You get to delete one TF2 class from every copy of TF2

qwtf = tfc > ff > breathing > tf2

scout

Pyro counters soldier and some demo loadouts as long as you can figure out that sometimes you need M2 to win.

and soldiers get so fucking shitty when you kill them with their own rockets.

Sniper has infinite skill ceiling and can dominate the game at a high skill

Heavy is a slow piece of shit with no range

Spy is terrible if you're not playing against braindead pubs unless you're good with the ambassador, in which case the same issue as the sniper

Pyro is pretty bad unless you're very skilled

You forgot scout

Then why isn't he picked in 6s? Oh wait its because anybody in the game who can aim that good plays scout because its actually useful in capping the point.

The ironic thing is Pyro is only bad in Vanilla TF2, the compression blast actually made him good and useful instead of bad for casuals

I wouldn't get rid of spy, but nerf the fuck out of his pistol to discourage assholes from using his as sniper 2.0

Same with the medic, nuke his syringe gun for fucks sake

people must be fucking shit if they don't pick sniper, unless it's a very tight map it's pretty clear anyone with skill will dominate with him

Thats why a lot of casual games with instaspawn almost always end up being Sniper duels with 6 snipers on each team. Thats when a spy or scout comes and wreks your dumb asses

I did. Whoops.

That's true but assuming they're evenly matched the soldier's primary ammo is greater than how many airblasts a pyro can do.

Revert gameplay back to '07, and balance it out from there.

I bet you're AlphaBlaster.

Who are you quoting?

Is this a joke? Have you ever played a 2fort match? There's a reason most servers limit the sniper to only 2 at a time. The only good counter to a sniper is another sniper.

If you could make your own class what would it be?
I'd create a techno-soldier with a proper submachine gun as the primary, and he could equip either a force shield or jetpack as the secondry.

In theory that's what spies are for. Problem is snipers all know that.

Engineer.

Can I trade my class delete for deleting the Dead Ringer and all hats?

This.
All the bells and whistles they added made the game such a mess.

I'd choose 2 small nerfs over everything removed.
Soldier should have lower ammo count, reload speed and splash damage, but damage on direct impact should be higher.
Sticky launcher needs to have the nerf 1 year ago to it, the one that made all the shitter sticky spammer demo mains cry that they couldn't abuse a shitty tactic.
Also, bring back detonating pipes prematurely as was shown in a old trailer for the game, it would make the gun automatically more usable.

Soldier, Demo and Scout are overpowered compared to their other classes because of their relatively high mobility.

Medic has no mobility but is still a broken game-ruining piece of shit. And it's not an accident like the imbalance of the other classes, he's overpowered on purpose because "no-one would want to play medic otherwise :3". Just don't have a fucking medic in the game then!

All of that is true, the insane mobility of those heroes is game breaking, a team of just scouts, demos and soldiers is better then a balanced team consisting of all the 9 classes.

The worst thing is, Soldiers and Demomen are only able to go so fast because of their pet Medic healing all the self-damage.

Get rid of him and suddenly Heavy and Engineer are actually useful classes.

i'd get rid of items before i got rid of whole classes

sup overwatch general

...

sorry i play assfaggots, so I keep mistaking them.

Heavy would be made even less useful if you removed Medic. He's a big, slow and easy target. With no over/heal you're all the more vulnerable to Snipers and nobody pinned to your behind makes a Spy all the more likely, not least youre still fucked for mobility against anything else save a Pyro.

Engineer, again, who the fuck cares about that? Its quickest to take out a nest with an uber but you can just about always otherwise lob bombs or rockets around corners.

Sure, dispensers become much more vital but now you've slowed the game down for both teams – heavily pushing favour towards defending sides.

Demoman since even trying to nerf the class causes autistic raging from the people stupid enough to play TF2 competitively.

So you want a nerfed Direct Hit for his primary?

For Soldier and Demo that's more a problem of map design than any inherent fault of their bomb jump, the original design behind them being Soldier would rocketjump for vertical leaps the Scout can't perform and the Demoman's omnidirectional bombjumps that're a bit harder to control and have a higher HP cost than rocketjumping, while the Scout's just a fast little turd who can scamper around nearly everywhere if he's clever. To counteract the fucking crazy mobility an effort should be made to have a trawl around your map as the slower characters, ideally even having a slow runaround as Heavy or Engineer, and see how you can set paths and lay platforms/objects so that there's only a select few places groundbound classes can't get to, while Scout can probably get there with a bit of intuition, Soldier can rocketjump up to (and probably succumb to fall damage depending on how high up his route is), and Demo can bombjump up to. Coincidentally 2fort, Sawmill, and several other core CTF maps have designs that severely restrict the mobility advantage bombjumpers have to where the skill is primarily used for vertical movement rather than omnidirectional.

