What is marxism's take on the paranormal?

What is marxism's take on the paranormal?

I'm curious since for such a broad worldview the paranormal is never mentioned.

Other urls found in this thread:

books.google.com/books?id=Y9yBAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=marx paranormal&source=bl&ots=oj6AMgGXpY&sig=IIbxLx_VFUJmIzdTjATNLit0WS4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4xOidsbLQAhUprVQKHYBtBpoQ6AEIJzAB#v=onepage&q=marx paranormal&f=false
hermetic.com/crowley/aa/Raja Yoga by Swami Vivekananda.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=7nuTiCzG82A
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrozavodsk_phenomenon

Literally spooky

"Belief in the paranormal is retarded"

-Karl Marx

Not really a Marxist view, but my take on it is that its real, though its effect on human society is mostly limited to some cultural spheres.

This book "Paranormal Investigations" by EH Walter seems to have Karl Marx revived from the grave.

books.google.com/books?id=Y9yBAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=marx paranormal&source=bl&ots=oj6AMgGXpY&sig=IIbxLx_VFUJmIzdTjATNLit0WS4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4xOidsbLQAhUprVQKHYBtBpoQ6AEIJzAB#v=onepage&q=marx paranormal&f=false

"Marx sniffed"

What I don't like about marxism is that it rejects that which it doesn't occupy itself with.


I'm also puzzled with how it interacts with us, from what I've observed a paranormal event is often like the butterfly that causes a storm. An infraction in our reality that can not understood through the "inside".

Marx doesn't seem like a soul that is ready to cross over.

You must remember that 'marxism' is a means of analyzing class society. In this way it can be applied to many many things, 'marxist geography,' 'marxist literary criticism,' 'marxist archeology' and all this other stuff. But all of these are generally either: humanities, social sciences or fine arts. All of these things can have qualities in how closely they are connected to society and thus can benefit in their interpretations with marxist analysis of class society. Paranormal stuff doesn't really have a proper academic discipline nor does it really have the same connection with society that these disciplines that marxists have utilise. Yes it perhaps does develop through stories in history and such but that's just anthropology and history, not paranormal stuff.

t. carl sagan, bill nye, neil tyson, james randi

EACH SOUL IS POTENTIALLY DIVINE.
THE GOAL IS TO MANIFEST THIS DIVINE
WITHIN, BY CONTROLLING NATURE, EXTERNAL
AND INTERNAL.
DO THIS EITHER BY WORK, OR WORSHIP, OR
OR MORE, OR ALL OF THESE—AND BE FREE.
THIS IS THE WHOLE OF RELIGION.
DOCTRINES, OR DOGMAS, OR RITUALS, OR
BOOKS, OR TEMPLES, OR FORMS, ARE BUT
SECONDARY DETAILS.

hermetic.com/crowley/aa/Raja Yoga by Swami Vivekananda.pdf

Define "paranormal".

If it's "as of yet undiscovered laws of nature", then DiaMat does not reject it.

On the other hand, if it's the idea that human thought can somehow directly alter the world by itself, without reliance on anything, then - yes. Marxism (via DiaMat) rejects such wishful thinking.


Marxism consists out of 3 components, one of those, DiaMat is used as a scientific method - which it technically is - to distinguish between reliable thinking and sloppy (magic) thinking.

And DiaMat could be applied to any phenomena - be it class society or chemical processes.

Marx was a materialist. That means he didn't believe in the paranormal or supernatural.

SINCE the dawn of history, various extraordinary phenomena
have been recorded as happening amongst human beings.
Witnesses are not wanting in modern times to attest the fact
of such events, even in societies living under the full blaze of
modern science. The vast mass of such evidence is
unreliable, as coming from ignorant, superstitious, or
fraudulent persons. In many instances the so-called miracles
are imitations. But what do they imitate? It is not the sign
of a candid and scientific mind to throw overboard anything
without proper investigation. Surface scientists, unable to
explain the various extraordinary mental phenomena, strive
to ignore their very existence. They are, therefore, more
culpable than those who think that their prayers are answered
by a being, or beings, above the clouds, or than those who
believe that their petitions will make such beings change the
course of the universe. The latter have the excuse of
ignorance, or at least of a false system of education in their
childhood, which has taught them to depend upon such
beings for help, and this dependence has no become a part of
their degenerate nature. The former have no such excuse.
For thousands of years such phenomena have been
investigated, studied, and generalised, the whole ground of
the religious faculty of man has been analysed, and the
practical result is the science of Raja Yoga. Raja Yoga does
not, after the unpardonable manner of some modern
scientists, deny the existence of facts which are very difficult
to explain; on the other hand, it gently, yet in no uncertain
terms, tells the superstitious that miracles and answers to
prayers, and powers of faith, though true as facts, are not rendered comprehensible through the superstitious
explanation of attributing them to the agency of a being, or
beings, above the clouds. It declares to mankind that each
being is only a conduit for the infinite ocean of knowledge
and power that lies behind. It teaches that desires and wants
are in man, that the power of supply is also in man; and that
wherever and whenever a desire, a want, a prayer, has been
fulfilled, it was out of this infinite magazine that the supply
came, and not from any supernatural being. The idea of
supernatural beings may rouse to a certain extent the power
of action in man, but it also brings spiritual decay. It brings
dependence; it brings fear; it brings superstition. It
degenerates into a horrible belief in the natural weakness of
man. There is no supernatural, says the Yogi, but there are in
nature gross manifestations and subtle manifestations. The
subtle are the causes, the gross the effects. The gross can be
easily perceived by the senses; not so the subtle. The
practice of Raja Yoga will lead to the acquisition of the more
subtle perceptions.

