DOW 3 Eldar Footage: DOW now a MOBA

40k has been edgy ever since it dropped the over the top 80s fun to market itself as GRIMDARK. Maybe you should've paid attention to it some point in the past 20 years.

doesn't look that huge of a leap from DoW2 abilities, granted, I only played vanilla DoW2.

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at least it doesn't look like cartoony garbage like the original trailer did

How are skills bad on units?

woops, did ctrl-f for edgy and not edge

When everyone has skills they lose value and combat becomes a clusterfuck. Add these shiny effects and you can forget about understanding what happens in large scale confrontations.

When will Holla Forums's obsession with Mobas end?

Sure, maybe if you play a game primarily about massing units like AoE 2 or SupCom. But when you play games with less units, abilities become an important part of micro vs macro skills.

They said from day 1 that they wanted the moba audience.

It's cancer and will attract the same type of person that posts in 40K Generals here on Holla Forums.

They clearly said that DoW3 will use more units than DoW2.

It's one thing to have skills auxiliary to units (DOW 1) and it's another to have units auxiliary to skills (DOW 2).

I think it does, at least at the end.

kys

DOW 1
DOW 2 and now 3:

Wait, what? Wouldnt a unit with a skill worth having on the battlefield actually increase its value? Take DoW2 Guardians/Dire Avengers for example. They can put down shields and throw grenades, making them useful even in the later parts of the match.

Well it will become a clusterfuck if you dont pay attention, which probably means the person playing it is not that good at the game?

With this one I agree. They should reduce visual clutter but at the same time it has to be obvious enough that they are using a skill.

Keep in mind, 90% of users on Holla Forums are underageb7s who know nothing about 40k

Maps tend to be smaller 1v1, but they are defo not corridors.
I get your frustration but this is just ridiculous. Of course the base unit and its stats are incredibly important in DoW2.
This is just flat-out wrong. Are you telling me Catachans or Sentinels are viable? Or is it the HWS and Guardsmen?

Shield is a stationary skill. It's very clear where it goes and what it does.
What were are seeing here is a large amount of overly shiny active charge/leap/aoe shoot skills.

Here is a comparison: autarch leap DoW2. Slow leap. Have to time it right. Enemy can react. Distinct range, no bullshit.
Look at the macha jump here, she throws a projectile, then leaps , mid leap throws a large number of flashy white projectiles, lands damages in aoe and then the white projectiles go back to her and do damage again.

Can you see how overdone this is ? This is a game that expects dow1 tier numbers.
Which means that while she does this she could easily have several wraightlords doing the charge sword thing which is also shiny and an eldar titan spraying aoe.
It's too much. And that is just part of the units.

Did Chaos khorne demon thing chariot in DoW2 have a charge ? Yes, definitely. A slow charge with no sparkly shit.
This is completely not the case here. Everything is flashy as fuck and ever elite has active skills that are flashy.

The corridor thing is right though. Combat from DoW1 to DoW2 had it's terrain really reduced. Maybe a decision to improve aoe but still annoying and not fitting for an rts.
The areas of combat are 100% reduced. Even on 6 player maps most of the terrain is as wide as a heavy weapons squad can shoot.
This is a design decision.

You had best be joking.
Not only did Dawn of War 1 have heroes and titan units, and many of the maps in Dawn of War 2 were completely open, with only strips of terrain to force you to path around resources, but definitely not those 'corridors' you're imagining.

Do you get paid for this, or are you trolling?

Did anyone else see a moba in the videothe OP shared? I didnt. I saw what looked like a war craft 3 clone with a DoW skin. I can see the confusion though, since W3 spawned mobas

I don't get this place

No stop spreading this meme

D'you? So far as I can tell you're having a fit because Dawn of War 3 isn't Dawn of War 1, except it will feature base building, squads, hero units and big units like Dawn of War 1 did, the main difference is this game has decided to make those hero units more significant than they were before, and because you somehow know that Dawn of War 3 is going to be all corridors, have no depth of strategy and is somehow too colourful (!?!?) for you to take it seriously as an RTS.

You're a cunt, user. You're trying to be outraged at something that you won't know until a week after release when you watch other people play it and can make a more objective decision on whether or not its a load a shit or a faithful sequel to one of the most casual RTS franchises that only gets the attention it does because its warhammer. Dawn of War has always had dodgy, imprecise gameplay from knowing how reliably you are hitting to how easy it is to move large groups of units. It has always been super easy, with macro and micro management dumbed down so anyone can enjoy the games. It has never been a beacon of strategic depth or even a pioneer of the genre.

It was just fun. And if you think adding more abilities to heroes will make the game less fun then good for you. Literally not even going to have this fucking conversation with another rose-tinted mother fucker.

I bet you bought No Mans Sky and defended it until "a week after release" as well.
Why dont you go back to playing that?

Yeah that's what I thought bitch. Enjoy your thread.

FUCK YOU CUCKADIAN UGLY SOW YOU FUCKING RUIN EVERYTHING WITH YOUR PARTISAN PROPAGANDA

SHILL THREAD SHILL THREAD

DUMP GORE AND WOMEN ABUSE GIFS IN HERE RELIC HAS COME TO SHILL THEIR SHIT HERE

top kek
>>>/reddit/

Dude, the game looks like vomit. Sparkles n shit everywhere.

You see the downfall of the mechanics plain as daylight and you turn around to call them progress.
You call what strategy existed before shallow but it clearly doesn't bother you that it gets more and more shallow to the point where cover is reduced to shining shields in 3-4 spots on the map.

If you can't see the fault in this line of thinking go to kickstater and stay there.

You know you must be born before the 90s to be allowed to post here, right?

Striaght out of the shilling 101 playbook I persume?

The multiplayer maps are open though, it's the single player maps (and last stand obviously) that are closed off and corridors. Every single player map bar one or two is literally go from point A to point B with no way to get off the predetermined path.

There really isn't much info to go off but you can't say that the removal of both static, destroyable and creatable cover in favor of shitty cover bubble shields is a good idea.

Also only 3 factions on release is real shitty, we can expect overpriced DLC or expansions to fill in the gaps.

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So Warcraft 3 DoW edition? How is that a bad thing?

Looks like shit.

The correct answer is "I played half of it then stopped because it's shit"

this isn't OW thread

This was precisely my point,
THEY. ARE. NOT. OPEN.
They are 100% corridors.

The only correct answer is "I pirated it, played it for free and then put it down because it was shit as predicted."

Shame your IQ doesn't reach the 90s. You might know what synonyms are then.

No you silly goose. Saying you paid for something gives your argument weight because it means you have emotional investment. I'm not telling you to actually buy videogames

Not here it doesn't.

Holy fucking shit if you cherry picked any harder I'd put you to work on a plantation.

2 maps of the 12 or so 6 player maps is closed are off maps. Not only that but the second image you posted is of Kasyr Lutien Redux A FUCKING CUSTOM MAP.

DoW2 has some pretty big problems but none of them are 100% corridor maps.

Here are the other 5 6P maps, Capital Spire (non-redux) is basically the same.