>is still a broken game-ruining piece of shit.

You're supposed to target the Medic first, not the idiot he's healing; the Medic is hyper-vulnerable at all times and only really a threat if you stand still for several consecutive seconds for him to bonesaw your dumpy ass or plug you full of needles. If it's ubercharge you're complaining about that's a bit of a "gamebreaker" on purpose since it's supposed to provide the ability to break out of what would otherwise be a stalemate, or push into choke-points, and even then the Medic can still easily be isolated from his target and completely negate the whole charge by being pushed back through explosives splashdamage, the Scout's shove with Shortstop, or the Pyro's airblast. If you'd mentioned the Vaccinator I'd have more readily agreed with you, that whole idea is just hogshit in TF2 and it's a broken medigun that makes the Medic and his target a fucking hassle.

Assuming what little is left of the TF2 team does something good for once, is it possible for them to ever fix TF2 without deleting/reverting 70% of the game?

Any competent soldier/demo knows how to deal with Pyros who know how to airblast.

It could honestly be pretty easily saved; the problem is that TF2 is a dumpster for ideas and content with no real direction because of the come-and-go nature of Valve's management. The skeleton-crew working on it probably doesn't want to work on it at all, going by the fact they don't test anything they send out and what is sent out is always buggy (there is always a 5+ MB hotfix after an update, even for simple things such as updating localization files). There's also that that b4nny cocksucker was purported to have been working with Valve for Meet Your Match, and then Valve valued his input so highly that they ignored all of his suggestions and may or may not have actively scrapped a lot of optimization work done for the game.

So, what it needs is people who love the game to work on it, as well as some good programmers that can clean up the code. Either of those things happening is a one-in-a-million thing, but I don't think TF2's irreparable by a long shot. Same as any other prom-night dumpster baby, it just needs some time and attention and it'll be chugging along nicely all over again.

Yes but that would alienate the majority of the remaining fanbase who are quite happy with their hats and shit balance. The original playerbase gave up long ago apart from the hardcore competitive players and a small number of niche servers which is what necessitated F2P originally. No motive for Valve to do so.

Hell yeah, motherfucker.

I wish they'd bring the grenades from that back.

Fucking air mirvs, gas bombs and demo packs were the shit.

You know, they could probably just shut 60% of all autists up if they'd implement an additional pure mode; Standard loadouts and no cosmetics. The game needs so many things, but they'll never happen thanks to the genius project management at Valve and the 2 or 3 guys working part time on the game.

Pyro should be able to counter soldier and demo more easily and they should make him a really hard hitting and punishing counter class.

What if rocket jumping resets the burning duration? That would slow down all those rofl stompers tremendously.

Imagine the sadisitic joy. That's what playing pyro should feel like.

You've got it backwards, nigger.

Engineer.

Not at all, it makes sure that they stay on distance and don't recklessly advance when your team is in a defensive position. I mean, the pyro has the airblast, he is already a soft counter.

You'd be surprised how many players don't realize this fact.

This is doubly true when he's usually the only one guarding the Engineer, a prime target for both of those classes.

It fucking hurts how many players don't realize that fact, even purportedly good players tard the fuck out and try to kill the pocket/patient instead of going for the Medic. Christ, I don't consider myself good by any stretch of the imagination and I always make a point of it to kill the fucker in white before having a go with the guy he was latched onto.

It's definitely salvageable, and the new update is at the least moderately fun, but everything that goes into TF2 these days is so half baked that it's almost always buggy as hell or just straight broken.

There's two main problems with the game right now as a newcomer to it: The games complexity is just ridiculous now, with so many different weapons and playstyles it's stupidly difficult to pick it up for casual play. I wish I was joking, but have you ever played in a pub? Ever look at them and ask yourself "how the fuck did they get dressed this morning"? Those are the people who get confused by all the unlocks. The people who would scoff at this point are in the maybe 1-5% of players who know what the unlocks mean.

Ironically one of the harder classes to play, Scout, is probably the only class you can play at a high skill level out of the box, requiring no unlocks at all to play efficiently. Soldier and Sniper being a tied second (gunboats and jarate optionally, and melee with several good choices), and medic after that (uber/vita-saw, kritz if they know that it doesn't do extra damage to buildings, and crossbow for burst healing). Every other class requires intimate knowledge of their unlocks and play style to play at an optimal level. I've met Pyro who don't know that airblast extinguishes or spycicle exists. I've seen engineers who don't repair friendly buildings, heavies that walk everywhere revved up with the brass beast. As much as Holla Forums hates being casual, the game doesn't do enough for the casual audience to get them playing better. The game even has a tutorial that's broken. You can't complete it, because the update broke a trigger, and if you could, completing it qualifies you as an engineer main, clearly the most complex class in the game where you hit things with your wrench and have no spatial awareness. It's no wonder people are awful at this game.

