Is anyone else concerned about the pervasive anti-gun sentiment in the left and the pervasive pro-gun sentiment in the...

is anyone else concerned about the pervasive anti-gun sentiment in the left and the pervasive pro-gun sentiment in the right? like really concerned? i'm thinking this all has to be intentional on porky's part. like if any truly leftist revolution happens, porky will basically have an impromptu armed militia of millions pumped with centuries of furious rightist ideological indoctrination at their side to make sure these Job Creators aren't tread on.

ffs there were talks of the nra starting an uprising if clinton won (which could've been a good thing if it were done for the right reasons (lol)) and it really concerned me because yeah, i think in a revolutionary situation, the right is far more trained in weapons and military coordination etc. and would easily overcome whatever comparably small leftist revolution there would be considering most liberals wouldn't be willing and would probably flee to the right side if anything

are we fucked no matter what?

Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/oct/01.htm
thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/03/06/saiga-mk-107-the-civilian-ak-107-with-balanced-recoil-arrives/
law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311

Yes. I believe that people should be armed, less the state starts infringing on human rights.

This may make me sound like an American, but fuck it, I believe that people should have the right to bear arms.

yeah i'm pro-gun too, though in a different context. i think as it's used now, it only helps porky.

So what if you sound like an American?
The ideal of people being allowed to own guns is revolutionary regardless of the identity of who supports it.

The people who don't support it are doing so because they are afraid of gun violence, a non-issue. They are useful idiots and are putting the left at a disadvantage because of "muh shootings"

That's my take on it as well. Hunting rifles and handguns are worth jack shit in a military operation, and proper infantry weapons are either expensive or unavailable in most places.

A guy can learn to fire and clean a rifle in an afternoon. What is significantly more rare and valuable is a knowlege of infantry tactics. That is the sort of thing that is really only available to a soldier unless you can find a combat veteran who is willing to help.

school shootings and the like are obvious products of capitalism too lol and the outcome always further divides the gun control issue between repubs and dems. it's perfect for porky

well if my theory is true then we'd be even more fucked in that case

and my point is most leftists (using 'leftists' lightly here" have zero understanding of guns whilst it is an integral part of rightist culture. they definitely have the upper hand

*)

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/oct/01.htm

oh yeah thanks. i meant to ask if there were some early leftist writings about this

I would not be so sure about that. Combat veterans are a diverse lot, and there will be sympathizers. Of course, the rightists will have trainers from the establishment military training them, so leftist rebels will be at a disadvantage in that department.


Guns are not complicated. They do not require a tremendous lot of understanding, which is why they surpassed bows and arrows in Europe in the first place. Any cultural advantage is of little to no importance. What matters is infantry tactics, which all of the hunters and sportsmen know nothing about anyway.

I shit you not, I was getting a coffee from Starbucks drivethrough and the woman at the window started talking about how she bought a gun and was an anarcho-communist trying to convince all her liberal friends to do the same.

I really ought to go back there lmao.

marry her

I also think people should be able to have guns, but there needs to be basic restrictions.

That guy is going to be a communist Charley Day.

For real comrade go back and find that woman.

What restrictions? There is not much point to having a right to bear arms when those arms do not make for proper infantry weapons.

Mental health, background check

but class struggle creates mental problems and sustains criminality

...

...

That's fucking retarded. If you can't be trusted with a gun, you can't be trusted with being with the rest of the population.

...

Doubt that'd happen tbh. It's not Red Scare anymore.

What…? You're telling me an autistic kid should be put in a bin?

fucking kek are you serious? cant go anywhere else on any chan without the eventual Holla Forumsyp lecture about ~cultural marxism~ or whatever other made up thing about communism

I honestly wonder when the left started hating guns.
It was probaly turned into a partisan issue in order to divide and conquer by some nefarious group.

Rightwingers always laugh at liberal threatening revolution now because its like, i though you hated guns lol

Holla Forumsyps aren't normies

Rightwingers are super prepared for when shit hits the fan because they have a distrust for the government.
They have a gun culture, a survivalist culture, a millita culture.

All while liberals are like "eewww guns are icky" and live in the big city.