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goyim is the plural for goy, goy

And you have the IQ of a nigger as well.

M8 I've played all of those maps and they have distinct corridors for confrontation.
What you see as tiny lines in the terrain are actually giant blocking obstacles, cliffs, hills and tons of impassable terrain that has chokepoint after chokepoint that you need to pass.
Only possibly open area is center, which just so happens to be a huge building. To enter the central part you still have a staircase in 1 spot per player, rest is walls walls walls.
Chokepoint is mid, the only remotely open area is the control point top right, but even then to enter it you have 4 distinct staircases and no other way in. To get to them you have more chokepoints and stairs.
Hills hills hills hills buildings.
Same as above.
Only remotely open area is the top part, which can be entered only though chokepoints.
Can't remember this one.
Middle is again entered via chokepoints. Rest is impassable cliffs with 2 paths around each.
Among the worst offenders. Left side full max corridor. Mid corridor with extra walls. Right corridor with a few staircases which the worst of chokepoints.
Left is a corridor with a staircase. Right is staircases with a bit of open ground and then hills with 2 paths around each. Quite frankly it's abysmal and snowballing on that map is horrendous.
Bottom left is a bunch of corridors with buildings. Tight as fuck. Center diagonal can barely pass for open ground since it's surrounded by corridors, buildings and bunkers.
The control points next to spawn are so badly separated an enemy could cap and even if your units are close they would have to conver more and more corridors to get there. Which takes a while.

You should actually play these maps and realize how tight as fuck they are before you post em.

read
You should actually play dow 2 for at least 40 minutes before trying to shill it.

Go back to MENSA to circlejerk with your autist friends about a number that under the current psychological paradigm literally means nothing.

Re-read my post and greentext where I mentioned IQ.
Protip: on fullchan there are IDs, newfag.
Learn to read them.

Protip: lurk for at least 6 months before posting.

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All they had to do was make Dark Crusade 2. Even a lazy HD rerelease of a game from 2006 would have been better than this shit. Even Soulstorm with all it's lazily botched together factions and lousy balancing was better than this.

I've never had any sort of positive expectations for this game. In fact, I've had negative expectations, assuming it will be a detriment for mankind somehow.

Still this manages to disappoint me.

HOW?!

What the fuck. There're even more reasons to hate that shit, dow2 would've been good if they hadnt reduced the population cap to a ridiculous 8 units at the end game and removed bases altogheter, all of this just to make it more casual friendly. Actually, you can get that with a hardcore mod for dow1 to reduce health on all units
Dow3 is just the final result, nothing unexpected. But still, this

Looks like the video is gone. But it's too late, I've already stared into the maddening depths of the Warp.

grimdark doesn't equal edgy, though

Why is anyone giving a shit about Not Dawn of War 3?
The only 40k game coming out soon worth giving a shit about is Deathwing and even then there is debate whether that will be good or not.

I am not sure if trolling or seriously this dumb

Pleonasm.

looks like someone is mad they're IQ isn't 198 like mine ;)

I can't see the problem.
So what if it looks like a moba? They are bad because of gameplay not because of graphics

read
for gameplay details
and see pic

OP is the biggest faggot I have ever seen and he needs to get the fuck out. I am 100% certain he is only acting like a retard because he came straight from cuckchan and literally thinks he has to hate everything because of the cuckchan meme "hurrrr Holla Forums hates everything durrrr". DoW3 will be a piece of shit that nobody should buy but OP is a gigantic fucking faggot that acts unreasonable in every way. I'm almost tempted to believe that he is shilling the game (by creating exposure).

Absolutely disgusting.

sage for off topic

When you get banned for violating rule 8 it won't be because of wrongthink or anything like that. It will be because you're an obnoxious faggot.

Relic IDF right there.

Please stop
It hurts too much

You could argue that the word corridor is not the best one to use, but you cannot argue that the maps are not tight as fuck.

Sync kills are gone but we have this ASSFAGGOTS-style shit instead…

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Holy shit stop

Please….stop…
I was hyped when they showed the CGI trailer
I even defended the screenshots since the game was early in development.

This just kills me inside, I wanted a Relic RTS, not a fucking MOBA by Relic.

You know what I really like? That I could already tell you were a shill from your first post in this thread

It's hilarious because you faggots always try to start low-key but as soon as you get pushed a bit you reveal your true intent. It may work on Reddit, but it's blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't 14.

i hurt myself

You are fucking retarded. game looks bad but you are retarded.

TODAY
TO SEE IF I STILL FEEL

40k version when this is released

"Super-speshul" ability micro-managment is shit design.

They make no fucking sense, they are shit, ugly to look at, clutter the UI and makes everyone seem retarded, because you have to babysit them the whole time.

I can feel it

People still dont know why the song was used, do they?

They can be pretty good when done right though

They're never done right and thats the main issue.
DoW OG had them and they were done right.

It went from "X to the detriment of Z" or "extremely specialized skill against X enemy" to "More DPS" or "Bigger target area".

These skills should be used when needed, not fucking mandatory after a certain timeframe.

Because I fucked up and have shitty taste.

Someone else do it this time, please. I don't want to fuck this up as well, especially considering I know much less about Warhammer and Games Workshop in general than Doom and iD. At least it wouldn't be as bad as vid related. Remember the thread where we used all the music that could fit better in a youtube doubler?

The background music isn't that bad, it's just that the lyrics are absolutely horrendous

Here's an interesting idea: Have those skills be used automatically when certain conditions are met. A cluster of enemies will prompt your units to throw grenades into the middle of them, an ability that works best against a certain target will be auto-casted if that unit is in range, etc.

I mean, if the idea is to make an RTS, wouldn't the strategy part of it be the most important? As in, choosing what skills\weapons to take for battle and how best to use them, instead of heavily depending on reflexes and action as if it was a twitch shooter?

Get the fuck out

Some games give you the option to turn on auto-use of abilities like you're describing. The only problem then is players who are better at micro turn off auto-casting and have a pretty major advantage.

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Trash
Casual trash

yeah, double dubs 911 man, but they didn't use just the background, did they? Who thought this song about shitty hair would be a good idea, honestly…

I've noticed that the johnny cash video has over 5 thousand views, but the admittedly unfinished reznor one only has 70.

Good fucking god this is unbearable to watch. Not only is it full of generic mobashit, it's also complete with those actiblizzard animations that I can't fucking stand. Oh, and good to know that standard non-hero units are basically the equivalent to minions/creeps, it meshes so well with the established lore that space marines can be chopped up like they're just dumbasses in cardboard armor.

I mean, sure, you kill a lot of infantry in other DoW games, but my point is that units saw a lot more use and could be geared to fight specific units, especially the imperial units, unlike here where they're just cannon fodder for the hero units, because being a moba was totally the spirit of DoW amirite. Also:

Fuck everything about this game.

