Nipponese Learning Thread: Copypasta Edition

As far as learning Hiragana I've having problems with さ し す せ そ. I don't know why. I know exactly what あ through こ is without too much thought. but the S sounding characters are giving me problems.

I'm learning Chinese.

You can't fool me, baka. It's scientifically proven that Japanese cannot be learned.

Repeat until you can do all rows with > 90% accuracy. Make sure to do a minimum of 100 per row(around 900 in the end when you've added in や　ゆ　よ　わ　ん). After that you should be fine. If you still have trouble use the hiragana anki decks. Don't worry too much about the ざ　じ　ず　ぜ　ぞ.

すし

Is it ever acceptable to do this? Because like…technically it still says sushi.

Does anyone have that one screencap

Which one?

wow lots of language cucks in here haha

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Yeah, don't know why so many people keep letting themselves get cucked into only knowing English just because of Bobby Kotick's shitposting. It's like they don't even like video games.

Yeah I just powered through it and I'm doing a bit better now I think part of the problem is me taking breaks. Two characters I'm having problems with when they appear next to each other is definitely こ and そ but that's mostly because of the style of the font I'm using. I have problems with the default style too because it has open spaces in characters like さ and き.

Forget everything I said. The last font choice in the options of realkana fixes everything I just said I had a problem with.

あら！あら！

For children or foreigners perhaps, but if you are an adult Japanese not knowing the kanji will make you look like an uneducated faggot.

Hell, they're surprised when foreigners can write kana despite knowing said foreigners have studied Japanese for over a decade. They'll be impressed by you being able to read those kana I'm sure.

Most fluent foreigners (and a large chunk of natives) are ワープロ馬鹿. That's why it's impressive.

There's a loss in that image somewhere

I've never taken this as seriously as you weebs appear to, but I should recommend Jump! Ultimate Stars for the DS for this purpose. It's a fighting game based on manga characters, and you build a "deck" (page of manga) using panels from other manga (all Shonen Jump). And only through playing this game for hundreds of hours did I incidentally learn some of the Japanese hiragana and katakana just through navigating menus and sorting through the over 800 koma. I had a guide (use the one from GFaqs) to get through the story mode to unlock stuff, and friends with copies to play against. It's actually a very fun fighting game with a lot of customizability. I wonder if anyone ever got around to spoofing the DS's online multiplayer capabilities. I'd love to have a tunnel for it.

I wish I had the morale to do the same

I lost said morale.
Cause you know, learning any European language is fucking easy compared to Japanese.
You learn basic vocabulary, grammar and read a bit => nearly fluent in a year if you learn everyday.

Japanese? Grind your anki deck for years + reading practice to be somewhat able to read shit.

We are talking about 10000 words you can't fucking read unless you learned them due to kanji being so fucking retarded, every kanji has at least 2 ways of reading but you often encounter shit with up to 5-10 readings and you don't know how to pronounce it unless you know the word.

Meanwhile in french you read the word you don't know, check the meaning bam that's it.

It's not like you can do absolutely nothing else during the time you're studying user~

Perhaps, but what's the point? Europeans don't make video games worth shit anymore, and even when they did it was primarily Rare, who were English anyway. They're not really comparable in the slightest.

I started learning literally two weeks ago, been actually taking classes.
When do I learn kanji? It seems complex as fuck. If people can understand each other with hiragana why bother with kanji?

I know european languages are useless, I was just saying they are way easier than fucking Japanese.

English has spaces between words so you know where one ends and the next starts. Japanese doesn't.

You ever tried to read a 3 line sentence with no kanji? Shit's literally incomprehensible

Wouldn't it be easier to invent the space instead of learning thousands of unique symbols with multiple meanings?

Yes but Japanese people are literally retarded chinks that are like "but muh culture"

Have fun with your bootleg games.

Even when they do use spaces it's still a pain in the ass to read text without kanji.

And how will that help you play better video games or watch better cartoons?

To the gay in the last thread bitching about katakana so and n cuz it died and I couldn't respond:

The confusion really only arises because you can't tell the stroke direction with computer fonts. The rightmost bit is written in different directions with ソ and ン, one in up and to the right, the other is down and to the left but i forget which is which now, look it up. When written, unless it's some serious chicken scratch shit, it tends to be more clear.

Also, this becomes a non-issue with the more Japanese you know. Because 1. context. You will see a word, and even if you can't tell the difference as it's written, with "ん” it'll make an existing word that fits into the sentence, and with "そ", it won't, or vice-versa (9 times out of 10). And 2. with native-level familiarity with written Japanese, especially handwritten and all the difference ways people write, you'll never mix the two up. So don't be so quick to say "ugh fuck this gay language these two characters are too similar I'll never be able to tell them apart."

No. Here's why.
成功 - pronounced seikou, means success.
性向 - pronounced seikou, means steel manufacturing.
性交 - pronounced seikou, means sex.
The Japanese language has tons of homonyms, and kanji serve to instantly distinguish among them. "Just use context to do that!" What if you were writing a report about how you succeeded in discovering a more efficient way to manufacture steel? When you reach a certain proficiency level, you'll hate trying to read anything without kanji.

Fug, wrong kanji on steel manufacture. This is it: 製鋼. Incidentally, those mistaken kanji are also pronounced seikou.

This basically. Everything makes sense in context.

Also, don't whinge about katakana. Shit is fantastic at making moon more readable.

This guy Can't though.

Obviously. I'm the N1/immersion user. The key is to both relax and accept that it will take a few years while also putting in as much effort as possible every day.

Do kanji ever begin to 'make sense', or is it really just a case of learning to remember the anciennt chinese emoji and their various readings?

They "make sense" as part of a greater whole. A single kanji will generally never really "mean" anything, as in, kanji A's literal meaning + kanji B's literal meaning as written as word "AB" makes perfect fucking sense as "concept A + B". But rather, "Kanji A 'means' a few different things, as does kanji B, but used together they always mean C." You just need to get used to it. English has N 10's of thousands of words, so does Japanese. There's not really any trick to it.

