PS2 RPGs

Fucking annoying when combined with the fact that these things can last a few turns, are fast enough to spam it, and can come in groups. Got plenty of Pocketwatches and Cure is easy enough to memorize the hit zone for, but still.

Huh, are you sure those are the actual sale prices of it there, or just what people have the auctions listed as? I suppose the stores around where I live could just be trying to fuck with people into paying more, but it's been $40 or more around here for a while).

Aside from those two guys who are trying to sell it for $95, the "buy it now" price seems to be staying in that range.

They might be. The stores where I live have been charging twice as much as ebay prices for certain games, older JRPGs usually. I guess they think people are willing to pay more for them because they usually last a lot longer than other types of games.

Oh fuck. I think it's even stronger here than when Astaroth uses it in Covenant. Still has the same -30% Sp. Defense attribute too.

Maybe, but looking at JRPGs across a number of systems, some can be really expensive, but other still really cheap, lengthy or not (Hell, Wild Arms 3 probably took me a good 80 hours or so to beat, taking into account the ingame timer being broken, and that averages $8-12 where I live). I'd think maybe it's more trying to capitalize on demand people have had for games that they're nostalgic for, at least in the cases where the game isn't outright rare. Granted, I'm not sure how well Dark Cloud 2 sold compared to the first one, but I see DC1 a hell of a lot more often, and it's probably $18 at most ($12 or so more often).

Please don't call weeaboo grindan sims "role-playing games". The only thing they really have that makes them related to either computer or gestalt (tabletop) role-playing games is that their lineage traces back to Wizardry.

Have you played Growlanser 2? It has more in depth character building, more dialog options, allows for more strategy, and is more open ended than most western RPGs.

Okay, I think I can take back what I thought about the Soul issue in FtNW before. Checking in the game itself, each fetish seems to cap at level five instead of level ten like I was assuming going off of how it worked in Covenant. This isn't actually going to be too bad to work at with how many souls bosses give.

Could be the same guy that shows up most JRPG threads to complain about the term. Just speculation though, and I could very well be wrong. But usually at least one person shows up to bitch about the notion of JRPGs being RPGs, or whine that discussion of JRPGs is even taking place on Holla Forums.

Better than 8

and pic related are my faves.

I need to get back to Romancing SaGa 3. Was getting pretty far with Claudia

Need to get back to Nocturne and finish it, and then move on to Digital Devil Saga

Also wanted to see about scrounging around for a copy of Shadow Hearts, and against my better judgement I kinda want a copy of Unlimited SaGa even if only for collection purposes. That fucking OST is on my list either way though

I also still have a copy of Dark Cloud 2 that I should probably take another crack at. Last time I was just really disappointed at the departure from the original's aesthetic and the decision to fully voice act everything. PS2-era voice acting tends to be dangerously cheesy or cringey trash, with maybe a handful of games with inoffensive to good VA work

Good luck with finding Shadow Hearts cheaply. Like Koudelka before it, it's a bit expensive these days at $45-50 around where I live, though I've rarely seen it at $20 on occasion.

Well at the very least it's in very low demand, widely available, and cheap. I swear, I probably see one copy of Romancing SaGa PS2 for every 10-20 copies of Unlimited Saga.

40-50 is doable. I paid that much for God Hand. I just refuse to pay Yakuza 2 prices.

And yeah, Unlimited SaGa's low price and availability are what allow it to tempt me. Also, there's still a decent number of new copies of Romancing SaGa PS2 for about 20-30 bucks on Amazon if memory serves. They might be on Canuckistan Amazon though

Shadow Hearts collection, mai niggah.

I paid $18 for God Hand a few years back; think local stores here you can still get it for $25-30 if you're lucky. I also paid $12 for Yakuza 2 last winter. With some patience and perseverance, you can get nice payoffs in finding games you want to play that are otherwise expensive at low prices.

I'm honestly curious though as far as SaGa goes: both PS2 games are cheap enough, but the difference in availability surprises me. From what I've seen, Unlimited Saga is rather reviled while Romancing SaGa PS2 seems better liked, but for that sort of difference in availability, is it simply a difference in amount shipped, or did Square promote the everloving fuck out of Unlimited Saga to the point it sold tons of copies? Or are series fans much more prone to hold onto Romancing SaGa, with Unlimited being relegated to a game people might buy and then trade back in fast upon trying it out?

I still don't get why PAL PS2 releases did that.

Good to see more love for the series around though. Paid about $54 total for my set.

Might as well also post my Wild Arms PS2 set. Might do another image down the line when I find a cheap complete copy of WA1; just found WA2 earlier this week after quite a while of not seeing any copies in good shape locally.

I have to ask, did Ghostlight reuse XSEED's script for FtNW? I remember hearing before that people considered Ghostlight kind of shit in general, but I can't exactly remember why (probably because here in NA we rarely have to deal with them).

Re: SaGa, I'm not entirely sure. The series has never done particularly well here, and it's not been well supported, like any Square property that isn't Final Fantasy.

I suspect it is just the last one though. Unlimited SaGa was supposed to ship with an instruction manual, but Square decided that the region that was already mostly too casual for SaGa games should just wing it when it came to Unlimited SaGa's weird board game mechanics. I rented the game once, and when I returned it, I still couldn't tell you how it worked. Even SaGa fans tended to stay away from it, and many of its biggest defenders didn't really start to tout its strengths until much later in its life cycle. I was mostly put off by bad VA work, and how different it was from SaGa Frontier (roulette wheels for attack effectiveness/elemental damage, RNG board game dungeons that reset after X turns etc)

The fucking artwork and music is stellar either way though. Same goes for the rest of the franchise really.

Regarding prices, I only really know of a couple stores around where I live that have older games. I definitely plan on checking them out for titles I cant find for cheap on Amazon/Ebay, but I think I'll wait until I've finished more of my backlog. I actually managed to snag decent copies of SaGa 1 and 2 for the Game Boy not too long ago, and my PS2 and Gamecube backlogs aren't even close to done yet.

Iv not actually played FtNW so im not sure if they just recycled the XSEED script. The problem back in the day with ghostlight was they often re translated the scripts them self and fucked things up in the process.

I actually lucked out hard core with god hand, i was working in a general retail store at the time, and we had it come in stock for $10 and i just picked it up on a whim

Ah. It got me curious as to how they might have handled things. I mean, much like Covenant before it, there's some stuff where it wouldn't surprise me if it got repurposed/censored if the games released these days, and in FtNW's case I have to wonder if that would have happened even in 2006 had XSEED not picked it up as their second game. Makes me wonder, if Ghostlight was prone to doing their own translations, if they might have fucked around or removed content in FtNW. Characters like Gerard and Buigen, while they don't explicitly say "it" aren't subtle about matters either (including them trying to invite sixteen year old Johnny into a threeway with them), and Shania's Spirit Contracts rely on her to strip to access them (I'm glad that wasn't the case for Yuri in the prior games).

I still manage the occasional really good pickup for the PS2 and Gamecube, though with the latter it's a lot less frequent considering how the system's turning into the next SNES as far as being a well known system to scalp for goes.

Also, as far as voicing goes, Shadow Hearts (1) uses voice actors best known for 4kids roles, but aside from the Sea Mother, it doesn't sound too bad (her issue isn't even her voice, it's the fact they had the actress voice the sound effects to the story she was telling; calling it awkward is putting it mildly), though I say that as someone that doesn't mind dubs that much. There's not much voicing in general for the game, but there's a bit of an odd issue in combat where it uses a mixture of some character using their English voices (Halley, Margerete) while others (Alice, Yuri, Zhuzen) use their original Japanese voices to my knowledge (Zhuzen speaking Chinese for his incantations, given where his character is from), but again, it's minimal overall.