Secondly, the game runs like garbage on all fronts. The skeleton crew maintaining it is floundering, the new game modes and user interface is awful, and the base engine underneath the game hasn't seen an update in years, which is weird since CSGO got all the new toys and TF2 saw none of it. In terms of game polish and feel, the graphics themselves are mostly fine, but compared to CSGO and Dota 2, those games might as well have been made by another company. Even if you go in with prior knowledge and buy weapons ahead of time, the buy in to TF2 is about the same as CS, so why not just play that? There's more support, a far bigger community, the game doesn't run like ass, and all the competitive systems work. The CS meta is diverse with niche strategies occasionally giving big payoffs and there's more room for tactical choice. The game gives all the tools you need to counter every strategy and weapon in the game right away. Compared to TF2 which even at a competitive level just looks like team deathmatch and doesn't give you the tools to perform as your class optimally straight away.

Valve needs to change their entire approach to running their game if they want to keep it viable for the existing community and the new people coming in, and it'll require realizing how the unlock system dramatically impacts the entire game, and overhauling the back end for quality of life improvements. Hell, I'd say they even need to completely overhaul how the classes are presented and played. There's unlocks that might as well just be mandatory picks.

Sniper

No. Anyways, out of all the classes, the Sniper is the one class who hasn't who doesn't have weapons designed to fight them for any class. The only thing that can counter a sniper is another sniper and it pretty much forces the enemy to play as a sniper to take out and as a result, you end up with 12 snipers on each team.
That and Snipers in general don't support the team and more interested in fighting other snipers.
The Sniper is the only class that I can think of that discourages team based work, the few times the sniper gets support based weapons (Sidney Sleeper and Jarate) they're rarely used to support the team and used as a last resort to take out a single target.

Any class that isn't Demoknight

Custom TF > TF2 = FF > QWTF > TFC
Not saying any of those are bad, just better than the others.

Soldier
Not because he's a bad class but rather because it doesn't make sense to have him in the same game as all other classes.
He's a class with the 2nd highest health pool, best burst damage and best mobility.

It doesn't make sense to have Scout when Soldier trumps his mobility with better HP.
It doesn't make sense to have Heavy when Soldier can use cover and burst damage to do the same he does but safely and faster.
It doesn't make sense to have Demo when Soldier's mobility, HP and primary are better than him.
It doesn't make sense to have Engineer when all he does is kill a soldier the first time he passes through and stales him for a few seconds the next time before he breaks your shit.
It doesn't make sense to have Snipers against a class that can close distance on open ground so easily.
It doesn't make sense to have Spy that dies to rocketjumps and only works against retards.
It doesn't make sense to have Pyro when his mobility and burst damage is a joke compared to so many other classes to the point where Soldier is a better ambushed than Pyro.
It doesn't make sense to have Medic when he can't keep up with the movement except with a specific medigun and there are health packs around anyway.

If someone made a game that revolved entirely around Soldiers, that'd be a fun game. As it stands, he breaks the balance by being this incredibly mishmash of ideas that makes many other classes redundant.
Some people like to argue that he's a jack-of-all-trades that doesn't do anything exceptionally well, just a bit of everything. I'd argue his actually a bit of a Gary Stu for the Devs because he can actually do a little bit of everything excedingly well, sometimes even better than their counterparts.

The only correct answer is Soldier.
A class that was going to be, and should have been, cut because a jack of all trades with absurd mobility and no real counters while being stupidly tough for his role has no place in a game where almost every other class is cripplingly overspecialized.

As I expected.

He's quoting OP, like a faggot.

New maps would be the only thing to add, and that's if they're centred around two teams, unlike that lame botkiller mode with the upgrades.

You're thinking in terms of absolute counters which isn't what the classes were designed for. They were created to have specific strengths and weaknesses in specific engagements dependent within different classes of environment. Yes, Pyro is able to provide some area denial, but he is outclassed outside of close ranges by Heavy, Engineer, and Demos - hell, Heavy even outclasses Pyro in terms of damage output at close-range. In open, mid-range engagements, classes like Soldiers should definitely have the upper hand given that it's their primary role. However, in enclosed areas and at close range, Pyro should have the upper, since the soldier's movement is crippled and he risks damaging himself more with splash damage. Now I say "should" but in practice that hasn't been all that true - since launch the Pyro wasn't quite good at his job and in the passing years of updates the only change was Pyro getting a bunch of secondary options for dealing with combat in open areas and longer ranges.

This is even without factoring airblast, which kind of botched that original intent behind the class and started the shift from Pyro's gameplay being focused around use of his flamethrower to use of secondary abilities and weapons (rise of puff-n-sting, melee-focused builds, etc).

