Things you dislike in RPGs

Shitty localizations

This shit here kills me. I get that it takes time to code different solutions, but please, for the love of God, if I need to convince the goblin to tell me the code to open the door, give me a better clue than "he likes shiny things" when I need to give him one specific gem from that one specific NPC in that one specific place that was never important for one second up until now.

Let me threaten him for the code. Let me go invisible and lockpick the door. Put a secret passage that bypasses this fuckstick. Let me grab the fucking gypsy goblin and beat the fucking door down with him for putting me through this horseshit. I don't care. I'll take the alignment hit. I don't care if the entire goblin nation comes after me for violating the sanctity of The Door. There's nothing more frustrating than your progress coming to a screeching halt because your character, who has been spending the past week fighting demons and hellspawn, can't get past a fucking wooden door.

that reminds me

They're not terribly difficult to bounce back from, but fuck me are they annoying. Especially when every enemy in a dungeon has one and uses it liberally.

Even worse

The otherwise great Arx Fatalis was guilty of this. There was a group of crystals you had to gather later in the game to open a doorway near the end of the game with no indication that you'd need them later on. When you finally got to the door, cue panic as you try to remember where the fuck those crystals were.

The best part? A few were enemy drops, and God help you if one of them ran away when low on health since monsters can leave the area.

I have no idea what the fuck the devs were thinking.

Really long dungeons that look exactly the same and have you fight the same enemies over and over again.

The whole "character skill" nonsense, takes almost no thinking or mechanical skill whatsoever.

Lack of originality, and I don't mean HERE'S SOME BULLSHIT GIMMICK originality.

I want games where you can gain experience in fighting specific types of enemies, which improves your ability to quickly dispatch and more effectively loot enemies. Killed a shit-ton of rats? Well this experience helps when fighting GigaNiggaRat. It's not fucking hard to code shit like this.

Character skill? What exactly is this referring to?

Shitty click-and-wait-to-move controls.

D&D-style dice roll chance for failure bullshit for stuff that has no business having a chance to fail.

Instanced battles.
Classic, but such a shitty thing, the whole game stops for a little fight that happens in it's own space-time.
Usually, any kind of turn based game does this, but sometimes games with action combat do that too(valhalla knights) or a game has turns without instancing it's battles(elona)

Hey now Gauntlet Legends worked pretty well in real time.

dark legacy is better, but neither are RPGs. They're more like Diablo but not grindy. and with proper level design and fun mechanics. Hack and slash games.

Shit like Morrowind where you only have a chance to hit instead of just hitting them every time. The only people who like that are people who suck at video games.

Probably skills.

this

Depends on the port really. The GCN port had game-ruining levels of bugs while the PS2 port had no way to turn off items. Maybe the Xbox port was the best.

Don't be silly they're action RPGs. Hack and slash is not a genre.

yes, that shit is very artificial. The defense is hilarious too. "You just don't have any imagination!" nigger I don't need imagination to see me two inches from my target, my arm swinging and my weapon contacting them, just to be told by a computer saying "well ackchually"

hack and slash describes what you do pretty well. I don't see how they are acion rpgs. The Xbox version is also absolutely excellent thanks to not requiring a multi-tap and having great hardware for solid performance, as well as 480p visuals.

And it never stops happening.

Chance to miss has no fucking business being in a real-time action game period.

Fuck I hated Fallout 4's weapons. Having the weapon mods was just a lazy way to limit the weapon count to a handful.

Even unmodded New Vegas has a huge amount of weapons

diablo as a franchise is so fucking bad, I have no idea how anyone likes it. The first game had a nice atmosphere but the game play is boring as fuck. The entire style of game is pretty much the most blatant skinner box around.

wars have been fought over less

Random encounters, stats of any kind, and turn based combat.

Puzzles with random encounters. Maze/Puzzles with screen transitions (and random encounters). I always get disoriented by fucking encounters and the puzzles just feel like padding.

thats part of the reason why i love Chrono Trigger so much

Oh you opened that arbitrary chest? Sorry, can't make best weapon now

I mean, the actual diablo games were'n so bad, they had this weird point and click to walk and attack and aim attacks, but it was still action, just with a shitty interface, you could attack the air in front of you and had to actually connect your strikes to hit the enemies, same goes for the enemies themselves. But shit went way south when games adopted that interface AND targeting/autoattack mechanics. Then any aspect of action was removed since you can't actively dodge, aim, and do any other shit directly.

...

I didn't play fallout 4

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply with these but Fallout 1 and 2 are just as fucking shit as the FPS games.

You do know that weapon damages are stats right?

Zelda isn't an RPG you know.

I'm making my own action RPG and I can second that the 'combat system' of typical western RPGs is absolute dogshit. Diablo clones especially, where the extent of skill required is just spamming moves.

I'm trying to design my combat system with cues taken from the n64 Zeldas and a few of the aspects of the Souls games.

- Weapon types: short-blade, long-blade, two-hander, rapier/shortlance, axe, spear, polearm, flail (blunt weapons would be a subset of the closest type- ie: mace would fall under axes, warhammers would fall under two-handers)
- Attack types: Standard, Power, Charge (a forward rush)
- Blocking: Holding a shield up negates all incoming damage, diverting it to Stamina damage
- Parrying: Can only be done without a shield. When parrying an attack at the right time, the player diverts damage to Stamina
- Bash: Either a shield bash, pommel hit, or a kick (depending on the weapons held). Causes stamina damage and potentially causes a stumble if enemy was not blocking.
- Dodges: Forward does a roll, sideways does a duck/side-step, backwards is a short hop back similar to hitting the roll button when standing still in DaS.

Stamina would work somewhat similar to how it does in Souls game but with a larger pool. The stamina bar wouldn't show the value linearily, but from a curve. ie: 30% would show as 1/10th of the stamina bar. If Stamina goes below 30% or so, the character would become 'tired', making movement slower similar to Dragon's Dogma. If the character actually reached 0 Stamina, they would either fall to their knees, or if reached 0 Stamina from an incoming attack, would collapse and potentially be knocked backwards.

I guess that's all I have right now. But I'd really like to make a combat system that's more interesting than spamming shit. Criticism very welcome.

Random encounters are nice if they don't stop the game in it's tracks.
Stats are fine, it's just better if you don't go through the game grinding and getting stronger and stronger in order to advance. It's great when your just your gear affects your stats so you can do different builds and shit whitout just getting stronger.
Turn based shit needs to go unless the whole rest of of the game is not in real time. Walking around and interacting with stuff in real time to switch over to turn based just when the meaningful action is supposed to take place is retarded as fuck.

Even zelda has stats like weapon damage, player and enemy health, etc.

Way too many forced dialogues with npcs I don't' give a fuck about
I'm talking about you Digimon Re:Digitize

That would be the point user.

Random encounters never don't disrupt the flow. They interrupt my exploration and make an otherwise rewarding dungeon and tedious grind.

i remember you, its good youre still working on it

I'll give actual rebuttal if you give an actual argument.

Hating everything doesn't mean that you don't have shit taste.

Sounds good from your description.
The combat in the 3D Zeldas and the Souls games are solid as fuck.

I was thinking more of stumbling on bandits or huge monsters while traveling from place A to place B, stuff like dungeons should have all it's shit laid out as soon as you enter it, random or scripted. Large enemy groups spawning or respawning in places of the dungeon you already explored is fucking cancer.

Always nice to see other devs. I'm making a turn based RPG because realtime is effort and scary. Was particularly why I made this topic and occasionally a few others as I gather some public thoughts. Asking what people don't like seems successful here. Was looking into potential player types that don't typically play RPGs and/or don't like a lot of the current market.

Leveling and open worlds. They are features that if used in the right context can be good (like Morrowind to some extent) but they're usually handled terribly. Leveling should not just be increasing the numbers of you and all the enemies you fight, it should be about carving out your build or feeling like an actual god after starting as a peasant (like Morrowind).

