I think it's high time that we recognize the fact that leftypol's hatred of idpol has reached a pathological level...

Two things:

1. It has been, but the reason for that (alienation based on individual identities resulting from the capitalist superstructure) is again the actual problem, idpol is merely a symptom.

2. I feel like a lot of this board is operating on a very primitive-Marxist idea of class even though we are in a much more nuanced time. Our current idea of a workers revolution is far too old-school to be effective in a modern society.

...

Socialists and people further left than that have always had this conundrum you don't want to seem to anti-idpol or you'll get shamed forever later. Like the unions have been consistently trounced for past racism and pandering to archaic social norms.

Dehumanizing tendencies and reactionary thinking is wrong, but solving those things is not the end all be all of politics. The problem is that if you do cater to those people they then want to make everything about their pet identity issue and the unity you were striving for to end the dominance of money/power is lost anyway.

Holla Forums has also kind of "marketed" itself as an alternative to safe space leftism and it will be damn near intractable to change that at this point. Especially with the public perception of chans scaring most people like that away. Especially after this pepe election.

...

...

I don't know why, but "revolution can't work in modern times" and "Marx is outdated" seem to be the positions of every identitarian I've argued with.

...

dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed

...

There are several parts of reactionary thought that hold great value to any Marxist. Broken clocks being right twice a day and all that.
We have to judge texts and ideas as whole theories, and not eclectic combinations of various conclusions a la carte.

I think I'm getting misunderstood here. By saying I'm against Holla Forums's current stance towards idpol, I am not stating implicitly that I support idpol itself. This is the kind of absolutist logic that causes movements to fail. I'm merely concerned that we are basing a political framework on a negative basis (in the sense that we market ourselves as being opposed to idpol but not offering much more than that).

Zizek and plenty of other leftists have negative views of idpol which I agree with in pretty much every way. What you'll also notice however is that it isn't all they fucking talk about.

being against idpol means being against racism and sexism
please leave

ITT: liberalism

Mao: Combat liberalism
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_03.htm

no one gives a fuck what you think

...

Wasn't she the nutcase that Sartre relentlessly cheated on?

We are also all leftists, what else do we need to be 'for'? anti idpol is what defines us from not actual socialists.

...

No we are not, you illiterate buffoon, we are communists! Go read the fucking Manifesto by Karl Marx.

This.

You are conflating theory and praxis

and that's why no one takes you seriously, because identity will always matter and to try and pretend it doesn't is to insult everyone simultaneously

Is this a Holla Forumstroon or an identitarian? It's impossible to tell which.

Well thats literally what the purpose of this board is. We have no defining "stance" on anything other than a vague notion of communism and anti-identity politics. We are a board ranging from hardline holomodor denying tankies to hardline "open borders abolish money noaw everything is statism" anarchists.

So what exactly do you expect from this board? The only thing we can offer as a collective stance is the following:

And then there is the following you can also find here:

I'm no identitarian, but it's ludicrous to think every aspect of someones thought from over a hundred fucking years ago is applicable.

Zizek, who most of this board worships, would absolutely agree with me on this. If a political ideology is a worthwhile one, it can evolve. Marxism is more capable of this than most others in this respect.

speak for yourself juden

Your terminology is overly conflated and soars over the laymen's ears. Most of the working class thinks you sound retarded, and past experiments of communism make you look the way you sound. Fooled by a jew, just like christians.

I'm not sure what the social effect of banning chans would be. I know when reddit had that moderator issue for a week they flooded sites and crashed servers and they're just mildly perturbed normies.

Yes, but I think we can be more than this if we're willing to organize effectively.

It is absolutely essential that as a leftist community we offer an alternative to liberal idpol nonsense, but we sell ourselves short if we stop there in my opinion.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

PEAK LIBERALISM

INSUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF THEORY DETECTED

De-individuation accompanies intense belonging. Marx parenthetically notes that unequal individuals “would not be different individuals if they were not unequal.” Inequality is differentiation, it's the siphoning off of the fluid, mobile substance of collectivity into the form of distinct individuals. The force of equality in the crowd breaks down the always fragile and imaginary enclosure of the individual form, enabling the collective to experience its collectivity.

THE INDIVIDUAL AS WE KNOW IT IS AN OPPRESSIVE FICTION

YOUR IDENTITY IS CONSTRUCTED BY POINTING TO EXTERNAL REFERENCES

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I think we do what we can but realistically there are tankies anarkiddies and stirnerites on this board, it's not like we all agree on how leftism should work.

The Manifesto was written in EIGHTEEN FORTY EIGHT. We're no better than fucking Christians if we think all that's necessary for a political position is the writings of someone from an entirely different time period who had no way of knowing what the class struggles of today would look like.

I consider myself a strong Marxist but to think that the movement begins and ends with the man himself is childish.

A book in your life.

So.

Instead of saying
Offer an idea as to what we could do as a board. As far as I see attempts at organising IRL are not really going to work since many of our members are strongly opposed over some fundamentals such

Disagreeing with Marx on certain things is one thing. "Marx is outdated" is something quite different. You didn't disagree with the sentiment apparently. The position implies a definite political orientation which almost inevitably ends up being anti-left. The "revolution can't work" position is frequently one result.

Infographs and pepe memes are not quality.

Get out revisionist.

Quantity: a book, that is 1 book.
Quality: I read a paragraph once, brah. It was the best paragraph ever.

daaaaaayumn

While I agree with your overall point. I think original anons point is also still valid. The problem with saying "Marx is outdated" and the overly generally cliches like that people use to not think much further is that it discounts that much of his critique of capitalism is still true today and can be applied without much effort or modernization. Granted we do have modern marxist critiques but I'd say for a thinker that his been dead that long few people have been as prescient and correct.

It also usually reflects a lazy apathy in the modern liberal "thinkers" attitude towards capitalism.

Sometimes I wonder if the conspiracy theories about cointelpro and board sliding are actually true because you cunts who complain about this board being too "anti-idpol" sure don't seem to have spent any time actually browsing the board.

Yeah, books lose relevance and value after ten years. Everyone knows this is the Adult (TM) way of thinking.

That's not what I'm saying lol. The revolution can work if we're not treating a thinker from the 1800's words like they're the Bible. Marxist analysis on its most basic level still functions, but the movement doesn't end with reading Capital ya know?

I go to Holla Forums for political discussion. If I wanted le funny maymays and shitty infographs I would go to 9gag.

...

Oh you mean the mods censoring everyone they disagree with and the website admins closing boards they disagree with or replacing mods with their sjw friends?

Please don't misunderstand me: I'm very Marxist in my political thought, but we should do what we can to avoid dogmatism.

It's not that Marx is outdated per se, but rather there are considerations which we need to make today that he could never have accounted for. I don't mean to legitimize the guy's theory, but rather make clear that we can't take his writings as the end-all-be-all. That pigeon-holes us. His core explanation of class is, of course, still vital but lets not act like Leftist theory needs nothing new after him.

Quantity has a quality all its own.

*delegitimize

Speaking of "things I didn't say," when did I say to treat Marx's work like a Bible?

The only alternatives this suggests to me are either no revolution (achieving socialism through democratic means) or the revolution from the marginalized (rather than the proletariat) advocated by certain others (e.g. Marcuse). The latter is part of what created much of the identitarian idiocy on the left in the first place.

I've spent frankly an embarrassing amount of time here. I don't know how you can deny the idpol hate is getting excessive.

I'm absolutely not saying not to hate it, it NEEDS to be hated, but I think we are capable of more than just that.

what the fuck are you talking about

I agree. Thats why I got banned from /r/socialism, /r/communism, /r/anarchism, /r/spacecommunism, /r/askreddit, /r/politics and some more.

So what you're saying is you're concern trolling.

If you think the people here are "tripping over themselves" to support women's lib, antiracism, LGBT acceptance, then you are a Holla Forums tier reactionary.

The entry point of Marx's science (I'm going there) is class for a very good reason. In politics and political economy for Marx there is no comprehensible level under collectivity.

If you want to take the individual as the basis of your politics and ideological economics, liberalism and conservativism will gladly take you and so will our gulags.

...

absolutely not. in fact, it's the opposite. the response itt indicates a large ideological sensitivity in regards to the very idea of idpol. i see a weakness in that. if we don't like it, lets become bigger than it.

but that's exactly what i'm talking about. idpol is, like it or not, a branch of leftism (certainly the worst of them all, but a branch none the less). if emphasizing collectivity is the goal, then let's ignore idpol in pursuit of the larger goal rather than form an entire platform out of opposition to it. if we obsess over how terrible it is, we run the risk of creating an identity out of oppostion to idpol, therefore running into the same problem that always causes idpol to fail

Easily, because it's not "getting excessive" it's the same or less as it was a year ago and is challenged more often and at greater length as the board has grown. There was a recent spike with a bunch of TOLD YA SO LIBS when Trump got elected and even that is pretty much finished now and has moved onto laughing at Holla Forums getting cucked by daddy.

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Nigger what?
Idpol is a form of polics, not left or right wing. White nationalism and the KKK is just as much identity politics as SJW's and shit like that.

That snot how this works. Identity politics is about your personal identity or identity based politics. Groups supporting a certain political ideology are not necessarily identity politics, if they do not concern themselves with the identity of people.

No honey, you're just upset that the board generally supports these things through indifference to identity demographics, working class solidarity and vocal opposition to their right-wing counterparts instead of adopting your preferred academic jargon and wallowing in collective guilt.

The best MRA is 10 times as bad as the worst feminists.

just how do you come up with those numbers

Indifference is not support and yes I am upset this board is a reactionary shithole that tries so hard to pretend it isn't.

Go back to your safespace, hitlerdubs.

Last time i checked gender equality did not include rolling out carpets for the opposite sex, it meant judging people based on merit.

Idpol is a branch of post-politics. I can't speak for "leftism," but communism is politics proper.

It's the method.

You can't ignore a completely opposing method that is paralyzing you.

Like how you create more fire when you splash water on ''burning wood?"

Communists are not contrarians. We act on antagonisms.

Seriously, nigger, read a book, lurk more.

I don't have one but I don't mind disturbing yours. Gender equality is not feminism and neither is rolling out carpets. I suggest you read some feminist authors to learn more. Judging people based on merit is just a smart thing to do in general. You should do that regardless of your politics but somehow I doubt you're able to overcome your prejudices in practice.

reply to

Oh boy you're sure making assumptions. Have you ever browsed this board for a little while or do you just believe whatever they tell you?

Gender is one way of talking about a problem, but some would argue that it remains identitarian and validates and stems from the already existing Oedipal order (which isn't the same as >patriarchy).

What makes you think that people here haven't read feminist texts? (While it is clear that you have a very superficial understanding of Marxism.)

publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft4779n9s6;chunk.id=0;doc.view=print

Of course it's possible. Even feminists admit this but they say it's patriarchy as well.