In comparison, Covenant uses entirely different actors (the translator for both games wound up getting the pick of a professional studio for it that time around), comprised of a mixture of well known anime dub voices, as well as a few people that hadn't had much of a role for anime/vidya dubbing before or after (such as Ardwight Chamberlain for Nicholi), and features a LOT more voice acting than the prior game. I honestly thought it sounded pretty damn good.

FtNW doesn't sound too bad if you ask me, but doesn't have the same quality as the dub Covenant did. probably because at the time XSEED only had a single game under their belt, and I'm willing to be a bit lenient on that.

Meanwhile, Koudelka has probably one of the best PS1 RPG English dubs I've ever heard, though admittedly voicing in JRPGs wasn't as common back then anyhow.

Also, if you like SaGa music, Kenji Ito helped out with Covenant's soundtrack, along with Yasunori Mitsuda and series staple (as far as the PS2 games went) Yoshitaka Hirota, both of which returned to compose from SH1.

All this talk of Shadow Hearts and Koudelka makes me want to play it again. I might stream Koudelka tonight as not enough people know that game even exists.

I don't stream or anything myself, but I am trying to do my part to get the series (not just Shadow Hearts, but Koudelka as well) a bit better known among anons here with these, much the way I've made up there. Still having a bit of a hard time getting satisfied with them though (I forget how long it was for the Wild Arms ones exactly, but it was months, at least), hence them still in WIP mode.

In the off chance any one gives a fuck, streaming Koudelka here youtube.com/watch?v=C7QgsJME-gc Capturing from my PSX for authenticitys sake.

hoping my memory cards still work, haven't tested them in some time…

You going to try to take out Gargoyle when the opportunity arises?

I may try to take it down on disk 4, haven't decided yet. Tho it cant be killed on disk 3.

Figure I might as well ask since you probably have more experience with the game than I do (I first played it late last year), but I've seen it mentioned before that the encounter rate of each room is randomized per playthrough, or something, meaning a given room can be more safe or dangerous when replaying the game. Does that strike you as accurate? Was double checking how something specifically worked for the image up there and came across it being mentioned.

Im not sure sorry. Its not something i ever payed attention to. Tho the encounter rates do not feel smooth as such. Some rooms you get nothing others you get a whole lot. So its not just some normal step counter.

I'll see if I can find which document I saw it mentioned on and take a screenshot. Might be worth keeping an eye on in the future.

What is better, Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 1 or 2?

Dark Alliance 1 is a better crafted adventure. Dark Alliance 2 is basically a hubworld where you go off and complete missions.

Found it, was on a page of the Prima guide (didn't use it for playing the game, but a PDF of it was a decent way to double check how certain things worked for the images up there, such as the exact rules for positioning). Although, given the difference in names for enemies and such between it and the Koudelka bestiary on Shadow Hearts wiki, I have to wonder where one or both of them have gotten their information (it's especially telling since Koudelka doesn't even have nameplates for the enemies in-game, if memory serves).

Buy dual layer DVDs faggots. They're 8-9 gigs in size.

All shit

Is it just me or is this thing clearly a Dark Young?

Both the Prima guide and SH wiki agree on that one, whereas a number of other enemies get called clearly different things between both sites.

You could say the same thing about regular Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. I wonder if that was intentional?

Let me post.

On second thought, I'll keep my edits to just grammar and spelling.

PS2 related JRPG translation updates: Ar Tonelico 2's fan retranslation is now on patch version Beta 5a, fixing a crash the base Beta 5 had with some of the reimplemented content, or something (too bad patcher programs for stuff beyond the SFC or so don't get along well with my toaster, so I'm stuck with hoping a generous user can upload prepatched games to vola or mega). Also, Absolute Zero's Thoroughim has decided that it's better for him to focus on getting Tales of Destiny DC's translation finished, before working further on yet another version of Phantasia (given that the game's been fan translated into English three times over two versions already in the past), so for the foreseeable future the bulk of his translation time will be on getting that one done before returning to ToPX.

Yeah, I'm thinking of trying to tone down the mechanics section, since it is a little wordy. I do want people reading it to know both what the base factors are (Judgment Ring, Sanity, Fusion/Soul Energy), but also that the combat/customization gets more nuanced as the series went on (combos, crest/stellar magic customization, stock). Unfortunately that leads to it feeling like multiple bricks in a wall of text.

They had Wild Arms 1 and 2 on sale on the US PSN recently. Hope you might have gotten around to them, Gotcha Force user. Provided you don't emulate everything that old already, anyhow.

well, this is fucking weird

I burned Alter Code F on a dual layer dvd and put in on the PS2, it took a loong time to load each stage up until what I believe was the intro sequence (after the game asks you to change some options) and it freezed

I reset the console and skipped the cutscene jsut to be welcomed by a looong load black screen that never ended

I found a DVD-5 version to burn on emuparadise and burned it, but it wont even boot up

PLUS two other (working) games I put after that disc wont even load, the console tells me I should put a PS2 or PS1 disc

after putting a third game it boots up normally, so I tested the other two games again and it still wont read them

what the fuck is going on? did I fuck up the laser? did those two games get damaged in some way because of Wild Arms? what the hell man

by the way, I applied the anti freeze patch on the DVD-5 ISO so that couldnt be it

I'm curious, what model of PS2 are you using? And I don't just mean fat or slim, but the actual SPCH-X0000 or whatever number.

SCH-70012

I tried some more games and they seem to work fine. But those two are still fucked and they dont even show sings of scratching

As a side note. All DVD-5 are from the same manufacturer

Combo chaining and judgement rings in SH felt like a breath of fresh air for turn-based combat, imo. Pains me a bit that it didn't go any more in-depth with manual area positioning or something like that, with both short-range or long-range abilities.

Did some checking around; Sony apparently used to have a direct (in)compatibility list by model for PS2 games, but it seems like they've since removed that page from their site (it now redirects to the main US PSN page).

Of the other two games you tried that don't work now, what are they? Maybe there's a relation.

Koudelka allowed for manual positioning (essentially each "turn" comprised of a movement and action phase), but for whatever reason in Covenant and FtNW, you kind of just have to play the positioning as it happens. Big thing to keep in mind is simply having characters too close together (which in Covenant was needed for combos, but had the drawback that if you didn't finish the fight with said combo the party's likely to all get hit with a spell in retaliation.

I do think that the enemy height physics in regards to attacks was a pretty neat addition, since certain spells or attacks will flub if the enemy is too high/knocked down, and means the player has to know how their actions impact the enemy's position to continue the combo.

Persona 3 and 4

P3 worked fine this morning. And so did P4 a day or two ago

Other SMT games are working fine right now. But not those two

Hmm, I'm not certain. In regard to ACF, I did find an old post on Agetec's forums about someone's PS2 giving them a disc read error for it when they tried to play it (given the post date, I assume they mean the physical copy). Apparently there's something about dual layer (DVD-9) disced games being able to put a lot of wear on the system, to the point they eventually have trouble reading them. Checking wikipedia though, Persona 3 and 4 aren't listed as being dual layer, so I'm not sure if there's a connection there.

How long have you had the system for anyhow, and was it new/refurbished when you got it?

Bought it used yers ago when I was still a teenager. After that it colected dust for like 5 years until I started playing again. I had the power switch fixed 3 months and the technician also replaced the flex connected to the laser since it stood up

Some games have cutscene stutter,some dont. But I blame that on my burner

Hmm. Not sure what to tell you. Only issues I had with Wild Arms ACF was occasional glitching of he overworld (which is an ingame bug; resolves by entering a town or dungeon, but saving often helps if that's not an option), but I've got a refurbished 50001 model and was playing an actual copy I found on the cheap a few years back.

Guess I will have to burn them again.

