Any french comr8s here?

Any french comr8s here?

Give us the insider view on French politics, Le Pen and the french Left. Why are you guys apparently next on the Nationalist bandwagon?

Other urls found in this thread:,_2017

Look at their flag. Notice anything?

Also, is this qt as bad as her family?,_2017
Because this.

Same story like everywhere else in Europe.

Mass immigration policies coupled with the focus on idpol alienated the working class from the traditional left which is now turning to the extreme right.

Are you assuming or are you from France?

Because yeah, I know how it usually goes but I'm afraid to make assumptions because Mélenchon seems actually pretty cool

is there even a traditional left in europe to turn away from? in france at least? PS isn't leftist

I wish our protestors were as hardcore as the french

Can people please stop using relative terms like they are somewhat absolute? Leftist is everything that is left to the respective political center instead of what is left to your own political perspective.

In Spain there is.

It very much is.

Oh come on, all those sold-out pseud-left parties are absolute bs. Sure they're left of the center, except the center has gone to what 30 years ago would have been the far right ffs.

not from the leftist perspective. i don't subscribe to the mainstream interpretation of politics, and i won't humour it

so they oppose hierarchy and capitalism and plan to eliminate those things?

You don't know what fucking Left and Right mean, you moron.

These are not fixed abstractions with values that are inherent to them, but an axis that is relative to a particular group and tradition.

The Nazis had their Left and their Right. Bolsheviks had their Left and their Right. Liberalism has its Left and its Right. The most right-wing groups and ideologies have a Left and a Right.

Parties like PS, Labour, Dems, and so on are not Socialists, but they definitely represent the Left of mainstream, democratic neo-liberalism, and this is more or less what most people mean by the term. These are mutable concepts, they're not going to stand through changing circumstances representing a fixed set of ideas.

That's the thing, the centrist neoliberals have failed the working class. Yet they can't see this blatantly obvious fact and try squash any genuine leftist opposition in an effort to keep themselves in power. This offers easy pickings to the far right, who actually strike at the disenfranchisement and seething resentment most working people have for the status quo.

Most obvious examples are Hillary blocking Bernie in the Democratic Party and Jeremy Corbyn being sabotaged by Blairites in Labour. I'm sure there's such incidents all round Europe.

They are centre-left at best and you know it.

i do. i just explained that i don't agree with the mainstream interpretation of the concept; the interpretation that you are so eager to defend. cry harder. i don't accept the notion of a "left wing nazi" or left wing liberal;" it's nonsense

Podemos is good ol' south american populism translated to Spain.

Not saying it's not better than PPSOE or anything because it really is.

They are not edgy enough, so it's be better to call them center-left

spoken like a true edgelord

Frog-eater here,
In a nutshell :
Jean-Luc Mélenchon = Bernie Sanders
Marine Le Pen = Donald Trump
Any candidate from Les Républicains/UMP or the Parti Socialiste = Hillary Clinton

So voting for the Parti Socialiste or Les Républicains (= voting for LRPS) would be the same : it would fuck france even more deeply

The only solutions are Marine Le Pen, but she is not really tolerant and a bit too extreme, or Jean-Luc Mélenchon which could be a very good president
Voting for Le Pen

I don't know why I wrote the last line, i haven't finished my sentence , i'm not voting for her

there's something extremely disgusting about this woman

She's the Hillary Clinton of Trumpism. You can't get much worse than that.

Happy to know this. I remember him standing up for Robespierre after Assassin's Creed portrayed him as a lunatic, and I've always liked him for that

Why doesn't New Anticapitalist Party or Workers' Struggle work with Left Front? Are there any animosities between them?

One word: Benoist

I have no idea, I didn't look much into these partys but their weight is near 0, they are not popular

What the left needs is a party that sticks solely to the economic and concerns of workers. They need to drop ALL this SJW shit completely. Why doesn't such a party exist?

idpol and liberalism are currently taking a pummeling worldwide

once the right wing fully asserts itself people will start to realise that the real struggle dwarfs gender pronouns and cultural appropriation

It doesn't seems like there are many partys supporting SJWs in France since they are extremely rare here compared to in the USA
Maybe Europe Écologie but they are utter shit

Maybe so. I don't know the situation in France that well. But if this is the case, you've had a 'socialist' government for the past 3 years or so right? Have they done anything in this time that would be considered solidly left wing?

