Why does Holla Forums reject evidence that debunks race realism?

One particular one is that Blacks are performing shit in schools, despite grades improving.

apa.org/news/press/releases/2013/08/african-american-grades.aspx

independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/exclusive-must-do-better-black-pupils-did-with-best-improvement-in-exams-9563395.html

Or that """races"""" can't necessarily be divided into sub species or different races, based on behaviour and intelligence.


web.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/minorities.shtml

debunkingdenialism.com/2015/02/03/mailbag-fetishizing-richard-lewontin/

americananthro.org/ConnectWithAAA/Content.aspx?ItemNumber=2583

physanth.org/about/position-statements/biological-aspects-race/

livinganthropologically.com/anthropology/race-reconciled-debunks-race/

Or that they think that "muh multi racial state will cause psychological harm"

sgsep.com.au/publications/economic-benefits-cultural-diversity

Or deny that human genetic diversity actually creates healthier children.

dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3146070/Mixed-race-relationships-making-taller-smarter-Children-born-genetically-diverse-parents-intelligent-ancestors.html

sciencemag.org/news/2012/06/genetic-variants-build-smarter-brain

I say this because of the multiple """""""debates""""""" that I have had with race realists over time.

Other urls found in this thread:

dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3146070/Mixed-race-relationships-making-taller-smarter-Children-born-genetically-diverse-parents-intelligent-ancestors.html
sciencemag.org/news/2012/06/genetic-variants-build-smarter-brain
apa.org/news/press/releases/2013/08/african-american-grades.aspx
independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/exclusive-must-do-better-black-pupils-did-with-best-improvement-in-exams-9563395.html
unesco.org/new/fileadmin/MULTIMEDIA/HQ/CLT/pdf/P_Lovejoy_African_Contributions_Eng_01.pdf
asbmb.org/asbmbtoday/asbmbtoday_article.aspx?id=32437
amnation.com/vfr/archives/008152.html
coursera.org/learn/genetics-evolution
coursera.org/learn/genes
edx.org/course/introduction-applied-biostatistics-osakaux-med101x-0
youtube.com/watch?v=cX_L3DdElcU
youtube.com/watch?v=9yVJEoglgB8
economist.com/news/special-report/21572377-african-lives-have-already-greatly-improved-over-past-decade-says-oliver-august
agrimoney.com/news/maize-futures-slide-on-improving-south-african-crop--10101.html
devex.com/news/5-sub-saharan-african-countries-among-most-improved-to-do-business-84669
investmenteurope.net/other/africas-contribution-to-global-economy-is-growing-says-old-mutual/
drive.google.com/file/d/0B3c4TxciNeJZV3BBaVcxb1FpVHM/view
arxiv.org/abs/1408.3421
time.com/91081/what-science-says-about-race-and-genetics/
sgsep.com.au/publications/economic-benefits-cultural-diversity
youtube.com/watch?v=ldQVWgEx5iM

Hey I might use some of these, and because they really, really want to believe.

because they only care about hating other races and will only accept information that supports those bigotries?

Because it doesn't fit their narrative.
There really isn't anything more to it.

It's just that I had a debate with some stormfag last night and he refuted the refutations at Rushton, and the fact that black kids are doing better in school than they once were before.

we just don't know man

it's funded and controlled by jews

False flag or Holla Forums fag?

We'll never know!

If niggers are really the worst thing ever why would the jews want them around? Jews already control western civilization so why would they want all these people causing trouble and what not? They would want to bring them back to Africa if anything

iq

irrelevant shiting to make all the population a grey blob that is easy to control

because idpol isn't about facts, its about feels.

aren't you supposed to be the master race ? how can few 1000 jew control you ?

You left the debate because in the end you couldn't disprove the sources he provided.

But they already control society, and aren't white people smarter,more productive, and much less likely to engage in crime. And I thought that irrelevant shiting was destabilizing and destructive to civilization.

inb4 anyone that attempts to disprove the OP's claims is banned for "irrelevant shiting"

inb4 OP pats himself on the back for refuting stormfags because everyone who doesn't circlejerk over the OP gets banned

I left the debate because I was tired and I disproved his sources, as well as the fact that he rejected them.

And I'm sure he would argue that he disproved your sources. What is an user to take from that? and besides he never argued that environment didn't play a factor in intelligence

Wrong image

There's evidence both for and against. You don't have to be a Holla Forumsack for the redpill. I take it the truth lies somewhere in the middle. This may be uncomfortable for true egalitarians, but reality is supposed to be uncomfortable. People ought to be more equal - it'd make a lot of things less complicated but they are not. I try to judge on an individual basis where possible.