Update: just after playing 30 minutes of devil summoner I tried P4 just in case and it works again

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON

Maybe ask about the issue in a PS2 specific thread next time one crops up, if you can't get a response here. As for ACF, I found it to be on par with the original PS1 version (being able to actually see detail on what you're fighting is nice, and the remixed songs were pretty enjoyable to me; I suppose it's a pretty nice game in my experiences, even if not the best remake around), but a lot of series fans seem to prefer the PS1 original. If you haven't given it a go in either format, maybe consider the PS1 original version, and return to ACF at a later time as a way to revisit it down the line (I played it after having WA2 and 3 between my playthrough of WA1 and ACF)?

You're summoning demons, duh.

I guess I can do that

P3 also works again

Guess I will play the psx Wild Arms on PSP

Fucking demons are toying with me. After rebooting for testing it wont work again

Man I pisses some higher ups down there

It works well that way. Same with WA2. I first played both as eboots.

Just don't mind the early 3D combat graphics much. It's a bit jarring going from really nicely sprited world/towns/dungeons to the low detail 3D in battle, but it's worth keeping in mind that WA1 released even before FFVII with its "lego minifig" models. In a way, it adds to the charm I suppose, but again, with ACF it's nice to be able to really see detail on what you're fighting, as well as your own characters.

I cheaped out since they weren't $0.99 like that flash sale. I'll get em eventually.

Looking back, they may have only been $.99 that specific time since it was the Playstation's 20th Anniversary (if I recall right when I got them on there myself) and Sony themselves directly owns the series and as such can easily price the PSN versions how they want, when they want for markdowns. I'll have to see what they've averaged in other sales, but that might have been that low as a special occasion.

Still, I'd say they're pretty worth it even at $2.40 each or whatever they were at recently. Certainly better than, say, how most of the games Square puts on sale still tend to be $4 or more even when marked down (barring Legend of Mana, which they seem fond of pricing much lower), and lately they've been ignoring marking down Final Fantasy VII and Xenogears, which I suspect are likely some of their more popular offerings.

...

Honestly, maybe it's just me (and I'm not going to say anything for against its quality without actually playing it), but I expect it would have gone over a lot better had it outright been a spinoff released alongside/close to a main series Breath of Fire V that handled more like the other entries. I mean, it's one thing to change stuff up occasionally, but from what it's sounded like to me they changed things up way too much for a single main series entry (given it was outright named Breath of Fire V in Japan). Regardless, Capcom apparently was disappointed in sales and tossed the series into the freezer for over a decade until they decided they wanted to make some mobile shit.

Play it via SMB, DVD9 games aren't worth the trouble playing them burned.

SMB?

It sounds inoffensive enough, aside from the goofy as hell guard voice. Definitely interested in the soundtrack so far.

Also I've noticed the GameCube gouging as well. I watched a few videos of F Zero GX and decided to see about getting the game only to find that used copies were 80 dollars.
Some day I'll go fast.

At least I already have Metroid Prime, Metal Arms, SSX Tricky etc. already. Would have Pikmin as well but someone damaged the disk a long time ago while I was away

I wouldn't mind it dying so much if there was another game that made use of the gene system, or more games that let you learn abilities from enemies. BoF III is still one of my favourite JRPGs and it's more dead than SaGa

bump

Man, that was a good game. It had one of the best cities in vidya, and the way you could pick a fight with anybody, even the king, was both hilarious and a great way to earn exp.

You do a local network share on your computer and plug your PS2 in the local network, you can play your games over ethernet that way.
Not flawless by any means but it sidesteps any sort of burning problems you might have and DVD9 games are known to be a bitch to burn correctly.

That's a nice collection, user.
I have WA1 original, too bad I lost the game manual years ago. I liked it so much that I used to bring it with me everywhere

I played them both, guess the reason is the atmosphere. The original one was more "serious" and less cartoonish and even the music was better. At least this is what I felt.
Like when battling Boomerang, in the original one I felt much more tension given the atmosphere

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot worse voices they could have gone with considering some of the people 4kids had at times.

Normally, I'd be against a direct sequel using a different voice cast (the way I'm pretty grateful Namco actually kept the voices from Xillia on hand while they decided whether or not to go ahead and start translation of Xillia 2), but SH1 has such a small amount of voicing that it's not all that the change isn't all that noticeable, and unlike some other games, while a direct sequel that has a LOT of callbacks to the events of the prior game, relatively few characters actually make a return in Covenant, and some of them aren't voiced since they're given a much more minor role.

And yeah, unfortunately some franchises wind up having an entry with a neat mechanic people liked, and then opted to make it unique to the title instead of ever reusing it. And it is a shame when a particular series dies that no one seems to pick up the mechanic or do something really similar.

The soundtracks across the entire series are great. The nature of the series allows for some really neat compositions, and elements like mock audio glitching/distortion feels right at home in a way it might not with other games.

You could probably find a cheap manual to complete that copy of it online, or maybe at a local shop if there's one that has a bin of loose manuals like the ones around where I live have. I mean, Wild Arms as a series doesn't seem like it ever got explosively popular, but I'd wager a manual would be much easier to find and cheaper too than trying to find one for, say, Tales of Eternia or some other ridiculously rare PS1 game.

Well, there's certainly a difference, but I thought his ACF incarnation was pretty good. The redesign for him worked out well enough in my opinion, and the remixes of his two themes, "Warrior's Whistle" and "War Demon," are among my favorite ACF tracks.

Oh, speaking of Boomerang, apparently some guy on youtube found a remix of his PS1 battle theme. The guy's not sure where the hell it came from (whether it was a fan arrangement or not), but uploaded it to youtube for posterity.

Oh, and I might as well drop an embed of that Boomerang remix while I'm at it.

You know, i still own my PS2 and i have played countless games on it but never a single RPG. I hate random encounters.

There's some like Tales of the Abyss that have on the field encounters you can avoid if you so choose. Of course, much as I like that game, it's extremely prone to being love it or hate among series fans.

Worth it for the OST alone. I think I'll play it via iso and buy the physical later. No time for a JRPG now.

Grab a GunCon2 and some light gun games.

picture unrelated

that reminds me

The OSTs for both games are great (the whole series, really), but there is a slightly different vibe between both, though that could said of the series on the whole, as the settings range from wilderness to frontier, to desert wasteland, and the ratio of fantasy/sci-fi/western tends to be different between entries as well.

Also, as far as time, I think WA1 took me about 30 hours while WA2 took about 60 or so, but I didn't do all the optional stuff.

god damnit

By the time the PS2 came along most JRPGs stopped having random encounters, aside from games that were apart of long running series, like Dragon Quest VIII and Final Fantasy X, because their fans would flip if they got rid of them. If you want to try something a little different from typical JRPGs, though, I'd recommend pic related. Technically it's an RPG, but it feels more like a cross between Shenmue, GTA, Zelda, Patlabor, and a little bit of Guitar Hero.

His ACF version is more western, I like it as well. Actually a lot of thing were good in the remake, like the relationship between Jack and Elmina. I preferred the ACF ending, less bitter than the original.

That's the Boomerang Flash theme, an optional boss fight at the Arena. My favorite one (slight more than Zed's), due to that music.

Hmm, the guy that uploaded it said he wasn't real sure where exactly in the game it was from if it was an official track, since it sounds somewhat different from his regular theme. It wouldn't surprise me if they slightly redid it in the same game for that battle after he claws his way back from Hell for one final battle. Still, for some reason (and I could be remembering wrong; might have to double check on youtube or something) I thought he used the general Quarter Knight theme, Power Fighter, in the prior battles with him, being Berserk's replacement and all.

I agree, at least on the design/rearrangement end of things. Ooba Wakako generally had some nice takes on the characters without deviating too much from the original designs (helps that I liked his art style with WA3 prior), and hearing Naruke be able to revisit older songs with access to higher quality output was enjoyable too (and some of the original composition songs like embed related were really good). Would have been nice if the "Force as primary resource" element had returned for the game though, given how enjoyable it was in WA2 and 3, but aside from Jack burning through MP like crazy (him having a low MP pool in both versions, but no MP restorative items in ACF), I suppose it wasn't too bad the way it was.

