Think about how long this list was on a couple of months ago. It was only Zizek, and he has never talked more about identity politics than he has been right now anyway.
This is our time to shine, but here is the part a lot of people are going to have a knee jerk reaction to that they're they need to listen to.
We need to adopt the label of alt-left.
Yes, it's a cringy name. Yes, it makes no sense, but literally none of that matters.The only people who ACTUALLY give a shit about the specifics of this label ARE THE PEOPLE WHO NEED TO ADOPT IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Within the left and even the liberals who are still distraught about Trump's victory, a new anti-idpol movement is growing.
However in order for this movement to properly manifest, it needs a banner to rally under, and if we REALLY want to take this opportunity we need to finally step in as the all mighty anti-idpol left that we make ourselves out to be and give it form.
We need to get it out there that the alt-left is not only the anti-idpol left, but the only left that fight Trump. That is what people will rally behind.
As far as I'm concerned, I am now alt-left. I really don't give a shit to anyone who is going to point out that we are the original left in the first place, because the 'traditional' left was co-opted by identity politics in the first place.
This, I've been surprised how non-regressive Jimmy for example has been
Yeah, a fucking Blairite one.
Yea, the guy is retarded when it comes to other policies, but that's not what matters.
What matters is the fact that there is someone with relevance that is even talking about idpol.
doesn't look like it is from here
You could be correct about the necessity of the "alt-left" label. It is utterly idiotic but so is the spectacle that we have to ride in order to win. Such is the nature of the meme war, which has shown itself to be incredibly important. And I say all this as a post-leftist. "Alt left" could actually water down leftist identity to such a degree that it is forced to succumb to the distinctly Stirnerian realities of the individual - albeit in an egoist communist sense. Which is the only way I see any element of leftism remaining strategic or even possible.
What I can say with some certainty is that now is definitely the time to begin putting out our publications, radio shows (like Chapo), and generally expanding our little teensy weensy hegemony into something worthwhile.
They're still liberals
just ignore another anfem trying to derail the thread to try and save idpol.
Very well put.
Care to ask how many levels of identity politics you're free from
I don't think "alt-left" is a good name for our political ideology. The distinction between the traditional right and the 'alt-right' is largely that the 'alt-right' are racist, anti-Semites with a fetish for authoritarian imagery.
If we adopt alt-left we run the risk of people assuming a similar distinction exists.
We aren't alt-left, we're just left.
Sorry buddy, we're going to get lumped in with the hip new "Dirtbag Left" term.
It's silly to have the center of your platform be "anti-idpol". The best mode of attack isn't to criticize idpol, but to offer an alternative mode of analysis. Even just mentioning class is enough to trigger the liberal elite.
I agree with this, however the alt-left makes the most sense because it's a term with at least some traction beforehand. It's something that's been discussed before, people already have a vague idea that it exists.
Choosing a new term would just set us back, and it devolves this from a 'this is what we have to do now so we're doing it' to 'lets have a 400 reply thread arguing over semantics and not get anywhere'.
Did you even read the whole of the OP?
No. He still thinks Congress should be 50% female.
Doesn't sound like he's quite past identity politics just yet, despite what he might be saying.
This tbh. Embrace the dirtbag label and own it. The "alt" label has too much baggage now that the alt-right hit the mainstream media.
Similar to the labour MP though, that's not the point.
The point is that he's even bringing it up in the first place.
I'm not sure what you're saying encapsulates the whole picture of why "alt-right" came into use. I think a lot of it was rebranding the frankly stale, Jeb Bush style conservatism, that became actually impossible for young people to adopt. So alt-righters are simultaneously "anti-establishment" (kek) and reifying establishment views of what rightism is.
If we did the same, I think it would put forth a similar message. The key thing that we need to bring into American political discourse is that Liberal does NOT equal "Left". Alt-Left might be the way to do that. It'd be useful, if we are to get behind it, if right off the bat, a few of the more articulate ones among us wrote very clearly why we're using the term. A few decent articles from the get-go, written by US and not Salon.com, could keep the term clean. It seems inevitable that it will be used and we should be the ones to take it over first.
How is Zizek a liberal?
Also the alt-left label sounds dumb as fuck, too similar to aut-right.
the ctrl key is inherently authoritarian. we need the Fn-Left
just because idpol is becoming a more well known phrase doesn't mean shit if anything right wingers will just abuse the term identity politics to promote their own identity politics, and liberals will try to discredit leftists as not caring about minorities
How about "CAPS LOCK MARXISM"
How about "the ctrl-alt-delete-Left"?
I propose we start a subreddit, /r/altleft.
Reddit is the biggest place online for leftism, even though it's riddled with idpol.
If we can break ground there, get a foothold, we would have the ball rolling.
Maybe we should start a discord too. I hear all the cool kiddies are doing it.
I'd rather have more presence on halfchan than reddit
there already is one, and its pretty much dead last time I checked
It's like you are deaf. Alt-anything is retarded. Stop trying to brand communism after teen nazis.
