Shitty debates

Well, that's certainly one way to look at it.

The other way would be that while mass importation of a violent, rapey, culturally incompatible people may give you some "happy feels" in the short term, you're not only dooming your own people to misery, but the people you wanted to help in the first place as they turn your nation into a mirror of the third world hellhole they fled. The end result at that point being the world isn't better, but categorically worse for everyone.

If you want to make the world better, stop sending food to third world countries and for fuck's sake, stop importing them to the west. Teach them sustainable farming methods, the benefits of real communism, and allow their populations to stabilize with what the land they live on can support. You could then use that as a tangible real world example of successful communism.

Who can seriously be this delusional?

White neo Nazis are culturally incompatible. Can't say they're productive since most of them are poor as shit and too crazy, fat or stupid to even join the army.

Antifa proves you can easily beat cultural incompatibility out of anyone

idpol is temporary solutions to permanent problems, it doesn`t solve… say poverty.
Besides its wrought with favoritism.
This is why class struggle exists.

Yes, the quality of life for blacks under Obama has surely improved :^)
You're confusing equal opportunity with equal outcome. "Liberals" have no interest in the former.
Yeah, it was so effective it lost them the election and got Trump elected. Had Bernie laid off on the hard, аnti-white rhetoric, he would have had enough support from white Americans to blow Hillary the fuck out, regardless of the rigging, and he absolutely would have beaten Trump.

Are you arguing that Africans are incapable of understanding and applying the basic tenants of communism?

If by neo Nazis you mean NEETsocs, I agree completely.
Antifa is a joke.

Unemployment went down from a high of 12 percent to a current of 5.

If Liberals weren't materially helping their voter base their ideology wouldn't be so prevalent right?

Is that material dialectics. I don't think libs put too much stock in idpol, idpol obviously works, it got trump elected.

I think libs lost because they tried to pass off pure idpol ideology with no material backing, stuff like Hillary being prez is good for women instead of clear direct policies that would help women.

Trump promised to throw all the brown people out, that material support

I don't think it does either but everyone here dismisses it out of hand on this board.

But it wouldn't be so powerful if it didn't actually work to a degree.

If I'm black and I have to eat a shit sandwich everyday and white people only have to eat half of one and a lib comes along and writes a law that makes it illegal for me to eat more shit then a white person that's still a material improvement.

If there's so many marxists on here aren't we supposed to draw conclusions from events instead of the other way around,

Idpol is ideological, but it' has power so it has a base

Why are you lying? Over 40% of Americans 16 and older are out of the labor force. It has been that way for a very long time.
Loaded question. Robbing working class males at gunpoint so that you can provide financial incentives to women who disproportionately consume taxpayer benefits, while paying the lower class to churn out voters isn't "helping" anyone increase their standard of living. You're just bribing low lQ individuals who don't know any better to support policies that actively harm them, like luring a kid with candy into your rape van.
Do you actually believe this? I'm being serious.

There been back to back job growth for about six years.

If you don't want to pay disproportionately more taxes why do you vote Trump or GOP. Putting the tax burden on the rich would solve this problem but people like you vote against it.

How is providing welfare not materially helping

Yes I believe he will throw brown people out. He has a long history of racism. And he promised several times. Weird how a white Christian can shoot up a church but you don't conflate all christians with terrorism

Yes. Mostly on this board.

No, they've just stopped counting people who are no longer looking for work as "unemployed".
One of the candidates wanted to strip away my constitutional rights. One of them didn't. Guess why I voted for who I did?
Actually, closing all tax loopholes and getting rid of deductables, while imposing a 5-10% flat tax would fix it. The middle class would stop being raped, the poor would have skin in the game, and the rich would actually end up paying more.
Again, it's "helping" in the same way giving a starving kid some candy so you can get them into your rape van and fuck them is "helping" them.

You said, and I quote "Trump promised to throw all the brown people out". Do you actually believe he's going to throw all the brown people out?>

What do you mean by psychoanalyze? It is normal to try to figure out the motives of the person one speaks to, isn't it? So if that's what you mean, there is nothing special to it, everybody does it.

