Starcraft 2 Discussion

this was a thing in the first starcraft too, but it wasnt upfront about it. a dragoon or siege tank(mobile) will do less damage to zerglings or marines for example

I've never played any shitcraft but

Watch youtube gameplay of pro dawn of war 1 tournaments then pro dawn of war soulstorm tournaments then starcraft 2 gameplay (or tourneys).
Kill yourself.

Starcraft 2 has multiple issues, including

I don't usually like 3D but dayum.

Because it contains hardly any real strategy honestly.

but the campaign was fun to play

Embed related.

Making the game more streamlined and clean ruined a lot of the depth of strategy that came with working around the clunkiness of it. Instead of trying to make 'Starcraft 2: The Game', they tried to make Starcraft the Sequel. They did what any idiot company does, they took things that were iconic and put them in a game that 'fixed' the issues of the game, such as unit pathing, being able to control your entire army in one group and game-winning abilities like plague.
Wings of Liberty was packaged with some 20~ units in the campaign, and you could complete it in its entirely without using the majority of skirmish units, resulting in players completing the campaign and not being able to play the campaign. This served as a duel-purpose of showing really cool shit you couldn't use, strategies that just weren't allowed. I'm sure there would be plenty of people who would have loved to use Firebats, Medics, Vultures and Goliaths in skirmish, but nope, too bad.
Undoing the character arcs for the sake of a cheesy romance story and prophecy plot made old fans sick to the stomach and really didn't represent the political drama foundation starcraft was built upon.
They tried to sell it as an esports where esports are formed from a dedicated fanbase and community who want to play and play competitively. Brood War formed this way. CS formed this way. Dota formed this way.

The Protoss campaign was actually pretty great, albeit not too challenging. It really was in the spirit of Starcraft. A group went around using political leverage to gather an assortment of allies that provided a bunch of 'compare contrast' units. Everyone had their own motive, characters had their own issues, Fenix was struggling with his identity, Alarak was just in it for power, etc. It lead to a more interesting environment.

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Meanwhile, CS:GO…

I don't know much about cs (or csgo) but from what I've heard it's basically CS: The Original with new graphics and everything is free except colors for knives.

CS:GO update and develop another company under Valve.

That swimsuit looks uncomfortable.

SC2 is shit. I only bought it to play with friends, but the commie bullshit ruined that. I lost my friends and I'm out almost $200. After that I became so isolated and depressed that I dropped out of school and moved into my parents basement. Now I work nights at a box factory and play DotA 2 all day. SC2 ruined my life.

What do you mean by commie bullshit user?

You didn't notice the smash-the-patriarchy-communist-matriarchy-now plot? Amon was the ultimate patriarch.

Just watch the Rohanna cutscenes. I couldn't stop cringing. It hurt too much.

I couldn't stop thinking about how my friends didn't notice after and now…

Yeah sure bud

How is this even a question, it's quite obvious that neo-neo/v/ is shit at video games

Problem with the game is that it's much too scissor paper rock, so entire armies/mineral lines can be wiped out much too quickly, ending the game then and there.

Pros complained that it's too hard, and blizzard doesn't care

You can take your snark to the oven. The entire course of LotV was rejecting all the hatefacts the patriarchy, embodied by Rohana and Amon, had to offer in favor of their idyllic fantasy world as everyone forgot why they were enemies in the first place and sang kumbaya. It was bullshit.

You are hilarious Holla Forums

ASSFAGGOTS everyone

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Oh, and there's fucking Mengsk and all the rest of the fucking terrans, but the world is so fucking tiny in the commie mind they must have forgotten. All they had was his shite commie revolutionary son, but no other intrigue like what led to his rule. Just fucking drama.

It's shit and it's old. You must be a stupid nigger, Metzen, if you still don't fucking get why people hate you after all this time.

Intelligent pathfinding and removal of OP game-ending abilities makes it a bad game?

Intelligent pathfinding meant there was no real skill in managing your armies except in microing away from damage/kiting. Units didn't get stuck, so there was no need to control them on a deeper level.
Git gud. I bet you complained about Civ 4 doomstack too.

