HOW DOES IT FEEL TO HAVE OFFICIALLY WASTED TWO GAMES' WORTH OF YOUR LIFE ON THIS NOW?
Yeah, literallly the entire last 20-30min of exposition is nothing but a non-canonical "another ending" shtick
I'm totally positive that's what you always intended all along
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK
Also, Zero Escape, Virtue's Last Reward, Zero Time Dilemma thread
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“First of all, it seems necessary to clear up the misunderstanding about Kyle and ‘?’.
So-called ‘? END/Another Time End’ was added as anomalistic irregular bonus.
That was a kind of ‘afterword’ written in a conversational format. In that scenario there was no meaning to supplement main story.
That was a story in higher realities/dimensions and metafiction. That is not connected to main story time-sequentially. Therefore that is not canon.”
And later:
“I think I made two mistakes in VLR.
NO, YOU MADE WAY MORE THAN THAT
1: I added the voices in ‘Another Time End’ in the international version. 2: In the flowchart, I put ‘Another Time End’ on the place after/below Phi End. For these reasons, many players misunderstood as if ‘Another Time End’ is canon. I really regret that.”
The bluebird… The bluebird is dead and we strangled it ourselfs.
Was 999 related to this?
Yeah 999 was the first game in the trilogy and unfortunately the only truly good one.
Y'all nigger need to get back to the Infinite series, Ever17, Never7 and forget all this 999 shit.
BULLSH*T
It was so obvious it was sequel baiting and he knows it he's talking out the other side of his mouth
No that is literally EXACTLY what it means, which is fine enough since almost everything but Sigma and Phi was horribly retconned in ZTD and that's the last game.
VLR
was
completely
POINTLESS
tl;dr Please don't hate me
“Was ‘Another Time End’ all nonsense? Was it meaningless? Of course that’s not true. I’ll explain.
this gonna be good
(However what I write from now is not necessarily the correct answer. Id like you to interpret this as one of the tentative theory. Because Zero Escape series has already been out of my hands, and now it’s owned by the players. If there is a theory that makes more feasible or convincing than mine, you can adopt it as your canon.)”
OH GOOD! WE'RE GOING THE UMINEKO ROUTE NOW!
WHY can't Japanese mystery fiction writers not suck?
“It goes without saying that what is the identity of ‘?’. It’s as many players are presuming. At least, I wrote ‘Another Time End’ in VLR with the intention of it. Also there is no doubt that ‘?’ intervened in ZTD.
WHAT
In order to imply that, the ability of Mind Hack by Delta was set to resemble the things that ‘?’ can do. You can choose one you like from the following 3 theories: The character did it or Delta did it or ‘?’ did it. The choice is yours.”
NO IT ISN'T, YOU HACK!
YOU EXPLICITLY EXPLAINED IN PAINFUL DETAIL THAT DELTA WHAT ZERO, DELTA HAD THE MIND HACK POWERS, AND DELTA WAS DOING EVERYTHING IN ZTD
DID YOU FORGET YOUR OWN WRITING?!
But really, we know what this is:
>OOPS! OH SH*T! I messed up bad! Nothing makes sense, the retcons are awful and I wasted the biggest hidden plot point of the last game which I used specifically to entice people to look forward to another game! uh… UH…. UHH…
>THEORIES! I-IT'S REAL IF YOU WANT IT TO BE! P-PLEASE DON'T HATE ME!
Man I sure feel good about myself for not playing this series beyond 999
DoubleDubs seems legit. I never played Ever17 or Remember whatever, the other one people keep saying is good. Maybe it is. I don't know.
Honestly though, I can't even be bothered. This is brutal.
This series was more of a waste of hours of my life than dying repeatedly in Demon's Darkborne
It doesn't.
“When creating ZTD, I wasn’t based on ‘Another Time End’. Because not every players of VLR saw ‘Another Time End’. There are a lot of players who didn’t get all Gold Files.