That point is only true if the map favors Snipers greatly. There are plenty of counters on more well designed maps.
You're playing on shitty pubs where people don't know how to play Sniper or play against Snipers. Probably the same people that think being a demoknight is good for their team.

What's wrong with having a gun that doesn't just require landing 2 projectiles in the near vicinity of your target to kill him and even denies movement of your target?

Had the bazooka a single rocket loaded requiring re-loading after every shot, it would be the burst weapon it currently is and require decent aim to justify the damage it does.
If it did less splash damage and required people to actually aim it, it would be much more balanced compared with other guns. Shotgun's pellets don't reflect off walls and flamethrowers don't have 30 meters range, why does the bazooka have a crutch mechanism to help you kill people even when you miss?

I'll disagree here, their bomb jump was a nice ability at first that gave depth to the game but it has risen to ridiculous levels thanks to the "infinite skill ceiling".

You had Scout, a class dedicated entirely to movement that sacrificed HP and long\medium range firepower for a double-jump and increased speed.
It's entire design is literally "I'm faster than all others at the expense of health" and you had to use that speed to avoid enemy fire and get into close range where your scatter gun is amazing.

At the same time, you had the Soldier and the Demoman that can fight at longer distances than the Scout and have more HP than he has as well as burst damage.
Their entire design is "artillery". One is a cannon, the other a mortar.

Except they can actually move faster than the Scout provided they aren't noobs with their bombjump. Their mobility is indeed superior except for close range situations, where their superior firepower still gives them the upper hand. They kinda steal the spotlight from Scout because of this, you can easily have Soldiers arriving at CPs or capping Intelligence faster than a Scout, so why pick the bitchboy?

Now keep in mind that you also have the Heavy that's supposed to be the serious firepower of your team. Which he is on paper, with better DPS than anyone else but his lack of mobility combined with inability to use cover for peek-and-fire like either the Soldier and Demo can just makes him actually a worse choice for serious damage dealing.
Why pick a slow class when you can bombjump faster to your location and then still have the option of cover for safety?
A neat example here is that Heavy simply can't take down a lvl3 Sentry on his own (he needs a Medic and a few breaks). Meanwhile, a Soldier peeking and shooting can do it on his own.

Their mobility rose to ridiculous levels, they break all balance with that and self-damage is a shitty argument when you can just land on top of a medkit and go about your business.

kek
what's the matter user? Does it's passive aggresive playstyle too much for you to handle? How does it feel when those medics pop their ubers 24/7 and just shrugs off your puny rockets / stickies / meatshots / what have you like it's nothing?
You do realize that concentrated fire from different sources is it's prime weakness (ex: other teammates or a level 3 sentry) and it's other achilles heel is that it doesn't have a melee resist

this
i think the easiest way to nerf soldier is to simply increase his self-damage of his own rockets, that way if you want to rocket jump, use a gunboat not like crutch faggots who use the black box and the concheror

I like playing the demoknight on KOTH or CP maps, they suck dick on Payloads and attack / defense maps hough

Obviously Sniper, I know that would mean all the retarded ten year-olds will just move from Sniper to Spy but at least that is more managable since then they would advance instead of sitting next to spawn.

None of them.
Not even the sniper.

All mediguns have that ability now.

All mediguns give you the same movespeed of your target, but do they allow you to follow Soldier\Demo when they rocket\stickyjump?
I though at least that much was restricted to the Quickfix. It makes sense to give it to every other medigun and increase the medic's mobility, but this just goes to show their focus is on the 6v6 competitive meta, with the soldier+demo core.

Like CS, balancing depends on the map.

Only soldier can due to the shotgun being capable of manhandling the pyro. Demoman will have to sticky jump away because lolprojectilesonly. And any weapons added past the base fucking game are shit, so don't you pull that nigger knight bullshit

They did, its called Quake

Another vote for Spy here. If they disappeared I'd seriously start playing again.

dingdingdingdingding

The Demoman can literally just stickyspam the ground in front of Pyro.
"Oh but he'll reflect!" Big fucking deal, those things barelly move and they are still gonna damage the Pyro if he's too close.
The best outcome is reflecting to the sides and zigzag your way near the one-eyed nigger but you wanna know a funny coincidence?
He can fire 8 stickies and you'd need 8 reflects to get them all out of your front. Guess how much ammo is left after that? 0

This is considering bad players that still depend on stickyspam. Actual good players use the same trick back at the Pyro, they wait for the airburst and then fire a grenade between airblasts.

Even when going melee against him, Demo has more HP, especially if he chipped some of Pyro's life with a few stickies.

...

Sniper.