Isn't that just needless complexity? It appears to be some superficial and petty means of declaring one player skilled and another unskilled, rather than being any meaningful measure of skill. As an example, I clickspam in any RTS I play out of habit, but I didn't know it made a difference in Starcraft until I watched that video, does that make me a skilled player? Am I unskilled despite naturally using clickspam because I didn't understand its purpose and/or effect?

SC2 alternated between being imbalanced and being mostly balanced but mind-bendingly boring. LOTV finally kind of hit a good balance between the two about six years too late.

A large part of this is that the team never had a practical idea of what SC2 was supposed to look like or how to accomplish it. They wanted the fast back and forth of Brood War but make it easier to control, and when they tried to do this they turned the game into twenty minutes of turtling followed by one deathball fight followed by GG for years. The balance never had any kind of coherent guiding philosophy or leadership, the Terrran 1/1/1 timing got completely deleted from the game within two weeks just as the player base was starting to figure it out seriously they changed like eight fucking things over that one timing attack, then the Protoss blink stalker all-in was left alone for months and months until the GSL was half Protoss because they didn't want to repeat the same mistake until it was balanced not by the players finding a solution but by a new map pool that made it easier to defend. A large part of deciding what to balance was done solely by win percentages rather than what was productive and what was cancerous which produced periods of stagnation and incredible tedium but very balanced win rates, again pointing at a lack of leadership.

Unit and race design is lacking in vision or coherency. Every problem is patched over with spellcasters and numbers tweaks and every new unit is alternately never tested and overpowered or focus grouped to mediocrity. Adepts nearly completely displaced Zealots and had to have their damage adjusted downward by a single point because they shredded SCVs too well for a unit that could be built in the enemy's base, which is a long-running problem for Protoss: the total mediocrity of warpgate units because they have to suck in order to balance the fact that they can be built anywhere on the map extremely quickly, so the higher tier units have to make up for this fragility, so a big ball of the proper units is almost impossible to deal with because the higher tier units are very strong, etc. This problem has been clear since HOTS and nobody made an attempt to fix it.

LOTV's pretty good but the game's dying. The Starcraft Pro League died recently and a lot of big money legacy teams with it, which is only going to hurt the level that the game is played at. Maybe that'll make it easier for unteamed players and foreigners to break into the GSL but I don't care about that at all.

And the story is shit but the single player's pretty fun.

sorry for the rambling

The point is that it's the COMBINATION of elements that creates depth. Unit control is one skill, build order/optimization is another skill, strategizing on the fly is another, and so on. When the game just hands you these things for the sake of "streamlining" the skill ceiling plummets and you end with shit like SC2's unnecessary macro mechanics to make up for it, only that fails miserably because it's busywork with no dynamic elements. Spam clicking isn't a mechanic, it has nothing to do with "skill" in the context you're trying to put it in. It's tech. It's a symptom of people finding ways to perform better.

Several hours in and no one mentioned how they fucking cut LAN, always online bullshit, and how they killed the mapping community with paid maps?

The game could have went well if they didn't go full retard on the comic bookstorytelling and Hollywood blockbuster shit "All 3 factions must stand and unite to face a great evil!" also that 4X Koprulu Sector with multiple factions and units mod will never come out, GG Blizzard, can't wait for those Starcraft Anniversary skins for fucking Overwatch.

Not having to install a botnet just to play it.
Ortho or near ortho FOV.
Graphics that don't look like WC3 with shaders.
Unfuck the entire sound design.
Remove the faster meme speed that the game wasn't designed for.
Let us use the fun units in MP.

I can see the point about different playstyles emerging from some of the limitations, but autistic things like using an overlord to clump mutalisks should not be a part of the game. There should just be formation options instead.
Glitch gameplay kills multiplayer in the long run. The more shit that doesn't make sense that you have to do, the less fun a game becomes. If you have to look up how to perform autistic clicking rituals that sound like my dad at nintendo shit instead of playing the game, most people will just uninstall.