And open worlds are shit unless they provide a large number of different ways to establish your character in. I might as well use Morrowind again since it did this pretty well. There are a number of different factions in it and you are expected to participate in these mutually exclusive factions even while doing the main quest. You can just ignore everything and run around being an alchemist if you want, but most non Bethesda open worlds end up being full of useless filler where every town is full of fetch quests that have you go mindlessly kill enemies to get some meaningless reward. They don't utilize the open world in a way that encourages genuine exploration of its various factions or ways to establish yourself in them, it's just a shitty theme park. A lot of the time there's even shit like quest markers too which completely remove any depth from the exploration since you can ignore the world itself in favor of staring at the shiny quest dorito and holding W. And if you just turn the quest marker off in these games you can't get anywhere because the NPCs don't describe the location of where they tell you to go since the designers didn't think to account for that.

tl;dr Bethesda is shit and the only companies that are shittier are the ones that try to copy them and fail miserably.

Bosses who are immune to status ailments. I swear, the only game where I can inflict status ailments on bosses is Dragonfable

You don't want to just mash "a" to get through a fight?
Don't worry. We've added a little rythm mini fighting game to the combat that forces you to use strategy… and then reinput that same strategy over and over and over again.
That's sure to make your random encounters less tedious. Right? right?

Fallout 1 and 2 encompass all of the worst changes that happened to Western PC RPGs when people started making the transition to isometric perspective.

-terrible click-to-move interfaces
-overlong animations for everything that you have to wait on and only serve to make the tedious interface even more irritating
-D&D chance-to-fail crap for fucking everything

I don't care if you agree or disagree with me, but if you want me to elaborate, here I go.
I just think it's stupid to have a game that has you doing all kinds of shit in real time, suddenly not be realtime just for the battles, the parts where action would be most vital.
Ig uess there was a time where this was due to hardware limitations, but not anymore.
Games like pokemon, where the characters doing the walking and the fighting are different, are still acceptable, but activelly controlling a swordsman running around, exploring, opening chests and shit then stumbling upon an enemy just to switch to a lame ass "order your swordman to attack and hope he doesn't die when the enemy attacks" combat is garbage.
Games like classic fallouts had a nice tactical positioning aspect to the turn based combat, it made it a little better, but still, freely controlling the character in real time just to get this freedom and action taken away from you when it should matter the most doesn't appeal to me.

The frequency of random battles. Most modern JRPGs have enemy parties appear on the map, but some still use the old system of infinite random encounters after x steps. Why can't more games copy Zeboyd's system of limited encounters?

Ever play this game?

(it's freeware now btw)

The same old generic fantasy/sci fi setting. Heavily rng-dependant combat.

Do RPGs really even need RNG?

No, nothing needs rng based combat.

What about randomized loot?

I haven't. Any particular points to take note of? I can probably check it out sometime if there's some insight to be had.

loot isn't combat but it still sucks

Randomized loot is fucking shit, devs should hand place everything in a way that is internally consistent and good for gameplay.

Diablo 2 style loot systems are cancer and do nothing other than get retards addicted to playing the game to see marginal number increases.

Only how to make a really satisfying top-down turn-based RPG that fine-tunes the Ultima formula.

I'll be more blunt though, I consider it one of the last really good overhead Western RPGs before the plague of isometric perspective de-emphasized game design across the board in favor of storytelling.

i know some gust games do

Really? I don't mind random loot so long as i'm not depended on it. If I have to get a good item, but that item has a 5% chance of dropping, then i'm screwed. Also, grinding.

If you MUST make it turn based, I can only recommend having a rogue/mistery dungeon combat. It beats instanced battles any day.
Whatever you do, NO RANDOM ENCOUNTERS.
You can still make a good game with a boring classic Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest-esque combat, it's just that action combat is more fun.

Randomized Loot can work, it just needs to be balanced and the process to get the loot needs to be fun on it's own, not only a boring way to try and get the loot.

But what purpose does it serve? It just makes it so weapon stats and enemy stats become impossible to tightly balanced which makes for boring gameplay. It does nothing other than provide a carrot on a stick for the dumbasses that actually fall for that kind of thing. And it severely limits builds because if you want to get a specific item for your build you have to grind for it, and if there's no builds in an RPG then it's a shit RPG with zero justification for having those stats in the first place.

I much prefer something like how the souls games do it where every weapon and armor is equally viable but still distinct from one another. A certain build will be made around one weapon but not another which differentiates characters and encourages you to make creative builds rather than just using whatever weapon has the biggest numbers.

One of the many sins of your average JRPG.

Top tier taste.

I keep thinking of rogues. My thoughts were if you knew what enemy dropped specified item(s), then you would keep farming those enemies until you had a boat full of them.

So you don't like RPGs then?

You don't craft the Zodiac Spear but yes that was bullshit. Glad they changed that for ZJS.

what the fuck is this bullshit

Any system that forbids you from using certain mechanics. In other words, the Judge System in FFTA-2 can eat a dick (At least there's ways to get around the Laws in the GBA game)

Even worse if they only give you one fucking try.

...

Exactly.

If I talk to an NPC, it should be one conversation and done or I will check every fucking NPC to see if they have something else to say, god forbid offer something or advance the storyline. Misables as well. Basically, don't trigger my situational autism. I never finished Dark Could 2 and it can burn in hell.

FF2 is the worst offender at this. The first two levels or so of any status spell is a complete waste. That's 200+ castings.

Worse offender:

I'm finding it really difficult to come up with something that I really hate from JRPGs outside of examples from the very early experimental days.

That's why they gave you Minh for such a long time. They should have made magic leveling more like the weapons though.

Usually just when there's not much interesting to do and you're just advancing the plot. Xenogears was bad at this in my opinion almost a predecessor to FFXIII in the sense that you just move from area to area and there's little to no downtime or interesting areas to explore.

I liked running around in FFIX as Steiner and autistically challenging people to card games, or rifling through people's shit for medals in DQ. RPG's even simple lie Jrpg's should at least give you some opportunity to RP.

The idea in some of those games is to differentiate from heat of the moment and all of the time in the world. It is also needed in party-based games like dungeon crawlers.

Diablo 2 is full of fixing the wrong problems. It had teleportation scrolls to make up for the small inventory space. It has belts that holds potions that you have to spam. It had a skill tree to add variety to the restrictive class system.

You can do it in Lisa too.

I've found the best solutions to the status effect problem is to a) make status effects to be exclusively a native effect on certain weapons, b) make status effect magic a buff that you cast (or otherwise apply) onto your attack, or c) status effects are bonus secondary effects on attack spells. The last one is my absolute favorite way to do it but I'm also rather fond of elemental and status weapons.

Random battles. Fuck them all to death. The best I will do is a system like Zelda II where stepping on certain tiles will trigger enemies to appear and, if you bump them, you get taken to a battle, but other than that they can fuck right off. Legend of Legacy did battles right. Even FFXIII got this right, even if the battles for the first half of the game were fucking pointless since they offered fuck all items and no XP.

You can't inflict fear on Satan :^)

Hell, FF2 has a lot of problems. I like the leveling system but why can't I keep the low level spells?

Oh wait..I got another one. To recruit a character to join your city, you have to get a certain amount of profit while you are tending to said character's shop…and that quest takes 8 hours of game time and the customers are always random (and includes a certain cheapskate weed)

I've thought of one. It's not so much something I hate as it is a disappointment. It's when monsters are regarded as just monsters by the battle system even when the story or lore proves them to be something more.
Let me use the example from FFXII about Cactites. They are low level monsters and are non-aggressive unless attacked. As you play through the game it be comes clear that they aren't just mindless monsters and they even have a rudimentary society. In one sidequest you even reunite Dran, a prodigal Cactoid, with his family and later on in a different sidequest he (presumably) joins you on you fishing outings. But you can still just slaughter random Cactites on the field, even after all that.
Why can't you befriend the entire Cactite race and make the game cease to regard them as enemies but instead NPCs?

