Need ideological guidance

From 2008 until this election I was a hardcore marxist, evolving from a ML to a left com.

Bernie came along, I got really excited.

I hated hillary as a neoliberal hawk who gave her ideology a modern appeal and a thin veneer of leftism through identity politics, which I only ever tacitly approved of, regarding it as left liberalism of a nascent generation

Then bernie lost. Then I was told I had to vote hillary else it was white muh privilege, because trump was a fascist existential threat to non whites, women, and so on. I didn't buy it, to me he was obviously native working class reaction to globalization and the failure of both parties to address neoliberalism and economic inequality. I got ostracized by my peers, already feeling disgruntled because I was expected to merely be an ally because of my skin color, rather than the vanguardist I signed up for. I was told I didn't talk enough about race and gender and I was committing Holocausts by talking so much about economics and class, not condemning brexit enough, and I was even thrown out of a meeting for suggesting there was a divide between feminism called liberal and socialist feminism. All I said was liberal feminism was bourgeois because it merely turns house slaves into wage slaves. I was labeled a brocialist and shamed. That was when I threw my hands in the air, because none of this shit was around when I started, before gamergate and Tumblr.

I stumbled across Holla Forums, and I got redpilled pretty hard. I realized it felt cucked to be an ally and was told to hate myself. I came to regard these left liberals as on the same plane as international finance, the former being stormtroopers of neoliberalism. It was no coincidence to me that Soros went from sponsoring anti communist movements to anti-nationalist ones. He was sponsoring the same bourgeois liberal open society the entire time, and the class character remained the same. Nationalism has an obvious proletarian character in our day, I see it as the people who'd be in a labor movement 100 years ago despising the rootlessness, self hate, and liberal capitalism of an urban cosmopolitan elite and campus liberals. America destroyed its unions, so the blue collar working class retreated to the last form of solidarity against the atomization of liberal capitalism and globalization: nationalism.

Obviously you cannot think about this stuff, particularly the cosmopolitan urban bourgeois liberal, without realizing where jews fit in to all of this. From there, I realized I needed to stop. I don't talk politics anymore, but I still realize we live in a unique time and are basically in a sort of Weimar era for our republic, collapsing political center, heightened race and class problem, weakened faith in democracy. I'm concerned about our generation.

I don't know where I'm at anymore, I want to be a communist again but something feels wrong about assuming the subordinate position of ally because of my skin color and genitals. I also don't like how race obsessed the left liberals and stormfags are, I signed up for a class war after all. I appreciate our intersection with race and gender which has always been there, but I don't see it as primary and if we treat it as that, we'll split the working class and end up fighting a Nazi masturbation fantasy or something.

What do Holla Forums

The left is dead

Just browse Holla Forums and hate liberals with us. Sheesh you problem was associating with liberals on the first place, how can you call yourself ML if you were on some liberal organization and later fell for Holla Forums's bullshit?

These experiences are in the party for socialism and liberation, revleft, and my campus progressive org

All liberals

How? PSL is a marxist leninist org and revleft is just ultraleft and viciously anti tankie. They're just virtue signalling so they don't get lumped in, but they're not quite liberals. The young turks are a fine example of liberals to me

people are allowed to change their opinions

I was a Holla Forumstard for a while

you seem to be looking for ☆ anarchism ☆

Nationalism has always been exploited by bourgiosie demagogues in order to distract the masses from class struggle. Rather then blaming the ruling classes the masses are told to blame whatever oppressed minority group the elite currently is willing to discard. This prevents people from actually changing the system and dealing with the people actually in charge.

Every single communist without exception must believe in revolutionary defeatism and be willing to overthrow ones own government despite the protests of nationalists. The Bolsheviks didn't overthrow the provisional government and the tsardom out of some misguided notion of nationalism but rather out of an internationalist desire to improve conditions for all people. That is why modern nationalists like the unprincipled nationalistic scumbag Putin attack comrade Lenin for "treason to the nation." Perhaps we communists are guilty of "treason to the nation" but that is something we should wear proudly because we are not nationalists.

There are some national liberation struggles like the Palestinian national liberation struggle against Zionism. But this must be based upon national liberation and not nationalism. If it is based upon nationalism which distracts from class struggle then someday the Palestinians may become oppressors themselves. Consider that the Jews were once oppressed, but thanks to Jewish nationalism, expressed as Zionism, they became oppressors later on. Zionism and all other forms of nationalism should be opposed.

Is they don't go for class struggle they're liberals, plain and simple

Oh no, I agree nationalism is reactionary because it is class collaborationist. However something about globalization has changed the character of nationalism. As I believe, globalization as exposed the fundamental inequality of our day: the gap in ability of labor and capital to cross borders. This, mixed with the fact that nationalism is basically the last form of solidarity against liberal capitalism and protect blue collar workers, seems to have given it a thoroughly proletarian character.

The opposition to this nationalism does not seem to come so much from the working class and the left, but Russian liberals, Eurocrats, and NYC liberals who all disdain their people as the rot in their democracy that's holding them back. They seem to pretty much hate the working class as having this beer drinking lad culture and refusing to accept immigration whilst demanding too much in wages and not having enough children to demographically sustain the welfare state.


