Doom 3

i love this hating games meem too

Doom 3 was not what Doomers expected, and that is the source of the butthurtedness. It was more of a survival horror game than it was a run and gun like its predecessors.

Quake is a game that doesn't know wtf it wants to be. Quake 1 was IIRC supposed to be a fantasy RPG that got cut down to essentially a full 3D Doom-like run and gun in a fantasy setting. Quake 2 had the Doom-like cyber/occult theme, but can hardly be considered a true Quake sequel. Then we get to Quake 3 which is when the "series" takes a huge shit on itself and becomes a full-blown AIDS arena shooter obviously designed around Mortal Kombat in SPESH.

Quake 4… I remember I think it used IdTech 4 (Doom 3 engine) which was breddy gud, but the story was horse shit "the Borg is gonna getcha". I think I played it right up until you get Borgified, and then became bored.

Doom 4 picks up where Quake 3 left off, and then bastardized itself with strains of Doom 3. Doom 4 looks essentially like Doom 3, but locked in an "arena only" progression mode that can suck a gay nigger GRIDS dick.

...

Nu-Doom blows Doom 3 out of the water. Doom 3 is a failure on every level. An absolutely terrible game.

Doom 4 is even slower than Doom 3. The "rip and tear" healing mechanic is just a disguised regenerating health. Have fun with your casual reskinned Halo(TM).

I think you mis-replied to me. I have never, and will never play GRIDS 4. Not even a scurv edition. I don't like arena shooters, and it's a fucking shame most of the multiplayer "games" I see getting a lot of hype are really fucking retarded and cartoony arena games. The cancer has spread across platforms too as I see the same garbage on consoles and PC.

BFG edition was downgraded?

GTA4. Chinatown Wars and Red Dead kicks its ass, but as soon as 5 came out people gave it another chance.

Also Far Cry 2 after 3 and 4 came out.

Can't use mod and forced vaseline filter and shitt effects that were done better by mods with halved FPS o top of that because the engine is shit.

doom 3 is a bland, overly long, mediocre game and doesn't look good in any light. There are also many modern games that are far better than it.

Actually Doom 3 was received fairly well, mostly because of graphics and immershun. Only years later when HL2 established dominance, people started with the hate (well deserved).

Can't say much about Invisible War, I think the complaints about loading times and UI are completely cretin (muh conshole port). But I still dropped the game early because the world was completely uninteresting.

Shogo and Alien Vs Predator had healing finishers. The mechanic is overused, but has nothing to do with regen health. (boy you sure a leet gamr if you hate on halo though)

hl2 came out in the same year, and that with halo 2 showed off much, much better games. Hate? no lol.

...

halo 1 and halo 2 are some of the best early-mid 00's shooters

But NuDoom was better than Doom 3.

Get in line kid, we've heard that shit a billion times in 10 years. If anything, I'm more distrustful of someone who can't separate a game from its community. And can't admit that sometimes a bad game can be fun, and no one has to make you apologize for that.

I liked it but the atmosphere and game play didn't feel like doom. It probably would have made for a decent alien/colonial marine type game.

Better but not really a match for the first two games. I never felt threatened. And the wubwub thinly veiled arena sections got boring.

Nightmare mode doesn't help close the gap either; but to be fair I played doom 2 when I was like 12. It'd probably be a bit easier now.

It would have been better to just make the demons faster instead of having them teleport around like a bunch of third rate night crawlers.

Also the AI does dumb shit like trying to climb platforms, delayed reactions, and outright turning their backs on you. Getting swarmed by imps isn't really an issue if they are doing everything in their power to get as far away from you as they can (presumably so they can throw their easily avoidable fireball). I don't think a hell knight ever laid a hand on me with their one(?) easily avoidable attack etc…etc…

Except finishes in AvP was shit like head tongue bursts and trophy kills, which fit thematically with AvP. Preds and aliums do eat their prey.
Where the fuck does rip and tear fit into healing doom marine?

His holy armor suit heals him when he uses it to kill demons, somehow the holy armor suit also feels when you are low on health and decides to heal you more than usual
I am totally making this up but it could probably be real considering doomguy is now an ancient evil

Implying Invisible War was better than Human revolution

DooM 4 is WAY better than 3

You contrarians will go to these lenghts to look retarded, lol

Here we have anons who like piss filters

thats some esxtremely weak baitposting, at least refrain from using animu images, its too obvious

They are different genres of games, but even so Doom 3 has a lot more meat to it.

The fatality doesn't heal you directly, it makes the enemy drop a 5 hp item. In Shogo headshots would reward you health directly.

Nigga it's a completely different type of shooter but it had more charm than the corporate meme game that is nuDOOM.

You can tell that whatever chucklefuck designed nuDOOM saw a bunch of memes about doom guy being a badass and tried too hard to make the game like that.

You just run from arena to arena, fight a few waves of enemies that just teleport in for no reason, do a bit of platforming because that always works great with FPS games and move on to the next arena.

Also the shooting and enemies feel a lot closer to Halo than a DOOM with the spongy enemies that jump around everywhere.

Honestly, it's not. Early reports, here, made it look like it was Borderlands. I believed it and had to wait until CPY got past denuvo, to try it myself.

The memeing was a single splashscreen at the beginning, which is poor taste but literally lasts 3 seconds. What comes after is uneven and sometimes poor, but for completely different reasons. Singleplayer has godly exploration and mapping that shits all over any other modern linear shooter. However, combat is broken too much by fatalities and the fact that 70% of the fights are L4D's horde events just makes everything feel disjointed.

At least get your facts straight.

Did you forget the endless speeches about what an unmitigated badass le Doomslayer is?

Did you forget how forced the parts where he broke the glowing tubes were?

The game is full of shit like that.

You'd rather play a game with inferior gameplay because of color correction? That's pretty autistic. Your bait is supposed to sound plausible.