Think about a word like "draw" which has multiple meanings. It can mean creating a picture, it can mean to pull or remove something, and it can refer to an end of a competition that is neither a win nor a loss. It's really three different words that all happen to be spelled and pronounced the same way, in a sense. You can tell which one is which NOW, but when you first encountered a use of "draw" you hadn't before, you were probably confused as fuck.

Now on the other hand, let's look at 「しん」 which can refer to something new, something true, or something divine. Which one is it? Depends - is it 「新」 or　「真」 or　「神」?

It's not 100% necessary, since obviously you can't use kanji when speaking, and context does help… but goddamn kanji makes shit so much easier to understand a lot of times.

Fair enough. Just remember, it's often the things that take effort that are worth doing.>If people can understand each other with hiragana why bother with kanji?

バンプ～

So I'm nearing the end of Katakana and should be at about 95% recognition for both Hiragana and Katakana soon. I've read the guide but I'm sort of lost on how I should proceed without overwhelming/causing confusion from the method of learning.

Should I dive into basic grammar and complete that after having the Kanas down? Or should I be mixing that with vocab?

While doing vocab also, should I be using something like Remember the Kanji/Kanji Damage in tandem with Anki? Are you supposed to basically create mnemonics using either of the two resources while learning the terms/pronunciation with Anki?

Thanks in advance for any bullying/advice I'm determined to learn this language no matter what.

And if your are done with grammar or still have time left try reading stuff.

What I'm unsure about with Anki is that it appears it is just learning through 100% repetition not using mnemonics or radicals like I've heard others say are the best ways to learn Kanji. How is it possible to drill all that into your head with 2000 different terms via just essentially brute force without burning out or getting confused?

If you've seen it a hundred times you don't forget it and instantly recognize it elsewhere if you do it right.

For example, I did anki for 6 months and when I started reading, words I never saw outside of anki just appeared in my head while reading.
It's like when you are a kid and hear the same words all day and see the same letters you are going to remember them eventually.

It's just faster and doesn't take that much effort to review a few words everyday imo.

This may happen however, cause some kanji really look almost identical or if 2 words are written the same but mean different things.

Do Anki for vocab. Starting kanji can be overwhelming so I would give it ~1 week and see if how you're doing. If just doing kanji is hard on you there's no harm in putting off grammar.

I personally couldn't use mnemonics to learn 10 kana, I couldn't imagine doing 2k or 6k kanji with it. I do recommend learning the radicals though. You won't end up thinking 「安い」 is roof + women. It's just too slow. It will help you differentiate kanji though. By getting familiar with radicals you'll stop looking at each kanji as a mess of lines and begin to see an order. That will help your retention rate greatly.
If its too much for you just quit. No one cares.

Someone in the previous thread said that learning radicals was a waste of time. Why do you think that this isn't the case? Granted, that other faggot didn't take the time to explain his position, either, so I'm already inclined to believe that learning radicals would be a beneficial, if not outright necessary, prerequisite to kanji.

It promotes faster recognition of kanji you know, as well as makes it easier to identify unfamiliar kanji. For example, in 「似ている」 the 「似」 can easily look like a garbled mess. If you do core 6k it doesn't look similar to anything else you'll have seen by that point. If you know radicals you'll be able to see it as something other than that garbled mess. I can't even name all the radicals it has in it, but it doesn't matter. On some instinctive level you'll understand you've seen its parts before and can construct a more solid image of it in your mind.

Of course, it's not necessary to learn radicals to learn kanji. It will help though.

Look son, every single day there is someone telling us that he learned kana, like he was some hot shit even though it's fucking nothing, like not even 1% of the fucking language.

They usually ask what they are supposed to do next, cause "they are lost" or "overwhelmed".
The thing is, even if I write a wall of text, some people disagree with my opinion and my method of learning and do something else.

And even if they don't, most people give up very soon so yeah, wasted effort on my end, also I don't want to repeat myself if you get called a faggot anyway.

I can't think of a more effective way of learning it. If you ignore the radicals then you have to treat each kanji as its own individual thing, which sounds much harder.

For example, look at this mess 鬱. How the fuck are you supposed to remember this without learning the individual parts it's made up of?

Pretty easily, unless you're wanting to write it.

Well clearly I was acting like I completely know everything and mastered the entire Japanese language because I've been only learning Hiragana and Katakana. The fact that you got so upset over some simple questions asking for clarification and turning it into that I was acting like some smug fuck thinking he's all is pretty sad.

With that attitude of "oh well they're gonna give up anyway so I'll just be a dickhead" makes me kinda wonder no shit people give up with your attitude. If I was acting like a total smug fuck and disregarding entirely any advice or input, then go ahead and bitch about me.

Good give up while you can, you can't learn Japanese.

It's basically the problem any long running thread for any topic has where the same questions get asked over and over and people get sick of hearing them.

Stop keeping this forced meme alive.

To be fair all this shit is covered in the guide.

Not happening faggot

Good luck.

一緒に出来なくなろう

That just makes it sound like someone's bizarre corruption fetish

You can't learn Japanese.

b u m p
Are you learning Nipponese, anons? I'm partway through Katakana myself. I hope to be sufficient at recognizing the kana by the end of October. Will move on to grammar/Kanji radicals.

I'm having fun. Don't give up, faggots.

Kana is the easiest shit in the world to learn. Wow you've almost memorised like 50 characters, here have a star.

I really want to learn the Nip language, but sadly I'm a useless NEET who is allergic to studying. But there is nothing inherently difficulty about learning Japanese, all it comes to is spending a shit ton of time memorising stuff.

Well, it's not like I'm bragging or anything.
So get to it. Don't procrastinate. You only have yourself to blame at this point, you have an abundance of time and all of the resources are freely available to you.

You CAN learn Japanese.

I'm focusing on language too,
Something that helps:

FULL IMMERSION

Watch nippon tv, listen to nippon radio, songs, all of it. Go full weeb when at home and if you're a NEET like me it means that you won't hear english much and thus you'll become more attuned to it.