I don't think you even needed all the gold files, right? I wanted to make ZTD so that even they can enjoy the story.”'''
“In passing, I’d tell you about Kyle. I said that ‘Another Time End’ was metafiction. Therefore I’d like you to interpret Old Akane’s words in ‘Another Time End’ as metafiction. This means that she was talking toward the player in this REAL WORLD. She said ‘He (Kyle) has arrived at December 25th, 2028.’ And now is 2016. This year isn’t 2028. This is my plan.”
“I’m often asked like ‘Where is Kyle?’ The short answer is this. ‘He will be in 2028.’ I hope this is useful for you. Thank you!”
Now I've never played this series, but man do some developers come up with good ways of completely sidestepping answers. It's as bad as the western Silent Hill games.
How bad is VLR? I still never played a single game in the series. Should I emulate it or wait for the inevitable PC port?
VLR is hard to really assess because from a game standpoint a lot of things are seemingly improved but the story is basically entirely ass. I personally do not recommend it because aside from one ending I found everything to be just shark jumping and anti-climax sequel hooks and the puzzles weren't good enough to carry the game.
VLR for me was my favorite of the series, a couple of the endings gave me major feels. 999 is technically more impressive but VLR i feel is an acceptable but flawed sequel.
SCHRODINGER'S CAT the excuse: the game
Fucking
told you
so
All of you people in the ZTD going on about "?" and waiting for Uchikoshi's word on the identity of the player in ZTD. It's exactly as shitty as it seemed.
*in the ZTD threads
this kind of bullshit that makes me hate writers, it's such a easy way out, this is most pathetic and cowardly act a writer can perform,he adds a lot of crap, can't explain half of it, "it's for the fans to decide whatever is the correct answer" since the HACK didn't know how to finish, fuck him and fuck this series.
I wouldn't say that it's a bad game, but it's felt like more of a VN than 999. 999 seemed more focused on puzzles, in my opinion. I preferred 999, if it wasn't already obvious. I haven't played the most recent game and have no plans to.
Another reason why I don't like VLR very much is that a lot of the story was spoiled to me. Have you guys seen the spoiler pic with all the characters and each twist about them was written above them? Yeah, I glanced at that by accident, but the damage was already done. Fuck whoever does stuff like that. It wasn't even a spoiler or VLR thread.
I remember that. One user had a long theory that the player ? and Delta were either co-conspirators or that you were somehow a part of the game as a character
Or that you were Delta (which made no sense even then)
It's actually a genius move when pulled off right. For all the GLARING plot holes and tonal schizophrenia of Danganronpa, and despite that retarded "Bear Apocolypse" reveal during the final trial, the ending was intended to be open prescisly so the player could speculate as to what the truth was.
Remember that Junko was presented as a lunatic, impulsive usurper rather than a grand genius, using technology made by other students (which she didn't even fully comprehend). She was also a chronic liar, going so far as to say "If I die, poison gas will kill you before you leave."
So even that excruciatingly vague confirmation by Genocider about the Big Bad Day or whatever nonsense it was, was still up in the air. For all the player knew the characters opened the door to find a whole city of citizens, police, firefighters, news crew etc. waiting for them.
…Until Danganronpa continued, and everything just got worse and worse.
Another, better example, is how Alice: Madness Returns ended. McGee had more in mind for the story and didn't have the funding or time for it then, so it ends rather vague regarding Alice's mental state, closing on a visual image of reality and wonderland blended together. For the player (though not intentional on McGee's part) they could choose to believe that Alice finally snapped and is permanently crazy, or that she now has the confidence of her alter ego in the real world, no longer being a hapless victim.
–McGee's official statement, if I recall, was that she was now a "master of both worlds", which suits the "confidence" theory.
youtu.be
TL;DR Games (and novels, for that matter) have pulled off the "audience's perspective is canonical" thing before with varied success.
