What are your views on the Syrian Civil War?

It's fucking glorious. It's a cold war cold war. You've got regional powers using the mess as a proxy war between themselves while superpowers use them as a proxy war between each other.

The Kurds are okay.

All wars US waged in middle east is a mistake. Never fucking again must this shit be repeated in history. Middle east is a containment continent for degenerate highly religious extremest, and they can only be kept by powerful leaders, who US constantly removed from power. Now we have to deal with ISIS. If Hillary won we would had a war with Russia no doubt, over fucking sand monkeys with rotten ideologies.

In a perfect world middle east does not exist.

There's no more rotten an ideology than that of the USA

where my Ahrar Al Sham bros at

I wish there was a secular leftist force amongst the Syrians like the Kurds.

The choice the media presents is between American imperialism (FSA) and Russian imperialism (Assad). Fuck both.

Socialist Federal Republic of Syria when?

I stand with assad.

Surprised there's not already a party for that tbh.

the worthwhile Arab Rebel forces are now with the SDF. there's is actually a huge amount of Arabs in the SDF these days, it's not propaganda anymore. I'm talking groups like Jaysh al-Thuwar,

but yes most "FSA" (doesn't exist anymore tbh) rebels like al Zenki and Al Sham are deeply embedded with Al Nusra and want shariah law and a caliphate. As bad as Assad is, he is better than the Syria the rebels want.

"Arab Socialism" is just Nazism adapted to the Arab rather than Aryan race. Those communists are probably Zyuganov tier.

Doesn't seem right when there were dozens of protected ethnic groups in Assad's Syria, but I was only half serious anyway.

topkek, it was a war between syria and the US plain and simple.

Kurds didn't fare well in Assad's syria

all under the Alawite minority dictatorship

Yet Assyrians did just fine.

The minority dictatorship that ENFORCED women's rights, a secular constitution, welfare, education for all and enjoys popular support to this day. What bastards.

They have the SSNP which is a national syndicalist party of sorts, they do fight on the side of Assad in the war though. They base their pan Syrian nationalism more around regional than ethnic identity and are fiercely secular.

isn't that just what fascists used to call themselves?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falange_Española_de_las_JONS

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. The bottom line is, and has always been, Assad or 'democratically installed' islamists. People have tried to argue the case for democratic Islamists, but tend to get BTFO by facts.

intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/better-elected-islamists-dictators

Link is a debate,

On the 'For the Motion' side, listed as one of their central arguments,

topkek.

there's a problem in the middle east with secularism being strongly tied to tyranny

amongst who? Assad's forces have killed far more than anyone else in the civil war. It's not a binary choice between Assad and the fundies

outside Rojava it kind of is

This.

Trump should pull out, pay 1 trillion to Russia and leave them to sort it out in a matter of weeks.

Among the vast majority of the population. Remember, over 80% of the population living in Syria are in Assad controlled areas. Even among those who fled the nation his support is strong, evidenced by votes cast for him at the embassies of host nations.

There is no civil war you fucking dirtbag cunt.

It is an attack by external elements.
Same as Libya.

I hope you and your kind are extinguished from the face of the earth very soon.

Based Bashar > YPG/SDF >>>>>>>>>>> shit > ((moderate)) rebels > ISIS

For sauce,

reuters.com/article/us-syria-crisis-election-idUSKBN0E815R20140528

surprised a tankie hasn't put YPG below ISIS tbqh

When did Assadism-Gaddafism-Putinism become the guiding ideology of socialists? Tankies are fucking cancer. YPG or bust.

"Arab nationalism is totally the way to go"
-Tankie

It's called pragmatism you fucking clods.

Then Syrian leftists have work to do. If Assad stays in power, which he almost certainly will given Putin and Trump, then he'll return to a bourgeois hereditary dictatorship, like before

same as Libya's.
an engineered "revolution" to destroy a country.

I'm pretty sure Syrian leftists are better off under Assad (who is sort of SocDem) than under a CIA-funded islamofascist dictatorship.

you guys are shit stains.

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I doubt it. First thing, Assad =/= his father. Assad was something of a reformer or moderniser. What is often ignored completely by western media is the thing he is fighting now has long been there, sheltered by the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria. Economic and environmental factors mixed with the western media's cheerleading of the 'arab spring' ignited the simmering resentment. But even at the beginning, it was never a popular movement, and never really about democracy, Sure, some of the FSA may have believed the democratic slogans the west plastered over their faces. But even excluding external forces, Islamists were already there.