The most convincing proof that demo is far more OP than pyro is that I main pyro hard but can always get way more kills as demo just fucking around. Even without ever switching weapons I could get more kills with either pipe launcher or sticky launcher. Noobs just whine about Pyro because they're not used to moving while they shoot.

but pyro has a better range than nigger knight, and airblasts cancel out the charge they do, so any pyro that isn't retarded can just juggle his ass until he dies.

Pyro winning the update was a mistake.

Running into a pyro from around the corner is enough to cripple or kill you. Best case scenario, the pyro's dead and you're limping along at under 75HP as soldier (if you caught some distance between him), the usual scenario leaves you dead with the shocktroop pyro limping away at 10-20HP. If the shocktroop pyro can kill you with this minimal effort, what happens with the pyro mains if the pyro gets buffed? It already takes considerable effort to take down a pyro main 1v1, not to mention them having flareguns, having airblasts that can completely stuff an uber, and being able to send you down cliffs with almost no effort and their flames sometimes reaching up to fucking 10-20 meters. I sometimes catch fire when I kill a pyro from a safe distance for no fucking reason. Pyro doesn't need any more fucking buffs and the axtinguisher getting nerfed was the smartest decision in a long while. Pyro fills a relatively small role, sure, but it's a role that needs filling. He cannot survive for long unsupported, as with most classes barring demo and soldier.

Some classes have better staying power than others, and this is as it should be. Pyro DEFINETLY doesn't need any more of it. Adding to his staying power would make every w+m1 pyro as good or better than your average invested player, only with the Pyro having to face less effort. Whereas soldier is powerful and still within limits with a medic, pyro would be near-unstoppable on his own and downright unfair with a medic.

This next segment is directed at all you pyromains who are whining about 'balance':
What do you do when you keep getting killed as pyro in maps that don't play to your strengths? Is there an uber to stop, spies to check, groups to ambush or people to push down cliffs? No? Well what do you do when your team is getting stomped and you're getting killed as sniper or spy? Since the situation doesn't call for a pyro, the answer is simple. Like you do with any other fucking situation of this kind; CHANGE CLASS.

Continued.

To test the true might of a class, you need to think what would happen if an entire team went as one
class. An entire Soldier team would be vulnerable to airblasts, but could win easily. An entire Heavy
team could win easily, but would lose momentum if large swathes of them were to die and had to
constantly respawn due to sniper fire. An entire Engineer team would be vulnerable to spies and explosives. An entire
Spy team would be very weak, same with Snipers. Medics could win if they chained ubers, but would be
vulnerable to airblasts and sentries. Scouts would die to sentries, but would otherwise win. Demos
could win relatively easy because stickyspam. Pyro, as it stands, would face some resistance and die to
sentries.

So we have 4 classes (Soldier weak to airblasts, Demo, Scout weak to sentries, Heavy weak to snipers) that could win relatively easily and 5 (Pyro dies to sentries and demos, Medic dies to sentries and airblasts, Sniper dies to everything, Spy dies to everything, Engineer dies to spy and explosives) that would have some trouble trying to win.

Power-ranking would go best to worst.
1: Demo
2: Soldier
3: Heavy
4: Scout
5: Engineer
6: Pyro
7: Medic
8: Sniper
9: Spy

We see here that Pyro and Engineer don't fit either the top 3 or low 3.
The trouble isn't with Pyro being weak or not, but rather is he situated in the right class slot? What if, instead of assault, he was a support/defense class? Make the switch so that Demo is assault and Pyro is on defense, and all your troubles are gone. Not only is this change true to the situation (Demoknight as defense? Stickyspam as ONLY defense?), it would help set the mentality of players. Instead of seeing pyro's rushing to the front lines (How is a spy hardcounter an 'assault' tactic?), they would take on a more passive role of staying behind the body of main attackers and defending them from back-attacks.

Shitter detected.

I realized my poor choice of words after posting, since he was designed for this purpose in mind; what I meant was that a Pyro can easily walk up to you and cause damage. Where others need to aim, he can flail wildly and still catch people on fire.

doesnt matter, still wont make it not shit

...

Heavy. He is an useless fucking class. He is slow, has no feel, power, and can be killed by everything, and he cant do anything about it.

And to answer OP's question, I would rework Demo. He can gain a lot of ground as an attacker by laying down stickies and then switching to grenades. So now he has the ability to control where you move (VERY powerful ability) AND simultaneously lob grenades at you.

Here's an idea: would the Demo be considered fixed if he had to have his stickylauncher as an active weapon as a requirement to detonate his bombs?

Soldier and Demo risk damage to themselves and can easily blow themselves up (-100 HP if too close to explosion). Pyro on the other hand can save himself with a random airblast while retaining mobility.

Iron heavy here, you're fucking retarded.

Heavy is what solidifies your team. Your backbone is made of sentry and heavy. Without heavy, you have no safety. I wound up a heavy main because 6/10 Valve servers need a heavy when I join.