I think I can safely assume that a person who posts Holla Forums "redpill" propaganda has not read serious feminist literature and is probably not as egalitarian in their day to day interactions as they believe.

It's not having it better than men if they have it better than men because of sexism.

You are not talking to one person, but multiple people. Welcome to anonymity, enjoy your stay, lurk more.

Gender is a black hole of liberal identity politics.

e-flux.com/journal/32/68246/sexual-difference-and-ontology/

I am aware and I know who i am speaking to

You know how to quote. Good job.

Why do people say we should read this guy? This is total nonsense. It's pure abstract idealism.

Nope, you double down and Holla Forums doubles down.

Yes, it is in the sense of those things. You're conflating two sense of "better": "better in a certain way" and "better overall." I never said anything about the latter.

This is such a shitty meme.
Take your equivocal fulcra and go back.
philpapers.org/archive/SHATVO-2.pdf

No I'm not. It doesn't matter how "bad" men have it because they're only having it "bad" because they're seen as stronger, so it's not actually suffering it's a form of power.

The definition of propaganda is basically:
It's not pushing for anything, it's a way to dismiss "muh muh privilege" without having to dance around some retard's mental gymnastics.

I just don't understand why saying we need to be wary of making the opposition to idpol our only focus is so upsetting

Oh please. You're talking to somebody who has actually been subject to discrimination and violence for one of the demographics I fall under, not some comfortable wealthy professional or trust-fund college kid with a guilty conscience for never having had a problem in life.

I came up into politics via an identity focused "rights" movement and saw it continuously co-opted by another identity movement and then channeled into useless representationist politics and fawning over stereotype exploiting sitcoms. I've been there, done that. I know what the end point of that shit looks like.

Indifference to those categories and opposition to their right-wing counterparts making them a big deal l is the ONLY form of support that is relevant.

"They're not better in those senses because they're not actually better overall" amounts to the exact same thing. You can't reject they're doing better in the senses pointed out simply because you think they're doing worse overall. It's pure casuistry.

That's great now you can practice anti-idpol and be co-opted by Holla Forums nazis.

Wow.

Who needs class when you have gender amirite

no, you dense faggot, Holla Forums nazis are identity politics. They are nothing but identity politics.

You seem to be one of those paternalistic morons who gets upset when some uppity minority rejects your very gracious offer to "use your muh privilege" to help them instead of treating them like a human being and an equal.

This board's been more resistant to Nazis than Reddit socialist and anarchist subs which have relied on banning everyone who doesn't share their identitarian nonsense.

People got WAY too triggered by OP

Because it isn't and it's a non-issue. There are dozens of other threads on this board that have nothing to do with anti-identity politics. If you want to see people talk about other things, try making an interesting thread instead of concern trolling about nothing.

I know Holla Forums loves saying this because it's a convenient "reject both sides because they are the same" but I don't buy into that logic anymore.

I don't know how to reply to this other than that you are way off the mark. I don't think used the word muh privilege once. I'm also not a liberal and am very critical of liberal feminism and LGBT politics. I know there is an intelligent critique of identity politics out there but it should not be used to defend the people who literally want to lynch niggers.

currently yes, it isn't a problem. but i think there is a kind of immature appeal in hating idpol to the point that what we're hating is a fetishized idea which doesn't actually exist.

circlejerks in general make me uneasy. avoidance of that kind of thing is what really separates us from Holla Forumstards

I know we hate reddit but where are the Nazis on /r/socialism?

because most people here are teenagers that have been jaded by girls.

or

Are ex-Holla Forumsfaggots or Gamergate retards that can't get over the fact that Feminists aren't some massive boogyman and actually have very legitimate theory.

Idpol is toxic, but idpol is toxic because as a movement it got hijacked by Neoliberals and "Moderates" who wanted to neutralize radical action so the way Idpol OPERATES is very anti-revolutionary. The theory itself when viewed within class politics is perfectly fine and very much in line with views of our own.

The thing is, this isn't the view of most on Holla Forums most here pathologically hate feminists and the theory based on completely reactionary arguments basically copied 1:1 from Holla Forums.

I very much doubt that most people on Holla Forums even know feminist theory beyond the strawmanned versions they got when they were fanboys of Sargon or Amazing Atheist or whatever.

I mean seriously, Holla Forums has actual nazis making cuck porn bait threads but somehow we are the most resistant to nazis?

It's not that they have Nazis. It's that they had to rely on the bans to preserve the state of things with a certain ideological purity while Holla Forums largely hasn't.

So the post claiming they were not resistant to Nazis was a lie

It's for the best.

You are not helping when you make posts like this.

fucking christ, thank you.

lets not just be the lefty alternative to Holla Forums, but stronger, smarter, and more effective than Holla Forums. that starts with eliminating made up boogey men (this actually includes a lot of porky hate. the bourgeoisie are the enemy but lets not fall into ressentiment, in a Nietzschean sense)

Why is there, without exception, every single time for months now, one highly identifiable user who keeps making threads or posts relating to idpol and shilling stupid shit about feminism? Stupid red herrings from COINTELPRO to distract us from class consciousness? Or the fact we already know "proud (and extremely ugly) liberals" like Clinton's bourgeois daughter browses and posts here? You won't get your way. All pigs will pay.

If you have to resort to bans to preserve ideological purity, you're not ideologically resistant to Nazis.

this the first meta-thread i've made.

maybe some people can see a circlejerk when it's happening and want discussion more in depth than that.

Perfect example of what the "lefty alternative to Holla Forums" looks like right here

Slightly different vocabulary but the same paranoiac retardation

Banning Nazis does not make you a Nazi.

Here's another theory: the pro-idpollers are liberal idiots who have to shame people to agree with you, much like liberals tried with the 2016 elections.

Whenever I read this term in feminist threads I have a hunch it's this lady who deleted her channel but here's a (shit) reply to one of her vids:
youtu.be/fwM-u502AfA?t=47

There was once a thread on one of her vids and I presume she was eventually led here.

If so, Mrs. Jaded Culture, you still haven't read shit and your interest is still limited to (an uncritical scope from radical to liberal) feminism.

IMO she's still in college and stuck identifying with her profs, but got moved away from her beliefs by leftypol, hence this contradictory "let's keep some idpol and some nonidpol" belief of hers.

yes…of course. oh god…I see it now. feminism=SJW. feminism was created as a means of subverting leftist thought, starting in the 1800s…notice how there is no notable female leftist thinker, until we reached occupy wall street in the 2010's? i see it. we need to purge idpol for the thing it has always been: a way to subvert the left.

Try learning to read.

i dont know how many times i have to say it

being unsupportive of Holla Forums's neurotic obsession with idpol =/= supporting idpol

I can't really put it any other way. I was massively anti-feminist then I read the theory and was like "Oh this is like 90% correct, just needs more class analysis"

I would recommend this Youtube series:
youtube.com/watch?v=Wu-0jEhavOs&list=PL9IOjFRFjrOku8aTCwfL4MXi_e7gZYXwf

Pretty much tears a new one against the arguments used against Feminism from Youtube "Rationalists", hilarious as well, because this Youtuber also dislikes Anita Saarkesian and thinks she's kind of a shitty critic (he did a large critique of her series as well)

Another really good "Feminist" channel is Shaun and Jen
youtube.com/channel/UCJ6o36XL0CpYb6U5dNBiXHQ/videos

Literally uses academia to BTFO people like Sargon, showing how Sargon literally quote mines and makes everything he says up.
youtube.com/watch?v=_YqC3zV3WDQ

This is how you get a more measured, academic look at Feminism, not the shit you see from the worst of Tumblr.

As I have said, I'm against IdPol from a ORGANIZATIONAL standpoint, I think the way modern IdPol operates is as the "human face" of Neoliberalism.

I'm not against feminist theory or feminism, because it's basically a carbon copy of most of our theory just expanding on how power relations related to gender and Engels anyway.

Yeah, it's almost like you get liberals who come here after reading a little theory and think they're leftists now but they drag along all of their liberal baggage instead of re-examining it and understanding it in the context of base and superstructure.

You're focusing on the wrong part of that post, idiot.

...

You're saying that a leftist politics board should let Nazis in so they can prove how "ideologically resistant" they are. I think that's dumb. I know there a lot of genuine leftists on Holla Forums who will not be swayed by Nazi no matter how much cuck porn and redpill bait they post.

You're kidding, right? The casualties to SJWism, whether or not it adheres to the legitimate theory, are very well-documented.
I was almost kicked out of school myself because I dared to disagree.

The better part of that is facetious. Any class-conscious person understands full well that the bourgeoisie are most like a chess opponent. You can't fault them for acting rationally in their own self-interest.

When has it not been? Every time I see one of these threads, we get people like accusing their opponents of being angry virgins and saying "identity politics isn't so bad, guys, but it's the liberals who are ruining it," as if identity politics itself weren't characteristic of neoliberalism.

How fucking sheltered do you have to be to believe this?

If people aren't going to read academic papers, at least they can listen to people reading academic papers for them.

I'm not even disagreeing with that. The problem is you expect to change someone's mind when you say "you're just jaded because women don't love you enough so you must not be very much of a man hahaha gamergate amirite?"

No, I'm saying "resorting to bans of anyone who might remotely disagree smacks of ideological weakness."

What do you want us to focus on? This is the most visited and class conscious image board on the internet.

but don't you realize that the same thing is happening with former Holla Forumstards who despise idpol not because it has been co-opted by the neoliberal order to suppress the left, but because of their own juvenile "hurr muh SJWs" hubris? this feelz bullshit is anything but constructive.

Because it implies that we make opposition to idpol our only focus you disingenuous sack of shit.

I agree with that but I don't think the reddit boards are that bad.

YOU FOOLS! CAN'T YOU SEE YOU'RE PLAYING INTO LOKI'S HANDS?! DIVISION, DISSENT AND TRICKERY ARE HIS METHODS!

We should focus less on opposition to idpol and more on making revolution a reality

im not sure how you can't see that we're running the risk of it, and that's probably the result of butthurt Holla Forums cross-posters.

i think it would be better for the board to focus on leftist organization and collective action, and becoming more than just another image board for people to circlejerk over how much smarter they are than those dumb essjaydubya cucks.

yea, idpol is fucking retarded. so why are so many people here talking about it all the time

Because most of the critique I see of Idpol here is balatantly pathological and carried over from back when everyone here went through their Gamergate/"Rationalist" phase. I went through the exact same thing, I actually started reading through feminist papers as research because I wanted to start a channel like Thunderf00t in service of Gamergate.

Then I realized "Oh wait, this is basically all perfectly fine and completely logical" and I started to see how shallow my Heroes like Thunderf00t really were.