Worst thing is, you need to catch all these bugs while the game's still in development, because autists using them as a crutch will eat you alive if you patch them out anytime after release.

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The same 200 people playing a game over and over don't count.
But feel free to call me a faggot a thousand times more, because I'm not repeating the popular opinion.

At the time it was technical limitations and intended features not working as intended. As is displayed in the video, when a group of units is ordered to move, they will attempt to move to the new location into the formation they started in, however this becomes a problem when they reach a cliff and start bumping into each other, causing massive pathing issues as they get blocked. Why would you click out of habit in an RTS except to manage your units more precisely? You don't take a unit group and right click the same spot on the ground 5-6 times. You click around an area to manipulate the position of the units into the order you're trying to achieve, even in SC2 when you're trying to get your blob into a certain order or shape.

I've heard a lot of stupid arguments, but 'glitch gameplay kills Brood War' is a new one. It was what made Brood War have mechanical depth.
If you want to be among the toppest of pros in a videogame you had better believe you learn the autistic shit you need to do to beat them. If you want to play the game casually, it's not stopping you. It's not stopping anyone. I don't get how you could possibly think otherwise in the face of how radically popular the game was at all levels of play.

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Go easy on him user. He wasn't an adult back then.

No more stupid than 'Brood War couldn't be a good game if you removed some of the more autistic glitches', or 'lack of glitches is why SC2 is shit'.
I'd like to see you try to get a hundred people into the game, then explain to them the amount of stupid shit they're gonna have to do in order to play at any decent level, show them the video above, show them the gif of some gook quitting because he didn't click his drones right in the first half a second. See how many are left after that.

That's the cancer killing vidya.

Cancer killing vidya is the casuals who are so shit at video games they get triggered by esports

Can I just show them, like, golem madness? Or am I ruining your lazy bias argument?
SC:BW is good at all levels of play, single or multiplayer, pro or casual, skirmish or other maps.
SC2 is only half-way decent at casual level of play and excruciatingly dreary at pro level, without a good campaign to back it.

BW is a great game, and I love it. It's great because of the near-perfect unit and faction balance, and the absurdly wide variety of strategical options, while managing not to be an overly complicated mess.
But saying that glitches are the reason it's better than SC2, and that SC2 would be better if only it forced you to click minerals individually and simulated shit like auto-generated bounding boxes for sprites, is nigger tier retarded.
I'm not even defending SC2 because it's somehow actually more autistic and less fun than BW. But there's a better game than both somewhere in there, and it's unlikely to ever be made unless people somehow get their hands on BW's source.

Now get your dick out of 741992's rectum and stop pretending that Starcraft is doing great just because it's not as dead as Quake. But it's getting there.

This argument is going in circles.
No shit SC2 wouldn't be better with the bugs and pathing issues from Brood War in it. There's also the 5 or so other things I said about it. SC2 is an inferior game on pretty much every level, with the only exception being 'ease of use', and that seems to be all the faggots who defend it talk about.

i would pay for a remake of warcraft 1 with a cleaned up interface that let you select more than 4 units at a time

The whole thing started with you linking that SHIT video and backing up its claim that ease of use is what's wrong with SC2.
Not only some of the things shown in there add nothing to the game, but some of them aren't even reliable (like anything related to pathing and formations), adding a pseudo random element into the mix.
The only reason the game behaves that way is that it was made to run on Pentium shitboxes with dial up internet, meaning it couldn't do any other pathfinding than simple A* ran for every unit individually, and couldn't auto-repath every unit on the map too frequently without chugging.
SC2 did nothing wrong by
and the only reason anyone is defending these old bugs is because they've invested a lot of time into learning how to get around them.
In other words, it's as if people were forced to form a meta around the efficient use of a Madcatz controller.

Didn't realize Warcraft 1 had a serious competitive metagame in which controlling only 4 units was an important part of balance to prevent deathballs. My bad.