Like at most, a lefty will riot, and its usually in their own city and neighborhood, so no one cares, they attack randos on the street and destroy small business, while all the right wingers and capitalists are loling at them on the internet

Daily reminder that liberals aren't fucking left.

Try to explain that outside this place.

Mass shootings pretty much.

I have mixed views on Gun regulation, I believe that the working class should have access to guns, but I feel uncomfortable seeing people carrying them around in public and I don't think crazies should have access to them.

In my view gun laws are too lax, I would like mental health checks and training to be mandatory, but a lot of the gun shit is hysteria like "Assault rifles" when rifles are rarely used in shootings, but semi-auto handguns are.

that's my point tho. even if liberals are somehow converted to revolutionary far-leftism, they wouldn't have the means to truly liberate themselves anyway. whilst the rightists accustomed to pretending to like being exploited for 100s of years are more than ready for a revolution right now but if anything would only fight to maintain the status quo

yeah

it's why i just sigh whenever I hear someone say leftists want to confiscate weapons

I wonder if right wingers could be converted based on a shared love of arms?

you know what, maybe.

i'm thinking that deep down rightists know theyre being exploited and know that these things that they pretend are inalienable rights are really only maintained through state coercion and that's really why they're so attached to guns and revolutionary fantasy

A "culture" is not worth shit. Training matters.

I don't know. The only right wingers that i can still talk with are libertarians, because at least we can agree that central government is bad.

you should pretty much be completely pro-gun or completely anti-gun imo

being anything else is pretty stupid, you gain all the downsides with none of the advantages of the other side of the argument

You are forgetting the factoid that most militia members are ex-military/leo. No matter how you spin it, the North American Militia Movement is not something you really joke about when talking about it seriously.

yes and they're old and fat trying to relive the glory days

they won't do shit except bitch and moan on the internet. at least leftists actually get out on the streets

It's to keep the working class down. A true leftist revolutionary movement should reject pacifism.

Starbucks is the place you go if you aren't familiar with the area's local coffeeshops and aren't willing to risk getting a shitty cup. But if you go to a Starbucks in your hometown or any other area you're familiar with you are a fucking pleb.

t. Seattlefag

i wouldn't have a problem with the pacifist agenda under a capitalist state if it didn't imply that you aren't already coerced by the state and that any revolutionary action against it is instigating the violence and not rejecting it

Is he going to try and kill someone? Then yeah. That doesn't mean the bin has to be a hellish existence. We can make things good under communism.

Liberal arguments for gun control are literally built on the ground of reactionary bullshit.

AK47s produced by worker Co-ops for all!

Pro-gun sentiments are great. The real issue is what they actually stand for in US politics; that is to say, they are a dog whistle for people to find others that agree with other, unrelated "conservative" talking points.

AK is kind of a shit rifle by modern standards, m8. You wouldn't suggest that we build Ladas, so don't suggest that we build AKs.

And don't forget the association Porky has between AKs and "the red menace". Psychological warfare is a great tool tbh.

Now that Trump is president, we should push gun ownership in the left.

Like they'd go for it, liberals are to gun rights what rightcucks are to climate change. They don't care about facts or reason, they have to hate it because their ideology says so.

Dude, modern guns will basically outlive you. AKs aren't the masters of reliability anymore, and I figure rounds on target is superior for generating fear. That and the AR is associated heavily with the average American. That's the American gun. They're also currently cheaper than a service-grade AK. You can get a nice AR for $500. I still want to own an AK, though.

Yep. Drip City, Biscuit Bitch, Stumptown, and Storyville beat the shit out of Starbucks.

Also, AKs are great for getting headshots while bunny-hopping.

wat

Are you teenagers?

I'm not saying one is better. I'm just saying it's no longer a rich man's rifle.

Has a drivethrough, three minute drive from my house, $2 cup of coffee. My local cafe is better to hang out at, but it's further and less convenient.

No one says it is, if anything there are some problems with quality control in the AR market if you don't know what brands to buy.

someone post the drake meme about marx and the 2nds amendment

delet this?????????

