so you can cut his face open, one-handed? Do you go into ringen/grappling? Do you just rush the fucker and throw him?

There's also literally no reasonable way of translating fuhlen into a game either, so you literally have to slow it down because eyesight is like 1.5 times slower than of touch is in reaction-speed, and you can't get the intricacies of Weak and Strong of two swords interacting to decide who actually has the advantage.

But on the other hand, if you made it like you said as the basic mode of combat and had QTE finishers like I described, it could be fun.

Mouse 1 for blade attacks, Mouse 2 for pommel. WASD directional inputs to decide what kind of technique would be used, etc.

Seriously, how come you never get to grapple with a sword? Don't devs know that the best thing about swords is when you smash your pommel in your opponent's face?

Fiore says:

That's an idea I had after thinking about it for a bit. If you were able to hold the vor consistently for several hits it should soften up the opponent enough that you could initiate close play, at which point you'd get to choose a finishing technique and the opponent would have a limited ability to counter it. I think any attempt to simulate fuhlen, weak/strong, edge/flat, etc. is futile in a videogame. It should be assumed that your character knows how to do these things already, and it's your job to simply pick the right techniques and timing against what you can see the opponent doing.

Handling double hits would be a nightmare, especially in an environment where there are no consequences for dying. 90% of players would be buffaloes and just wildly cut at openings with no regard for their own safety.

If a video game was released with the actual levels of medieval brutality and gritty combat that happened it would probably be called "edgy" by shitlords and lumped into the same games as Hatred and Manhunt.

Armored combat was a mess, blunt force and throwing opponents to the ground to stab them was the only reliable way of killing anything. Specialised weapons at the time were design to pull armored people for a reason.

TC Contender. Hunting rifle squeezed down into a break-open pistol.

Because everyone wore armor all the time back then, and there's no possible reason you'd want to learn how to fight without it, right? Also I see a lot of people being thrown to the ground in that video.

People that matter during actual conflicts and/or duels: Yes. At least from the 12-13th century and onward, armor was quite common on relevant units and incredibly protective.
And they weren't getting thrown with fancy techniques, they would get pushed, kicked or hooked from the side and pulled to the ground; then stabbed, mainly through the helmet area.

People's live revolved around war too, battling was an integral part of the life of soldiers and nobles, they would do train like this, there are clear records of that, but that doesn't mean all the techniques were carried over to the actual battlefield. If you want to make a game about nobles roughing up each other on their spare time, go ahead, get fancy, it would work like shit with keyboard or controller. If you want to portrait real war from the perspective of a relevant unit, start by working the damage system from scratch because no game has ever done that correctly.

The only way to really stop a person in their tracks is to destroy their nervous system. There's a difference between fatal and instantly fatal. If you hit someone in the heart they won't die instantly. Their body can still produce ATP for a little bit.

Nobody important follows the Geneva convention. Russia used dum-dum rounds in Afghanistan. The reason flamethrowers are gone is because thermobaric rockets are superior.

There was nothing wrong with manhunt 1

That's not how flamethrowers work.

Running under someone's weapon and wrapping your arm around them to throw them isn't even a fancy technique, it's the most straightforward way to get someone off the ground unless you have a polearm.

Just because something doesn't have an apparent application inside a densely packed formation in a set-piece battle doesn't mean it had no battlefield application at all. Obviously the documented techniques don't work in an environment where the only action available to you is to stand in place and hit the man in front of you. But formations break down eventually, and not every engagement even fit that archetype.

I was never talking about formation. Please read at least one record of a duel between armored opponents before proceeding with your claims.

What if you squeeze it into a weird bullpup

I've read several, for example the duel between Carrouges and Le Gris. What are you trying to say at this point?

Actually, if guns were realistic, shotguns, pistols, and SMGs would be rarely if ever used in a video game, just like in real life modern warfare.

Shotguns and pistols are more useful in civilian contexts, and the niche of SMGs is not only p much useless in a realistic video game context, but something like an MP5 is already outclassed by guns like a .300 blackout SBR with integral suppression.

That there is no fancy technique, people bashing each other, pushing and kicking, specially with swords. Halfswording was just there to make swords useful as blunt weapons, the convenience of better control for stabbing through gaps/helmet visor was only useful once the faggot was on the floor. All the sword locking bullshit from the video is just training bullshit: A good way to get familiar with the interaction between swords, not something people were doing while fighting for their lives.

You can't possibly support that claim, given the paltry handful of judicial duel accounts which often contain conflicting and incorrect information, written by people who weren't experts on the subject. How about this instead: the masters that passed down these techniques made a living teaching other people how to fight judicial duels after winning several themselves. There is no source more primary than that.

"All technique goes out the window when you fight for real" is a fucking meme and obviously cannot be true, because that would leave physical fitness as the only factor affecting the outcome of a fight. If training was meaningless people wouldn't do it in the first place. Just hoist rocks all day before jumping in the ring and swinging wildly, you'll surely win.

What are some games with some good shotguns? Just fun and effective to use.