...

Perhaps it happens one time. But I remember hearing his theme in the battles.

I didn't get this, it would have make sense to user Force like WA2 with no restoration items, but why removing them if there are MPs?
Too bad that this choice made Jack really weak. Jane was actually better than him.

This was boring as hell when I played it. I thought I'd genuinely enjoy it. Had lots of cool things: equipment appeared on your character, get to roam around freely, chop shit up with okay bosses. Just felt too bare boned and rinse&repeated far too quickly. All the enemies were basically the same, only having their models replaced to make them 'feel' different.

I played a demo for Dark Alliance 2 some years ago. That one felt a lot better compared to the first.

Dark Alliance and Champions of Norrath are my favorite ps2 arpgs

Jade Cocoon 2 is also worth a try.

Dark Alliance 2 is definitely better.

There we go!

U wut m8?

Damn, you got me, I skimmed as I scrolled in stead of actually Ctrl-f'ing.

How is the PS2 port of Deus Ex? I've heard the soundtrack is really good in that version.

Is that designed by who I think it is?!

I honestly have no clue, I've only ever played the PC version, wherein the soundtrack is really good.

Yup

Yes, Urushihara did all the character designs for both the Growlanser and Langrisser series, the mainline games at least. I don't think he had anything to do with the new Langrisser game that came out a few months ago. Come to think of it, has he done anything in the last few years?

… That's the artist who did lady innocent isn't it?

Also, on the topic of ps2 rpgs that were my favorites.

Xenogears. Loved that damn game.

Was PS1. Xenosaga was PS2.

Why doesn't this game have a sequel already?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Urushihara
Yup

Looks like hes still doing doujins

blog.livedoor.jp/uruchi1/

Technically its Another Lady Innocent/Front Innocent but yup.

The odd thing was that for other characters, Cecilia understandably has a lot larger of an MP pool, Emma's Emulations cost a lot of MP but she has a chance to regain a whole bunch via Download, Jane's best uses seemed like Thief, Finest Arts (If built right), and "Follow Me", and neither Rudy nor Zed use MP anyhow. This leaves the issue of having no way to restore MP through items mostly a concern just for Jack, and while you can reduce the cost of his fast draws through usage, it takes a while and after the first few, they still cost a good bit even after the reduction. Kind of made me miss those Secret Signs from WA1.

At least with WA4 and 5 they seemed to realize returning to MP without a solid all around restorative wasn't the best idea, hence having a Compound Force Ability in WA4 that gives everyone back 40 MP, as well as a Force Ability in WA5 that gives a particular amount back to every character in a single HEX.

I thought he was supposedly going blind or something.

Because the RTS mechanics were shit. Everyone flocked to it only for the waifu sim.

You sure you aren't thinking of Rustle there?

The only way to make Jack work is to keep taking trips to the area around the Photosphere in Arctica every time you get a new sword skill once you get Asgard, as the enemies have insanely high levels.

...

I don't know at this point. I just recall seeing some anons in Holla Forums threads from time to time lamenting some famous hentai artist going blind. I suppose Urushihara certainly isn't the only one involved in vidya character designs as well (I mean, Sega's got Tony Taka doing Shining these days, and Media.Vision got Tomomi Sasaki for Wild Arms 5 and XF), but he's certainly one of the better known ones I see brought up.

I could be remembering wrong though.

That's a good idea. I'd heard about using those trolls in one of the early dungeons as a good way to get level ups, but they have a habit of counterattacking anything that directly attacks them and at the initial level you go through there at, that's likely to one-shot the character in question. Plus, I suppose compared to the general Arctica enemies, the trolls in that dungeon are pretty infrequently encountered.

The problem with 4kids was never the VA, they're(mostly) good at what they do.

Anyways, i never saw what people liked about the PS2, I've tried about 30, maybe 40 games so far, and all of them were disappointing as fuck compared to the PS1's library, especially games like Star Ocean, FF10, and waifusaga.

They picked the worse console to port the fucking game to, but the music is actually Orchestrated, and not synth.

While technically not a PS2 RPG, theres also Honjou Raita of Valkyria Chronicles.

Pretty good moves on their parts.

You can get around that by having Cecilia continuously cast the physical reflect spell on Jack while he grinds his sword moves. That area is useful but its availability is poor, whilst Arctica is reachable at pretty much every point after you get Asgard.

Yeah, I'm not complaining if the artist is good. Still, I think WA5 could have done without some of Dean's alternate outfits being belly shirts, but considering some of the stuff Tomomi has apparently drawn before, maybe it should surprise me. And at least Dean's default outfit is pretty nice.

What all have you tried so far? Just curious.

I was going to ask if reflect counts as regular magic or high magic, and then remembered ACF only has a single tier of crest sorcery. Next time I play it I'll give that some thought.

You should already have that spell bound as soon as the party forms to counter Berserk anyway.

Yeah, it should have been Greg in belly shirts and daisy dukes.

That's a good point about the fights with Berserk, considering how easily he can one shot each individual party member (other than maybe Rudy) during the first and second encounters.

Is it possible to put Retaliate or whatever the name of that spell is into a Permanence state, the way you can do so for various other status effects?

Let see here, off the top of my head for RPGs:
And more i'm completely forgetting.
I also have .Hack parts 1/2 but i unless i can find the other 6 i don't really want to touch this, and shit like Radiant historia, Skygunner, Romancing Saga, arc the lad twilight of spirits, and Baroque that i just haven't really bothered with yet, because fuck it.

Tales of Legendia is certainly an odd one due to being made by a guest team rather than the usual one, and it shows in a lot of ways. I don't dislike it, but it's far from a favorite, and many Tales fans aren't real fond of it. Honestly surprises me that Namco hasn't demoted it to escort status like they did with Tales of the Tempest.

Aside from that, the only entry in the series on the PS2 in English right now is Tales of the Abyss. I really like that one, but it's very love it or hate it with western fans of the series (Japan seems to like it with a lot higher frequency, despite for a long time being stuck with a buggy version with less content since the US version had bonus stuff and various bug fixes), and Namco couldn't be bothered with bringing Destiny 2, the PS2 port of Symphonia (at the time anyhow; it's seen a western release on the PS3 and PC), Rebirth, and the remake and/or Director's Cut of Destiny west. Fan translation group Absolute Zero is working on Destiny DC though.

While still a stand alone game on it's own right, I feel as if it's one best appreciated by fans that have played the prior entries, given the amount of cameos and call backs to the earlier games. I'd suggest giving Wild Arms 3 a go; it's a favorite of many series fans from what I've seen.

Yeah, I get you there. I found G.U. parts 2 and 3 cheap a while back, which was the only reason I was willing to pay average price on Volume 1 (I still got the entire set at half or less the normal price), but between not being able to play IMOQ yet (prices are ridiculous, particularly for Quarantine, and I'm still needing to get my PS2 set up to play games digitally) and feeling like I ought to give Roots a watch first, I haven't given them a go yet. Just feel as if I might better appreciate the series playing (and watching, in the case of the anime sections) in order than jumping from G.U. back to IMOQ.

No, the best you can do is group cast it once you get the Star Rune.

Don't forget Xenosaga 3, which was way fucking better than the first two.

Trying to remember, can't you only get that one after the photosphere leaves Arctica or something?

Not really sure what I preferred in regards to how spells were handled between WA1 and ACF, what with the original having outright multi-target varients, while the with the latter you have to consume force to use a summon to cast spells on a whole group.

Wouldn't have wanted it on PS2 anyhow, nor any other Multiplat game.

Never touched it because the first two aggravated the hell out of me, plus at the time, it was being scalped to hell.

that box quote

It's a shame, because it is the one that is the most like Xenogears, especially since its second disc had a shit load of content cut from it and becomes a slide show at some points!

