Quake Thread

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it does the same damage as the shotgun, which isn't much but it makes for very interesting challenge runs. It is possible to beat the game this way, but you may just be running past spawns, and you will use monster in-fighting a lot.

I've been playing through Saturn Quake, it's difficult, and there's some interesting design changes I've noticed, but I still enjoy the game regardless.

No it isn't, it would be a chore if at all possible.

Because that's the only one you played, stupid.

I keep saying I'll complete Dissolution of Eternity one of these days, but I always give up after a few levels.

The level design is rather bland with no map really sticking out. Levels only use a handful of textures to dress the walls and it makes every halls look the same (which is both disorienting and boring). Most levels consist of small rooms connected by endless and very narrow corridors: since you don't have enough room to navigate and fight, combats are starting to get tedious and the numerous enemies standing in your way, physically blocking your path, feel like doors you need to destroy in order to advance. Layouts are much more linear, with very little backtracking or complex connections between rooms.

New enemies and weapons are mostly reskin of existing stuff; the new textures and skins look good, but it's still lazy. Rogue also added a few new enemies like electric eels (yes, they thought it was necessary to add a new type of aquatic enemy; talk about priorities) and some kind of flying dark wizards. They also added lots and lots of random hazards and traps.

It's one of those "you tried" add-on: it doesn't "feel like Quake" and the gameplay is borderline amateurish (well, it's not Aftershock either, but it's really sub par compared to the original game and Scourge of Armagon). Download the stuff and check out for yourself, maybe I'm being too harsh.

it's not a particularly good set of levels. You may just want to stick to custom maps, and also give arcane dimensions a try.

I'm super picky when it comes to custom maps: I'd rather play 10 small maps than play 1 long, unfortunately the later type seem to be the most prevalent. I also loath "experimental" maps or stuff that goes too far away from the original gameplay ("hey guys, let's make a map where you don't have any weapon and you have to kill enemies by using traps").

You shouldn't shun maps because they are necessarily experimental. Have you tried Nyarlathotep?

Dont worry, I tried enough of them. Some people like that, I don't. Even Honey is too experimental for me. Having all of these messages about a backstory I don't give two fucks about is really a turn off. It looks great and plays well, but it's not what I expect from Quake. If I wanted to play something else, I'd play something else (creating a Thief map to turn the game into Quake is as pointless as a stealthy Quake map IMO)

No, I've played the whole game countless times, I play through it multiple times every year. The first episode just seems to be the one with the most inspired layouts I think.

I beat Quake 1 and its mission packs last month, and I'm holding off on starting Quake 2 until I clean up my backlog a bit. Are there any "must play" Quake 1 mapsets I ought to play in the meantime? I love Quake 1's movement and jumping more than I thought I ever would and it'd be great to spend some more time in it before moving on.

You're gonna be pretty unhappy with Quake 2. It's such a bad game. I think you should give a few of the top more recent maps on quaddicted a try. I really like Sock's maps, although they do feel a little bland at times.

That's another one I've yet to play. What exactly is wrong with it?

Terrible level design, fucking tons of back tracking, awful enemy design and weak as fuck feeling weapons. Some enemies attacks can't be dodged which is never enjoyable. Every level looks the same, awful use of colored lighting, and the music lacks a personality.

It's not as bad as that user is making it out to be honestly.

The game is still enjoyable despite obviously feeling like a dropdown from the first quake. I personally enjoyed the music and didn't mind the back tracking since It does not take that long at all to get to another level.

Enemy attacks can be dodged fairly easily.git gud

Is quake better than doom?

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Quake 1 has a shitty arsenal and less memorable enemies.

What he said, but the movement of Quake always felt orgasmic to me.

etto

Yes.

fuck off retard, learn a thing about the game your defending

I already know about Quake 2's movement, I just want definitive "you must play this" mapsets for Quake. Is there no "You want to play some fucking Quake?" image like there is for Doom? No top 100 list for Quake mapsets?

Are there any general techniques or mindsets about shooting and staying mobile? I feel that I can already do that to an extent, but that gets thrown out the window when you have to fight 3 shamblers in a row in nightmare mode in the second or third level of episode 1. I usually get the ring of shadows so I can pass by them and not waste ammo, but I feel there is a better way to go about that.

No. It was more influential though.

whatever you do, don't waste your rockets on them. maw them down with super nailgun

quaddicted.com/reviews/
check out maps by mfx, skacky, sock, scampie, tronyn, and the map jams.

I could have sworn I saw one before, but I didn't save it.

Don't fucking greentext pretending there was anything redeemable about Quake 2. Just because everything is fucking garbage and Quake 2 is slightly better than fucking garbage doesn't make it a good game.

So I recently got Quake 1 and its two mission packs. Mod recommendations? Things I should do to make it a better experience? I want to love Quake as much as I love Doom.

You are pretending that Quake 2 is bad, no doubt because you worship Quake 1 which is actually entirely overrated in the first place.

Quake 2 has a better arsenal, better enemies, better maps, and better technology. Quake 1 has a better "feel" and that's it.

It's reddit level of cancer when it play the clique game: they sucked Machine Games' dick and shamelessly gave a 4.5 out of 5 for the very bland and uninspired Quake episode Dopa, calling it "textbook Quake level design", "old school fun" and "very old school in terms of layouts and progression". Anyone else (that is to say anyone without a name) would have been trashed for such a poor and souless job.

I just played Quake II for the first time. I don't think it's as bad as says, but it's definitely a step down from Quake 1. Most of the weapons seem kind of clunky compared the first game, and the movement is much more restricted. It's almost like you're playing as a grunt or enforcer from Quake 1. I still need to play more of it, though.

How so? How does a range of unique weapons with unique purposes feel clunky next to Quake 1's arsenal of "this gun +" upgrades? You start with a shotgun, and the next upgrade is double barrel, you get the nail gun, and the next upgrade is a chain gun, even the grenade to rocket launcher upgrade falls into this. Quake 1's arsenal is shit, the only worthwhile addition it has over Doom is the grenade launcher, it's worse in every other way. Quake 2's arsenal on the other hand has variety and improvements over the original Doom arsenal beyond just a grenade launcher.

As for the use, Quake 1's weapons do not even handle as well as Quake 2's. With the exception of Quake 2's starter weapon being infinite ammo Quake 1 offers nothing better in its arsenal of samey crap.

I have a few issues with Quake II guns too:
They don't sound as good, most of them are slightly too slow to be enjoyable, and shooting animations aren't helping either. The biggest flaw is probably how enemies react to being shot (hint: they barely don't). Quake II feels heavier than the first (in the first game, you could gib an enemy and see its flesh flying all around, in Quake II, it's just "there, have a pile of stuff", like someone's throwing up)

But yeah, either way there's no memorable gun in Quake.

Here's a small speed maps compilation if you're interested (just run the stuff like any other mod, there's a start map and levels are loading one after the other, so you don't have to change them manually)
filedropper.com/sum

It's a good game, faggot. You really are bad if you can't dodge the enemy attacks at all.

Your opinion. Doesn't make the game bad.

you can't dodge the parasite attack, it's a homing hitscan attack that checks for the players position every tick and locks to it, you dumb fuck.