Something from my past that was ultra cringy, I used to write anti-feminist MRA "essays" and post them online. deleting that shit was the first thing I did when I realized I was just a reactionary retard and completely full of shit, the only bigger shame I have was when I used to be a lolbertarian climate change denier who used to throw Heritage links in peoples faces to show how Climate Change wasn't real, thank fuck I grew out of that edgy bullshit.

So I think I understand why people hate SJW's and Idpol, because I was one myself. But education basically showed me how much of a ignorant tool I was being.

IdPol is toxic from a organizational standpoint and I actually agree "SJWs" as in, fucking pretentious as fuck hipsters who publically shame people for wearing dreadlocks or whatever because "Muh stretched definition of cultural appropriation" are massive fucktards, but I'm not going to throw away decent theory because a group of fucktards also follow it. If I did that, I couldn't believe anything.

Yes, I do. You want to know how I can tell you're a liberal arguing from a place of emotion? Reread you post and notice these words in particular:

You are fighting against the notion that you might have something in common with rightists - opposition to a particular set of identitarians. You don't have an argument as to why the rightists are wrong (because if you did then you would also be wrong for disagreeing with "SJWs"), so instead you have to resort to characterizing the rightists as meanie doo doo heads. There are plenty of things you could be criticizing former Holla Forumsyps about, like the attachment to traditional values. But you go after them for something you somewhat agree with because your liberal sensibilities causes your booty to blister any time you agree with the righty tribe on something.

i'd be a feminist if grills liked me

ITT: liberal half-converts who are still not so sure that class politics covers all of their interests resorting to dishonest consensus building around things non-negotiable to radicals.

Probably people who didn't fully drink the Hillary koolaid but are still suspicious of the working class while being afraid of Trump.

People do this IRL. There are obvious limits to online organization and action. Opposing identity politics is on of the main presuppositions of any collective building.

Rec some papers, make some arguments.
I'm in a reading mood. Maybe if you have the "critique of the gotha program" of feminist theory?

So, what, you imagine everyone here followed Thunderf00t? This is silly narcissism. You're pathologizing opposition instead of making an argument.

"You believe this because your mother must have abused you when you were young" tells me nothing about whether an argument is right or wrong, but it does reveal something about the person for whom such comments actually mean something.

calling me a liberal doesn't all of a sudden delegitimize my position, especially considering that nothing ive said has anything to do with being a liberal. i use those words because the absolute contempt of idpol i see on here every day suggests something more than a rational assertion of how it's an ineffective tool, which is all that's really necessary.

Gee it sounds a little bit like you're projecting here, and the problem is just that you have a shallow understanding of all sides of these topics.

Uh huh, so then what is this:
Sounds to me like you're one of those people who's absolutely terrible at evaluating information and are just bouncing around like a pinball from one ideology to the next, disavowing whatever you used to believe and clinging desperately to your new pet ideology. Tell me: if something that was so wrong and stupid had you convinced before, what's different now that keeps you from being bamboozled?

Being one does, tho

White idpol is also idpol.

Your position is to insult people who dislike things you don't dislike (as much). It's not "legitimate" to begin with.

Insulting people for having the wrong opinions is a hallmark of liberalism.

Human beings get mad at things that cause problems. Idpol is a cancer that divides people, killing organization and relationships alike. Yeah, people will get mad at that. And then you come in and complain about people being madder than you approve of. What did you expect.

Yeah I'm sure if he was just a little more dedicated and intelligent he would have been able to see the DEEP HIDDEN TRUTHS of thunderf00t videos and gamergate.

dude, how are you still not getting it.

idpol: not good

focusing too much attention on it not being good: useless distraction

rite on sistar! :^D

Nope, very well read in Socialist and Sociological and economic theory now, it's why I'm a Council Communist.

Because I was an edgy contrarian who didn't read shit and got all my information from 4chan and youtube. Now I get my information from academic papers and academic study. Basically, I got an education.

Dude, how are you still not getting it? We do organize. We do see left organizations being crushed by identity politics. It is currently very important to fight against them, and also to make the right wingers understand that they are doing identity politics as well and that it won't provide a cure to their very real economic problems just like it didn't on the left.

Go fuck off and meet protesters, organizations, parties, anarcho-collectives in any western country and tell me they aren't full idpol.

BTFO

I actually have a friend who behaves exactly like this, and I'd guess you do too since this seems colored by personal experience.
He had a "communist phase" at 16 but to this day can't answer basic questions about the theory.

The overwhelmingly majority of people despise idpol.
Currently the overwhelmingly majority of people also think that leftism=idpol, which turn people away from leftism and make them hate the "left".
Idpol it's far from being just a minor obstacle (in comparison to other things) in the path of actual leftism. It's a huge rock blocking the path.

fucking thank you, comrade

We can only judge you on what you post, cf.

The huge rock is actually capitalism. Idpol is just the thin layer of paint on top. This is why anti-idpol is bad. You think you're paving the way to a socialist utopia when in reality you're just chipping away at the surface.

...

Good luck getting anything done against capitalism without the support of the people.

Yes, capitalism is the big obstacle in leftist organizations. Leftist organization are, after all, enterprises with owners and workers that are built on exploitation.

Nobody will dispute this. But you have to recognize that idpol is one of the mechanisms by which capitalism blocks the way. As other anons have pointed out, it's not the only one we focus on.

AIM GRUSH: GAPITALISM
PROBLEM1: CAN'T ORGANIZE CUZ IDPOL
PROBLEM2: GAPITALISM GAN'T BE GRUSHED WITHOUT ORGANIZING
YOUR SOLUTION: GRUSH GAPITALISM

:DDDDDDDDD

Identity politics is literally the cancer that is killing the left. Remove them and there might be a chance of redemption.

People need to realize that not everyone who disagrees with them is a babbling insane person. It would reduce the number of sudden "redpill" situations that come up like this.

Just because your generalization of a group of people is suddenly shattered, it doesn't suddenly make the demons that come with them go away. Fascists are still Fascists, Feminists are still Feminists, Communists are still Communists.

KEK.

So you actually buy into the idea that fighting idpol is productive? That's delusional.

So you actually buy into the idea that building class consciousness is productive? That's delusional.

This may be the best summary of the current state of the left.

AIM GRUSH: GAPITALISM
PROBLEM1: CAN'T ORGANIZE CUZ IDPOL
PROBLEM2: GAPITALISM GAN'T BE GRUSHED WITHOUT ORGANIZING
YOUR SOLUTION: SHITPOST XDDDD

so what marks out idpol?

Millennial women earn more than millennial men
theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds

Capitalism hates working class men as it is so why should we focus on the imaginary struggles of the bourgeois gender, the woman? How many women labour hard and harshly with high on the job fatality rates compared to men? The female of the first world capitalist society is nothing more than a puffed stuffed bourgeois pig with make up and pearls who steals the paycheck and labours of their hard earned boyfriends and husbands and feeds the pigs statistically the most by far in consumerist bourgeois spending. In the modern capitalist society women hardly labour at all thanks to advancement of modernity. They laze around in their decadence and then invent imaginary problems to blame on the proletariat men who must suffer death and indignity in the mines, construction sites and roads, and fishing boats. But fear not for true leftism has a solution. All men and women will labour in the camps equally to the point that neither the word man and woman will ever be brought up again. You are only citizen and unit of labour to the great revolution. If you disregard with antirevolutionary tendencies, then please die peacefully in gulag after bullet hits and exit your brain. Thank you.

archive.org/details/originoffamilypr00enge

busin.biz/library/feminism/Capitalist Patriarchy and Socialist Feminism.pdf

libcom.org/files/Caliban and the Witch.pdf

hu.mtu.edu/~rlstrick/rsvtxt/hennessy1.pdf

marxists.org/reference/subject/ethics/de-beauvoir/2nd-sex/

libcom.org/files/Caliban and the Witch.pdf

I WANNA GO FROM A TO B
FUGG :DDD
THERE'S A BOULDER BETWEEN A AND B
LET'S GO BAG TO A AND TRY AGAIN
FUGG :DDDDDD
THE BOULDER IS STILL THERE :DDDD
LET'S GO BAG TO A AGAIN AND SEE IF BOULDER IS GONE
:DDDDD

I'm not sure what your point is other than that nobody has any answers and basically we are all fucked

put in some effort, my god

So are you saying we should keep organizing including the idpol? You might not be getting the part where individualism (dominant consciousness under capitalism) continuously corrodes collective attempts.

...

Fighting identity politics is the answer.
It's politically correct and is also popular.

Nothing of value is lost with identity politics gone.

A majority of these posters gave a shit about gamer gate at one point in their lives.

Probably larpers

The answer to the wrong question.
So what?
There are things of real value at stake. You will lose them.

b but women are oppressed

What is at stake?

The way I see it, the leftist end of the spectrum is at stake if a clear division is not made.

Really makes you think

On multiple levels, it can be argued that they are. If you aren't dialectical about it, then stop investing in it.

God if there's anything I hate more than liberal feminists it's communists so detatched from their cause, let alone new, to not know that feminism and communism are both common goals linked at the hip.

This is the only generation emasculated and pissy enough to give this much of a shit about feminism. I mean there is no historical precedent. Every previous generation got irritated at most, eh w/e not my business at most usual.

This whole thread is crying over nothing when you should be worrying about class.

The problem is you blame any feminist for liberal feminism and spreading idpol, but at the same time these threads get more posts than any.

It's telling.

Human civilization as we know it.

How is feminism an anti-communist movement.

You: sitting home at your computer picking dingle berries out your ass

Assata Shakur: Hated the US government world over with Cuba given her haven, as any fellow.

You're as read as the rest of the larpers

woman is the nigger of the world

wew

We can measure society by how it treats women, amirite?

Still salty that your ass wasn't enough to get those dudes away from their video games, huh?

Thanks, I'll go through these. Caliban and the Witch might have to wait a while though.
You count Engels' Origin of the Family as a feminist work?

It warms the cockles of my cock to hear liberals whining about that one time identitarians weren't able to just steamroll a community.

I have quite literally never brought up gamer gate on this board until now.

The only salt is coming from the unwashed armpits of people who have no career future. Dating is kind of like employment, sometimes you're unemployable. I am not going to be salty say, if my coworker isn't the guy applying for the job who shart his pants.

This is where I know more about the chans than you and my strategically phrased question allows me to vanquish the actual error in your judgement.

Gamer Gate didn't accomplish anything. And they're all liberals.

I love how the second gamergate is mentioned all pretense at giving a shit about leftist politics is dropped. The roots of this place run deep.

THIS IS PEAK LIBERAL

meant for

As if that's relevant to what I said.

Gamergate is not incompatible with leftism.

Gamergate matters now as much as the lives of people who participated in it matter now.

So quite a lot

Are you trying to give me a boner? I just explained that I enjoy the salt.

Gamergate is utterly irrelevant to leftism. Keep trying to salvage your reputation though.

Tip your fedora somewhere else.