The cockatrices are another example in the same game. Once you get the feather of the flock why can't communicate with the wild cockatrice class of monsters. Even if you couldn't pacify them it would be nice to hear them curse at you in Cockney when they attack you. Not to mention being able to hear the insane ramblings of the chimeras.

I didn't like Fallout 2 either.

This fucking shit right here
You have all these status ailments and the only thing you can do is sic them on cannon fodder that dies in one or two attacks. You try to use them on bosses and they're fucking immune.

They might as well not fucking exist if they're this useless

When it takes fucking hours for the game to really start. Why does japan love extended tutorial zones?

quality>resolution

In some older games they were not easy at all to bounce back from. For example Wizardry could mean entire party death, which would be permanent if your new party didn't recover them back to town.

You'll be glad to know that Vogel's going back to topdown after he remakes Geneforge

...

Even worse, when a game doesn't start until the final chapter.

cinematics

That most JRPGs have next-to-nothing in the way of customization. The most variance you'll get is what gear to use, and even then the difference is usually just numbers. You can't deviate from the intended story, you can't play a different character than the 90-pound metrosexual who's destined to save the world and whine like a little bitch about it the entire way. Where does the role playing part even come in? If you're gonna be that loose with the definition, then it applies to every game ever made.

Also,

Dragon Quest I-IV are the best JRPG's ever made aside from a bit too much Grinding in 1 and 2. Every JRPG after Dragon Quest IV has been a slow downhill. JRPG's live or die by how comfy it is to grind. Good music helps.
Ni no Kuni was underrated
These tend to be good for game play reasons if they are designed right. They don't need to relay on story so the less story the better.

this,
&most Western RPG's are just poz'd uninspired rehashed versions of JRR Tolkien or shitty uninspired dystopian Science fiction. Weather medieval or futuristic Western RPGs, the vaginas always somehow seem like they are harry and smell like fish.

Zelda 2 could be called an early Action RPG tbh. It was like the first Metroidvania. It beat Castlevania II to shelves almost by an entire year.

never ever
tumblr tale is also indipixelshitz

I'd go to western RPGS but modern ones have stupid gay shit.
at least I'll always have Daggerfall and Ultima 8

I lved Earthbound and all but I think it was a mistake. I'm sick of the "feels" hipster bullshit it generated in the west and the shitty spiritual sequels that came inspired by it.

A character having a "default outfit" that doesn't change when you equip them with a different armor

It's because they don't want players to cheese the fight. There's little point to having a hard final boss when the player can just inflict a cheese status ailment and take him out in just a few turns

Then make the status ailments less effective or do something different. Just cutting them from the equation altogether is lazy design and arbitrarily punishes you if you have characters that rely on them.

That infuriating JRPG trope where there is a bad guy character that you fight over and over again at certain points in the story and always escapes and runs away after the battle until you are near the end of the game.

Another JRPG classic:
After starting the game for the first time it literally takes a fucking hour before you gain FULL control of your character and can start playing without being interrupted by story/tutorials/infodumps.

GO AND DO A THING FOR US IN ANOTHER TOWN
5 minutes later

YOU
WILL
NEVER
GUESS
WHAT
HAPPENED

THIS

not gay
vs
supper gay
:^)

I want to be a axe wielding man with a bear that goes on, fights to rule the lands and impregnate his loli waifu.

Nice pic!!!
That's a good movie!!!

Yeah it was 4 hours well spend.

Ending was a bit sappy though.

Recolors. Jesus Christ I hate recolors. I really wanted to play persona 3 to check out the waifu robot but I couldn't cycling take it. I dropped that trash and I gave nocturne a shot. Best decision I could have made.

EXCESSIVE ENEMY ENCOUNTER RATE
And shit like only makes it even worse
MULTIPLE DIALOGUE CHOICES THAT DON'T FUCKING MATTER

Fucking this too

Undertale was made in Game maker dipshit

FF2 was the worst offender in a whole lot of things

*Fucking
That's what I get for shitposting from the toilet

And Avernum.

RPGs are trash games for the same kind of people that watch anime.

Can't play real games, so play RPGs. Can't appreciate real film, so watch anime.

Ugly art and forgettable/outright bad music that you're forced to listen to regularly. If the waifus are ugly and the battle theme isn't catchy then I'm extremely unlikely to get into it. Thankfully it's usually just typical Western garbage with shit gameplay that makes these mistakes in the first place. Weebshit hasn't been letting me down on any front lately, really.

Just read a book, nigger.

pic related

Stat progression instead of stat distribution. Fuck that shit, I hate it. Also the reason why I barely play JRPGs anymore.

Nice trips, but can you clarify just a bit? Are you referring to when all stats go up via mathy curve stuff contrasted to when the player is left to allocate stat progress themselves throughout levels?

Looting. It never makes any sense

yes, the game ups your stats X amount (depending on what class your character is) instead of allowing you to manually assign them.

what makes you think earthbound in particular is responsible for that?

Personally i prefer stat progression as it makes the characters feel a bit more unique.

I don't see how that would be the case since you wouldn't be able to specialize a character's stats in a way different from everyone else. In a good system the game will encourage you to make each of the characters unique and you decide how exactly that will happen, which is much better than it just automatically giving tiny stat bonuses to everyone upon leveling up.

Also if you don't want the player to have any control of this at all then what is the point of leveling up in the first place? All it does is fuck with the balance of the game. The purpose of leveling up in tabletop RPGs is because character creation is already an overcomplicated nightmare so they spread much of it out over the course of the entire game. Experience and leveling up serve no purpose if the player isn't allowed to control them and anything that doesn't serve a purpose in a game should be purged. This is what differentiates Todd Howard from Team Ico, the ability to make sure that every element of a game serves a distinct purpose rather than shoving mechanics in there just because other games do it.

The things I truly hate about RPGS:

1) Unwinnable Battles
2) "Killing" off your favorite dragons (i.e., Lunar Silver Star, Lunar Silver Star Harmony, Brave Story New Traveler)
3) Most trusted NPC or (temporary playable member) turns out to be the main antagonist of the ENTIRE GAME.
4) Godawful Voice Acting in English Dubs of some RPG Games
5) "If you kill the antagonist, you will turn out just like him!" "Anyone of you can become the villain!" (i.e. Brave Story New Traveler)

These are the Top 5 I HATE in RPG Games.

In no particular order:

I was more thinking about story driven games were their stats should somewhat reflect their personalty etc.
It always pissed me off that from except for FFIX all characters would end up with the same stats and abilities if you grinded long enough.

Aside from that it also prevents players from gimping their character, getting stuck on a boss and giving up because for some reason games with stat distribution rarely fucking include some sort of repec option in case you fuck up or want to try a different build without having to start all over again.

Some more:

5) Hero lets the antagonist live. Antagonist promptly murders someone or razes a village or some other evil shit.

mfw

I take it you never even played the game.

I remember evrey tumblr person being into Earthbound or Mother 3.
Also remember that gy who mades those 2deep4u Zelda comicsthat were just 2 frame rain with tumblr noses and noodly arms? his favorite game was Earthbound despite never playing it.

isnt that like blaming chairs for fat people existing?

what ever you need to tell yourself you hipster faggot.

I liked Earthbound but I do hold it largely for this shit. Same goes for FF. First seven games where Ok, but ever Japrap after 7 was just more and more shit.

responsible for*
every*

>it really doesn't do anything

I hate the little "J" they put in front of the "RPG" part sometimes.

...

>L O A D I N G T I M E S
Dropped FFX for this shit.

You're trying too hard to fit in, m8. Lisa is the opposite of undertale or any other tumblr meme game.