The problem here is that
THIS WAS NEVER THE CASE WITH THIS SERIES TO BEGIN WITH AND IT'S SO OBVIOUS THIS HACK IS LYING TO COVER HIS BLARING MISTAKES
YOU WASTED HOURS OF MY LIFE, UCHIKOSHI! HOURS I WILL NEVER GET BACK!
Exactly
Time to pull the trigger on this series. I will never again get into a mystery series that does not have an established conclusion.
I should just remove it from my computer.
What's the point of only releasing the last game of a handheld console trilogy on a computer ?
999 was ok though
I don't know much about the latest game, but is it a direct sequel? If it is, then you have an excellent point.
How is ZTD doing in PC sales? If it's doing poorly (and I imagine it is) I hope it doesn't discourage other Japanese devs… I mean, appreciate more games being ported to the PC, but this just doesn't seem like a good idea. 999 and VLR weren't very popular games in the first place, so I don't see how the devs can assume that PC gamers have even touched the series before ZTD.
Yes
but it also makes almost every single thing in VLR pointless by blatant retcons
Why even bother?
That's the soul of this thread
999 was fun and partly good, but mostly retarded. Excellent as a STANDALONE TITLE.
VLR ruined that, and along with the horrific "let's follow the map every time you move" system made it tedious as hell, as well as the ability to just straight skip to any other location after being stuck removed all tension, as where in 999 you were forced to speed through the text and choices to get where you wanted.
ZTD was actually enjoyable in parts, but with the ending it ruined the entire series. It's pretty much like the ending to Lost. Fuck it. Glad I didn't pay for that shit.
the story was never written by me, it is not my tale to tell, so how the hell can "my perspective" be canonical? this move is only used when the writer doesn't how to finish the story he started, which is a very common thing, so instead of taking responsibility for what HE CREATED, he throws it to the audience and washes his hands. it's a dirty pathetic move to my eyes no matter how well made it is done.
that he did, i wanted to know the truth, but now anything is the truth therefore nothing is the truth, there is no real conclusion because any conclusion is the correct one. there is nothing deep to it, he didn't know how to finish it and answer anything so he washed his hands.
17k as of now, not bad but nothing great either.
This I find retarded.
The key to writing a story is knowing the beginning and the end.
I guess the solution is try writing the beginning first, the conclusion second, and then everything in between? Doesnt one game writer, think it was Yoko Taro, use something like backwards writing where he has the end in mind first and then works back?
More like thinking of what you want to tell. Obviously sometimes shit gets strewn and you write a sequel (i.e. Dark Tower).
Haven't played any Yok Taro games but I hear they're either complete shit or good depending on who you ask.
source on the manga?
K I N G D O M
I
N
G
D
O
M
Drakengard 3 was shit, don't bother with that. But D1 was interesting enough as a PS2 game to be worth playing, and I hear Nier was his best game.
Have to admit, though I appreciate a properly done interpretive ending, it really only should exist in works that are entirely interpretive to begin with.
If the events and everything therein have been literal from the beginning up to that point then the story really should not end on any kind of interpretive fashion.
Though I liked the games I mentioned, I have to agree with you, user. As a writer I'm obligated to bring about a satisfying ending (sad, happy or otherwise). Suddenly closing on an interpretive note is, ultimately, cheap.
The only good things to come out of VLR and ZTD is that smug rabbit and Luna (and honestly Luna is a character that exists in plenty of other works, if you know what I mean).
I can't believe how they managed to make a mascot villain like Zero III, absolutely more visually interesting and personally fun than Monokuma, and yet they did NOTHING with him.
Dropped him about as early on as they could.
Draken3 was as good as a Souls game
in that you had to dig through boring and/or frustrating crap and pay close attention to minute things to get the real story and characterization you were hoping for
NO
It's worth watching, maybe. I really like Draken1 but don't send someone into the inferno of actually playing it.
It's LOOOOONG stretched of HORRIBLE not-Warriors gameplay done at its worst before those fleeting levels where you can sit back and enjoy being horrified by tasked with slaughtering children
It still is.