If you mean the Freudian variety, as you seem to, why are you annoyed with it? The reason is because it is horse piss. Be glad that they are doing it for free. There are people who actually pay money to hear that nonsense.

There are "intellectuals" on the "left" RIGHT NOW who are making money with books and speeches full of that stuff. They get posted on leftypol, even, every now and then, "based Jodi Dean thread", "based Zizek", based Hubbard. And when somebody goes through a long talk and transcribes parts they disagree with or reads a whole book that gets posted, and writes a detailed rebuttal, the reply is:

“For us as a small minority this whole thing is objective including the mood of the workers. But we must analyze and classify those elements of the objective situation which can be changed by our paper and those which cannot be changed. That is why we say that the program is adapted to the fundamental stable elements of the objective situation and the task is to adapt the mentality of the masses to those objective factors. … The crisis of society is given as the base of our activity. The mentality is the political arena of our activity. We must change it. We must give a scientific explanation of society, and clearly explain it to the masses. That is the difference between Marxism and reformism.”

“The reformists have good smell for what the audience wants… that is not serious revolutionary activity. … it must be scientific, not bent to the moods of the masses. We are the most realistic people because we reckon with facts which cannot be changed.”

So? Cry more.

I ain't crying homie, but it's fucking stupid that leftist is in the woods while Dems and GOP can build national parties in large part due to Idpol.

But nah let's ignore the material base of idpol,
why the fuck are you even a leftist if you aren't will to put your pussy ass ego aside for the revolution.

This literally doesn't matter, and it's intellectual dishonesty at its finest to imply that it does.

Racial quotas hurt the people passed up for jobs in order to fill them. This is obvious. Your numbers game of finding the most "equitable" rationing of resources and opportunity between all the oppressed of the world, while the bourgeoisie continue to dine on caviar and gold flakes, has no place in leftism.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Literally straight white women telling minorities to be ashamed because they think they're straight white men

I want a revolution that benefits me.

If I'm going to be yelled at and sidelined for being an evil white man I'm not interested. Most people are cunts anyway.

LARPing this hard. There were never any quotas, just make white people look for candidates where they weren't white people.

This ain't even a strawman, it's just something you pulled out of your ass.

But yes criticizing white supremacy and addressing it's material base means criticizing white people.

Man when LBGT and black complain about idpol you're all quick to tell them to STFU, but when people bitch about white supremacy suddenly it's the worst thing eva

How would addressing the tribalism that divides the proles not benifit you. Sorry the dominate idpol is white idpol, so in order to fix the divides it causes means white people in the dominate position are going to have to do most of the work.

Both from people who know nothing about me on an anonymous image board

I want to say you are a Holla Forums shitposter, if only because no one can possibly be this self-unaware.

Liberals literally say "kill white people" on Twitter on a daily basis. It might just be ironic or something, but good luck explaining that to most onlookers.

Really? When gays and blacks get tired of it, what do liberals say? Internalized homophobia! Internalized racism! You have never, ever cared what minorities think because you think you are their savior.

I am gay, by the way. Thanks for speaking on my behalf. When the revolution comes, the liberals will be treated no differently from the fascists.

...

freepresshouston.com/dear-fellow-white-people-shut-up-right-now/
thehumanist.com/magazine/july-august-2015/fierce-humanism/the-part-about-black-lives-mattering-where-white-people-shut-up-and-listen
downtrend.com/71superb/hillarys-reaction-to-dallas-cop-killings-white-people-need-to-shut-up-and-listen-to-black-people
youtube.com/watch?v=I_g3XPcVknc
coloursofresistance.org/749/ten-things-to-remember-anti-racist-strategies-for-white-student-radicals/
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/11/white-people-racism-america
reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/522c7j/green_day_singer_billie_joe_armstrong_a_lot_of/
thisrenegadelove.com/this-is-why-black-lives-matter/

This is a mainstream view, as is that of muh privilege theory, patriarchy, etc.

We are facing down a toxic ideology that casts the white working class as oppressors responsible for the problems of capitalism. It's obvious how this hurts innocent people. It's obvious how pinning these problems, to the extent they actually exist, on the "boorishness" of the people themselves is counter-revolutionary and divisive.

