Why is the left so shitty?

Elijah White
Elijah White

anarchists can't defend the revolution
MLs never give the means of production to the workers
left comms never do anything
socdems and demsocs always sell out to porky
trots are sectarian fags
market socialism collapses back into capitalism

Why is the left so shitty?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emiliano_Zapata

Nathan Collins
Nathan Collins

because everything sucks and we're stupid enough to want to fix it instead of embracing it

Lincoln Cox
Lincoln Cox

Because

1. market socialists have generally poor economics
2. marxists, including leftcoms, have shitty theory and can't into ethics
3. Socdems and demsocs appeal to sellouts
4. Anarchism shares the same problems as marxism, and suck at understanding the nature of power

The only solution is to become an ubermensch tbh

Jason Price
Jason Price

complains about poor ethics
you must become the ubermensch
Wut?

Logan Brooks
Logan Brooks

If you're going to into ethics, you might as well do it properly. Otherwise, become ubermensch. Either/Or as reddit would say.

Matthew Long
Matthew Long

anarchists can't defend the revolution

Looks like we need to start and defend a revolution then.

Our lesson from last time, don't trust the authoritarians at all.

Tyler Robinson
Tyler Robinson

Federal democratic state syndicalism is the only solution comrade.

Samuel Barnes
Samuel Barnes

Inadequate post-revolution planning and organization, and an inability to counter the immense reactionary power of existing capitalist nation-states.

Josiah Butler
Josiah Butler

why is the state necessary in this equation?

Sebastian Murphy
Sebastian Murphy

What else you going to call it?

You know what the biggest problem is? It's the leftist vocabulary. It's a bunch of 19th Century definitions that have remained fossilized, and a bunch of definitions that only apply within left wing circles, because Kropotkin, Bakunin, Marx, Lenin or whoever decided to write it that way back in the 20s at the most recent.

We need someone to come along and rewrite Marxism in entirely modern language, so workers don't need to read Hegel to understand Marx, and we don't alienate people with constant misunderstandings of our idiosyncratic use of private property (EVEN PROUDHON HAD A DIFFERENT DEFINITION TO MARX WTF AAAA).

Basically stop being stubborn hipsters who care more about authenticity (retch) than winning.

Benjamin Bailey
Benjamin Bailey

You can always read Zizek or listen to Lectures by Wolff

Jaxson Murphy
Jaxson Murphy

anarchists can't defend the revolution
There has been approximately one anarchist revolution in history and it happened as a response to a military coup.

Ryan Scott
Ryan Scott

It's simple. In its modern incarnation, the left lacks organization, it lacks structure. Every time it goes to organize, it creates a new splinter sect, idolizing a leader (see Marxist-Leninism and Maoism for a few examples.)
Oh, and this is a big issue as well.

Thomas Ramirez
Thomas Ramirez

Is there any revolutionary ideology that is an intermedium between ML and anarchism?

I think that would bring socialism.

Jeremiah Williams
Jeremiah Williams

aBANDOND IT

Jason Roberts
Jason Roberts

Tbh I need to read more classical leftist theory but I find post-left anarchy super interesting.

Mason Diaz
Mason Diaz

There has been approximately one anarchist revolution in history and it happened as a response to a military coup.
At least three.

Paris Commune would be the first Anarchist attempt at revolution. During Civil War in Russia we'll see Makhno - whom I'd hesitate to call pure Anarchist, but his is Anarcho-Capitalism. And only then do we get Catalonia (who were AnCom, i.e. partially Marxists).

And it is telling that there weren't more uprisings that developed into a full revolution.

You know what the biggest problem is? It's the leftist vocabulary. It's a bunch of 19th Century definitions that have remained fossilized
Archimedes Law is over two millennia old. Why are we still using it? Can't we make a new law for 21st century? It applies only within Hellenic circles anyway.

We need someone to come along and rewrite it in entirely modern language, so that students don't need to understand Newtonian physics when they read it, and we don't alienate people with constant misunderstandings of our idiosyncratic use of Force (EVEN NEWTON HAD A DIFFERENT DEFINITION TO DIRAC WTF AAAA)

Basically stop being stubborn hipsters who care more about authenticity (retch) than swimming.

Christian Rivera
Christian Rivera

but his is Anarcho-Capitalism
Anarchy with money =/= ancapism

It was closer to mutualism or anarcho-syndicalism with markets because the workers owned the MoP at the time

Jackson Murphy
Jackson Murphy

The world is going to end up as ethnically isolated communes given enough time if things go right
People that think they are fighting racism are actually just reactionaries to the effects of constant immigration and community busting.
It isn't the lumpenproles that will buold your fair society, because their spooks aren't aimed at progress.

Dominic Cruz
Dominic Cruz

The lesson that you should take from all the two-years-and-die anarchist revolutions is that you need a coherant strategy. And you need a real military and not just guys with guns. And you need a reliable supply chain. And you need to be able to work international politics to your advantage instead of fucking up your relationship with every potential ally in the world.

Julian Jenkins
Julian Jenkins

Sure, it's fascinating if you enjoy navel-gazing and do not mind that you will never actually get anything done apart from complaining about what other people do.