>pussyfistpacifist characters are unviable because certain characters need to be killed to progress and regular enemies have no intention of ever talking shit out and will just perforate you for free while you run away like a bitch, plus talking shit out will never earn as much XP (if any) as just whipping out your realistically modelled and painstakingly textured P90 and slaughtering everyone in the room

jrpg

wrpg

Oh god I hate this, fuck anything like that or "Acquire x% more gold." I used to use those kinds of skill every time without exception because they were obviously better than everything else provided I wasn't dying all the time, but at some point I realized they just make the game far more boring by limiting your build so I have personally decided to avoid them at all costs.

assumptions
pixelshitz wannabee earthbound for nihilist
pixelshitz wannabee earthbound for furfaggots and a shallow shmup gimmick
what?

Stat allocation. It bores me to tears, it's a total chore. Just have all that shit based on the class I choose, goddamn.

Anyone can look up minmax nonsense, I prefer games to be challenging and engaging in a way that can't be made completely irrelevant by a faq.

i hate turn based combat of any kind

That meme needs to burn in hell. Either custom classes with player allocated stats or no classes at all. I'd like to be creative with my build or just play the game please, none of this arbitrary bullshit that limits your playstyle without letting you get creative.

kys

That's a lot of buzzwords there friendo. Lisa, unlike some other game has actual indebt gameplay. Party management, shiton of battles, meaningful decisions that affect the story and gameplay, avoids most of the rpg cancer like grinding, rng drops etc. Look, if you're a cynical hipster elitist who doesn't allow himself to enjoy things, it's called depression, go see a doctor.

I was thinking of having a system for stat allocation where when you have no dedicated class, you just allocate points into stats to level them up based on however much points they need to be increased by 1 stat point. If you have a particular class, then you need just a little less points to level up that particular stat. An example being if I wanted to make this character a warrior, warriors get 1.2% out of each invested point for strength, but they get 0.8% per point for agility. You can try to make a hard hitting, fast moving warrior, but it'll cost more to invest into them. I think it helps suggest a way for builds and how players may want to allocate their stat focuses on a character, but still not restrict them to following it specifically.

But what purpose does that serve over just letting you allocate stats as you please with no strings attached? That would encourage a lot more experimentation. With your way if I wanted to build a person who was fast and strong I would be less efficient than another player who just went strong on his warrior or just went fast on a rogue. It actively discourages you from experimentation even though you are allowed to do it. It's like in garbage games like Diablo 2 sure there are a ton of different weapons you can use, but you're just going to use the one weapon that has more DPS than all your other weapons because there's no reason not to.

I think the ideal solution is like how DaS does it with the deprived class, everyone would start out as some scrawny fuck with nothing and the same base stats in everything and you make your own build as you play. If you want people to be able to start out more defined you just give them some starting points to allocate.

This is mostly for a turn based thing and each class was going to have some skills that add to the character's potential moveset. A Pokemon-esque "many options few at once" kind of thing. Class stats were intended to give a slight passive buff or nerf to the character's total stats for theme distinguishment, though some of your points and for the sake of cutting out a little extra complexity in programming, I might reconsider and cut that, opting for something simpler.
I should also probably mention I intend to let the player reallocate their stats at particular landmarks, and that where character stat exp is allocated isn't the only factor. They're also influenced by the character's species's base stats. I originally was going to let level be a part of calculating, but I rethink and wonder if maybe it'd be better to just increase how much exp they can put into stats.

Er, allocate stats and change class, I meant. I do want to allow space for experimentation and not make the player feel like they're constantly making permanent changes. This topic seems to suggest that a lot of people hate that, too.

Plenty of story driven RPGs allow you to build your character(s) the way you want and it doesn't get in the way of anything. I'm sorry, but I don't see any situation in which stat progression has any merit compared to manual stat distribution.

That just leads to a situation where everyone in the party ends up being the same. You would think the freedom would lead to you being able to make a diverse party but it always results in everyone equipping the same handful of weapons and using the same 5 or 6 skills in battle. Every. Damn. Time.
At minimum you have to have quasi-classes.

...

Anything involving travelling back and forth.

I hate when RPG's don't offer any decent character customization skills wise. Shit like characters forced into specific classes or classes that can only be played the way the dev intended or you will be useless. I want to come up with a unique class combination or skillset, subclass systems are generally the closest I get but I'd like to be able to go into more autistic detail when building characters.

Also fuck games where the majority of level ups are just +x to stat, that doesn't make the game more fun or engaging, it's nowhere near as satisfying as getting a new fuck you spell or skill.

speaking of which, i dont like mode7 world maps. or rather i dont like the viewing angle they tend to give you

Excessive party members always pisses me off. You can have your character and two other party members at a time. Here are ten party members that are going to join your team. Fucking why? Why are you wasting my time with eight extra assholes that are just going to sit around at my base for the whole game? The only way this would ever be worth a damn if there are sequences in the game where I need to use multiple teams or large scale battles where I can use them all. Sadly that shit hardly ever happens.

Forced party members piss me off even more. No, I don't want that asshole hanging around my base I want to fucking kill him. Let me. I'm looking at you G0-T0.

Randomized loot suck ass. I was trying to play through Icewind Dale and the random loot generation was just fucking me over. Random store loot is god awful too. Pretty much anything that would have me reload for different loot is a failure on the part of the developer.

Fights the player cannot win are also a big no. If I can win the fight, use a cut scene. Don't make me waste all my rare items on a fight I cannot win.

Railroading can irritate me a bit also. Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic for example, always irritated me I had to become a jedi. What if I don't want to be a damn jedi? I might want to stay a scoundrel instead and beat the game that way.

I don't mind stats and skills as long as they all justify their existence. The universal dump stat, IE charisma in New Vegas, irritates me. If there is no reason to max a stat out and create a build around the benefits it gives you then maybe that stat should just be removed.

I just want to die when I see this shit.

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RNG is one way to add variety.

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Play the last remnant

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But why not let the player make their own configuration of skills? Pokemon already almost has this since each can only know 4 moves but there are many moves that they are capable of knowing. I'd say just make them capable of knowing every move so you have to think more carefully about the 4 you choose (not in the context of Pokemon because that doesn't make sense but you know what I mean). And don't give me the "but that's hard to balance" crap, if devs are going to hire full time "game designers" then they should be able to handle this.

Give me an example of what you're talking about, because I think the game you must be referring to just does a shit job of naturally encouraging people to specialize (likely because it doesn't encourage teamwork at all).

Just because it was better than D3 doesn't mean it's a good game.

A shit way that should only be used if skill based variety is not an option like in tabletop games.

This

Maybe it's just that I'm well read and was fed a steady diet of the best Western literatures, but japs can't write a good story if their life depended on it.

user, that's exactly the type of game to hate

I'm starting to believe people acting as rash as you are legit retarded and don't socialize with people.

come on fam

And that's not to mention kino like Grave of the Fireflies or Battle Royale

Go read a book

The ones I posted might not be much compared to Brave New World but compared to western video games excluding Morrowind they might as well be.

Difficulty setting
Named PC

Jesus fucking christ. Go play Gothic 1 and 2.

fucking Bioware

Holy shit you made me spit out my drink in laughter, I know contrarian hipster Gothicfags shill it whenever someone brings up Morrowind but this just takes it to a whole new level.

We get it, Gothic is a better video game than Morrowind. It has better combat, more tightly designed areas, more varied quests, and better mechanical elements in its RPG mechanics.

But if you legitimately believe that Gothic has not only a good story but a better one than Morrowind you're absolutely kidding yourself. That shit is generic to the max with one of the most generic protagonists I've ever seen. Its art direction and setting are also decisively worse than those of Morrowind.

Please either consider suicide or educate yourself you gigantic faggot.

Morrowind's story is boring as fuck, it's like reading a book without any of the excitement or immersion.

At least with Gothic you've got a living, breathing world and that can immerse you instead of cardboard cut-out NPCs that don't do dick and just have large swaths of text to read.

...

What do books have that make them more exciting or immersive than talking to NPCs Morrowind? Either way you're just reading.

