Hey Holla Forums

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Read the ego and his own.

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not an argument

Liberals don't comprehend fascism. However, we do, and thus we can convince them otherwise. Also there are ways of undermining fascism without resorting to firing squads. I'm not a total pacifist, but still, I'd rather avoid it.

Normally I'd agree with you, but we are entering a situation where the liberal establishment is crumbling, and like Weimar the far left and far right will rise to take its place. In every country where fascism and socialism went head to head, fascism won, but not because it was more popular. It won because fascists weren't afraid to go out and knock heads, to attack, kill, imprison their enemies and destroy their ability to co-ordinate and organize. It happened in Italy, it happened in Germany. By the time the leftists actually grew the balls to stand up to them in Spain they had lost the initiative. Fascists ruled in Berlin and Rome and we no longer had the strategic leverage or the strength to resist them with force.

We can't allow that to happen again. As the liberal establishment crumbles and the far left and far right rise, we have to be the ones to knock heads, because we can be certain that if we don't the fascists will.

fuck off liberal!

Precisely the reason why I used to be a Democrat against gun-control.

How does it feel having an infantile mental disorder?

Why is your race/identity so important to you? Why does this justify your hatred/violence? Before you mention how other races are allowed their own safe spaces and possible states, let me tell that they're just as ridiculous, so you'll find no double standard from me.

Not being bloodthirsty makes me infantile? ok

I hate humans

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like gommie merzbow

Same shit they're planning for ISIS - big effort to force the youth in radicalized regions into employment and facilitating "creative outlets", like community service and sports clubs.

Most of this shit festered online when jobless white males got together and decided the Jew was the reason they have no gf, with a little help from old school fascist propaganda outlets.

Strategists in the CFR and other establishment think-tanks have concluded that ISIS is an outgrowth of the failed Arab Spring, which was itself a product of unemployment and despairing youth.

The liberal democratic establishment has known since WWII that it has no choice but to intervene in this way during crises of this kind. It will face fascist/reactionary aggression or a socialist/communist revolution is it doesn't.

What is interesting about reading these documents is you see that the managers of liberal democratic capitalism accept many of the positions of Marxism. They are under no illusions about class society and how it functions. They can't afford to be.

In short, capitalism is medicating itself with social democratic policies - again.

Source: CFR publications on geoeconomics.

the well being of the race IS NOT your well being

Fascists only have one place in society and that's six feet deep.

kek

No. You change the material conditions that produced the belief system.

Remember that rising standards of living are inversely correlated with religiosity.

The only way to change somebody's mind is to change their conditions.

Praise materialism.

The material conditions that cause people to be socialists also cause them to be fascists.

The conditions differ based on class. Fascism finds its greatest following among the petite-bourgeoisie, although it may drag a sizeable minority of the proletariat along with it.

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You do realize that this is a demotivational propaganda image, right?

The implication is that facism cannot be defeated in debate because it is logically infallible (and thus, correct).

It's one thing to adopt facist methods, even to adopt facist ways of thinking. But to adopt facist propaganda as the central point of your reactionary thinking is a new low, even for you.

Because we're seeing nothing but peace and love in this thread, right?

ONE HUNDRED MILLION BILLION TRILLION YEARS IN G U L A G FAM

Or a faith and therefore not susceptible to debate.

~10 years of hard labor.

In fairness, who's to say fascism hasn't been defeated in debate in some places? Much like prevented criminal activity, we'll never truly know the full extent of that method's effectiveness because we can't always measure things that didn't happen.

Can people please stop quoting most Based Sergey.

Its is the fucking epitome of armchair larptivism.

Literally none of you are even close to engaging in revolutionary violence and if you did it would be as a mall shooter or something. Which, to be quite honest, is what Nechayev would have been had he been alive today.

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That may have hold true during the 20th century, but today it's literally the opposite. Antifa tends to come from the upper-middle class, while fascists come from a broad class-spectrum, including working class.

I have no way of determining if that is true. I have no data concerning the class composition of Antifa, I have only read data concerning 20th century fascism. If it is true, I suspect it is because the capitalist class succeeded in neutering or destroying the radical left during the Cold War, and when people seek change they tend to seek novelty, regardless of whether or not it is conducive to their interests.