Also you fight Deus and Weltall-Id.

Yeah, that hasn't changed much to my knowledge. It still ranges from $45-75 where I live.

In general there's debate about which version's better, the PS2 version (PS3 as well, as the Chronicles release is based off of it) with its additional content, or the Gamecube original with its higher combat framerate and better shadowing.

Still not real sure why they even needed to tone down the combat framerate for the port anyhow, let alone why they wouldn't want to make the PS3 version the best of both worlds (extra content and the better technical aspects from the Gamecube one).

WA4 & 5 are still on my backlog, but i'm glad to know that there is a way to restore MPs in 4.
Now, you seem an informed user, do you know if there will ever be another Wild ARMs in the future?

Yeah I did that, it was really a grind fest but it was the only way to make Jack more useful later on.

If i remember right, those trolls are found at the forest in the Elw dimension, but they are kinda rare.

I beat Shadow Hearts last weekend and will have to play Wild Arms 3 once I can get a copy or finally build a gaming PC. Wild Arms PS1was great, but 3 seems way better for me. Meanwhile I really liked Shadow Hearts aside from most bosses being tank-fests and the side content being hidden in the silliest ways imaginable. You fight the final boss either OP due to finding and completing the sidequests or you end up tanking Meta-God for almost an hour even at decently high levels for that part of the game. I wish the balance worked out better since I like how potentially flexible end-game is if you know how to keep yourself alive. The story falls down in a few places (i.e. power of love saves Yuri (still cliche even if Alice has to pay the price) ), but the atmosphere and straightforward occult horror theme's awesome.

Gotta play Growlanser titles at some point too, and Romancing SaGa/Metal Saga/Front Mission/Valkyrie Profile.

Bumpy Trot's been on my list for ages too. There aren't enough dieselpunk xRPGs being made these days, and even this one crosses genres/traditions in a weird way

Wakako's art for WA3 looks much better than ACF, but I still prefer ACF to the original's rough concept/promo character art.

I wonder how much of WA5 takes from Skies of Arcadia, and if Tomomi's obvious penchant for SoA had something to do with it.

My god that sounds like the most boring life imaginable.

Yeah, you pretty much convert Force into MP with each of those abilities in Wild Arms 4 and 5. Not sure if XF has similar though. I should probably note that the entire party in WA4 and 5 share a Force meter though, as opposed to each character using an individual one.

As of right now, nothing confirmed. But, with it being the series 20th Anniversary, Akifumi Kaneko, the former director, has stated he wants to at least do something for it, and has met with some of the former people that worked on them with him, including Michiko Naruke. One of the guys at Sony has also said something along the lines of him being open to a new Wild Arms for the PS4 and/or Vita (most likely just PS4 at this point, given Sony's push for the former and neglect for the other, at least out here). Of course, I suppose it's not up to Media.Vision or Kaneko if any more entries will actually get made, since Media.Vision doesn't own the franchise (Sony does, and given their penchant for abandoning various IPs after a generation, if not a single game at times, it surprises me it lasted as long as it did), and Kaneko's gotten bogged down with another series he's worked on the last few years getting rather popular in Japan (Senki Zesshou Symphogear), to the point it's confirmed for not only a fourth season, but a fifth season as well.

Thus far, all that's happened has been some new official art from Tomomi, with his take on drawing the protagonists of all the games (given he only worked on WA 5 and XF prior).

No, I meant the ones in Mountain Path, just after Berserk attacks Adlehyde. It's pretty early on in the game so the enemies are manageable, but every so often a troll shows up. They don't attack on their own (only countering), rejuvenate each turn, and flee after a few turns.

Provided you don't live in Australia, Wild Arms 3 is pretty damn cheap, at least where I live: About $8-12 complete here, and well worth it if you have a PS2 or fully backwards compatible PS3. You really ought to give WA2 a go as well. It's a really enjoyable one if you ask me (though the translation could have used a bit of editing to flow better) and set a lot of the groundwork for how WA3's gameplay handles. Also, while WA3 takes more after WA1 in plot (all the games are standalone, but given the sheer amount of callbacks, it feels like WA3 is a distant sequel to the first; Media.Vision's been wishywashy about continuity though), one of the rival drifters is pretty much an alternate take on the main character from WA2. Both are really similar, but completely different in personality, which makes for some neat contrasts and parallels.

I have to agree, though I still find ACF's art pretty good. Also, a tip for when you play WA3: a portrait of the character speaking appears in the text box along with them as a transparency. Pressing either start or select (I think) fades out the text and fades in the rest of the art so you can view the portraiting by itself if you want.

Tomomi only did the art, not the plot/script designs. That said, Wild Arms 5 does have a similar vibe with the Rebecca and Avril having a thing for Dean, and both coming to terms that the other likes him and being willing to share him, kind of similar to the relationship Vyse, Aika, and Fina have.

Also the new official art I mentioned. One compilation anniversary image, along with some rough sketches of Rudy, Ashley, Viriginia, Jude, Dean, and Clarissa.

Thanks for the infos. They sound promising, but experience taught me not to hype too much, so all we can do is wait and hope to see something new.

Damn, they look great.
Now that the nostalgia mode is on, I'm off to play WA. This franchise is really something.

cool

Yeah, I'm not hyping myself for much either (again, it's Sony's call on whether more get made), but it's nice that Media.Vision has never considered the series dead, even though they've gone off to doing other things like Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuths, Valkyria Chronicles III, Valkyria: Azure Revolution, and other stuff since. If a new game does get confirmed, I hope XSEED still has dibs on bringing it west. Would hate for NISA or something to pick it up.

There's also been a slew of anniversary art for a month or so from various Japanese artists earlier this year (checking daily for new uploads was fun), but it's since dried up.

Honestly, it's a bit of a shame that the series hasn't been all that popular. I mean, I suppose translation issues with the first two entries are a fair point to be had (though that was kind of par for the course at the time and they're at least not BoF II-tier illegible), but upon getting more into the series, I decided to do some looking back just to see what people had thought of the games at the time they were current out of curiosity. While there's certainly been a decent amount of liking for them, a number of people/places just seemed to write it off as being a "filler" series that one would mainly play while writing for the next more anticipated big budget release (one guy on a site devoted to liking JRPGs even claiming he had more fun using WA1's disc as a frisbee than actually playing the game), as if the games had no merit to be played on their own aside from burning time, and I really don't think that does the series justice.

I'd actually been looking for that clip and couldn't find it on youtube anymore. Thanks.

My exact thought. I guess even the western theme could have been a turn off for most people (I personally love it). And perhaps the fact that FFVII was published soon after WA.

Heh. I played the 1st one in italian and I can assure you the localization was awful. Some dialogues even went outside the text boxes..
Localization was a problem in my country for almost all PS1 (and some PS2) titles.
Then again, the 2nd didn't even make it to Europe and I had to emulate several years later.

good stuff

I remember hearing that too, but I can't find anything backing that up.

Yeah, I suppose the more western setting could very well be a turn off for some, but even on the opposite end I see some people complain that the series never really went western enough for their liking.

Considering some of the issue WA1 has in English at time (I assume that was the first language it was translated into), I can only imagine the scripts in other languages are probably worse if they were in turn translated off the official English one instead of using the Japanese one again. Unfortunately, I don't think there's enough demand for fans to fully retranslate WA1 and 2 (and in the case of WA2, I think Liz might still have dialogue issues even if the game was given a proper retranslation, as I hear his speaking style is some really heavy Japanese doublespeak or something).

At least you can always emulate the US versions, or if you have a PS3/PSP/Vita, you can set up a US PSN and download them to play that way.

Also, I'm still not real clear as to why Wild Arms 2 didn't see a PAL release. I mean, it wasn't all that late a PS1 game, coming out here in the US in fall 2000 and we still saw the occasional worthwhile (non licensed/shovelware) game here until 2003 or so, so unless it would have taken just that long to translate into however many languages games you guys get out there average of needing I can't see the timing having been an issue.

Could have been more along the lines of western media being pretty critical of it, I suppose. I'm just wondering if maybe you guys were given an actual reason for why SCEE didn't want it.

The main plot is about terrorism, so it may have been viewed as bad taste to republish the beginning of the War on Terror and etc. .

That's only like half the game. The terrorists aren't even middle eastern looking or anything either, and while I suppose War on Terror was a general western effort, if it released in the US (albeit prior to 9/11), I'd think it could have still gotten a pass for that in Europe.

How many languages did EU games even see in localization out there at the time anyhow?

How well did the first one sell there? If it didn't make that much the companies involved might have just thought that the European market wasn't interested. I know here in the US Wild Arms 1 was overshadowed by FF7.

I'm not sure on exact sales figures (and I'm not sure how easy it is to find records of that going back to the PS1), but while not exactly common neither it or WA1 are rare by any means. I'd probably but them at similar sales as BoF III or IV (they're also priced similarly close too; maybe $20-30 range). I mean, for a lot of series fans it's a favorite along with WA3, or at least a pretty well liked, but it seems like the "professional" reviewers just kind of dismissed it (wikipedia of course cites Gamespot and IGN ranking it at "mediocre" and "okay" respectively; all the more reason I put more value on what people with an actual focus on/liking for a given genre have to say, as well as various anons, albeit with a grain of salt on both accounts). I don't know, maybe general opinion on it's changed over the years or something too.

Yeah, given how Final Fantasy's one of the best known JRPG series in the west for better or worse, and with VII being the series jump to 3D, I can see it easily overshadowing various other releases at the time (especially in marketing, something various publishers haven't been good at for niche games/series that actually need it), and a lot of other JRPGs released before or after on the system being compared to it in turn.

I'm a fan of the old spaghetti westerns, so I could agree to that. But we must consider the contest: RPG with fantasy elements and western style. It's perfect and balanced to me the way it is.

Yeah, I've already got them and ready to be played.

Basically FFVII took all the market from WA1 even in Europe, only in Japan went good (there is even an episode in the anime GTO where a student is playing WA1 on his PS1).

And we must admit one thing, WA1 and WA2 weren't graphically as good as FF. I personally didn't care, as kid all I wanted was fun.

The most used: German, French, Spanish and Italian. Some games, like The Legend of Dragoon and MGS, were even dubbed (awfully at least in italian), but it was something back then.

Yeah, there's really not a whole lot of other options for western JRPGs, be it spaghetti western or otherwise (from what I've read, the proper term for what Wild Arms fits in is "Weird West"), barring maybe a chapter in Live-A-Live, I think. The series certainly found its niche, and I certainly like how they handled it for the most part, and the shift in the ratio for fantasy/sci-fi/western kept the setting/vibe from feeling too samey in my opinion. Too bad like a lot of other classic JRPG series, it hasn't seen an entry in a while, leaving it dormant at best.

I think I've heard that one anime even had a character lamenting that he hadn't got around to Wild Arms 3 at the point the show was set. Not entirely certain which anime it was, just something I remember reading about a while back.

I don't know. I'd say I really liked the world character sprites in WA1 and 2, and WA2 has some nice low-poly towns and combat character models. WA1's the one that could have used more work on the 3D model front for combat. I have to wonder if Sony forced them to have 3D of sort with it (given the PS1 could handle 3D and they probably saw the N64 with its 3D as something to prove their system could handle too), and maybe the combat designs had to all be redone or something. I don't know, I'm not real familiar with the dev process for them games or if there's some "making of" videos from Playstation Underground or something.

Hmm. Any chance maybe the sheer amount of translation into all of those for some of the longer scripted JRPGs might have kept them from coming over there if they didn't have all that good of a sign that it would sell extremely well off the NA releases? Though that certainly wouldn't explain Xenogears not being released in PAL areas (I mean, it did more than well enough here to secure a Greatest Hits print run).

A real shame. WA should deserve more indeed. It's been 10 years already, I hope to see a new title being developed and released one day.

Definitely. And it's entirely possible what you said about Sony. I'll dig some more and try to see if i can find something.

I don't really know. If we think about it, FFVII came out only in English in all Europe and it could have been the same for the other games.

It did great, I know. Even thoght it was cut in the 2nd cd.
I don't know why so many games didn't come to Europe, one that comes to my mind is also Brave Fencer Musashi.
Maybe the Europe videogame market didn't sell many RPGs back then, so companies kept most titles outside of it but some huge/promising titles.

I'm glad somebody mentioned this game, Metal Saga was really fun in a goofy sort of way.

Seems the thread to ask.
Downloaded Namco x Capcom patched, how fun is it?

Yeah. I mean, Sony really ought to have continued Wild Arms, same with Konami for Suikoden, Capcom with Breath of Fire, etc. Still, I suppose with Sony directly owning the rights for Wild Arms, I'd say there's little chance of them pulling a BoF and making the next big entry mobile shit (not that Wild Arms hasn't had flash based phone games in Japan before, but as far as I'm aware they've all been minigame style things, like a tetris-like with the Puzzle Box blocks as pieces, and a small shoot-em-up starring Virginia).

If that's the case and they were fine leaving certain games English only (though was stuff like FFVII still US English, or did they tweak it for EU spelling?), then what sense would it make in leaving various games NA only if they already had acquired a translation? In a case like that I'd think the majority of the work might be considered "done" and that would have just left coding them for PAL use, printing, and promoting them.

I think the most egregious case of that was the fact that Chrono Trigger of all things got denied being brought over there for the SNES, then denied again for the PS1 (though if memory serves that wasn't that good a port due to Square's western team botching the text insertion for it and FFIV PS1, resulting in long load times the Japanese version lacked), making the DS port a whopping fourteen years after the SNES release the first time it officially came to PAL areas. Given how well the game's regarded, it seems ridiculous that it happened like that.

Oh well, I suppose you guys still got the occasional bone thrown to you that NA didn't, like Terranigma (which now has a patch to make it play at standard NTSC speed instead of the lower PAL one).

I've taken a glance at the EU PSN's website before, and just looking at JRPGs available on it, the amount was shockingly low compared to the NA one. Not sure if that's a direct indication of Sony just not caring to rerelease them or you guys outright missing a shitload of PS1 JRPGs in general, but either way I get why a lot of PAL PS3/Vita owners opt to have a NA PSN account of some sort. Though to be fair, we're missing a fair number out here, too (both ones that are on the JP PSN but not out here, and for whatever reason are entirely missing from the PSN worldwide).

If you haven't played it yet, there's always Metal Max Returns for the SFC, which has been fan-translated. Too bad MM2 is in fan-translation hell, and with how unknown the series is there's been no real interest in translating MM3, MM4, or Metal Saga: Season of Steel, and with Metal Saga apparently being REALLY hit or miss with customers/reviewers, Atlus never bothered to pick up any other games in the series to bring over.

On that note, I took a quick look comparing the amount of PS1 RPGs rereleased on the PSN between Japan, NA, and PAL via the wikipedia pages for all three. Japan seems to have close to 70 (admittedly I'm having a hard time seeing a listing for Suikoden I and II for them, be it under the "Suikoden" or "Genso Suikoden" moniker), NA has about 30, and PAL a measly 15 or so.

Which is a shame because It's a really good RPG.

Is it just me, or does the catalog seem broken to anyone else right now?

Also did a quick check of what PS2 games have seen rerelease. The numbers a bit closer between all regions for JRPG rereleases (about 20 for the US and Japan; PAL still gets less at about 10 though), mainly because for whatever reason the US saw a number of ones that were never put up in Japan, and a lot of the ones that got rereleased in Japan weren't cleared for US rerelease (some have the excuse that they didn't come west initially for the PS2 anyhow). Regardless, these numbers are hampered some by the fact that certain games are only available for play on the PS4 (or Vita through remote play), while others are PS3 only, so you can't even have the entire PSN's PS2 JRPG rerelease library for your region on a single system.