Assad was not great, but he was a moderate by the regions standards, and was taking the country in the right direction.

I suspect that even though most of the nation supports him, they don't do so unequivocally. Once the real and imminent threat is taken care of, there will be demand for reforms to pick up pace.

American involvement in Syria + the backstabbing of Bernie probably cost the Democrats the race in 2016.

Lets of antiwar people who came out for Obama lost faith as Syria dragged on. Libya they could handle, a few drone strikes here and there is ok, but this Syria shit was a disgrace.

And no, having your media empires chatter nonstop about two pictures of drowned and bloodied toddlers doesn't turn antiwar folks into interventionists, not after proving time and time again that American intervention just leaves behind failed states.

If we go to war at all, we commit to total war and rule with an iron fist until the whole region and its surrounding environs are permanently pacified.

You sad, naive thing. I won't even call you a person your consciousness is so false.

ISIS itself was the new containment strategy. Let them have their little desert caliphate and siphon all the extremists away from all the other parts of the world. Who cares?
"Oh but mah abused womens" - tons of women chose to move there from developed nations and be part of it. They chose it with the full agency libdems allowed, respect that. Just like a fundamental part of a successful protest is making them lock you up and actually serving your time in jail. Just like a fundamental part of a hunger strike is actually refusing to eat.

After mass numbers of Syrians are mobilized to rebuild all the shit destroyed during this war. The become organized and understand that they're the ones doing all real work and have the real power. They just need to be taught beforehand how to not get negotiated under the table.
Their thinking needs to be "We will rebuild the table only if we then have a seat at the table."

Pragmatism doesn't mean changing your goals to match the conditions. It means changing the conditions so that your preferred goal can be presented as the only logical conclusion.
We don't do the radical bailout to save everyone from the financial crisis; we cause the financial crisis so the radical bailout appears necessary.

Look at

Now you can write it off as not real socialism all you like but I assure you most of the Syrians already have a better understanding of theory than most of the LARPers here. Socialism, if corrupted is not a dirty word over there. Syria has been cagey about the US imperialism since forever and are still at war with the US' symbiotic parasite next door.

Right and the goals of leaders in the nations the US has smashed have been (with the exception of Iran), secular pan arab/africanism. That said leaders speak in terms of socialism tells you that socialism, of some verity, is popular over there. People here tend to get bootyblasted cause most of the socialism the arabs do is of the 'in one country' strain, but both Syria and Libya had features that were socialistic, especially by comparison to the gulf monarchies.

I don't want this to turn into a 'that's not socialism' but of the top of my head the following was guarenteed for each citizen in both Libya and Syria

Libya even guaranteed a house to every citizen and Syria's constitution has built in defenses against islamism.

So perhaps not up to the left/pol/ gold standard of socialism, but certainly closer than most other nations in the world.

Is the Erdog against Assad?
Why was there a US-backed coup attempt?

This has more dimensions than my mind can hold I think

There are posters on Holla Forums that are pro Assad and looking at this post
pro Qaddafi? How do you lads rationalize that?

Yes. Syria is the only thing blocking a Saudi oil pipeline to Europe.

Are you talking about the coup attempt in Turkey recently? To me it seems like it was either orchestrated by Erdogan himself since right afterwards he fired a few thousand judges that were completely unrelated to the coup attempt furthering his grip on Turkey. If it was a US-backed attempt, then the US is becoming grossly incompetent at overthrowing other countries.

I recommend reading Lawrence of Arabia. The people currently running the countries in this region are only 3rd generation ex-horse nomads that got wealthy over a very short period of time.

what is there to rationalize? Being simultaneously pro Assad and Gaddafi? or just any of them?

Either way, it's a solid belief that the US shouldn't have meddled with the Middle East, and it was only done to control the oil market, serve higher powers, terrorize the population and give a geopolitical hand to Israel and Saudi Arabia.

I think that as a Holla Forums lurker and Trump supporter, but it's the general opinion of Holla Forums's /sg/ (Syria General). Lurk enough and you'll realise even Saddam Hussein makes the list

Even Trump thinks they shouldn't have toppled Assad, Gaddafi and Saddam:
youtube.com/watch?v=3jyElI-pc08
youtube.com/watch?v=sx-TgSOTpAc

It's like the ME became the designated fighting arena

I hope they free up the gig by the time India and Pakistan have to rent it for their honour feud

They are secularist turd positionists, but truthfully, you'd have to be retarded to prefer islamic """"""democrats"""""" over them. But still, in case of Syria Kurds tend to have more support on the left due to not only being secular, but also more socialist(we wuz coops and sheit) and not as authoritarian as Assad.