And Gothic does it worse because all of its story is told through (((cutscenes))) which is pretty much just text that doesn't want you to go at your own pace.

Also all of this is just its means of storytelling, not the story itself. Please tell me why you think "ARE U A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO FIGHT THE EVIL DRAGONZ" in generic fantasy setting #8594027 is a better story than Morrowind's take on canon, self fulfilling prophecies, and the stagnation of culture caused by blindly following one's cultural traditions.

...

I phrased that poorly because it's 3AM, I mean the loss of power and respect as a society that was once dominant civilization slowly becomes irrelevant relative to everyone else because they blindly follow their traditions and are afraid to change and adapt.

better?

I agree that morrowind has a more rich lore background, but the way it conveys it is abysmal.
user are you one of those fags that turns subtitles on in games, speed-reads the dialog, and then gets impatient while the NPCs are actually voicing said dialog?

I hate when you have to go into battles with super weak enemies you can 1hko.

I think Persona 3/4 and Conception series had parts where once you were high leveled enough, when you touched enemies on the overworld, they'd die and you'd get the 1xp they were worth.

Absolutely, are you not? If you aren't then you're probably an illiterate retard incapable of appreciating the written word because it's just too hard for you to understand. Here's some "cinematic" experiences you might be interested in:

They are all really "cinematic" and have that "cinematic" movie-like voice acting that you crave so much. Most of them even have an option to be played at "cinematic" framerates or have it by default (any of the console games there). Don't worry they're also really accessible and easy to understand so you won't have to think while watching them you can just turn your brain off and have fun bro!

Though if you're ever interested in learning to read you might want to play a real game some time. I think something that will help you adapt would be a voiced VN like Danganronpa because they have a legitimately good middle ground between full voice acting and full text. Every line is accompanied by a pose and a short voice quip that convey the emotion and voice of the character but let you read the line at your own pace. The quip is short enough so that a person who can read reasonably fast will finish the sentence and move on after the quip has finished which makes it a pretty ideal solution. I'd love to see more games adopt this method of dialogue

offense is the best defense

user the dialog system in Gothic1/2 is the same as Baldur's Gate1/2. I'm beginning to think you haven't actually played it and are just bitter that babby's first open-world console RPG isn't receiving the praise you think it deserves.

Is there a place selling gothic games cheaper than gog?

Yes.

G1 magnet:?xt=urn:btih:d780de9c08cb038e62d2cc96a89ecddd479f9145&dn=Gothic+1+%5BGoG%5D&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.leechers-paradise.org%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fzer0day.ch%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.com%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.coppersurfer.tk%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fexodus.desync.com%3A6969

G2 magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0a470d32672f5320c0eb91beae306f3297d2d6f9&dn=Gothic+2+Gold+Edition+%5BGoG%5D&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.leechers-paradise.org%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fzer0day.ch%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.com%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.coppersurfer.tk%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fexodus.desync.com%3A6969

thanks?

Trails in the Sky does this

user don't tell me you don't know how magnet links work.

I do, just that I wanted to buy. Thanks anyway, downloaded

I remember hearing about some Jrpg that if you ended up doing the bad ending you had to fight your own party or something? That ring any bells for anyone?

Probably not the game you're thinking but Langrassier 2 (sp?) had routes so you could fight people that would have been your allies otherwise

Ideally you'd get it from GoG, since you're getting a crippled exe with the Steam version that requires Steam to be running at the same time. Honestly though, PB hasn't made a game worth a shit in over a decade, and fuck giving JoWood your shekels, but if you really want to buy it, just pirate the gog version now and then buy it during the next gog sale.

Don't forget the latest SystemPack for G1 and G2. It's absolutely required (especially for G1 since it disables the repulsive 24fps lock).

forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/1340357-Release-Gothic-½-—-SystemPack-(ENG-DEU)

Okay thanks, guess I'll be busy over the weekend

Also consider getting the DX11 renderer for G2 if you've got a card that supports it, it provides both a hefty performance boost and significant visual upgrade with the new lighting and effect system and makes the game look pretty fantastic when you consider it's 13 years old.

forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/1466498-D3D11-Renderer-für-Gothic-2-(alpha)-19

Which systempack do I get for gothic 2?

Depends on if you install NoTR or not with the GoG installer. If you install it without NoTR, pick the 'classic' version, otherwise pick the latter. Night of the Raven is a sort of in-game expansion that also heavily re-balances the game and makes it significantly harder.

Gothic 1/2 are pretty difficult in their own right, where you've got skill based combat supported by your stats/items. The world is also non-leveled, so you can explore and find awesome shit early; and get your shitpussy gaped by high level shit you have no business fucking with. You start the game as an absolute nobody where even the weakest enemy is a deadly threat, and if you find yourself in too deep, it's often the best option to fuck off and regroup.

As for whether or not you should install NoTR, forget about that now and play through Gothic 1. If you beat it and feel like it was easy, install NoTR. If you feel the difficulty was just right, or even hard, just do classic G2, and save NoTR for a future playthrough once you know where everything is and how the world works.

NoTR is designed for veterans of the series, and the changes can be extremely overwhelming for new players.

thanks, see you in however many hours it takes to finish gothic

Hmmm

No idea why but the install button is greyed out when trying to install systempack

There's no shortage of unskilled fighters, but there is a shortage of magic ore to create imbued armor and weapons with, so that said fighters can go toe to toe with Orcs which are both more numerous and MUCH stronger than normal humans.
The Barrier doesn't keep people out, it keeps them in. It's like a big magical roach motel.
There's more than one mine, as it is the Valley of Mine(s) after all, and this magic ore is only found in the Valley of Mines. There are tons of mines on the mainland (we see those in Gothic 3), but they don't contain that magic ore. The reason for the Ore's magical properties (and Rune Magic) are explained as you progress through the game.

Thank god I thought I was in the minority here. If I wanted to play turn based I'de play table top instead.

Either you skipped the PlayerKit or you're not pointing it to the GoG install location, or both.

I have done both, looking at the thread looks like others had similar problems, with solution being to manually extract.

Every time I see people run into that, it's normally that they don't realize the default installation directories are wrong for the GoG version. I even just tested it just now to be sure, and it worked perfectly after I pointed them to the right location.

But hey, as long as you got it to work, that's all that matters. You're in for a wild fucking ride, expect to get fucked up while you figure everything out.

Thanks for recommending the systempack, looks a lot better

Oh okay, I'll keep playing then.

Wonder why they don't explain that in the video. Someone slightly more autistic than I would have just closed the game then and there.

Don't worry too much about the story for now, just try and put yourself in the shoes of the main character and let it unfold organically in-game as if you're just some asshole who got thrown into a terrifying mining/prison colony. If you give it a chance (and are able to adapt to the combat), I guarantee it'll hook you and you'll have a good time.

These gothic controls man, these controls.

Action and forward to pick up items?

Valdis story has you being able to inflict lots of status effects on bosses, as long as it's not something obvious like inflicting flame damage on a flame boss.

You aren't the minority you belong to a group called plebs.
see

Yeah, most veterans of the series recommend playing with just a keyboard (or a gamepad if that's your thing). It actually works really great once you get used to it, but coming from say, a Souls game or something it definitely takes some time to adjust.

Do note that your weapon stance and attacks change as you skill up with it, so it becomes more fluid and faster (also you can swing much faster by timing your swings than if you just mash it). Melee damage is (Strength + Weapon Damage - Enemy Armor)*0.10. Your weapon skill is also your chance to crit, and a crit is the same as above but without the *0.10 penalty.

Yea fuck off. Turn Based is fine in certain situations but in most situations it comes off as dated and pace breaking in RPG's. There's plenty of compromises and better mechanics that can be implemented so you doesn't have a glorified dice game with graphics.

What's wrong with turn-based, user? Divinity:OS, is an excellent example of a modern take on turn-based CRPGs that doesn't feel dated or pace breaking at all.