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WE should`ve known when they started a parade of women on their dev blogs, their focus groups are way off their element

Mute the trailer and fullscreen it.
alt. start the trailer at 0:35

youtubedoubler.com/?video1=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGmmXd8r4YQ&start1=25&video2=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTidn2dBYbY&start2=44&authorName=aphrocarlin

We did.
We called bullshti when the cringy "i am teh p3nguin of d00m" introduction pamphlets/interviews with the community managers were published and we called ASSFAGGOTS when they said this game was going to be focused more on hero characters. We also noted how shit the game looks (so cartoony because wider audience=kids) and how badly it represents the 40k lore (power armour of any kind jumping in any way other than simply running out of plain surface while moving)

Looks just like dow1 to me.
Keep on hating haters.

Wait, the whole "penguin of doom" shit was completely unironic? God damn, this is shaping up to be soulstorm 2.0 only actually way worse and no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Remove the option to turn them off then?
Multiwinia is still one of my all time favorite RTS, the units there may end up having the ability to throw grenades but they do so automatically and according to what they think to be a good idea.
You can even tie this with the Tech tree and give them training to better use those abilities.

Every other point you made is spot on, but this right here…

It's pretty stupid that a userbase composed of people that hate and despise Mobas and don't play any of them keeps acting like some kind of expert on what's a Moba.
It's not, it doesn't have the usual elements you can associate with one and having skilsl does not make it a Moba.

If you couldn't control your army, if you gained Requisition from killing Units (and power from Heroes, Towers), if the game was straight corridors with bases already pre-built for you and if you could only buy items and upgrades to your hero with said requisiton, upgrades that don't carry for the next mission, that would make it an actual Moba.

As it stands, it's a casual over-the-top RTS. It's DoW1 but incredibly more flashy, which is shit and baffling why they though this was a good idea, but this is not a Moba.

SUPERIOR ELDAR SWORD SKILLS, DRAG SWORD ON GROUND AND WALK FORWARD

Fine, it's an ASSFAGGOTS-like.
Has elements of ASSFAGGOTS, but doesn't play exactly the same. Made to attract the ASSFAGGOTS audience or people who are too shit/young to play actual ASSFAGGOTS. Kind of like CRAPCUNTS.

*warps behind you*
pssshh, nothing heretical, kid

No, for fuck's sake. It's a casual RTS, focused more on being flashy than being deep and interesting.

For fuck sake, stop abusing words and making them lose all their meaning just because you have an hate boner for something. Moba's are one thing (shit) and this is another. Moba's are shit for a very long list of very specific reasons but none of them happen here, this one is shit for a long list of OTHER very specific reasons.

By the emperor, it's just like claiming GTA and Need for Speed are the same type of game because you drive cars in both or that NFS is a GTA-like or something…

Just because it's not featuring a map of three lanes and a jungle doesn't mean it's not featuring any moba elements, even the lifebars of the hero units are lifted straight from the moba design book.

Just look at OP's mp4: infantry units are being absolutely slaughtered like they're nothing, in a manner that is eerily similar to the creep/minion system from moba games, as in, expendable units that only serve the purpose for grinding hero unit levels. Contrast that to a match from the previous DoW games that, while able to slaughter infantry, could actually stand much more and saw actual use instead of being just squishy blood juice boxes for you to mindlessly kill.

Also note the way the abilities work and look like, you can't deny that it takes notes from moba games as well, doing all sorts of flashy shit with effects that you usually see in dota or lol, not mentioning the infamous "backflipping terminator" that Angelos has now become.

It's not a moba in the sense that you normally know, but it certainly plays like one, only that now has economy, basebuilding on top of it. The contention here is that ASSFAGGOT elements do not belong on DoW, even DoW2 had similar shit but had the common sense to equal the playing field by still giving other units actual use and not turning them into the equivalent of minions/creeps. Here on DoW3 it feels tacked on for the very specific purpose of getting the ASSFAGGOT crowd and probably are also going to push for the fucking e-sport meme, and since we have enough mobashit as it is, ASSFAGGOTS and esports are memes that really need to die off.

HOLY SHIT YOU'RE RIGHT
I never noticed how big a problem that is.

That could work.

why are 40kniggers such newfag cancer

I just want Supreme Commander + WH40k.

That all.

This better be a shitty bait, shilestien.

this whole thread is bait, assfaggots seems to have gone from legitimate but terminology into code for thing i dont like. if the imperium were real you would be euthanized for having the brain of a bug

Yes it's bait. Lurk more in 40k threads, his kind always show up.

you mean like how people go in to the waifu generals in a failed attempt to break up a circlejerk? someone has to remind you how retarded you are

Jesus Christ. Who chose the music for this? Did they get some random black guy or tumblrite to do it? Fuck, It's not even anything epic or chaos like. It's like if they got Kanye to do Final Fantasy or DMC's trailers. Just kill me.

this garbage is gonna bomb so hard that they're gonna pack in DoW for good.

The guy running this show is so fucking cluelessly retarded and out of touch…god damn

but goy! we gotta tap into that hidden 40k female demographic!

fucking hell capitalism how does it work?

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youtubedoubler.com/?video1=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YROOgLD-wtU&start1=35&video2=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAMXGw6fU0U&start2=0&authorName=

This whole situation is so fucked up

What are they doing I dont understand

Here we go again. Oh great voice of reason show us ignorable plebs the way.
Us lost souls, who can no longer like games, please great one, teach us how to like ASSFAGGOT mechanics in the only big RTS coming out anytime soon.
Tell us wise one how shiny blinding ASSFAGGOT effects on every swing of every unit improve our RTS games.
Ohhhh ! Guide us, please ! What can we possibly do without your great wisdom !

does no one remember how ridiculously powerful your heros were in the dawn of war 1 campaigns?

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They had passive abilities, and that's only in the campaign. On multiplayer they absorb more damage but they die easily. The few active stuff like the eldar powers or ig artillery call had long cooldowns adn they made sense, what we see on dow3 trailers are ability spams like shot that deals more damage, jump with a power armor, sprint with a fucking knight. Not to mention other bullshit like random shiny force fields to make sure you know where the cover is, or the autocannon (or some other weapon) dealing more damage the longer they're fired

Did you not just watch matcha do a hadouken, then leap, shoot projectiles mid air, land with aoe damage and have all the projectiles return to her doing extra damage ? All of this being a lightshow any night club desires ?
How is it lost on you that such things are a step away from the design of dow. Even dow2 didn't have such lighshows. Only assfaggots have them.

38:50 terminator sends a wraithblade flying 20 meters by simply hitting it with a hammer
39:40 wraithguards sent flying 20 meters simply being hit by same terminators
just fmsu

i dont care what you like, but autism demands that when plebs are going to spout complete bullshit someone needs to tell them to use their brains for once.
what really baffles me is that you fags werent around to shit on dow2. instead praising it for once again focusing on the blood ravens and having the reduced unit count of your marines feel closer to the fluff.

depending on the race/faction you took you might constantly be using abilities even in multiplayer, the tau commander comes to mind. maybe nothing quite so egregious but youre still constantly using abilities.

where do you jackasses get this soft spot for dawn of war 2? how is this not a step in the right direction from that heap of garbage?