So am I, but I taught myself enough to easily play games. Granted it took years, but it's a worthwhile investment in the end.

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バンプ～

Is the fire blast symbol a kanji character? What's it mean?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_death

Big. It's a reference to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gozan_no_Okuribi

here's a dying language
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jemez_language
Not like anyone cares aside of linguists, but it's a great example of a language that won't be around much longer.
you don't give a shit either cause you're just baiting but fuck it

It's some kind of religious ceremony, or is it just a tradition that they cling to for the sake of tradition?

Pretty much any religious ceremony is just tradition here. No one actually believes in anything for the most part.

This phenomenon where forums for learners of some skill, usually languages, art, or computer programming, become cancerous because older, higher-skilled members burn out and leave over being asked the same low-effort questions (almost always addressed in the FAQ), not being respected or deferred to properly ("lol don't listen to ExpertProfessional86, he doesn't know what he's talking about here's the quick and dirty way to get the same results trust me I saw a youtube video and totally…"), etc. etc. resulting in the community becoming the blind leading the blind, is very well documented but I'm having trouble finding what its called now. Someone let me know if you know what I'm talking about.

Where do I find nips to talk to? Skypech is full of リア充

I dunno fampai, Hellotalk is full with normalfags as well.

whoa, m-maybe I can!

I've been chatting with people over playing free to play tentacle hentai games

Tentacle games with chat function or do the two not have anything to do with each other?

is that loss

I get the distinct feeling this is a regular question around here, but just wondering, is Japanese a useful language outside of games and whatnot? Could be because I'm halfway through a bottle of Tullamore Dew, but I'm a lot more receptive to the idea of learning nipponese

How often do you masturbate?

What, is their masturbatory aid better?

well you can always impress some weeb girl at a con if you are lucky. does not guarantee sex tho

I feel as if I'm below even the standards of some weeb girl (despite the fact the last couple of girls I had anything to do with were weebs and I am a heavily closeted one. What the fuck, if nothing else, it's a good thing to have on my resume

Yeah.

They got a pretty prolific /lit/erature scene.

Also I guess they're one of the top economies and shit at english if you care about that gay shit.

I am going into the PR side of business, so that could potentially be a plus. Fuck it, I'll do it

Heaps of imouto lewd, you are missing out on. You don't know until you visit a Tokyo adult games store!

One more soul to the call

Not a chat function per se, but there's an in-game messaging system that I use to talk to people there. Had a pretty long conversation the other night with a salaryman in the eastern half of the country.

Living in Japan is pretty great, much better quality of life than you get in the States as long as you're not in any place too urban like Tokyo or too rural like Wakayama.

I'm in Canada, so I feel as if my quality of life is already higher than the states except for the stupidly cheap price of alcohol there like Jesus Christ its overprices here , but I just want to broaden my horizons. I'm just shopping around to see if the guides here are the best way. Not that I don't trust you wonderful faggots, just that I want to make sure I'm doing it the best way

Yeah, can't say myself, I learned from a mixture of school and self-teaching by bashing my head into video games and the like.

lmao

Hello, moonophones, /agdg/ here. I have a question.

For reasons, I need a Japanese subtitle to my game. I believe I have one picked out, but I need the input of someone who actually reads Japanese. Can you tell me how you would read this if you encountered it out in the wild?

Probably "uraden"

Are you trying to make an undertale joke?

This is what I was going for.

This is what I was concerned about. It's a reference to a much older game, but everyone and their grandma is going to think it's an Undertale reference. It's a multi-layered pun, which is a callback to other terms and puns within the series, involving 裏 and 電子計算機. It's a side-story, so I thought combining it with 外伝, containing "den," as the other puns do, would be appropriate.The desired meaning was "Under Story," or more ideally "Side-story about The Under" but I didn't know if it would actually wind up being understood that way by someone who speaks Japanese.

I may have to drop it and just go with 外伝, since Undertale is so pervasive, and I don't want the association.

Not vidya

If it's clear in context of the series I would say go for it, but if not, stick with Gaiden. No idea what Undertale is, so can't speak on how that relates.

Seriously don't do this.

Have you been on the internet in the last year? It's terrible. The fallout of it is. The game itself is mostly okay.

I knew it was a long shot when I thought of it. That's why I asked here.

バンプ～

stop sageing you bakas

I live on the Internet, never heard of this thing.

I sageru when it's appropriate tu. My posts no longer had anything to do with the thread, so it didn't warrant bumping it.

bampu.

Way to kill threads that always keep dying anyway.

it's 上げ　you fuck.
あげ　and さげ

calm down bro

Anyone know where I can grab Japanese 3DS VC injects?

Looking for Dragon Quest I+II and Dragon Quest 3. At this point, either GBC or SNES is fine.

So im reaching for two hundred kanji at the end of this month, and ive been seeing that although necessary for writing you dont need to know every kanji ever. With how many Kanji can you ensemble a proper dialogue? I just want to bang a nip, not enter japanese college

get out

Kanji are just for writing, not speaking. That said, most literate Japanese know about 2000 kanji.

Don't.

Speaking Japanese or not doesn't matter cause no girls will date neckbeards like you.

Wrong you fucking idiot.

OK. How many do they know then?

The around 2000 常用漢字 are as written, kanji for use in daily life. They learn them up through high-school but it doesn't end there. I'd guess the average college-educated person or even people who just read on occasion would probably be able to recognize around 3000.

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Fair enough, I was thinking of the number that was considered the standard for literacy, that's a good point.

Speaking of which, are there any Nip boards that actually have images like 8ch? I've browsed 2ch a few times, but I'm not really a fan of the all text format.

well you can watch san guo unsubbed for what it's worth

2chan/ふたばちゃん

Damn that board software is old. Also it seems that either you can't directly reply to other posters, or the nips just don't use that feature. They just use quote arrows.