Bentley Parker
Bentley Parker

Let's see. You have leftcoms, trotskyists, syndicalists (anarchy-lite), and probably a couple more obscure brands of marxism. You are right, though. If we could mend the schism between marxists and anarchists, then we could get some shit done.

Joshua Hill
Joshua Hill

At least three.

Don't forget the anarchist revolution in Russia in 1905.

Wyatt Barnes
Wyatt Barnes

market socialism collapses back into capitalism
implying market 'socialism' is ever anything more than capitalism with a human/democratic/ethical face
I'm actually not against the idea of employee ownership of enterprise at all and would consider it one of the best immediate first steps fowards, but it's not socialism.

Hunter Brooks
Hunter Brooks

Anarchy with money =/= ancapism
Anarchy without Socialism == AnCapism

It was closer to mutualism or anarcho-syndicalism with markets because the workers owned the MoP at the time
What are you talking about? It was Civil War at the time. Some owned, some didn't. Makhno was in the south, where White influence was stronger - and workers didn't own anything.

Moreover, Makhno was dealing primarily with peasants, not workers. And "markets" in his case meant predatory lending, grain speculation, and starvation in cities: there was nothing cities could offer to the peasants at the time.

You are telling him he needs Vanguard (people who'll do it all after the Revolution, because existing people that do it are Bourgeois).

But anti-Soviet Anarchists don't believe in Vanguard. Too authoritarian. Which is why their "non-state" devolves into criminal haven and they invariably get "stabbed in the back" by evil Statists who had enough of gangsters militant Anarchists.

Don't forget the anarchist revolution in Russia in 1905.
Wasn't really recognized as Anarchist. I wouldn't call it Anarchist myself.

Besides, it never happened - it was an uprising that failed to take over anything significant.

Isaac Carter
Isaac Carter

enjoy navel-gazing and do not mind that you will never actually get anything done apart from complaining about what other people do.

sounds just like leftism then :^)

Julian Clark
Julian Clark

Why is critiquing the lefts traditional structures of organization "nasal gazing"?

Charles Sullivan
Charles Sullivan

anarchist can't defend themselves
this meme has to end en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emiliano_Zapata

Gavin Thompson
Gavin Thompson

It's not that the left is shitty, but that the workers are dumb and basically pissed away their chance at power a century ago

James Garcia
James Garcia

Feudalism = ancapism. Anarchy + capitalism = fatal contradiction.

You are telling him he needs Vanguard

A state anyway.

There are plenty of reasons to bitch about the stalinists and the maoists, but "they never got anything done" is not one of them.

Ctitique without any constructive proposal for action is nothing more than worthless nagging. The function of the post-leftists is to bitch about leftists while expecting leftists to come up with all the fixes. All they create is noise.

Luke Morales
Luke Morales

Anyone else feel world weary and misanthropic? Perhaps we should focus on destroying the world to spare future generations from its misery.

Christopher Phillips
Christopher Phillips

zapata was not an anarchist m8

Sebastian Reyes
Sebastian Reyes

Is there any revolutionary ideology that is an intermedium between ML and anarchism?

those two things are arguably the biggest split in leftism: do we bring socialism about by seizing the state or by abolishing it?

I guess the in-between would be bringing about socialism by reforming the state, or maybe by seizing it and getting rid of half of it?

Dylan Richardson
Dylan Richardson

Zapata's introduction to anarchism came via Montaño Sánchez – later a general in Zapata's army, executed on May 17, 1917 (by order of Zapata) – who exposed Zapata to the works of Peter Kropotkin and Flores Magón at the same time as Zapata was observing and beginning to participate in the struggles of the peasants for the land.[citation needed]

Luis Nelson
Luis Nelson

Look I have same political compass as you and i'm a tankie

Matthew Hill
Matthew Hill

Yeah, that compass sucks. The problem is that marxists also want stateless, moneyless communism. Even the tankies are anarchists when it comes right down to it, so they always end up in the bottom-left.

Ryan Clark
Ryan Clark

being familiar with anarchism does not make one an anarchist.
Zapata didn't have much of a political education, he only really cared about land reform and peasants rights, not the abolition of the state.

Jackson Young
Jackson Young

because you forgot one thing: Jesus

Jason Perez
Jason Perez

The compass test is largely based on burgerland political standards.

Luke Evans
Luke Evans

being familiar with anarchism does not make one an anarchist. Any short overview of Zapata's role in the Mexican 'revolution' will confirm he is absolutely no anarchist.

Charles King
Charles King

leftcom? deleonism? luxemburgism?

I agree with you tho. It's also a shame that the only relevant leftist schools are either marxist or anarchist.

Owen Evans
Owen Evans

Even the tankies are anarchists
no, they are not. Most of them want the socialist state to perpetuate itself because most of them are extremely ignorant, as they would not be a tankie otherwise.

Elijah Diaz
Elijah Diaz

that's just disingenuous. they're fuckin crazy and evil, but they usually are more well-versed when it comes to history than anarkids. Like race realists versus liberals: if you were to guess, which one of the two has probably read more on genetics and race? Doesn't make them right, but most are smart in a batshit kind of way

Christian Hall
Christian Hall

anarcho-posadism?

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