But most didn't have a soft spot for it. It was a game from a different genre.
Even so it followed basic physics rules like dow did. This game does not. Gone are the hulking force commanders crushing cover in their slow walk. Now we get the jumping force commanders. Gone is the slow macha that could use aoe immoblizing skills, now we get jumpy disco macha.
How is changing core shit like troop movement and squad equipping a step in the right direction ?

why the hell are 90% of the complaints about presentation? and do you not remember the "sync kills" from the first game? people were constantly flipping around and doing flashy execution animations but those got praise?
first and foremost the rts aspect seems to be making a return. squad equipment was never handled well anyways. all it ended up being was dumping more resources in to a unit so you can finish building it on the field. specialized units are fine since you wouldnt want to mix and match anyways because you were playing rock paper scissors and on top of that heavy bolters didnt play nice with closer ranged weapons.

as opposed to
Kill yourself right now.

The damage control is real.

its a pointless option when you can just drop pod/webway gate your heavy weapons where you need them anyways.

You are just going with the flow at this point.

well sure, but you dont have any points to make. youre just telling me you disagree.
it probably all goes over your head since you only play the games for the atmosphere and nerd cred.

the problem with deathwing is that the community has been asking for a gameplay video for months, and the devs have done absolutely nothing to address it.

you cannot go to any forum or site that's talking about deathwing without seeing discussion of the lack of gameplay showcasing. You have the usual handfuls of shills and teenage fucktards who think that a 3 minute long game trailer showing 15 second clips of different gameplay counts as a "gameplay" video, but naturally those people are fucking retarded. The fans have been asking the devs to give a few preview copies to a couple youtubers or to provide a video themselves showing them playing the game, nonstop, for 15-20 minutes. The devs have turtled up and have apparently taken a vow of silence. The thing is, this would be terribly easy to do. MUCH easier to do than orchestrate and render a cinematic trailer, which they ALREADY have several of. A simple capturing program is all they need and they'd be able to upload it somewhere in a matter of hours.

That they haven't is sending out very loud alarm bells and the community is fighting amongst itself trying to determine whether the release is going to be great or catastrophic.

the only thing you can determine from dead silence is "thats shifty as hell". which as you said sets off alarm bells.

but the gameplay video has been out for months now

You aren't bringing anything new to the table either beside blatant shilling and ignoring obvious changes.
Kind of like the star wars fan that cannot get over how bad episode 7 is, so he brings up the prequels every time someone shits on it.
Go play your beloved assfaggots.

Just filter him.
No point in wasting time with shills.
It's an unlisted video showing the true face of dow3 (which the devs thought would showcase the "best" features of the game), it's obvious we're gonna get desperate shills ITT.

you sound like one of the people i specifically talked about.

go ahead and give me a link to a gameplay video, that shows uninterrupted gameplay for at least 15-20 minutes.You won't be able to do that because it doesn't exist. The only "gameplay" we can see is in a "gameplay trailer" that is only 3 minutes long, as I said, and only shows 10 second clips of short lived action. That is all something I already said, including that that is not enough. Actual gameplay needs to be shown as it would appear on your screen if you were playing it, not an edited video with tiny clips cut into a trailer with some narrator advertising the game to you.

Now embed a link to a gameplay video for Deathwing keeping in mind the things I just told you (fucking twice).

what kind of non argument tactic is this? the only point ive been trying to make is that the things youre complaining about are idiotic to anyone who actually plays video games and didnt just get kicked out of /tg/

what desperate circle jerking. 40kniggers confirmed for worse than undertale generals

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Actually there was one video that was behind closed doors at e3 last year that someone made a shitty camcorder gam-
and someone posted it while I was typing

It makes me wary of the replayability of the game. I got WH: Vermintide because my brother got it and wanted someone to enjoy it with, and we had a decent time for the first 10 hours or so, but then it quickly became dull because it was literally playing through the same 7 or 8 missions over and over and over ad nauseam. I doubt I'll ever touch the game again.

If Deathwing actually is what it appears to be, it will be much more fun than Vermintide, whose combat and gameplay felt somewhat clunky, but at 35 bucks I don't know if it's worth it. The devs mentioned that there are only a few hulks to play though, and it would take an hour or so for each one.

That video is from E3 2015. It doesn't exactly take a genius to understand why that isn't acceptable as a gameplay video.

Once again, we need a video that shows 15+ minutes of uninterrupted play of the game in its current state. Sure, there is the possibility that there's nothing afoot and the game will be all well and good, but not doing something that could be accomplished in an afternoon to show the fans that they aren't selling snake oil throws up some huge red flags.

I think it's just one guy. It seems like every time Warhammer gets mentioned it's always 40KIDDIES 40KNIGGERS /TG/ NEWFAG VIRGINS GET OFF MY BOARD REEEEEEEEEEEE. I can't tell if he actually has some kind of autistic obsession with it or if he's just trying to be a contrarian attention whore.

sounds like the christfag who keeps dumping the same two dozen religious webms every time a new webm thread gets made. i don't know what he's trying to accomplish – either shitposting to bait people, or legit trying to convert faggots, i have no idea – but he doesn't seem to understand that a comfy webm thread on Holla Forums is the last place to be posting dull, boring videos of pastors making religious lectures about stuff.

if it was funny or amusing that'd be a different story, but like the guy earlier in this thread i think we have some regulars here with certain berserk buttons where they can't help sperg about something.

Have you tried not being autistic?

in general many of the same people return to threads of similar topics. you must be pretty new for this to shock you

haha well well, look who it is
so sorry that 5 different anons had to tell you to stop spamming your dull shit two threads ago

i think his point is that the people who sperg out because they hate certain topics keep going into threads on those topics just to shitpost and rage. There's no point in that so they should stop doing it. I might hate mlp with a burning fucking passion but that doesn't mean im walking into an mlp thread to tell those fags how much i cannot stand their little girl ponies.

absolutely. however if hes referring to me whos often butting heads in 40k threads since the dow3 wagon started up, i rather like 40k, dawn of war and rts.

Bleh, heroes look way too over powered (and over the top) still. The way they destroy full squads of guys like they are simple mob trash just furthers that "MOBA" feel too.

I'm out.

Remember how in the first game Heroes were just a strong unit you can only have one copy? I liked the way they were a good unit but not too strong. They had abilities too but the difference is that their abilities were usually something unique like the Tau traps and Necron ressurection rather than this shitty MOBA style shit. The best they got was usually just their unique artillery ability but i'm sure they will all have super special "ults" in this that completely destroy armies by themselves now instead of just doing a lot of avoidable damage.

Heroes were tough but they weren't unstoppable killing machines that wiped whole squads away in seconds. It took time for them to cause that much damage, and they could easily be overwhelmed by superior firepower.

DOW2: heroes are incredibly destructive and can wipe weaker troops away with a single attack.

DOW3: heroes are god-killing world destroyers who can obliterate several entire fireteams/squads with one strike.

...

...

Get the fuck out of here NUrelic, all of you are a disgrace to the team that developed the original dawn of war, there is no possible redemption for your new game, not even the macha strips.
You cant even make it look like 40k.

Don't do that user.