There indeed were racial quotas for university admissions until a court ruling prohibited them. Now the practice continues under the guise of "holistic admissions." You can look at the gaps between average SAT scores of an institution's admitted black, latino, white and asian students, downtrend.com/vsaxena/bonus-sat-points-for-being-black and the demographics of those institutions (Caltech) which ardently resist this program.

Mere linguistic juggling. You're still suggesting, at its core, a set of zero-sum policies that take adversarial race relations to be fundamental, rather than results of class rule, and seek to mediate them in one way or another.

The great issue of our time is not deciding whether we want soup or salad, but convincing fuckheads like you that we can have both.

So he blames your progressive views on poor parenting? Did you try blaming his conservatism on a below-average Autism Level?

The wonderful thing is that categorically giving certain people more challenging opportunities than they've earned or are prepared to succeed at is among the surest ways to create a mass delusion of oppression and inequity.
nypost.com/2015/12/08/college-quotas-are-actually-destroying-lives-of-minorities/

sorry i can't help but be skeptical

I honestly believe that embracing an inevitable world culture mixing is healthy and that the inital shock will eventually subside. Also, as one who supports the egalitarian ideal, I find nothing more beneficial to America than to help as much as possible. That said, teaching a man to fish is waaaay better than giving him fish.

the nypost article is saying the same thing that many BLM activists will say, but from a different perspective. Finding that that many of their black peers also struggle in bottom percentage of their classes does fuel feelings of oppression. I'll let you reason out the argument from their perspective.

Well I'm not going to say I read any of those articles but just from the titles along I agree yes white people should shut up and listen to minorities about racism.

White idpol is drenched in blood so it carries a lot more significant historical base than deeply triggering and problematic racism.

No we shouldn't tolerate racism against whites but white people like you wanna pretend like this shit happens in a vacuum and it's equivalent.

Well I'm looking at material oppression. It's still completely legal to discriminate against gays in a lot of ways, and plenty of other gay people complain about it.

Also if laws aren't enforced which a lot of discrimination laws aren't they are effectively void

In general this is a red herring

It also means minorities should shut up and listen to minorities about racism

it's sort of like how mansplaining is now something women can do, because those women aren't shutting up and listening to women about sexism.

They probably would not care as much about racism if it was the case tough.

On sececond read, this whole post looks like bait so well done.

Well that post is bait because black people owning the means of production would invert the Power + muh privilege argument.

Why? If everyone owned their own little factory that met all their needs they would not associate with racist people.

And visa versa

Because that would give them muh privilege over the non-black people as well as the power to dictate their terms of engagement with them.

It's not bait, you all have the empathy of children.

You see liberals cry about discrimination and since it's not real to you and you don't have the intellect to critically analyze anything you dismiss it.

You're like pol in that way, I can see they're in pain. but pol can't empathize with anyone else's pain either.

They can't put themselves in other people's shoes. Most of you guys can't either, that why simple as hell ideology like idpol throws you all for a loop

It would give them leverage over anyone that didn't own the MoP.

You are irredeemablely spooked

I wasn't asking you to read them. I'm pointing out that this absolutely despicable sentiment is now very mainstream. You immediately jumping in line behind it is icing on the cake tbh. Consider, just perhaps, that your ideology's sort of overt hatred and tribalist hostility towards white people barely hidden under a veneer of "anti-tribalism" is why people like and I are so skeptical.

For the record we don't condemn genuine white supremacy any less than we do your bullshit. Your mistake or lie in is also rather troubling, and you show yourself either too dishonest or careless to trust on matters of policy.

You are free to respond to my argument at any time,

Also you have to link all posts you reply to, ya newfag. I'm not but I actually am gay too.
Thank god I now have the """right""" to be """officially""" """recognized""" by the bourgeois """government""" when I want to call my boyfriend "husband" and pay double taxes.
"Straight liberal allies" are the most obnoxious, self-satisfied people. South Park didn't get it too far off.

The facts are easily verifiable. I just grabbed a random article to summarize the point about quotas.