well thought, my friend

youtube.com/watch?v=7nuTiCzG82A

If you mean that it's real in the sense that it's a real social construct that affects human behavior, like religion, then yes, it's real. If you literally think the "paranormal" is real then: wtf happened to scientific socialism?

It's fucking stupid. You don't have to be a positivist to see that.

I see, whatever analysis marxism would have of the paranormal would be historical, as how it emerges from class society and it's conditions.

But would this mean then, that the paranormal can only be taken as purely instrumental, without consideration of the possibility that the forces, spirits and unknowns that are classified as the paranormal have an existence outside of the instrumentality of peoples conception of them?


What is your reason for posting this?

Human observation can, as the double-slit experiment shows.

I can't really give you a dictionary definition of the paranormal because there isn't a satisfactory one, I would define it as; occurrences, entities and things that are seen as magical, impossible and defying reality by contemporary scientific leaning common sense.

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stale memes are Not An Argument

That's not what it shows.

nor is "it's fucking stupid"

If it is observable phenomena, than DiaMat does not reject it. It might reject certain interpretations of such events (or any other).

For example, worshipping in church and then winning lottery does not prove God's existence.

fpbp

"Supernatural" and "paranormal" are nonsense concepts. If it exists, it is a "normal" part of nature. If it's not understood by humans, it's just something we don't understand.

Spreading knowledge. Take it or leave it at your own gain or loss.

Elaborate.


Would this include spirits and energies that are observable, but not through the scientific method?

I'm sure there is more to it, and i'm not familiar with raja yoga, but those are just bombastic statements.

And a bunch of random and disconnect personal antidotes aren't either. Especially when it's quite clear that the human mind can trick itself.

Ignore the Stalinist trip in this thread, Stalinism philosophically speaking

society.All we have to do here in order to pass from the “lowest” to the “highest” is to
displace this difference between the universal and the particular into the particular itself: “dialectical
materialism” provides another view on humanity itself, different from historical materialism

is that of parallax; they are substantially the same, the shift from the one to the
other is purely a shift of perspective

Stalinism philosophically speaking thinks that you can gain an understanding of humanity and society by equating an direct link to nature and the natural sciences in an positivist fashion, hence Stalinist DiaMat being an "scientific" understanding of society

but unlike the natural sciences and nature humans (and human society) are not mere objects but also active subjects who posses consciousness.

ban stalinist tripfag when?

Stop taking him seriously

The only paranormal i'm interested with is the UFO phenomenon.
Which USSR was very interested as well and it's an established fact that they investigated it.

Bad formatting, I'll just post a screenshot of the quote instead

indeed. thankfully there's a lot more to it than just personal anecdotes

I'm not dealing with quantum physics on Fridays. I'm neither coherent enough, nor drunk enough to attempt it.

Scientific method is about interpretation. It can't observe anything by itself.

If you see something that looks like ghost - you are seeing it with your eyes (or brain), not scientific method. Nor does scientific method tell you to close your eyes and start singing in a loud voice. It simply tells you that it does not necessarily mean that your late aunt came to visit you. Maybe someone is messing with you, or you had one drink too many.

Yeah. I'm not going to make any attempts at deciphering it.

ONLY THETANS ARE REAL

And maybe the loch ness monster, but that's it. Thetans and loch ness. Nothing else is real. Not even you.

Marx writes about religion but not the paranormal because he is concerned with ideological superstructures, he has no time for subcultures.

are you a thetan? no? are you the loch ness monster? no? THEN STOP WRITING!

YOU ARE NOT REAL

Why would he write about the paranormal? It wasn't a mainstream subject during his time.

Only one ghost is real and it's Spectre of Communism.

Technically, ideas about divine influence on history was quite common during 19th century. Which is why Marx needed Materialism.

fucking loch ness monster detected

shoo, go away

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It's a Zizek quote dumbass, you could of just easily googled it anyways

Tell me, since when did Marx & Engels ever speak of "Dialectical Materialism" (a term which they never used) to be founded on the "Scientific Method" anyways? When Marx & Engels talk about Science (Wissenschaft) they are under the influence of German Idealism AND NOT the natural sciences in particular

The foo fighters are very well documented and pose interesting questions about the goals of alien presence, I think they are a deliberate show of force, for if they have the technology to travel light years away, I'd assume they would also have invisibility technology. I also read somewhere that UFO's deactivated nuclear weapons in the soviet union, do you know more about that?