That's a shit rifle compared to other things the Ruskies built. Honestly, you should be hungering for pic related. AK-12 is playing catch-up.

they never made the 97 did they?

Talked to a guy at a hunting and hiking shop today. He estimated that I should use between 1776 (no kidding, by this moment's exchange rate) and 2370 dollars on rifle, scope, to have a decent beginners kit. I'll probably go for bean bag and suppressor, as I'll use the rifle for hunting as well as long range practical shooting. Will start saving up after Christmas when i get a "real" job. Can't wait! :D

Sounds like he was on commission. Even here in the UK you can grab a decent rifle or shotgun for around $200.

I'm a Norfag, and the store is a small business so their prices are above the large stores. Also this includes scope at least decent for 1000 meters. Anyway, I was just in to estimate a price, more research and price finding starts after Christmas.

It is an old Counterstrike joke.

The rifle I posted was actually accepted, but seems only for special forces groups. Now that Trump is president, you might actually have the chance to buy one. The A545 (new designation, also an A762) has balanced recoil that is a bit simpler than the AN-94 and does not have hyperburst. It also looks to be sturdier to mount optics to than the AK-12, and I like the irons better as well. The collapsible stock is a bit shit, but I'm sure that could be replaced by a folding stock or fixed stock. Pic related is another capitalist weapon that looks promising. The SCAR is also a good weapon, but it's a bit on the expensive side. The MSBS is supposed to be under 1.5k, some rumors have it under 1K, and yes, both of those are the same rifle in a different config.

You don't need to spend that much. Unless you want some kind of BCM+Aimpoint combo, but honestly while I think Aimpoints are good optics, they aren't strictly required. You also don't need a BCM, DD, or any of the higher-end brands. Just make sure you have good barrel steel that is also chrome-lined with proper parts. As long as you have that, any AR will do. DDI makes good AKs as well, but I've heard they use some parts from lower-end rifles. I don't own an AK, so do your research.

yeah but I am not american

I could get one illegaly, but I thats just giving porky excuses to jail me, thinking of starting a private security firm, but as a co-op

Where are you located, friend?

This HAVE to be a hunting rifle as I only have a hunting license (I can use it for practical long range shooting though), meaning bolt action only. As far as I remember the a rifle isn't that expensive but decent optics out to 1000m decent in dark, wet, and cold conditions will cost some.

Semi auto pistol, DA/SA revolver, and carbine comes when I get gun club membership.

Also even if the A-545 never makes it to the US, this:

thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/03/06/saiga-mk-107-the-civilian-ak-107-with-balanced-recoil-arrives/

Definitely will now, assuming Trump removes sanctions from Russia. Balanced recoil looks very tempting if it's reliable.

Ah, I see. You definitely can make a rifle that can go 1km for less than that, though, depending on gun prices. Before you make the choice, I recommend you watch the Sniper 101 series on YT. Mostly pay attention to caliber and rifle selection. Make sure you get yourself a spotting scope as well as a spotter to man that scope. You can do it yourself, but making a team is superior because you don't have to do firing solutions yourself. It's also easier to call wind like that. Ideally your spotter should be someone with more experience than you. There are lots of peripheral equipment for long-range shooting. A Kestrel is a good idea, as well as a rangefinder. Milling a target is cool, but you'll need more accurate measurements at long ranges. Make sure you learn to keep logs, and invest in good ammo. I'd start with a .308, simply because it's ubiquitous, and while calibers like .300 win mag are great, they are more expensive. Make sure you get a FFP scope with mill turrets and reticle(I recommend starting out with mil-dot). If you get one with an illum reticle, you can also later invest in a clip-on system for night use.

mexico

I've been watching THLR.NO at youtube. The guy at the store recommended a 6.5mm because of price here, though as for performance he seemed indifferent to 6.5, 30.06, or 308 as they all worked well for his use (hunting and within 1000m). Anyway, it's still at least two months and then a hunting rifle application away.