Pyro? Flanking? At close quarters? Expecting to live? Well shit, it's almost as if that class was designed to do that.
I get what you mean by the pyro hitting you from long distances, this is a complaint that many high-end pyros have complained about and Valve even referenced it on one of their blog posts iirc.
The Axtinguisher nerf was a horrid idea, the one other viable pyro melee being nerfed into the ground pretty much means that you're only going to find Powerjack pyros rather than mixing it up a bit. The Axtinguisher was a great weapon if you knew how to combo it well, otherwise it's penalties should put you in the shitter if you didn't.
The main problem with Pyro is that it's kited by fucking everything.
Soldiers can bait out airblasts or just stall them out since a Pyro only gets 10 at most
Demomen can spam sticks and for whatever reason can still detonate them post-reflect meaning that they can detonate them into the pyro's face with little regard to reflecting. Even pipes force the player to either airblast away or if the pyro expect to deal damage with the reflects, is forced to face away from the demoman in order to reflect due to arcing.

The pyro is a class that is, in short a fucking frankenstiens monster of mechanics and balancing and is in dire need of a complete overhaul which, I'm hoping the Pyro update will fix.

And take ammo. You can do it about 8 times if you haven't spent it yet, and doing it repeatdly ends up giving him air control back so he can glide for you.

His range with claymores is also increased, innate property of the weapon, and the shield he uses gives him resistance to flames.
I shit you not, you can puff him and keep him in the air until you run out of ammo and he'll still be alive, forcing you to pick the shotgun while he removes your head.

The best bet any Pyro has against him is to use his stickies to jump at him in close range and murder his ass with the flamethrower before he reacts as a lot of people aren't expecting that. But then again, you're gonna take a sticky up your ass to even try this technique.

Bullshit. You can literally drop 2 rockets at the Pyro's feet and he's dead. And he takes at least 3 times longer than you need to kill you with his gun.
In fact, here's how "ambushing" with Pyro goes when against Soldier\Demo. You pop from cover right in their back, start spraying. They turn around, shoot you twice with their primary and you're dead. Then they find an healthkit and go back to killing other people.

Pyro doesn't have HP to survive close confrontation against burst damage classes nor mobility to really suprise them or even actual burst damage to kill them fast unless you bring the backburner. This is why you'll kill more people with afterburn than your flametrower and why Pyro mains tell you to kill people with the shotgun, not the main gun.

Nobody is asking for more staying power, though. Flare jumps making him go higher would help. Airblasts to the ground lifting him would be neat too. Something that's actually decent mobility. And you're complaint about his gun being inconsistent in range? Yeah, flamethrower is shit. It's range depends on your ping and movement speed, it's unreliable as fuck.

Nah mate, most servers dont have Heavies at all. They are slow, dont have any kind of indirect firepower and depend on a Medic to do something worthwhile on offense or defense.

I don't think Valve is competent enough for this. Maybe they could have given Heavy a new toy and made him less reliant on Medics so he'd be more fun, but I don't think they can fix the clusterfuck that is Pyro.

Exactly my point. As soon as I join, kinda bad teams start winning and medics want my dick.

Heavy provides safe retreat options, and keeps the enemy from getting close. What's more, I topscore with tomislav ambushes all the time. A good heavy doesn't need a medic for this, per se, but it really helps.

Say, you wanna play a game?

Are you shitting us here, nigger? If airblasts are the only thing they have to fear, something that takes quite a lot of skill to pull reliably (not just once in a while) and doesn't even work when there's 2 or more soldiers firing, then they're gonna have an easy time all day long.

Meanwhile Pyros have shitty mobility, horrible long\medium range firepower and close range is gonna suck against the actually decent powerhouses. Even a Scout could run to keep distance and pepper them with a revolver, that's how bad the Pyro is.

Consider that in your "power ranking", the only classes worse than pyro aren't even supposed to actually fight. You're essentially saying that Pyro is so shit he's only better than classes that don't really fightback.

While I agree that Valve probably isn't the most competent company when it comes to this shit, however, if valve has taken FromPyroWithLove seriously enough, I can see them on their way to fixing him.
The heavy on the other hand, while I agree is a fucking boring class for people not enthralled in the class, I can only think of having a Heavy shield as being a way to alter the way the heavy plays without some major overhaul like being able to shoot down projectiles.

Go watch stickyspammers for a quick answer to your question. What do you think such a change would even accomplish when stickies are used as contact grenades or arcing rockets so you don't actually have to aim your grenades?

Think before you post. They have an higher healthpool than the pyro, and the center of explosion is gonna be near you than them. If they can't survive the blast, you sure as shit can't either.
Pyro's ambushing Soldiers have them shooting down on their feet even when they are close and killing the Pyro leaving the Soldier at low life but still alive.