In the 3rd world Nationalism has been Leftist since forever, I don't think there's anything wrong with spreading that character as global poverty reaches you guys gradually, you don't have to be a Nazi to be a Nationalist and being the latter doesn't make you a evil racists pig.
europoors are just spooked by their own history.
(I heard Clinton wanted a Development Bank for the US too? I mean Vargas did that, completely off topic but I wanted to break the black and white narrative for a sec)
Also by allowing Nazis in your ranks you've just forced liberals to virtue signal harder, focusing on the economic aspect of Nationalism could get people towards a common ground.

(oh you're probably gonna get swarmed by anti-fa here on Holla Forums soon enough but don't take them too seriously)

I had a discussion like that and I was told nationalism is never progressive in the first world and the nationalism of the working class there is just defending its muh privilege gained from imperialist super profits. It kind of reminded me of maoist third worldism, but I know lenin spoke of a labor aristocracy anyway.

Has globalization changed the character of nationalism? Can it be left wing? Is it the right response to the global minded liberal elite that regards the white working class as on the wrong side of history and, as everyone from Robert reich to bill clinton points out, fails to offer any solutions to their economic woes? Reich just put out an article urging a progressive takeover of the democratic party to mend the gap between the left and the white working class

Also it'd be really overzealous of antifa to attack me here. It's a legitimate issue for the left, identity politics and this working class nationalism. It's why corbyn get shit on by some members of his party for not opposing brexit enough

We know, the ruling class is both divide among itself and seeks to divide us. They must be divided but workers naturally WORK together.

yeah i agree zizek explains it nicely in his rt interview on trump. look at how hillary lost in every single demo compared to obama, no one likes that disdain for normal people.

the working class doesn't demand too much, only what is stolen by his boss. every worker experiences this theft and sees that immigration is used as a wedge against them. the average worker believes that the border is in place to help them, and not their boss.

a welfare state is highly supported by workers country wide, but the clintons have worked all their political career to tear it apart. I work minimum wage and with rent/utilities/etc I choose between eating and socializing (participating in working class culture basement dwelling neets on Holla Forums don't actually understand). Clinton made it so a person working for $8/hr 40hrs/wk could not receive food stamps.

THIS is the sort of thing that workers responded to when they were presented with clinton as an option for president again!


Party for socialism and liberation isn't liberal. And well, yea, as soon as you think of things in terms of working class nationalism versus liberal cosmopolitanism and look at voting distributions in the states, blue collar 'flyover country' and neoliberal, trendy Victorian snobs in the cities, particularly NYC..

The idea is capital, as something that crosses borders easier than labor, can easily manipulate national markets which in turn function as prisons for workers. The solution is either abolition of nations or a nation state that reigns in international capital or that embraces autarky, I guess.

A DOTP will be faced with the same question, too.

Also I've been reading zizek a lot and referring things he says about trump and clinton to some peers of mine, they regard his soft trump apology as brocialism or white muh privilege.

Should we just write off the white working class as defending first world muh privilege that globalization is destroying

Easy. Do what I do. Focus on Class Struggle and fuck everything else. Let the idpol bitches worry about muh privilege and safe spaces. We have a revolution to win!

What do you do when you're accused of brocialism, 'punching down', and 'telling people that aren't muh privileged like you to shut up about the color line'

Anarchism attracts more liberals than any of the other socialist sub-branches.

if nation-states are the tools of capital used to more easily exploit workers, why would a solution be to empower the nation-state instead of abolish it.

The slave doesn't demand stronger chains, but that his chains be broken.

he doesn't apologize for trump, he merely states the obvious. chapo is on this too. trump got less people excited for him than fucking romney. clinton completely failed and trump fizzled.

no, and why would we accept the options of our enemies?

only libs do this. which means you only encounter it on college campus' or on twitter/reddit. In a decade of activism in one of the largest cities in the US I have never seen this actually happen in person. (literally every day online. I only interact with trots and libsocs though)

Nothing you write relates to that.

Something doesn't add up here.


Stopped reading there lol

You went from being a leftcom to a Holla Forumsyp because you encountered resistance from the idpol obssesed left? You actually fell for red pill memes?

stop talking shit OP

You're either lying through your teeth or completely fucking retarded. Leftcoms are completely against parliamentary participation and would never support a socdem like sanders.
Those of you who are taking OP seriously need to read a fucking book.

ITT: yet another proof that "leftcom" doesn't mean a thing.

I said I was excited about Bernie, he was a litmus test on how the american public felt about social democracy and further, how the democratic party would handle the resurgent left. I never said I supported him.

How they used race to beat issues if class in the primaries was telling. He was portrayed as disconnected from minority politics, and only he was disrupted by BLM

Would you like to comment on the working class vote behind brexit and corbyn's inertia towards opposing it? Or how some on the left see trump's victory as, in part, the fault of the left for alienating the white working class?

Obviously people are using nationalism to turn against bourgeois elites, and arguably it makes sense considering it's the last form of acceptable solidarity against the atomization of liberal capitalism, and isn't his globalized era capital has left behind the nation. Is there even a national bourgeoisie to speak of? Are nations not just national labor markets anymore?

If so, is nationalism not just a response to enforced competition between the native working class and those abroad, and capital's international character that let's it find the cheapest areas of the world to produce?

The left wing of capital consists of petit bourgeois urban cosmopolitans that hate the 'problematic' blue collar worker and both SJWs and neoliberals want an open society to both guarantee a voting bloc for the center left as well as remain globally competitive? Its not hard to understand. The native/white working class is completely against this, it doesn't demographically sustain the welfare state, it's too expensive as workers, and it's allergic to the social changes associated with globalization. It's literally just idpol in reverse, nationalism intersecting with labor issues