That's a damn shame, but I would tool up somehow anyway. Unfortunately it seems that you can't even own most common calibers in the US. Try to get fit anyway and train in tactics, even if you have to say "boom" to yourself while doing this. Even if you feel silly, you should know that the US Army regularly does dry runs like this for basic familiarization. There is no replacement for live fire, but if you can get GBB airsoft, you might learn a thing or two about basic weapon manipulation. Don't take it so seriously, and ignore the BB. Just imagine you're actually hitting targets at distance and maneuver accordingly. Get field manuals from the US. They are public and you should study them. Do not take them as gospel because they are right for the situation half the time and half the time will get you killed. Learn to read the situation.

I'm pretty sure private security here can own even auto rifles, I don't know if you heard about the "Autodefensas", basically a group of people got tired of the drug cartels and armed themselves, eventually the bourgy state ended up shitting everything up

however, with proper training and "legal" permit to operate, things would have been different

can get crossbows tho, so thats a plus, looking at getting a heavy one

6.5 Creedmoor is a very good round. If you want to spring for that, go ahead. Rule of thumb is this: spend more on the optic than the rifle, about 2x. The optic is what will do it for you. Just make sure you absolutely have a scope that tracks correctly. The clearest glass is useless if you don't track well. I wouldn't go into variable power until well after the 1K mark. Fixed power isn't bad at all.

Thanks! I haven't fired a gun since the G3 with drum sights in 2006 and have a lot to learn about bolt action and optics. Trying to absorb as much info as possible without it getting in the way of my academic work :D Hopefully leftypol will keep a gun thread.

Cool, so you already have experience. G3 is a nice rifle. Many hate the drum sights, but I like them. The G3 is also a more potentially accurate rifle given the right work.

It's the only rifle I've fired but I really like it. Very little recoil, effective at long range (around 500 meter for my part without scope), easy to maintain, and reliable as long as you don't go full auto in my experience. I found the drum sights very practical. Again, It's the only gun I've fired though. Actually I've also shot several thousand rounds with the MG-3.

With both guns I found combat shooting (time limit and magazine/belt change, after running) a lot easier than precision shooting. Don't know why. I never got more than average at precision shooting, but at combat shooting I was the best in my squad. Though I suck at close quarters shooting as I'm right handed but left eye dominant.

Anyway, can't wait to try bolt action and scope. Will hopefully do some big game hunting next autumn.

Not really. They mostly patrol the Southwest where most of their funding comes from Ranchers wanting to keep the cartels at bay.

Just backing up your points.

The total number of gun homicides by weapon type in 2015 were:

Handguns: 6,447
Rifles: 252
Shotguns: 269
Other guns: 171
Firearms, type not stated: 2,477

The obsession with banning "assault weapons" almost exclusively works to restrict semiautomatic rifles, which are already a subcategory of rifles, the least common type of gun (among those enumerated) to be implicated in homicide.

Either the people trying to ban them are literally retarded or the bans have intentions other than reducing gun homicides.

Yes, the capitalist government should totally be in charge of who is and isn't armed. Nice one, nigger.

Fuck gun control.

The idea of the right to bear arms is correct in the way not interpreted by most Americans.

The right to bear arms was included in the constitution, supporting the rights of statesmen to form militias based on preserving democracy from other nations. It was made to swell the population usable in war, like fighting against Britain and the Native Americans (Like N. Korea).

Although that being the original intention, I support the second amendment. Citizens need to be able to protect themselves against corrupt governments and criminals. Those that wish to take personal property, and personal freedoms.

I don't think, based on the current military-like police forces across the USA, gun ownership is really as effective as it should be.

The NRA is a disgusting organization, regardless of their stance on guns. They put their gun fetish above the well-being of the average citizens' freedom.

What is your opinion?

i think 'defense against criminals' is a weird reason for a leftist to be pro-gun considering capitalism creates criminals

this is part of my point. people are pro-gun for the wrong reasons

I wouldn't say greed and malice are completely generated by capitalists, but they greatly exacerbate the issue.

Rape, murder, and assault can occur without capitalism,

law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311

10 U.S. Code § 311 was created Aug. 10, 1956 according to your source, long after it was misinterpreted. There was a necessity to specify in modern legal terms exactly what defined, and comprised a militia.

Even in 1846, people were misinterpreting it, as a self-defense law.