Why do you care about the story? That's the last thing I cared about.

Well, we were talking about the meme shit.

Besides, if they care so little about the story that they mocked it by having le Doomslayer break comm equipment when given exposition, then why do you get still locked into long unskippable exposition cutscenes multiple times throughout the game?

I don't know about Doom but Invisible War is fucking trash and Human Revolution is a way better game.

Also, Doom 3 was well received, of course, it wasn't as good as HL2 but it was still considered a good game.

You're just a faggot that hates everything that is new and probably didn't even play those two games when they came out.

I could understand why someone would think this, if they had not played Gothic, Turrican, Postal 2, Super Metroid, or Ultima Underworld, on top of thinking that dividing the game into clear chunks of exploration and combat is the way to go rather than seamlessly integrating the two like OG Doom did.

the odd thing is that the layout during the exploration sections would make for interesting levels, but instead all the action happens in mini-Unreal Tournament maps which just aren't suitable for this kind of game

To be fair, none of those listed games for exploration are supposed to be fast paced

And yes, nudoom isn't doom paced, but it sure as heck isn't super metroid paced.

Also the game is lacking landmarks, making it easy to get lost.

Games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne can have quite intricate level design and you never get lost because it's full of landmarks. nuDOOM has pretty labyrinthine but often reuses visuals too much across the level, making it confusing to navigate, which is especially a chore here since, like you said, all the combat is reserved for the wave spawning arenas. In OG Doom despite the simpler mapping tools the enemies and their corpses could themselves serve as landmarks, you'd quickly recognize the enemies you killed even if the area was lacking in visual variety.

Doom 3 had a really good engine for its time. Has anyone outside of Bethesd-id even used the newer idtech engines?

I feel that was a joke about the character more than anything else. The game is obviously not made with the audience that actually resonates with the joke in mind, thus it is much shittier than it could have been.

Actually yes, I didn't even take those in consideration because 1. it's irrelevant details and 2. the game has really no story. Don't make a big deal out of nothing like a sperg.

Christ dude, next thing you'll tell me the game isn't Shadow of the Colossus. Get out of the cuckchan mindset: a game's qualities can be uneven, with a godly one and another shitty side to it. Only kids need to whine that their favorite\hated game HAS TO BE 100% bad. NuDoom has great levels with tons of alternate routes, climbing and secrets like no other game as of late.

Personally if I were to categorize its general gameplay (outside of the hordes), then I would say it's a mix between Quake 2 and Turok: floaty jammy fights, and much jumping.

The Evil Within and it didn't end up well. Heavy and bad textures.

never understood this tbh

Quake 4 wasn't a perfect game but it was still a solid sequel to 2 and a much better game than Doom 3. For a variety of reasons

The weapons in Doom 3 were dogshit. Half go unused. The fists are never used, the pistol is unused after the shotgun is found. The shotgun makes most of the arsenal redundant. The machinegun is sort of useful but is made obsolete by the chaingun. It also has one of the worst weapon sounds. The Plasma rifle is okay but the damage and general usefulness leaves something to be desired. I only ever used the shotgun, chaingun and rocket launcher and never used any other gun in that game.

Wheras in Quake 4 apart from the blaster (which was just a holdover from Quake 2) I used and really liked every single weapon. The machine gun was really useful since it was really accurate and could scope in on targets. Also it had the most ammunition in the game. The shotgun was really damaging but was limited with how slow it reloaded. The nailgun was like the chaingun in Doom 3 and got the most upgrades for things like ammunition and eventually also got an upgrade for homing in on targets. Etc. The only gun I'd say wasn't that great in Quake 4 was the rocket launcher

The levels in Doom 3 didn't suit an action game. They were really claustraphobic, had almost no flow and the lighting was shit. It suited a Resident Evil style game more than an action game.

Whereas the levels in Quake 4 were all atmospheric and well lit. The only downside to the game was that it had pointless vehicle sections. Apart from that it was a joy to play compared to Doom 3

The game actually gets better after that point. You only got through the first 1/3rd of the game

After that the player starts fighting way harder enemies. Like enemies that use railguns, more powerful enemies that fire rockets etc. The exposition to the story also gradually stops as you enter more levels where you're mostly alone and the story is just in the background. During the final 1/3rd of the game it's just an endurance where you go from location to location mowing down dudes before heading to the final boss fight.

Is Quake 4 a perfect game? Absolutely not. I don't think it was even as good as some other games from around the same time like F.E.A.R. Or even the original. The multiplayer was also absolute garbage so I can see why people were disappointed at the time. But it was still a solid attempt by Raven to make another Quake game.

Modding is my fetish and I think it wouldn't take much to fix NuDoom's campaign. First, remove or nerf the horde events (a single wave of top tier mobs should be enough). Second, add normal spawns through the levels like in the original.

quake 2 used to be id's worst game until doom 3, and quake 4 was mostly more of the same of doom 3 but with turret sections.

It's garbage.

And I fucking hated Oblivion when it came out.

Game where you mostly use your flashlight and fight enemies that just hide in dark parts of the levels

Action game where you fight mobs of enemies like in Quake 2

Admittedly it was a really shit game at the time when it first came out. It was only after mods that it became playable.

Holy fucking shit, how much of a mainstream hating hipster do you have to be to think those games were that bad. If I had to get stuck in a room for the rest of my life with either them or their sucessor I would pick the new ones in heartbeat, though I would prefer the original ones if possible.

Posting the OG bad game worse sequel example

Remember the flashlight mod for Doom 3?

"mobs of enemies like in quake 2"
nigger you're never fighting more than a handful of samey looking strogg bullet sponges in quake 2. quake 2 is indefensibly bad. quake 4 is shit too. Eat shit, faggot.

I'm sure glad the original DOOM didn't have anything like that.