Im just so mad, sad and dissapointed user, i wanted HD DoW with new stuff, i wanted to form my IG battle lines with mass infantry, bunkers and heavy weapon teams supported by basilisks tearing apart waves of chaos and orks while my space marine buddy in multiplayer delivered crippling attacks while i get my tanks ready.
Why must life be so shit?

You know, this could've been rather good. They could have bothered to listen to the fanbase. The fanbase that said, 'hey, we want DoW3 to take the good parts of both entries, give us DoW1 scale & bases and DoW2 fidelity & engine improvements. Maybe make things a little closer to tabletop or a little more faux-realist.' It wouldn't have even been very hard. Dawn of War 2 was based on Essence Engine 2.0, itself developed from Company of Heroes Essence Engine 1.0; and following DoW2, Company of Heroes 2 was based on EE 3.0. CoH2 made many mistakes, but the engine itself is quite nice and it can be quite enjoyable with mods to jury rig it into something close to CoH1 with an improved engine, and removing the absurd grind for commanders to get units & abilities in favor of doctrines. But apparently this kind of backlash has taught Relic absolutely nothing, and they instead doubled down.

Dawn of War 3 is looking like some kind of bastard RTS-MOBA middle ground of mediocre shit, very pretty to look at, but not what anyone wants. The old fanbase, waiting to sling money at Relic even as they'd inevitably have some grumbling complaint or another, valid or otherwise, is totally turned off now. The earth is scorched and salted on that front. The general RTS market, which isn't dead, but certainly a bit contracted, is going to look sidelong at the game and not give it much of any attention for not resembling its root series, Command & Conquer shenanigans, Supreme Commander liquid economy total warfare, Men of War hard simulism, or really any of the popular formulas they'd be interested in. And the MOBA 'community' will continue to play shit MOBAs and weedle away a bit of cash at a time, whale hard, or pay nothing at all, while having no interest in something that requires their attention on multiple units and no psychotic levels of clickan dickan action.

Consider for a moment an alternative. Relic, listening to its relevant fanbases, decides to go back and have a look at what people liked about each entry. They understand that people liked Dawn of War for being Dawn of War, but tended to roll back the increasingly gamey changes of the expansions to make it more resemblant to the original Dawn of War or else like the tabletop game with 1:1 statlines & resource costs, with the occasional attempt to match the very disparate lore power descriptions. They understand that Dawn of War 2's campaigns were pretty universally loved, but backcapping dickery wasn't really enjoyable. Personally, I found the game a bit stiff overall, too, but that might just be me. Of course, the Army Painter was a winner overall. They understand that CoH1 was generally well liked and that people liked to add other theaters of war or to make things a little more simulistic, and to throw in new models and skins where they could. They understand that people hated CoH2's commander system, or at the very least the loot system, but also that the engine advances are more or less universally good, the only really awful thing about the new engine being the gutted modding tools allowing for no model imports whatsoever.

Take all that, and graft it together. Outright exceed Dawn of War I's scale in an Essence 4.0 engine, bumping things up to Apocalypse scale. Follow the tabletop closely, though not biblically, making tweaks to costs as balance demands and maybe making certain factions/units tougher or weaker along the lines of rulebook lore blocks, maintaining an equilibrium of balance through well organized stat-based requisition cost and the like if one does so. Make it fully possible to brawl in flagrant melee like in the Dawn of War titles, since it wouldn't be Warhammer without such, and also graft in some tabletop & Company of Heroes imports to round out the shooting; the latter's suppression system can be modified to represent the tabletop Pinning rules, for example, or else the latter can be used as a pretext to directly use the former, though I prefer the first of these solutions. Fill out the cover system and add building occupation for cityfighting, add a little more robust terrain deformation for shell craters and non-building occupation based trench digging, too. Add every unit that can be added. For those that can't be added immediately or for noncore units ala Forgeworld splatbooks, release them later in expansion packs, coming in the form of a kind of videogame splatbook equivalent, combination mission/campaign packs & unit patches produced by a sweatshop of otherwise unoccupied team members; the missions have to be bought, but the units are free for all players, and the content packs themselves are very fat by modern standards. Release new armies in proper expansion packs. Release a fuckhuge and entirely obligatory Warhammer 30,000 super-standalone expansion further down the line, which is compatible with the main timeline armies in the same fashion as 30k and 40k can play against each other more or less seamlessly on tabletop with the agreement of both parties. Take the Army Painter and expand it even further into an Army Modeler, with players being able to kitbash pre-prepared unit parts together to make even more donut steel regiments and warbands, fiddling with the level of part randomization for if you want a slickly uniform army or a gritty band of hardened fighters using whatever they can get a hold of. More parts for the Modeler can be acquired in aforementioned campaign packs or cosmetic packs, as the sole import from the obnoxious CoH2 store; they can have their sheeny microtransactions, fine, but keep it out of the game itself. And you can always snatch up whatever the modding community has been cooking up in the meantime as far as cosmetic parts and fanfictiony units & factions go.

Yes, they COULD have done all that, and it could have been rather good. But instead they listened to Sega, or their garbage internship-transplanted younger employees, or maybe just their own self doubting market-illiterate selves. They didn't give us that and are probably too deep in to try and give us that. They gave us an unsolid looking if playable RTS with goofy MOBA abilities that totally guts the complexity of the Dawn of War titles and fails entirely to exploit the advances made in the Essence Engine by Company of Heroes or to learn from what the playerbase does with their games, every single time; try and make it more like the original gold they struck, with just a little bit of polish and some extra shit modded in with grognard sweat, blood and tears. They could have seduced the old audience back, gotten some Company of Heroes imports looking for more gamey combined arms health bar'd spongetank warfare in a setting far more suited to that kind of thing, and gotten entirely new blood with only a little effort expended while making money hand over fist without anyone but the most jaded and prickly having anything to complain about, thanks to fucking gimmick chasing suit bullshit. It could have been so easy.

Well, they're trying to do both, and it will be a colossal shitheap. They've started with "hey it's going to be a proper RTS like DoW 1 with bases and big battles" but everything after that was "MOBA-inspired" this, "MOBA-inspired" that. I can't really blame them for going for that market (which will fail, MOBA players will play MOBAS and won't know or care about DOW3) but they could at least be real and drop the pretense. Everything about this game screams COOL HEROES DOING COOL THINGS… oh and maybe buildings and maybe some other units because the whole RTS thing, right.

I disagree, it looks like complete shit. Still images were already pretty bad (it looks like modernized SC2) but the way everything moves looks so weird and spasmy I'm amazed anyone can look at it without laughing. Add a million EPIC WOW HERO LEVEL999 GROUND STOMP!!!111!! particle affects to every single thing and you have DoW3 graphics.

Hence 'middleground.'

I should've clarified, it's very pretty to look at in motion. I like the way the units move, even if they're a bit spasmy here and there. The big units are clunky and clanky, and things that ought to spew exhaust spew exhaust. The canned MOBA ability animations have had at least a little work put into them. The colors are too flat, but the composition could be worse. Maybe I'm just looking for faint praise to damn it by, though.