I got my highest score with Heavy too, but most of the time, the Heavy is not really that useful unless you are getting a lot of support from your team. And Heavy isnt the backbone of any team, the Soldiers, Pyros, Spies and Engineers are fundamental

Sniper.

If you say so. But I'm still offering that game so I can show you what I mean.

I tell you, nothing feels more orgasmic to me than punishing demos, sollies, spies, and pyros for attempting close-range attacks.

Answering OP, its definetly Sniper. He has absolutely no place in a game where everything is an engagement from medium range or less. Poor hit detection means he can throw Jarate and kukri you for an insta kill, or with the sniper rifle.

No, I have already seen how effective can Heavy be, but its somewhat situational, it depends on how the enemy team and your team is playing.

Whichever one has the largest userbase.

If a Demo or a Soldier picks a corner and peeks to shoot, you're gonna get fucked.

It also depends on you, ya beeg seely. It takes a good heavy to be able to adapt to varied situations. And it takes a real heavy main to know when to not play him, just like any other class.

Also, Pyro's airblast fucking irks me. It has happened only a few times, but when I keep getting fucking juggled without being capable of doing anything, it seriously makes me go "The fuck?"

The thing is, when faced against anyone playing the more powerful classes which also has a brain, Heavy cant adapt to anything.

Also, Pyro's airblast fucking irks me. It has happened only a few times, but when I keep getting fucking juggled without being capable of doing anything, it seriously makes me go "The fuck?"

Do ya really believe that?

Maybe I am not a good Heavy, because I prefer playing the faster classes, but I dont think thats it, I do it to a lot of Heavies too.

Were you ever on the receiving end of an axtinguisher combo? Pyro could kill a full health Heavy with it. Way too powerful. The penalty was laughable and didn't hamper the combo one bit. Powerjack was also damned hard to stop. Every time I saw a Pyro as any class I had to retreat in fear. The only other class that put that kind of fear in me was the Heavy, since he was hard to kill. Pyros could just walk up to literally anyone and whack them in the face for almost no penalties. Strap a medic to him and you needed the support of your entire team to kill him.

In a match with a Pyro vs Soldier, it could go any way. Pyro against Demo, yeah, it is unfair and one-sided

Maybe I'm retarded, but pyros catch me in their flames all the damned time. Doesn't help that the flames can lick you at far greater distances that should be possible. It's always 50 HP from flames and 100HP if I take my explosive to the face at close range.

It usually ends with the Pyro dead and the Soldier being near death until eventually dying of afterburn. There are also situations where hitting a Pyro in the feet is not always guaranteed. But I would say that between a close range fight between the two, it could go both ways.

That's why I considered him to be a defense class instead of assault in my next post. Pyro needs a rework, but definetly not a buff.

ENGINEER

I've always hated that class. It fucks up pub games, it's the most boring character I've ever played in an FPS period, maps have to be balanced entirely around this class's existence, it's 80% of the reason why ubercharge even exists. Worst of all, it's absolute dogshit in competitive games because of higher coordination and aggression, alongside engineer taking up a bigger percentage of your team by being picked. He's almost as unfun to play against as he is to play as, except you actually have to play the game unlike him. And it got worse for a long time after the Wrangler came out.

You'd have every right to call me an idiot if I said he was too powerful, but he's a dumb one-trick pony that really doesn't need to exist at all.

You know, with all the different mains, there are going to be different people asking for different classes to be removed. There is no way to perfectly balance the game. As far as I am concerned, puff and sting is very cheap shit. And so are most melee combos, since hit detection is super fucking wonky.

Maps have to be balanced around every class' existence.
etc.
TF2's balance is as much about its maps as its classes.

DING DING DING

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I wonder if most of the "tf2 was better in 07" people even played it back then at all. The game was unbalanced, seriously lacking in maps, and a bunch of the assets were sloppy, but people act like it was the 'golden age'. It was great after they refined it, but on release it was sloppy. Around 2010 is when it started its decline. I'd say it was around 2012 or 2013 that it finally died.

Some people just prefer the game with no frills or bullshit, user. You should be able to see that.

I played a lot back then. the worst balance issue was pyro had no defence against explosive projectiles. and spycrabbing

Plenty, I was also on the end of a Spy backstab too which one shots classes too, it's almost as if to get a combo out, you had to be subtle and yet skillful, One of the things that happens when I got combo'd is that I learn to check my back, again, same shit you'd do around spies. The only difference is a spy can one shot you quickly if they're able to get around you while Pyro's you see coming and can kite them unless they're trying to do some trickstabs or something.
Both of your arguments can be applied to spies, even more so because you can't see them coming so you have to spy check everywhere.
Even then, you'd have some fag running DR + Ambassador and hugging resupply or the nearest ammo pack.

...