Yeah, which was incorporated into Quake 4 by default

It's funny talking about the flashlight in Doom 3 since when it first released, people hated it. Then when the BFG edition released, people hated that version because it made the flashlight a toggle and made the art style "redundant". It's just a terribly designed game that was made to show off the lighting effects.

Quake 4 had way more variety in it's monster design

A-are you trolling? I honestly can't tell, but it seems like you're trolling… Yeah I'm pretty sure this a troll statement.

It's my fault the developers made it such a shit mashup story that bored me into quitting? Ok. I guess it's my fault I don't like uninspired shit that was marketed as some sort of sequel. Which if you actually read what I wrote above: Quake doesn't know wtf type of game it wants to be. It sums up the Quake "series" perfectly.

As I stated Quake 1 was originally designed as an RPG and cut down to be more like Doom: run-and-gun + find-a-key pregression. Quake 2 was more of the same, but completely changed the theme to cyber. Quake 3 changed again to an arcade-style arena shooter. I'm supposed to think Quake 4 was a good "sequel" based on what? The fact I have to play more than 1/3 to enjoy the fucking thing? How about, no. The engine is solid, the graphics are good, the play feels decent, but the game itself told a really boring, uninspired story. Instead of drawing me back in it did a better job of pushing me away. Oh and multiplayer was a fucking abomination. This I think accelerated my abanonment since Quake1-3 deathmatch was a source of great fun (I still host QW TDM, CTF, and RA servers).

They could have named Quake 4 literally anything else, and I probably wouldn't shit on it so much. Sticking that brand name on it was a cash-grab plain and simple.

You can't comprehend bad vidya levels? Srsly?

Nah it's your parents for raising a retard

Yeah and Wolfenstein 3D was originally a stealth game and Doom was originally a story driven game with cutscenes and actual plot progression. Id always had an issue with what they wanted their games to be

Based on Quake 2. The game it's a direct sequel to. Can't you read?

It's not my fault you have the attention span of the average millennial

Literally the same fucking game just one has better graphics than the other. And with the piss filter even that is debateable.

...

Oblivion was a failed tech demo for Radiant AI, which ended up being butchered.

The only reason to play those games is to enjoy the graphics.

New Doom was good.

It's certainly a shitload less boring than Doom 3, even with the stupid level design.

Thief 3.
The game is largely okay-meh-tier levels with a bland, uninteresting sandbox hub area concept connecting them… But it has an amazing late-game level (the only one that ever gets fucking mentioned), a solid enough story and the gameplay isn't actually BAD, it's just not as strong as the last two games (which isn't a surprise when your sound system is worse, so you include a third person camera and the result is you have to wait on third person animation shit in first person).

This is all still hundreds of times better than fucking Thief 4, which is so bad even the usually shit eating reviewers wouldn't defend it, since goddamn is it limited, annoying, boring and just not finished.

YES IT WAS
At least Doom 3 wasn't Halo.

Doom 3 is worse than Halo.

Human Revolution has shit for multiple paths, it's not even a Deus Ex game.

So is MooM DooD.

No, it really wasn't.

I legitimately had more fun playing Doom than Halo 1 and 2. Better aesthetics, no weapon limit, and more gore.

...

ok you didn't have make it THAT obvious. you could have at least at least attempted to keep up the charade.

BAZOOPERS!

The game continues the same story, references the events of Quake 2, takes place in the same setting, and shares many of the same monsters

This is like how Metal Gear Solid 4 is a direct sequel to Metal Gear Solid 2. It continues from where the second game ended instead of the third game, because that was a prequel.

Wolfenstein 09 was pretty cool. I'm kinda salty we didn't get more of that. I mean, it wasn't that it was so good, but it had some charm to it and I enjoyed it.

I agree. There's plenty wrong with Wolfenstein '09 and Quake 4, but they're not bad games.

They suffer from a case where their previous game(s) were better. That doesn't make them bad, it only means they had a high bar set for them.

I think that it's often an unfair way to judge games. Yes they should improve between iterations, but that doesn't mean that a failure to improve makes a game inherently bad.

That's a lot of words for "4 comes directly after 2, what the fuck is a 3?"

NuDoom is an objectively better game than Doom 3, in spite of all it's shortcomings and retarded game design decisions.

Deus Ex HR and MD don't make IW look good, predictions made from IW make IW look closer to Deus Ex in terms of that third layer Ross talked about. IW is still a shit game in all gameplay respects relative to HR.

Fucking leafy

I'm calling troll. If you're trolling, 10/10 you fucking got everyone.

If you're not trolling and legit believe Doom 3 or Invisible War are better than the games that came after them, you may want to talk to your mom about her drinking while she was pregnant.

Doom 3 is better than nudoom. Invisible war has some charm but its not as good as deus ex the best game ever and its not as good as human revolution.

Nudoom just feels so hollow to me so unexciting. I also am not a big fan of doom 3. The orginal doom games haven't really been close to matched you sanctimonious bastard.

I played the entire campaign (and I rarely finish games). The second half of it playing in hell is great and the expansion (with the double-barreled shotgun) kicks ass - I occasionally replay it.
I really liked the atmosphere of Doom3 and its pacing as a horror survival game was just perfect. A memorable experience for sure.
I also like and play Ultimate Doom, Doom 2 and Final Doom since 1993.
I quickly got bored by the NuDoom demo and I hated the Multiplayer Beta.

...

Doom 3 was good but I slightly enjoyed Quake 4 more. Both are games well worth playing.

You clearly didn't grow up during the time of Quake 2, it exploded in popularity far exceeding that of the original. The success of Quake 2 as a platform for various mods is what paved the way for other games, the mechanics and design are positively antiquated by today's standards, but it was instrumental in advancing the FPS genre.