Not vidya

Not even dubs. 可哀想

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Why do we have 2 guides in the OP?
Why do we have 2 old guides stolen from halfchans /djt/?

The guide is as shit as halfchan, the structure is bad and it lacks possible learning resources as well.
We are on the video game board, we are learning Japanese mainly for vidya and yet there is no list for beginner video games.

Also there are Japanese learning videos on youtube that are actually good, not meme shit like namasensei that are nowhere to be found in the guide.

One very important thing is also entirely missing, the problem with ankidroid using Chinese kanji rather than Japanese ones.
There is no solution to be found anywhere, even worse it's not even been mentioned anywhere.

I think we need to work on these issues.

what r the benefits of learning japanese

Don't you want to understand the intricate plots of your favorite hentai?

tbh I've never even looked at the guides in the OP

Bullying

Being able to read the video games you play

Making a different guide would be pretty time consuming and I'm not sure too many people in the thread really have the knowledge to create a proper guide as they're still learners themselves. Whoever makes threads probably just copy pastes from prior threads so that's maybe why the guide isn't updated I'd guess.

I think the guide is mostly fine personally. If there's good resources it doesn't include, you can try suggesting them to the creator and they may add them.

I don't think this is too big of a deal. Japanese sometimes use some of those variants of kanji too so it doesn't hurt to learn to recognize them. So long as people do know it's Chinese unicode. You can try Googling about JP/CH unicodes on android and you might find a solution though.

Yeah I guess you are right.
I guess there aren't that many people learning considering the thread struggles to even hit bump limit.

We have been hitting it pretty often lately.

Quality of posts is more important than quantity. Also there's not much to talk about, really, unless you want some advice or a word translated for you. I have been doing this thing for about three weeks now, and I haven't had any real trouble. Perhaps I will have more to discuss after I dive into kanji/grammar. Not to make everything about myself, I just want to point out that most people probably don't really have much to report in terms of their progress.

What would you like to talk about, user?

Dunno would just like to share my experience or do some nip learning related smalltalk.
We could learn a thing or two from each other don't you think?

I've been at it for 1 year now and while I'm making progress learning all by myself everyday is getting depressing.

I just want someone to talk ;_;

What's there to talk about?

I feel like we could use a discord group, tbh.

I've been learning for about a year and a half - I'm sure others are around the same, now. It might be good to exchange ideas for games to play. Maybe have something like a book club, but with import games.

If you have something to say then just say it. I don't have much to talk about since I am pretty much done learning and just play nip games for practice now, but I always hang around the threads to keep them alive and help you guys.

Is the particle で just the adverbial form of the copula? If so, is there any time when one would use its polite form (でありまして); for example, would "伯父貴の家でありまして煩い付きました" be a polite way to say that one became sick at one's uncle's house?

Alright niggers I'll start playing this bad boy here.

Already found a fitting name for my character.

Are there even any lolis in that game? I forget.

The wind chick in 2

Golden Sun 1, not that i remember but the girl was good waifu material

Speaking of which, during studies I noticed that　好　consists of　女　and　子. Coincidence? Either way it helps me remember it easily.

Impossible!

That is exactly how my teacher taught us to remember it what they didn't teach us was to remember 姦 as three women

Are there actually any games worth learning nipponese for or is it just JRPG and Visual Novel shit?

If you don't like JRPGs and VNs then don't bother.

Pretty much everything worth playing is Japanese at this point, other than the oddball indie title like Shantae or Shovel Knight.

Be sure to compare the English script and see just how badly NoA fucked it up.

They turned single words into entire paragraphs at points.

Damn the lack of Kanji makes it hard for me to read this for some reason.

It has some kanji, but I think the best games to practice with are PS1 era and beyond, since they have the higher resolution needed to display complex kanji.

Meh, I've seen worse. hardly a big deal.

Every time I try to speak anything in a third language, I end up throwing in words from the second. It's like my brain has "English" and "not English" sections for speech. It doesn't happen for writing, just speaking. Drives me nuts.

You can create really cool backlogs.

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Sex is pretty overrated.
It's not worth it. Don't get me wrong, the human body can be a work of art and poetry in motion, but the potential risks and disadvantages outweigh the potential benefits.
says a lot more about the person making such implications than it does about anyone such implications are flung at

It would not. で came from にて which is the に (case-marker) and て (conjunctive) particles together. You may see にて still used sometimes in written language or formal settings.

I'm going for "got sick while at" rather than just "got sick at" with this. おじ（さん）の家にいた（時に／間に）病気になりました。

でありまして is the ます + て form of である.

Japanese scripts are generally more bland than their western counterparts. That said, the English ones go overboard and make everyone a faggot.

If Japanese's script is derivative of Chinese, why do Japanese words tend to be a combination of the pre-existing Chinese characters and a Hiragana ending, when the Kanji therein already have an entirely contained meaning? Why is 使う used rather than simply 使? Why are only つ and か contained within 使? Is it so different tenses/conjugations/etc can modify the ending?

Is this explained and something I simply haven't reached yet?

Do the nip scripts use tone indicators that don't translate well? Not to mention the whole politeness thing

They had a distinct language, but lacked their own writing system until the Heian period (794–1185).
Most official Japanese documents before that were written by bilingual chinese/koreans.
Kanji just filled a hole.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji

This sounds all like a good reason to learn Japanese.

It's less that they're bland and more that the nuances don't translate well, and you end up using the same words to translate different terms rather often. The same goes in reverse too.

Not vidya

An hour a day is not a lot of time.
Consider stretching your neck via strong rope attached to the ceiling.

Could you please help me to understand.

About Kanji, is doing isolated Kanji study worth it?
I feel like you need to do that or you can't read Jukugo words, but on the other hand how many are there even and how do you even start learning Kanji by themselves?

I heard Kanji usually use their most common onyomi and kunyomi 90-95% of the time, is that correct?
I'm asking because I encountered Kanji with like 10 readings and several meanings and stuff that didn't make sense to me.