Conga is the new spycrab.

All the counter strike kids run ambassador.

Spies don't have the ability to set you on fire and don't disorient you with an airblast into a corner, though. Pyro could control your movement easily as you were constantly taking damage and possibly throwing off your aim, while pushing you into a corner as you watch helplessly as he prepares to oneshot you with the axe.

Spy needs to manouver himself in place and make sure that he isn't seen so he can line up a kill. He is risking a lot more than the axtinguisher pyro ever did. Also, you don't have to back away from a spy to avoid damage whereas with pyro you always have to mind your distance. A then Axtinguisher combo is DEFINETLY not harder to pull off than a backstab. Spys DR was bullshit.

What's so bad about the hats? Every time TF2 is brought up anons complain about them.

i have not heard that game in a long time
isn't it like a source port of tfc?

Oh boy…

Protip, the flare gun does ~50% of a WE WUZ KNIGHT N SHIT's health, and it's pretty easy to hit them after airblast, have to be a good shot though.

Hats did nothing wrong, it's the furfags and faggots that are both bad at the game and have no sense of style that's the problem

Spy or sniper.

TL;DR to this argument
- Messes up silhouettes despite it never affecting body silhouettes
- Game is now more focused on trading than playing meanwhile trade servers and valve servers are still a thing
- Unusual effects lag the game because everyone has an unusual and it's totally not the shit like 50 rockets that cause you to lag
- It bloats the game meanwhile the hat information is stored on Valves servers and not your computer.
- People have no fashion sense and make garish bright green scouts, which I agree with.

Delete all classes except spy.

Heavy.

All other classes offer at least some kind of interesting addition to the gameplay, but Heavy is just boring to play and annoying to play against.

Movement is the best part of the game, yet he is just a slow fat piece of shit. And minigun aim takes no skill.

Nothing really, valve just stopped caring about the artstyle and pumped endless amounts of random cosmetics into the game, mostly promo items for steam games. Visually the game has become quite ridiculous.

I guess most people are just sour about the lack of gameplay updates. Most non-stock weapons are gimmicks and are barely balanced. The only good alternative weapons are the first and second generation ones, because valve still gave a fuck back then. All other weapons were nerfed and pushed aside.

I don't think I've ever been killed by just the splash-damage from two rockets, though I've been hurt pretty badly as Scout through such methods. I think you're overestimating the power behind splash damage a smidge, albeit impaired/nonexistant mobility if a Soldier really knows what they're doing with rockets is frustrating.

I wouldn't call splash damage a crutch any more than I'd call shotgun spread a crutch or the fact you need to charge a sniper rifle shot for maximum effectiveness a crutch. You missed or just barely whiffed and the rocket hits the floor, but it's a fucking bomb so it has splash-damage. Been like that since the Quake days.

Hence that it's the map design at fault and not necessarily the actual bomb-jumping. On maps like 2fort that have indoor bases separated in the middle by a wide-open battleground, as well as similar maps with spaces that're enclosed or have sparse platforms from which to rocket/bomb from or against, the actual mobility you have at hand is severely hampered by the design of the map. I've seen a few chronic crouchjumping soldiers piss and moan and try to get the map changed to something more advantageous to rocketjumping because they couldn't leap around the fucking map within six seconds on 2fort.

I know full well what the Vaccinator's for and how to handle it but that doesn't make it any less fucking frustrating to deal with, especially if the Medic knows what he's doing and cycles around resistances regularly. There's melee that the Medic simply can't counter but unless you're approaching from behind the patient's more than likely gonna notice your dumpy ass waddling towards them with your melee out. Not helping is that laser weaponry is no longer typeless (they deal bullet-type damage now) since Valve in its infinite wisdom decided things shouldn't be able to skirt around the Vaccinator's gimmick entirely, but there again they also decided the Righteous Bison's multi-hits that made it an OK shotgun sidegrade were actually a bug and now it's been severely nerfed.

Most are fucking ugly and don't fit the character they were created for in visual design or personality. Alarming trend towards making hats all-class that don't need to be.

...

Well, if ever there were a case that Walker's not involved with the game's development anymore.

Nigger you have 0 idea of what you're talking about
or you played engy as stock, which is very boring to play as

Doesn't seem to work with me though damn lag compensation

Current year demo is too stupid to use real grenades, see Ullapool caber

Medic, Health Pack Pickup master race.

Demoman because I hate niggers especially in the porn

That's how it was when the backburner first came out, you remember?
Those disgusting 40-something killstreaks on 1 life good lord
you could just run through a team from behind and kill each one before the next one knew what was happening, then loop around with your speed and do it orver and over and over, it felt so GOOD

someone's blind

I'd delete a different class on every copy just for the heck of it. Instead of people never playing a class they'll all collectively go 3000% full insane at valve