Most people are drawn to worldviews which provide them with some basic emotional and intellectual sustenance while not challenging their current position in life (unless it's with the promise of an advance in material well-being or status) and providing them with a community of fellow believers. People cannot afford to seriously reconsider their positions even in the light of evidence because it could potentially deprive them of often hard-won feelings of belonging, security, moral righteousness and meaning. To do so is enormously painful. If you've already embraced an ideology which emphasizes faith over facts, it's even easier to deny contradictory evidence, because such evidence is merely a "subversive lie". If somebody experiences doubt while in a community of fellow believers, other members will help dispel their concerns either in a friendly manner or inspire conformity by mockery or accusations. The community of believers, which was sought out for the comforts it provided, becomes impossible to escape, at least without being rejected by a community that once provided meaning, comfort, etc. So there's a strong personal and social motivation to only seek out information that confirms your existing views. And if those beliefs are tied into class (think of the small businessman who considers himself a job creator) they're even more difficult to reject. There's a material as well as emotional and intellectual incentive to go on believing.

And I did. And he pretty much quoted Rushton, who believed it was all genetic, despite being proven wrong on that

though I do agree with you. Why I even debated that retard is beyond my comprehension. We're not going to change our views, regardless

If you believe irrelevant shiting with Africans makes Asians or Europeans smarter, you are fucking retarded. Genetic diversity is like marrying someone from a town over, not having sprogs with less genetic similarities than a random European kid.

It is beneficial for a Black person to have kids with a white person. The reverse is true of a white person.

If you want to breed an bigger child breed with a taller person, if you want a smarter child, don't breed with blacks.

These are people that never had a calendar and struggle with the concept of time in current day African societies.

Pretty much the same thing. I don't deny people are unequal, but I believe in freedom/ equality of opportunity and movement, as I believe it gives the illusion of an egalitarian society

Except it's been proven that it does

dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3146070/Mixed-race-relationships-making-taller-smarter-Children-born-genetically-diverse-parents-intelligent-ancestors.html

sciencemag.org/news/2012/06/genetic-variants-build-smarter-brain

and considering that they're doing better in school, would indicate that they're not that dumb. I can pretty much breed with whoever I want. If they're smart, funny, and kind, I couldn't give a shit about race

apa.org/news/press/releases/2013/08/african-american-grades.aspx

independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/exclusive-must-do-better-black-pupils-did-with-best-improvement-in-exams-9563395.html

unesco.org/new/fileadmin/MULTIMEDIA/HQ/CLT/pdf/P_Lovejoy_African_Contributions_Eng_01.pdf

asbmb.org/asbmbtoday/asbmbtoday_article.aspx?id=32437

Pretty much. This user had it right two years ago, >>>/marx/1556 but we still put ourselves through the torture of trying to convince eachother.

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These are jewish sources, show me non jewish sources

That sciencemag nonsense repudiates the findings as baseless at the end for fucks sake.

I noticed this gem

It's interesting that these people would be chopped alive for mentioning actual races having the same inheritable intelligence characteristics, and there being an obvious difference between races.

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nu/pol/ rejects & bans anything that contradicts their narrative. I'd swear they were bought out and staffed by the president-elect's campaign, but I can't prove it. the fact that you get banned damn-near instantly for saying anything against "him" is too suspicious. i remember old halfchan Holla Forums when they hated all authority, what the fuck happened?

Jesus that second one is We Wuz Kings on crack, Shakespeare was black level nonsense.

reminds me of that crazy feminazi who said that facts were created by the patriarchy to subject women.

they played stupid for too long and ended up attracting real morons who thought they were in good company

It says they want to do larger scale studies


ok

WEW BUDDY

Ah, you are a Holla Forumsack trolling, the achievements are Egyptian, and the rest 'may have' type garbage like sub saharans sailed the world before anyone.

Because on closer inspection all of the "evidence" has glaring holes.

Like the studies and articles that talk about blacks students in Britain doing well. You have to consider that immigration policy in Britain was very strict up until 1990. So the African blacks immigrating during that time were the best of the best in their own countries. Their children would be the ones whose school performance is measured for modern studies. If you only let 115 Autism Level blacks in, of course they'd be performing better. If anything, it just proves that humans are not above selection pressures.