If you want to create a trendy anti-idpol subreddit make it so by mocking the newest and growing alt-right group:
halfchan would be better, but we cant make boards there, and alt-left or not we would get drowned out in Holla Forums shit.
Nigger this thread is full of underage retards trying to bait just report the thread and ignore it.
fuck your "Alt-left" you fucking pleb. we don't want to be associated with morons.
if i ever meet anyone saying "alt-left" in front of me i swear i'll strangle him with his own colon
No but there should be more lefty presence on other boards. Holla Forumsyps dominate discussions and there's constantly threads like etc
I propose you kill yourself.
Kind of this, we must reconquer /lit/
i bet you now wish that you hadn't made "bunkerchan" but rather give it a relatable name for the entire class concious left
but alt-left is fucking retarded too
This is why the left is dying.
You think I like fucking reddit? No, but like I already said, it's where the most people are at.
Jesus you guys are hopeless.
Whatever it takes to keep you out lad.
k, nobody cares
I think a test for if someone is or is not a shill is when they start giving opinions about race or feminism, and then blame it on identity politics why there's blow back, they name at least which members of the Heritage Foundation belong to the Hoover Institute and which members of the Hoover Institute have ties to the Council on Foreign Relations, and which on all have ties to the defense industry.
Some sort of ever changing no bullshit test to weed out Holla Forumsyps and under age teens.
>>>Holla Forums >>>/faggot/ >>>/trash/
Why don't you take your own advice (^:
If I tell you a controversial opinion will you both focus on it and shut up
Straight men are becoming more obnoxious than gay men.
Alt-Left is terrible.
New Left is hip and cool with the kids.
The use of the term"Alt-left" and its derivations, is incredibly stupid, and it needs to be avoided.
If its use happens to pick up, you'll deeply regret it.
You are arguing over nothing.
You really are angry aren't you.
Sorry m80, but chan culture is what let Holla Forums's "fugg idbol :–DDD" mindset to exist
i know, just keep bumping to piss him off
I see. It was all a clever ruse.
My sweet summmer child.
Banks for 400
This member of the American Enterprise Institute is also a board member for this bank
I didn't want to be rude
Alt-left has been claimed by racist socdems, but this isn't a terrible idea
What is this picture from?
Most right-wing politics are identity politics.
Instead of changing into and out of ideologies like you're in your wardrobe, why don't you try and actually fucking study some serious theory? Christ's sake, this isn't supposed to be that difficult.
they can try but it will fail against reality: class-solidarity knows no other condition but being sincere in the joint struggle, no matter what identity
them attacking class unity will result in them being exposed as the divisive neoliberal reactionary force they are
Like studying what class is.
There are some social liberals who have become tired of the direction, intensity or form the social justice and identity politics struggle has arrived at, who use the term "Alternative Left".
In this case though, modern-style (liberal) social democrats with note-worthy social views for instance: thealtleft.com/
This phenomenon will likely increase.
the rest of us can shout louder, the game is early
I know what class is.
That is precisely the point. Be suspicious of those social liberal types or others when they speak of "being against identity politics". If such condemning sentiment becomes more widespread, it might be adopted as a new social-directed face for the same old policy-pushing.
The somatic order that is capitalist liberal democracy, has a way of weeding out would-be revolutionary potential through the use of the left of the Right, the feigning left-labeled social liberals who act as the inhibitors of radicalism. Picking up of increasing benign socialist activity and sympathy, it is akin to the introduction of a vaccine.
The feminist person was correct in telling the other poster not to be so naive.
Zizek is not a liberal.
Are you sure?
agree with the sentiment but not that specific label. few days back I posted that we needed our own baggage free name for our movement, just like the alt-right.
look at what they're accomplishing with rebranding. they're basically selling neo-nazism as the new trendy hipster and edgy thing to be.
we need to up our game and not lose the propaganda war.
I could get behind the NewLeft
Hey I got a good idea, how about "communism"
The meme war is not the long war though. It's a very localized war.
If you're that anfem that was bitching about gamergate in that last thread. Then you definitely don't know what class is.
We already have an alt-left. It's the New Left/Third Way bullshit that was started in the '70s and annihilated genuine Leftist thought. It's time to finally put it in its grave.
how have i not seen this before
this has to be one of the worst videos ive ever seen holy fuck
pure ideology doesn't even begin to describe this shit
Class is the prevailing mode of one's relation to production and reproduction.
This is the problem with literally everyone's critique of feminism. They think one has to agree with everyone, or that they are so naive as to not know they have many, many, many failures "altogether."
or that one is so naive*
'Alt-Left' sounds pretty lame and obnoxious already, honestly. We are and always have been the True Left: Communists. Simple hate of idpol is as self-sabotaging for the proletarian movement as excessive emphasis on 'idpol' is. All critiques of oppressive structures in capitalism voiced by marginalized elements within the proletariat can be relevant and useful as long as they maintain the emancipation of the international proletariat as their foundation. Idpol in itself is not an enemy ideology and must not be treated as one. It is a historical element of class critique which, as long as it is being voiced by proletarians, must be considered and debated and placed rightly in the direction of class abolition. Idpol without primary influence on proletarian unity, on the other hand, is not Left and must be simply ignored and laughed at as it is obviously just another example of bourgeois recuperation. Remind proles with idpol leanings of this, encourage them to recognise and reject bourgeois idpol, and we will eliminate the cancerous aspects of idpol within our class.