Just like dialog systems :^)

It only seems this way due to shit attention spans of modern players, such as yourself.

I can accomplish the same experience on a table with friends for a better experience. Also I find it boring. If you wanna enjoy it fine but there needs to be a static element in there for me to enjoy it to its full potential.

You're probably not reading me right. If the turn based system does something neat or interesting I usually don't mind. A good dialog system isn't just "click all options till their dark". Just like a good Turn Based system isn't "Hit his rock with your paper while number crunching" or something similar.

Keep goalshifting fam.

Honestly I'll shut up now because I admittedly haven't played a ton of games revolving around a "good" turn based system. That being said I don't usually play video games to do something I already do on a piece of paper.

It doesn't have to be boring. That's why I think D:OS does such a great job with it. Spells all have different AOE bubbles/cones, many leave ground effects and almost all can be combined with other spells for special status effects. It's complex enough that it really wouldn't work with real time, so instead of turn-based just needlessly slowing the battle down, it allows you to take a tactical and strategic approach to each fight.

Which would probably fall outside my catagory I'm talking about for turn based. If it can do something new or interesting with it that actually in some form relies on the video medium to add to the gameplay then it's probably fine.

I'm talking about the shit that's more reliant on numbers and forethought. Where you don't need to actually be playing a game to really accomplish the same goals. I play my vidya for the video part, if the game isn't somehow expressing the gameplay through the visual medium then I feel like I might as well not bother.

I can agree with that. Games like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale don't have much to offer if you've got a group of close friends to play D&D (or other variants) with.

If your only argument against turn-based systems is it feels dated, then you better give multiple examples of real time systems accomplishing the same thing but better.

see this

The ideas here are not necessarily bad but making its absence a deal breaker leads to a lot of consequences. Being able to play the game after finishing the main quest really hurt Skyrim and FO4 a lot.

I'll meet you half way. I don't want a purely turn-based system. Certain battles in FO1/2 are just a drag because you can't leave turn based mode until every hostile enemy in the map is dead. I rather have a real time system that turns turn-based when enemies are close.

Modern game design is more about culling ideas that are unpalatable to normalfags.

Everything is reliant on numbers dumbass.

Oh god I read that you can run through NPCs by just having your weapon drawn, and now I'm 40 minutes in with 3k gold, 1k ores, half a dozen amulets, and enough food to supply an army for a week.

I might just have to make a gothic thread

Yeah, normally if you fight someone that isn't hostile, you just knock them to the ground and can loot them or steal their weapon (they'll do the same thing to you), but action+up with your weapon drawn and you stab them in the chest and kill them while they're on the ground.

Do note that this can have some consequences if there are witnesses when it goes from a "friendly" brawl to a murder in one of the camps.

according to the q&a he's not redoing 4-6. So he's got Escape from Pit, Geneforge remaster then the new series in topdown

In shitty turn based it is :^)

No really though
It's not my only argument. But vidya is much more capable of different approaches to combat outside of a turn based system, and in many cases within the turn based system by adding something fresh or interesting. I shouldn't have to boot up a game to be a glorified calculator with pretty graphics though.

Re-read what I said in . If the base mechanic your game is running on doesn't actually need video visual stimulus in order to function then I fail to see why it should be worth my time on that format outside of muh graphics and a bit more speed.

Oh wait this wasn't a ruse post? What's the source on this?

Why can't you just play DMC or do you like open-world walking simulators?

A Q&a vogel did like a month ago

"In the meantime, be sure to browse my answers to see what I've already said. In particular, planned next 5 years: Avadon 3 remaster. [New series TBA] Geneforge 1 remaster."

And on the new series

"It was me, because I like it better. And now I'm tired of it. Our next all-new series will have a much more dead-on, Exile type perspective"

Across all rpgs the worst thing always was:
inventory management.
Witcher series, Dxhr, neverwinter nights, etc.
Its not fun, its just boring work the game forces you to finish when you're trying to play the game.

God I hope cp77 has good inventory system.

What?

...

Where was this Q&A?

reddit

I get the need for leveled zones, because scaling is boring, but RPG combat is so damn unsatisfying. There must be a better way to incorporate level gaps other than damage amounts.

My problem with Jeff is every time I read his blog or see him show up on a forum he appears to show no remorse whatsoever for the mistakes in his more recent games. Everything is some sort of "improvement" on past games to him (I guess it makes him feel better about himself). I honestly am not sure what to expect in a new "Exile-type" top-down RPG from him. Would it have the same sometimes dumbed-down-to-the-point-of-boring magic system of Avernum? Would it have the same fucking awful mandatory click-to-move interface as the Avadon games? Would it end up not being a giant world to explore at the player's discretion–fundamentally the original exile games' most important strength?

No clue, it's reached the point though where it'll probably be the last chance I give him though.

Mildly encouraging.

I think Witcher 3 does it pretty well.
Unarmored humans are can be chopped in half but armored ones have a lot more health.
Then again, none of that shit matters because aard allows you to kill them instantly.

This is the thing with RPGs though. You work your way to becoming stronger and more lethal, so the combat should reflect that and make things easier. Aard makes complete sense considering getting floored and stunned with a blast of kinetic energy leaves you massively vulnerable to a strike. However, it of course makes it too easy.

And another

I love JRPG's but here are a few.

Play SMT and I can figure how to get some self sustaining party of 4 by level 20 where MP is never an issue anymore and it's just now beating through the game waiting for the end just by keeping an eye out for the skills that are always busted.

Play most FF's and there's that god combination of skills that breaks everything, FF7 has like 50 of these thanks to it's materia.

DQMJ once you get the pheonix staff in the 2nd dungeon you can just keep fusing stonk mini boss island monsters or rank A monsters into what ever you want and it could take the final boss by end game because stat inheritance is bullshit
(Slime knight bois)

Feels like taking my time to figure out how to make the most out of my mechanics without resorting to grinding is overly rewarded and never simply expected of me.

Early on in FF7 there's an area where I mistook a ramp for just a random piece of metal on the floor and got stuck for ages because It never visually looked like a ramp.
there were a few other moment but this one erked me the most.

Remember getting stuck in Chrono cross for the same reason.

I remember in KH I missed a trinity mark in boogies lair since I always brought the guest member and couldn't get that one then, after that area's done you simply can't get it anymore, it's locked away from you.
At least it wasn't 3 of those dogs or I'd have lost my shit

Hate having to start a JRPG with a misable items guide besides me to avoid worrying about losing junk

Just like make the game harder to justify them, I shouldn't have to feel anything but the minor attack should be used on the basic enemies because I might reach a boss with low MP and no MP potions even for low quantity restores because they're a red chest luxury only for what ever reason
SMT did it well and made them a common drop to justify enemies usually having the same levels and stats as you since you could almost full restore every fight with the drops

I'mma drink this mega elixir and no one will stop me :)

Going from 20 at the beginning to 500 feels like a much more substantial progression then from going from what ever to suddenly being 2156138546 especially when most of it comes from overly power creeped weapons and not your stats

Probably looks like I hate the genre by reading this

I've never played Baldur's Gate but I did play Gothic and it sure falls for the full voice acting meme pretty hard. I'm not saying Gothic is a bad game, I actually like it more than Morrowind because it actually has decent gameplay. I'm merely saying that its writing and means of storytelling is decisively worse than Morrowind's.

wew

I guess I could agree that if we take out the gameplay and have the story/storytelling in a bubble, Morrowind does that that part better.

That's the only thing I've been arguing other than stuff like art direction and emphasis on political factions over just the linear main quest.

The point is that comparing these games is completely retarded. The reasons that Morrowind is well liked have absolutely nothing to do with the reasons why Gothic is well liked. Just because their surface elements of "open world fantasy RPG made around 2002" are similar doesn't mean they're remotely similar games. I don't play Morrowind for the jank combat, retarded gameplay mechanics, or the static world, I play it for muh lore, alien art direction, and the interesting setting. I don't play Gothic for the generic fantasy story, boring voiced protagonist, or vanilla art direction, I play it for the competently done combat, neat RPG mechanics, and the dynamic world.

