Free Market:

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kek

Except for property rights which are enforced by private not-cops-security-army.

And that is only assuming that these "security forces" will only be used to enforce property right that are contractually agreed upon, for some magical reason.

Oh, and then there's the fact that if you completely suppress the working class from organising, the ruling class will use its wealth to acquire more wealth, slowly taking away the last bits of property of the masses and concentrating it into the few, which forces the masses to sell themselves into conditions of peasantry, working for little more than food and housing while everything still belongs to the lord capitalist.

If you want to set up undemocratic state wide institutions to recognize property rights then fine, but you aren't an anarchist.

Right, the establishment goes on and on about why the workers should slaughter them and redistribute their wealth.

Kek, give me a break you idiot.

The establishment is unapologetically right wing on every level.

literally how

What's stopping you from just joining up the property of all your members/finding some abandoned territory to make it all owned by the collective of all of you and doing your socialism there?

Oh right, nothing.

I would show you how it's done, but it jus turns out that the goverments on this planet are able to stop 100% of all of your attempts … as well as YOUR attempts as I have noticed.

Why not join up? :3

Are you kidding me? Redistribution of wealth is one of the most widely used terms in political discussion in my country (Germany).

Everyone from Die Linke to Merkel uses that term to justify their policy.

Not having property
Property rights. Not sure if you read the memo, but almost all of the planet is owned by someone already. Also, I live in europe, so within walking distance (I am too poor to affort a car) there is nothing "abandoned". Even then, abandoned property is still someone's property, even if they are not currently there.

Quads of truth

Property rights are violently enforced through state authority. Private property limits the "freedom" of the majority of people on the planet by enforcing artificial barriers which prevent people from attaining true self-realization and foisting the imposition of wage labor onto them.

Ancaps and socialist have no reason to work together. Even after the state is overthrown socialist still have to try and seize the means, while porky can use private armies to murder union workers with no fear of repercussion just like they used to do when the state was weak.

State welfare is nothing, in fact, it was invent by conservatives to win over votes and make communists look bad. Welfare is basically free hand outs, without a government funding BASIC human needs, you would have mass revolts every week. Everything the government does is anti-free market and designed to moderate the working class, government has always been a negotiation between the workers and the people who've privatized virtually everything.

Welfare is a conservative product. Monarchs and churches did the same thing, religion and hand-outs were used to keep peasants from revolting.

Real redistribution of wealth would require redistributing the means of production to the proletariat.

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ooo nice webm

Also just to be clear, we have a german ancap here now?

Germany truly is the most retarded place in europe.

then just call it non-property or the property of socialism inc

I don't care, you dingus.

that argument again

okay would you restrict me from sleeping in your bed?

So you want to be thieves, huh? Yeah, that shit WILL BE SHUT DOWN IMMIDEATLY.
You are forcing my hand here, user.

You are right, they are a handout. But we have to abolish it.

It creates incredibly tension, you can just see its effects in the current welfare migrant crisis.

You wouldnt have to worry about "racism" if you abolished welfare and did it privately.

Is that from prager uni?

Btw a real democracy would allow you to opt out. A marriage is pretty rapey, if the wife isn't allowed to leave or not able to choose to not have sex this sunday.

But that would violate your precious NAP
So basically you finally admit your system does not work, there is no social mobility, but you just dont care and lie to try and convince people to make you their dictator?

What is it with ancaps and shitty false equivalences?

No, Democracy at Work, right there at the beginning.

What are you implying? I don't see any option to opt out of capitalism.

mate, there is nothing stopping you from just doing your own socialist commune in an ancap society

you are literally bitching about not being provided with thousands of luxury houses in that enviroment

go somewhere, claim some unused piece of land or the ruins of a city idk and do your own thing

you just want to be handed an entire city, including its population

Nonono, you are going to start from scratch or be happy with a disjointed commune that consists solely of the property of its members, but you don't get to steal from others.

You cant defend a system that is fundamentally unsound so they must resort to lying.

Ok so abolish roads, public schooling, food stamps, cheaper housing, minimum wage, healthcare access etc etc.

Somehow the free market fairy will make sure 100% of the population gets this stuff at a reasonable price.

Yeah, there's a reason even most conservative economists aren't ancaps, what you just said is retarded.

It's probably the only thing keeping Capitalism afloat, if the above things weren't all guaranteed, you would have some hellish revolts. FDR knew this, conservatives knew this, everyone knows this. The Nordic states Americans drool over all have massive state intervention, they are not ran by free market fundamentalists.

Right, let's see how brown people will react when the white people own everything and they don't have a cardboard box to sleep in……..yep, won't be too pretty.