Not effective.

Yes, this is true. So is class.
I'm not sure what is contradictory about the idea of race or nation.

I mean that my foremost political goal is the preservation, empowerment, and advancement of White Americans first and White foreigners second. This ideology is intertwined with American nationalism to the point where constitutionalism does not infringe upon the well-being of my race. I believe that the Jews are generally perfidious, but I do not seriously believe in an organized, unified conspiracy, nor to I absolve Whites of allowing ourselves to be manipulated by them (the Jews would have no power without gullible Whites).

Individualism is a Western concept, and one that will not protect you from the rest of the tribalistic world. I do not pass judgment on it philosophically - I simply find it inadequate at present.

If you have arguments that racial nationalism will not positively impact the health and influence of my racial demographic, or if you have arguments for a better path, I'm all ears.

Arab spring was manufactured resistance.

zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-26/george-soros-false-flag-factories

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I didn't know starving or not was a concept.

Neither actually exist.

user, for an aware individual there is no hope for reprogramming. they are cognizant of the ideologies and fallacies that are found within them, seperating dogma from truth. the fact of the matter is politics and ideology are not absolute, which is the fallacy found in all extremist ideals. once you realize that politics and states and the like are all just tools to be used by the people in power, regardless of how theyre in power, and you realize there is no such thing as a perfect system, because they are as perfect as the people that occupy them.

Hold up, he's not ready for such truth bombs

I'd say lumpenproles are more fascist than regular proles

that's a bit of a simplification. the "social fascism" policy of the Comintern fucked the KPD over in Germany. The Spanish Second Republic was internationally isolated. Italy was considerably more backwards and lacking a strong urban working class.

I'm not saying violence can be avoided, but strikes, sabotage, slowdowns, resistance and propaganda can also be used. Especially in the age of the internet, it's a good tool for breaking down national divisions. If you want to be on the streets, that's up to you.

Also this. Any attempted insurrection would immediately be crushed and used as an excuse for ramping up fascism.

Thing is, it's not entirely unfounded. Soros did fund anti-Communist groups in the Eastern Bloc in the 80's.

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Which past society would you say came closest to achieving what you consider White Nationalism/Supremacy/whatever? I can guarantee that for whichever one you pick, it will still display the class contradictions inherent to its society, where most White people were still much worse off than whoever formed the ruling class of that society.

yeah but Holla Forums types think he's some communist mastermind, rather than just a liberal capitalist

politics and ideology not being absolute is dogma?
wow, you sure showed me.

The guy is a mastermind though, the way he's traded shows it's undeniable.

No, your "a system is only as good as the person who runs it" is dogma. Sure, it could be used in the context of any system but it's more often than not used by lolberts, such as you to justify capitalism and pin all the failures and internal contradictions within capitalism on the State. Also the "no system is perfect", as if the fact that economic systems can have shortcomings negates the prospect of progression.

Maybe you were actually being sincere, but those two excuses are the two I most often see used by liberals and lolberts to justify capitalism, and I would go so far to call them dogma.

Why is your race or racial identity important?

youre projecting is so strong i can smell it burning through my moniter.

i never justified capitalism or demonized it. and progression is not the same as arguing the same, tired shit you seem to believe in. i would rather live in a well governed dictatorship than a poorly governed democracy, and vice versa. wouldn't any sane person?

This.
The only group of people that this won't work on are those who hold philosophies with principles at a logical extreme level that are already likely to the philosopher's own personal detriment (Anarcho-Nihilists, Egoist-Anarchists, Anarcho-Capitalists).

race plays a part in group dynamics. birds of a feather flock together, that kind of shit. and group dynamics is ultimately what makes or breaks states and governments. so race plays a part i would imagine.

Well forgive me for thinking you were a lolbert trying to justify capitalism, maybe don't use that flag and I won't pair your statements with your flag and arrive at the logical conclusion. I'm curious as to what you think I'm projecting…

It depends - how do you define a "well governed dictatorship". I imagine I would be at the whim of the dictator, whereas at least in a democracy I can form an opposition.