Pathologizing dissent? Really? Get the fuck out.

The issue fundamentally with US racism is that black Americans as a rule do not posses generational wealth. Some white people do, and the one's that don't muddle the identity argument, and lead it into stupid places (there are more white barbershops in places with mroe white people), but without the specific history of black people in American the American-molded idpol and power+privledge argument wouldn't exist.

Minorities should listen to other minorities, yes. But their idpol ideology isn't the dominant one like white idpol is so those kids no of issues are peripheral, but none the less should be addressed

Wut. No it doesn't. Power derives from their ownership of the means of production.

Nigga, most people actually agree with what I have to say about socialism, except for muh human nature. So no, no psychoanalysis.

It was too butthurt and unprofessional to take seriously. Which makes a comparison to BLM pretty apt, actually.

Colleges are for-profit entities. They only pander to liberal sentiments because it is profitable to do so: it means more of these clueless well-off liberals will be paying them tuition money, and because the value of their products is inherently arbitrary, they can afford to hire idiots that actually believe the socjus line, which you can see in the typical humanities department. The "safe space" mentality is, and always was, little more than a new flavor of consumerism.

"My feelings" is not a fucking argument. White nationalists think they are "in pain" in this same sense.

So white idpol suddenly has always existed? After the post-modern, critical theorist discovered identity politics they realized that all of history was actually struggles of… identity?

Historically this has not been as true as it is today. I blame FASFA.

Historically colleges were the adolescent daycare centers of the elite.

It's not despicable sentiment to fucking insist that you have a grievance with someone else and aren't going to be quite about it.

Again with the false equivalency, white racism has a 200 year long history of rape and genocide behind it, you wanna pretend like this racism problem is some arbitrary construct made up by SJWs.

Seriously guies aren't we as marxists supposed to infer ideology from the material world we observe.

If idpol is so prevalent it must have a material base. It cannot be any other way.

That material base is white supremacy. Which gives white people a material advantage in the market.

If white people are the one that posses the advantage then they're the ones that are either going to have to relinquish it or use it to help others reach parity with them

No but it's an abstraction of class struggle. All the white people here in the US were themselves oppressed minorities in Europe, Irish, Jew, Polish etc.

When they came to the US they invented this new ID called white people so they could obtain the muh privileged status of say a WASP in the U.K.

They could do that because black people formed that bottom teir.

They did it to gain a competitive advantage under capitalism

The key idea is that when diversity quotas ensure members of a racial group at a certain university are substantially less qualified than the general population, they will tend to attribute their underperformance to racial muh privilege and oppression which may not exist.

I'm not equating anything. Take your boilerplate arguments and go back.

Absolutely every identity group's own racism has this, at least. The past is irrelevant beyond how it has influenced current material conditions, meaning objective, concrete results which may be effectively studied in themselves in the current moment.

The material base is capitalist property relations. Identity politics is a device of class rule. Identity politics has always been based on idealism cultivated by the ruling class and has always been a device of class rule.

My gott.
You're fucking clueless.You clearly don't understand historical materialism, and yet claim to be a Marxist? White supremacy is not a material base.
WHY does it exist? WHY was there any kind of racial preference? THINK, goddammit, what more fundamental material conditions is it an emergent property of?
Your clique's grave theoretical mistake lies in treating racism and racial preference as the results of some autonomous meandering of the collective consciousness, to be solved by directly adapting the moods of the public.

You're making yourself a broken record here. You've said this a half dozen times now, but failed to make any argument for why we should want this. cf

Ascribing universal traits to subjective abstractions isn't materialist.

Saying white people are muh privileged is the same as saying black people are criminals.

How is getting opportunities denied to other proles not materialst

Because "getting opportunities denied to other proles" is not a philosophical doctrine.

Hispanic trans bisexual female. And you're full of shit, btw.

having black CEOs exploit black workers is sure a decisive improvement

I did end up as a socialist for deeply personal reasons, namely that I've always had a deep personal hatred for identity politics because I was a bit of a loner in high school, and I couldn't turn to libertarianism because my dad was a bureaucrat and I admired what he did

but if your theory of white idpol is correct then it doesn't follow that whites should care. why would something that benefits a group be willingly discarded?