Like I learn 雪　Kunyomi: ゆき / Onyomi: セツ okay so far so good and then I encounter 雪崩　and ask myself why I bother with that shit if it is using a different reading anyway.

But then again it should be incredibly useful if you can recognize and reproduce at least the Jōyō kanji just in case don't you think?

I still have no idea why I started to learn this language
send help ;_;

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Don't learn the individual kanji readings, learn their meanings and how to write them at most. When you study enough vocab you will understand how to read most words instinctively.

You really shouldn't be spending that much time reviewing, that's a surefire way of burning out. I don't recommend spending more than 60 mins a day.

My reps got piled up over the last week as life got in the way.

Is there a recommend audio course out there? Been using the michel thomas method but it seems to be very basic/polite sentence structures so far.

Non-weeb here. Do any of you guys ever find Japanese hard to listen to when you're watching/playing your Japanese animes/video games? Do you find it harder to listen to depending on your ability to follow what people are saying?

Yes, it's more difficult while starting. I don't know much vocabulary at all, so it's a bitch having to look up so many words, and game progress is a lot slower. I don't know enough to listen effectively yet, so I mostly can't make a judgement about spoken dialogue.

Instead of learning all these rules for conjugation, is it not simpler to just learn them as actual words? I think that would be a faster method instead of trying to work out which conjugation I need to do. Any anons have any experience of this concept?

I wouldn't do it for most of them. Many conjugation forms are easy so it's better to do it on the fly to get used to it.

However I think memorizing the te form would be useful, seeing as the conjugation rules will be tricky for beginners. You don't want to have to repeat a mnemonic every time you want to use it. Eventually you'll get a sense of correctness from feel so it's not necessary in the long run, but it sure can't hurt.

Switching your android system language to Japanese fixes the Chinese kanji display in AnkiDroid. Think this is worth adding to the OP or something? Not sure if this suggestion has been posted before.

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Problem?

This is so true it's scary. Even if you want to learn a language for profit, just stay the fuck away from China and Chinese language. My father is an urban planner who has had a lot of work there, and he has said nothing but bad things.

Video games

Video games?

ゲームがない

All the video games

Any recommendations for someone who's completely clueless as to how you learn a language online and with only a bit of time on his hands? What's the best way to start?

By reading the guide. If you can't spend 5 minutes to read the guide you'll never learn Japanese.

That's a given of course, I'm talking about any extras that would help me after reading it

Yes. Doing what it says.

If you have no suggestions just say so, I'm currently doing what it says. Still, is hiragana and katakana just memorizing each rune? It's somewhat disheartening to see how similar they are to each other

Some phones especially samsung don't have Japanese installed, so you need to add the font manually.

...

Yeah its really easy to do. First on your computer actually set the font for the cards the way you want it. Put the required fonts into your collection.media folder and sync to your Android. Then on your Android make a folder called fonts in the Ankidroid folder. Copy and paste the fonts from collection.media into the new fonts folder

I know, I did just that.
The question is, can you even edit the OP since it is not made by us?

It needs a lot of time and energy to learn Japanese.

If you rly want to do it do the following

That's the fastest way I know.

why is their "alphabet" so fucking retarded and overcomplicated? why wont they just start using superion latin like every sane country on earth?

As long as it's just memorizing the runes I won't have that much trouble
Now that's scary
Guess I'll keep it till I'm able to neet around for a year
And the guide made it sound like it was one of the first things to do
I'll eventually learn Japanese if the world doesn't go to hell in a few years, though it's not the best time to start right now. Might as well master hira and kata so I have some sort of previous knowledge

Those instructions were more for the other user I quoted. They have a feedback form that seems to be monitored now, so I just put it there

I've just started studying and I have to say I kind of like the way it's set up. My only issue as a newcomer is what looks like a redundancy to me - the fact that there are like 3 different alphabets with the same sounds but different looking letters. Not sure why it's done like this.

かえる
帰る
変える
返る
換える
替える
買える
代える
All are kaeru in latin. Which one do people mean?

You can start earlier, but he uses some kanji in his sentences and it would be easier to understand if you already know them.

I recommend starting with grammar after 6 month of anki, cause you learned enough words to follow most grammar guides like Tae Kim or Nihongonomori on youtube with that.

Having redundant symbols makes it so you can reuse sounds instead of having a gajillion pronounciationg for the same latin letters. See (checked) (how is "e" pronounced user? Why can C be either a k or an s?) Anyways the Japanese took most of their language from the Chinese but the Chinese language literally needs to make a new "image" each time a concept comes into the language so the Japanese thought that was pretty stupid. Eventually do to some level of extreme prejudice they also developed the katakana vs hiragana system for loan words from other languages. (the same as say, the pinyin system for writing the pronunciation of Chinese words for English).

This is all an oversimplified answer to a person with simplified reasoning capabilities. Due note that Japanese is a more consistent language to speak than right, but it also requires you to be socially aware and there's the abused to death trope of misunderstanding context in Anime. If the listener doesn't know the context bad assumptions can be made. It's a hyper xenophobic language that denotes heavy in-group vs out-group and is convoluted just to punish dirty gaijin

I wonder why you're so mad.

...

Just two, Hiragana and Katakana. By that same token too, why does English have both capital and lower case letters?

You should definitely start grammar early on. It's not particularly hard to learn 5-10 words a day and it won't take very much time to do so either, so you may as well spend some time on grammar as well. Even if you only wanted to do grammar every other day initially while building up some vocabulary it will get you somewhere. It will in fact help you cement those vocabulary into memory to be able to see and understand them in use; learning grammar strengthens your ability to learn the rest of the language by allowing you to use the language. I have to imagine it would very disheartening to spend 6 months and be able to do nothing with it because you don't understand enough grammar to read a basic sentence, so I really wouldn't recommend holding off on it.

t. 童貞

You won't learn anything in an hour a day. Good luck partitioning your time so you can be "in the zone" for 100% of that small amount of time too. Plus if you buy the whole "10000 hours study/practice" to master something, how long are you trying to make this take? 30 years?