And yet here you are, two years later, still quaking with butthurt.

Relevancy to and compatibility with are not related.

I agree GG was a massive missed opportunity. It lacked theoretical direction and we could have taken more influence.
Fundamentally though it was born and died a type of resistance. It wasn't trying to "accomplish" anything significant in scope under its own power.

Niggers are also the nigger of the world

Gamergate is incompatible with leftism. If you still care about gamergate you are not a leftist.

Why is it incompatible?

I'm sure there's a cute gamer boy out there for you too.

Oh shit you showed me. I guess I'm a nazi now.

Idpol really is amazingly similar to a religion. Fitting, then, that the direct predecessor to Gamergate was the failed attempt to coopt New Atheism.

I agree that a lot of the hate for identity politics here originally comes from the backgrounds of the participants(i.e. ex rationals and nazis), but that does not mean that we aren't right. I was like that when I first came here a year and a half ago, but over time I eventually learned(both from this community as well as others) that while idpol can do significant damage to a movement, it is retarded to dismiss the ideas of idpol movements like feminism have come up with. What needs to be done is people here need to get a better understanding of exactly how it fucks everything up, as oppose to just saying it does due to old biases and a general gut reaction. In this case, we are just as bad as idpol liberals who say they're feminist bud don't even know who Emma Goldman is. To counter this, we need proof and theoretical understanding.

Its not hard for people to read influential socialist works regarding gender, sex, race, etc., and actually understand what they've supposedly disagreed with for so long. If we do this, we can begin changing peoples opinions, and build a movement focused around class instead of whatever cause is popular this week.

Because it's reactionary nonsense.

No just an idiot

The only people upset at the very idea of gamer gate being put in a negative light are people who actually gave a shit about such a non-movement.

From its very beginnings, it has no right being compared to radical leftism. It's stretching.

You have only one way you know how to criticize things. If all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

Why is it reactionary nonsense?

You're spitting shit you know nothing on cuz.

Stop anfemsplaining sinner

The whole point was to stop bourg kiddies from using the video game economy/industry as a playground for their drama.

Because it was born out of a conspiracy theory about some hipsters on twitter and actively resisted attempts to draw attention to example of actual large-scale corruption in the industry.

...

Nah it wasn't fam.

It was. I was there.

It was born of ~13 articles dropping all at once telling game developers to stop making games for "gamers" because the identity was tied to hatred of women. It ignored larger sites because they weren't involved in that clique and GG was picking a battle.

So was I you literal newfaggot.

It's actually bourg kiddies complaining about bourg kiddies

If your focus on leftism is video games you need to leave, read more, come back. Just feel embarrassed.

Don't bring the sexes into this, men have said it before. This isn't about that, it's about being a bougie pariah with no responsibilities latching onto internet outrage.

This is pathetic, it's been at least two years since this has ever been relevant. Just stop getting upset when people call it what it is.

This is highly ironic considering you just caricatured the alienated loser in capitalism as contemptible.

I am really not interested in treading into this bullshit once again. Holla Forums has shown it's true face tonight.

your false flagging needs some work, nobody is this retarded

Fuck off back to the Bioware forums then.

I've never been there

What lower class in capitalism

Anyone who owns a collection of $60 per product merchandise, that's not lower class.

That never was. Most people who dropped their two cents into this non-movement moment of internet hysteria weren't communist, this wasn't the collectivist dream you were supposing it to be.

Look at the past and shake your head, that's all its good for.

Oh.

Gamergate accomplished one very important thing: It demonstrated that there are leftists and centrists opposed to idpol, to PC, and to the SJWs that push it, the first ever chink in their armor.

Until Gamergate, everyone else, the philosophers, the fine artists, the humanities scholars, the socialists, independent cinema, SF/fantasy authors, the comics industry, the NGOs, the tech industry, all the rest crumpled without resistance. Gamers didn't.

We (along with the precedent of the A+ pushback) provided a spark which in many ways grew to form the nucleus of the left's rebirth in people like Sanders and Corbyn.

The mere existence of Gamergate, its presence, and its refusal to bow down in supplication, is our victory.

pic related

And you have to take care to view it in the broader context of idpol and its toxic effects on organization
Easy mode: youtube.com/watch?v=KmkXCsqJee0

Cool so we went from "it has nothing to do with leftism" to
Yeah I guess the real problem with gamergate is that it wasn't revolutionary enough for you?

what a fucking drama queen

What are you even talking about?
What happened was people being insulted for not living up to some bullshit that feminists hate by a feminist.

I don't know why feminists always become reactionary once upset.

kek

Ayyyyy boi how's life at University?

Never shamed anyone for lack of responsibility and grooming.

As for the idea nobody is this retarded, you have more energy caring about gamer gate than you do class.

You sound like the feminists you bitch about.

Every fucking time

OK now I am legitimately triggered. If you're a false flagger, good job.

It didn't go anywhere. It has nothing to do with the grand scheme of things. A majority of the population who cared were not communists, or read in its body of work.

People like you.

You were the one who made the comparison. Kick yourself in the ass for making such a half fisted comparison.

its more interesting than topic in the OP tbh

Gamergate is relevant to identity politics though.

It gives us an excuse to listen to Chris Ray Gun's beautiful, sexy voice too

But is it more interesting that literally everything else you could be talking about?

Only thing you can do is pirate. If you think you're fighting the man by buying Fallout 4, just the accumulation within your lifetime of which could count to hundreds of dollars of waste.

Video games in general, generate tremendous amounts of waste. Consoles and Alienware pcs just lying around.

I'm sorry, I love I'm being called "false flagger" too.

Just shut your ass.

I'm calling you a false flagger because the persona you present here doesn't know what the fuck class is.
This has nothing to do with class you fucking retard.

Oh.

If you can stretch the majority of gamergate's populace to the class needing emancipation

Get a job. Be in labor. Stop this shit.

We're the ultimate boogyman, the perfect litmus test. Scratch an aGGro, see a goon.

I guess the "feminazi" smear isn't just a joke!

Never said that. It's also not true.

I didn't know the shut ins who numbed themselves from work, let alone any kind of responsibility for themselves, were the working class.

I saw that anons post and thought "Oh hey, more cancer has arrived." Then you posted, and I thought "God dammit, who invited aids?"

I don't play games on consoles. I'm mad that s/he doesn't understand what class is, at even a basic level.

I said plastic products that generate massive amounts of unbought waste by gigantic corporations is wasteful.

No, but really I was complaining about fun.

Sorry bro

lmao ok
you sure played the long game here though, shit.

What class is the general gamergate audience as of today

Let me get a tissue I might cry laughing

It's fun because I see this shit from my rich acquaintances all the time.

They're always bitching about how all these poors can't be THAT poor because they have "flat screen TVs" and iPhones.

They really, honestly think that working class people should be living in a cardboard box in the street and not be allowed any entertainment. Like fucking rich Catholics droning on about suffering being virtuous.

p-please respond

And before you get butthurt, by "what class" I mean, of what are they compared to the actual working class in America. The farmers, gardners, etc.

Just why are you making this into class astounds me.

How about you define class for the class?

Shit, never mind. You confirmed it for me. You really have no clue what class is.

You can't play the ethical consumption card when you're defending the unethical consumption under better market circumstance

You are genuinely a spoilt little brat.

You haven't brought any criticism.

Of what should the gamergate audience somehow out of the blue, be ass pull or vomit out, be in class analysis

Do you really want class analysis of fucking gamer gate

jesus christ you people act like you've been traumatized

That's part of it, but the part that's blowing my mind is that this piece of shit (assuming not a faker) comes in here and pretends to be one of us without even knowing the most basic leftist theory.

Sure thing. Gamergate was a revolution.

Who said it was you cancerous little shit.

Speak for yourself faggot not everybody here is a gamergater

Look at this shit from

Has this person even been in the same room with a book, let alone opened it an tried to decipher the symbols within?

Debt-burdened students? Underemployed stiffs? What country do you think this is?

Remember gamers aren't opposed to games, or developers, but to external agendas imposed by various interests such as capitalists and moral demagogues that prey upon our hobby.

What theory am I breaking, you haven't already broken?

What does entertainment consumption for the petit have anything to do with class struggle. Don't blame me for saying such, you're the one making the argument it is.

And you're right, I haven't read enough to take such a retarded argument into consideration

You don't have to agree with people on everything to still be a leftist along with them.

Explain to me the class struggle of Gamer Gate

Hunger knows no identity and justice is blind
So we are, now fuck off libtards.

First the subject in question has to be "leftist"

boiiiiiiiiiiii

Do they own means of production? No…?

Oh. Fuck me.

This poster has it right.

This too.

...

Get a better hobby like reading instead of making grass roots to demand reform in Capitalism in a specific industry

It wasn't going to happen from the start, and you focused on the wrong issues of the gaming industry itself.

Who's claiming GG to be class struggle? We're mocking you for saying that the people involved in GG were bourgeoisie and not proletarians.

Says the person who thinks working class means

You don't understand the term "working class" for one

But where did this social consciousness come from? My god, was it possibly…a chan?

breathtaking

Also

If they care about their major, they don't care about video games this much if they want decent grades.

One first has to be able to work to be called working class.

I really have no idea whatsoever you're bringing class analysis into idpol. It's more farcical than even the most liberal feminist diatribes.

I never said I meant for them to be just that, just that you are comparing them to them. They're mostly petit bougie.

kek literally nobody is saying that it is class struggle pumpkin, try to keep up

I'd rather say, you don't.

"Capitalism get out of my unhealthy video game hobby I demand it, I know it's possible."

t. Communist not effected by idpol

You were the one who brought up class and gamergate, trying to discredit gg as not working class.

>All self-improvement as defined by my theology, all the time

Feminazi much?

You're implying that I don't know about class.

I'm implying that gamer gate is not a class issue.

Do gamer gaters own the means of production?

Again, I never said such.

I said the entire industry itself is full of waste.

If you take that as insult upon yourself, you aren't smart enough to look through anything other with a critical lens

Please continue shitting on the hopeless, socially destitute, and jobless.

You outright stated here and here that GG is not working class.

i cry evrytime

MAGA

Actually a large few are upper class rich folks who encouraged the movement itself, the movement being composed of teenagers fed to the brim with idpol and the like

I fail to see how gamer gate was anything good to what leftism seeks out to accomplish with rose colored glasses, when for one it wasn't this vague "leftist" to begin with

It's like the term leftism doesn't mean what you think it means.

indeed

Let's assume gamer gate is a working class issue. Which it isn't, but let me toy with it.

Then what.

You reform an industry with more might than you try to break the system itself?

Entertainment has shadowed protest and strike, to such a degree you're willing to waste more energy defending the non-movement full of reactionary petit

Capitalists want to warp games into a method for extracting profit, that sucks because it makes them less fun, but it's somewhat bearable.

Moral demagogues want to shut down the industry, destroy its works, suppress their circulation, and vilify everyone involved. That cannot be allowed to happen.

Caring about gamergate is about as leftist as voting for Hillary Clinton

You have literally no idea about the origins of gamer gate do you.

Made reality by fantasy

Your idea of "upper class" is "owns video games" ( see here ) so that doesn't answer my question.

No fucking shit welcome to Capitalism

Do you really think defending your hobby is worth it, when other factors of life are being corrupted that are more vital than fucking entertainment? Where were you caring this much for the Dakota pipeline, or the rights of migrant laborers?

You care singularly, about this. Because of reasons only sentimental.

Assuming shit nobody is claiming and then "toying with it" is literally all you've been doing already.

Nobody's saying it's a class struggle you retard. We're calling you out for saying the people aren't working class. Whether or not someone is in the working class doesn't depend on whether or not they're tackling a "working class issue" at that moment.

Excuse the meme, but, that's not an argument

...

No actually.

I was saying anyone who wants to waste their money buying a multitude of $60 games and crying about their industry being "corrupted" and not Capitalism itself, isn't very useful to their own cause if they're radical.

That's why you never see radical circles give a shit about gamer gate. They don't not out of idpol, it's crying over spilled milk in a room of never ending spilled milk.

It's laughable. You dare to act arrogant to me when you're the one who thinks he can change Capitalism if enough people yell loud enough, not on rights, not on people, not anything more than what stimulates them.

This is about as necessary as it sounds.

...

People care about things that affect them, and that they can actually see. The bourgeoisie is sloppy with idpol to begin with but they were especially sloppy letting the dumb kids try to subvert video games.

Do you have any actual influence that identarianism was any major component of GG? Or is this the famous "resisting idpol is a type of idpol" line again?

Lmao
Distinction without substance. Everything is contextual. And whether or not people are fundamentally self-interested in the first place, correctly pointing out how a destructive social force hurts THEM will make them more, not less, likely to move against it.
Stop trying to hold it to the standards of a "leftist movement." I've already said it's not to be understood as a movement in itself but as a phenomenon and set of attitudes.
Equating the two is just intellectually dishonest.

When your class extends up to the middle of people who live with their parents who can comfortably provide for them, who don't give a shit about communism and care more about making jokes about Nazi Germany

Sure I really think they're the working class outlined in all those strikes and worker violence set out to establish.

This is so predictable, you're just going to tell me I don't understand class again when you've never made an argument for how its a class issue

Should we all jump off a bridge because radical circles think that's the cool thing to do.

Workplace Deaths

92% of workplace deaths are male.

bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0009.pdf

Suicide

Men are almost 80% of suicide victims.

ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/victims/qa02702.asp?qaDate=2009

Homicide

Men are overwhelmingly more likely to be victims of homicide

bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2221

Homelessness

62% of the homeless in the US are male.

humanneeds.vcu.edu/Page.aspx?nav=29&scope=0&source=13

Men have zero reproductive rights

Circumcision

Girls are protected under law from circumcision, boys are not (his body, not his choice).

War Dead – 99.9% male deaths

avoiceformen.com/activism/about/

thewall-usa.com/information.asp

fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf

And you say women deserve revolution?
When women work and fight as men do then they will deserve revolution.
The workers leftism fights for are almost entirely men for a reason because women want to marry porky.
Women lust after porky and his illicit stolen fruits of labours and means of production.
Not poor old Ivan working at the factory for twenty rubles a week.
Not poor Igor busting his back and buttocks for porky at the mines while porky rails the eleventh "working class" female of the day because she wants desires and allows it.
One prole need only ask, "who sucks the most porky sausage?"
Prole knows "It is women."
And women who lavishly fund porky by buying porky's products like no other.
Women account for what of what spending, well?
Women are the enemy of the proletariat unless they prove themselves otherwise and all studies support this.
Keep marrying up while the prole men are kept hopelessly down by not just porky but even women who claim to be proles.

Women, I invite and dare you to join all manner of working class careers which you complain are male dominated yet women refuse to take up these jobs despite all the large openings in the trades and hard labour. Labour like a man and maybe you will be treated as an equal but not before.

I'll tell you what the others won't. Read Marx.

p00r b8

Actually I'm mocking you for having a typical liberal definition of class and trying to lecture us about it by calling a group that was mostly alienated from childhood a bunch of porkers.

If it took video games to realize you're being exploited, I'm sorry it took so long

This is my argument.

No because you aren't a radical

You're a liberal

B-but OP, how will the working class realize that only the radical left has true solutions?

OC, btw.
context:

Oh this is price, you're calling me a typical liberal for not caring about Gamergate's leftist revolution and progress

If we whine at a certain niche of Capitalist long enough surely that means we care about the Capitalists who actually cause catastrophic damage to everything

You never stop tarnishing the people you then, in the same post, implicitly claim some moral defence for.

But, by the way, how is University?

Alright, let's.

Gamers are by and large the same as most other people, working class stiffs, because there are hundreds of millions of us, over a billion if you count casual phone/social gamers. Game developers, while somewhat higher paid than average, are also working class, often under harsh non-unionized positions. We, gamers and devs alike, just want to enjoy our hobby, and support the artists we love, as one among the many joys that add to life's pleasures.

The people who instigated GG are primarily rich trust fund kiddies, the idle children of rich capitalists, looking for a narcissistic outlet for their class guilt. They peddle influence in return for moral absolution, gangster-style protection rackets, and the ability to push low-effort non-games in a thinly veiled equivalent of the vanity press.

It's not a class issue. That's not the problem with your posts. This guy is right.
Read Marx. Class is a technical distinction based on power in the economy by virtue of property rights. I have been waiting for you to give some concrete definition of class, but at this point it's clearly just some vague value judgement to you.

No it's alright. Class is a spook. Stirner's wife said so.

If you're insulted by someone insulting you on the internet you need to step away.

I almost couldn't get past "we gamers". The point is you care about one tiny fucking industry being corrupt, and not the overwhelming nature of things that can wipe away your worth being corrupt. Or the worth of any and all of us.

You cared about Gamer Gate, fine, I don't give a shit.

You put it on a pedestal of shining light to Anti-Capitalism, you get a problem because a majority of people in it didn't care about reading further into anti-capitalism and you fucking know it.

For all I'm concerned, Gamer Gate as a movement was engineered.

No, and you can even tell that's not the case from the incomplete quote not making grammatical sense. You have no knowledge of class. Read Marx.

wew I guess I should just use my male muh privilege to undo the insult from being made by someone else.

...

I'm not insulted buddy. You have the character of someone with social potential, but the same understanding of the world as one. Keep trying though.

…she says on post 83 she has made on the topic in this thread

It isn't. I'm saying Gamer Gate was not an issue that could help the working class in any way, so tying it with radical leftism is horse shit.

What I care about is the fact we're being stiffed in general, not stiffed by fucking EA. There's bigger EA's than you can possibly imagine and you caring about the tiny version of Goldmann Sachs more than Goldmann Sachs is just insane.

It's almost as though you don't know where it came from/.

It's almost as though you don't actually know what Gamer Gate was.

No, you're saying that gamers are bourgeoisie here
and not working class here

That's what we've been milking you over for the past few dozen posts you lolcow.

(checked
Capped and saved

You cared more about the faux outrage at Anita Sarkasean than you did about gigantic mergers.

You know nothing of class, or nothing of strategy, nothing of action, nothing of really any value

And yet you dare really hardly to say I am all of those things.

If you care about the working class, why don't you start by making a movement that doesn't cater to the entertainment needs of those who wouldn't give a solid fuck about us anyways.

Gamergate was never a leftist movement, that is that.

You're right, you proved my point.

I listed what I did care about. You caring more about this than leftist action.>You have no knowledge of class

A movement that focused itself towards the industry of entertainment, with no issue at all for the tremendous waste it produces regardless.

There were literally worse fucking rip offs and cons of the beginning 00's than this and I hardly see you bringing them up.

No, just the ones who larp on leftypol that they're communists.

I really, really hate to pull the shill gambit, but anfem is probably COINTELPRO
Just remember you guys were the ones to shit all over "rationalists" first

Gamergate was actually.

You guys demonize and condescend on men more than feminists do.

Meant for:

Why in san fucking hell would the FBI give a shit about people saying EA is terrible. They don't give a fuck about you or that.

They care when it starts heading towards the actual money, the banks.

Dude was just shitposting fam, don't bother.

But that's cheating because the answer to what Gamer Gate actually was in response to, goes hand in hand with where it came from. This is where you should rightfully observe the idea that you need to stop posting about this.

That's a pretty big assumption.
lol ok

Probably because it's not related to the topic at hand.

Yeah ok you still don't get what class actually means. Here's a hint: M E A N S O F P R O D U C T I O N
And here's some advice: read Marx.

If so it'd be pretty funny how inflexible anfem is about this. Basically no capacity for improvisation like she's following a script.

Yes, that's why gg made a point of circulating information on COINTELPRO.

Yeah, nobody is genuinely this dense.

The problem is that gamergate was never about the grander scheme of Capitalism fucking them over, it was about fucking games over.

They could care less board members shift from board to board back, like our lives are just some fucking club. They could give a shit the money involved at the top. They don't give a shit about any of it.

The vast majority. They'd fucking rather laugh at the thought of doing anything about it than doing anything about it at the same level of energy they gave a shit about feminism corrupting video games more than capitalism corrupting art.

Some people are.

One can only hope. Don't always have the best eye for sarcasm when it lacks a smiley or whatever.

Anyone can fucking do that. A coloring book can be about shooting a police officer, a movement about a certain entertainment industry popular the world over being focused on corruption more than the blatant ripping of our rights to life by gigantic banks

Well, the former is a catastrophe, the latter is another Sunday. Right? Don't say you care about both. My whole point was you should, you just care about it more because your priorities are fucked.

Yeah but what you're not getting is that none of that makes them not working class. Leftism isn't about securing a nice life for the elites who read the most theory. It's about establishing a classless society where all can prosper.

I think it's about time that any board with "pol" in its name is fucking retarded.

Cute diversion. The point I was making with that quote is gg isn't COINTELPRO because if it was it would be COINTELPRO agitating a bunch of people and then revealing their hand to those same people.

It isn't.

You keep saying I don't have an argument to stand on, when I make my argument clearer all you can say is "lol ok" at the obvious

I don't even understand why

I could talk days and days about how the video game industry is more focused on shooters to recruit to the military, but it's all fun, so it's all good.

I could talk a lot about how caring this much about entertainment is detrimental when it overshadows the care for legitimate topics.

I know what class means you fucking simpleton. I'm saying you should care about it.

Bullshit. It was about a certain type of people using games as a scapegoat for their own advancement, the exact same people who had destroyed organized leftism before.

Gamergate was the first time anyone outside the right-wing dared to stand up against these scum and tell them to stop.

Not to butt in, but it's up to you to substantiate the claim that GamerGate or whatever had aims to do this. For me too, GamerGate was just another way to bicker about to one's flavour of soma and only dug one deeper into being class unconscious.

Hey. Im from Holla Forums I am here with a bag of popcorn just watching the in-fighting.

I hate you fucks. I hate your arrogance. This board is like a thick fart that won't air out of the room.

I come here to literally just watch the disorder and late stage decay of your movement.

Who else here comfy?

The working class could think Trump or Hillary are going to save the demise of Capitalism, they can think or care about a lot of things.

What they care most about is entertainment, more than their own freedom.

It isn't about the lives of those who devote themselves to entertainment product either. It's even less so.

You don't even have theory or argumentation besides, "GAMERGATE WAS LEFTIST, THIS ONE THING YOU SAID CAN BE INTERPRETED AS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING CLASS I WIN"

I understand class perfectly, I'm saying people who care about their entertainment more than their class are not by any imagination "leftist"

This isn't anything you wouldn't see academics doing at any point in history. At least we're fighting over something, not gnawing on the next piece of meat.

Laugh while you can, monkey boy.

When the pendulum swings in reverse, and all the moralfagging christards swarm your board, you'll be too busy fighting for survival to chuckle.

Me, with a can of peanuts (objectively the best salty snack)

Everything you've written in this post is false. The fact that you can't divine between the 'feminism is bad' ethic and the anti-consumerist ethic just highlights that you can't tell where or what it came from. Which is why you should stop posting.

You demonstrably don't, and have been given ample opportunity to clarify but you haven't because you don't understand what it means.

Nobody was claiming GG was a leftist movement. The closest was a post that it's not incompatible with leftism.

Yup. Same shit that happened with GG happened countless other times. Leftism is one of the first casualties.

No, leftism is very much about liberating people from the conditions that push them toward escapism. Try again.

And yet nobody in gamergate connected the dots to see Capitalism always fucking does this, and in a grander scale, does this more than thousands of times a month. I'm being generous with just thousands, in places and ways you wouldn't think of.

And everything outside of that.

No. It was literally all about cultural marxism destroying our culture.

This was not a movement that cared for the future any more than it cared for the next bottle of gamer fuel and getting furious over censorship in Dead or Alive

This is the cringiest meme of all.

Maybe the zoo should throw lions and seals and penguins and bears into the same cage.

If you don't have the god given fucking ability to recognize the most basic pattern of hierarchy then I don't know what else there is to say.

A classless society where all can prosper…even under the most favorable conditions….is a utopian faggotquest.

What in the fuck is wrong with you guys? This board?

And yet nobody in gamergate connected the dots to see Capitalism always fucking does this, and in a grander scale, does this more than thousands of times a month. I'm being generous with just thousands, in places and ways you wouldn't think of.

It's almost as though consumerists are latently denied any form of meaningful social consciousness with an ethic in direct opposition to Capitalism.

...

Oh, I guess it's not my business then.

First of all you are making the same mistake as anfem in not knowing what class is. It's got a very specific meaning in a leftist context.

This.

Think for a moment. What does fullcommunism actually LOOK like? As far as the day-to-day intricacies?

We don't know exactly. But we CAN get closer by scientifically criticizing the existing mode of production. It's the same way scientific theories grow, develop and evolve. What """are""" atoms, really? That point is less salient than that of how to better describe their behavior, in reference to existing and old theories, that we may make useful predictions.

GG harshly criticized part of the cultural fallout of capitalism, whether consciously "leftist" or not. That much is unambiguously important.

Nope.

Even if I didn't, this isn't about if I do or I don't. I do. Let's say I don't anyways.

What did Gamer Gate help the working class with? The lower class? Explain to me what you fought for, striding high for Marxism

You didn't do shit so there's no reason to get upset at criticism of it, particularly when you force a marxist analysis of it.

Nobody forced you into a certain market, and nobody forced you to be surprised that market was just as capitalist as any other.

Nobody forced you to care about the ones with the actual money is the actual problem.

Never did I disagree with this. Actually I totally agree with it.

And I fucking knew it going in, so why do you assume I don't?

The average person is more willing to care about tabloids about a tiny industry than a fucking ENRON ever again

...

It blatantly is. You still can't answer the basic question of where Gamer Gate came from or what it was.

Reminds me of Wolff talking about "entrepreneurs" rediscovering workplace democracy without any knowledge of leftism.

Leaving aside the point that in centuries of capitalism from the 1780s to the 2010s, leftism as a whole had never once been on the wrong side of the censorship/freedom divide in art…

There was a board that became way more popular, somewhere on Holla Forums. I think you've heard of it?

Corruption of the gaming industry by G4 types. But it was your choice to selectively care and focus all your energy on that instead of say, fucking Austerity.

I'm the upper class now.

No… just the same tasteless, dried up, meat you have been gnawing on for 100 years with no success.

Its really not a science. I don't know where the fuck you guys get off thinking that human nature is approachable with the level of reorganization and fantasy you discuss here.

That isn't the issue. Besides being false.

But a few posts above you claimed that Gamers didn't care they were being fucked over. Which is it?

First of all you should stop clinging on to Marxist dogma like it's the fucking bible

What is Capitalism's success?

We know only a single science, the science of history. One can look at history from two sides and divide it into the history of nature and the history of men. The two sides are, however, inseparable; the history of nature and the history of men are dependent on each other so long as men exist. The history of nature, called natural science, does not concern us here; but we will have to examine the history of men, since almost the whole ideology amounts either to a distorted conception of this history or to a complete abstraction from it. Ideology is itself only one of the aspects of this history.

Wew lads, time to call off the D&C shills and pack it up, our work here is done.

Probably because you say shit like

in the very same fucking post. You clearly don't understand how any of this works. Ideology is shaped by the material conditions. It doesn't spring whole cloth from some kind of free will that all the proles have.

or what class is

REEEE STOP HAVING A LESS SPARTAN EMPHASIS ON IDEOLOGICAL PURITY THAN ME
You're like a trot without the theory.

Is An Fem poster Muke?

It's human nature

lol I'm not a marxist, that also has a specific meaning in a leftist context. You should maybe try knowing some things about a subject before you start spouting your opinions

Fuck you, it's fun pointing out how anfem has apparently read less than zero books.

They didn't care they were being fucked over by the material that can actually fuck them over. The banks, the government, the fucking lobbyists turned politicians, the politicians turned lobbyists

Nothing

They cared about largely, quickly after it was founded, identity politics and where the cultural marxism was in my favorite hobby, what ghastly conspiracy changed this lolis underwear etc, art being censored.

Besides not knowing what art actually is, these people could barely even fucking pull a punch at the people.

The people they targeted were fucking saints compared to some of the people who fuck us over daily. And you never see them doxxing them.

I'm more interested in the concept of Gamergate being cointelpro than anything else. It has all the hallmarks.

It doesn't matter man. I don't worry about not being a 7 foot basketball star. I don't worry about not being a rocket scientist. I don't worry about not being things I am not.

There will never be equal out comes. Ever.

Also not explaining what the context is. Treating it like some kind of fucking enigma. ???

Then explain it fucker.

Muke is bae I love him dont shittalk him

Where's the "book" thatt encourages you selectively care about the political action and organization of defending the purity of mass media more than the people actually fucking us over

I think I'd have to get into a position in law enforcement to read those

But they do. It's entirely latent and points out how glaring your lack of knowledge of this is when taken in conjunction with

You're basically slipping into the same shit Rebel did with his "Oh no they've found out I'm talking out my ass better begin to lie and say I was trolling all along" charade. Just stop posting in this thread.

...

Stop pushing idpol so hard and we'll stop being against it. All you're doing is doing everything in your power to obfuscate and ignore class issues, even attacking those who stand for class issues on matters of idpol. I'm focusing on the only issue that actually matters, class issues, stop pushing other nonsense issues and I'll stop being against them.

Are you a COINTEL pro stooge?

When was the last time capitalism caused every press outlet, every internet forum including 4chan, every major online organization including including the EFF and Internet Archive, to unite as one against the pettiest imaginable defiance?

No they don't. They care about what they're being manipulated towards next.

I don't care what the fuck they were like in the begining, I care about what they were like.

Gamergate really fucking ended in nothing, and helped nothing.

Not at all.

The topic is political moments. Gamergate is an example of something that set out to do what it did, selectively care about how big the cock was fucking their ass.

As long one cock isn't in the way of the screen we're good

everything you see in front of you.

Probably the embarrassing display of 4chan vs Scientology, which had just as much embarrassing consequences for the community as a whole as gamergate did

Trying this hard.

...

Really? Because the space race was initiated when the Soviets managed to beat the West to space not only in satellite but man.

So for triggering the space race itself, you should really thank Soviet Russia for there even being an Apollo program to kick start computers.

There's really nothing inherently Capitalistic about creating new technology. Argue there is.

A microchip isn't in existence simply for the fact Capitalism made it. Any group can figure out how its structured, what it does, how to work from here.

To say otherwise is fucking ridiculous.

Oh, no I just didn't want to write a wall of text if you weren't gonna read it. But since you ask…

Class is a system of power where the economy is divided into different classes of people. The different classes fulfill different roles in production (using labor to make/do something socially useful, converting labor value into exchange value). In a society without class everyone is a worker and controls the value they produce. In a society with class there is an imbalance. Some people own the means of production while others do not. This gives them (the ruling class, upper class, ownership class, or bourgeoisie) a virtual monopoly on that society's production. The workers have to negotiate with them for the opportunity to work. Without access to MoP, they have to effectively rent the right to earn money through work from the bourgeoisie. The rent is deducted from their pay in a system called wage labor. The workers never see the value of their labor - it goes directly to the owners, who pay the workers as little as they can get away with. This is the root of class struggle - both groups have an interest in maximizing their share, but one has control.

That's it in a nutshell. It's a fuckload more complex than that.

Actually, I just ctrl+f'd the German Ideology. Not that hard at all.

Also, not an argument :v)

This is indefatigably wound up into the two basic questions of what Gamer Gate was and where it came from. The fact that others have a divergent perspective on this matter should put a big question mark around your own knowledge on this matter and the need to shut up. That you aren't doing this implies: A) you're autistic B) you genuinely believe the shit you're saying or C) you're just goading resentment from GGers.

You need to stop posting fam.

That was just people fucking around, newfag.
It wasn't actual "activism." It only got perceived that way due to the nature of the target

COINTELPRO

That didn't cause a hysterical witch hunting purge in every single online forum, banning users and slandering long-respected members of every community.

Gamergate was nearly unprecedented.