You also missed
Oh wait a second, they didn't fix that. They intentionally added it in. Well shit let's pretend they didn't for the sake of convenience for your argument. Don't worry user, I wouldn't dream of accusing you of being intentionally dense.

There is literally nothing wrong with streamlining unit control and enonomy as long as the game's core values in balance and strategy are mantained.

I mean, look at games like Supreme Commander, it still has lobbies of thousands playing because of how deep the strategic usefulness of every unit, structure and faction can affect a match, as well as player skill. And most people agree that it's a better game than TA, despite having an easier economy balance and unit control requiring tons of tricks in TA like T1 bomber glitches and artillery anti-air stuff.

Had it been released in the internet age, it would have.

There is no mechanical depth coming from broken pathing, it reduces depth by gimping unit control.
Keeping a bug because gooks would cry if you didn't doesn't justify a thing.
You argue like a woman.

I can't believe this retard is still posting. What a sad little missed abortion.

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Community is shit too.
A terran with probably the greatest unit control in SC2 history just won blizzard's tournament and teamliquid faggots are already up in arms that one of the units is imbalanced.

Did your buttbuddy ask for backup again?

neo-neo/v/ was a mistake

Managing your units effectively is mechanical depth and broken pathing requires you to manage your units effectively. You argue like a moron and you probably think wave dashing is an exploit.
No, no one should intentionally gimp their pathing so that a game has more mechanical depth, and Blizzard didn't, but the fact it exists and players had to work around it meant it raised the level of skill the game required, it just also happened to be an excellent strategy game meaning this wasn't a detriment, whereas removing it for Starcraft 2 is one of the many reasons Starcraft 2 wasn't as good. How is this so hard to understand?

You literally can't handle two people disagreeing with you.

also hard counters everywhere. Hey look I built 2 counter units, your whole army is now useless.

gotta love it when people think they can "create and eSport"

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Some bugs become core features if they lead to positive things.
As you can see in sc2 the removal and steamlining of pathfinding lead to deathballs and 2 marines being able to push heavier allied units in any direction.

No, retarded unit design created deathballs.

You can disagree without acting like a pack of sheboons.
I guarantee you that if pathing in BW was fixed, the game would be no less deep. People would just find something more interesting to do with the time they waste babysitting their retarded marines, and matches would be decided by, you know, strategy instead of petty autistic shit.

Great.
I've been arguing this entire time with someone who has never watched competitive Brood War.

You sure showed him with your facts.

It sucks because it is a) a Gook Clickan Gaem and b) made bei Nu-Blizzard.

Even with the tons of new AoE and unit design changes it's still a thing. Pathfinding that allows such fast movement is the main reason.

I had a reply, but this user just said it even better than I could.

This isn't even funny anymore, just sad

so what youre saying is the game lacks in any real strategy and this is the one thing holding it together? i dont know if i would agree with that

For the sake of argument let's say that the state of SC2 really is better pathfinding and not broken UI.
What's the cure? Bring back 12 units control groups, worse UI and retarded AI?
Is this how you want video games to progress?

No. I am saying that bad pathfinding made battles feel more meaningful and last longer. Simple tight spots, ramps etc had more value then as opposed to now.

Yeah, because of how ramps worked in sc1 vs sc2.
In sc2 defender's advantage is a joke.

according to the koreans terran is the weakest at the momentm but hey im sure a bunch of scrubs opinions trump the korean opinions.

Yeah well, team liquid is the cucked community where tards go "EVERYTHING IS FINE" despite viewership numbers being at all time low, SC1 beating SC2 in popularity, SC2 leagues and teams disbanding and players retiring.

i know what you mean. its one of the differences between supreme commander and total annihilation. but soupcan wasnt afraid to take dozens of other liberties to differentiate itself.
this guy makes sense if you think of it that way.

i think the bigger contributor here is unit and map design.

the ramps are just straight up bigger and theres no chance to miss on units in higher ground.

It's hilarious. The thread about SC2 proleague closing down got a moderator edit on top of it with something like "absolutely no bashing blizzard, dead game comments or talking about pros switching to BW". They're still in denial.