Absolutely do not study kanji in isolation. Especially not with mnemonics or other bullshit to remember its "meaning." Protip: no kanji "means" anything. They are used to give meaning to words while at the same time, they derive their "meaning", if they can be said to have any, from which words they're used in, and which position in the word, etc. Study words, and study those in context.

Bullshit. What did you actually learn? Tomorrow spend 174 minutes watching anime without subtitles or conversing with a Japanese person and get back to me.

Funny, I recommend spending every waking minute you're not earning money to survive or sleeping to be hearing, reading, speaking, studying, or otherwise doing Japanese.

Of course it is, retard. Human communication is not perfect, bit-for-bit complete with checksums and error detection like fucking TCP or something. In reality, Japanese people are just half-assedly making some arbitrary sounds at you, which you have to map to your collection of sounds as well as fill in the gaps with context and educated guesses based on experience to attempt to form in your head the ideas they're attempting to convey to you. In other words, it gets easier the better your Japanese is and the more experience you have.

Absofuckinglutely yes. Grammar rulecucks will disagree, but perfect Japanese can be absorbed without every explicitly studying it's grammar. Proof: Japanese children typically do this before entering any kind of formal education.

CAN'T

I mean you shouldn't spend more than that just on Anki reviews. I do recommend playing as many Japanese games as possible.

Oh yeah, 60 minutes is plenty for just flash card reviewing. I sorta skimmed your post in an attempt to address as much faggotry in the thread as I could before just giving up.

ur a fag. A better question is why they didn't copy what the Koreans did when they invented Hangul. A probable answer is that the Koreans did it and nobody wants to be like the Koreans.

thank you anons how do i check dubs in japanese?

(調べた?)

i need a name or a link

It was all over Holla Forums when it came out, but then Mark banned it any discussion of it for a while.

This thread is always here. How new are you?

(調べた)
Start with these and the Google doc in the OP: guidetojapanese.org/
mediafire.com/download/c6219m4xxxixj0x/Genki_1_(user_edit).zip

Didn't they try to integrate romaji after the war but it failed hard?

>guidetojapanese.org/
Should you be going through the complete guide or the grammar guide if it's supplimented with something like anki?

Grammar guide.

Yeah nah, I´m calling bullshit on dat m8. An illiterate nigger speaks 600 words tops on any language. Most advanced students (1000 kanji) can have a decent conversation. By the time you learn 1000 kanji you recognize so much it becomes second nature

I found a new site for those who want to learn a few core words a day. In my experience Katakana is not really necessary to study, since you´ll be using Hiragana 90% of the time. The rest are pretty basic words that you learn to figure out.

mainichi.me/

Also, don´t be discouraged by kangi learning. Some of the more advanced ones are actually translated in japanese to their hiragana counterparts. Has anyone tried song translation? It gives you a pretty good sense in how to ensemble a phrase in japanese, and it´s actually fun. Also, you´ll be the rage at Karaoke

They considered using romaji during the meiji restauration but ultimately decided not to because of all the fucking homophones.

dmm.co.jp/netgame_s/inyouchu-kin/

Not to let shit get in the way of doing reps and that I know 90%~ of my deck.
I was thinking that. Fluency means saying shit without thinking, so why am I adding a few extra layers into the mix. not saying I won't learn how the grammar works, just that I'll be treating everything as words

I'd say 1500 is a better number than 1000 for a decent reading experience, though it entirely depends on the material. But anyway my post had nothing to do with Japanese learners, it was about what I'd guess the average Japanese native can recognize, specifically those who are either college-educated or read casually.

Very much video games.

What is this "deck" that you can go through in a pace of less than 7 seconds per card (174 * 60 / 1502) and maintain it for almost 3 hours?

I'm not sure you understand what I was saying because I sure as shit don't understand your response to it.

You say that like 7 seconds is not enough time to recognize a vocab word.

Why don't you post in /lang/ fam?

what if i spend 1.5 hours a day for nihongo? what will happen?

You might eventually learn nihongo.

Cause everything outside of pol and v is dead.

Core 2k/6k deck.
Basically I poorly explained that I agreed with you.

I did anki and grammar for 6 months and want to start reading manga now, I already read every now and then, but not on a regular basis.

The question is, if I read manga everyday for the next 6 months, will I be able to fluently read manga by then?

I don't want to be able to read a Japanese newspaper (why would I want that).
I don't want to watch anime without subs yet, I can always work on that once I can read.
I don't need to be able to write or speak as I don't plan on living in Japan.

I just want to read manga and easy video games.

Is it likely that I achieve that and are there drawbacks to that method?

That's how I learned fucking english, learn the basics and read simple stuff.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't know what you're reading or how smart you are. If you're looking up every unknown word you come across, OK. You still need to push your limits and learn more and more, since "manga" as a medium covers basically the entire Japanese language. As in, there's magical girl shoujo shit for little girls, and medical/crime drama shit for adults, and everything in between. There's even manga that uses crazy old Japanese words and kanji, like period shit. So unless you're only going to be reading shounen jump for the rest of your life, I'd take a second look at those Japanese newspapers.

Why the fuck not? Afraid you'll miss a line or two from the latest episode of some new hot shit and not be able to meme with the other kids? Save the episodes on your HD and watch it again in 6 months. Hearing will help your acquisition immensely. Fuck, if you don't the time for both, put the anime on while you read or do your flash cards.

This whole post is stupid. Why are you here asking if your plan for the next 6 months is a good one or not? If you've been studying for the last 6 months like you say you have, you should know that "time + work + experience/exposure = better Japanese." Your impatience annoys me. If you want to learn faster, work harder. People who are afraid to start until they have a guaranteed-to-work, world's most effective study method setup piss me off and remind me of the "what engine should I use?" shitters from /agdg/

So do that then if you're not bullshitting, since your (written) English is clearly native level.