Let's face it, the YPJ qts are probably a big factor too.

Erdo like most of the world was very anti Assad at one stage but has toned down that rhetoric since it's become clear Assad is gonna win

The coup wasn't orchestrated by the US. If it was, Gulen would be in power now.

every relevant communist party is with him, including the syrian. the fuck is this question?

CPGB-ML pls gp

Both are Islamic strongarm dictators, Assad is only indirectly since he inherited his current situation from his strongarm father. Relative to Western forced democracy that looks more like Islamic anarchism rather than democracy, they are better but they still only are still Islamic dictators.

Qaddafi and Saddam are easy to look at in nostalgic retrospect, but they were still terrible in their time. Is Holla Forums going to look at Erdogan in the same light if/when he gets taken out? What's the difference between him and Assad/Saddam/Qaddafi/Mubarak other than he is still in control of his country and Western backed? Seems like people only like the latter because places like this are contrarian first, analytical second.

Then support of Assad instantly dies once ISIS and friends are removed just like how Syria was before this crisis. Assad doesn't want Kurdistan just as much as those Islamic """moderate democratic rebels""" don't.

Well at least with Qaddafi there is no denial that Libya used to be a run of the mill Maghreb country, i.e. pretty okay, especially considering that it always was slightly behind in terms of urbanisation and infrastructure compared to Algeria, Tunisia and so on.
Now it's a Somalia tier hellhole.

Erdogan has toned it down because he realizes he's on an island. His Western/Saudi/Israeli "allies" will want to remove him once Assad is dealt with at which point Russia/Iran won't help him.

If Assad is of remove, Kurdistan becomes a thing which means the PPK becomes a major problem for Erdogan, or the Turkish Kurds who Erdogan has firebombed, jailed tyrannically, or simply assassinated. The same group of people the US special forces are training in Syria. If this sounds familiar it should, it's only the 15th or so time the US has done this exact maneuver to a nation.

Also, Erdogan does clearly a liberal-capitalist policy, the others not so much. I also highly doubt Turkey would go to shit once Erdogan is removed

no.

Erdogan just pokers very high atm. I don't think he even knows if he is gonna end up with Putin or with the NATO, even though the destruction of that Russian jet caused quite a stir Erdogan and Putin don't necessarily seem to exclude a potential alliance from the realm of possibilities.

I don't believe trained Kurds are any sort of threat for Erdogan. They won't be able to create a militant opposition the way they did it in Syria - Turkish military is just too powerful and the country is too developed except some rural shitholes in Anatolia that they could afford dragging down Turkey into a full scale civil war. That might seriously result in a WWIII-like scenario.

I honestly don't know what Israel's game is though.

that's right comrade, attacking your own civilians is how you raise class consciousness. keep fighting imperialism

kek, better take credit for this meme before someone steals it

Whatever. I'll never understand why you types love the likes of Assad.

You literally have no idea how many of these "opposition members" are actually Islamic mercenaries imported by foreign powers from the very beginning. The few actual liberal democratic activists were never in the game except being useful idiots.

With what else is he supposed to fight, give him better surgical weapons if you want civil war to be less dirty

Never happened, read the report of MIT

we don't
he's merely preferable

you on the other hand are anticommunist US proxies that seriously need to be killed mercilessly

there is literally no significant difference between YPG and ISIS

Maybe because we also like actual facts and don't reproduce whatever uninformed propaganda you read in the liberal media.

Remember when the "Syrian organisation for human rights" that was quoted in every shithead article turned out to be a restaurant owner in London who has a blog?

Everyone's shit besides Rojava

I'm going to join our brothers any day now.

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lel

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There's already some sort of tacit alliance between Putin and Erdogan, but how devoted either of them is to it is rather sketchy.

Kurdish forces in Turkey will never be able to build a de facto state like they did in Syria, but if Erdogan continues with his offences against the Turkish people I can see the insurrection getting a lot bloodier. The PKK, despite Turkish propaganda, try hit military and state institutions and limit civilian casualties as much as possible. But when you jail and harass the Kurdish voice diplomatically (HDP), you make violence inevitable. I can see fringe groups like TAK stepping up their game and killing lots of Turks if this continues.