I played quake 2 at the time of its launch, and replayed it a few years ago, and I can assure you it's a terrible game, worse than quake world for multiplayer, worse than quake 1 for sp, hell, worse than most shooters around the time for sp.

It's a shitty game, and that's all that matters.

Quake 2 was good you faggot.

sure, if you like back tracking, samey level design, bad level design, garbage enemy design, prevalence of hitscan enemies and bullet sponge enemies, awful and ineffective feeling weapons, and being a worse game in every way compared to its original.

Also if you like crates. Holy shit does quake 2 have a lot of crates.

It was poorly received by fans anyway and with good reason. Slapping the Sneaky Upgrade on to Deadly Shadows really makes it shine but even without it it's far and away superior to 4.

I like crates a lot.

...

...

If you ignore the 6th generation version which was actually pretty damn good Double Agent was shit. Then came Conviction…

Wow, OP, do you have an edgelord bullshit quota you gotta fulfill?

I hate that this game gets so much hate. Yeah, it's not as good as Deus Ex, but if you were to remove the ties to Deus Ex (Which are surprisingly small) you've got a decent game.

People hate the shared ammo system, I like it. It makes you actually think about your weapon ussage. Higher powered weapons will consume more ammo, so going in blazing RPG and swapping to shotgun might screw you over instead of planning out what weapons to use and the best way to use them.

Plus the rag-dolling was amazing,

But the game is still pretty shit, I mean when I try running it now it opens a new window for every area I go into. What kind of batshit programming is that? I'm not kidding a new fucking window every single time! Jesus fuck!

I think the shared ammo system was just incorporated so that players wouldn't have to switch from their favorite weapon and could just keep using the same weapon throughout the game.

I remember that's mostly how I played it. Just using the SMG and the sniper rifle because I basically needed nothing else.

I remember everyone bashing the game for being wacky like serious sam instead of having dark demonic places and the really imbalanced difficulty

if only they knew what future is going to bring, they would be licking it's boots. Thankfully russian modders fixed all of the games after originals as Supernatural

Thanks Todd

...

Human Derpolution really was that bad. It was to Deus Ex what The Force Awakens was to Star Wars.

the shit present doesn't make shit games retroactively good

Read the OP.

Are you retarded, Eidos made an objectively better sequel than Ion Storm did

HR has:

It's the better game it just doesn't understand the subtlety and themes of Deus Ex and overall kills the Deus Ex lore, although IW was already heading in that direction anyway, and it's themes and story don't compare to the original.

Kill yourself

my point still stands.

Why do you lie? Everything from level design to character progression sucked in HR. Every complaint ever made against IW is also applicable to HR except the universal ammo, only HR has a pissfilter, a shit story and more bad stuff to pile on the existing issues.

The PS2/XBox release also has a pretty fantastic LAN multiplayer component.

Putting the word objectively in front of things does not actually make the objective truths.

Level design, for example, is equally poor over both games: you can go sneaky route, loud route and every now and then social route and that's your lot. Human Revolution makes every mistake IW did it just makes them with current technology rather than older tech. It still has console-required loading screens inserted into the Chinese hub, for example. Calling IW terrible and HR good is inconsistent even before we dig into nitpicks like the piss-filter or the prequel tech being far in advance of DX1's.

It was great all around. Nice easter eggs too, my favourite being the Navy Seals.

...

If you still have a copy for either console me and a few spergs occasionally play it tunneled via xbslink in the weekends.

I'm afraid I don't even have a console to play it on nowadays. Good to hear there's still people enjoying it though.

Those elements do suck but HR sure beats the shit out of Invisible War.

Piss filter as a problem doesn't compare to the shit PC port of IW that forces the game to shutdown to load new levels, the miniscule levels that are laughable at best, sometimes I can't even believe that they put me through a level load, I just got in the fucking lobby ffs.

It's not equally poor, they are both poor but IW is easily the lesser game between the two in the bulk of the game, the gameplay.

HR has more nuance in character progression in spite of the ample character upgrades points available and upgrade paths not locking you out of other upgrade paths, there are just far more options for building your character, IW has what 5 or 6 aug slots and that's it, but on top of that you don't get any skills and I don't remember the game having weapon mods.

You get weapon upgrades and far more variety of weapons with lethal/nonlethal and stealth/power, which completely eclipses the variety in IW

Levels are sprawlier, there are more routes within levels in HR than in IW, and there is more content you can find yourself locked out of, there are ways to completely ignore sections of a level but because of the games design you generally find yourself taking them on anyway so you can get all the content. On top of this levels are plainly laid out better, although it loses points for turning areas that should just be areas into chest high wall shooting arenas, that's shit.

The loading screens are about the same as Deus Ex original and aren't anywhere near the issue they were in IW, and on top of this there is far more content within hubs in HR.

I never said HR was good, I just said it was better, I don't even like HR and would rather HR had never existed and Deus Ex had been abandoned, and personally I prefer all the story elements of IW but HR beats it in the gameplay department and that's the part that matters.

This is called dumbing down.

Also, I don't know how the shooty parts are since I play sneaky but the stealth was a huge step down since it was casualized to hell. Both the third-person view and the sticky chest high walls that made you invisible made the game way too easy.

HR also suffers from the same issues that plagued Dishonored, sure you have a ton of powers and ways of tackling enemies but they make the game easymodo. In Dishonored you only ever really needed blink and that was OP in itself. In HR you always have a handy went nearby.

More like Masterpieceofshit

I'm not sure you know what 'in spite of' means. Also being locked out of upgrade paths can be a good thing in actually forcing you to have a build instead of taking everything you want. Additionally a hell of a lot of HR's skills are little % increases to things here and there. Filler skills =/= depth.

HR does have skills either.
It has mods and those mods are often more imaginative than those in HR (again mostly little % increases). Also unique variants of weapons that are hidden around. Additionally you're limited to two instead of HR's approach that gives you game-breakingly good guns like the suppressed armour-piercing pistol. Certainly I don't think you can claim HR's character progression system is 'objectively better' and both games are inferior to DX1.