Those.
Just 1 RTS on the market except dow 2 retri elite mod (which is dead) (which is a fucking RTT) and dow ss (which I've grown tired and bored with after 200 hours) and wc3 (which I dont like and dont want to play anymore) and sc2 (never played).
We've got 2-3 RTS available, 1 from 2008 (dow ss), 1 from before that (wc3) and sc2 (who the fuck plays that shit).
pic related

Even just releasing DOW HD would have been enough.
It would have cost almost nothing and be better received than this shit.
That was it, it would have taken 1 year of development.
After that they could re-release the DOW 1 expansions, adding tau necrons DE SoB in 2 expansions.
Cheap, profitable, easy, well-received.
Instead we're gonna get THIS abomination.

There was already a WH40K MOBA. It failed hard, and was killed for mercy.

Abd just because of DoW2 Last Stand, you dont make the enitre game MOBA-like. Are the developers retarded or what?

They wasted their dev team budget on hiring women who know nothing about RTS games, Dawn of War or Warhammer in general just so they could publish some blogs about having women in their team, and the rest of them seem to have only joined the company when SEGA decided it wanted to pump out Last Stand DLC and nothing else. So yes, the dev team is completely retarded and have no idea what they are doing.

The first game had turrets you could place on the nodes you captured, just like every moba. I guess DoW 1 was a moba too since it shares one element with them.
Seriously, stop using words like that just because you want to tag the game with a negative connotation. There are plenty of other words for that.

This is like someone calling a nigger "wetback", there are proper words and proper reasons to shit talk about things, don't be this fucking lazy.

The Devs did what the fans wanted, the majority of them anway.

Let's face it. Most of the players in DoW2 are playing Last Stand (according to another user in this thread, 90%). Why bother with an actual good RTS when apparently the fans love to wank their heroes and pay no attention to troops? For the devs (that clearly tracked that data for marketing purposes), that's what they see, fans prefer controlling a single powerfull hero killing hundreds of mobs instead of an army.

And just take a look at most fans and what they post or talk about anyway. It's usually wanking over important characters in the story or the big bad vehicles\titans of each faction. There's little to no talk about each individual unit and most fans care more about aesthetics than functionality in W40K anyway.
At least, that's the image they pass on, so when a dev looks at them (especially a team of female devs with no experience with anything relevant here), what they see is "We want to see Gabriel Angelos killing thousands of filthy xenos in the most aesthetically pleasing manner possible" which, surprise surprise! It's what you got.

Does it look like shit? Yes. Is it incredibly shallow? Of course.
But is it gonna sell a lot and be loved by the majority? You best believe it.

In case nobody noticed, the game is closer to a musou game than an RTS now. Not a MOBA, a MUSOU game. Know the difference.
That's why it looks like a shitty RTS with a gigantic emphasis on your heroes and abilities but no economy or dynamic from Mobas. Because it's a musou game now.

Please Enlighten me to the difference, Because I was pretty sure Musou games were like samurai warriors and the like **dynasty, Orochi ect…)
I'm really not seeing the similarities at all, or at least how its closer to a Musou than a MOBA

That simply isn't true. You are repeating what the marketers are saying. They want last stand to be popular, they updated only it and nothing else. The DoW3 community manager playing it on stream and talked about it.
But in reality it's just a mod. It's not that big.

well it helps that the skirmish mode is such a janky example of an rts. it wasnt company of heroes 40k but some sort of odd real time tactics with rts elements.

you ever play those warcraft 3 maps like seven samurais?

The difference is, you play dow3 like a moba game. If it was an action game we could say it has moba elements, but this is just a singleplayer moba. Which means the multiplayer will consist of sending your troops to cap points with a few quick clicks and spending the rest of the time killing people with your hero. The only difference here is most mobas move the troops to the objetives automatically

That's when I bought it, around 2014 I think. There was 10 open games and almost no queue time on last stand with hundreds of people looking for parties to play it. However, you only had one troop there, and one or two turrets/small quads at best. If they want to make a moba for the moba audience with rts elements for some reason, it's gonna fail

It is true, im not saying people dont play the real game but most of the playerbase focused on last stand

If you are correct and most of the DoW2 playerbase is just playing last stand, then DoW3 being mobashit would be immediately explained from a marketing and community standpoint.
That said I don't believe you and need to see some numbers.

...

Musou games have 2 armies clashing against each other all over a large map with plenty of mooks (called peons) on each side for regular troops but largely irrelevant. The guys that matter are the captains and the heroes that roam the field and wipe several hundreds of them with a single swipe of their weapon before clashing against each other on a long fight.

Seriously, go watch on youtube average gameplay for the Zhou Yu or whatever the name of the spearfag that is the poster child for that game was, then compare it to that Eldar chick. Jumps in the air, slams on the ground, large wide attacks, pretty much the whole thing.
Fuck, Lu Bu is just a disciple of Khorne.

I'm repeating what another user said in the thread, which I find to be plausible since it seems to have greatly influenced the devs decision when making DoW3.
I could be mistaken and I hope I'm mistaken, but you should know better.

You don't farm troops for requisiton, you don't travel through fixed lanes, you don't have Towers that cockblock you for the first 15 minutes of the game in the map, the economy revolves around building stuff, not getting kills and farming the jungle, you dont buy new and better equipment for your hero that determines 80% of his power in a shop, etc etc.

Stop making comparisons with things you don't even play. You want to call it shit, call it shit. No reason to keep labeling it an unpopular term just to make it look even worse when that term has nothing to do with it.

No shit. It was pretty much the only thing they updated and any new DLC was usually just a new hero for Last stand. Nevermind the fact that most fans were probably playing the first game or a different RTS instead because DOW2 was such a dissapointment to many.

They said "We understand that people didn't like DOW2" then followed it with "Most people played Last stand so that's what everyone who DIDN'T LIKE DAWN OF WAR 2 likes right?". They have no idea why people didn't like DOW2 and can only go with what they hear on forums. They are right that people didn't like the smaller armies so it was a good decision to increase the scale of battles again. It was a bad decision to put so much focus on fucking heros just because those left who didn't uninstall DOW2 liked playing the fucking minigame side mode.

Of course they are probably just using Last stand as an excuse so they don't have to admit that they are just chasing the MOBA audience. DOW3 isn't going to be a MOBA but it's taking a lot of bad influences from them, probably because of retarded marketing people insisting it's whats popular and needs to be copied. I'm just waiting for them to announce their support for the esports community and that they plan for DOW3 to be a competitive esports game.

This game is going to pretty much confirm that Relic is dead.

It does makes sense. Last stand is definitely the Dota of Dawn of war.

You guys suck even at hating shit, seriously.
Quoted straight from the post you were replying to:
You don't farm troops for requisiton, you don't travel through fixed lanes, you don't have Towers that cockblock you for the first 15 minutes of the game in the map, the economy revolves around building stuff, not getting kills and farming the jungle, you dont buy new and better equipment for your hero that determines 80% of his power in a shop, etc etc.