On that note, this guy apparently achieved fluency in something like a year and a half and he's a literal nigger: alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/archives/ The site has turned into some kind of "motivate and sell you shit" blog since I last read it in 2007 or so, but the "how" should still be there, buried in the sidebar or something.

Right, I have never understood what the point of RTK was, I've learned pretty much most of the meanings of the kanji I recognize via the words that I have learned. Or is there something else I am missing? I can see the value for written work

Where did you see that? I'm having trouble cutting through the bullshit on this site to find the things I remember being useful for me way back in the day.

IIRC though, I remember looking at RTK and being utterly disgusted. There is no point to mnemonics, period. It's stupid. It's trivia that sometimes makes you go "hmm, so that's how that kanji was formed, by combining this with that because they roughly mean this and…" You learn kanji so that you can write and read kanji, and you remember kanji by guess what? Writing and reading kanji. I learned from a kanji textbook for children, plus writing out my flash card sentences. 小学漢字1006字の正しい書き方 is the name of the book I used, afterwards it was just online resources.

The point is simply to make it easier to recognize and remember kanji, as the name suggests.

alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/archives/page/124/

I went to the bottom since it was a blog and clicked to go to the last page.
I really don't get why it's advertised everywhere.

Wow. Guy recommends learning 2000+ kanji before doing anything else. In completely isolation. In English. No wonder I didn't do this.

Wew, what a gay. I guess what I did was step 1, then step 3, then 4, learning to write kanji as I can across them in words or just as I felt like it.

I'm sorry that my question annoyed you, I just don't know how deep the Japanese language is.

Like you just said, my English is not bad, but the language itself is rather easy.
My native language for example is very deep and even natives make many mistakes.

However I got the impression that Japanese might be a lot deeper.
I'm just not sure if it is worth it, for what I going to use it.

I'm afraid I could spend 2 year learning and still wouldn't be able to read anything other than books for children.

Deep? Can't say I've ever thought about it like that. I'd say it's actually a shallow and wide language. Grammar is easy, the writing system is actually simple, there's just a lot of it. You also don't have to worry about mistakes if you're just using it passively (reading, listening, watching) and not trying to ナンパ sluts in ginza or something.

You'll actually probably be pretty set after two years, provided you put the work in. The above-mentioned negroid claims fluency after 18 months, but he's a language autist and likely a real autist on top of that, if you read some of the stuff he did to study. You get in what you put out.

You know what I mean.

...

Hey, hey. It's been about a month. I have more or less gotten hiragana and katakana down. Fuck you I am not bragging. I was just going to ask if you think Anki is the best dictionary/flash card/practice resource. Is it free? Is it comprehensive? Anyone have any good grammar learning resources? What about Genki? Did anyone download that Genki torrent? Is it legit? I guess I could just do guidetojapanese.org but I just want to know what you're all using to practice.

Genki is more for classroom learning. I found Tae Kim's guide more useful.

Yes, grab Anki and grind till you want to die and then keep going. Grammar, just download a couple of things and see what fits you. Genki and minna no nihongo are fine packages of grammar and practice. Once you can read shit, read shit.

What the hell fampai?
I learned vocab that taught me like 1200 kanji and I still encounter new ones every single time I try to read anything.
Also every kanji has multiple readings which I wouldn't consider a simple writing system.

Does amazon.co.jp not let you buy kindle books anymore? I tried and they wouldn't let me complete the purchase because I was not in japan.

Nevermind, apparently ebooksjapan is way better.

バンプ～

Since sentence structure is flexible would 箸ですしを東京レストランでたべます be acceptable?

You definitely shouldn't listen to me, but I haven't seen anything like that before, especially what you did with the を

Supposedly, but I don't think it's very common to format a sentence like that.
guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/clause

Seems to be common with what I'm working with

That's pretty much how I understand it.

I'd google this but I can't phrase it correctly

When typing how do I get ー to appear for katakana? If i wanted to type out golf, I'd go ごるふ and then hit f7 for ゴルフ but if I did that for coffee I would get コオヒイ.

- works for Mozc

It's not wrong per se, but it would probably sound weird

Why are you pressing F7? For coffee just type out ko-hi- and press space to convert and enter to accept.

i didnt know i could use spacebar

You hit f7 because sometimes your IDE doesn't recognize the word and splits it up and converts that and you get gibberish.

It's simple as in, the grammar is relatively simple, the writing systems themselves make sense (despite morons in here who think katakana should be done away with just so they don't need to learn 52 more characters), the rules are few and their are few exceptions to these rules (unlike English and probably your mother tongue too.) I mean it's wide because there are a lot of kanji, and a lot of readings for those kanji. Or kana, compare 52 hiragana + 52 katakana. That seems like a lot compared to 26 alphabetic characters. Except we forgot capital letters. And how vowels can pronounced a lot of different ways, and letters are pronounced different when paired with others and sometimes they're silent and on and on. For a Japanese example, if you took 1500 kanji with 3 readings each, that's 4500 things to learn, not so much 3 depth levels with 1500 things to learn in each. That's what I meant by that.

It's more or less correct, but like another user said, it's weird and you'll never see a native say or write that. Try: 東京のレストランで箸で寿司を食べます。

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you, their writing system doesn't make sense at all.
I know the history behind their writing system, I know how the language and it's 3 scripts work in action.
Understandable that they developed it the way it is now, but it's still fucking retarded and you can't easily unfuck this bullshit now.

The biggest mistake they made, was copying kanji and further fucking it up trying to make it work with their language which is completely different to chinese.

26 letters you said it yourself, how efficient is that?

Meanwhile in Japan you study several years to be somewhat literate.
Just imagine how much time they waste learning these retarded ancient chinese scribbles.
Japanese are literal caveman and if the west didn't influence them back then, they would still run around with katanas, drink sake all day and off themselves for almost no reason cause mu honor until today.