Again IW has upgrades.
Bullshit: deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons_(DXHR) deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Weapons_in_Deus_Ex:_Invisible_War
I'll grant HR has a little more in the way of weapons but IW's weapons all have a secondary fire and again mods can change their performance radically. Also a lot of HR's guns are samey (silenced sniper and sawed off in particular) and it has less variety with grenades. 'Completely eclipses' is a massive, massive overstatement.

True only of the hubs and even then they're pretty damn linear. Frankly the Detroit hub is tiny and mostly empty space you might walk through once on a side-mission. Actual missions are equally poor over both games. While on the subject of level design IW had more interesting levels from a thematic or aesthetic point of view than the frankly generic shit in HR. DX was always partly about world-hopping while HR has only two fucking hubs in the entire game. IW even did revisiting hubs better.

DX1's levels are far more detailed and it was a hardware limitation at the time. HR's levels are much emptier and again it's a console limitation forced on PC players (something IW gets endless flak for). I expect an actual fucking improvement with over a decade of advances in hardware.

Writing is a large part of DX1's greatness and indeed the quality of an RPG in general. IW beats HR hands down with some parts even comparable to DX1's better ideas (NG Resonance being the obvious example).

ME2

A quick look tells me IW has 6 augmentation slots, 5 of which you pick. Each of those 5 has three possible augmentations of level 1-3. The majority are activated skills or drones that can have pretty major effects and you actually have to choose carefully since they can lock other paths out (note you can change augments as and when you like but it costs upgrade cannisters so you're never locked into one path). Picrelated is HR's skill screen. Sure doesn't look like a deep system to me and, as you yourself pointed out, it doesn't lock paths out. You could even consider the entire armour tree to just be % stat increases too frankly.

That's 15 possible augmentations each one being of levels 1-3.

It was a definite departure from the more action oriented predecessors, having far fewer enemies on the screen at a time and much more narrow areas. It was also panned for being dark as fuck and you can't hold a flashlight and shoot at the same time. It does a pretty good job of building atmosphere, but there's also a shit ton of jump scares, and overall awkward fights (it doesn't help that the camera spazzes out every time you get hit).

Basically it's like if serious sam 3 had been a system shock 2 clone.

No one shat on Doom 3, when it came out. It was celebrated for being scary, and top of the line graphically. I reckon it is still one of the most atmospheric FPS out there.

Nostalgiafags don't know, because back then they were still playing on their first console. In the end, it was a very different game and one to be judged according to its own merits, not in comparison to its prequels. (I found it supremely boring, but still managed to beat it)

It tries to do everything deus ex did, to a lesser extent. Take the datacubes/books, they're still in IW, but there's only a couple of sentences in each. The problem is that this makes it feel very superficial, rather than add a feeling of depth to the world. The level design has the same problem.

It might have been a better game if it wasn't a deus ex game, but not only because the end product was weighed against DX1. It spreads itself too thin trying to bring in all the elements from the first one, so they all turn out half-baked. If it had been designed as its own thing they could have focused on a few aspects/mechanics and polished those instead.

As for the ammo system, the beef I have with it is that you always either have ammo for the ideal gun in any situation, or none at all. You're never forced to improvise or pick your fights/plan them out ahead of time. Combined multitools/lockpics have the same problem - you never think "better go for the door here so I can save a multitool for the electric floor panel later" when they both do the same. You either have enough for what you're planning, or not.

Doom 3 did cop flak back in the day. People complained about the confined maps, the lack of mobs and the few enemies that could be rendered at once, and the shit multiplayer.

Human Revolution was a let down, but still better than IW

It got criticism, but wasn't considered a shit game. Realize that there was no Fear back then, Doom 3 was the posterchild for scary FPS.

Having every aug known and available from the start was balls, tbh. As was getting XP for kills and exploring ventilation systems rather than completing objectives. Being able to actually get every aug at the same time was even worse since it kills specialization - you always end up with the same build 3/4 through the game.

It made stealth far too easy with the radar, thirdperson view and wallhack aug (which was OP even in the first game.) The guards are also a little bit too rigid in their patrol routes for there to be much real tension - sometimes they'll look over their shoulder to see if you're sneaking up on them, but they always do it at the exact same point in their patrols so it's not like you could ever be caught by it. It would have been great if they'd do it at random, at least on the highest difficulty. Same with never varying their routes or having roaming patrols. Combined with the radar, it means stealth in HR is about as challenging as going shopping without shitting yourself.

*fixed

You're memes are pretty old son, I take it you come from 4chan?

Fuck you. Doom 3 was the shit.

Gearing up for the release of new Doom, I decided to play through all of the Doom games again (Ultimate Doom > Doom II > Final Doom > Doom 3 > RoE), but going back to Doom 3 after not playing it for years made me realize it was fucking trash. All of the weapons are shit. The shotgun in particular is as effective as a wet sneeze if you aren't at point blank range. The submachine gun is one of the worst weapons I've ever used in an FPS and they give you so much fucking ammo for it, essentially forcing you to use it. The enemy designs are terrible, most of the monster cast look like generic grey-skinned aliens. The movement speed of is not indicative of an action game, and none of the spooky parts are remotely indicative of a horror game. The pitch black "lighting", while an impressive technical feat, is horribly suited for an action FPS. The "find PDAs and listen to audio logs to get locker codes for necessary supplies" gimmick is terrible. Doom 3's story is also terrible, a shitty retelling of Doom 1's plot with a bunch of unnecessary characters and NPC interactions. There is only one good level in the game, the Hell level, and you only get to visit it once before being dumped back into the same boring square grey hallways you'd been walking through for the previous 4 hours. The Grabber gun in the RoE expansion tells you everything: Doom 3 was trying to be a spooky Half-Life but failed at everything that game did well, as well as fail at being a competent game on it's own. It's slow, you can't see shit, it's not fun to shoot guns and kill bad guys, it's not fun to explore the levels, the story sucks, the characters suck, the whole thing just sucks. Doom 3 is a bad game, even without comparing it to other Doom games.