The only thing it shares with Dota is heroes having abilities and troops that appear much weaker than heroes, that's all. That does not make it a moba at all, that makes it closer to a musou game than a moba.
If you want to be lazy just say "Last stand is the musou mode of DoW"

The dota comparison is better simply because Last stand does to DoW what dota did to WC3.
It drowned all other modes out and people played less normal games. Eventually some updates became only about dota and we have the same shit here with dow. It's the perfect comparison since history is repeating itself.

You could call it the hero siege of DoW but the comparison falls flat since hero siege never got that popular.
It's not about the mechanics, it's about what one custom mode does to a game once it gets too big.
Does this explanation calm your autism ? Or are you still getting hung up on words and direct definitions?

If someone was to make an account on their forums and complain about their game for being a moba, nobody would take him seriously since nobody would understand the comparison. They'd point out to all the elements both types of game do not share and wonder just what the fuck is this guy talking about.

Now, if you compare it to musou for instance, or just call it a shitty RTS, which is what it actually is, you can point to each individual point and have people actually understand your concerns and what you believe to be the problem.

The first step in being right is not being wrong and calling Last Stand a moba-like would dismiss any and all discussion when what's needed is to explain to them that a lot of people stopped playing the game, they didn't shift to LS because they though it was good.

Also, your comparison is shit anyway. Blizzard themselves never released a single update for Warcraft 3 specifically for Dota itself, they never acknowledged the game even existed and actually despised it for surpassing the base game in popularity, all the way to Dota 2 where they made HotS as revenge.
Threeway also kinda killed Quake by atracting a large percentage of it's userbase and every next iteraction after it (from Quake Fortress to Team Fortress to Overwatch) and yet you aren't using that as an example either.
Nor are you using WoW as an example either, despite that game also fucking up several other MMOs.

Don't. Fucking. Mis-use. Words.

You are completely wrong on this.
Shortly before dota2 came out blizzard released a patch(1.25b) where they specifically changed an issue with Lycan and similar transformations in dota. It was related to hex and durations of the transformation.
Then came 1.26 where they reverted it and and the entire patch was only that, a fix to a previous one and only about dota.

This was at a time where warcraft had updates very very rearely. It was between dead or dying back then

Additionally in patch 1.22 you have:
You should be aware of these things before you say dota had no support. Yes they didn't actively support the community with big money tournaments like they tried and failed with HotS but they did change some stuff.

Quake and Musou examples are from completely different genres so they don't make much sense to bring up to an RTS discussion.

I'm not trying to appeal to the masses on some forum or talkshow. I'm talking here where I believe people know this shit.
Evidently you don't, but do try and see what actually happened.

Prove to me that I'm not wasting my time and that you now understand the relevance of the dota comparison. Not for the mechanics or towers but for what happened with wc3 through dota.

Similarly when you talk to someone about a traitor and your friend calls him *Juda/Judas* he evidently won't be referring to Judas Iscariot's acts as an apostle or his work as one. He would be referring specifically to the betrayal and would have no other intent for the use of the name or historic figure.

I dont have numebrs, just open dow2 and see for yourself

I know what im talking about. This changes are made to attract the moba audience with elements they're familiar with

It is not a moba like the others on the market but it has lamost every element mobas have and for a good reason

I have dow2 but not last stand. And steamspy wouldn't separate them by player numbers.Someone who actually owns it could check.

They sell it separated now? Well fuck it im not gonna install it just for this, you'll have to trust a stranger on the internet

That path seems to be about a single ability that was in the base game anyway. Hardly counts as support for Dota. If the only concrete example you have are sound effects, that's quite retarded.

As are MOBAS, considering DoW is an RTS and yet it's still used by you fags.
What was your point? That the comparison was apt because of the effect one game had in one genre? Then Threeway and WoW are apt examples as well, since they had the same effect.

If you knew your shit, you'd know MOBAs have intrisic flaws in their design that were never adressed properly in the multitude of iterations they have and that's what makes them shit. However, neither of those flaws is seen or even present in either Last Stand or DoW3, those games have other flaws of their own.
The comparison is incredibly retarded because it's apples with oranges but you're going with "well, they are both fruits so it counts".

Again, if it's the effects it had in it's genre, than Wow and Threeway would be apt comparisons.
If it's the shallow gameplay and tactics over flashiness, then musou or shitty RTS games are more apt comparisons.

Face it, you know moba's are shit and unpopular so you'll tag everything you dislike, rightly or not, to them for an easy "argument". Instead of detailing everything wrong with DoW3, it's easier to just say "it's a moba" even if that's not true.

It does not have an economy that revoles around farming (you don't even know how the resources are gained, for fuck's sake) it does not have pre built bases, it does not have minions controlled by an AI instead of you, it does not have jungles or lanes, it does not have towers in the middle of the field, it does not have any of the dynamics that make mobas what they are.

Most of the characterisitcs you've stated easily apply to a plethora of other games that have nothing to do with mobas either. Musous have health bars on top of every unit and huge ones on top of generals, flashy colors everywhere and leaps all the time with spammable moves.

Nobody that plays any moba cares much about how flashy he looks or spamming abilities, it's the flow of the game, the rate at which they farm and stupid shit like denying that occupys their heads and you'll find none of this here.

If it's a moba, it's one of the worst there is and will find no fans among moba players.

someone explain to me how the clip in OP's post shows DoW3 being a MOBA. I don't play MOBAs so I have no real idea what does or doesn't constitute one, other than lanes, heroes and weak mobs, but what exactly about this makes it one? This looks like standard RTS fare to me.

i one of thoses who really like the last stand when it was still difficult and balanced (so just mekboy/farseer/and captain)
however if a dev was retarded enouth to think that DoW 3 should become like the last stand : FUCK NO!
the last stand was a nice survival mode and THATS IT: a MOD. sure go on and make a full game with more maps and hero type but DO NOT CALL IT DOWN OF WAR !

Dawn of war should stay and RTS
they had one job: make DoW 1 with Dow2 graphics or better (DoW1 hero unit already had stills)
Are all thoses move normal one for a w40k game ? sure eldar are more about "art" of war but this move seems just stupid …

also what the fuck is wrong withmacha face ?
did they just made a female version of Solas from DA:inquisition?
for fuck sake !

You cannot seem to grasp the relevance of this patch:

1.26 is the final patch warcraft got in 2013
Blizzard stopped releasing regular patches after that for 3 years
And anyway dota 2 came soon after.
It would be 3 years until the next patch, made out of pity and to improve their image in 2016.

And note that I did not say MOBA. I said dota because dota has relevance here and came before the moba term even existed. A term coined by Tencent and LoL players that you repeat so happily.

All of this happens while game is still alive to the point of it's death and the impossibility of bringing it back the way it was.
We have the exact same shit right here, right now on a smaller scale but you are too hung up on people disliking ASSFAGGOTS to acknowledge it.

How does this elude you ?
Half the people don't even know what Musou is. Why even bring it up ?

The over-emphasis on the heroes, up to cartoonish levels. It looks ridiculous.
Heroes in Warhammer are supposed to be strong and memorable units that can change a battle when properly used, but they are not an army on their own nor should they be. However, the trailer shows heroes killing several troops with relative ease, making them look incredibly expendable and useless.