And that's huge.

Still dunno why they did that. Even RTS games like age of empires have highground advantage. Why remove it ?

Same reason why they allowed protoss to make units on the other side of the map within seconds- brain problems. And corruption.

The whole game is designed around super fast fights, APM spam and continuously remaking disposable units. That's why they've kept the deathballs, they're there by design. High ground advantage = better defense = slower play, which would go opposite the way they design the gameplay.

its a big damn deal, but we were talking about pathfinding, blobbing and a-moves interactions with the ramps.

im guessing they wanted to remove rng. although i think controlled or situational rng can be interesting. would a flat damage reduction be a better way to handle that?

Other than what said?
Maybe slow down combat a little, make unit pathing a little chunkier to form a battlefront rather than a deathball, or alternatively add formations. Make big units feel rewarding, both to build and use and to take down.

If you want my more wild and crazy suggestions, make the game more polarizing for each race. Give Zerg hero units and protoss special abilities they can use from their orbiting ships, then give Terran something to balance it out. Give each faction all their campaign units and balance around that. Give players more options. Make factions and play styles more defined. Encourage customization.

Alternatively, play the Heptacraft mod, which has 7 factions, attack speed slowed around 40% when attacking up hill, a more brood war inspired style of design/balance and a fixed-rate-resource that you can use to get powerful upgrades/units. Has its own discord.

It would work if compositions such as terran mech would work but mech is probably weaker than ever in lotv thanks to zerg vipers and ravagers and protoss disruptors.

THIS!

Units don't just have advantages/disadvantages in SC2 there are all out hard counters. SC2 is more like Warcraft 3: Space Edition then a Starcraft game.

rip goliath, and thanks Blizz for teasing players with simultaneous-air-ground-attack goliaths.

Yeah the protoss unit spam really enforces the fast combat design like said

In age of empires there is something like a 25% damage increase for units firing from a highground.
The SC1 ~47% miss chance is much much bigger in effect but offers survivability instead of damage.
Of the two I prefer the survivability, but the percentage should be somewhat lower.

well our rts thread fell off the map. is patches-scrolls a reliable place to get patches? i feel like giving soupcan:fa another whirl now that my computer can probably handle it without crawling to a near halt

Thank g*d id removed the bug that caused bunny hgoping to be a thing, right?
Because bugs are always the bane of existance and the remote possibility that they might add something that was not intended becasue nobody thaught about it before, is just some crazy lunatic speak…

I saw someone say Starcraft 2 isn't an RTS (Real-Time Strategy) it's an RTT (Real-Time Tactics).

Is this something that the majority agree on? What is the difference? How major is this difference that a distinction is actually necessary?

Stopped playing shooters and fighting games too

It's the current year, I can't believe they still leave bugs like rocket jumping and combos in games

Sure but the counter-argument is just keep all bugs and force players to always find ways around it. Further enforcing the meme "It's not a bug, it's a feature" every time something is obviously not working as intended.

A balance needs to be found. Just because people found a way to make it work doesn't mean it should work.

Tfw can't make fun custom campaigns in SC2 like you could with Brood War.

I spent more time doing that than actually playing the game. Made a whole campaign where me and my sister were portrayed as Alan Schezar and Kerrigan and we took down an evil Terran terrorist group that was creating super alien death robots (Dragoons with suped up shields that required you to remove crystals from beacons to make vulnerable) and monstrous Kerrigan clones (infested Kerrigans you had to beat by rescuing missile turrets for their detection ability.)

Shit was rad. Me and my sister even did shit tier autistic voice acting for the cutscenes.

If they remade the Brood War Campaign editor, with the same interface, but left in things like giving custom weapons and abilities to any unit, I would be so fucking happy on the pants.

The new Map Editor is too fucking complex for my limited amount of giving a shit.

Upload it for us to play user

I've thought about doing something like that. But the original campaigns were made years and years ago, back in BW's prime.

Been through like 6 computers since then.

Even if I wanted to remake it my sister already moved up to Jew York.