Reminds me of a certain Quake enemy. You should know which one since you're such a big fan of it

if you can't handle spawns the problem is on you, they have a very predictable V pattern, usually attack in groups and are prone to killing each other when they explode. They can be dodged and managed no problem, parasites are a bad enemy design. Try harder to change subject to defend your shit game with garbage level design, terrible enemy design, awful weapon design, and no fucking identity beyond it being a sequel to id's last great game.

No. Also

Fuck user, I thought you loved Quake :^)
Hint: G—-

No

Fuck user, I thought you loved Quake :^)

thanks kike

keep trying to derail you pussy

Huh, just did my first actual look at the Quake Champions stuff
Might be good, although I was always more into singleplayer Quake. I understand that even the one unique ability will be a deal breaker for some; but, is there something else I'm missing that people are mad about?

How am I derailing you nigger? You obviously couldn't figure out what fucking enemy uses hitscan in Quake

Your only fucking arguments of quake 2 are SHIT,SHIT,SHIT,SHIT with nothing fucking else. It's also a grunt you stupid fuck. They have hitscan. And just like the grunts you can also dodge the Parasites if you git gud you goddamn casual

lol

here, let me help you argue, how is anything in quake 2 good? How is the backtracking with an annoying klaxon blaring in the background on loop good? How is samey looking levels with no unique identity, poor use of colored lighting where at best you'll see something like blue used in a handful of rooms, but orange, red, and yellow flood the majority of the game, retarded and pointless shit like diagonal hitscan from the double barreled shotgun, lack of a melee weapon and instead the pathetic blaster, enemies with their most defining differentiating traits are the determining which ones say "fajitas!" and "cum-splatter!" because they all have identical grey and flesh colored aesthetics. How is a flying trash can a decent monster design? Maybe think of some redeeming points instead of saying "b-but all you said was this is bad!!" and taking the step to making an argument you insipid fuckstain

Arcane Dimensions. Adds a new shotgun, laser gun and an ax upgrade. The levels are pretty solid and more difficult than most quake maps.

what mods have good new monsters? Quake 1 could use some more enemy variety.

come on now

Ebin

Did you even play the first Quake?

I love how you're acting like I'm implying quake 2 is better than Quake. If you weren't a fucking moron you would've read the post, where I reply to you as well, and I clearly said "Quake 2 is enjoyable despite feeling like a dropdown from the first Quake"

It was my opinion and you couldn't help your autistic ass from getting angry as fuck because I told you to git gud.

there is nothing good about quake 2, good to know you can't retort a single thing, and concede this and are clearly entertained by garbage. Here's your mistake, however. Despite Quake's lack of colored lighting, each episode and each stage within each episode has a distinguished aesthetic. Is there a single quake 2 level that isn't a mess of steel plates and maybe a bit of orange-brown water?

In terms of multiplayer only, not much original needs to be done to create a competent Quake. Its not like a singleplayer game where you need to nail an atmosphere or try to keep stuff varied; no it's just regurgitating the old mechanics. Unless they go full retard which they might all they have to not fuck up is making good levels and balancing the new abilities both in terms of viability and keeping the abilities from becoming too focal.
No one should hype or pre-order. From my perspective though I don't see any warning flags other than the name Champions which of course brings up unsavoury connotations such as League of Legends or Overwatch; however, the character mechanic IMO isn't that bad and gives this one something proprietary when compared with the other Quake games. As far as I'm concerned cautious optimism seems an appropriate response.

I'd really like to see people stop making quake/style multiplayers. Every arena shooter these days is just a reskinned Quake. I's not interesting. I'd rather see new ideas rather than retread the same multiplayer I've had since the mid 90s.

You know what, fine I can't retort your shit. You do make a good point about the backtracking. But I still liked the music and sci-fi overall.

Would you have at least enjoyed Quake 2 if it had been called something else and not be a part of quake?

The abilities will already have a noticeable impact on the game's design. Unless you're suggesting shit like healing totems and teleports don't massively alter how a map is played in a game about item control and movement.

You also have stat differences between characters, with that dumb as fuck fast with low health slow with high health shit thrown in.

Also it's nu-id, which means that pretty much none of the talent is there, and it's being co-developed with console shooter devs just like DooD16. Apparently it isn't even on idtech anymore

The game's only possible saving grace is the rumored classic mode, and that's only if it pulls in and retains a decent number of players, and doesnt handle like ass. It's also kinda concerning just how much Willits jerks it over Rocket/Rail/LG, and more concerning when he suggests it's a signature part of Quake despite those 3 weapons only being usable together from Q3 onward

In some portions of Q2 you get dropped into literal box rooms with parasites in them. I still won because I was stacked as fuck, but it's not any less shit design-wise. Meanwhile, I never had a moment in Doom or Quake where I felt like I was just going to take 100% unavoidable damage. There was always some way to avoid them

I figured you were talking about Shamblers, who were basically the Arch-Viles of Quake, who you also get a decent amount of wiggle room to deal with

Either way though, enemy designs have to fit in with the levels, and Quake II's encounters end up being piss easy or kinda bullshit as a result of a combination of the two. It's clear that id suffered from a lack of Romero and/or McGee

The soundtrack is fun as fuck, however

Q2 didn't add any worthwhile guns and the enemy designs are ass. Fight me

probably not. I've never been interested in the argument of something sharing the name so it must be like everything else, sort of like when I see Doom fans criticize Doom 4 for not being "a real doom!" to me this is a wasteful discussion and is a distraction to actually discussing the content of the game.

Quake 2 is similar enough to Quake 1 that many of its elements could be directly compared, so even then I'd be comfortable comparing and finding the things Quake 1 does better. Even then, I'd compare it to its contemporaries, Blood, Duke3D just to name a few of my own favorites. These games also do many similar things far better, Blood particularly.

Changing its name is just a distraction to me, and doesn't add much if anything to the discussion.

Also, I'm sorry for coming off as hostile, a know-it-all, and smug in general. You know how these boards are, we always have something to prove, so we can be the authority who determines what gets established. I personally do not think I know everything about Quake, but I've worked with the games and the tech for a while, and feel comfortable in assessing the more technical or low-level nuances of the games, mostly because it's something I'm passionate about. I'm sure you're passionate too, and I'm happy to share that love for the same thing.

the rail gun is cool and I like the concept behind the hyper blaster, but it's sort of like a less satisfying super nail gun. Q3A's plasma gun took the same idea and nailed it far better and more meaningfully. Personally I like the idea of galvanized steel tearing through your targets flesh. Much more horrifying and brutal, befitting of the Quake style over burning them with plasma.

Fair points, but I feel as long as long as the abilities don't result in a less mobile game or feel too anti-fun when they kill you I'll probably be fine with it.

I put Quake 2 back on here and have been playing it online, but it runs so clunky and I can't play deathmatch worth a shit as a result.