Bit odd though to see a real lack of Square titles among them compared to how the PSN's PS1 library was just littered with them. The PS2 classic section seems much more Atlus' and NIS' ballpark in terms of that. On an opposite note, I wonder why Namco has shied away from doing PSN versions of any Tales games not on the PS3 already. None of the PS1 or PS2 entries have seen one (though Symphonia has the PS3 HD version of the PS2 port, which saw a physical and PSN release), even in Japan, and it's not as if the series is a slouch in sales natively there (and even here it's probably become more popular than a lot of series, due in part to increased effort in bringing them over lately and still being an ongoing series).

Yeah, it would at least be remembered as a cult classic if it didn't have the Breath of Fire name attached to it. I'm not sure why Capcom didn't just change a few things and make it a new IP. It's not like it would have been much of a financial risk back then, when people still bought anything with their logo on it.

It's working fine for me.

Yeah, it seems to be resolved now. For a while nothing was moving, and checking a few other boards it seemed like mainly a Holla Forums issue.

If you ask me, the issue isn't even so much that it had the Breath of Fire name on it, but rather that it was treated as another main entry, without another game being in the works alongside it that might have gone over better with series fans if Dragon Quarter didn't. I mean, a spin-off or sidegame doesn't have to be bad (and indeed, some are pretty well received, like Final Fantasy Tactics); just don't try to attach a number to it as if it's the next main installment, the way they did with the game in Japan (which leaves the series vulnerable if the game isn't received well, and if it is it can perhaps start its own subseries while the main series can do what its been doing).

Dragon Quarter is still the only Breath of Fire game I've played so I can't comment on the fan reaction to such a radically different game. But personally speaking it's an incredibly interesting game with an amazing overlap between story, tone, and mechanics. I played it last year and I didn't think much of it at first but as I progressed, restored, and moved forward it really grew on me. It had a similar feel to Baroque, being a game where smaller loops can contribute to the overall game. And it was a strategy game that made the "overworld" of the map a relevant factor; trapping became a really neat way to whittle down the hardier enemies. And it goes mentioning that while the story is a very simple one it really presented some great moments and interesting characters.

I don't know if making it a gaiden game would have created a greater opportunity for it's own subseries or anything like that, and only Tri-ace in recent memory still makes that particular style of strategy game anymore. But I would like to see another experimental game like it even if they dropped the BoF tag.

BoF5 played dramatically different from the first 4. Got a lot of shit for trying something different. That average JRPG weeb is never going to be happy with having to restart their game x number of times before progressing. I thought it was pretty good game all things considered.

What amused me is that Capcom shitcanned the franchise after this. Yet that crazy jap that makes the super complex wiki required saga frontier/last remnant games continues to develop matter how much money he hemorrhages.

That part I get, I just didn't have that reaction myself because I hadn't played 1-4. I would still like too because I've heard they are good games. I had heard about the game somewhere years ago and found it for $10 in the wild and just picked it up and sat on it for a while.

What's funny is that I only did two SOL restarts my first time through. One a couple hours in, and another after entering the last area and hitting the right combination of High D-Counter, low funds, not wanting to try and grind for better stuff. But the first one was because I didn't understand the game that well, and the second was because I understood enough to realize that starting over was the better option. Still sucked that I had to replay 20+ hours of game again but the early game goes much faster and knowing how to handle regions makes it more tolerable.

It's the kind of mentality that really is associated with Roguelike games and it's still a niche mindset. I was happy to hear that some of the development staff went on to work on Dead rising because you can see their touch there and I wish more games would impose some sort of "finality" in their mechanics. Don't just tell me a character is dying of something make it a part of the game you know?

But yeah, it's the kind of game that when I tell my friends about it they don't show any interest the minute I start explaining the Scenario Overlay System. Restarting isn't that desirable of a trait in a game.

Guys, how the fuck do you pronounce Elw?

Does Yakuza count? I played some Yakuza 2 recently, got to the part where Kiryu and Sayama go to Kamurocho together after she recovers from being shot. Also, my friend recently finished Evergrace. That game is interesting to say the least.

It's "el-loo" according to Wild Arms wiki, though I have to wonder where they got that from, considering they don't show up in any of the voice acted entries (barring ACF having voicing for combat in Japan, though). Maybe an interview or something?

I don't remember seeing much of a complaint about it being occasionally brought up in /JRPGG/ back in the day on halfchan, but I think most people tend to consider them more of a beat 'em up.

Tell your friend there's a sequel of sorts to Evergrace, called Forever Kingdom in the west if they haven't heard of it and might be interested. Might be hard to find if they're not emulating or buying online though. I've only ever seen it once where I live (meanwhile I see From's other early PS2 RPGs, Evergrace and Eternal Ring, all the time), and unfortunately that copy had yellow paint spilled all over it.

I've heard of the mobile release in Japan, well I truly hope not to see another mobile WA game.

From what i've read it was US english, the only change was made to FPS when converting it to PAL.

That's what buggers me, the only thing I could thinks of is the marketing. FFVII was heavly publicized, got spots with Pepsi and stuff like that. So I guess it drawn attention even to Europe or perhaps Squaresoft decided to export the game not only to US so they could have more profits.

Don't forget the mobile version, too. I've emulated a lot of games never released to Europe. Unfortunately, it was the only thing to do here, at least until the PSN. But not all the games were brought there like you said.

I played both, I was so sick of the grinding I used every cheese move I could think of and all but two of my party was cripplingly under leveled when I beat the Black Knight and Dark Genie. DFark Cloud 2 was more bearable but I still ened up using the robot against the Dark Genie.

I may have skimmed past it, but does anybody have one of these specifically for RPGs?

Honestly, if it's just minigame-tier stuff, I don't mind much. Tales has generally done similar: apart from ports of Phantasia and Hearts R (the only mothership titles they've put on phones), everything else for mobile devices there has been minigame sort of stuff (the stated goal being to introduce mobile players to the series through those, and that if they like them, they can buy the actual console/handheld entries). And with Sony still having their own consoles and handhelds, I don't think they're liable to go the Square route with assloads of mobile ports and remakes (some of which, like RS2, being the only version of a game the west gets to see in English) for franchises they own, Wild Arms being one of them and all.

The only one I know of is an old half/vg/ one with maybe 40-50 games on it, but usually when it gets posted, it's noted as having issues, be it missing stuff (not a single Wild Arms, Atelier, or Shadow Hearts on it, for instance) or various games that some feel don't belong on it. Also the fact that of the many, many fan-translated JRPGs, only Mother 3 was on there. I suppose there is an excuse to be had though in that halfchan has (had? I haven't been back in years, not sure if it changed) worse filesize limitations then we have here, and with them having an actual google doc for /jrpgg/ as well, they might not have felt obligated to have everything worth playing on a single image (which admittedly could get very, VERY big if not divvied up into generations, or something)

I've considered revamping it since having something like that for potentials for people to look into would be nice, but decent JRPG discussion is hard enough to come by and some games some anons find great are ones others hate the shit out of (Tales of the Abyss being a good example). Just strikes me that, without a recurring thread (or board; /jrpg/ here is long dead, though), trying to get a consensus as to what people would really like to see on it might be rather hard outside the most well known stuff. Especially in the case of fan-translations where, outside a handful of popular ones, trying to find people that have given them a go and might be able to give input could be a crapshoot.

This thread should have been about video game artists who also draw porn.

bump

Does anyone remember the WA3 flash game that they put out right before WA3 came out?

That's a good idea
Here you go, fam.

I didn't have a PS2 at the time it came out, but I would expect any extra games like that would have been Japan only.

