The liberals are communists

why do people believe this ?

Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/06/09.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
myredditnudes.com/

Because they're uneducated or stupid.

Poorly funded education

Cold war era propaganda

Took too many Alex Jones vitality pills

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Nobody actually cares about using correct terms other than (pseudo-)intellectuals too immersed in pure ideology.

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Were you one of those faggots who kept using the word 'literally' as something to describe literally the opposite of it?

It's not that "people as such" think libs=coms, it's due to Holla Forums's asshurtery coming here and attacking its paradoxical enemy: liberalism, idpol (without realizing they are part of it), academism (intellectualism itself), feminism, socialism (=big guermand), communism, cultural marxism, etc.

Our duty now is to make clear our radical position. While Trump suddenly says that Hillary is a totally nice person, we should affirm our non-compromising position: terror against the ruling class, all power to the working class, we want to take their hoarded shit for the benefit of the "ordinary person," and establish a radically different order.

TL;DR: Holla Forums: dumb; NO COMPROMISE ON OUR SIDE!

Not knowing what the word Liberal actually historically entails

Not knowing what the word Communist actually historically entails

Yeh most of the world cares about using the correct terms.

Its how we have accurate and insightful discussions.

If communism and liberalism can be lumped in the same section of your mind you are at worst completely ignorant and at best entirely lacking nuance to your thinking

What makes you think I'm not a (pseudo-)intellectual getting worked up by pure ideology?

That reminds me. They called me a liberal too (after I got banned again).

This was a very surreal experience.

Becuase a lot of Liberal THINK they are Communists. :^)

MEANWHILE

they openly defend class society, priv. property, "free trade," and capital.

"I'm a Socialist guys, I want well funded public services and a welfare state. What? Workers control over the means of production? No I'm not a Communist"

Either that or you get a bunch of people thinkinng that a high tax, unionised economy is Communism or something. They really need to pick up a book.

fixed

Because modern idpol is essentially a distortion of a distortion of Marxist radical collectivism and capitalists aren't generally scrupulous enough to care about the difference, even though it's patently obvious that idpol is easily manipulated by capitalism.

I don't know if you're quoting someone else or if this is your actual opinion.


pic related?

i was quoting someone i may be a tankie but i'm not an idiot

Cold War propaganda.

yes, really.

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They believe this because they want to. That way they can relate someone calling them racist on twitter to Stalin killing a bajillion people and cultural Marxism undermining Western Civ, and feel better about their poor oppressed selves.

While we believe capitalism and fascism are related.

Fascists are unable to explain how capitalism is different from fascism without resorting to feels > reals arguments

How postmodern and deconstructivist of you.

Further proof that the aut-right only differ from SJWs in terms of aesthetics.

Absolutely disgusting

Trump is an opportunist, and also kind of a fucking moron, but he is certainly surrounding himself with neofascsists.

Steve Bannon being the devil on Trump's shoulder should scare the shit out of everyone.

Almost any misunderstanding about socialism can be traced to one thing:

AMERICA

Thank 20th century, it ruined everything.

it doesn't matter if they are normie liberal baby boomer or crazed conservacuck, either way we will put them in the gulag.

Because you let them hijack the language, hijack the culture, hijack the narrative, and, in that process, drape themselves in "leftism."

I thought you Tankies supported all of this.

An american friend of mine told me that Clinton is actually a Marxist

This. Fucking sick of being told I must "love hillary" because I hate Clinton & Trump equally. Why can't people accept that someone could dislike both?

idiotic tankies do but NK is a shit and so is ba'athist iraq (also syria)


hell the us and ba'athist iraq were good buddies for a while

Because the two have the same ideological roots.

Right wing/conservative ideologies have the essential argument that boundaries and distinctions are good, that individualism is good, and that distinct social and economic classes are both inevitable consequences of differentiation among individual abilities and desireable in that they dovetail with natural human tendencies (tribalism, family affiliation, etc.)

In brief, right-wing and capitalistic ideologies work with human tendencies and the human condition. Remember that the complete protean state of man is capitalistic. There was no Elysian era where all men shared their possessions according to their need & existed without class distinction. Even on day one of the human race, the bigger/smarter/tougher guy would naturally gain an advantage in possessions and power over his fellows.