The only thing that comes to my mind is gay wedding, maybe they did other lefty things but then I forgot about them

Ignorant burger here, given that France's president is elected via runoff in the event of a heavily contested election, does this reduce the "muh spoiler!" and "muh electability!" retardation that plagues American left-insurgent politicians?

Righteous catholic, "muh heterosexual muriage"
Has pic of her with neo-nazi and stuff like that(pic related)
Believes you're not truly french if you don't have shivers when talking about the coronations of Reims lol

Yes. Left here is pretty divided.
There is the Left Front of Melenchon who's united with the french communist party. They're a mix of a lot of things : class struggle, ecologic transition, new republic (with a constituante), lgbt/women rights/antiracism, standing with the Rojava etc…

New Anticapitalist Party is mainly trostkyists with a few tankies… yup.
Not a big party, focuses on worker struggle and strikes which isn't as popular as before in France

The "Toto" (Autonomes)
Not a party but is the most radical left here. Pretty young people, mainly in big cities where the demonstrations against the El Khomri law happened. Most of them don't vote

All of those peeps can't see each other.

Absolutely not. Full on neoliberal bullshit, slaves of the European Commission. Regarding economics they did nothing that wasn't liberal.

They're Trotskyists (I'm not actually very knowledgeable about it, but it seems that a number of parties under that umbrella throughout history have been minorities and retained a strong independence), and… I don't know, they just stick to themselves. NAP appeals to the youth and muslims a lot, and they regularly criticize Mélenchon, and the FDG before, especially for mostly sticking to electoral politics. Their 2007 leader and candidate Besancenot has a lot of charisma and that election put him in the spotlight and they got 4%, but his successor Philippe Poutou has none and got 1% in 2012 (plus Mélenchon got a lot of the votes, it seems people just aren't that radical). Besancenot is still regularly invited in the media despite admitting not to run or officially representing the movement anymore.
WS has no aura or appeal. They have been around 2% for decades, except a few times. From the outside they seem like extremely old-fashioned, rigid, dogmatic communists reciting mantras about the working class. Both identify as revolutionary.

Yes, the SJW/anti-SJW shitshow is not that present in France. In general I'd say public discussion is much, much more hysterical in anglo countries, but people and especially Americans don't want to see it. I would say there is more critical thinking in the average population, even if the general ideology is still neoliberalism.

What do you mean ? Can we have an upset at the presidential election ?

Yes. The president has a 4% approval rates, the PS is dead and all its voterbase is either turning towards Melenchon or the Republican Party (depending if more lib or more socialist)
Add to that the recent El Khomry law and that put Melenchon in the most dominant position he's ever been.

Right now there is a primary for the republican party. The favorite (Juppé) has an alliance with Bayrou, leader of the centrist party. If Juppé loses to Sarkozy, Bayrou will present himself at the presidency with Juppé as his prime minister, so the republican party voter base can be divided in two.

The Front National of Le Pen will make it to the second turn whatever happens. She's pretty dominant.

Hopes are that the destruction of the PS and a possible division of the Reps put Melenchon in the second turn. It's far fetched but possible

Sounds much better than here. Aside from upsets, are normalfags stuck in their ways and afraid to back politicians outside the centrists, or is the electorate highly mobile?

See this is kinda what I was getting at. They get their leftist credentials from IDPol bullshit. This IDPol bullshit alienates the working class as they're shouted down as bigots for questioning it.

better question is, why is gay marriage support considered a left wing position?

It's evolving slowly but getting better. Most normalfags were full on centrist but the terrorists attacks, the coming elections, the unemployment rates, the El Khomri law and the shit happening at an international scale pushed people outside of their confort zone, so more and more people are getting politically invested.
So it's not "highly" mobile but people are getting more and more radical in their ideologies (both right and left radicals benefit from it)

Right now the big questions are how much will the Trump election influence the Le Pen vote, will the Melenchon campaign will be successfull (since he's outside PS a Bernie-like popularity could push him to the second turn), and how big will the voter turnout be.

Because traditionally the right hold on to catholic values ?

so if a party was in support of all the usual neoliberal policies but also supported gay marriage, this would be considered "left wing"?

So the left defines itself as opposition to a puritan, catholic right? This would explain a lot tbh.

This shit triggered me.

He is full on socdem he said he was against marxism and all of its ideas. His political manifesto doesn't include even one anticapitalist policy.