The railgun is cool conceptually, but I'm not a fan of long range hitscan. I agree regarding the plasma and the nailgun, but unfortunately the plasma was handled far better balance-wise. If you get into QuakeWorld at all (as a player or viewer) you'll see very little of the nailgun and quite a lot of the Rocket Launcher and Thunderbolt. Meanwhile QL and CPM don't see a huge amount of plasma, but it absolutely is used effectively when it gets brought out, given that it has the highest DPS in the game and is great for area denial

I can't really see a point where a healing totem wont slow the game down, or where a teleport won't make railgun whoring more annoying for new/lower skilled players, but I guess we'll have to wait until it comes out to know for sure. All I know is that I hate that they're fucking with Quake's core combat (even if it is VQ3's for the most part) to bring in the OW audience instead of trying to make actual enhancements

Maybe 2GD will deliver

3D!!!!!1!!!11!11!

3D!!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!!!

Quake 1 purists are cancer. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Quake, but you act like it was something inherently special. The game is seriously overrated by you faggots.

I'm honestly not big into multiplayer any more, what I recall is that the plasma is great for area denial. If you get a hint someone is at a doorway, you pelt it with plasma and it generally cuts off entry entirely. The functionality of having it boost you with damage is great. It's a very specialized weapon otherwise, but successfully chaining hits together, isn't it something like 20 health and 16 or 18 on armored targets? This usually means a kill in 6 sequential hits, give or take.

Kinda wish the original Prey came out just so we could have more variety in arena shooters. Pretty great seeing a developer so enthusiastic about his work, which at the time was absolutely groundbreaking.

You seem immensely assblasted. Quake 2's art direction and level design were bland as fuck, the enemies were either pretty much Quake 1 enemies with worse art design or utterly shit, and the weapons that weren't just superficially not Q1 weapons were hitscan garbage and the blaster. As sadistic as it is, I'd rather use one of the weapon sets from Daikatana (except maybe Greece)

Not a purist either. I play CPM over QuakeWorld, started with Q2, and have spent about equal time in the first two Quakes

Yeah that's pretty much it. Damage isn't necessarily true though because Q3 armor is tiered (unless that's just a CPM thing, but I'm pretty sure it isn't)

Prey seemed pretty cool, and honestly there's been a lot of neat attempts at new arena shooters over the years. I'm hoping Diabotical, Blackroom and the other attempts at revitalizing that brand of shooter (from either a single- or multi-player direction) try to be a little more experimental, even if they have something "reliable" to fall back on

sorry for being an asshole too

I'm not convinced any new arena shooters have something meaningful to offer. I think Splatoon was great, ink was a superb central mechanic and I only wish it was expanded better in a more meaningful single player context. I want to see more interesting mechanics, a friend of mine had the idea of a skating system, and I could see how grind rails and everything could incorporate well with shooting, especially projectile shooting. I'd like to see more meaningful core mechanics that augment the shooting. I love bhopping, explosive boosts/jumps, but I want to see more things explored. I'm not familiar with Diabotical or Blackroom.

Also, all armor is tiered in effectiveness in all quake games, green, yellow, and red, but I don't think I need to tell you that.

Looked it up because I couldnt remember why I recalled a discrepancy. According to the wiki, VQ3 and Q4 don't properly tier. The YA and RA have the same damage reduction and capped armor value, while CPM uses the system that Q1 and Q2 had, where green (or green equivalent, in Q2's case) absorption is worse than red (or equivalent) absorption.

Also, regarding shooting it all depends on what you're looking for. Xonotic has some weird weapons (the electro being a fun standout, if situational) and an emphasis on weapon combos (you can switch during the reload/cooldown phase). CPM had a similar sort of emphasis with weapon switch being instantaneous
There's an AFPS where you can see your opponent through walls when they produce sound, forcing both of you to use a "quiet movement" system instead of the standard one. There's another one where you can drop forcefields and antigrav fields and shit. Wickland had the weapon drops be characters you'd transform into. Painkiller had shit like shooting your nade with a stake to turn it into basically a rocket.

There's experimentation out there, it just gets spread out a lot between a bunch of older or smaller projects. Diabotical has had some stuff in earlier versions like implosion rockets and momentum-reversing buttons that can form new combinations of attacks. There just needs to be a game that consolidates a bunch of these more experimental changes and creates a well designed game with them (that doesn't immediately drop down to 0 players)

Episode 3: The Netherworld was pretty memorable to me.

How do you rip off your own game?

Having a consistent setting isn't a flaw, faggot. You say it was bland, and I disagree. It was an industrial nightmare on an alien planet. This gives it a consistent scheme. Sorry if that doesn't leave room for blocky castles or whatever other faggy shit you wanted.

This is your opinion, and Quake 2's levels actually form a campaign. You aren't supposed to take each little map Quake 2 like a level, they are parts of the whole campaign. Was it implemented perfectly? No, but being different with a different goal doesn't make it bad or worse.

Ironic that this is now a flaw, being too much like Quake 1. Oh, but they somehow "look worse" than Quake 1's enemies. That's funny considering Quake 1's enemies are textured pudgy sacks of shit.

This is hilarious. Half of Quake 1's weapons are hitscan, and every single one of them is two versions of upgrades of the same weapons.

Quake 2 has:
The blasters (shit) which is not hitscan
Shotgun (superior feel to Quake 1's puny shotgun)
Super Shotgun (again superior feel)
Machinegun (Superior ammo management compared to nailgun)
Chaingun (Superior fire rate)
Hand Grenades (not hitscan, and rarely useful)
Grenade Launcher (10,000 times more awesome than Quake 1's sloppy physics grenade launcher)
Rocket Launcher (inferior to Quake 1's due to slower Q2 rocket)
Hyperblaster (Not hitscan, also is awesome)
Railgun (Easy mode due to overabundance of ammo for it and often one hit kill)
BFG10k (not hitscan, not nearly as good as BFG9000)

Quake 2's weapons are great and are hardly anything like Quake 1's baby step weapons. The problem is too many pickups within the game.

Quake 1's weapons reek of being held back by the limitations of the technology at the time. This is why you only see the weapon barrel and no hand. Compare to Doom where when the shotgun is fired a pumping animation with the hand is played. Quake 1 doesn't have a hand simulate pumping the shotgun because it would look like shit with the limited polygons they had to work with. This goes for why the nailguns exist and why they operate the way they do as well, engine limitations. This is also why there isn't a ton of weapon variety in Quake 1, it was limited.

Quake 1's advantage over Quake 2 is being balanced. It's a more balanced game and it can be picked up again and again similar to Doom. Quake 2 is a more story and campaign focused game, is too forgiving on pickups/enemy placement, and treats the maps like they are real places. This means Quake 2 isn't as replayable, but that doesn't mean it is bad and it sure as hell doesn't give a free pass to Quake 1's obvious as fuck flaws.

Do any of you remember Quake 4?

I love Quake 4, but it's so different I think they should've rather made it a spinoff rather than having it be in the main series (if that means anything). It's more of a modern shooter rather than an old school one.

I really goddamn love the Strogg. They're an interesting mix of scientific/engineering genius and crude and brutal species of sadist warriors. The enemies have some nice variety and the number of weapons is pretty good. The level design and aesthetics are mostly great. And Peter Stormare is Strauss.

Not all levels look great, though, and there's some pretty pointless turret sections. The vehicle maps are also quite poor, since both the tank and the walker are so powerful you cannot die in them unless you write for Polygon.

lmao

Agree. The moronic and useless teammates were a pain in the ass, and you had to wait for that scripted event for the main protagonist to become fast… but all in all Quake 4 was still better than Doom 3 IMO.