Oh.

a dictatorship with a well-meaning dictator can pass reforms that are for the betterment of society very quickly and more efficiently than any democracy ever could. so i think there are merits to dictatorship, just as there are negatives. i dont want to fully condemn one system over another just because marx or hitler or some other fag wrote a book on why their system is the best.

i get why lefties love the left because there are good parts to it that, if enacted, could benefit society as a whole. however, even if your "perfect" system came into existence it will be prone to the shortcomings of the system itself as well as the people taking part in that system. I just see extremism as a folly for small minded thinkers. whether you are or not i dont know i dont know you.

btw i only use snek because i like the idea of individual liberty and imo its a cool flag design, regardless of its origins.

i guess what i mean is that ideologies are all a means to an end – that being a way to govern that fits your ideal system in mind. i dislike the fact that we all partake in this political spectrum so we are all just divided and spewing info in our own echo chambers (pol, leftypol). i want progression as much as the next person but i feel progression would be throwing away this whole paradigm that we need to filter ourselves from information because it subscribes to a side of the spectrum you view as "other." maybe you see this opinion as cowardice but i see it as being open to change regardless of its origin.

I disagree. I think a dictator in a class society will always act in the interest of the upper class.

Politics doesn't end just like history doesn't. I think you should read some of the text on Leftism before dismissing it because it's radical.

I'm personally not open to change from the far right as I would most likely be murdered or deported because of my ancestry, and I'm pretty fed up with centrism. I can provide you with some books if you want to read. I have some good into texts.

Sorry to butt in but why do you believe this?
Also you said "read a book" twice in this post. It comes across as pompous.

when i said "end" i didnt mean a literal end, i meant a goal reached through a "means" being a process.

this is the definition of dogma, my friend.

its that paranoia that keeps people from looking into new ideas, however, i agree there are some things like killing that should be avoided at all costs.

sry you feel that way leftyanon.

Because the history of the state as it stands now was to serve the ruling class. From Rome to now, the State has been the violent arm of the elites.

Did you catch the flag?

Name me one benevolent dictator in a capitalist country.

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obviously you can argue against any example i give because no one person is perfect, but i can name a couple who have done good things in the past.

All these men did some great things in their time.

lol

nah fam, it's much easier to throw you in a gulag or execute you tbh.

where does this idea come from that you're a liberal if you prefer other methods to violent confrontation? liberals themselves have no qualms over violence

because I am young 2bh

I am not spoending my life in jail or killed when I am still young, I have anime to watch and books to read

You specified "dictator". You didn't talk about secret state elitists from Roman times.

Right here is a real nigger.

I'm sorry, but I can't take this seriously. Are you trying to tell me that Suleiman who presided over a population that consisted of nearly 1/5 slaves, Louis XIV who was a king in a feudal era and a Roman dictator weren't serving the interest of the ruling class? I didn't ask if they had accomplished great military feats nor economic or cultural, I asked for a dictator in a class society who did not repress the lower classes when they stirred.

I find it funny that you'r criticizing me for spewing dogma when you say:
Which is dogma I've heard a million times over.

Did the concept of a dictator not originate in ancient Rome?

real talk fam

why aren't the 70-80' year olders revolutionaries doing their duty right now?

we should make a revolutionary duty, tat once you become 75 years old you are oght to commit terror acts against the capitalists sytem, every year, hundreds of revolutionaries could bring the system down to it's knees

Whatever political or social ideology you subscribe to, I think it's reasonable to believe that somebody is, has, or will manipulate large amounts of people into thinking a certain way, in order to reach a certain state of a society from which they can take advantage. Additionally, most in power (through control of information, economics, and actual politics) are programmed to buy into the political correctness doctrine, and largely don't care about the average person.

youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2fMeer5Mw

Beretta Bernie
That site though.

The thing is drastic changes don't happen overnight. Whether you like it or not there are things you can't change on a whim when you have absolute political power no matter what. This is why all your "visionaries" who accomplished nothing but bloodshed envisioned only revolution being the absolute way to change. Revolution does make change but it's brute force, and even when you subjugate a state by brute force there will be reactions to it after the fact that you must oppress the same way as a "bourgeois" would or let them take power once more and change it back to the horrors of classism you love to speak of only happening under a capitalist or whatever system you want to talk about that isn't your chosen one.

I would like to buy into leftism, but nobody has managed to convince me that it is the best method of control and management between humans.

At the en of the day, all I care about is not living in a shithole, being allowed to say and think what I want, not dealing with SJW's who want me dead, and the preservation of my culture and "people", because I care about those things and don't want to die off or forced into someone elses culture.

Actually Marx was not opposed to a democratic path to socialism, they thought a revolution would be necessary in certain situations and some not.

I didn't know that the Revolutions didn't change anything. Even if it wasn't good change in the case of the Russian and Chinese revolutions it certainly resulted in change. The American and French revolutions both resulted in a systemic upheaval that became permanent so I don't see how that's applicable.

If you understood how Marxist defined class (which you would if you asked for the books I offered you) you would know they define class in terms of property. Who owns what we use to produce our subsistence, and the tools for the the production of that subsistence. The idea is that by abolishing the ownership of that sort of property you abolish class. If everyone owns those things equally, no one can despotically rule over the workers. Now I'm not someone who thinks socialism is to pure to fail, but I hardly see how someone is small minded for advocating fundamental change instead of new coats of paints for the path to progress.

Why?

No one is against that, I don't want to flood the West with niggers - I want to increase the material conditions of where the niggers live. The idea is that if you increase material conditions all the economic immigration we see will slow, and eventually stop.

How?

Stopping exploitation of their countries for cheap labour would be a start.

yeah change, but not the elimination of "class" or, in non-left speak, unequal distribution of power. that isn't change in terms of marxism.

even they themselves exploited their own people. the fuck dude?

That would make the material conditions for Africa better in the long run? Stopping cheap labor?

Yes, for commodities and such to be sent abroad.

I think I'm beginning to see the problems with capitalism, (at least what capitalism we have now), and the positives leftism a bit more. But how do you propose to implement all of this? The left no longer belongs to people like you, and even if you could push it further, I think we'll just end up in Brave New World.

This is where population control is really the only sane option. You can send less aid to Africa, and use contraceptive/legislative measures to keep the birthrates as low as possible, slowly phasing them into a much lower population that can be looked after easier and less exploited. That's better than the inevitable famines or perpetuated hellhole they live in, it's also better than genocide which is bad for obvious reasons.

so… trade? you realize this is a non-argument?

the only way that happens is if you make it equally shitty everywhere in the world. and that will never happen because land simply isnt made equal. resources don't have the luxury of being placed in an algorithmicaly perfect distribution.

If that's how you want to categorize trade. Seems rather unsavory.

Works for me.

better than Porky's world

you are incredibly fucking stupid, I hope you one day understand how fucking stupid you are so that you can stop being this utterly stupid

how bout you end my stupidity right now and explain to me how all land is equal and we just need to "redistribute material" to fix all our problems?

Read this then.

The evidence shows that democratic workplaces are more productive than top-down capitalist businesses. Democracy works.

the idea of not having enough resources is competly irrelevant because we can produce enough food right now to feed the entire population of the world and if we couldn't we can simply engage in nataility control by only having one kid by couple, which would drop the population by half, besides, you are coming from the idea that land has an owner and that only the spook concept of a nation can make use of the land inside the spook concept of borders, alas if the arable land is outside your borders, you cannot make use of it, which clearly is fucking retarded

whcih is literally fucking irrelevant, are all the goods consumed by you produced in your backyard? no? thats right, we humans developed methods of transportation in order to come up with the logistical problems of our environment

please kid, stop being stupid

No borders are the goal, they aren't the mean. It's a long process and it begins with stopping the exploitation of those countries for cheap labour and resources.

Council communism.