I just picked up Grandia 3 and .hack part 1 for about 27 bucks. Either of them any fun? I've heard about .hack, but don't know how fun it is, and I've heard of the Grandia series, but never played one.

And yes, I'm aware the other 3 parts of .hack only get more expensive as the series goes on.

No it was on the US site, I can't find anything about it, though. You mostly fought Gobs.

Hmm… Any idea what the web address might have been or something? Maybe some old archival service might still have a copy of the page (though I expect the actual flash game itself would be inactive, but you might potentially get a name).

Surprisingly, some PS2 era promotional websites are still up (for example, XSEED's left the site for Wild Arms 5 up, and Midway's Shadow Hearts: Covenant site is still up as well which is really odd since Midway went bankrupt), but you might be hard pressed to find ones for earlier released games like Wild Arms 3 still around. Anyhow, Wild Arms wiki does apparently have a forum, so if it comes down to it, maybe you might ask if someone there might remember.

Grandia 1 and 2 are really good, but 3 is just okay.

bump

Every JRPG is overshadowed by FF7.

Fuck FF is the only JRPG series that sells millions and is known by the average gamer.

Oh man, i forgot how fun those games were. Are there any newer games like them?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowblind_Studios_game_engine#Games

True, but looking at how various older games were received, seeing them sometimes compared against Final Fantasy entries, as if those were the absolute pinnacle of what JRPGs for the systems they were on could/should be, gets a bit annoying. Also, as mentioned earlier, the notion that other games/franchises were merely to be thought of as "filler" to big name franchises like what Square offered doesn't feel right to me, but maybe some people really don't feel like other games/series are anything but a way to keep busy between dropping $40-60 on Square's games.

I suppose it doesn't help matters though that various publishers out here have had a refusal in the past to market them properly (niche games/genres being the games that actually have a need to be marketed right). Combine with occasional poor release timing (such as releasing way too close to a more popular, higher anticipated title, such as Shadow Hearts releasing too close to FFX), and it can be a recipe for low sales and the average person not even knowing its available.

Final Fantasy has been kind of like a double-edged sword for western JRPG fans since VII. On one hand it's success is a big reason why so many other JRPGs were brought over here during the PS1 and PS2 eras, but on the other hand a lot of those games are sort of doomed to become cult classics at best, even within their own genre, because they can't escape FF's shadow.

Some of Square's other series at least seemed to sort of benefit from Final Fantasy's own popularity, even after they stopped tossing the Final Fantasy name on stuff that wasn't actually Final Fantasy. But there's certainly still the issue that Final Fantasy is the series that readily comes to mind for most westerners (Kingdom Hearts also has the benefit of being partially western already due to the Disney aspect), and not even Dragon Quest is as well known here despite being ridiculously popular out in Japan (lack of marketing and various entries being ignored for localization or fucked with haven't helped matters there). A few series have kind of managed to break out though with proper marketing like Tales, or slowly finding more of an audience over the years with reprints to help with availability issues, like SMT and Persona. A lot due still remain not all that popular though (and in cases like Breath of Fire, Suikoden, and Wild Arms, there hasn't been much in the way of recent entries to keep it fresh in people's minds), and some you might say were never even given that much a chance to compete between only having a single entry brought west and "professional" reviews not being all that kind to them, likely dissuading a number of potential buyers (Metal Saga and Glory of Heracles DS come to mind).

Also, I'm not sure if various companies have simply been stupid enough to release their own JRPGs within a short distance before or after Square-Enix has opted to release their own games or if it's the other way around (Square actively sabotaging competition by releasing too close to other games in the subgenre), but I've been keeping a list of possible games Square might have had a hand in damaging western sales of.

That's a possibility. Disney used to, and probably still does, do the same thing to other animated movies by re-releasing their biggest hits in theaters around the same time. That's part of the reason animated films have never taken off in the U.S. the same way they did in Japan.

I know there are theories that they're deliberately fucking up releases of Dragon Quest games in the west, but I didn't know they did it to other games as well. What are some of the games on your list?

It's mostly just speculation on my part due to proximity of western release dates to Square's stuff, with the non Square-Enix games being hard to find, expensive now, and/or selling really poorly in general. The real question though, I suppose, is who declared the release dates first. If Square announced first, then most like some of these other companies were just being stupid in releasing competing games better anticipated titles in more popular series/by a more popular company. But if Square was the one announcing later, I think it might give evidence that they wanted to quash potential competition. Again though, it's just speculation (and in the case of Nier, Square fucked one of their own games they were publishing over), and I would suppose more research other than release date distance might need to be considered. But Square does have a longstanding popularity, and it wouldn't shock me that people are much, MUCH more prone to drop money on something their familiar with, than take a chance with games they might not know that much on coming out in the same span of time that would cost the same amount of money (and buying both would likely double it). I'll post the list in a few.

As for Dragon Quest, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some higher ups on the Square end of the equation (given the merger) are angry at how Enix' old competing series has done, but can't do much about it locally since it's a cash cow in Japan and lets Square blow ridiculous amounts of money on games that may or may not be well received. But with it having never been quite as popular in the west, they could likely vent their frustrations on the fans here through stuff like shortprinting, poor marketing, avoiding bringing various games over, and failure to listen to western fans complaining about the accenting making the games harder to read than they ought to be, and for quite a few years just swept the series under the rug (and I'd swear some companies purposefully screw up releases when it's not a series they really care to "waste" time and money with bringing overseas; a cursory "well we tried" that they can use as an excuse). Or maybe they're just stupid. I've heard rumor one of the Square bigshots thinks that Dragon Quest wouldn't sell here without the accenting, leading to a conundrum where they feel they have to put them in to bring them over at all, but the additional localization costs are enough to keep them leery of bringing them over at all.

Admittedly some of these might be a stretch, depending on how much time one might consider that a more popular company releasing something could impact sales of a less popular company/series sales, as well as whether it's fair to compare traditional JRPGs to tactical ones, turn-based to real-time combat, etc. And some games likely suffered more from issues at the hands of their own publishers than Square sabotage (from what I've read, Wild Arms ACF saw it's NA release date delayed a good bit, which likely did a number on possible hype and sales on its own, but releasing the same day as DQVIII, with its FFXII demo, probably kicked it while it was down). Some of them also seem to have done okay despite the release frame (Tales of Symphonia Chronicles, for example). This is merely comparing release dates of various Square games with ones that released at least somewhat close in time to them (which were sometimes other Square published games).

I suppose the big thing to do would be to try to determine what other circumstances the games might have had (delays, worse marketing, etc) that could have impacted sales, and who picked what date to release on first, but it really wouldn't surprise me if Square had a hand in reducing western sales of some of these (if not practically killing them in a few cases, like Shadow Hearts and Dual Hearts).

Also, neither Wikipedia or Ogre Battle Saga wiki give a date beyond "1997" for the PS1 NA release of Tactics Ogre: LUCT, so that one might be a moot point, depending on when it actually did come out. But given how easy and cheap it is to find FFT (Greatest Hits print helps), and how hard to find and expensive Tactics Ogre PS1 is, if they were close releases, FFT might have very well have stolen the spotlight.

Well I think that people who play Final Fantasy are not necessarily JRPG fans.

A lot of folks played FF7 but never touched another JRPG.

Yeah. I mean, I can't claim to have much against Square or their series (not fond of how they're been handling the western releases of stuff recently though), but when I started getting an interest in JRPGs a few years back, I kind of made an idea of giving games that weren't necessarily from them a try during early forays into it, since I'd heard some people say they knew of people when they were young that had fallen into the trap where they only wanted to play general Square stuff, if not just Final Fantasy, and never quite broke out into giving other stuff a go (if not regarding things not by Square as automatically being of lesser quality).

I still haven't given FFVII much of a go. The Final Fantasy I've had the most experience with at this point has been FFIV DS.