I assume you mean anecdotes. Those anecdotes aren't random, nor are they disconnected, often experienced by multiple people at the same time and place. This outright denial of things observed by millions without any mental disorder and those that cannot be explained through hallucinations shows the faith in disbelief of scientism, here it fabricates explanations that don't even adhere to the standards they set for the target of their disbelief.


I don't understand what highest and lowest signify in that quote.


This is as much as I meant, with incorrect terminology.

Yes in 1982, in Ukraine more precisely. Apparently a disc shaped UFO hovered over a military base and suddenly the missils activated into lauching mode, and then stopped after a couple of seconds. The people which talked about it were former military staff after 1991. So it is what it is.

But the best one is this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrozavodsk_phenomenon

True. I don't really care to debate or integrate with or into your clique but just felt like dropping a little info about the paranormal as that seemed to be the topic of this thread. I could take time writing yall a long heart felt message or I could just point you to this body of text which is the preface to the linked .pdf>>1063553

I think it's a good base explanation of supernatural/spiritual phenomenon as described by the spiritual sciences developed in India for 100s-1000s of years. This particular book is written for a western audience by a Swami from India by the name of Vivekananda in the year 1899 so it's not written in a new-agey woo woo type format which I imagine yall would find less offensive.

The book itself is mostly a primer for a Western audience and then a step by step translation and explanation of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali which were written in 400 CE.

I'm sure you would find a lot of the answers to a lot of the questions you have regarding the paranormal.

It doesn't exist. There's no evidence for it, and if you did find evidence, we would be able to study it like any other natural phenomenon, making it natural and not supernatural. The concept of the supernatural is logically unsound.

Okay, clearly you don't into modern physics. The double slit experiment doesn't show that human observation causes the wave to collapse. It is an illustration of the observer effect. In subatomic systems, you have to use smaller particles or fields in order to have observations. However, these methods invariable affect that which you are observing. Think of it like poking something.

The double slit experiment does not show that the conscious mind somehow affects the experiment. It does however show that photons have wave-particle duality. This is because sub-atomic particles in a way are more like waves of energy in a rope. You can see the bump, but the whole thing is just a cloud where a particle could exist.

Listen, negro, I may have forgotten most of this shit, but I still know that you haven't even taken a single semester. You need to read more physics and stop thinking that muh supernatural is a thing.

Has anyone here read pic related? Its a bunch of case studies on esp, telepathy and related things.

I doubt that book has any scientific rigor.

Today's Marxists might not be interested in the paranormal, but the Soviets certainly were. Back in the 60's, Dr. Leonid L. Vasil'ev was the head of physiology at Leningrad University and he started a parapsychology lab, where a great deal of research into ESP, telepathy, etc. was done. In fact, the Soviets were at the forefront of parapsychological research back then. These days, barely any parapsychological research is done, at least in a university setting. Also, Russia's space program had its origins in Cosmism, which itself was influenced by paranormal and occult undercurrents.

The people who put the anthology together tried to weed out cases of fraud. "Mediums" were deliberately excluded on the grounds that while some were obviously charlatans, others might have some ability but would also resort to fraudulent displays for an audience or something like that. Its been a while since I read the book, and I am fucking horrible at explaining things.

The CIA had interest in shit like that too. They stopped because they saw it was bullshit.

I don't believe for a second that the intelligence community in the US (or in Russia for that matter) has ceased research into what could be deemed as being tangentially related to the field of parapsychology.

Why not?

Muh Weird Wars. Sometimes I watch things like Stargate SG-1 and Stranger Things and I wonder how much of it is stuff that can never really be declassified and made public knowledge unless the thing is fictionallized?

Look, if shit like that actually worked, psychics would rule the world, or we would see rouge espers and shit doing crazy shit. We don't see this because it isn't true.

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Oh i wish i had saved satanchans ramblings about telepathic jews right now

Yeah.

I have.

btfo

Okay, can you provide this evidence to others?

What is evidence?

Facts that support your claim. Better yet, if you know how shit works, make a prediction, and we'll test it. If it works out after repeated attempts to falsify, then we can be reasonably sure you found out something the rest of us don't know.

What are facts?

An indisputable piece of information.

What if the manifold oppressions humanity languishes under function as a barrier of some sort between people and macro-pk abilities(I've had entirely too many moments where someone else has said a thing I was about to say, word for word, in the same context I had intended to use it to dismiss ESP. Its almost as if the individuals spoken to had either (probably)un-knowingly read the part of my mind where sentences were forming, or I had unknowingly dropped the thoughts into their heads).

Until you can find evidence of this, there is no reason to to think that is the case.

Don't know how relevant it is, but I always use Stirner as a reason The technocracy in Old World of Darkness does it's pogroms against"Reality Deviants"

As for my on take on the paranormal, I see it as suspect until proven but possible. If there is paranormal activity on earth it'll be a whole new field of science once it's found.

Predictive power is evidence.

2spooky4me