Twitter liberals refer to the Chapo boys as the "scumbag left." I say we embrace that label and wear it like a badge of honor.
In a real disagreement between two people, sometimes it can make sense to 'own' and wear what you are being called. In a propaganda war where you are being branded, having false characteristics pushed upon you and being offered a strawman place in opposition that no longer even relates to anything you yourself actually stand for or want - all you're doing is applying paint to a coloring book.
You do not embrace bullshit and try to make it your flag.
reminder: it's Holla Forums looking to troll us with "Alt-Left"
they're the ones pushing this, IGNORE ALT LEFT THREADS
"Alt-Left" is stupid
i think this thread was made by muke
worker-basher kinnock is not a friend to the people whatever he is pulling right now
Because "there's women and minorities who aren't subservient enough to the patriarchal and white supremacist structures that extend into socialist organisations" is too much of a mouth full.
Yeah, you go fight those intersectionally powerful white supremacist socialists and the World Wide Mad Deadly Communist Gangster Patriarchy. We woll focus on getting working class control of the means of production.
And how's that working out for you? You aren't getting any results because your movements are exclusive.
Who exactly do you think that socialism excludes apart from the bourgeoisie?
Yeah our movement isnr getting anyway because the modern "left" bends over backwards for reactionaries like you.
As a post-egoist I agree.
Socialism doesn't even, technically speaking, exclude the bourgeoisie. Say someone on this board inherited a majority stake in some medium-size corporation tomorrow morning and no longer had to work to survive. It wouldn't be anywhere near tactically sound to immediately liquidate and spin off all remaining assets to the employees, as this will not impact the class pressures they are subject to. Immediately dissolving and redistributing the organs of capitalist force projection we acquire doesn't bring socialism any closer because capitalism is an ultimately global phenomenon - see "socialism in one country." Rather, a sort of "holding action" by sympathetic individuals can augment the material vanguard and influence the superstructure. Sure, you'd necessarily acquire material interests contrary to socialism, but material interest influences society and the course of history on a statistical level - and is at times trumped on the individual one. The point being that in every such case it is the bourgeoisie who exclude themselves from socialism, and not socialism that excludes the bourgeoisie.
I don't recall voting on any of this.
What the fuck This pisses me off almost as much as the restriction on mag capacity itself m8. stop.
Why would you pick a shitty name like alt-left though? Classic-left is much better.
Why the fuck would we want to take up some newspeak label? There's already words that exist in the lexicon for what is being advocated here. Just make the distinction between Leftism and Liberalism. You think it's some badge of honor to "compete" with the Nazis at their own game? You're out of your mind.
not zizek, but the other two indeed are
Rebel not reading/comprehending the point.
Same with this Holla Forums
We're converging. This was always expected.
It's now facist and communists against the Hollywood/porky indoctrination machine. Bout time we realized this.
I'd say both are becoming 3 positionist/ authoritarian.
Interesting pose that.
Surely by this time you're talking about the New New New New New New Left. After all, the Blairites saw themselves as New Left, how much do you agree with Blair and his policies? (His greatest accomplishments - 2 disastrous wars, the introduction of tuition fees and the biggest wave of migration to the island of Great Britain in 12,000 years of human habitation.)
Have you ever considered that there are plenty of women and minorities who don't think the solution to patriarchy and other oppressive structures is shitty devolved Maoist shame circles? "Capitalism is bad! WE NEED SOMETHING WORSE" is not much of a plan.
how is class not a form of identity? people can and do change class.
It'll take about two years until most of it is dead. Even then the liberal media will continue to churn out idpol bullshit.
The focus will later be on the alt-right with Spencer, Taylor and his goons.
The entire problem with "alt-left" is that there is no left to be an alternative to. Our beliefs ARE the left. Liberal faggots are centrists or right-leaning, they're only "leftists" by the standards of retarded burgers.
The autismos call themselves "alt-right" because there already is an existing far right in Western politics, mainly fixated on religion instead of race.
My gott this is will be the thousandth time someone has had to explain this. Class is someone's objective relationship to the process of production and the ownership of the means of production. A person's class position in society exists independently of what class they choose to identify as.
For instance, if a homeless man or a poor prole chooses to believe that he owns a fortune 500 company that does not make him a member of the bourgeoisie.
As for social mobility it goes the same way, faggots who strike it rich and then bitch and moan about how they grew up poor, have a "working class mentality" are not working class no matter how many baseball hats they have or t-shirts they wear. By contrast, someone who was a CEO who lost everything and is now working at a pizza-hut is no longer a member of the bourgeoisie no matter how deeply bourgeois ideology and manners are imprinted into his brain.
The fact of social mobility, both upward and downward (this is a bit more typical) has nothing to do with class as an objective social relationship.