Did you play the original release or the BFG edition? THIS IS IMPORTANT

Do you post message on your mom's Facebook account with that keyboard user?

With comparisons like this, you could also say that Doom 3 was more of a Surgeon Simulator 2013 than a Cooking Mama. Doom 3 is neither a run and gun, nor a survival horror; however, it pretended to be many other things it wasn't: it wasn't a good horror story, it wasn't a successor to Doom, it wasn't a good FPS (enemies are such bullet sponges that the only viable tactic is to rush with the shotgun and blow your load point-blank, right in their face). Back then Tim Willits even implied you could be able to freely visit the station similarly to System Shock 2 (from which it also borrowed the PDA thing), when in the final game, you just roamed linear hallways till you found the exit elevator while dodging spooky skeletons popping out of closet, sometimes getting killed by surprise because of an exploding barrel hiding in the dark.

Doom 3 was extremely well received though.

Objectively speaking nuDoom has more Doom like level design than Doom 3.
You thought the enemy count of nuDoom was bad? Don't even touch Doom 3. Weapons are underpowered and the level design is so cramped you don't encounter more than 5 enemies at a time.

...

Every zelda game is garbage until the next iteration pops up.

Oh yeah this reminds me of how simplified the shooting is in Doom 3.
You barely have any movement options and most of the time you will be sitting there trading hits with the enemies. Not even Serious Sam is this basic and that is a game which has a section where you just fight 500 enemies of the same type in a curving hallway.

Are you retarded?

I actually liked it, though postponing release to put it on wii and then releasing it on wii first and not giving the option to use normal controls was ass move

Eh?
nuDoom was better than Doom 3. Doom 3 was very far from the first 2 Doom games, was more like a shitty horror game rather than a fast-paced action game with a bit of a horror atmosphere and tension to it.

If I want to play a horror FPS, there are better games out there. nuDoom did what it had to do better.

If anyone has the DOOM general OP pic, it would be much appreciated.

I have had a massive desire to play the original DOOM's again, and possibly a few modded versions as well.

Inb4 there is a V8

Every Elder Scrolls game ever made.

The majority of people hated Oblivion when it came out in comparison to Morrowind, and then Skyrim was released and it took the shitstain that is modern Beth to a whole new level of ass. I wonder if they'll out do themselves again with ES6

nice thanks matey

...

Only console plebs hated that game

The original release. I pirated it back in 2004.

it was a bad game with boring missions on every platform.

...

Ya'know, after playing Skyrim. I really, really missed playing Oblivion.

I thought Oblivion was, overall, a better game then Skyrim was.

Now, when Skywind comes out, I'll be a happy camper.

You are objectively wrong.

Doom4 is just circle areas connected by hallways. If you want to prove me otherwise, go play your game and noclip to the top of the level and take screenshots.

Yeah, and if you the same for Doom 3 you will see entirely linear hallways with no interconnectedness. At least new Doom has some semblance interconnectedness. Of course, you would know this if you actually played the game.

Remember kids ! When you enter Holla Forums, don't forget to hate on DOOM, Halo and all the other "casual" games! Even if you don't have arguments or haven't even played them, you'll look cool to the epic true gamers on the board!

where's the screen shots dude? you're not being objective. I'm not going to touch that shit, but since you're defending the game like a bitch I'm guessing you have the game on the hard drive? So why don't you be a good little boy and take those screen shots

Invisible War had a classroom of killable lolis with ragdoll bodies.

Human Rev had a pick-a-button ending.

One of these is clearly superior.

This pleased me.

When did it become popular to bash Deus Ex:HR? Obviously it wasn't as good as the original, but compared to 99% of the utter shit the gaming industry pushes out these days it was fantastic.

Is this a joke? While Doom3 was in a different subgenre than Doom2 gameplay-wise, it clearly followed the design of the original in all departments, including artwork and soundtrack.
While Doom4 shits on all of this.

...

It's more that the bar *should* be so much higher by now, they had such a marvellously twisty, all encompassing headfucky story in DX1 that it distracted us from the fact that it handled like a shopping cart with a wonky wheel.

In HR the handling is better but the story isn't good enough, pretty much everyone is who they say they are, the rug isn't pulled out from under you like it is in DX1, you're not left feeling cast adrift from the guys you start with so much and since we kind of know where it was heading the plot felt more like it was predetermined, everything feels like it has softer edges. Whereas In DX1 you had the experience of seeing behind the veil that all the mad conspiracy stories you could think of were in fact all the same one and all true. It wtf'd you again and again right up until the endings, there was no predicting that storyline.

HR feels smaller, you feel shoved down one route with only the odd bit of nuance shaping the experience, the build is always samey and the ending is such a Mass Effect 3 style pisser to boot.

It *could* have been so much better, it could have been a bigger, better sexier Deus Ex but it didn't have much intrigue, you didn't go to sleep thinking 'What the fuck is coming next?' after a 4 hour session. It just kind of meh'd it's way along.

Legit as fuck.

triggered nu-male spotted

Am I the only one who likes 2 as much as 1?

Great argument you got here fellow Holla Forums member! Well done!

I can smell your goony stench just by reading your posts. People only dislike bad games because they want to fit in, rite? You're so smart and unique for figuring this out but most importantly you're totally above everyone else.

Invisible war wasn't awful, it was just lackluster compared to the original. If it had come out as a standalone deal, not being compared to Deus Ex I think people wouldn't have memed it back then.