Will definitely give it a look. Any others?

you forgot that quake 2's weapons went through overbalancing, so in many cases things like the rocket launcher are more ineffective than the super shotgun, making the hyperblaster the only viable weapon. the weapon itself sounds pathetic too.

When your consistent design consists of room-corridor-room and your rooms are boxes with crates in them, it's shit. When your enemies are also boxes with guns on them, or are a blurry mess from a distance (a scenario that often occurs because big empty areas are Q2's fap fuel) that's also flat-out garbage. Get some taste faggot. Doom and Quake also managed to have consistency without looking like utter ass

Having a campaign in mind doesn't make box rooms any less boring. It sounds to me like youre defending garbage encounter design on the merits of "muh narrative" in a fucking id software game

"The enemies are superior"
"Bitch what? Theyre mostly the same shit but with worse art design"
"Haha I sure told you"
You're actually retarded. Now it makes sense

And stop playing Quake in 640x480. You'll realize that there's a greater level of visual distinction between enemies

Shotgun, super shotgun and the thunderbolt are hitscan, all of which are range limited. Nailgun, super nailgun, rocket and grenade launcher are not range limited, but have travel time. If you include the add on packs, there's even more projectile options, including a laser, new ammo types for existing projectile guns, and iirc a projectile ammo type for the thunderbolt

Q2 has a ton of mid-long range hitscan in comparison, which is garbage design.

Q2 has a shit starter weapon, a shotgun that is a little better than Quake's by virtue of being a pickup, two shitscan rapid fire weapons, a shittier super nailgun in the form of the hyperblaster, the railgun (which has been the worst Quake addition to date), and a bonus muh secrets weapon that is never useful because you constantly have fuckton of health and ammo and enemies run into walls and (outside of shitscan enemies) will often miss you entirely despite being the only enemy in the encounter. It's basically there so you can waste less time on the boss

I don't know where you get the idea that slower rockets = better gameplay, but that's retarded too

You gloss over the fact that the CG and MG, and the SS and Shotgun are the same setup as Quake's nailguns and shotguns because ammo conservation only matters in your favourite Quake, despite admitting that endless pickups make this pretty irrelevant anyway

Then you go on to talk about hands and animations like they actually matter. Your core points devolve into "it has a campaign" "it has more weapons" (quality be damned) and "muh graffix". You seem to have no understanding of good level design, and your arguments to the contrary involve aesthetics and narrative instead of layout. Maybe consoleshit is more your pace?

Also never argued that Q2 was utter shit, but I would definitely argue that it's the worst of the three worth noting

Currently playing it. Does it make sense to you if I call this mod Half-Quake or Quake-Life?

I know you all have your opinions but your opinions are simply shit and mine is inherently better, you fucking plebs.

Bow down to me.

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tbh sequels jumping the shark and having no relationship to previous games was iD tradition. they never really had any continuous titles.

It is obvious you only played the first couple of levels (if that) since this isn't even remotely true.

It's hilarious that you think Quake 1's enemies look better.

FTFY

More like

Quake 1's starter weapon is the fucking shotgun which sounds underpowered and is underpowered, the blaster in Quake 2 has no pretense about being anything other than the shit fallback weapon.

The machinegun and the chaingun are directly analogous to the nailgun and super nailgun. The hyperblaster has nothing in common with the super nailgun, they aren't even on the same tier.

I didn't say they were better, I said they were worse. I criticized actual flaws in Quake 2, because I'm not a faggot fanboy like you who makes up shit while pretending Quake 1 isn't guilty of the very shit you accused Quake 2 of.

They aren't the same at all. Quake 2's shotgun is a real upgrade, and its super shotgun is an upgrade over that. Quake 1's shotguns are garbage with the SS basically being reduced to normal shotgun in the weapon tier while the normal shotgun has replaced the standard (at the time) pistol. Same for the machinegun and chaingun, both are superior weapons to the nailgun trash in Quake 1.

The overabundance of ammo is a problem sure, but that isn't a mark against the superior weapons.

Its funny that things being low poly and "ugly" to you only matter when it's Quake 2, but Quake 1 which was too limited to even model hands holding the weapons gets a free pass.

And here you make shit up, because you sure as hell didn't get that from anything I said. Probably got this shit from the same place –your ass– that you got your claim that every room in Quake 2 is a box with crates in it. Making shit up isn't going to work, faggot. Can't you try being objective and honest for once?

I would say that it feels worse than Q1 (especially multiplayer) and that it is less replayable due to having a set campaign. I could agree that it is the worse, but being the worse doesn't make it bad or make anything it set out to do bad just because its "quake 2". It also doesn't give you an excuse to ignore Quake 1's flaws or to make up flaws for Quake 2.

Bare in mind it was designed by Raven not Id. It was moreso Id throwing the license at Raven and telling them to make another Quake using Doom 3's engine.

Another thing to consider is that Quake was not a game that was intended to have sequels. Quake 2 for instance wasn't the name Id wanted to go with, and they only went with it after nobody else came up with an alternative.

We can make a new one.

There's this chart for picking up the right engine, is this what you're thinking of?

The Saturn Port is pretty cool for the technical perspective due to how they got it running and looking better than the n64 versions in some ways.

Did a full playthrough of Q2 a couple months ago. The level design is ass and there's a lot of big open empty areas devoid of any interesting encounter design

Yes, you're retarded

It's a perfectly serviceable weapon that is useful for ammo conservation and does just fine on the damage front if you're actually hitting enemies

In terms of one being a lower damage, more ammo conservative version of the other, yes, but otherwise no.

Except for its rate of fire, its damage (2 more damage in Q2 unless we're talking MP numbers, which are worse) and its projectile travel time
You know, all the things that matter from a mechanical standpoint

50% of my damage in Xonotic is from Vortex, and LG-Rail is bread and butter in CPM. It's pretty much the easiest weapon to use optimally, and it offers no good means of counterplay.

No, I'm just pointing out that I didn't get free kills on enemies due to poor AI and placement

My bad then, I misread. Probably mixed it up with the line about the GL

You're now mixing up the arguments. My point was that your criticism leveled against Quake was not only applicable to Quake 2, but that Quake 2 has extra issues by virtue of its bland level design that exacerbate the issues it shares with Quake 1 (if you consider those to be issues in the first place)

You mean it's not a spawn weapon

Shitter confirmed

Another example of a graffix fag not understanding the difference between polycount and visual design

"Having a consistent setting isn't a flaw, faggot. You say it was bland, and I disagree. It was an industrial nightmare on an alien planet. This gives it a consistent scheme."

"Quake 2's levels actually form a campaign. You aren't supposed to take each little map Quake 2 like a level, they are parts of the whole campaign."

Please follow the conversation you're 50% of, faggot. I'm talking about actual level design and gameplay, and you go on about muh campaign and aesthetics. Quake 1 has an infinitely better layout, and better enemy placement to go with it. Much of Quake 2's late game involves wide open spaces and long hallways that would have been technically impressive, but are boring as fuck from an actual gameplay standpoint. The one objective thing Q2 has over Q1 is its tech, and it uses it to create dark as fuck sections with no encounters and big open spaces with 4 enemies in them. There's even a bit where they drop a boss into an area where he can easily be cheesed. Why bother? It's not even a power trip thing because he has a massive fucking health pool

no

You are a hypocritical faggot. I'm not even saying that Quake 2's enemies look good or are high poly, but Quake 1's definitely don't look any better.