I would love to sit down and learn how to do the fucking SC2 map editor but it's retardedly convoluted.

Closest thing I got to a working campaign mission was "bring X character to Y spot and kill Z while not letting X die."

Was like you as a civilian escaping a big city during a protoss attack. I had planned for you to be able to find an abandoned Goliath and hop in to fight some zealots and an immortal. But could never figure the shit out.

It's not fun. I only felt stress when I played this shitty game.

It sucks because the game is badly designed.
Some of the things that made Broodwar so dynamic were the obnoxiously hard-to-keep-up production that wasn't automated, the obnoxious pathing and the limitations of unit movement.
Keeping up the production was hard, defending was hard so you were better spreading around to ensure that you could keep fighting, you could only control only so many units per control group, there was no all-move and the way your units moved around made sure that you'd better position them around carefully otherwise you'd screw yourself. The terrain also gave different effects so you could use it to your advantage (and your opponent against you), and so on.
This created a beautiful accident where the game was dynamic, there were various skirmishes during the game and it could unfold and you had to attack and defend at the same time - it was frantic for the player and exciting for the viewer.
The game was also an unbalanced mess despite the early balance-patches, but it was so fun that map-makers took upon their hands to balance the game through their craft and they almost reached perfection (which is why Fighting Spirit is in the map pool for almost every brood-war tournament since it was released) and that's why a game that has bullshit such as Reavers can be played competitively.
The trade-off was it required high-mechanical skill (precision, APM) to pull your strategy, and a screw up in that department could throw off your advantage and people did mess up, constantly, so the game only ended when it became obviously that you couldn't win anymore.
Meanwhile in SC2 controlling massive armies is absurdly easy, defending is absurdly easy (position the right unit[s] in vulnerable spot A before the timing for the opponents harass units hit your base] until you have a big army to overwhelm your opponent. They tried to make the games more dynamic by increasing the number of units available to early-game harass, changing the economy and making maps smaller but it still didn't meant shit (but the fanboys won't admit it, obviously) - it only made the same stale thing happen faster.
No, it's balanced to the point of being boring. The players will cry saying their race is weak but truth is that maybe with the exception of Adept and Oracle harass (Protoss early-game) everything is pretty much balanced and even then the Protoss isn't even that bad if you make some early anti-air/high-dps units (Cyclone/Marines/Queens). The new patch will make things even more balanced.
Re-do pathing so it's closer to brood-war (but less obnoxious), impose artificial limits on how big unit groupings can be. Rengineer units so that no unit overlaps in purpose (like creating two units out of the Medivac, and killing either the Adepts or the Zealots because they do the same job).
Basically, fire David Kim and have the guts to re-engineer the bad parts of the game that are part of the core-design that him and Dustin Browder won't change because it's part of their [bad] vision for the game. The game is fundamentally flawed and the core design needs to be rebuilt in order for it to become fun.
Hell no, they just dominate RTS and derivated games because it's their game. Just like Yoropoors are good at Tactic Shootans, Yankees and Ruskies are good at Arena Shootans, Japs good at fightan.

Kinda.
Starcraft 2 is a game where what matters the most is your build-order and production. In SC2 there's only two the strategies: you either maximize and optimize your resources to built the biggest army blob you can, that can counter what's the army composition of your opponent [that you imagine they'll do based on their opener] or you cheese them early to beat them if they plan to play the standard game (strategy 1). It's macro games 90% of the time - any tactic you apply is based on accomplishing the two main strategies above and it all comes at different applications or harassment. Your micro it's either to maximize harassment or minimize harassment to your worker lines.
Build orders and production in Starcraft Broodwar allowed you to support your strategy while you fought your way to impose it on your enemy.
Meanwhile in SC2 you tech until you get two huge army blobs and have they clash - there's no terrain advantage other than bottlenecks and the person who gets the best of the harass early in the game or a worker lead likely wins the game. People keep playing either because they're in the dark that they're behind or in the faint hope that somehow their opponent will screw up and they may catch up and equalize things so they can, with some luck, build a big blob and clash them - when a player knows for a fact that they're far behind (like a failed opening harass) they just gg out of the game because most of the time there's no hope.
The fact that some guys like Mvp, MMA, MC and Taeja could win games they were behind made people praise them as almost Gods.
Beacause all this, the game is fucking boring and stressful because if you slip on your production you're likely doomed.