The modern equivalent of this is shit like Dark Souls vs Skyrim vs vs Dragon's Dogma. Yes they all have similar surface elements but you will never convince someone who really likes one that they should like another more because the appeal of each of these games does not overlap at all. Modded Skyrim might be shit but you will never get fancy gwafix, tons of boring content, or survival mechanics out of the other two. Dragon's Dogma may be 25% finished but you won't get those crazy ass boss fights in Dark Souls or Skyrim. Dark Souls might have lockon meme combat but its tight level design and huge build variety will never be found in Skyrim or DD.

If its not turn based

THE FUCK I LIKE SKYRIM NOW
ether way you put it, it still sounds like liberal bullshit, because reality shows that its been abandoning traditions that leads to entropy. The statement in and of itself makes me even more sympathetic to the Nords, Although I generally agree with you in regards to needless exposition in video game. Generally the rule of thumb I live by with issue of "story in video games" is that it's only appropriate when it's either: 1) necessary for a gameplay mechanic, as in exposition for a riddle or a puzzle. 2) if not necessarily to completing the game play challenge then it's entirely optional and does not prohibit game play. Traditional RPG's and Adventure games if fallow both Rule 1 & 2 generally are better games. Myst is a good example of Rule 1. VN are not video games.

I think it's more a case of FFVII having next to no compelling challenge period. Even on a run-from-everything-but-bosses playthrough, it really only asks that the player know what they're doing on two occasions.

Leveled content

JRPGs have too much grind, and no real replayability typically speaking. They don't usually seem to have branching paths, and the game is such a huge grind anyway, it ain't really worth it.

WRPGs outside of things like TES, or Fallout if you count Fallout as a 'rpg', have the same problem of replayability, but it is somewhat balanced by having a tiny bit of branching paths, without the grindfest.
TES does pretty good, though, thanks to the whole 'make your own character' bit giving you the chance to RP a tad more. Though, even there, the quests are not more than the typical "DO X RANDOM PERSON" without much care who you are. Still, I dig the large number of quests, that way, since it gives you the chance to sort of pick-and-choose the ones you want to do. Skyrim was the absolute worst about this, though. YOu had no way of telling the Theives Guild off, for instance. Your character is automatically guilty by speaking to the wankers.

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer my RPGs for actual RP over some shitty story that typically isn't that good anyway. If I wanted that, honestly, I'd just play any number of standard action games. Fucking Halo has as good a story as a lot of this shit.

Fallout has shit replayability due to extreme lack of content and lack of meaningful character-building content for the shit that's even there.

Not to mention the terrible controls and time-consuming tedious animations for everything of course.

Curious what you think about modern Tales of games. Their new game+ options usually have pretty great replayability by fundamentally altering the way the games are played with stuff like combo-based experience gain for instance.

Well yeah, most of the love here for Morrowind comes from the fact that it was indeed babby's first open-world RPG that they first played on xbox. People love Gothic1/2 because they're actually good games :^). I can appreciate Morrowind's visual aesthetic, and the soundtrack is very memorable, but holy shit is the gameplay awful and the world is copy-pasted to hell and back. Imagine how much better it would have been if they had shrunk the map down to a third and hand-crafted everything, so you had what felt like a living, breathing world. I think Holla Forums as a whole gives Morrowind way too much slack, although there's always those people in MW threads that play it for the first time since their original xbox experience and are genuinely surprised that it doesn't even remotely live up to their memories.

I think DS and DD actually have significant overlap, not so much with Skyrim.

This is every turn-based JRPG, user. They can be great when you've got a top-tier soundtrack, good aesthetic, likeable characters, and don't grind-wall things too bad, but there's no real challenge involved.

True enough. Though, NV was pretty okay for some of that.
Problem was, the wasteland is exactly that: A fucking wasteland. There's not enough people to actually interact with in any meaningful way. A problem that Skyrim had as well, to be fair.

Haven't played it. Sounds rather shitty, honestly, if that's all they're changing. I mean, that just increases the god-awful JRPG grind. What a terrible idea.

I give Morrowind a pass because of the character customization and RP aspect.
If I want to play as the qt book-loving lizard with dreams of being a wizard, or the gruff imperial mercenary who just wants to get back home, I can.
Sort of, anyway. It's much easier than in other games I've seen, at least.

Check out the Etrian Odyssey series.

"Morality" meters that ultimately do nothing in the end. If I'm playing as the good guy, I expect the game to get harder, but the only punishment I really get is just less money which can be fixed easily with some extra grinding. And when you're evil, nothing really changes aside from cosmetics and suddenly you have a ton of money. The biggest crime is that there is no "treading the grey area" and you pretty much get punished if you stay neutral in these games as they expect you to be super good or super evil. With these stupid morality meters it makes it terrible to tell a story. Say a village a village is dying of a horrible disease except for one girl whose blood is actually the cure. To cure everyone in the village, she'd have to be drained of it all and you'd end up killing her. There are many good villagers and some bad ones including a murderer, but another villager is the literal Jesus incarnate The area had already been quarantined off and it's not likely it'd get out. No matter what your choice, your opportunity to think if you've done the right thing is stolen by whatever morality "ding" pops up.

Especially when enemies do dodge and back away. The whole "Miss" part is putting a hat on a hat. Either have one or the other and not both because then it gets redundant and stupid.

Unwinnable battles should never be a thing. I remember one game where I was doing so amazingly well during the tutorial battle, it wasn't going anywhere. I had been playing the battle for a literal hour because I was damn good at dodging and attacking at the right times. But then I made a stupid move, got killed, then suddenly THE GAME STARTS. Who the fuck thinks of this shit? If they do something like that, why not just have "If you beat the battle, you unlock a more difficult path bleh blah"

"Don't kill him or you'll sink to his level!"
OOOH! It's okay to kill all of his minions, many of whom were human by the way, who were most likely fighting against you out of fear and having to follow orders for that paycheck to feed their family, it's perfectly fine to kill them BUT NOT THE LITERAL EMBODIMENT OF EVIL. Holy fuck that's infuriating

Fair enough, I tend to neglect the potential for RP in games when reflecting upon them after the fact, but you're right on that one.

My last handheld was an Atomic Purple Gameboy Color, but I can emulate that. I notice there are a bunch of those games, if I was to play just one, what would be the best one?

Not really, just because the Empire is powerful doesn't mean they're something depicted as good. The reason the Dunmer became powerful in the first place was because they used to be an incredibly innovative people as the tribunal rose to power. They created new traditions and ideas as their culture grew and grew all while respecting older traditions, but they slowly became complacent as everyone settled down while the world around them continued to grow.

The Empire is an incredibly powerful entity but it is a bureaucratic mess and their one size fits all culture doesn't fit with many of the places they have legal control over, which is why their presence in Morrowind isn't felt much considering how powerful they are. The Dunmer resist the Empire because they'd rather stick with tradition than become a part of that mess, and even though they are less powerful because of it they're still better off than the alternative.

Noone here gives Morrowind a free pass, it gets shit on 24/7 even by people that really enjoy it like me. The only reason anyone likes it is because you can be whoever you want and explore an interesting setting that contains genuinely good writing which is almost nonexistent in games. Everyone constantly shits on the gameplay and poorly implemented RPG mechanics and if you don't think so then you clearly have never been to a TES thread. The only time people defend its gameplay is when it is compared to Shitrim because even though MW's mechanics are bad at least they're not as bad as some of Bethesda's more recent games.

I think people generally tend to say that Etrian Odyssey III was the best.