Why are you posting an article that talks about economic benefits and not psychological ones. It's pretty clear that the only reason for immigration and multiculti propaganda is because it benefits the economy. Cheap labor, more consumers. Every new immigrant is someone who needs a house and a car, and can start working right away, so you don't need to waste 18 years of time and taxes to raise them into a worker. You have to ask yourself, if economic benefits are the only things you care about. Or if the interests of those who benefit the most from immigration (business owners, banks, political parties) represent yours.

See this article for psychological harm, for example:
amnation.com/vfr/archives/008152.html


And so on. Thing is, you don't actually care about debate, OP, or you'd have to concede that you've no silver bullets against racial realism, just a bunch of text walls that push a certain narrative and fall apart on closer inspection.

If any geneticists were actually ITT, they wouldn't even engage in the discussion as it's futile until we can accurately determine the impact of epigenetics vs. genetics. Moreover, OP is relying on the same pseudo-scientific claims eugenicists used in the early to mid 1950s to influence policy. Unfortunately, we're nowhere near being able to explain either of the two's roles in determining behavior or in determining gene expression so the debate will intensify over the next few decades until we understand the processes fully.

My recommendation would be to engage with specialists actually in the process of discovering the influences of epigenetics and genetics rather than trying to justify your claim with indeterminate information.
Below are some courses that should help all anons develop their understanding of this issue.

coursera.org/learn/genetics-evolution

coursera.org/learn/genes

edx.org/course/introduction-applied-biostatistics-osakaux-med101x-0

Don't bother, if you do find compelling links, you wouldn't publish it, unless you wanted to lose any funding or future job security.

youtube.com/watch?v=cX_L3DdElcU


youtube.com/watch?v=9yVJEoglgB8


Except for the sources I provided, the fact that scientists, (including anthropologists and biologists) think that race realism is bullshit.


Says the Holla Forumsyp

>linking a youtube video with the title TL;DR
As I've stated, there are obviously no other specialists ITT. For those that wish to learn rather than parrot refer to the courses I've listed above .

I was in a halfchsn thread yesterday where every time I debunked race realism they said that socialists don't believe in evolution but scientists do LMAO CHECKMATE GOMMIE

Thanks for proving my point, m8. This is exactly why the left is losing, all you can do is screech and make noise.

Just look at this fucking nonsense and tell me these people have any interest in finding uncomfortable realities, it's a warning, do not fucking look here, or you will be deemed a racist.

This is laughable, weasel words. Yes individuals differ, but it APPEARS we are all equal regarding assimilation.

How the fuck is that science, it's dogma. They go on to fucking talk about racist politics like that isn't a complete strawman. The subject is intelligence, not eugenics, not race realism, just intelligence.

Some people are smarter than others is as far as they go, not Science.

Okey doke

Not an argument.

If these people think science will cause problems they will simply not allow research via statements like this, you would have to not give a shit about your career to study race and intelligence.

And for that reason Africans will never be able to improve to European levels, because nobody will study the clear difference in aptitudes and real ways the gap could be bridged.

'Taking them out of poverty' cannot explain it as they are not capable yet of standing alone without European funding, and never will unless they improve aptitude.

economist.com/news/special-report/21572377-african-lives-have-already-greatly-improved-over-past-decade-says-oliver-august

agrimoney.com/news/maize-futures-slide-on-improving-south-african-crop--10101.html

devex.com/news/5-sub-saharan-african-countries-among-most-improved-to-do-business-84669

Yeah, I doubt that.

Are you actually a nigger, because I said to European levels.

Of course sub saharan Africa has 'improved', we invest billions, so do the Chinese. We also keep it on life support. The return on the aid is fucking laughable due to endemic corruption.

unesco.org/new/fileadmin/MULTIMEDIA/HQ/CLT/pdf/P_Lovejoy_African_Contributions_Eng_01.pdf

investmenteurope.net/other/africas-contribution-to-global-economy-is-growing-says-old-mutual/

What the fuck is this? Again you must be a nigger because you can't read, I SAID RETURN ON AID. You post some shit about we wuz kangz.

As for the second link

Do you know how many times over that has gone down the shitter in Africa? It's an appalling return for Europeans.

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No I'm actually white, but nice try.

Wew lad, you sure showed me

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Yeah rightio lad.

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And as I've stated, intelligence is improving, black kids are doing better in school than they were before, and explanations as to why they can't do certain things cuz ""hur durr niggers""" has been debunked.

And yet you still act like a fool, chucking buzzwords and assuming I'm black.