Koreans have the fraction of population of others, and yet dominate

SC2
OW
HotS
LoL
Tekken
KoF
SF

Finished top 4 in hearthstone and DOTA2 (despite having literally one team)

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It's because of the infrastructure. Imagine having one big city with high-speed internet for low prices, widespread access to computers at home and in internet cafes and efficient mass-transit and the overwhelming majority of the country population? That's the Seoul Metro-Area and to a lesser scale Bussan (Pusan?). Pretty much you have ideal practice conditions (low latency) and many practice partners as well it's ease to set up tournaments and exchange information.
The fuck you are smoking? While you have guys like Knee and JDCR in korea, the majority of the best players Tekken are in Japan.
Same with SF, you have Infiltration and to a Lesser extent Poongko, but the majority of the best players are in Japan.
KoF is pretty spread-out, you have Japs, Koreans, Mexicans, Chileans and Chinese as strong scenes. The Chinese are probably the strongest if they when they pick-up a game, Xiao Hai is widely acknowledged as the god of Kof98/2k2. Hell, even the US produced a world-class player (Reynald, Evo 2013 champion) and KoF is not even popular in America.

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oh and koreans dominated tekken tournament in toushinsai too

Because it is a piece of fucking shit gookclick. You win battles by having higher apm instead of outthinking your opponent. Play pic related instead and stop wasting your time.

Yes, thank god they removed the ability to turn in mid air and build up infinte speed by bunnyhopping.

Carmack's Quake bunnyhopping is one of the rare cases of an unintended bug turned into an actual endorsed gameplay feature from Quake 2 and fowards, he even introduced an invisible max speed in mid air for Q3A because of it, although it's so high you probably won't ever notice or reach it.

The reason it was left in? It makes gameplay faster. Which in turn increases player skill ceiling for two of the most important, but sadly lost, facets of FPS shooters which are Movement and Positioning.

SC gookclick doesn't really hold any ground for a comparison to this, because other games that were streamlined ended up playing better and have more depth than their predecesors, such as SupCom, so it's probably SC2 failing to understand the basics of what made Brood War great in the first place (Like unit positioning and chokepoint defense mattering, ramps and narrow passageways detterring enemy forces and deathballs effectively, balance that was way over the top in the right ways for all factions and their intended roles, tactical fights being not only fast but also requiring for good unit composition and positioning. I'm no expert but those should be near the core of the issue) instead of just being a problem with the streamlining. Unless people equate that those things can't be kept along with streamlining to remove unneeded APMs, which i find patently retarded unless you're in it for the esports faggotry. The gooks will just find other things to do anyways, once they notice they don't have to babysit and micromanage literally every single unit individually like a glorified AI on steroids.

Apples and oranges, I like both. Supcom is more strategic, starcraft is more mechanical.

Starcraft 2 is bad, but not because it puts more emphasis on mechanical than strategic skill, I dislike the bland as hell map design where different maps are functionally different arrangements of the same few general base ideas, lack of transient points of interest to drive map control (like wrecks in supcom, gold expo kind of fits this, but not quite) and horrible philosophy behind faction balance. (Terran should be easy, zerg should be hard, protoss should be weird)
Supcom2 wasn't shit because starcraft exists. The RTS genre committed suicide under unanimous decision.

Try co-op.

Also pretty much this.
You can also look up on youtube a lot more stuff about comparing SC2 and BW. SC2 managed to fuck up relatively simply stuff like tank turrets, instead of being pointed where they shoot last, they always moved in one direction making statter stepping with them useless.

can you tell me why its not a strategy ?

why is everyone spouting this meme ?
does strategy mean something else nowadays ?

That's it? Seems low, especially for a two handed game.