On population control I agree that will be something that will need to be done, I don't see it being possible in capitalism. Capitalism thrives on an expanded population - more people means the demand curve shifts right. I don't necessarily agree on stopping all aid to African countries, I do agree with educating people about birth control and contraception.

so its equally easy to provide food to siberian tundra as it is to provide food to people in proximity to farmland? because even with our technology that is not the case.

stopping exploitation means equalizing everyone's material power. and not everyone can own a temperate beachfront property(the beach being the most valuable material in land), border or not, because i dont think 6-7billion people can all find enough viable beach property on the planet to do so. when population density becomes too high it causes unrest. how do you distribute land in your leftist paradise?

name a resource or commodity that would face "logistical" challenges that aren't somewhat put in place by the ruling class in order to profit from labour

desalinization plants powered by liquid salt nucealr reactors

pre-manufactured modules on an assembly line that can be shipped using electric trucks powered by nuclear powerplants

Hydroponic manufacture using electricty prodivded by said nuclear powerplants, harvested by machines

a machine capable of manufacturing clothing without the need for manual labourers was announced some months ago, cotton can be grown hydroponically, harvested by a machine

come on, stop being stupid

I will literally piss on your kind's grave once the revolution begins

"easy" in what sense? cost effective, no its not cost effective, logistics? planes

except it is, we can deliver a hundred tonne nucealr head to every point of earth, and you belive we can't do air drops for people living in mongolia or africa?

you are fucking stupid kid

top kek

imfuckingplying not owning a beachnfront property is exploitation

you don't distribuite land, because property is theft

No, it means abolishing private property.

so where do you live in this utopia?

That type of individualism is a spook.
Stirner is less about individualism, and more about "owness". Understanding yourself better as an individual makes you a better asset to the group, essentially.

in a house occupied by me that stops having an owner once I die???

so what are you owning? i thought property is abolished in this utopia.

I own everything , I even own you, my property

on a more serious note, you don't own the highway or the public bus you make use of, same with a house, it was provided by the automation system, no reason why you would get to keep it if you move or something

isn't it effectively the same thing? without private property you equalize everyone to owning nothing, which is equal material power is it not?

what would prevent the demand of the nicer houses being greater and thus the occupants being perceived as having more wealth than others? also, in this paradise, are all houses made equal as well?

why would we have to prevent said demand? the demand would be controlled by the ability of the machine to produce said commodities

if you chose to have a house with two bedrooms when you had the chance to have one with four it was your choice, no one forced you

its not that easy kid, to begin with, the system would have to work parallel to the market economy, I get food, housing, clothes, water and other basic commodities from the automation system, and if I want a hand built rolex watch I take part in the market economy and exchange my labour for one, eventually, such exchange wouldn't be necessary as the machine would be able to provide said watch automatically

no user, you get to be the special snowflake faggot your mom always told you you were

It's the most significant and least malleable differential factor between people, and it's the most efficient means of group identification. Combine this with the fact that the overwhelming majority of the world population also aligns with racial identities, and that they are indifferent at best and hostile at worst towards other races, and the importance of racial identity is forced into my consciousness whether I like it or not.
Self-defense.

You need Jesus fam.

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No, the implication is that fascism is not a reasonable, rational philosophy that can be debated. He is implying that fascism was debated to death, it was beaten every time among reasonable people, but none the less, the movement grew.

I'm not sure why this is relevant. My chief political goal is to secure the existence and self-determination of my race and nation. Class conflict is secondary, unless the elites are actively involved in the destruction of the race/nation (like in the United States).

See

I'll take your word for it. I like to believe that I have a clear understanding of my motivations and political leanings. That's why I'm struggling to comprehend how any "deradicalization" program could succeed.

I guess that the question that I'm asking is if perceived self-defense (the most basic human instinct) is the primary reason for the adoption of white nationalist ideology, how could someone be "deprogrammed"?

Read Stirner

or eat a bullet

No because if your reading comprehension wasn't terrible you would've seen me explain the differences between property for production which should be socially owned and personal property that shouldn't.

Then you don't understand what destroys your """"""race"""""". Fascism is a religion.

Tell me this, because I'm really quite curious.
Just how much are you itching to retaliate..?

So is communism

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Because caring about others based on their fucking colour is retarded

Then what do you want us to do? m8?

You and your sons will be send to die in wars against "the enemy" while a small subgroup of your race enjoys the fruits of your fight and fucks your daughters. They will continue to exploit you and enrich themselves just as they do not, but now, if you try to unionise, you will get killed for being a unionists and "enemy of the people".