If people cared this much about getting fucked over outside of video games, their underage angsty population should care about the gigantic 9 foot long cock called The Rand Corporation, or the 10 foot long cock of The Council on Foreign Relations

Where it came from
does
not
matter

It created nothing constructive, I hate its existence not for the fact I'm a feminist and eww icky men, it's that leftism is infiltrated by non-actors like you who give as much of a shit about the material as the person who isn't a radical.

If they give you a fucking good video game, you'll just praise accelerationism at the cost of the impoverished and shrug

Chanology was just the opposite.

hehehe

OK, where do you think the term "newfag" comes from?

This is some absurd irony considering you shit on stupid-head proles a moment ago, or that you still whip them with the stunted caricature of "feminism icky men".

Yes it actually did.

It was destructive towards the reputation of anyone who wishes to go against corporate interest. The most energetic push back was when Capitalism touched video games and interactive media.

The 08 crash caused but a whimper.

It's almost as if these people lack an education / social consciousness in opposition to Capitalism.

God, these stupid people. They should all attend seminars on how Marxism is….oh.

Yes, there are social issues. No, acknowledging them and thinking they shouldn't exist does not mean you have to act like you're on /r/socialism or tumblr.

Being a prole does not make your decision making wise. The fact we still participate in elections and believe our candidates different is evidence enough the working class is both working with what it has and willing to just not learn, basically anything political, before mouthing off about how Bush, Obama, Hillary or Trump, will bring us prosperity.

This isn't an argument.

It is, almost as if they aren't class conscious

They should just pull up their bootstraps I mean put on their class-consciousness glasses.

Better whip them more
Because you don't see it as one. There was a latent potential for an anti-consumer movement from the same culture which grew Gamer Gate. This is now just a whipping block for you to express whatever fantasies you have on what class means, considering you're only posts on this seem to regard class as some mystical measure of "upper" and "lower". God forbid that this all takes place in a thread about identity politics, one of the topics this site struggles with.

Not to butt in again, but c'mon, now that's not even trying with that strawman.

Yeah. They should.
Now how do you get them to?

Leaving aside the old Ghazi meme of "gamers getting upset about SJWs means they don't care about capitalism", has it occurred to you that the primary weapon gamers have against capitalism, leftist agitation, was rendered inoperative by those selfsame SJWs?

The problem isn't whether to react one way or another to social issues. The problem is that laws have fixed social issues to the extent that sufficient economic prosperity now renders every one of them irrelevant.

How? You are blaming the proletariat for not being class conscious enough instead of blaming porky, let alone the system itself for putting them in that position.

I should really just stop here.

I really shouldn't explain that china combines the worse aspects of capitalism and communism into one destructive in-human machine.

But posting that infographic with zero irony. Not recognizing china is a cesspool and that the west, that is western enlightenment, is the alpha to the beta of this shit show.

We don't fucking care anymore chink. At all. We don't care how quickly you assemble and ship plastic trinkets and led lights.

You are just NOW having your industrial revolution.

Sad.

Tbqh, you're about one post away from claiming betas are cucks and thinking it's the shit because you said it in a mildly ironic way

By calling them icky male teenaged doodoo heads.

Yes, organizing and demanding labor is really the hardest thing to fucking do.

The begining of the 20th century proved that dying in the street fighting for the right to earn or the right to be a body and not a tool, showed how unusually pointless it all was to fight.

Not the people who put near equal amount of energy into Capitalism doing what it always does to mass media.

This is about the fact people cared more about getting fucked over by EA

than their entire lives being fucked over in every direction

Seeing as how much they care about video games more, I think it's a lost cause. Let them complain about identity politics from race once they start being in the position of their peers and wonder where it all went

Wouldn't be far from what leftypol tells towards anyone who gives a shit

Pic related.

Probably because they use their 'hobby' as a distraction from the disaster that is their life you fucking retard.

Ugh. When you're trying to be snarky and fuck it up….

Actual pic related this time….

Are you implying that, like the big government, military, public university science that created every significant technology of the last two centuries, China's responsibility for "everything you see in front of you" may not be purely socialist or capitalist in nature?

Yeah, I guess that does sum it up, doesn't it

You. Have. To. Go. Back.

In socialism, the incentive is that you won't have to work as much if you innovate. In capitalism, innovation means your job is no longer needed so you've lost your source of income and therefore your source of food.

Are you arguing that there has to be incentive to a bunch of neets to worry about their lives

I mean, there will be eventually. But I doubt at that point they'll be looked upon by the next generation of fucking shits as worse than baby boomers and more impoverished.

The problem isn't me saying mean shitty things to "gamers", the problem is "gamers" don't make the obvious jump from, this company is fucking me over to, what other companies are fucking me over.

It didn't happen in any real significant way. It became the same internet nazi salt shit

I am not that anfem you are even replying to originally:
What do you mean, where do I do this?
I only suggested that the soma is something we have to reimagine completely, not just change its forms every few years to suit the interests of a market.

What?

Don't take a joke seriously, take it from someone who replies to your posts

Its capitalist in nature. China doesn't wake up everyday and produce mountains of garbage for idiots without the incentive to do so.

Trying to cleverfag. 0/10

I'd argue you're the one trying to be clever by recycling what your fucking dad told you how Capitalism made the baby boomer's lives wonderful and amazing.

They didn't invent shit anyways

funded by taxation of people in the free market

funded by taxation of people in the free market

funded by taxation of people in the free market

You need to stop reading Stirner.

Prove that there exists a market with no rules of exchange.

Think of it like this:

Generic everyday capitalist oppression is along the lines of "I want you to pay more rent. I want you to live in an apartment instead of a house. I want you to live closer to work in an urban slum instead of out in the country."

Gamergate was the equivalent of "As of now, you are banned from owning a personal residence, go sleep on the streets."

One is the everyday shit you struggle against that makes life more miserable, the other is an absolute seizure of power.

How would I know that? If you posted this then in the context of the other anfem's posts that's exactly how it appears. The other anfem was repeatedly insulting proles and blaming them for their lot in life. These posts were a response to criticism of that argument.

None of these are my posts.
These are:

Yeah, if we had socialism maybe all that labor could be doing something useful.

So, again, how do you mobilize the anesthetized masses into political action?
Perhaps by relating anticapitalist thought and action to their own lives and concerns, as they are?

It's actually a well-known corrollary of the Hahn-Banach Theorem

Therefore forcing you to face the reality that unless you adapt you perish.

Humanity is not a fucking daycare center.

Also, I would argue for IDs but some here are explicitly against it.

k

The same free market that would collapse like a fucking jenga tower without defense, without the one point five trillion going into the useless f-35

You need to stop thinking so little of people.

Except Gamergate was never that severe. Severity is living your life wondering how you'll pay your health insurance to fucking pharma companies unless you go broke, severity is wondering if you'll ever live comfortably, severity is wondering if you should reccomend anyone have kids in context of the future's uncertainty

Severity is not, and never will be, some dinky fucking corporation named EA being a dinky fucking failure corporation

It will be about the failure corporations who have no legal limits to stop failing with thousands times more money.

Don't see Gamer Gate as a movement, but an event. This how GGers still see Gamer Gate, and the culture which preceded it, not what came after.

It would help if you weren't such a little person.

Well then you're badly misplacing your trust if you're assuming the other anfem wasn't bald-facedly lying about the basics of the argument happening here. Specifically I mean this:
This was never a claim anyone was making. The other anfem was mischaracterizing the back-and-forth in what was apparently a successful attempt to confuse people reading the thread.

Trying to get you to give a shit about the workplace is a chore already, how the hell am I going to convince you to strike about it?

It's up to you. But you're not proving me wrong in any capacity by gloating about how the majority of the population thinks collectivism is icky.

Which again, points back to Gamergate's majority demographic being what it appears.

Relating to these people is pointless. It never worked in the past, it won't work now.

Little people?

It could be if you'd stop insisting that it can't be. We're well past the point where socially necessary labor is minimized.

"Gamergate wasn't a movement, gamergate was an event'

My dad is a hardcore leftist. NYT for breakfast. NPR for lunch. The New Yorker for dinner.

Not half as sick as this burn

Uneducated people who care in certain degrees how they're getting fucked over. Educated enough to see it, not educated enough to see the blinding light from the neon sign porky has inches from your eyes saying "sucker"

Ah I see, you decided to go against the advice of your elders because of your daddy & mommy issues.

Imagine life as a prole with no art. No games, no movies, no paintings, no songs, no poetry, no dancing, no ornamental elements in clothing or other products, no books.

Imagine, further, instead of being pushed by the traditional sources of Christians, Muslims, or the like, it was pushed by the very leftists who had fought for centuries against such heartlessness.

THAT is severe.

...

Are you fucking serious. "We're" in this context quite literally means white upper middle class

Defeating the logic of your own ideology this tactfully and assuming I support the size of the fed gov and redistribution of wealth.

Capitalism relies on the clown, you don't have to worry and make up events that will never happen. Capitalism will never give up media just as much as it will give up defense.

I just don't get it, I guess. In 2014 when all that shit first started it seemed to be just about some slut or whatever and I wanted to avoid it like the plague. From an outsiders perspective like mine it seemed to culminate only in replacing the the formerly-disatisfied-with journalists with perhaps an even more subversive form of the same thing, a bit more idpol and a little more vague, abstract "rights."

I do not trust anyone at the moment and am trying to distance myself as much as I can. I am sorry.

It isn't my "ideology", it is yours. Since the Cold War, Capitalism has made its market almost entirely off defense. weapons systems. ICBMs.

Get rid of that and what do you get? A crash that makes the great depression look like missing rent

Thanks for admitting economics is all but ideology

OK, first of all the middle class is not an actual class. Second, no I mean "we" as in "the West" if not indeed "the Earth." We easily produce enough food and shelter for the world at this point. The problem is not lack of production, but lack of distribution. "We" are still a society altogether that includes the richest of the rich and poorest of the poor. The existence of poverty currently is not an issue of underproduction. It's an issue of poor distribution.

Want some nice Capitalism? The Industrial Revolution you can always lobby for. Thank us for improving your fucking conditions

Yeah I don't blame you.

You need to go back

Are you suggesting that you should start caring about making that a reality? What a fucking shock, I'm serious.

You haven't given all but a shit about anything besides someone chastising gamergate

Thanks for the tid bit I must have never read before, but this wasn't your point

Who said hate?

You can hate someone's choices, not their person.

It already happened at least once, with comics in the USA. An entire medium went from booming industry, to ghost town, by the time the Code was eventually dismantled.

Do you understand the concept of staying on topic? I haven't discussed other shit because that's not the point of the thread nor our back and forth.

I wasn't talking to you, you narcissist. I'm having more than one conversation in this thread.

Gee it must be awfully dingy in that motte of yours

Or that which is most basic to survival.

Cool story.

More than you. I didn't fall for faux anti-establishment make-your-own-resistance shake and bake that was gamergate

You want to tell me how to encourage others to care about the fucking state they're in? If you know more than I, why not explain it to me.