Mate. There is litterally no way I can acquire land. There are no "unused" pieces of land within my entire country, all of it is owned by someone and used. The bourgoiesie, when no longer forced to pay minimum wage, will pay as little as they can. They will also never sell their houses, because owning houses is basically printing free money from rent.

There is litterally, withing every concievable ancap scenario, a way for me to aquire property within my lifetime.

Also, I am not interested in playing your silly little games.
Watch me.

muh meme argument

Prussia was on the first states to institute a public schooling program.

Little know fact: Voluntary free market grammar schools functioned perfectly, but of course the state had to come in and take direct control.

Everyone who says stuff about muh schools and doesn't know about prussian grammar schools is uninformed.

just rent lmao

is a meme and is debunked

regulating that people can't accept a job unless they get paid so and so, just results in fewer potential job matches, it doesn't make workers richer

you mean the old sucking on the thighs of the young and drinking their blood, right?

well duh, we obviously dont live in a free society yet, bruh

I wouldn't do that if I were you.

How can something that hasn't been tried devolve into "economic authoritarianism?"
What does "economic authoritarianism" even mean? Having a few people at the top make the decisions that affect everyone else? Sounds a lot like capitalism

Sorry but Reals > Feels

Literally when? Name one time. Keep in mind socialism =/= big gubbermint & high taxes

How can you have private property rights without some sort of structure of organized violence to enforce them?

Private property =/= personal property

It's not intentional, it's just that their ideology doesn't have the capacity to make a distinction between a toothbrush and a toothbrush factory. Everything is private property to them.

What are you going to do? Write me a strongly worded letter in german?

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No, it actually is goverment.

Well obviously they don't follow your advice, but they use your talking points and even sometimes direct support (look at chomskys support for venezuela).

That's literally what I meant!!!

Interesting question, but that is for another time. I prefer to discuss that with people who already agree with the premise that it's a moral system though, because then we can talk about strategy and not be distracted by constantly having to justify our philosophy.

Universalization, mate

if the arugment "unjustly restricting people from using property" is a valid argument, then it also applies to personal property and even your virgin butthole

you can't just without good reason say that an argument is valid for one situation, but not others

arguments have to be universal

I am giving you a stern talking in German and hug you to resolve emotinal issues that led you to the path of socialism.

Sorry, I dont like germans.

I am showing you the virtue of consent, by not asking for your consent when hugging you.

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Unfortunately for anclaps, there's a world outside of the West where there's little to nothing in the way of minimum wage, and people aren't paid big huge wages like ayncrap theory suggests, but rather shit wages that stay shit wages. If you got rid of the minimum wage, what you'd have is an immediate race to the bottom where companies would all race to replace their current workers with workers that will work for the lowest wages they can get away with.

This is because, in capitalism, a workers' labor power is sold to the employer in a commodity form. There's no reason to pay more for a commodity than you have to, and the less you pay for commodities used in your productive process, the greater the superprofits you make.

Ahahaha, it's a meme argument because you know they can't be built right without a state.

Accessiblity > quality

Quality is just a right wing meme to justify jacking up the prices and making someone else rich. You don't have to give schooling to a few jews to get someone a good education.

Right, that's why 95% of the population is employed and we still have a relatively high minimum wage.

kekity kek kek kek

Regardless of how you think it works, a free market would fuck everyone beyond belief. Maybe we shouldn't privatize a universally needed service in a civilized society, that sounds kind of retarded and inefficient don't you think?

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Frankly, I'm all for ancaps taking power and implementing their policies. You know why? Because it would fucking destroy capitalism.

You're right, we're not for a moral system - Marx, in fact, didn't talk shit about morality following his epistemological break, because this shit has nothing to do with morality. All he had to do, in fact, was adequately describe the capitalist system and let people come to their own conclusions as to the proper course of action, whether on grounds of morality or self-interest.

The free market will never bring about prosperity. This is a material fact - the institutions that define capitalism will invariably lead to accumulation of capital in the hands of a very few due to the nature of profit, leading to crisis and collapse due to the change in the organic composition of capital. Capitalism is a failure. Yes, at one time it allowed for rapid economic growth. This is known. However, this day will never come again, not unless you destroy shitloads of capital so we can start the whole thing over again (which would fucking wasteful). You can pine for the glory days all you want, but they'll never come again, and past that point, the system's contradictions will just lead to collapse.

You know why we have capitalism right now? i.e. private property, wage labour, exploitation and so on? Because of fucking state intervention. You literally cannot have these basic facets of the capitalist system without some outside intervener making sure to come in and set things right whenever things fuck themselves into oblivion and the system falls apart. They lead to failure on a systemic scale.