The comparison is stupid since that's pretty much all you have to compare it with a moba, a top-down musou game would be closer to what we are seeing, but nevertheless, it's a stupid decision.
Troops look like cannon fodder that follows you into battle and shoots their guns in background while the actual action happens with your hero against other heroes. Titans here are just another form of heroes as well.

If they actually have you winning Requisition by killing things, especially if that's the only way to gain it, and\or if troops just stand near your hero and follow you around, unable to be commanded, then you can start worrying about it being a moba.

That's the fucking point, they're trying to make a rts with moba heroes which will result on an unplayable abomination

Read: Almost every aspect. Heroes are upgraded by killing units anyway

See it's not a moba by itself, but it takes the most characteristic elements from them to get moba audience

Dota was made by modders and supported by them, the only thing you have there is a small fix to it and some sound effects fixed. If that counts as support, consider your mother supported since I stick my dick in her every now and then.

Meanwhile, Last Stand, if it's the inspiration for DoW3 was done by the devs of the game itself, not a mod by anyone else, and had the exclusive support from them as well.
Compare the support LS had from the original devs to the support Warcraft had from Blizzard and stop being retarded.

And I agree with you, but it's still not a moba. Arguably, that's why it will fail so hard. It won't appeal to moba fans because it's not one but it won't appeal to RTS fans either because it's a very crappy RTS.

Is this confirmed anywhere? Because that does change things a bit, depending on what kind of upgrades we are talking about here.

No shop, no gold, no farm, no lanes, no junglem no ganks, no snowballing after a long farm, etc.
Flashy characters and abiltiies are not the "most characteristic elements" of mobas.

I am right.
Stay triggered.

And that's all that matters, lets stop this nonsense discussion

That's how it worked on dow2, that's how it works on all mobas. Im just guessing

You are dumb as a brick. I could hit you with history directly from RTS and you would dismiss it to bring up other genres into this, just because you played them more.
You call the last official patch of a dying game containing 1 single change total, where before they would address 20 or above issues irrelevant.
I could dig more into patches for dota specific cases but the effort is genuinely wasted on the likes of you. You are so hung up on words you cannot see what people mean with them.

Kill yourself before you buy this piece of crap and continue the ASSFAGGOTIZATION of RTS that you are so blind to.

Maybe in LS (that I never tried because YARR) but at least Skirmish was just buying the upgrades after you could tech into them.
And resources came from the points, killing units didn't gave you shit.
Let's hope they stick to that.

I'm sure there's a dumb person here, I'm just not sure you know who that person is.

Keep labeling everything you don't like as ASSFAGGOTS. Pretty soon, just like cuck, shill and other buzzwords, it's gonna lose all meaning and will stand only for "thing I don't like". Go ahead and kill your own terms, you deserve it after so much buzzword spewing.

Blizzard thought so too.
Nu-relic did the same shit. Their last content update is for last stand specifically. The community are the ones working on elite mod and adding shit to the base game, that is abandoned by nu-relic.

Keep being so defensive to anything bad about ASSFAGGOTS. A genre that brought only ruin to RTS.

oh i get it, you post the cyclops when youre desperate

...

Is Relic working on content or doing patches for the Elite mod? Well there goes your comparison down the drain.

I'm defensive about people who are too lazy to properly discuss videogames that think they made a well though and informed argument when they say "it's bad because it's assfaggots"

Assfaggots are shit, I've said that often, but they are shit for their own reasons (which, if I asked you to list, you'd fail to do so, you just heard they are bad for some reason).

DoW3 is looking bad already and could even be worse but for a plethora of other reasons that have nothing to do with it. Arguing otherwise is being intelectually lazy, flashy abilities are not exclusive to mobas. You want a more well known genre, let's call it a Diablo-clone. Like Torchlight, for instance, that also had pretty flashy abilities and a hero followed by minions (depending on your build) casually dispatching minions after minions.
Is Torchlight a moba too? Is Diablo or any other dungeon crawler a moba too?

You're the one too stupid to actually have a discussion about this, you make bad comparisons between completely unrelated things in an attemp to save face, which I really don't get the point when you're avatarfagging as a Cyclops.
At least do it with cute anime girls so there's something good to look at in your post.

Or is this some kind of meta avatarfagging, where you keep pretending to be pretty knowledgable and inteligent while presenting yourself as a dumb short-sighted beast that lacks depth perception?
If that's the case, DoW3 is the game to you since it also looks horrible, has no depth, was made for dumb people and the dev team is clearly only thinking short term.

You keep talking generally about mobas turrets, mechanics etc.

I'm only talking of dota and what it did to wc3. I'm bringing you patch info. I'm relating the last patch of wc3 to the last update of dow2. You keep ignoring the similarity and direction of those patches.
You ignore the direction both companies are taking their products into shortly after said patches.
You keep bringing up several lazier moba comparisons which other people did in this thread but you attribute to me.
You bing up unrelated genres for the third time but call my comparisons bad when I'm showing you the events unfolding piece by piece before and now.
The moba comparions triggers you incredibly and you lash out, yet you don't lash out to the league of legends tier skills that we get in dow3.
You take words by their definitions and ignore context.
You shit on cyclops-es.

The cyclops with the rock has a deeper understanding of human speech than you.

you argue like a jew you know that? you like tossing completely irrelevant and emotional shit in there with whatever point youre trying to make

Emotional ? Final 2 patches for a game before it dies with dates and content is emotional as opposed to:

I love watching Holla Forums get butthurt over nothing.

how about be less retarded

Inb4 most of you forgot or don't even know this is the only update dow2 got for years.
Inb4 the company decision to do so is lost on you.

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Inb4 the community manager and dev team bragging about playing and marketing this is also new info to you that is somehow irrelevant to dow3.

all that means is they have as much brain damage as you do. back in the day we called it "rpg elements"

I want to fucking die
I love vidya as much as I hate it, it has broken me.

It reminds me of something, but I can't quite place it.

It does feel strongly familiar though.

I wonder if the art direction will affect how successful the game will turn out.

I mean, making everything flashy, glowing and look like a cheap plastic toy never failed anyone, never put a final nail in a coffin of a series.

:^)

Well this will be of use on future threads instead of wasting an hour discussing what the devs are obviously doing

PURGE WITH PLASMA
FIST
AND SHELL!

BRING CLEANSING FIRE'S RIGHTEOUS BREATH!

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How

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I imagine they want to make every unit spam special abilities instead of shooting their guns. You know, like they do on mobas
But it's not a moba

Still triggered at Yuri calling your "religion" a Marxist trick, are you?

Easy. When there's lots of strategy, it takes up all the stragegy space. By removing every bit of strategy, the strategy space expands.
Now you have a large strategy space to fill with your imagination.

Something Like "Man, if this game had proper units, I would use them"

This gives you == LITERALLY INFINITE POSSIBILITIES ==

:^)

hes almost as retarded as you are. at least he didnt call an rts game a moba

That's wrong. In dotalikes you actually have to conserve your abilities for crucial times and most of the time is spent autoattacking. That said, those two genres should never mix. Even though it spawned from a mod.