Doom is cheating

You are forgetting weight and maneuverability, many soldiers in the middle east breach houses / rooms with their pistol because it's so much quicker and easier to maneuver in tight spaces and the enemy never have armor.

As for SBRs replacing SMGs that is mainly due to it being cheaper to have the military and police forces use the same platform.
If you actually listen to cops that breach you will find all of them prefer SMGx / shotguns.
policelink.monster.com/topics/61271-entry-stack-weapons-carbine-smg-or-shotgun/posts

There's ways of balancing it, just like characteristics of real life shotguns. The military and LEO use them for breaching(its why the muzzle break on military shotguns is "spiky" so it can dig into the wood of a door). However, the person with the shotgun can't be the first one in due to having to manually chamber each shotshell. In other words, the "real world balance" of shotgun is their rate of fire and limited ammo capacity. Automatic shotguns(AA-12, saiga) have the problem of limited magazine capacity, because magazines compress the shells which are relatively soft plastic.

Also, another real world consideration for shotgun is the type of shell. There are many, not just 00 buck, and they all have their situational uses.

The easiest way of balancing shotguns is bigger maps that way a realistic shotgun is still limited by it's effective range.

To be fair, the M16A4 in Insurgency is burst fire. Pretty sure most of the M16 family is burst/semi only.

is that a FAMAS?

>>>/autism/

...

checked
Found the urbanite who's only experience with .guns is vidya.

Naw, that's a P90.

youtube.com/watch?v=-VKGhqIl4Gw
You might find this interesting.

insurgency had alright shotties, last time i played it in February

M16A3 and 4 models are semi/burst, A1&2 are full/semi.

IIRC, A1 and A3 are semi/full auto, while A2 and A4 are semi/burst fire.

You're a fucking moron.

Fiore, for example, made a fucking living out of teaching mercenaries and nobles his techniques, which have most of the same basic principles that exist in the other Italian, German and English styles. If they didn't work, he would have been out of a fucking job. You don't have a tradition of martial history that lasts over 300 years, with constant wars being fought all over, if the shit doesn't work.

Crysis 1 had adjustable shotgun choke

one of the many reasons crysis is the best game in it's little genre of military shooters.

Stripper clips are fast for reloading. You can slap SKS-specific detatchable mags on them, or get an adapter for AK mags (some rarer variants were made to work with AK mags).

Ergonomics aren't bad at all. It's heavy, but that weight soaks up a lot of recoil.

wow I never would have guessed.

Yeah, because it's a war crime.

The pancor in SOF1 was lousy at the end. Enemies had body armor so it didn't work as well as the regular shotgun. Also the shots could bounce back at you.

It has appeared in some videogames like the World is not enough 64 as a unguided/laser guided rocket launcher and in Nightfire with a remote controlled camera function.

imfdb.org/wiki/M202_FLASH

It appeared in No one lives forever where it fired an explosive round.

A2 and A4 are semi/burst. A1 and A3 had full/burst/semi.

Real flamethrowers also have maybe 9 seconds worth of fuel.

I love E.Y.E. but come on, the shotguns are trash, even the pistols are better

youtube.com/watch?v=3K_qt7ardBo

I love videos like these.

GET THE FUCK OUT. GET THE FUCK OUT RIGHT NOW

Nigger, they are shit. They don't work reliably beyond a few metres.

I'll give you the other two, but the despezador is great, and works fine at longer ranges.

Jesus, could you imagine the endless wave of salt about it being OP if flamethrowers were portrayed correctly? You wouldnt even need to be hit by the flame, just being in the same room with it would kill you.

Incendiary weapons as a whole just don't get enough love in vidya.

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what said. The Dorpsbewonder is one of the best shotguns in video games.

This. Getting shot in the tank would knock you down but wouldn't blow you up.

Not if they're using incendiary rounds, in which case you're going to get barbecued.
Even then, anyone maintaining a respectable distance from you will feel no worse than anyone standing near a bonfire that's also screaming and made out of a friend.

You're thinking too small; try the same room and all rooms below it. Just imagine, killing the entire enemy team with a single burst.

Ironically **The Division* gives you this handy little flamethrower turret that's great for crowd control via making enemies dance while burning alive.

The real disadvantage to flamethrowers is that you have maybe 8 seconds of burn time in a tank, and most flamethrowers have some kind of pyrotechnic igniter charge, giving you only a couple of "shots", 3 or 4 at most. Many flamethrowers even have a system to give it a fixed burntime, so you're not going to be able to stretch the fuel out.

Also everyone saying they're illegal is retarded. the US actually humored the idea of developing a smaller, lighter version for use in afghanistan, enough that some concepts were drawn up before being dropped.

thats probably because you are playing halo

GTAV marksman pistol

It isn't funny I just makes you look like a faggot.

See for example, the only games I know of that are actually realistic (ie. damage is based on cartridge instead of gun) are Red Orchestra and ARMA. Even Insurgency and Squad are guilty of fudging the numbers.