It's useful only for ammo conservation, and barely at that since the super shotgun gets more use out of the two shells that it uses than two shells from the normal shotgun.

As I said though the Quake 2 starter weapon isn't really meant to be used except as a last resort. It's basically a long distance fist, which is why it is both slow, non-hitscan, and infinite ammo. It should really be compared to Quake 1's axe, which it is superior to since that thing is garbage.

Claiming they aren't analogous to those two is just plain dishonest. The only difference between the two is the nailgun wastes more ammo with each second than either Quake 2 bullet weapons.

Is making shit up fun? Also, it is clear that you don't even realize the having a separate ammo supply puts the Hyperblaster in a completely different tier. It's not a +1 upgrade of a different gun like the super nailgun.

As compared to what? 90% of Quake 1's MP is rocket/grenade spam while hopping around. So why are you pretending like skill is even in the equation? Using easy low skill weapons is a staple of scrub MP.

Tell that to hundreds of fiends I've killed because they couldn't navigate through an archway. Tell that to every ogre that has stupidly started infighting by just lobbing grenades everywhere.

I didn't even start criticizing Quake until the shitting on Quake 2 began, and I only originally brought it up because of hilarious hypocrisy where criticism of flaws aimed at Quake 2 completely overlooked the same exact flaws in Quake 1. Accusations of "bland level design" are subjective and can be met with equally subjective responses. Like that nearly every level in Quake 1 is a shade of brown or gray and are usually just funpark designs with no logical restrictions (not a flaw in and of itself). You then saying that levels designed to be an actual place (Quake 2) are "bland" and "just boxes with crates" when most of them have actual infrastructure to them is hilarious.

Yes, and no. I mean it's a real upgrade over the blaster while also not being a starter weapon.

Continued…

Try not being so retarded that you don't understand what is being said. The asthetics and campaign all have a bearing on the level design. You claimed that Quake 2 was nothing but rooms with crates, but this is demonstrably false in the FIRST fucking level. Yet you claim to have not only beaten it, but recently. Now to save face on being a complete fucking dumbass you try to twist my words after failing to get away with making shit up.

Quake 1 is a bunch of funpark levels with no logical consistency or narrative. They don't actually serve a purpose other than for the player to run around in. They aren't an alien factory, installation, prison, sewer system, etc. etc. They are just rooms strung together with traps, elevators, water, and enemies.

You can cry about Quake 2's levels not being funparks you can run around in, but that's purely subjective. My explanation that the astehtics and narrative are why the levels are the way they are in Quake 2 stands. You are just a retard who doesn't even understand what kind of game Quake 2 is.

You are just pissy Quake 2 isn't Quake 1: Again, when really you should be happy. If Quake 2 was just Quake 1, but better, then Quake 1 would be nearly forgotten by now. However since Quake 2 and Quake 1 were designed to be different in a number of key ways, they both have something unique to offer. Quake 1 is infinitely replayable fun (like Doom), and Quake 2 is a fun campaign to play through a few times. The games were never meant to be identical and that's a good thing.

In Doom, every enemy feels like it serves a distinct purpose and personality. You could group them to hitscanners-projectiles, chargers-snipers, weaklings-tanks, and you can tell these roles easily just by looking at them. In Quake however, they all just look like brown shit. Is there any argument to defend Quake's bad enemy design?

Quake's Fiends do those huge leaps forward, forcing you to strafe constantly when they're around (Dogs are easier versions of Fiends, so you can understand that monsters can do that, without being too much of a threat).

Ogres uses bouncing grenades, which makes them a priority to deal with, specially when they are located above you (something that happens very often in the game).

Scrag (aka Wizards) are the only ones who can fly, forcing you to aim up (yes, that's was a big deal to learn where to watch in 1996).

…

I admit Doom really went for a specific color for each monster (it got to the point when FreeDoom had to recolor enemies because people associated those colors with specific behaviors, which didn't work with the color scheme they used – like red barrels nowadays). But if you can't make the difference between a Fiend, and Ogre and an Enforcer, you probably need to wear glasses.

Quake enemies also have distinct purposes (ogres spam grenades from everywhere, shamblers force you into cover, vores are trying to be revenants, fiends just fuck your shit up, respawning zombies, varying degrees of melee enemies), hovewer due to the new improved 3d engine it's also easy to avoid fights altogether

and Doom enemy variety wasn't that great at all until Doom2, first doom only had the most basic enemy set with very basic attacks for the entirety of the game

You're a dumb faggot. If you can't tell Quake's enemies apart then you're blind. There's clear colour scheme and silhouette differences, and those lines get blurred a fuckton in Quake 2. Q1 has one enemy type with variants (grunts) and thats kinds shit. Quake 2 has not only more powerful enemies as variants, but uses those more.

There are enemies that require an odd number of shotgun hits to kill, and thats ignoring the spread on the super shotgun.

Go look it up, cunt. Then come back here and tell me what the difference is outside of "muh ammo type". It's literally a ported super nailgun, with a wind-up/down time, slapped onto cells (which would have gone to Thunderbolt/LG if id had better taste) instead of nails. By your logic, the SMG and Chaingun aren't the same because they're shitscan bullet weapons instead of nail based projectiles

Remember kids, when you don't know what you're talking about, oversimplify and call other people garbage

Just admit you have no ground to stand on, retard

What's the frequency of those incidences compared to the number of times enemies out in the open will run into each other and then have to reposition again, giving you plenty of time to fuck them both up?
For bonus points, please demonstrate an issue that isn't already present in Q2 to a bafflingly greater extent, even if only due to enemy placement

Irrelevant when the gameplay suffers. Quake 2's levels could be part of an overarching literary masterpiece about futility, but when the layout is garbage and sparsely populated, it means fuck all. Some of the later levels are, in fact, worse for this than the earlier ones, and unlike Doom they can't get away with arena-style encounters because their enemy count is too low. Quake 2 is a game that works to show off tech. But actively works against itself when it comes to its limitations. It's not Quake 4 or DooDMooM2016 bad, but it's nowhere near Quake's SP in terms of quality as a result. Same goes for Doom 1 and 2 quality honestly, even with Doom 2's handful of godawful levels

And even your complaints about non-gameplay portions of Quake's design are dumb as fuck. Christ

By that logic, I shouldn't criticize Donte, because without Tandem shitting on the franchise, people might appreciate DMC3/4 less
Or I could criticize games that come out below the bar a company set with its last title, like a reasonable person. Romero and McGee were sorely needed, if nothing else, on Quake 2.

Meant to say Tameem but who the fuck cares anyway

What the hell are you talking about? The weapon balance in Q1 is small, but excellent.

Your workhorse weapon is the rocket launcher, not the shotgun(s). It deals the most damage per second, fires fast projectiles with a large area of effect, and there's plenty of ammo for it to be found, in addition to Ogres being the only enemy type which drop any kind of ammo, which are rockets. However, due to the claustrophobic nature of the levels, sometimes the enemies will simply get too close for you to safely fire a rocket at them, as you may suffer from splash damage. And then you'll usually switch to a shotgun as it is safer to use. You'll usually have more ammo than you ever need for the shotgun, whereas solely relying on the grenade/rocket launcher is bound to have you run out of rockets eventually. Because of this, you are encouraged to mix up the weapons you are using. For example, firing two rockets at a far-away Fiend and finishing it off with a super shotgun blast when it is about to rip you to shreds.