No, my point is that people hating on those games don't have arguments, because most of the time they didn't play it, this thread is full of people proving my point, I didn't even liked DOOM that much.

15 years later you STILL mad

I think monsters in nuDoom has more design cues from the original game than Doom 3. The soundtrack is just an industrial version of OG Doom. Neither game shitted on the original Doom, but Doom 4 is closer tbh.

I have an idea.
poal.me/3zs4aw

still wating on those doom 4 MAP screen shots.

so much for supporting your game if you can't be bothered to play it.

doom 4 is SHIT, objectively. until you can prove otherwise

still waiting on those screenshots dude, you clearly have the game in your possession. I'm not wasting my money on garbage but you can gift me if you want and I'll do an objective analysis.

of truth

Oh fuck, of course.

Did you forget that the weapons are terrible?

Deus Ex didn't really have that many alternate routes either unless you consider picking a different door a alternate path in which case human revolution did the same thing.

Invisible war was pretty awful regardless. The only thing it did well is a much more coherent story that was mostly just a retelling of the first game's themes.

I see you also followed my advice, great! Welcome to Holla Forums, have fun on this epic board!

I accept people blindly hating Halo tough. Those games are just trash.

I'm glad user thinks I'm cute.

kill yourself

a reddit user who can't read, of course!

buy me the game and I can do your job for you of providing evidence to Doom 4 fans claims. I mean how hard is it to noclip to the top of the level and take a screenshot? Is it so non linear that your mind gets confused and you go straight to defending the game on 8ch?

waiting on those screenshots of Doom4 being non-linear

We have IDs here so you can see I'm not the one who argued the point with you. Also feel free to pirate it and try for yourself instead of shamelessly begging for a game you so desperately want to try. Until then your opinion is worthless ignorance.

For what it's worth both games had corridor sections and more "open" sections, but Doom had more open ones than Doom 3.

screenshots fagget

A screenshot wouldn't prove anything about being linear or not. Also I think I agreed with you a bit at least.

What do you mean by linear or not linear?

go get them yourself if you want to prove a point faggot

Ok.

Overall I like 2 as much as 1 (if not more) in posterity, yes. Got very fond memories of the first but I'm a big Almafag and prefer the locales and set pieces of the second game more even if it's a dumbed down in terms of physics, combat, etc.

The first one has some really memorable aspects and was closer to actually being "scary" at points but a lot of it is a major slog through office buildings.

you're defending the game like it's your waifu yet you can't be bothered to boot it up and take screenshots at the top of the map with noclip. how retarded are you? guess what, downloading a game takes hours. You can take a few screenshots in five minutes instead of wasting your time argueing with me. You could prove me wrong with screenshots proving the game isn't a linear piece of shit with arenas inbetween, but no you SAGE! me as if it hurts my feelings.

...

Are you seriously so fucking retarded you can't:
1 - See the hypocrisy in your statements
2 - Understand IDs?

Either way I'm glad my comment triggered you

IT'S RIGHT HERE YOU DOUBLE NIGGER, SHEESH

still waiting on screen shots to prove the original claim

sage does nothing

Furthermore
Did you think it'd magically download faster if someone gifted the game to you? Do you think buying gives you magical powers?

This is too funny.

(wasted)

Don't sage. Let everyone have a laugh at his stupid ass getting roasted

Here you go. Absolute proof that Doom4 is a sandbox open world and Doom 3 is nothing but corrodors. Case closed forever.

I was going to agree with you and elaborate your point you were unable to elaborate yourself, until you started acting like a massive fucking faggot. Seriously, sit yourself down.

pathetic, try reading and putting some effort in next time. I like how you're getting mad over such a simple matter.

Doom 3's level design is very classic Doom-ish, but it was also linear. The game guided you with enemies. Imps would act as breadcrumbs: if you're going the right way, imps and other demons will spawn in your path.

NuDoom's level design is more classic Doom because you can use the map to guide yourself (the Foundry level is especially like this) instead of using the markers. The markers don't appear on the map, only on the compass, so they can give you a rough idea of where to go but you have to use the map to find your way there.

I think you got enough humiliation for a day. Take a break.

It doesn't matter where the screenshots come from. Here's more at random. Doom 3 is solely comprised of corridors, while Doom 4 is only wide open levels 100% of the time. Here's even a level map proving my point.

Or what he says here for the real answer.

Napoleon was a good sequel. The campaign was much smaller but the mechanics were overall better. No idea about Shogun 2 though. Quit Steam before playing it.

How tough is it to live with autism?

finally someone with some logic in their brains. that's all I asked for.

doom4 will take some time to download but that's interesting about the map, doom 3 had no map from what I remember.

Did someone buy it for you?

This was a good explanation. I'm glad you understand now.

Original Doom was nothing but corridors, because the engine couldn't render anything else.
Quake 4 then demonstrated what idTech 4 could do.

Doom 4 is a fun game. Don't get health upgrades, only ammo and armor. Eventually, even on the highest difficulty, it becomes piss easy if you've got 150 armor and 200 HP.

Don't glory kill, either. It doesn't give you a significant advantage (only +5 HP if you're above the "low health" level) but it ruins the flow of the game and it's actually gotten me killed before. Tried to execute an imp or some shit, and it gave a Baron of Hell enough time to shove his hoof up my ass.

...

And especially don't buy the game!

Game is fun, try the demo.

Doom 3 also had boss arenas, the Cyberdemon one being arguably larger than your pic. We are talking about the major trend.

actually no

The sections in the map which DO look interesting and well-crafted from a level design perspective barely have any enemies in them, let alone enough enemies to form a proper challenge. The real meat of the combat happens in sections of the level which aren't too geometrically complicated.
In addition, the levels in DOOM themselves are much bigger by default, with one level being able to take upwards of 20-40 minutes (with a total of 11-12 levels? I forgot), whereas standard Doom levels tend to be short in length (5-20 minutes) but ripe with complexity, and one episode had like 7-9 levels. If you were to paste all levels of Doom 1 together in one giant route and all levels of D44M, D44M would appear much simpler. The automap screenshot you posted might look complex, but you should take in consideration that the scale is much larger compared to an automap of Marathon or Descent, like in embeds related.