How? Telling them stories about it? Appealing to them?

Watch it blow back in your face you naive cunt

Projecting.

Yes, because the West (especially the US) is under constant existential threat that warrants constant wars of aggression.

Really? I thought that was food and water. Capitalism must be shitty and grossly negligent at its job, with famines you like to shove under the rug.

My parents may disagree with me, but at least they stand for something that isn't 90 more years of MTV

thank who? Who is "us"

Gee maybe you should take a lesson from gamergate and relate capitalism to things that people actually care about and see if that works.

The labor movement and the marxists, the ones you say do nothing.

They allow your ass to spend as much time on image boards as you do, not cracking your hands open to the bruised hands of a child worker in an asbestos covered factory.

If you're all for Capitalism, encourage that.

Because without the Soviet Union in terms of defense? What you have technologically wouldn't exist. Were it not for labor, what you have in any possible leisure and safety wouldn't exist.

Capitalism wasn't agreeable ever, period

...

The "movement" which came after had to latch onto definitive goals for what "they" saw as necessary change in the industry so the entire thing wouldn't fizzle out. This became the farce of making meaningless targets and having no idea how to achieve them.

The most significant thing to take away from Gamer Gate is that it crystallized a couple years worth of dissipated and ever-increasing hatred for not only the strawmen of what would become the "movement's" aim, but the entire basis which gave rise to these strawmen (the industry, the corporations, their PR tactics - which were fucking abhorrent).

Every living thing is under constant existential threat.

However I recognize the limitations of capitalism and the constant push for growth and its neglegence of the human condition. I readily admit capitalisms failings.

I just can't fucking believe you guys fall for the ramblings of a bitter kike who died over 100 years ago. For fucks sake.

I don't disagree on any point you made. The whole point is to not focus on it and focusing on hating it defeats this.

You mean economics

Reality is a social construct, shitIord.

Two anfem posters ITT is plenty, thank you very much Holla Forums

Theory is complex, so I have to let middle schoolers dumb it down into jokes because the implications hurt my feelings.

The quickest way to find out who is underage and unwilling to read, is those who act their age

I don't think you quite understand what mtv is anymore.

mtv.com/news/2953070/lady-problems-what-to-do-and-how-to-help/
mtv.com/news/2953786/trump-music-silver-lining-myth/
mtv.com/news/2953075/donald-trump-what-we-know/
mtv.com/news/2953022/the-real-losers-and-winners-weve-got-some-work-to-do-edition/
mtv.com/news/2953878/delete-your-account-america-horror-show/
mtv.com/news/2953807/qa-media-critic-jennifer-pozner-on-how-reality-tv-helped-bring-us-a-donald-trump-presidency/
mtv.com/news/2955021/shirtless-trump-saves-drowning-kitten/
mtv.com/news/2951443/empathy-for-the-devil/
mtv.com/news/2945657/donald-trump-election-concession-comments/
mtv.com/news/2944736/there-will-be-no-gop-reckoning/
mtv.com/news/2943663/the-allegations-against-donald-trump-are-nothing-new/
mtv.com/news/2942144/what-should-republicans-do-next/
mtv.com/news/2941669/how-white-racial-backlash-brought-us-donald-trump/
mtv.com/news/2939411/the-king-is-with-her/
mtv.com/news/2938823/trump-white-people-like/
mtv.com/news/2920002/getting-beaten-by-a-girl/
mtv.com/news/2917678/white-tears-in-trumps-america/
mtv.com/news/2894270/memo-to-the-gop-you-did-this-to-yourself/
mtv.com/news/2889024/note-to-rnc-donald-trump-is-racist
mtv.com/news/2887993/donald-trumps-bandwagon-is-full/
mtv.com/news/2879811/donald-trumps-foreign-policy-is-republican-wish-fulfillment/
mtv.com/news/2875147/from-hillary-to-trump-with-love/
mtv.com/news/2863375/ted-cruz-is-no-anti-trump/
mtv.com/news/2799509/trumps-voters-are-not-his-victims/
mtv.com/news/2753626/suge-knight-advises-gop/
mtv.com/news/2752425/donald-trump-michael-savage/
mtv.com/news/2750175/ben-carson-campaign-suspended-for-real-this-time/
mtv.com/news/2739284/what-makes-a-person-vote-for-donald-trump/
mtv.com/news/2739284/what-makes-a-person-vote-for-donald-trump/
mtv.com/news/2951851/to-the-frat-bros-who-support-trump/
mtv.com/news/2944999/living-empathetically-in-a-safe-space/
mtv.com/news/author/dodsonj/
mtv.com/news/2941956/being-a-fat-woman-during-trumps-campaign/

So now what is to be done about what remains? If it has been "corrupted" so-to-speak by a haphazard and wavering objective, then what can one do to either rejuventate the power it has to evoke intense passions in gamers, or to conclude it and keep it as a reminder? Or something else altogether?

So you're trying to tell us something with the juvenile insults targeting the working class?

I was using it as an example. Liberal or Conservative, it's all just the same shit.

If you believe MTV is communist you're a retard and you need to stop pretending to understand political practice. You can't even clean your own ass if you think telling me liberals exist just BTFO me

It didn't, I meant 90 more years of this

you need to provide even the slimmest data on this

You're the one defending inaction and encouraging action as juvenile insult. Some of the working class are nazis, are they too, sacred cows we must convince?

They will cling to their nationalism as the last familiarity they have before the thing they trusted in the most rips them and their value piece by piece

All the while taking out their pent up frustration on a cabal of jews in EA for the purposes of ethics in game journalism

You are now literally comparing people playing video games to nazis.

Computing as it was in the 70's and 80s was directly from military and space research, evolved over time and ingenuity, certain ideas about it, into now.

None of what you see here without the space and arms race, it finally encouraged Capital to move its ass. Without the Soviet Union, you simply would not see the competition.

Computing and processing as we do in Moore's Law would be as theoretical as commercial quantum computing in 1979 for about a century.

Sure did pal. It's why I said there are certain people in the working class are nazis, should we respect them? You looked through my subliminal tricks to see I said, some people in the working class are nazi gamers

Anfem do you think Barron is qt

Yeah, you're a real trickster. The backlash you got definitely didn't have anything to do with you maligning proles for being poor and unwashed.

Remember what it was and where it came from. The entire thing came from an online community apparatus dedicated to social consciousness (not wound into a profit motive). Gamer Gate straddled an important line on this matter. Had Gamer Gate happened two or four years prior when the Chan from which it came from was in a better condition, the thing probably would've blown a wider hole through which the "actual left" could climb (i.e. class consciousness).

Yes! He is one of those few children that aren't so repulsive and I could actually find endearing. And he's a little mommy's boy to boot. What a natural heartthrob.

I will have to try my bedst to be more sympathetic then…

It didn't. It actually didn't have anything to do with that, since you don't care about them. They're usually not white, and you could do their labor, but you don't. They have no unions, and no support. And work for the gardens of adult children who think their oppression doesn't extend beyond the media they've become addicted to.

The people who are addicted to the progression of escapism motivated by Hollywood blockbusters are the people we need to convince the most.

Don't fuck with kids who have parents that old. It's a disaster.

4chan wasn't the real crux. I think the true faultline was the downfall of SA a few years earlier. From what I understand, it had something to do with a forum-wide bet about Ron Paul's future success causing all the rightists to get banned when he crashed and burned, combined with raid backfire from the bitingbeaver trolling.

If GG had happened back then, the entire SJW phenomenon could've been nipped in the bud.

Stormfront realised this before you.

It could have been nipped in the bud had EA not used them to defend their shitty games
REE

Oh, you mean those people the liberals continue to alienate with identity politics?

I find it interesting it's more lauded and praised than what Biology, as soft as a science as it already is, showed its hand at explaining human behavior and nature.

They came up with an abomination called Evolutionary Psychology, and they've been laughed at since. Poor sods.

Don't listen to what you hear on the internet, Marxism and theory go hand in hand. If you would rather take the advice of borderline aristocratic British biologists who can't pass peer review with barely a hair, I have nothing to do but wish you well.

It is an example of many biopolitical nonsense you'll be immersed in.

We need to stop with the feminism that's been linked at the hip since the beginning of Marxism and Collectivism, because liberals are getting offended, so we can convince the liberals.

I've heard this argument so many times, if you want to accuse anyone of being organized cointelpro it's people who hash this recycled argument

Stormfront won't change anything. They want to save Capitalism, god bless their retarded hearts they can try to stop the inevitability of their valueless position in it.

Feminists abandoned Marxism first

Are you autistic though?

...

*Liberals abandoned Marxism first

What does Stormfront hope to accomplish? Ridding the other isn't an accomplishment to save themselves.

Do you have a problem with either?

A new and unparalleled era in quality television and entertainment programming.

So stormfront's greatest accomplishment is bringing us a hybrid of what Tyler already did on adult swim and the ali-g show

I think they should go to jail

Idpol is a problem because the academic basis for it has created a body of work that provides idpol with a self-justification. We can't argue them down because their belief system is internally coherent, although it's insane from any other perspective. The solution is simply to eject/ignore them.

...

Where do you think I do that?

Jesus christ one of the posters in this thread (likely OP) is litterally this strawman.

>tubmlr

I don't usually save alt-right memes, because they are silly. But OP is quite litterally that strawman.

Perhaps. I do have to disagree with the OP and think there's really not enough anti-idpol even, and especially, from myself.

"Normal Person" makes a good point. Perhaps I'm not redpilled enough to understand the implication that comic is trying to make.

Its just a picture of an SJW pretending to not be an SJW and saying that opposing SJW's is just as bad and that they're all sexist reactionaries.

Its not meant to apply to alt right "anti-sjw" in this context.

It's irrelevant what people's beliefs are when the consequences are immaterial. That's why class is the only issue that actually means anything, whatever internalized prejudices or spooks people have inside is wholly irrelevant and completely up to them. They have every right to go and live a happy spooked life.

It's a good way of dissuading people from attempting any introspection or self-reflection. Since anyone now anyone questioning the group can be instantly dismissed as being "The Enemy" with the use of a single image stereotype.

We didn't dismiss them instantly.

But after lots of responses OP basically ousted himself by saying things such as
and
and

This led me to the conclusion that OP merely acted as if he or she was intented on serious discussion, when in actuality he or she just got butthurt that we didn't fall for their
trickery

Not just anybody, specifically apologists for the enemy.

Anti-idpol isn't an ideology itself, just a lack of ideology.

Next you'll be saying atheism isn't a religion. *tipping intensifies*

OP here.

well this became a fucking mess pretty quickly.

haha what i didn't say any of that.

i still think its hilarious that this caused so much butthurt. i'm not a liberal lol

Dear lord this thread went from bad to worse.

the manifesto is actually pretty shitty, theory wise.

fuck off you spooked faggot