Can anyone redpill me on Italy's upcoming referendum? Some say it could be bigger than brexit if "no" wins. Others say it's not as serious as some make it sound. From a purely technical view if "no" wins then they simply retain the 70 year old constitution as it is now. But it seems the referendum has gained a much broader political meaning, and not only because of Renzi's personal gamble.
What are the implications of either answer? Why would it be bigger than brexit?
the EU will disintegrate within a year if Italy leaves. The Euro will be junk.
Hopefully no wins.
Please, we want poor countries to leave EU and euro. Portugal,Spain,Italy and Greece only weaken the union(not to mention the Baltic states and Poland).
Northern Italy is one of the richest and most productive parts of the EU. The country needs to be split in half
Plus Poland is one of the fastest growing economies in Europe
Western Poland is. So we need to cut both Poland and Italy in half?
As far as I understand prime minister Renzi himself has made the referendum bigger and more personal than it is technically. He repeated a few days ago that he will resign if "no" wins. His campaigning for the "yes" vote has also turned referendum into a vote for his politics in general rather than simply being about constitution. So the "no" vote has now become a vote against the technocratic neoliberal government in general, and partially a vote for the anti-EU MS5 party. Lots of people won't simply vote against the constitutional change but against anything they dislike about the current politics.
What the heck, I thought I was on Holla Forums. You guys want no to win too? And you support the secession of Padania too?
Of course we want "no" to win, are you stupid? Read what they want to change in the constitution. The question is only how much of an impact can the "no" vote make on the future of the EU.
Italy is not voting whether to GTFO the EU or not. It's nothing comparable.
Still, the EU wants Italy to vote Yes for a very simple reason: a No means the populist folks (Movimento 5 Stelle, Lega Nord, Forza Italia, the fascists of Casapound, etc.) get to celebrate and Renzi's popularity has declined.
This populism business scares the shit out of the EU because, now that Trump won in the US they're afraid the Zeitgeist is in favor of all manner of alt-right and far right political groups in Europe as well - these two are far more closely connected in the Old World than in the US. Just look at Austria, and all manner of elections going on in Europe REAL SOON.
Whereas a Yes winning means Renzi's reign carries on, and lawmaking in Italy will become faster because it moves from a true two-chamber Parliament to a Parliament where only one chamber matters. Both are in the interests of the EU.
The Euro is literally just a mechanism for Germany to exploit the other countries in the union. If they used the the Deutsch Mark they wouldn't have such a massive export industry due to the valuation of currency.
Who the hell would vote "Yes" to that?
idiots would vote for that
Probably all those status-quo-loving "pragmatic realists" who cynically claim that making government more efficient can surely only be a good thing, while laughing at the "idiocy" of people who are against the neoliberal order. There's more of these smug technocracy fanboys than you would think because the media has been doing everything to shrink people's political imagination ( ) and replace it with "how is our GDP doing this month?".
No. I refuse to pay debt + interests. Fuck Europe and the EU. You corrupt maggots are getting rich from interests. We never needed those filthy european cunts before and never will. Only shit comes from europe
Maybe when Britain and Germany pays it's old war debts you might have a point.
it's about restructing Italy's parliament so governments can last longer than 2 weeks
as i see things: there's an economic war going on between the eu (germany) and italy renzi initially was very loyal to central europe but it looks like he tried to protect italy's economy
Can you expend on that? As I see it there is now growing a more fundamental opposition between EU and anti-EU forces, and the point of the constitution changes is to make EU forces stay in control. Some have even said that among other things the specific target here is preventing M5S from becoming a viable option in the next year's elections.
any number multiplied by zero is still zero kurwa
"We should quarantine the poor, just in case poverty is contagious" - Holla Forums
"Directly exposing wealthy economies to poor ones has no harmful effect on either, because it presents no possibilities for abuse through arbitrage. This is preferable to protecting them from direct interaction, and instead implementing specific measures to subsidize the development of poor areas without needlessly distorting the economic structure of either in undesirable ways." - Transnational capitalist
What the hell do you think we want to get out of EU for? It's not working so well for the Greece to be in the same "zone" as the Germany, is it?
The difference is Italy is one country. You could use revenues from the north to develop the south, unless it's full of greedy, short sighted bourgy who don't care about their fellow countrymen - i.e people like you.
In a charitable interpretation, I think he's referring to the opposite problem, where businesses intentionally move production to the localities with the poorest workers/least-stringent laws, and then sell the products to the most prosperous localities.
It's a nigh-omnipresent problem here in the USA, partly due to our size, but since it occurs not just at the state level, but even at the county and town level, I'd hardly be surprised if it happens in small countries like Italy, too.
You two guys got it right I guess, despite being italian I didn't really read anything from unbiased sources because all the media is shilling for the "yes". Basically italian facebook is full shilling on the yes with ads, and when I was in HS earlier this year there was a special lesson to tell about the reform, which was again liberal shilling towards the "yes". The italian marxist leninist party is for the "no", and so are most of my mates and even my parents, which means that "no" is the populist option as well (and iirc M5S supports the "no" as well)
So they are apparently really afraid of the anti-establishment M5S, but they're going to diminish their chances.
Renzi said he would not resign anyway, and PD is quite strong in both chambers Grillo might attract a lot of leftists, but tbh he is a joke and thus must be opposed Whatever happened to the scarperosse spirit? I dont think i can ever become optimistic about the left again without a good Italian movement
who believes the crook anymore? heh, better than lega or casapound for sure. also their mayor of rome virginia raggi is awesome, as well as their direct democracy project. with casaleggio out of the picture and an apt pressure on beppe from the membership this might even work, but again, who knows with those guys?
I've read somewhere their local successes actually backfired because they showed themselves to not be so competent.