I bet Sanders had more balls as a traditional socialist than a sjw party filled with trot opportunists

nah m8, don't worry, she can still be your qt waifu :^)

Well… Yes ? It wouldn't "be", but it would be "considered" left… Isn't Hillary considered considered left ? Because François Hollande is a liberal who supported gay marriage and for 4 years i've heard that the "LEFT" was in power in France

Didn't say that.

Yes, she's considered to be considered left, but nobody actually considers her left themselves.

that is my point. there's nothing inherently left-wing about pro-gay sentiment. in ancient greece and rome homosexuality was completely normal and unexceptional, not just 'tolerated,' yet those societies also practiced imperialism, militarism, slavery, and all kinds of horrors. should we therefore consider them "the left"?

i'm not saying that means leftists should take anti-gay positions, of course. i'm just saying that when i hear that someone is "pro gay marriage," nothing about that say "leftist." it's a non sequitur

clinton (and others like her) is considered the far left of american politics. this is one of our major challenges

No. pederasty was considered to be part of a young man's education. An adolescent sodomising his mentor was an abomination. No young man was supposed to do the fucking, no mentor was supposed to be fucked. You couldn't be in a relationship with an adult man while being adult yourself, you had to have a wife. It wasn't "normal and unexceptional".

The idea of gay couples, mariage, being openly gay-only is completely new on societies' scales.

"Leftism" is rather broad and while the most important idea is about workers' rights, it doesn't take away the fact that open homosexuality is historically related to the left.
Just because today the class struggle is inexistant is most of "considered left" ideology and because Holla Forums is trying to put it back at the top of the left's ideology pyramid doesn't change the fact that lgbt rights is a leftist issue

ok. but those societies were still very permissive sexually, and that permissiveness didn't correspond with their violence and imperialism. which is the crux of my point
in the western world, what "rights" do "lgbt" lack?

What can we do to fight rightists in france?

Absolutely, those societies shouldn't be considered left at all, but my point was that their vision of homosexuality was not the modern one, so I don't believe it has anything to do with if gay rights are a leftist thing or not.

If you want, I believe that historically in the 19/20th century idpol has a whole has been part of the leftism ideology spectrum and this is why is it considered a leftist belief

Not much, anymore. Nowadays they have it pretty good, but go back a few decades earlier and it wasn't the case.
In France up until the mid 70's it was still considered a mental illness.. And being openly gay is still difficult in the rural area where i grew up.

Do we have to ? My point is, is it really the priority right now ?
It's a heated debate in the leftist circles in Paris : Should we focus on fighting Action Française, the GUD, the Front National and other rightists org, or should we focus on shutting down once a for all the PS and try to unite the considered left around the class struggle and anticapitalism?

Wouldn't the first one be easier once PS is killed?

that's exactly my point. why should the pro-gay clinton or hollande be considered "the left" when their other views, policies and actions are are violent and imperialistic?
so why are we talking about it? then is not now. gays are no longer discriminated against. let's move on
and being an open communist or antinationalist is still difficult everywhere. that some people in some places still might not take kindly to gays is not an issue; the world is not a "safe space" in which you'll never have to confront people who might dislike or disagree with you

Aren't SJWs infamous among faggots for mirroring the behavior of religious fundamentalists by "domesticating" their sexual behavior?

Yes, but we need to help them to release that

Yes they do, they're clearly in favor of a secessionist referendum.

seconding these dubdubs.

don't trust much polls when it comes to far right, people tend to hide their views

So Le Pen is even stronger?

if i has to guess i'd say she has a 60% chance of getting there

Good. The sooner this happens the sooner people may wake up and discover that the true left is the only way.

not sure if having all the far right leaders in charge at the same time is a good idea.

Come on, WWIII isn't a good idea?

I don't get why you think that, what makes you think that we won't continue to be ignored?

i don't want to die virgin tbh

Allende was the only Marxist ever ellected in South America so the comparrison is correct.
Just another populist.

It's not thought, it's a "civil rights" issue, like people call it, the individual, natural freedom of deciding for one's body, a libertarian can defend that, a conservative can defend that. It is completely unrelated to the traditional leftist image of class struggle and worker's rights.
The fact that the unholy mutation that became the Post-Macarthy "New Left" held onto those causes doesn't make them a part of the movement as a whole, even less so of the new-old-Left that Holla Forums represents, you're letting yourself use the enemy's terms.