Offences against the Kurdish ppl, sorry.

Not the fuck at all.

I don't at all support the hardline Islamic groups that are now in de facto control of Libya, but how else would you transition from someone like Qaddafi into something better? This kind of transition is inevitable as I see it since strongarm dictators will not give their power up willingly.

If that was true, he wouldn't have bothered to remove any sort of political organization of Kurdish groups have in Turkey. The Kurds will be a legitimate threat as long as Kurdistan becomes a thing. I'll admit that Turkey has a strong conventional military as a regional power, but they are not prepared to fight an insurgency. Saudi Arabia also has a similar military in terms of being Western funded, but are getting destroyed by some Houthi sheep herdsmen in Yemen. Additionally you have to consider that if Saudi Arabia/Israel/the US want Erdogan gone, they will spin him as a ruthless dictator like Assad who is dropping cluster bombs on Kurdish sheep homesteads while supplying arms, aid and organization across the border in Kurdish Syria, much like how Al Qaeda in Afghanistan was able to organize across the border in Pakistan.

Red leader, standing by

what are the memes?

I thought this place wasn't such a shit hole as Holla Forums, but it's even worse on moments

Fucking lol

stick Putin or Xi Jinping in there then

either that or a liberal retard.

Poor Assad.He was getting ready to become a doctor but his brother died and had to step up.I don't know much about him but his face is not that evil/crazy looking tbh.

he*

I wouldn't have looked up to Assad nor Saddam, nor do I now
Well, Gaddafi idk, he actually tried and distributed the wealth of his nation, albeit being a dirtbag, and I don't think I ever read someone post about Saddam being a good guy
But yes, when it was thought the coup was US-backed, there was heavy opposition to international meddling

The best that can happen is that we look powerlessly at injustice, and try to wake up the people retweeting propaganda, instead of dealing with the current mess

Everybody except the YPG are shit and even they are pretty liberal.

Assad is a preferable alternative to an Islamist takeover.

If the US was a decent country they would demand Kurdish autonomy or independence in exchange for letting Assad remain in power.

gotta meme this into reality. I'm imagining sargon blowing himself up in a liberal college because they're not status quo enough.

Fucking pipeline porkies

Look for yourself into what Gaddafi did for his country. He turned it into the richest nation if Africa with public healthcare and education, job and housing guarantees, subsidised fuel for all citizens. Honestly, had Gaddafi not tried to cozy up to and and every 'leftist' (read, international struggle against imperialism) cause going he'd probably still be alive today. As it is, with his trach record (Pan AM, IRA), as soon as he dared mention a new reserve currency for Africa, he had to go.

Anyway, my point was if you were a citizen living in Libya, Gaddafi did a lot for you. Most of the people who had an issue with him (outside hardline islamists) were capitalists, pissed at his economic policies.

Honestly, I'd call whatever Gaddafi did soclaims did right.

It's right to revolt.

Moar to it than that.

First of, it's a gas pipeline. This gas will be coming from the North Dome gas field, which site in the arabic/persion gulf. Herein lies the problem. Both Qatar and Iran have claim to part of this large field (about 60% Qatari, 40% Iranian). Both have been developing it recently too, to the point that both are now ready to produce. Both (Iran and Qatar) hope to sell this gas to Europe. As such both pipelines must go through Syria into Turkey. Assad rejected the proposed Qatari/Turkish pipeline, instead opting for the Iran-Iraq-Syria-Turkey one (friendship pipeline).

Now. Consider Europe's current situation. They import the vast majority of their natural gas, most from Russia. Russia depends on this income. The Qatari pipeline posed a direct threat, as this price would be set to undermine Russia's (Qatar = KAS = USA), while Iran's deal would have seen some of their money work its way back to Russia anyway as Iran and Russia trade a lot and are pretty close.

Like so much shit you see in the world since 1990 that you don't understand, all road lead to Moscow. Simply put, Russia is too large. The neo-cons in the US want to see Russia broken up. They think economic collapse is the easiest way to do this.

Nah fuck that. Nuke or gas the cunts.

Maybe so but 10-20% of the population shouldn't expect to achieve anything especially when so many of their demands are completely unpalatable to the majority.