Situations will still arise when the enemies are too close for the rocket launcher, but too numerous to be dealt with with the (super) shotgun alone. That's where the (super) Nailgun comes into play, as it has a higher DPS and range than the shotgun. However, it chews through ammo fairly quickly and the maximum amount of nails you can carry isn't particularly high, nor does one nail ammo pickup give you enough ammo to get past multiple enemies, unlike the shotguns. Therefore, the nailgun is more suited for short intense moments where you just need to kill a lot of things quickly.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that Quake is an episodic game. Every seven levels or so your weapons will be taken away, so the progression would be kind of fucked if you had an arsenal as big as Serious Sam over the span of seven short levels. Therefore, it also makes sense that there are Super variations of the shotgun/nailgun/grenade launcher, in order to enforce that feeling of progression. Although the normal shotgun has a tighter spread and is more accurate over a longer range than the SS, and the grenade launcher can be used to lob grenades around corners, the regular nailgun doesn't have anything over the super nailgun. Though in multiplayer, superior variants of certain weapons can influence area control in interesting ways. In addition, you also have the Thunderbolt, a powerful weapon which only appears later on in the episodes, or can be found earlier through secrets. Much like Doom's BFG, it is an emergency weapon which deals fucktons of damage and has the best range, but ammo for it is incredibly rare to obtain, and quickly spent. I'll say that functionally its too similar to the nailguns, aside from the fact that it is hitscan.

grunts drop shells and enforcers drop cells

Oh right, I forgot

kind of nice that grunts, who only appear early on, drop cells, so you'll have enough ammo to begin with when you get the Thunderbolt later on

Is there a modern definitive map maker for Quake?
Something like Doom Builder is for Doom n' Friends?

You can beat the game without killing anything so probably

I still use GTKRadiant 1.5.0 (ten years old, mind you). Alternatively, there's QuArK (seem to have improved over the years, but never really gave it a go). There's also TrenchBroom, which seem very promizing, but it's unstable.

The entire point of Quake 1 was Carmack putting together a 3D engine. The entire Quake series was basically Carmack's tech demos. Have you read Masters of Doom?

quake 3 is a prime example of "it's good if you mod it!"

the game is completely barebones otherwise, and you don't have any single player campaign other than playing on multiplayer maps with bots (while doom1/2 and quake1 were the exact opposite and exposed tweaked single player maps as multiplayer arenas). and like, 2 game modes? ctf and few variations of "shoot each other". quake 2 had both singleplayer and multiplayer content so it has an excuse, quake 3 has not. and ut was better

You're moreso arguing aesthetics and not gameplay.

A lot of the enemies in Doom look different but don't really make you change your tactics as much as maybe switching to a different weapon.

In Quake, I change my tactics to adapt to literally every enemy. Enemies like the footsoldiers I'll use the regular shotgun or the double shotgun to save ammunition with. When there are groups I'll use the nailgun. I'll go in close to maximize damage with it.

However with enemies like Ogres you must adapt to how they fire their grenades at you when you're far away and use a really powerful melee attack when you're close. You have to duck and weave to avoid damage. The same with Fiends who are lethal at close ranges and jump at you from far away.

Then you get into the stronger enemies like Vores which require you to literally run away from their projectiles due to how accurately they home in on you. And the Shambler which requires very quick movement and a mix of moving far away and staying close enough to still keep hitting it.

Quake had much less "shoot it till it dies" gameplay. I had to think about where I was and how I was attacking an enemy much more. It was a consequence of how the game was polygon based and how they could only spawn a maximum of maybe 5 enemies in a single room. And how it was the first FPS to really capitalize on mouse aiming and wasn't mostly played by people who used keyboards like Doom was when it first released.

if only it hadn't been weighed down by slow level design.

Don't get me wrong, I love the traps, and most of the design in Quake is pretty good. The problems arise with shit like slow elevators, key puzzles, and stupid mazes where you just walk around with a bunch of corpses because you don't know where to go next.

IMO, with a linear shooter, the correct level design balance is somewhere between Half Life and Quake.

By the way, what in the everloving fuck happened to the level and enemy design in Quake 2? That was the most boring shit ever. Hell, the weapon design sucked too. Seriously that entire game was such a downgrade in every way compared to Quake 1.

UT has more content, but worse gameplay.

Quake 3 is like a chess set- you don't get anything but a board and some pieces, but the gameplay is very good. It takes the kind of person who only cares about the gameplay to enjoy it.

Having more content isn't a good thing in and of itself, because only the core gameplay is what can hold your attention.

It really comes down to whether or not you would like to play a game like chess, or a game like life. Life has all sorts of content, but the core game is shallow. (this is not a comparison of life to ut)

This has more to do with the technical limitations of having 3d enemies on 3d plane on 1995 hardware with no hardware rendering (and GPUs were available for quite a while but quake/unreal developers wanted to actually sell their games, which means making a game that works on hardware that didn't cost you a hand and leg). Since sprites are cheap they could shit enemies all over the place in Doom, designing encounters around hordes of demons approaching you from everywhere. That amount of enemies couldn't fly in the new engine so they had to design Quake monsters so each of them would be very dangerous individually, as they could only put handful of them in one area.

Reminder that the Shambler also has a resistance to explosives.

I like the levels in Quake, every map can be completed in 5-10 minutes and every episode lasts about an hour.

For the longest time with Quake it was a game I would use to test a new mouse with. Because it was really fast to complete and required very precise aiming and movement.

It's also great for custom maps since the game has so many custom maps and they're almost like free bite sized content

And I prefer this game design philosophy of having meatier tougher enemies you have to adapt to rather than just hordes of them.

Unless you have quad damage

Whether or not you have the quad damage, damage of explosions is halved for the Shambler. Sure, you deal more damage because you have the quad damage, but his resistance is still there.

In weapons.qc:

if (other.health)
{
if (other.classname == "monster_shambler")
damg = damg * 0.5; // mostly immune
T_Damage (other, self, self.owner, damg );
}

You're describing the Quake 3 gameplay but completely ignore that UT is it's own thing from the point of gameplay. UT isn't as straightforward in gameplay and half of the weapons are completely outlandish compared to quake guns which all of them spew some kind of projectiles directly in front of your crosshair. The gameplay of UT wasn't changed much from single player focused Unreal which is why team modes work better with UT than standard FFA modes, which turn quickly into a mess with more players. And that's why UT has many varied content and different game modes compared to Q3 - they couldn't just get away with dropping players on open maps and tell them to shoot each other like spastic monkeys because UT doesn't work that way.

