What do the self-employed do when the revolution comes?

What do the self-employed do when the revolution comes?

Stop paying themselves

Pick a side.

They're petty bourgies. They give up their shit or get gulaged.

Are you meming me? See you always tell my you wont come after my toothbrush. Then this.

When I say their shit I mean their stores, business facilities, equipment, etc. These are all qualified under means of production. They can still be a part of their business, even manage it (under the watchful eye of their workers of course), they just won't be the sole owner.

SO what about a situation where nearly half the population is self employed? At this stage it begs the question 'You and what army?'

they fire themselves. and then they go after marxist communists for wrecking the economy with dumbass social policies that have been proven to not work at all…

Such a society wouldn't be the kind of environment where socialism would be popular in be first place, and I wouldn't advocate pursuing socialism in such a place. If it did then there would be one hell of a bloodbath no matter who won.

sounds like that world is already half way to socialism to me now the other half just has to become self employed

It is the way the UK is heading. Fair enough, it will probably never get to 50/50. But we're currently 5 million self employed. The VAST majority of these people come into the 1-5 employees category, inclusive of themselves. That's to say, a good number of these 5 million self employed either employ nobody else or employ family. And their 'means of production' often doesn't extend much beyond a van.


What you say here. Do you think this is an element of why there is such little class conscious leftism in the west today? I mean looking even beyond the self-employed, is it possible that some in the west are too comfortable for socialism? I mean a lot of people seem content to get by on their minimum wage for the minimal effort the job requires. I'm not saying they should just accept their lot in life as permanent and be grateful for it. I'd be all for a bit of redistribution. But is revolution, in the traditional marxist sense, relevant in the west today? If not, what should leftism focus instead on?

Usually? Anarchism (i.e. AnCap of some variety). Petit-Bourgeois usually join the suppression of the old order (first part of Revolution), but refuse to accept new one (second part).

I'll quote Trotsky here:

I know this has a very specific meaning, and I expect that is the context you are using it in, but it still doesn't seem right. The self-empoyed over here (UK) are largely not some upper-middle class silver spoon babies looking for a hobby but people fed up with the jobseekers system over here who now clean houses or walk dogs for a living. ie. a lot of the time it is not a choice, or if it is it was seen as preferable to minimum wage in a supermarket or call center.


I think they would only join a counter revolution if you try to take what little they have


Now this is kinda getting to my point. The proletariat, if defined as those who sell their labour for a wage, are a shrinking group in the west. It strikes me (and I'm dumb as fuck when it comes to this stuff) that the theory you quote was for a different time, when 99% of workers worked for a capitalist. Self-employed seem to raise a new issue that doesn't seem to fit well with the the orthodox theory.

I'm with the socialists. I've got maybe 5 years before the larger companies drive me out and as it is I'm basically an employee who doesn't get insurance.

This is a good point. If I haven't made clear already ITT, the vast majority of these self-employed are far from getting rich of it. Much of it is just keeping the head above the water.

They can't hire anyone else on without turning over part of the ownership.

they're not petty bourgeoisie. They're self employed "'workers'''. Emphasis on the Worker part you stupid fuck

Yeah. My MoP is a toolbag and a 2011 Chevy Colorado. I'm better compensated than a lot of my peers, but I make about as much as an electrician or other specialized labor. The only reason I'm able to stay self-employed is because I'm working an area it isn't currently cost effective to have employees perform warranty service and for non-warranty repairs there isn't a lot of competition in my area yet. This will probably change within 5 years.

Forget the guy who replied to you, I personally am going to come for your toothbrush.

Joke's on you I have HIV.

Yeah, I know. Self-employed are also being exploited, even if indirectly.

My point is they are predisposed to have the mindset of "independent actor", unlike that of Proletariat: their labour is alienated to the lesser degree, they are co-operating with their colleagues less often, they are not being directly annoyed by their employer.

Well, I don't have an example of modern Socialist revolution to rely on.

Not really. Theory works perfectly, it's simply less obvious. Self-employed are often also - partially - Proletariat. Even with UBI you will have (a kind of) exploitation - simply because Capitalists control the production of goods you use.

I need to write a long and proper explanation about this - with quotes - or find one somewhere.

You're not petty bourgie if you don't have employees, freelance workers will be welcome to join the revolution.

Well I'd look forward to reading that as your posts are generally well structured and informative, if you're Mustachio I think you are. from eco-revisionism thread on other board.

But no pressure.

We transform all companies into co-ops .

Pretty straightforward. If the guy is a freelancer or something else, then he has no employees and thus nothing to expropriate.
If he does have employees, and he is any good at managing his company, then he shouldn't have any trouble devolving ownership down to his employees and being elected to run things.
If he has employees and is a useless sack of shit parasite, then the business will run much better when he is removed.

HIV is not the biggest hazard when it comes to toothbrushes tbh, herpes on the other hand…