3 and 4 are about equal in my book

The USA
Jews
still liberal bullshit

Those are the people I'm talking about. Even accounting for personal tastes, I honestly don't see how anyone can compare the two and say Morrowind beats even vanilla Skyrim in the gameplay/combat department. Skyrim is heavily flawed and repetitive, no doubt, but it still has better core gameplay, and once mods come into play it's not even close.

Thanks anons.

I'll agree on combat and stealth, but the majority of your time spent in Morrowind involves neither. Skyrim is abysmal in the gameplay department because the exploration mechanics are retarded.

In Morrowind, when you go on a quest to find a cave, you are given instructions like "head north until you see the crooked tree then…" and in Skyrim it's "look towards the shiny quest dorito and hold W for 10 minutes"

The dialogue system in MW isn't good either but it's still much better than the mess that Skyrim has, and lastly Morrowind's magic system is far more interesting too. Sure it still has those retarded random number dice rolls, but at least you can eventually ignore those and do crazy shit like make a spell that lets you jump over mountains or summon armor + weapon + buff related stats to temporarily turn your mage into a warrior. It encourages genuine creativity as opposed to "point the fire spell at the enemy until it dies"

The "combat is the only form of gameplay" meme is stale as fuck and should be obliterated from existence.

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Nothing wrong with dedicated healer PCs. The real problem is when a game doesn't provide them an adequate mechanic to obtain experience points.

When were Jews a once great people whose culture has stagnated? They only became powerful relatively recently.

I never said cultural decay, I mean that they aren't keeping up with the times and innovating. Look at the "fall" of the British empire if you want a more accurate historical comparison, or even the Indian empire for an older one. Once they became powerful they became complacent and entirely content with following tradition rather than forging new traditions that coexist with the old ones.

I'm not saying the Dunmer should abandon their traditions, I'm saying they should get off their asses and do something. Back in the days of the Tribunal, Morrowind was the peak of art and technology as they built great cities and became literal gods, not because they were abandoning tradition but because they weren't content with just sitting around praying to their ancestors all day.

If you think that's liberal bullshit then you should go join some nigger tribe in Africa that has rejected innovation for thousands of years in favor of dancing around and picking flowers.

all elf's in TES are a brand of Jews. Altmer are just the Ashkenazi. Dunmer are Sephardic Jews. Do you think I would lie to you about this?

Bullshit. I should be able to risk a turn's healing, mana or whatever, on some kind of strong situational spell like an element spell, heavily buff/debuff, cast a summoning…
Whoever invented the generic Cast a 4 man healing was a serious nigger faggot

Yes Liberalism. King Henry VIII Starting the Anglican Church sho he could get a devorce was heresy. Britain was bound to fall because it do longer had the Divine right of Kings protecting its sovereignty.

It's even worse when you decide to be a ballsy motherfucker and only save when you are done playing the game.

Fuck off.

Literally only good for single player. The story does not mean shit.

I hate turn based combat with 3D models completely. It feels like the game is just teasing with what could be Tales or Kingdom Hearts action instead. The only time I can stand it is in monster collecting and even then only something like 60fps, which the PS4 port of Cyber Sleuth is fucking beautiful for.

That's something I reluctantly admit to Bethesda doing better than most, actually. Generally, if you can see what armour an enemy's wearing or the weapon they're using, you can pick it up after you kill them.

i like taking the clothes off of girl bandits

Shitty localization, Grindfests, "RPG" (see Mass Effect 3)

God I hate these. Just because you have dialogue, quests, and experience points doesn't mean you're a fucking RPG. They need to have the ability to make character "builds" or naturally allow you to role play. Shit like TW3 or ME2/3 are worse RPGs than fucking Call of Duty Black Ops 2. At least in that I can make loadouts and make decisions that impact the story in a way that isn't just a big dialogue prompt that pops up and says "do you want to do X or Y?"

Not to say that it's a good game or anything, I just mean that these "RPG" meme games are even worse than COD.

Level Scaling, Quest markers, Mandatory Companions, RNG loot drops, random unavoidable encounters.

everyone point at the kid and laugh

But they're right.

it's an RPG mechanic to roll for hit because not every hit is going to even damage a target or land properly.
I agree that it could be better implemented, but removing the feature entirely just removes it further from an actual RPG, even Diablo has hit chance calculations

I love Morrowind but you're a retarded faggot. Instead of this shit being RNG you could just have hits determined by if your weapon hitbox intersects with the enemy and an agile character would just get out of the way and actually dodge it. You can even account for improper hits by measuring how much of the hitbox is intersecting or if a weaker part of the weapon is (Dark Souls 2 had it so if the pole of a halberd hit an enemy but not the head you will do considerably less damage).

There are no excuses for RNG combat ever. The only time I will ever begin to excuse it is in the context of procedural generation but no one's figured out how to make that not shit anyways.

Also Diablo is not an example of how to do anything correctly, it is a terrible meme game.

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you forget that Morrowind is a fucking ancient game by technology standards, yes creating a glancing blow system would be nice but all the calculations the game would have to process would tax the game heavily. doing internal calculations for each part of the weapon vs the hitbox, angles, armor calculations etc. is simply more taxing than pulling a random number drop, applying some constants and checking that against a set number.

It didn't have all the fancy systems you're describing but you're making it harder than it has to be. I program physics in game engines and believe me you could do rotated hitbox collision detection in 2002.

The only reason Morrowind is full of retarded game mechanics like RNG is because the only person at Bethesda who knew what they were doing was Micheal Kirkbride and he wasn't in charge of the engine or combat.

I cited an example that was much more well known than wherever it originally came from. I say "wherever it originally came from" because I have no idea if anyone implemented something like that before DeS, with the point being that this shit doesn't matter.

NO U

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You know, I like turn based combat when it's done well (see Megaman X Command Mission and FFX for that). Especially when your actions can also affect the turns (again, Megaman X Command Mission has this thing where your actions might affect the order of turns) though I personally think that ATB is not a good way to handle that especially when you are sitting down and got called away for something and forgot to pause the game and come back seeing your character get KO'd

I enjoyed Bravely Default for what it did, since it's system of guarding to store actions was conducive to a playstyle of alternating offense and defense. It's especially nice that the jobs and their skills are all made with this in mind, several of them even having direct interaction with the BP system like being able to store more BP or spend it like another resource. The fact that enemies also have access to this spices up a lot of the fights, since it gives the enemy something to do other than randomly spam attacks, and can even signal the player that something dangerous is coming up so they can try to play around it instead of pure guesswork.
Come to think, Bravely Default also made debuffing valuable. Specifically, minor enemies that like to use dangerous magics can be hit with Silence (which also hits with decent reliability, shockingly enough). Something funny about this in particular is that sometimes this will lock the imp's AI into a loop results in it literally doing nothing until killed.
Bravely Default has its problems, but the things it does well make it really enjoyable.

I don't know if any game has done this, but a timer where the BBEG's forces move according to how long you've played on that character. Like, if you've played for 10 hours and done nothing related to the main quest, a village gets destroyed, another is destroyed every 10 hours, etc. OR if you choose to join the bad guys, the good guys hunt down and destroy an important feature every 10 hours in game.
You don't have to actually do quests to prevent this, but can defend the besieged area and drive off the forces.
Naturally there would be a full story with dialogue for both sides, or no sides. Or whether you decided to terrorize both sides at the same time

The only reason classes exist is because in pen and paper it took too damn long to build and level up characters so people use classes as a way to speed it up. In a video game you don't have to consult a rule book and write everything on paper so there is no need for this shitty arbitrary restriction.

I do like the class system in TRPGs especially Final Fantasy Tactics because you can mix and match the stuff each class have. Like say a gunslinging Wizard or a punchy Priest (and yes..I like using the PS1 class names)

PS1 version is the only one that isn't shit, it's okay.

i just cant go back and enjoy it knowing im missing out on bunny girls

Linear/re-used map design. Dragon Age 2 was a major offender in both of these. I'm currently playing FFXIII so I can clear it from my backlog and my god it's linear.