Once you accept UT as something different from Quake, you'll realize UT as a game is superior to Q3, at least when we'll compare them unmodded.

you CAN complete every map in 5 minutes if you already know where everything is. Hell, if you're an expert rocket/strafe jumper, you can beat most levels in Quake in under a minute.. If you don't, you're going to take upwards of 20 or 30 for some of them.

so quake is really checking for damage amount for shambler in rocker class rather than shambler class itself? yandev tier programming right there

Even at the time Quake's maps were really small compared to other games like Duke Nukem 3D. Indeed most Quake maps tend to be much more straightforward and the only real thought process you have with completing them is to find a key to open a door. I remember John Romero even said at the time that several maps had to be cut down in size because he set a maximum limit of 1.4 megabytes per map. And he later released this extended part of one of the maps that was intended to be much longer.

Indeed this was a complaint people had with Quake at the time of it's release, that it wasn't as interactive as Duke Nukem 3D. It's why I've found the game has improved considerably with Source Ports because you can run it in higher resolutions and at faster framerates. Compared to the choppier framerate, movement and inconsistent mouselook the original DOS and Winquake exes had.

This minimalist simplicity of design is something I really like about Quake. And it's something I've noticed good Quake custom maps tend to adhere to.

this is quakeC, there are no classes… nothing is "in" a class.

Yes, they did it on the rocket/grenade explosion side. And that's because if you were to inflict the damage (to the Shambler) from the shambler, then you'd need to also code a "I got hit by a rocket" routine for every other enemy ("oh, I got hit by something, it's a rocket/grenade, inflict that many damage to myself"), which is becoming a pain in the ass to maintain if you decide to rebalance the damage caused by explosives, or you're going to add new enemies.

It's really something I actually miss from the games around the change of millenia, the clearly readable level geometry. Everything is nowadays just cluttered with random shit.

For some reason you are too stupid to understand that I never called the normal shotgun useless. Of course it is better at range than the SSG. Your odd number of shotgun shells shit doesn't even matter because the game shits more shotgun ammo at you left and right.

The nailguns are fucking "shitscan" you retard. How can you be so stupid? The nails are just drawn on the screen, the damage isn't linked to that effect.

Why are you so retarded? I never criticized you for using any weapon. I use the rocket launcher and grenade launcher. My point tied into your stupid shit about the railgun. Learn to fucking read maybe?

Quake 1's enemies fuck up all the time, and fiends jumping uselessly at an archway while I kill them has happened everytime there has been an archway between me and them. Your shit about Quake 2's enemies I've rarely seen.

Not irrelevant at all when the gameplay isn't meant to be "run around a funpark".

Calling Quake 1's level design "funparks" isn't a complaint you retard.

Or I could criticize games that come out below the bar a company set with its last title, like a reasonable person. Romero and McGee were sorely needed, if nothing else, on Quake 2.

Quake 2 isn't below the bar. It is different. You took my "you should be happy" to imply that Quake 2 being "bad" in your faggy eyes is what I meant? No, I literally addressed it being different. DmC is objectively shit. Quake 2 is not, and nearly every complaint you have had about it is just that it isn't Quake 1. DmC has far more wrong with it than just being different.

Why do I even bother though? You are obviously a fanboy who doesn't give one shit about objectively weighing the merits of games. Quake 1 is perfect to you and you can turn around and criticize Quake 2 for the exact same shit without any care about what a fat hypocrite you are.

You are cancer.

Shitty arsenal was aimed at variation and theme of the weapons. Not how useful they happen to be in that particular game.

No, you just used the worthless term "underpowered" to describe a spawn weapon like a big dumb cunt

quake.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperblaster_(Q2)
wiki.quakeworld.nu/Nailgun

I was wrong about one thing though, the hyperblaster's projectiles are actually almost twice as fast as the super nailgun, which is probably needed in Quake 2's big empty rooms and hallways. I cant remember where I found the number on that though, so I can't spoonfeed you any more

How about
in response to me pointing out lack of skill when using a weapon optimally, unless you're calling the MP itself scrubby, or suggesting that the use of projectile weapons are scrubby, both of which are just as retarded as my initial interpretation

No, it's very much below the bar. You have yet to address any of my actual complaints concerning level design, you have yet to outline how Q2's weapon set up is even on par with Q1's when every firefight in Q2 is just slinging damage as opposed to intelligent weapon usage, and your upsides are "it's a campaign" and "it's a cohesive world" which are casual as fuck reasons

Quake 2 is objectively worse than Quake 1 for many of the same reasons DmC is worse than DMC. It's a dumbed down experience that tosses away many of the signature elements of the original while even managing to fuck up a lot of what it kept. It's not on the same tier as DmC, but it's noticeably lower than the original Quake

I was paraphrasing, and having a little fun with it. Figured that would be obvious.
As well, I never said that Q2 was bad, just that it's a clear step down from Quake

Also never said Quake 1 was perfect. Maybe you'd prefer to argue with that strawman, but my points will still be here waiting for you when you're done sperging out at it

Please learn about the games you're talking about instead of showing off what a shitty casual you are

Compared to Doom and Quake 2's shotguns it is underpowered. Get over it.

No, faggot, "nightmare".

You were wrong about both things.

Exactly. A fan wiki doesn't mean shit. They are hitscan weapons regardless of what fans like you have pretended in your heads while playing.

No, my point was you bitching about railguns for that reason was hypocritical like damn near everything you have claimed about Quake 2. Do you have to try hard at being this retarded?

Claims a faggot. Why should I care what your opinion is when you can't even get basics about the game you are criticizing right?

No, Quake 2 is objectively different from Quake 1 with a different goal and mindset behind it. Your crying about it not being an exact clone of Quake 1 is just pathetic. Dislike Quake 2 all you want, but at least get your shit right. You just throw blatant lies out left and right. It reeks of small penis syndrome, like you have to compensate for some failing you see in Quake 1 by bashing Quake 2.

It's only a step down if you expected it to be like Quake, which is to be a funpark Doom style FPS where setting and narrative don't matter. Quake 2 was designed to be a campaign, this means that all the shit you like about Quake 1 would not fit. That's just addressing the more "legitimate" gripes you have had. The vast majority of your gripes have been lies, like that every room is a corridor or box shaped room. The first level alone has waterways, open areas, hallways, damaged walls leading to cliff, elevators. Nothing as retardedly simple as you claim. In fact not a single area in the game is as simple as you claim.

Then there's the topic of monsters, which you went full retard on. You claim Quake 2 enemies all look the same when this too can be disproven. There are more humanoid enemies (due to the setting), but each enemy makes a distinct sound and has a distinct look. You claiming Quake 1 enemies are better is hilarious when half of them are just some kind of brown or flesh color, yet that makes them "distinct". Using hardware yeah you can easily tell them apart, but back when Quake 1 released? Did you even play back in the day? At any distance not twenty feet in front of you they were all reduced to blobs of brown.

It's simply amazing how hypocritical you can be.

You're retarded and missed my entire point

I repeat, you are retarded

says the casual campaignfag trying to save face. How long before "I was just pretending to be retarded"?

Despite the fact that my favorite version of Quake wasn't made by id, and isn't a clone of Q1. Of course

also

No, it's a step down if you wanted a good shooter instead of just an okay one

It has empty waterways, open areas, hallways that are open areas, damaged walls leading to open areas, and elevators, where no gameplay takes place. Please try harder. When does the campaign make up for the fact that the level geometry does the enemies and the player's movement no favors, and where it promotes skilled play?
Oh that's right, it doesn't

which is completely irrelevant when they blob up on the other end of an oversized room.