US Infantry tactics wouldn't do much to help a revolutionary force unless it had a majority of the military on our side for the most part because US infantry tactics are designed for situations where you outnumber and outgun your enemy. We'd be better helped looking at some aspects of Islamist violence in revolution.

Keep in mind the US military is bloated and full of support that isn't really trained or equipped for real combat. I've seen US soldiers in Afghanistan with M16s that they complain jam every few shots in bigger FOBs. A lot of the problems the Soviets faced in regard to lack of training (the vast majority of the US Army is reserve/guard) and outdated equipment are beginning to affect the US.

its fucking 2016, if you want to rebel againts porky what makes you think a rifle is useful, sure they are cool and everything, but you can make more than enough ricin to kill hundreds of thousands in a small piece of land

having guns or not does not hault the revolution

Where do you think a revolutionary uprising would be confronting it's military? In big open fields?

what, chemical and biological weapns are even more useful in urban centers

...

a military spoon fed liberal democracy its entire existence would crumble if it used biological or chemical weapons on a major city of its own. not only would it embolden any fence sitters but the military 'class' in the United States is mostly working class poor and weekend warriors. Things would have to be looking very good for any revolutionary force before that was risked.

Any devastating technology that hasn't been used on the Middle East that -would- be used on revolutionaries in the United States we probably don't know about.

I understand that, but I don't think you get my point

my point was the population having guns, as in rifles, pistols, and so on does not does not harm the revolutionary cause


it was ironic, retard

I just think you underestimate how valuable having a healthy flow of weapons through the United States is, a healthy legal flow of weapons make the illegal weapons that much easier to get. It's easier to get your hands on an honest to goodness full auto assault rifle here than it is to get a 9 mil in some countries.

hello fbi.
ricin is useless for insurrection because it is a totally random attack.

I thought much of the white component comes from old rural america because everything not in a major city is atrophying and the black/latin component all come from the major cities

I could see a cracker from Texas not giving a shit if a bunch of smug city liberals die choking on poison gas, but I imagine Commissar Jamal and Comandante Jesus might object

but insurrection should be a totally random attack

organizatin is always compromised

I need to teach you niggers about what insurgency is and isn't sometime, and how COIN shit is conducted. While some mock "hearts & minds", that is definitely the focus of COIN operations. Get the people on your side and you win, no matter how hard they hit you.

This is why communism will succeed before there is ever any attack on the proletariat by the decaying capitalist state. The people will already by working in parallel organizations that take over roles of private business and government. The attack, if it comes, will be out of desperation. There may, indeed, be no need for violence. Already we are seeing socialism emerge and nobody sees it as such. Decentralized systems for providing services are already being developed.

First Uber was thought to be fucking people because it basically drove down wages for drivers. Then, of course, drivers figured out that they didn't need Uber. In Austin, TX, some have already developed a system that has the same functionality as Uber, but allows drivers to keep all the income that they generate. This is socialism in action. Think of how this could spread with increasing technology and connectivity. Socialism is coming. I would arm myself just in case, but I think peace and prosperity awaits if we know how to ride the wave.

shit nigga got a source for that? sounds awesome

I think it was called ride austin. Once it's fully developed, drivers will be making real bank. Another is just a facebook group.

What's with lefties and their aversion to modern gun designs? It can't be that every bullpup is prohibitively expensive and unreliable?

yes
no

I don't think most modern assault rifles have civilian variants we can buy. At least not at reasonable prices. Makes more sense to buy a cheap AR or AK variant.

P90 us amazing fam
Dat feed design, dat ambidextrous operation

I gotchu fam.

Jokes aside. How is this socialism? Seems more like communism to me if the drivers themselves own equal share in the service.

If not, it might even be called free-market capitalism.

it's egalitarian capitalism

AR-15 is the American worker's rifle, fam. It's everywhere and it's cheap as hell. AKs are nice, but a luxury, and other rifles are just not everywhere else to warrant it, unless you own a factory for these rifles and are willing to churn them out as fast as possible to arm the proletariat.

It's socialism because the workers own the means of production, namely themselves and their cars. It's not communism because communism is a final state of history without classes or state. We are not there yet.