All capitalism does is acknowledge that all systems must be built upon the foundation of our species natural tendencies; all right wing ideology does is adhere to the basic tenets of human nature, individualism, etc.

Socialism and leftism and liberalism all essentially argue that collectivistic and "egalitarian" tendencies are preferable, despite their complete opposition to natural human social tendencies, and that all deviation from an irrationally based platonic ideal of a "healthy society" must be forcibly extinguished, generally at the cost of individual freedom and dignity.

The founding premiss of communism or leftism is, "Assume that human beings don't have human natureā€¦" and go from there.

And that is why you are doomed to fail.

Forever.

so was the soviet union after the social democrat clique murdered Stalin and made stupid shit up like "peaceful coexistende", faggot

solidarity is not limited to ML beacons of success
these places are still antiimperialist nationalists with socialist movements strongly involved in their defence, the syrian communist parties are in the National Front and heavily criticized Assad, doesn't mean you gotta buy into the western liberal imperialism and their ultraleftist radical kindergartners apologetic rhetorics

People lived in primitive communism for 50 times as long as we've had class society faggot. Shove it up your ass.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

because they agree with you 90% on everything except for economics policies

Huh, damn, human nature, huh, I never thought of it that way, wow, I better become a neocon now.

I like this one. Never seen it before.

When will you retards come up with better buzzwords?

Holla Forums needs to leave. If you don't accept or aren't willing to accept that communism and socialism at their very heart are economic focused ideologies rooted in the class struggle then you have no business being on leftypol

the irony.

Because normies don't know what communism is. I was watching BBC earlier, and apparently, every authoritarian country is communist.

Second paragraph of the manifesto:
The Cold War certainly exacerbated this but it isn't a new phenomenon.

Socialist/communist ideologies have the essential argument that class struggle is an inevitable outcome of differentiation into classes. Class struggle is a common tendency throughout society however, liberal / conservative ideologies deny this natural tendency in favour of class colloboration. Liberals tell the masses not to engage in class strugle because of identity politics and conservatives and right wingers deny class struggle and they believe the mythology that the bourgiosie support the interests of whatever group they are a part of rather then doing what makes the money.

The founding premise of liberalism or conservatism is "Assume that human beings don't have a class" and go from there.

And that is why you are doomed to fail.

Forever.

As usual, rightcucked Americans simply think everyone who isn't exactly like them is a Portland hipster

the ABSOLUTE worst shit I see Americans post on /int/ and Holla Forums is 'Haha how is that socialism working out for you, europoors?'

ctrl+w

No, it's because communism is your ultimate manifestation, that's what liberal cuckoldry leads to, this would be obvious to you were you not an idealistic bitch ass white boy from the suburbs.

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Sure showed him with your smug anime girls. Truly if what he was saying was just that retarded, you would easily be able to prove him wrong, yet of course, in your fight against identity politics, you have to show how much you are like everyone else by not actually arguing with him, but by spamming memes. How can Holla Forums ever recover?

Here, how about this. I'll give you another chance to prove how he is wrong, deal?

You're a fucking retard. That's all.

Liberalism doesn't seek the abolition of capitalism, nor does it take a materialist approach to issues, nor does it seek the abolition of identity.

Liberals just want a socially egalitarian capitalism, they are not socialists or communists.

Liberalism and Communism are not even close to being related
One respects the free market
The other doesn't
Liberalism also supports states and Private Property
Communism is stateless and has no Private Property

Made it real simple for you

You know I'm a different poster altogether, right?
Also, explain how the status-quo of the democrat voter base isn't essentially the same version of Holla Forums, yet just not familiar with the talking points and philosophy behind the ideas? You say how much you are against identity politics, yet here Holla Forums sits, trying to unite the "workers of the world" against the "bourgeoisie". Sound familiar? The fascists want to unite the "people" against "the Jews"? The neo-cons want to unite "the nation" against "the evil forces of communism"? But no, of course, Identity politics can only apply to other ideologies and not our own special brand of communism!

You are exactly what you hate.


Yet one leads to the other. They are not directly socialist, they are not directly communist, but they lean in the same way, which can shift the overton window TOO communism, TOO socialism. Liberalism is the first step too the other more leftist ideologies, as is basic-bitch conservatism the first step towards the end goal of either anarcho-capitalism, or monarchism/fascism/ or some form of extreme authoritarianism.

Overall, it is NOT communism. It is NOT socialism. It is just a lite, easier version to consume for the voter-base to munch on.


Read the above. One ends in the other through the overton-window.

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Look! I can misrepresent the opposing side as well!

Maybe you should read more about Communism, friendo

Communist Manifesto:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

Value, Price, and Profit:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm

Capital:Chapter I:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm

Critique of the Gotha Programme:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/

Draft of a Communist Confession of Faith:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/06/09.htm

The Principles of Communism:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

"READ LE BOOK"
Not an argument. Address the issue I brought up.

Class is not an identity. How you relate to the means of production is objective, regardless of your personal feelings on the matter or whatever lineage you were born from.

That fascists and neokeks want to unite people against a common enemy isn't a bad thing, it's the enemy they want to unite against that doesn't make sense.

Liberalism operates on a different theoretical basis of communism. Left liberalism simply argues that things like racism are unnecessarily oppressive and unfair (what some liberal writers call "bad inequality"), and that a certain degree of Keynsian wealth redistribution is necessary to keep capitalism functioning. The central tenet of communism is the abolition of capitalism, liberalism doesn't have this, it just supports a slightly more sustainable model of capitalism coupled with social liberal ideas of racial/gender equality.

Stalin killed 3 million anyway.

Oh, but class is an identity. People identify each-other as rich, poor, middle class, etc. When you where in school, there was the dirt poor kids, the middle-class average students, and the rich kids, in most cases. These people usually hanged around there own kind, rather if they knew it or not, observed it or not. The poor people always hanged around other poor people because they IDENTIFY with each other. Same case for the middle class and richer kids. The working class, by the way, does not want your revolution. They want capitalism, they want nationalism, they want anything other but your system as the elections show. This ties back into Liberalism being the same as socialism. Yes, there is differences, of course that's the case. And then there is some absolute similarities. Once again, stepping stones. You can't just go full socialism without an outright overthrowing of the government, and that's what liberalism provides. A way to slowly grow up to socialism.

Also, uniting against an enemy is never a bad thing. That's how ideologies have to work in order to get any traction: They have to paint things white and black, good and evil, and Communism, despite you and the rest of Holla Forums saying that it isn't the same, that it isn't identity politics in the form of class warfare, does it.


Once again, stepping stones. As I detailed in my reply above, you need to grow to the level of socialism or communism, and liberalism is the start of it. The seed, even.


I don't have much care for the alleged atrocities Stalin has commited anyways. There is to much unreliability to judge the true, actual number that Stalin killed, that is, if he killed millions of people at all. Same case as the Holocaust, in my opinion. Of course lots of it is true, but how much is false?

theirs no doubt both are on the "left" but to say "Communism=Liberalism" is an overstatement

Yes I identifyi as a polygamous, non-gendered rich landowner, despite being a poor whitemale

That is my identity, better get it right sinner, just because I dont have a mansion doesnt mean I dont identify as a mansion owner


Fucking dumb cunt

kek

its true though

Which has nothing to do with how you relate to the means of production, it's purely arbitrary. "Class" meaning income bracket is a purely cultural phenomenon, it is irrelevant to political theory.


They made friends of the same income bracket because they lived close to each other and knew each other outside of school, you retard. You must be high if you think kids give a shit about how much their parents make.


They just didn't want Clinton and got baited by populist rhetoric from a TV star that knows what people want to hear.


Bull fucking shit. You think they are similar because you do not understand either and likely only think in terms of generally advocating gender/racial equality or something. Liberals have always been defenders of capitalism and opponents of our views. There is no "slippery slope".

They do not believe what we do. This is a fact, whether or not you disagree.

Prove this

You can identify as working class if you are working class, just like how you could identify as upper class. But it stops there, with personal identification. You can believe you are upper class while living in your trailer all you want, objectively you are not upper class.
I can identify as (insert gender identity here) because no one can say there hold the objective truth over my consciousness. However if I work a shitty 9-5 job, I could identify as Bill Gates all I want, but this would be objectively untrue because all someone would need to do is see my paychecks to see my life is hard.

At the core of liberalism is maintaining the status quo with light, ineffectual changes depending on how social norms evolve. This is literally the opposite of destroying the system; they are its biggest defenders, because they want to fix what they perceive to be flaws in the system to make it last.

I never said that communism = Liberalism. I'm just here to tell you guys why people think it.


Epic meme.


What is true? The strawmen? Both have no merit, as I never heard a Trump supporter say that leftists are cucks simply because they want a strong rulership.

I simplified what I was trying to say with the use of "poor" "middle class" and "rich". It's just a way I made it easier to make my little comparison.


Don't even try. School is all about signalling social status, and that's where the divide comes in place. Don't bullshit me when you say that kid's don't care what others make. Say for example, you can't afford a smart-phone. No way in hell are the rich and middle-class kids EVER going to accept you. Also, the case of them knowing each other outside of school is also pretty false, seeing as how a city with all strata of people is usually fairly large, the chance of all the poor kids living around each other is extremely unlikely, even if they all live in ghettos. Same applies to the others.

Hold on a second. So you are telling me that you want to start the little worker's revolution without the use of populism? That the left got over-ran with there own rhetoric? The left should be saying the things people want to hear if it wants any chance at all. The fact that nationalism and tarriffs and walls is what the working class wants to hear, then the left has failed. They lost entirely if there main demographic outright abandoned them for "populist" rhetoric.

They do not believe what we do. This is a fact, whether or not you disagree.

Once again, ever said you all believe in the exact same thing, and there IS a slippery slope. You just can't see the slope because you already slid down it without realizing. Liberalism is a gateway to socialism, and both stem from the same ideological thought of equality.


Observe the life of you and leftists around you. Where did you first start off? Baby steps. You where probably socially liberal in highschool, and then when you hit higher education, you got egged on by a professor to read more into leftist ideology, which led you to some form of socialism, communism, or I guess in your case, anarchism. I call it the peaceful transition to a socialist country rather then one requiring death, a tactic used by the left. Boiling the frog, as it where.


When I say identity politics, do you think I'm talking about the Attack Helicopter crowd? They are only the extreme of it. Identity is what a person considers themselves as. There is no Bill Gates-kin or Burger-Flipper-Bill-kin. It's just the same as identifying as a ethnicity. "I am German, as I have German ancestors." "I am Black, as I am a native from Africa." "I am rich, as I have 3 cars and a 6 million dollar mansion." "I am poor, as I have a 5 dollar bill and a cardboard box.".


Read above. It's boiling the frog. That's what the system is, but what the system is is different from what the people who control it. They are just using Liberalism to get to there hopeful Socialism. If a country had a few political parties, but none where socialist, of course you would support the one that holds your closest views, and that's what liberalism is. A easy, chewable form for the masses. It doesn't serve as the be-end all ideology. You can destroy the system from within, and that's what liberalism can provide. Trojan horse.

sage for gulagposting

so your agreeing that class is not an identity in terms of what we would call "idpol" or "attack helicopter crowd" but an objective and divisive fact of capitalist society that one can identify with

so do you.

I thought you people said identity politics is the same as identifying as a race, like whites, which is of course a real and true identity, rather then the attack helicopter crowd. Identifying you and others as white and benefiting that specific group of people is identity politics, or what it should be. Attack helicopter is the extreme.

Most of the world doesn't care about having accurate or insightful discussions.

People still use the left and right labels to everything and don't understand ideologies very well at all. Which isn't surprising considering how crappy education at the high school level is and how the books contain many inaccuracies or skip over fairly important parts.

Europe's definition of socialism: terribly high taxes, healthcare prices through the roof, more money to EU

I identify as a landowner. Pay your rent or I'm calling the cops to evict you.

Burgers, and defective induction.