Also

Coincidentally Quake has much smaller maps and thus enemies are generally a lot closer. Even at points where this isn't the case, it's possible to tell what they are quite quickly. I've cranked the resolution down and still been able to tell enemies apart just fine

How many cocks must bb3678 gobble to protect Quake 2? Find out on his next faggoty post

I tire of these useless no u responses. I'm going to just ignore them from now on.

Nightmare has an abundance of shotgun shells, unless you waste them. Do you?

They have as much bearing as a fan wiki.

No, wrong again. The hypocritical part is you used this as a Quake 2 flaw when its a flaw in pretty much every MP. The railgun is strong, so what? The rocket launcher is strong. Both get overused by low skill scrubs. No that doesn't mean using them makes you a low skill scrub, but having to rely on them in MP does.

So once again, try to read what I'm saying; You are being hypocritical in your criticisms of Quake 2.

A fairer criticism would be to say (as I pointed out) that the railgun has too much ammo for how powerful it is. It being powerful is not a flaw with the game though anymore than the BFG9000 in Doom is a "flaw" (and retardedly overused if you ever put it on a MP map).

You are too stupid to know the difference between having taste and appreciating something objectively versus hating something because it is different.

Your analogy of DmC didn't fit precisely because you don't understand what I'm talking about. DmC has objective flaws. It plays like shit, it was developed by people who shit on the fans, it is a reboot, and absolute shit writing. Quake 2 on the other hand is just a loose sequel to Quake 1. It isn't a reboot. It isn't tied to its universe, and it isn't focused on being "Doom in full 3D" like Quake was. You don't like that it was designed for a campaign? That's your fucking problem. You aren't hardcore just because you don't want any game with a campaign. You are just a retarded fag.

Doesn't matter what you want to pull out of your ass now. What you wrote shows exactly what I said. Nearly every flaw you have mentioned has been about it being different from Quake 1. Now you want to pretend that Quake 4 is your favorite? Well that just makes you even more of a hypocrite since many of those "flaws" are present in that game and the ones that don't are from advances in technology.

What an unbelievable faggot you are. The game isn't made to be just like Quake. It can't be a "step down" when it isn't meant to be the same. It's a different direction. Having a campaign focus isn't going down some steps, it is walking the other direction.

KYS, please, you unbelievable faggot.

words words words words words words words words words
am I the only one skimming past this shit for good maps/mods
Quake2 is still shit

Congratulation! You've seen through the endless sandwiches of green text replies and noticed this post. Here's your gift: it's called Malice for Quake, and it's a feature-packed total conversion from 1997. It introduces many "never seen before" stuff (or at least not as widespread back then) such as gun reloading, cutscenes, weather effects, pushable crates, destructible environments and dismemberment. It doesn't look great and you better enjoy maze-like levels, but it's fast-paced and even the default pistol is fun to use.

Quick note on special keys if you don't feel like reading README.TXT (why is it in capital letters, user. WHY?!): impulse 12 to reload your gun (set to "r"), impulse 13 to use the currently selected item (set to "U"), impulse 14 to cycle through your items (set to "Y", the currently selected item appears on the bottom left side of the status bar). Fully compatible with QuakeSpasm (or QuakeGL/WinQuake), doesn't work properly in DarkPlaces.

Get it here: filedropper.com/malice

My thoughts exactly.

because it was 1997 and people still were still using DOS tools and games, so there was no place for fancy filenames with unicode shit and more than 8 chars

What a great way to discuss things. Miss the point like a complete moron and then when you get called in it stop talking about it entirely. I just gain more and more respect for you every day, faggot

When nothing you've said so far is true, why would I take your word for it?

Not when you back them with jack and shit, cunt
Post proof or continue gobbling cocks. Datamined content used by the community is more reliable than some random dipshit on Holla Forums

Again, you don't understand that the issue isn't the railgun's strength, but how it's designed overall. It's a shitty weapon with a poor skill curve that gets tossed into every single Quake offshoot despite not really deserving it

Just because DmC wasn't what you wanted, doesn't mean it's a bad game user :^)

Except I made it very clear at the start what my stance on the Quakes was

Wew
Please develop a sense of reading comprehension you massive faggot

It's a step down if you dont maintain quality. I've explained how that's the case, and your only argument has been "Nuh uh because I said so post proof faget" while also discounting any source you personally dislike in favour of your own nonexistent credibility.

Also I don't see why you're acting like I'm backpedaling here. My stance has always been that Quake 2 isn't some irredeemable pile of shit, but is instead just a very noticeable step down from the original. If you want to argue against some fake-me who hates every part of the game for no reason then you can feel free to do so, but do it on your own time.

I don't think I'm going to bother with this shit anymore. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm actually saying, and probably don't understand why layout trumps artistic and contextual factors in an id software game. You beg to be spoon-fed proof but don't bring any yourself and show complete ignorance of Quake's mechanics both in SP and in MP.

You ultimately seem more content to argue with a strawman, so I'll let you do that. I'll just wait around for more maps and discussion from people who know what they're talking about.

Except I said I wasn't going to respond to the no u portions of your responses, which have no substantial points to address.

Are you talking about yourself now?

And the wiki was backed by what again?

Nice of you to ignore everything else I said about DmC. You haven't had a legitimate complaint about Quake 2 yet that didn't rely on it being different from Quake 1. Do you understand that flaws aren't "it was different"? Are you so autistic that you didn't know why people hated DmC and just assumed it was because it was different?

And you continue to lie.

Well you sure have a mystery to reveal to me there user.

Continuing to lie about the quality of Quake 2 isn't going to work.

No the point is legitimate complaints vs retarded complaints. You have supplied nothing but the latter.

What's the best sourceport for Quake?
Darkplaces?

Went from DarkPlaces to QuakeSpasm because DarkPlaces has some compatibility issues with Scourge of Armagon. Check for a "best port" chart (it doesn't mention NPR Quake, which is a shame, but also… something too different maybe).

So. I tried could (by Robert P Gove Jr, aka RPG). It's a dark and stylish base map, not very long, fairly linear yet very enjoyable. Definitely give this one a go!
quaddicted.com/reviews/could.html

Anyone else's playing custom maps?

Some more maps:

dm5rmx (Round The U-Bend) by Andrew "than" Palmer. It's a redesign of DM5 (Cistern). Not sure it's the best gameplay out there, but it's a really interresting take on a classic deathmatch map.
quaddicted.com/reviews/dm5rmx.html

ac (Adamantine Cruelty) by Dmitry "Vondur" Svetlichny. It's one of those "sewer maps", but it actually feels like Quake, and plays like an endurance run (you better be ready for the ending). Real cool stuff, doesn't seem like it at first.
quaddicted.com/reviews/ac.html

ant (Antediluvian) by John Fitzgibbons is wet and windy. I thought it would be yet another Wind Tunnels, turns out I was thankfully wrong. This one has a fever dream feel to it: there's really something oppressing in the architecture, almost like a Jacob's Ladder vibe. The gameplay is also solid.
quaddicted.com/reviews/ant.html

thx

If this thread is still alive in five hours, I'll test some more.

That is part of the code which is run when a rocket touches something, it's done via a function pointer.