You really made me think

Not to mention, I posted proof that considering that Africa is steadily improving, we can assume that it's not going to be shit hole it once was 20 years from now.

I'm confused by what this whole argument is about, do you think "races" aren't real? What does it exactly mean to be real, anyway? You can take the genomic data on differences on populations, and then lump in groups of populations as a race. Sure, races represent a huge amount of genetic diversity, but this kind of simple and physical classification does have its uses, particularly for risk diagnosis of disease.

Additionally, genetic inferiority isn't really something that can be scientifically shown right now. Genome wide association studies are often used for studies like these, but they only show candidates of genomic loci that may be implicated in the trait being studied.

It is not IMPOSSIBLE to conceive that black people are, on average, less smart than the populations that migrated out of Africa. However, there is no proof in it that is any more reliable than this election cycle's polling.

Newspapers are not valid sources.

kek he deleted all his posts

Are you retarded? News articles summarize valid sources, and cite them.

A Youtube video is not proof or a valid source.

not an argument

Are you kidding me?
These are valid sources:
Genes and educational development
drive.google.com/file/d/0B3c4TxciNeJZV3BBaVcxb1FpVHM/view
On the genetic architecture of intelligence and other quantitative traits
arxiv.org/abs/1408.3421

If you read the first article you will learn that children with high polygenic scores were born into high-income families.

Also practice does not make perfect. What an individual can achieve is largely determined by their genetics, not enviroment.

To add, environment does matter if it´s really terrible. for example a child that isnt well fed will not have a normal development. This is not the case in any country in the west. Groups that fall behind, fall behind because of their genetics.

Fall behind in the west that is.

Also I am on the left and I am a race realist. This is because if we want to create a great country we have to understand genetics. Genetics control every human, if we control genetics we control everything.

Just so happens that those really terrible environments happen to be in black neighbourhoods.

Environmental factors are also why blacks tend to score lower on the Autism Level test. Environmental factors including lead exposure, breast feeding, (as stated by Campbell, 2002) and nutrition (as covered by Ivanovic, 2004 and Salojee and Pettifor, 2001) can significantly affect cognitive development and functioning. As stated by Qian (2005), For iodine deficiency causes a fall, on average, of 12 Autism Level points.

Such impairments may sometimes be permanent, sometimes be partially or wholly compensated for by later growth. The first two years of life is the critical time for malnutrition, the consequences of which are often irreversible and include poor cognitive development, educability, and future economic productivity. (As covered in The Lancet Series on Maternal and child Undernutrition, 2008)

The African American population of the United States is statistically more likely to be exposed to many detrimental environmental factors such as poorer neighborhoods, schools, nutrition, and prenatal and postnatal health care (Nesbit, 2009 and Cooper 2005).

Mackintosh (2011) points out that for American Blacks infant mortality is about twice as high as for whites, and low birthweight is twice as prevalent. At the same time white mothers are twice as likely to breastfeed their infants, and breastfeeding is highly correlated with Autism Level for low birthweight infants. In this way a wide number of health related factors that influence Autism Level are unequally distributed between the two group.

And as we know from the example of Flint, black communities get poisoned without people giving a shit

Good posts btw

if only you'd stop arguing on the internet and start reading. this place is turning to shit every single day

Genetics vs Environmentalism doesn't matter.
Assuming a race is inherently inferior, each individual should still be given fair treatment.
I don't think it's right choose a principle and then try to prove the most convenient reality.

your not applying a bell curve

itshould be noticed that enven if the stormfag were correct (which they arren't) the curves are overlapping.
the variation between individual among one group is larger than the variation between the average of all group.

READ IT AND WEEP FAGGOTS
time.com/91081/what-science-says-about-race-and-genetics/

I like communism but I'm not going to pretend like niggers are equal to whites

Nigger did you look at the distribution on that scatterplot? The correlation is statistically significant but weak af.

Race realism is retarded because racial groupings are more or less meaningless. There's no debate around gene realism because everyone knows genes affect shit. However, stupid stormcucks think they're able to determine a person's genetic makeup just by eyeballing phenotypes. If you account for stuff like diet, the Flynn effect, exposure to contaminants and whatnot, there's no conclusive evidence that sub-Saharan African people don't exhibit the same range of genetic potential within their populations as anyone else.

Openly shit on by numerous experts in biology, especially genetics, whom are tired of their field being vilified. He literally redefines "race" to mean whatever he wants and backs it up with truisms like "genetic ancestry is a thing".

I'm sorry mate but this shit is nonsense. All of it.