Now, without this regulator there, everything would fall apart. I'm good with that, I'm for that. Except it'll never happen - the ruling class, capital, they're all for neoliberalism, because that's how you keep capitalism alive in this day and age. And the only way they'll allow ancapism is if they're all fucking dead, in which case all the people with brains in their heads will be building socialism while you go around saying that we should do the equivalent of bringing back the Bourbons.

Legitimate non-Stalin socialism has indeed never been tried. As it happens, there's still hope for it. The shit you want, however, is being tried as we speak, and it's failing as we speak. In fact, we had to put it on life support, but apparently you're against that. Frankly, it was ill-fated and malformed to begin with. It's about time to take it out behind the shed. Or we can do it your way and take it off neoliberalism - it's the same fucking thing.

Face it, Capitalism is trash without massive state intervention.

not ideology

strategy

and I would be happy to do that, but you would just talkt to me about ideology, not strategy anyway

petty tbh

Yup, you are right. There was never such a thing as a private road.

Also never has the tragedy of commons been disproved by examples of lighthouses being built without goverment for example. Nope never ever.

It was incredibly cheap. Super cheap.

Typically in a western country now only half of the population works, maybe even a bit less than half.

if you are not able to make someone a profit at the end of the day and he can't reduce your pay, then you are fired

Then why has history shown time and time again how awesome the free market is?

Good, you admit it!

I feel similar, but not malicious about socialism.

Yeah. Let me just prop at that stock market booty and then complain that rich are getting richer … because of their stocks … btw I am totally not a hypocrite, I am just the mainstream media reporting. :D

Spooky.

The argument against private property (not an exclusive relationship of occupancy and/or use between a person and object, but a relationship that allows one person to benefit from the labour power of another) is that it goes against the personal interests of a shitload of people, including, in fact, the people who benefit from private property in the short term, in most cases, though of course they probably don't know it.

It's not in the vast majority's interest for your toothbrush to be taken away.

AYOO, let me just completly drop that argument and talk about something different, white boy.

Me and my rapey friends are incredibly horny from no fap and want to use your butt for relief tbh and vote for the usage of your butt in the upcoming election.

Capitalism and the state go hand-in-hand my dude.

Okay I guess that does count as an example but Chomsky is an intellectually dishonest asshat who defended Pol Pot and no one on this board takes him seriously.

In other words, "I don't know how my ideology would actually work in real life yet." Gotcha.

So there's no fundamental difference between telling someone "you can't sleep in this empty lot" and "you can't fondle my butthole?"

That's not what I'm saying. My point is socialists make a distinction between private and personal property, and understanding this distinction is crucial to understanding any flavor of socialism. Abolishing private property doesn't mean stealing your car or collectivizing your boipussy.

It's not in the vast majority of people's interest to live in a society where one ordinary person is randomly raped on the basis of an election. As a matter of fact, everyone who would be involved would probably be against the institution because they do not want it to be possible for them or their friends and family to be raped on this basis.

On the other hand, the vast majority of us will never benefit from the institution of private property, nor will the owners.

Morality is a spook. I thought you people were supposed to be all about that, enlightened self-interest and whatnot?

I know, that is why I am advocating for the raping of you.

We have already established that you have no natural rights to prevent rape. It's literally just me and my ability to either sway the masses or just might makes right.

Anarcho-capitalism and the state go hand in hand????

Oh really? That is interesting, I thought you guys loved him.

He still has a lot of supporters outside of this child rape bestiality porn sharing site though.

Yes in relation to "prevent someone from using property". You have to make an argument for the exclusion of rape and usage of personal property.

if you just use that argument in a void, then you have to be ready for questions like this

Bitch, are you really just going to ignore all of the horrendous atrocities and failures Capitalism has produced? Have the intelligence to look at the good and the bad holy shit. Capitalism is not a monolith of perfection, it has critical flaws and history has shown that. Everything you bitch about, we've tried, the problem is not the government, the problem is the entire system.

Nuance, I said built right.

*citation needed* The commonly accepted number is 95% of people in search of work are working.

Right this is why we have the minimum wage, if there's a problem with the labor, you have to work it out or hire someone else. Either way, someone gets paid a livable income. This is the game we have to play to stay afloat in your shitty system.

Also, the "awesome" parts of the free market you glorify is normally propped up by massive state intervention. kys

How does it feel to be a scared little bitch and a slave to the spirits?

Why is it in my interest for you to be able to decide, on an arbitrary basis, who sleeps in an empty lot? How is this even remotely similar to being raped? Are you a pink-haired landwhale?

holy shit, I think you convinced me, I am a commie now

where are the groupies? where do we form our commune? Anyone up for sexual liberation too?

fixed that for you

I am a dominant bisexual. Literally no one is safe from me tbh.

We need morality to restrict the greek god Übermensch that I am or I would make you all my bitches.

As if. People would still stop you from doing so through force because there's no need for Kantian categorical imperatives in order to prevent rape, murder and deprivation. And anyway, you're probably smart enough deep down to realize that there are other reasons not to rape besides spooks or people being ready to beat you up for it, unless you're a complete psychopath.

Got pics?

At least you are able to keep your philosophy and your rape kink seperate.

yup, pic related is me

I can steal the souls of commies. They nourish me.

There's no such thing as a free market

Damn, you look like you have a bad photoshop filter on your face. You should get that checked out.

THICC!

I better minimize that pic again, I wasn't planning on touching myself today, but I felt something popping in my pants. Why do you do this to me?

How about this marxists.org/history/capitalism/white-book-capitalism/, because Capitalist are so eager to get into numbers games it's only fair we do the same.

they are a lot guiltier than ML's

but if you insist

62 posts…damn, you give corruption lovers way too much credit.

death to all markets

This anarcho-capitalism is the new form of classcuckery. As opposed to the divine right of kings where the ruling class was seen as divine today the anarcho-capitalists elevate the ruling class by superstitiously pretending they make their wealth through "free enterprise", the "free market" and free and voluntary actions completely ignoring their actual authoritarianism and exploitiveness. Its a religion.

Erhard's reform and standing up to the social democrats and the military goverment), USA (the founding fathers in their, now failed, experiment for creating a free society),

Germany and the USA are both Western imperialist powers - they gain their relative wealth from the exploitation of the resources and cheap labour of the third world.

The imperialist countries exploit the third world for a profit. When there are labour movements that threaten the profits of the exploiters in the imperialist countries they export their labour to third world countries like India or they import migrant labourers from the third world to work for cheap. In this effort, they are helped by the comprador bourgeoisie in the exploited countries - the comprador bourgeoisie is a local bourgeoisie that gets some of the profits of exploitation of the exploitation of the poor majority of the exploited country. This is the situation in India today the country continues to be exploited by foreign corporations and multinationals and a small comprador bourgeoisie makes all the money well most of the country is in poverty and indeed there is considerable poverty in India.

Please explain how a country is supposed to resist imperialism in this global context without the "authoritarianism" which you apparently decry. Consider all of the policies of imperialism throughout the cold war and continuing to this day. Imperialism targets countries with suppression, sabotage, false flags, bombing raids, and general destruction.

I agree with the tendency amongst posters here to avoid moral questions because of subjectivity. Nonetheless, please explain why the abolition of all exploitation - in a word communism - is not a moral system according to you.

Communists are not liberals, fool. The establishment never uses our talking points.

what?

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You, communes have been made in allmost all Western countries. They don't last because they suck

Communes which interacted with and within a state using money and functioning "next to" different class based systems. Therefore not communism.

Yeah, Trump and Obama came together to say kill the bourgeoisie.

OP your thread is all over the place, and still no proof of communism from whatever. Even "free" market is already yielding easily to "Authoritarianism" meme, for the mere fact of its need for total trade and the econo-mystification of "equality" and rights.

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Lets say you own a forest (or rather claim ownership of it. One day, 482 people start building houses in the forest and start cutting down wood for it. What will you do in an ancap society?

Its painful for me to realize just how stupid you are OP

I am afarid that even you cant realize how stupid you are

Kek
You are fucking dumb

Feudalism: allows capitalism

Free market: doesn't allow feudalism

Check mate, serfs!

ayy so where are you from, bb?

sorry guys, I am all spent in arguing for voluntarism now

no u r the authoritarian

No! People planning their own future is authoritarian. Only the invisible hand of the market (pbuh) can lead us.

Except you don't hate authoritarianism, you worship it and blame some imaginary boogeyman for abuses of power while making le helicopter ride jokes about the Pinochet regime.

Weeeeeeew

I can't tell if this is just a retarded lolbert or one of our guys false flagging to make us feel better about ourselves.

Just in case it's the former: we want E C O N O M I C D E M O C R A C Y. We want workers to vote on the shit they make, in decentralized communities, voluntarily. That's it mostly. No big gubermand. If someone says they're a lefty and instead just implements le big gubermand, they will be shot just like the porkies.

In this way production will be based on human need, we will eliminate vast amounts of waste and hopefully starvation and poverty along with it, and workers will have a reason to care about all the bullshit they do (because they will have ACTUALLY chosen to do it, it won't be decided by some invisible porky and they won't be under threat of poverty and death).

sorry, I am done arguing

I want that boypussy

I agree with you, but you forgot to sage