UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME

ftm.nl/artikelen/waarom-neoliberalen-dol-zijn-op-het-basisinkomen

Articles dealing with UBI: porky's answer to the inevitable mass unemployment that comes with automation. Arguments for or against it. A potential if somewhat lackluster compromise between capitalism and workers needs? A the new means of enslavement? A helpful concession in the eventual path of reforming into socialism?

Other urls found in this thread:

newint.org/features/2016/11/01/why-a-basic-income-could-be-a-gift-to-the-right/
web.archive.org/web/20160622115504/https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/22/silicon-valley-universal-basic-income-y-combinator

this fucking meme again…

UBI implies currency which is still part of the capitalist mode of production, it involves banking, lending, credit and other shit which will be used by the finance sectro to profit from the workers

stop pushing for UBI, start pushing for Universabl Basic Commodities, where Commodities are produced with the highest amount of automation, and are delivered to the stores for people to consume, thats the only way to take advantage of the automation brought by the system

there is a reason UBI is somewhat accepted between socdem porkies

Indeed next level neo-liberalism
newint.org/features/2016/11/01/why-a-basic-income-could-be-a-gift-to-the-right/

UBI is going to happen. Probably a lot sooner than we all think. We should be discussing ways of combating its ill effects (namely further stultifying and deradicalizing the masses)

They're not commodities if they're handed out for free, fam.

kys. It's a much better alternative to starvation and resorting to shitty welfare programs.

You know what else is a good solution to starvation? The awful capitalist slavery we have now where nobody is actually starving. The same one you're trying to further entrench with your UBI porkyism.

It's a literal welfare program and a shitty one

UBI will never happen. Porky won't even do Keynesian policies that we know work. Much less something as goofy as UBI.

Can you imagine the animosity of working people towards the people on UBI?
It would tear society apart. A slim welfare system is already enough to give porky propaganda material.

it wouldn't work anyway. The average rate of profit is falling and will continue to fall. Nobody will pay for UBI, businesses will be struggling to break even (except monopolies of course)

I'll hand you an ass whooping for free, fam.

Stop shilling for that. You and I both know it won't work. The (financial) capitalist class still won't admit that infinite growth will drive up the consumption cost infinitely too, and every time people want to increase the UBI, a lot of us will have to get shot first by robotic laser beam in the future.

but I wasn't arguing for it. leftypol clearly did not read the article I posted

UBI is a UNIVERSAL Basic Income. Everyone's on UBI.

That won't matter once the media starts fearmongering about people taking advantage of the system like they do already with social security/welfare

I'm not sure how someone would go about "abusing" the UBI. One of its core tenets is that it's non-conditional.

You will have 2 types of people, the ones that live off of UBI and the ones that work. Of course the workers also get UBI but they will also be the ones getting large taxes on their own profits that will then be redistributed to the leeches.

It's likely that a UBI based on a truly progressive taxation system would mean very little change in the taxation of working-class people.

Universal basic income (ie you own the MoP and deserve at least the basics) is a good concept for socialism as it allows us to deal with reduced jobs while working towards communism. It is retarded in capitalism because it doesn't solve its fundamental problems, it only temporarily stills the pain. Purchasing power is still going down and capitalist will not like it if you tax them that much. As time goes on you basically tax the capitalists to give stuff to the ex-workers for free. Either this breaks down into the capitalists trying to break it up or the workers rising up because they cant climb any ladders and want more power in society.

wew

Again, KYS.

We should be a bit more skeptical of UBI. Either they will start out giving us just enough for subsistence or the policy will be so inflationary that in a short period of time they will be only giving us enough for subsistence. It also allows porky to privatize a lot of industries that are normally government-run at this point. It's unique as a welfare program in terms of the sheer control it gives to big business. Most of us will be unemployed because of automation. So we get an allowance every month like a little schoolboy. But then all our means of subsistence must ultimately come from buying things from porky. Kalecki's essay on full employment goes far in explaining the capitalists' rationale behind supporting this measure. It appeases the workers while giving porky even more power than they already had. If we were not already hopelessly dependent on the bourg, UBI and automation will certainly make it so.

It's similar to being a serf.
Your lord provides certain commodities for you but he owns your land and all your shit, has enforcers at his call so you can't fight him and confiscates whatever part of your work he wishes. The whole charade might still be executed through the medium of money but it's not that big of a difference. You give up your freedom and self determination for safety and material wealth.

true. It will also be even harder to acquire capital living on basic income. The world will be more or less permanently divided between those who have capital and their heirs and everyone else. Whatever capitalism formerly promised in terms of mobility between classes as compared to feudalism will disappear.

Just provide me a better an better alternative.

?

Then don't live on basic income?

Do you even late stage capitalism? The whole reason why people are against that is because you can't found a new business anymore.

Want to sell food? Outcompeted by established food chains owned by the global food monopoly.
Wanna build cars? Outcompeted by the owners of the means of production and their patented technology.

Whatever you do, there will be a global company able to do it cheaper with better tech which you can't compete with. Even if you could create good tech, they would buy you out, patent your shit and then let the patent rot in their vaults. You can't win anymore.
The reason why stuff like Tesla is even a thing is because internet tech was a field that wasn't fucked by this yet and for a short time people could still rise to the upper class. The gap in porkies defense has almost closed up now and we can't count on new fields like internet where a guy with a computer and some good ideas could get rich popping up again.

I was assuming UBI in the near future. Anyways, what's the alternative to mass starvation? UBI is the clear answer, at least in the short term.

It might be but you need to go further at some point, less we end up in my dystopia.
It can be a bridge to socialism or post scarcity but a bridge needs 2 ends, it can't go on for ever.

The way it works:


Willingly relinquishing the ability to resist in any way is SUCH a good idea. We should surely continue to support the system which left to its own devices will kill us.

Fuck UBI.

I honestly think that that will be the final solution. Upper class will use superior technology to kill all the proles. I solves overpopulation, resource waste and whatnot, I can imagine them being for it, since they don't regard us as human anyway.

After the purge, humanity will ascend to be transhuman, immortal, all knowing and quite powerful but we won't ever see anything of that. The story ends with the porks fucking off to space, leaving a burnt down earth behind them with us fertilizing the ground.

web.archive.org/web/20160622115504/https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/22/silicon-valley-universal-basic-income-y-combinator

Lel, you are fucking stupid

Almost one billion people face hunger every years, and most of which will die of malnutrition

You're thinking of job guarantee.

please get real

UBI ain't happening. You can't even talk porky out of austerity measures.

UBI talk is just clickbait

Would UBI be maintained perpetually out of the ever loving kindness of the upper class? Why wouldn't it be eliminated if doing so isn't a risk?

...