What you should be doing is removing the ruling class that is exploiting you and your future children. This will give you and your family more power over your own destiny, allow you to improve labour conditions, get more wealth, not die in wars and be healthier and happier. You will be able to focus your labour and willpower on improving the lives of your fellow [insert whatever racial group you identify as] man and yourself, instead of enriching just a few of your fellow somegroup-men at the top, while you struggle on.

There's a difference between viewing Soros as a contributing factor in worlds events and viewing him as the agent of modern history. Holla Forums falls into the latter category.

you're reeeeeeally stretching what Holla Forums believes. Soros the evil villain is a meme, about a man that pushes values and politicians they hate.

do you guys believe that there is a cabal of powerful Bankers that hate goyim? White nationalism is a defence against the talmud, the only defense we have since Christianity is partially enslaved to them.

Holla Forums is an imageboard of peace

Soros is a meme being spouted by Alex Jones in an attempt to mask the doings of other billionaires imo. The only reason why it's being pushed is because I think Soros frightens the older money.

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The Talmud is piece of garbage though. Anyone who seriously follows it wouldn't have a place in the revolution. That user is a fag though, the WN "leadership" is filled with the same people he hates.

what did you mean by this, user

Soros is mentioned prominently in the podesta emails

And those prominent mentions all seem like that of a concerned lobbyist than a contriving mastermind that Holla Forums makes him out to be. I haven't read all 300 or so Soros related emails that wikileaks has, but you're free to link a smoking gun that shows he is what people like Alex Jones says he is.

For every time I see George Soros mentioned I wonder why they don't care equally about say, David Koch.

Hmmmm…interesting….

it really stimulates some neurons

George Soros is very loud while David Koch is very quiet, probably because he's an assassination attempt survivor.

go start your beloved revolution then champ

WE ARE GOING TO BUILD A FENCE AND THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT! XDDDDDDDD

MAGA

So pathetic yet so typical, you commies have no creativity so you resort to imitation.

that pic is very accurate

Nigger are you aware that Pepe was created by a d*generate queer and bandied about between Holla Forums and /r9k/ for literal years before Holla Forums finally picked up the scraps? You've been eating out their sloppy seconds this whole time.

As it happens, this is the case for every Holla Forums meme. Unlike the other boards, there's not a single original one. Holla Forums at least has Porky, Posadism, Hoxha and so on and so on. *sniff*

unironically kill yourself

Good to hear

I am sorry to break it to you, bud, but you have severe autism. Your precious hitler would have made you into charcoal

Your so beloved "race" is a mutt of the modern homo sapiens and the neanderthals, so your premise of wanting to keeping it pure is failed from beginning. There isn't any hard line that separates a race from another, that's why modern scientists affirm that the casual definition of "race" is a too vague concept to be actually useful or meaningful.
If after knowing this you want to keep worshiping your imaginary brotherhood composed mainly of people who don't even know you nor give a shit about you, it's your problem, i don't care. And tbh i don't care about class that much neither, i'm an individualist who frequents this board because unlike Holla Forums, you can have actual discusion and you won't get banned for pointing to facts.

People form the same ethnicity, not even race, but same ethnicity killed each other over feudal disputes, religion ideology and so on. Your idea and classification of race didn't even exist before the XVII-XVIIIth centuries.
I'm afraid you have a serious case of feels>reals here.

Source? Thought that meme was disproven.

Soros exists, he's a powerful lobbyist like the Koch Brothers, but he's not the puppetmaster right wingers try to portray him as. He's just one of many powerful moneyed influences on the United States government. He's one oligarch among many, not high king of all the lizard people.

Are you this fucking new? I remember when people just called him sadfrog and he was best friends with Wojak.

nature.com/nature/journal/v524/n7564/full/nature14558.html

Why destroy hierarchy entirely because the current one is garbage instead of purging the current one and creating a better one? Hierarchy works, moreso if the leaders aren't cunts (and it has to be that way, checks and balances only slow down the corruption–if you could find a way to get a few Batmans into leadership positions you'd be set)

Not OP but a nationalist as well here.
I've read Stirner and I don't see how his thought invalidates nationalism. So what does Holla Forums have to say about it?
Not every concept or idea is a spook, though.

Nationalism effects owness, so yes, it is a spook