You know that technically you're looking at a corridor with a viewport-fixed 2D wallpaper pretending to be a "sky".
It's faked and very well done.
Original engine limitations also heavily restrict map and room sizes.

A complex map isn't hard to make, and it's not necessarily fun.

If you often find yourself going "where the fuck do I go?" then the map is poorly designed. Doom 4 goes like this: "You need a blue keycard, and a yellow keycard. This is the only unlocked path, go down it. You got the yellow keycard, go back to that area with the yellow door. Now you have the blue keycard, now open that door."

The game eventually just becomes a series of arenas tied with small platforming activities, primarily the Hell levels, but that's where the meat of the challenge comes in: the combat. Doom and Doom 2 were more about their maps being puzzles than being focused on the combat.

I. Agree.

The reason why the maps in Doom were so maze-like because the level layout and enemies complemented eachother for the sake of challenge. The enemies couldn't move fast, so you had to place them in tricky spots so you could create unique situations and challenges for the player. Of course this couldn't be only done in big open rooms, so twisting layouts could serve to spice up those combat situations. Keyhunts were rarely even a problem in Doom, unlike what scrubs make it out to be. A good level designer can naturally guide the player in such a way to avoid needless keyhunting (massive arrows on the floor are not what I'm talking about, Sandy), much like a good level designer can create interesting stages in SHMUPs without the use of stage hazards. Keyhunts were merely an extension of that situational awareness, and could be used to have you retraverse sections you had explored with suddenly enemies everywhere, or have a trap trigger when you pick up a keycard. (Fucking Doom 4 never surprises you with monster closets or anything)

Doom itself was not so much about 'combat', it was about crowd control and situational awareness foremost. The reason why there's no headshots in Doom is because headshots don't fucking matter against legions of demons. You were faster than any demon, but you were limited by the tight spaces and walls of the levels. Had Doom been all about huge Serious Sam-like open levels, the game would have been one big circlestrafe-fest. If you do not completely understand what I'm talking about, then I suggest you bingeplay Descent 1 and 2, and then see the differences with Descent 3.

Romero realized this after he looked at the levels of Wolfenstein 3D where you constantly enter one big room with a bunch of nazis, some decorations here and there and realized 'this shit constantly plays out the same and is no fucking fun'.

In Doom 4 involves spawning a bunch of demons in at random in a locked room where increasingly more difficult enemies get spawned (the actual difficulty of Doom 4 is another thing entirely). The problem with this method and Doom 4 in general is that it does not allow for cool variation in level design where one encounter will always stand out to you. There's no particular rhyme in enemy placement, and as a result all combat encounters feel the same because you're just running in any direction shooting any demon which happens to be in front of you. The only thing that differs is the arena layout, like portals and jump pads and such, but the enemies are barely built around those elements (enemies won't intentionally block your path to portals, for example).

Where Doom 4 could have made up for the level design is AI, and unfortunately that isn't the case. The enemy moves around a lot, but their attacks and co-operation are laughable. There's no real synergy to speak of because there's no enemy priority to begin with. There's nothing you have to be on the lookout for and as a result you don't really have to pay attention to what exactly is happening around you.

It's not like this approach is inherently flawed, Serious Sam does large open arenas right. It works because: there's no emergency health drops to fall back on, you can't outrun all enemies, some enemies should be dispatched ASAP if you value your life, and there is actually some thought behind the hordes and subtle differences in the arena layout even when it appears it's just a whole lot of enemies thrown in at once.

Doom3's AI is pretty good actually, it inherited the abilities from Quake3's bots.

Obviously. He's too stupid to pirate it. Didn't you read him?

Halo sucked. Halo 2 was better but still not that great. Halo 1 is a 4/10 game .

Looking around it seems that the noclip cheat is nowhere to be found in doom4, no wonder you guys are so defensive.

great post, levels should be designed around how the game works. Otherwise it's nothing more than a decoration that could be simplified into basic shapes with no effect on the game play. from what I've seen of doom4 it's nothing more than a bunch of pretty mars rocks, which turns into a circle arena when it comes to the fights. The first blue keycard is so pointless, walk 10 steps down a side corridor and that suddenly makes the game well designed…

Are the "Glory Kills" feature in DOOD basically like using the Soul Cube in Doom 3? I was honestly worried when I saw them and using them in the demo certainly didn't fill me with confidence. I guess what I mean by that is using the Soul Cube is fun in DOOM 3 but it certainly trivializes enemy encounters on the highest difficulty when you get it and you don't have to worry about health packs or health stations as much.

Is there also a reason why a lot of Doom 3's environments are similar? I just got to the first level and hell and had fun, and then I'm back in these identical looking corridors, not even on the surface of the moon either where you have to look for oxygen tanks. Is it due to engine limitations or what?

The game basically expects you to glory kill most enemies

The game is pretty much industrial corridors through entire game.

With the number of waves of enemies the game throws at you at some points, you're probably going to have to Glory Kill the majority of enemies to keep at a reasonable level of health and armor.

Nope, Doom 3 is fucking awful.

Having just marathoned Doom 3, I wouldn't say that. It is however a very poor follow-up to the original games, namely due to the change in direction 3 went.

I liked both iterations of the Doom bestiary that 3+4 had. 3 had a pretty neat body horror thing going on and was pretty spooky to see in the dark, while with 4 it was neat to see the more modern take on the classic designs, sans maybe the Hell Knight for being based off 3's version.

Doom 4 is great though