I think this is an important point.If someone believes their greatest adversity hinge(s/d) on their belonging to some identity group, they've clearly never experienced genuine adversity in their lives.

Okay I usually despise doing this but I'm a bisexual brown guy you fucking faggot

...

lmao are all of us either bi or gay
seems like a lot
xexizy please have coffee with me

I'm fuckin' Hibernian son. Take your 200 years and shove em, because we caught the shit end of that stick as hard as everybody else did. The key is, we don't complain and only some of us blame everything on the English.

Idpol is blinding cancer, you might as well have tumors for eyes at this point.

🍀🍀🍀Hibernian🍀🍀🍀

racial inequality is objectively worse than 30 years ago
fredrikdeboer.com/2014/12/05/racial-inequality-is-objectively-worse-than-30-years-ago/
Idpol is more popular than ever, while this is the actual material reality of black Americans.

Begorrah!

waste of dubs

This tired straw man. Female wage gap in the used to be like 40 percent in the 1960s

Wage gap fro blacks used to be worse too

One these charts if anything prove idpol is nessecary and has a material base. And two there are plenty of anti discrimination laws that have been passed like for housing were developers can be sued if the effect of their real estate development is racist, versus having to prove intent which is next to impossible to prove.

These are all material improvements that none of you all care about because your a bunch of punk honkies with zero intellectual curiosity beyond the one or two books you've ready.

Without idpol those charts would be worse.

Fun fact did you know most black people in the 30s didn't even notice there was a depression because they never saw and economic improvement during the roaring 20s

Always, its seems that nine out of ten discussions about Communism end with my opponent attacking my character to discredit it.
It's somewhat fair as I am a pretty shitty person that doesn't do enough for the cause but its also a shitty argument and makes me wonder about their own character since they would rather put someone down instead of considering what possible contradictions they may have in their ideology.
Oh well, c'est la vie. Motivation to make myself a less shitty person so they have fewer non-arguments to use I suppose.

Do you honestly see this resulting in a "mixed" world culture, and not the complete destruction and replacement of European culture with Islam? As I said, currently they are a violent and incompatible culture, and the incompatible part is extremely important.
The only way to truly help them in the long term is to quarantine them to their own nations, and give to them the one thing they lack that East Asians, Europeans and Ashkenazi Jews have in spades: Knowledge and Ingenuity.

We can't truly raise the lQ of Africa without eugenics, so that's a non-starter, but we can break them of their superstitions and primitive ape-like violent behavior and problem solving skills. If we cut the billions spent on Israel annually that are simply used to breed misery and oppress Arabs, imagine how we could use that money to create a program for the dissemination of knowledge and education in Africa. Not building those worthless fucking schools that teach them how to be good goy consumers, but teaching them sustainable farming methods, easy to understand behavior rules like the NAP (which is surprisingly easy for children and low lQ individuals to understand and apply), proper parenting skills, and empiricism.

Several decades of that and you may very well mold them into a people that would not only successfully mix culturally, but add to the culture they're mixing with, not degrading or destroying it.

Stay in denial. Idpol just seeks to blanket over the fact that liberalizing the economy increases inequality across the board but hey who needs economic analysis when you have le raycis wyte man?

Where did you learn your history from SJWU? I'm pretty sure the blacks who worked in factories noticed they were thrown out of their jobs at the very least. And how can black sharecroppers failed to have notice declining demand for cotton and tighter credit? Even if they didn't see any improvement during the 30s they would've noticed and felt the worldwide super-crisis tearing the world apart. Most workers in the US and other developed nations didn't experience any material improvements in wages during the boom of the 2000s but they damn sure felt the crash.

Identity politics is not the recognition of distinct non-class identities, it is conception of political change and possibility based around the relative social position of these groups within an unalterable socioeconomic background.

The fact that 30 years of identity politics and the abandonment of class-based political organization has resulted in the worsening of these groups' relative position can be nothing but the most damning indictment of the entire approach.

Pop psychology in mainstream media has given normies the delusion they can diagnose anyone from superficial circumstance.