I don't stop myself and ask why the starting lineup of a professional football team isn't full of asians and jews any more then I ask myself who are in the back offices of the teams making strategic decisions.

I really think this is all garbage. Headline from the independent? Fucks sake.

2016 and most countries that a run by blacks are in severe peril.

Its does not even take science to observe what should be fairly obvious.

Blacks will never compete with whites, asian, or jews intellectually. Ever.

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Jarring demographic fluctuations damage social cohesion and culturally fracture a society.

Heterosis between human ethnicities, races, or whatever is a fucking canard used by delusional liberals

i have literally not once seen a liberal use hybrid vigor in an argument about race, ever. they don't even want to discuss it, which is why they like name calling so much

sgsep.com.au/publications/economic-benefits-cultural-diversity

dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3146070/Mixed-race-relationships-making-taller-smarter-Children-born-genetically-diverse-parents-intelligent-ancestors.html

sciencemag.org/news/2012/06/genetic-variants-build-smarter-brain

Yes, because this totally couldn't have anything to do with parent characteristics or regional dynamics, lets just play genetic determinism liberal idpol edition

Mestizos in America have lower SES than the general population average, as do mulattoes. Grow a fucking brain

Be honest, there's no more evidence against population dependent intelligence than there is for it. Concepts like intelligence are way too complicated for genomics to be able to answer right now and speculation into it always devolves into pseudo-science from both sides.

Sure, rapid *changes*, but change is not inherently jarring or disruptive. Modern global communication has made young adults more culturally similar than ever, non-Westerners fucking lover Western media; in a decade you'll be playing vidya online with Achmed in Bahrain.

youtube.com/watch?v=cX_L3DdElcU

youtube.com/watch?v=ldQVWgEx5iM

Sure, but I do think a hard racial explanation can be thrown out. The people making those jpegs of skulls don't merely have politically incorrect views, they literally believe utter nonsense like blacks not being homo sapiens

See:

>sgsep.com.au/publications/economic-benefits-cultural-diversity

Is a propaganda piece, and I did not address economic growth, I was referring to social cohesion (and by extension civic culture, community trust, feeling safe outside at night, etc etc). Unless the article really tackles the problem of living in a post-cultural society I don't feel any need to read on further.

"Social cohesion" is even more politically charged, since it's hard to define when measured through surveys. If anything, the only communities that seemingly suffer from ethnic diversity are the most de facto segregated ones; integrated communities like Washington DC see virtually no difference in cohesion.

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Purely from a scientific view, I don't think it can be thrown out as a possibility that there's a significant impact of genetics on intelligence/behavior. There has been nothing really to "disprove," this hypothesis, so it remains on the pile of scientific possibilities.

But the thing is, policy and public opinion should not advocate claims that are essentially baseless and entirely founded on correlations and assumptions. There is a limitless amount of things that haven't been scientifically disproved because of the difficulty in specific phrasing of the null hypothesis.

which it abstracts hard to push a narrative. Just because someone didn't literally pull something out of their ass doesn't be they're not motivated by something more than the truth

I browse this board with an interest in leftism (non-socialist taking an interest in it), but you don't even come off as a leftist. Arguing a genetic determinist argument to explain one phenomenon, then a tabula rasa explanation for another is super fucking disingenuous. Maybe you should reason off of a general base, first principles and generalizable assumptions.

If a mixed race subpopulation does well socially, it's because of their genes. If an ethnic minority (or franky, a less convenient mixed race population) does poorly, it's because of complex socioeconomic interplay. You're pushing a fucking agenda and not even aware of it

all the studies defined race as different identifiable haplogoups with specific genetic markers unique to said groups

the argument is white and pacific asian groups have higher Autism Levels, and niggers and sandniggers are generally lower on G and Autism Level

said gene pools should be kept seperate, because whats the point of driving down mean Autism Level when theres things that still need figuring out

at least get the racist argument right, jackass

Well… duh. It'd be extremely unlikely if there wasn't. I was talking about the relation of it to race. Even attempts to quantify Autism Level and genes that differ by racial ancestry have shown that every one of the selected genes, which correlate with Autism Level, is found in all human demographics, just in different amounts.

I agree in general, though, the extreme implications of politics based on this kind of speculation is frightening. Even for stormfags, whom will quickly realize that low Autism Level whites aren't welcome in Aryanland either.

IQ needs testing to be measured. Why not simply segregate by the number itself?

Well for the last few decades the track record for policy with respect to race goes something like this: