Response animations on impact

How come is this allowed? Response animations on impact and damage animations are the most important thing in shooter games and all action games. This is why Doom is such a boring game and STALKER and Fallout games are such a bullet sponge fest. Once again, WHY IS THIS ALLOWED????

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Hey what are some other good video games discussion forums guys?

You know what would be more exciting? Shooting enemies in the cranium is instakill, but shooting them in the neck or jaw gifts you with a long death or disable animations.

That's not why STALKER games are bullet-spongy, it's that non head-eye hitboxes have a very low damage multiplier and before anyone memes it up about playing on master, master decreases the player's damage resistances, not enemies. You can fix this in each one for human enemies by editing a single file, or 5 minutes total to fix every single mutant's damage multipliers.

Not really. Enemies in Goldeneye and MoH can be classified as bullet sponge, but the feedback is fine so you don't feel very bothered by the bullet sponge.

Bullet sponginess has nothing to do with feedback. It is literally just how many bullets an enemy can soak without dying.

Yes, and I said that if the feedback is good then you won't feel very bothered by the bullet sponge. In GTA 4, enemies can take quite an amount of bullets, but they act like real humans when getting shot hence it still feels fun despite the bullet sponge.

user you're wrong on every count. If an enemy can soak a wholly unrealistic amount of damage, like 10+ shots to an unarmored torso, they're bullet sponges, regardless of whether or not they double over when shot.

Now, you're shifting the goalposts and saying that you aren't personally bothered by bullet sponginess when enemies double over when shot, but that's not what we're talking about here. You specifically said STALKER games are bullet spongy because of the lack of feedback, when really it's because the enemies are fucking bullet sponges.

This isn't a hard concept to understand.

I said bullet sponge fest, not just bullet spongey, due to the fact that the animations and feeling are so lacking that the bullet sponge feels like an absolute huge pain in the ass. It's bullet sponge + lack of feedback.

This is why I always thought Gears of War was the best dudebro game:


The only thing Halo had over Gears of War was Forge/Customs (which were a blast), besides that it was shit.

But they're still bullet sponges, and this can be instantly corrected in some games by simply increasing the damage dealt and removing the bullet sponge effect.

Enemies in STALKER, for example, actually do have all kinds of "feedback" in the form of wounding animations, it's just that each limb has a "wounding threshold" which requires a certain amount of damage to be done, which is extremely high due to the fact that the enemies are fucking bullet sponges with the default damage multipliers, so you typically never reach the wound thresholds and eventually you land an insta-kill headshot.

Stop playing on easy then.

See
The "master lowers enemy TTK" myth is exactly that, a myth. Have already posted the files with difficulty comparisons, along with webms in other STALKER threads.

You're wrong, and you're perpetuating a myth that has been proven wrong time and time again. Just stop.

Get past the "hobo phase" and fights with humans becomes a lot more fun and fast-paced.
The reason everything feels shitty in the beginning is because all the starting weapons are supposed to be pea shooters with shit accuracy, making close-range headshots the only reliable way to take out enemies. Sadly, STALKER weapon damage isn't based on calibre, it's based on loose RPG-like loot progression. Midgame-on, the weapons feel like they should.
There's a reason every single stalker mod ups the damage and accuracy of the starting weapons (for both player and enemy).

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user I'm a modder, and have spent several hundred hours autistically modding and playing the fuck out of the series. You don't need to attempt to explain how the damage system works.

Fact is, the weapons by default are tuned like a fucking RPG with tiers, with no semblance of realism to be found. This is easily fixed with mods, as I've already said, but that doesn't take away the fact that enemies are absolutely bullet spongy on every difficulty in vanilla. As an example, a low-tier bandit takes an average of 8 shots to the torso with the starting makarov on every difficulty.

Mind you there are multiple different multipliers and hitboxes on the torso, such as a 0.5 modifier for hitting their fucking spine from the front for some retarded reason, but again, the "lower TTK on master" myth is bullshit and thoroughly debunked.

It's not that easy. Feedback animation is very important too in order to deliver a good guplay.

The rule for good feedback is EACH BULLET DELIVERED must trigger a wounding animation.

I know, it's like the Fallout games. That's why I hate it. Wound threshold shouldn't exist, or just exist to change enemy behavior. For example, too much damage on legs would make the enemy limp and too much damage done on arms would make the enemy drop their weapon and run away or shoot singlehanded. Basically like in the fallout games, too bad they lack impact feedback.


GoW has decent feedback.

SIGH

Thank you for repeating exactly what I said, but with your credentials thrown in.

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Yeah, that's absolute bullshit, I've seen that but I don't remember what game.

I agree completely on both counts, but that still doesn't mitigate the bullet/damage sponge effect if enemies are taking a disgusting amount of damage before dying. It can make the experience more tolerable, but if they're still taking a ton of fucking damage to kill, then we've got a problem. Damage sponges in shooters is one of my biggest pet peeves. I can't stand that shit.
Well, they sort of fixed that in Fallout 4. It's really one of the only things the game got right, aping L4D's damage modeling. Most enemies stagger properly when shot, and you can even shoot the limbs off Ghouls and have them drag themselves across the ground to get at you.

Read the post I was responding to, and then your post.

Either you agreed with him, in which case I was explaining why you were wrong, or you didn't, in which case you added nothing to the discussion.

I was saying basically the same thing you were, only coming to a slightly different conclusion.
We both know STALKER has dumb RPG-like tiers of weapons that doesn't really make sense, but my point was that it's only a problem in very early game, and disappears once you get proper rifles (i.e. anything not the 74u).

Sorry, missiles.

Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are the ones I most remember. You can make a guy agonizingly asphyxiate from a bullet to the neck, but further bullets do absolutely nothing to him, other than kinda wiggle his head a bit. Hell, even a fucking rocket to the face has no effect. Doom is also bad about this, but it only affects the player's hitbox and not his attacks. It's really annoying when you want to move fast and every enemy makes you wait a couple seconds before you can get past in a tight hallway.

In Far Cry 2, shirtless thugs take as many hits as mercenaries apparently wearing body armor. They're just different skins for the same enemy type.

It doesn't disappear though, because the higher-tier assault rifles don't do much more damage, they're just significantly more accurate. The enemies are still balloon-headed bullet sponges, it's just that your rifle will be accurate enough to consistently nail headshots from mid/long range.

To put it another way, you're handed a chocolate milkshake with a thick layer of cum floating on top. You're told that you'll be given a straw to bypass the cum on all future glasses, but only after finishing several glasses first. While the straw may improve your experience, it does not change the fact that there is still cum in your fucking milkshake :^)

Have you actually played the game lad?

Here, have a (You) :^)

Mine is damage animations. I can't stand shitty damage feedback animations on enemies. Bullet sponge, I can tolerate a bit on RPG games such as Fallout.

Eh, a bit, but not much.

I want them to twitch or stagger everytime they get shot.


Your guns will have more accuracy but less damage if I can recall.

Because as models and animations improved, laziness increased proportionally. In Goldeneye 64 and Perfect Dark the animations are hand crafted and the flinching is cartoonishly exaggerated so you hit them it looks like the weapons have actual impact. Shoot them in the balls they'll drop clinging to their jewels, you hit them in the torso they'll be caught in a loop where they're doing that distinctive hollywood stun flinch all the nameless thugs who get machined gunned in the movies do before slowly dropping to their knees and falling over, etc., etc. Once ragdoll physics came into play hand crafted animations for killing your enemies immediately died. Enemies exaggeratedly flinching and subtle to the point of being pointless flinching is a case by case basis but you notice it more the more realistic the graphics become.

That'd be fantastic. Left 4 Dead 2 nailed that shit 7 fucking years ago, yet hardly anyone is doing it today. You'd think with how much immersion it adds you'd at least see AAA devs doing it, but no, we're largely stuck with ragdoll physics straight out of ~2003.
That's what most people thought for the longest time, due to the hit_probability strings in the weapon files that pointed to different accuracy multipliers based on difficulty. The theory was that on anything but master, a percent of your shots would literally disappear, and with the janky vanilla accuracy of most weapons, people believed it. This is why a lot of older mods set those values to 1.0 (or 100%), because of that misunderstanding.

The thing is, those are actually the base accuracy values for the AI before the AI range settings come into effect when using the weapons, and are completely non-functional for players.

Strangely enough, those lines are also present in actor.ltx (which contains the settings for the player), but in SoC/CS/CoP vanilla (fully patched, I don't have any old unpatched hard copies around to check), they're set to 1.0 by default on all difficulties (which again would be 100%). What DOES change with SoC's difficulty is the player's base resistances (again, found on actor.ltx). You take a massively increased amount of damage as you move up the difficulty ladder, which is a good thing, as the game is far too arcady with how much damage you can soak on anything but Master.

The long and the short of it is that the above widespread misunderstanding about a few strings in the weapon files, combined with people just generally playing more methodically on master (and thus landing more headshots), is responsible for the "master has lower TTK" meme.

Shit, STALKER is one big pile of mess of a game. This is literally drunk programming. Slavs should get their shit together.

I know that Holla Forums hates this game, but I think Mafia 3 does it better than Mafia 1 and 2. The gun handling is worse though.

Fucking dive, or turn to see what happened, or have more than one duck animation ffs.


Doesn't that happen in Red Orchestra 2?

It's been a while since I played it but I do recall clearing rooms with grenades and hearing prolonged screams and cries for help.

Just looked it up, and you're right, the damage feedback does look good. Guys getting tagged with non-lethal hits and staggering, sometimes falling to the ground clutching the wound. Shame that it's a pozzed nigger simulator, but credit where credit's due: they did appear to nail the damage feedback.

This is like the 4th time I've seen you complain about this. You're whinier than women and black people combined.

Says who?