No one's forcing you to learn it. If you had read the whole conversation instead of just (1)'ing at a strawman of my last post, you'd see I was offering another user encouragement to not quit studying because he'd probably experience the entire "depth" of the language in 2 years study, but the whole "breadth" of it (kanji, vocab, lingo, technical terms, idiomatic expressions, prose, writing/speaking styles, fucking whatever) would take a lifetime of study (like it does for every language.)

Not very, considering many letters have multiple pronunciations that you can't really guess with any accuracy when encountering a new word, and then you have letters that are entirely fucking pointless like "Q"

But there is it's the entirety of the video gaming industry

バンプ～

ankiweb.net/shared/decks/japanese
So there are a shitton of decks to choose from. Which ones do I start with? I need basic, beginner kanji.

Core6k.

mega.nz/#!QIQywAAZ!g6wRM6KvDVmLxq7X5xLrvaw7HZGyYULUkT_YDtQdgfU
Here is the Core2k/6k compete with audio for anyone who doesn't know where to get it. These threads need a better OP with an FAQ, and not just "hurr durr read the google doc"

I dunno. If you can't be bothered to read the guide then you aren't really wanting to learn japanese.

Give up already you faggots, do you have an idea how much time you are wasting on this shit?

You could play 100 games and have fun in the time needed to understand basic nip.

Also this thread is barely even vidya related.

But how are you going to play games if you can't read them?

Such as?
Everything worthwhile is translated.

You're kidding right? Tons of shit is Japan exclusive, and the few things that do get foreignized are sloppily handled at best, outright butchered at worst.

You always say that, but never post something.
Why? Because deep down you know it's just VNs or shovelware.

Come, user, and learn the Nipponese with us. You can do it, too. No need to project you feelings of inadequacy onto others in the thread. I'm sure if you make regular time to learn you'll be reading and speaking Nippon in no time!

バンプ～

Nora and The Time Studio

Only one guy is translating it and is 20% done, he's been at it for a year. It looks nice and seems to have some sort of cooking system.

There are a bunch of games on nicoblog that gone untranslated, on all platforms.

Nigger you make it sound like this is a recurring conversation. If you'd been around for any length of time and weren't just shitposting you'd know that entire franchises like SRW and Gundam Breaker are Japan exclusive, and even more franchises have half or more of their titles Japan-exclusive, and the ones that do get localized are so godawful they barely count (see: Megami Tensei and Fire Emblem)

Kanji is a bitch. Holy shit. The kana were so straightforward, but now you've got symbols that look the same and have multiple readings, and you've got symbols that look different and share the same exact meaning. Kanji is like a brick fucking wall to your face. Should I just force myself to do it, or would it be wiser to start with basic grammar? I have virtually no vocabulary, though.

You can't avoid Kanji. Even if you do grammar exercises, there will still be kanji in them. Just do both at the same time.

Yeah, I guess so. I'll just have to git gud. Anyway, maybe one of you can help me understand something. I have read that Onyomi is the "Chinese" reading of any given Kanji, and this reading only applies when a Kanji is used in combination with another Kanji to make a Jukugo. Kunyomi is supposed to be the reading that is used when the Kanji is said by itself. This is clear and makes sense, but there are instances in which this rule does not apply. What the fuck? Pic related, the first two example words follow this pronunciation rule, but the third and fifth do not. Is it just that there are some exceptions to this general rule?

Another thing I'd like to know about pronunciations: How do you know when to use which pronunciation? The character [一] has two Onyomi, [ICHI and ITSU]. If I'm not mistaken, all of the example words in the pic use the first reading. Is there some contextual flag that will allow you to know which is the appropriate pronunciation to use or am I just going to have to learn each and every instance in which it is used differently?

No, just give up.
It's not worth it at all.

Your next line is:

Onyomi can be used when the kanji is alone and kunyomi can be used with other kanji. Most jukugo will be onyomi. If a word has any okurigana it's likely kunyomi.

一人 is the kunyomi ひと. You could read it いちにん but that's not what people use, outside of some different jukugo or sayings and the like. Maybe because ひとり sounds better or something, I don't really know. ついたち is derived from 月立ち（つきたち）. There are words like this which you will just have to learn that either use kanji simply for their meaning; not conforming to the pronunciation, or their pronunciation has changed over time for whatever reason. You can and will read 一日 in other ways, such as いちにち, though there's difference in meaning there. (1 day vs. the first)

Most kanji only have one onyomi and in some cases those with multiple will use one of them a lot more often. Those that make use of varied readings you'll probably mostly just have to learn which to use. With multiple kunyomi you can often but not always tell which to use via any okurigana. Also, not all the examples there use いち, 一緒 and 一般的 use いつ.

There is no logic in Japanese.
Even if a kanji has onyomi a and kunyomi b you can encounter literally everything from a to z.
That's the sad truth.

see

Sure there is. After a certain point you will automatically know how to read even words you have never seen before.

for not even a week of starting studying nip with 1.5 hours spent.
feels really good

i feel this is bait when i make it to study kanji and grammar it will be too hard for then i will give up

Btw in case you are curious, those 正 kanji are used as counters there. You know how we write 4 vertical lines and then a strike through them to count off five things, that's the same except they write one stroke at a time.

Yeah Japanese is great and makes sense and there aren't words that are written exactly the same but can mean or read completely different things.
Fuck this language.

I'm sorry that you were born stupid user.

Don't worry about being a failure, Anons. Here's some encouragement.

sauce?

Spoilers. Everything the creepy guy says about fucking her unleashing her magical power is actually true

What is this low level bait? You're blaming your inability to learn the language on its supposed lack of internal consistency or something? You know that the average Japanese 4 year old knows more Japanese than you trap-fappers will in a lifetime, right? Isn't that embarrassing? Is that why you're projecting this hard?

You mean like "draw?" Or "trick?" Or "read?"

Dunno, sorry user.

Also 300 posts, someone make a new thread.

Compare this thread to the mahjong thread. Niggers don't want to learn anything and get all butt blasted when you insinuate that they're retarded and don't know what they don't know.

im having brain problems now

i feel like im forgetting hiragana as i learn katakana.

Like it isn't the truth.