It's also the most depressing.
i'd believe it. the entire sequence was written in a different tone and different level of retarded compared to the rest of the series. with how the game played with the expectations of players in the series before, i don't doubt that he actually intended the ending to be taken differently. whether you think it was done well or justified is up to you i guess. i thought it was hilarious.
...
But as far as I know Umineko has just one answer. The last thing I've heard is that the manga explains everything and gives you the answer to the mystery.
As someone who has failed and succeeded in writing stories, this is very true if you want to write a focused and satisfying story. And finish it.
A more expanded formula is: a premise, a conclusion and then everything in between. Believe it or not, the middle is the least important part.
Nier is a very solid game, gameplay-wise. The story and characters are the real draw. Play it.
Drakengard 1 is a very basic Dynasty Warriors-style game. And I mean basic. It is very repetitive and shallow. HOWEVER! If you're interested in the game, I would still recommend you play it. Just watching it would not give you the same experience. The Drakengard series is a series that would really only shine as a game. Which is a very difficult thing to say, since the series has notoriously poor gameplay.
Drakengard 3 is a difficult one. The gameplay is both worse and better than D1. The framerate is awful, the levels are bland and the enemies are repeated far, far, FAR too often. If those problems didn't exist, I would say the gameplay is marginally better than Nier. The story (of which I only played 2 endings, but I do know about some later plot developments) is of the same quality as what you would expect from D1 & Nier. It is a Drakengard game though, not a sequel to Nier. This is a very important thing to keep in mind. Would I recommend you to play it? Probably not. I love the narrative style of the Drakengard series, but I had to give up on D3. If you're a diehard fan of D1 and liked the more twisted parts of Nier, I would recommend it. But if you're even asking if you should play it, the answer is probably no. Which is a shame, because if the gameplay problems was somehow fixed, I would recommend it wholeheartedly.
Drakengard 2 does not exist.
What the fucking shit? I thought he had the series penned down already instead of just making shit up as he goes.
I was a fool for being lead on to be excited after VLR. Expecting Uchi to have written some kind of crazy showdown with another shifter who wants a different outcome than you do. Wasn't ZTD written by 5 people too? I'm just disappointed now. At least 999 was sort of self contained.
I gotta admit: I don't know a lot about the development of the series, but from what I've read and played it feels like 999 was never meant to have a sequel. The fact that 999 works perfectly as a standalone game and has a satisfying conclusion supports my theory.
I think Uchikoshi is bullshitting.
This is not a good thing. The too many cooks idiom applies especially to writing.
I think I read somewhere that Uchi only wrote the D-team route. The rest were handled by other people.
Billy Bat by Naoki Urasawa if I'm not mistaken.
It's such a fucking cop out answer, if this detail was so important it would've been mentioned when VLR came out or a few months later, not 4 years later when you're suddenly surrounded by angry fans asking "What the hell is the point of the final cutscene in VLR, what about Kyle"
Fuck ZE, what a waste of time. ZTD makes me feel like it wasnt a game made for the fans at all because the previous 2 games are just retconned out of existence or just don't matter
...
Is this the game where the final boss is sudoku?
That's 999
Umineko's problems come less from its solutions, but from the selective interpretation of the rules and precedent it sets out for itself, sometimes reaching Joyce's Ulysses levels of selectively picking which truth statements mean what.
This comes to a head with the two major solutions of the culprit and crimes. One solution relies on guilt creating a disassociate persona, which, while implausible, is not unusual in crime fiction, while the other relies on an impossible survival, which even Doyle, creator of fucking Sherlock Holmes, considered a cop out, as well as a huge decades long charade by several characters that could have only succeeded by an epidemic of idiocy on the mainland. You can probably guess which solution Ryukishi intended.
While the manga elucidated the author's solution much more than he originally desired, this does not stop the story and mystery from being shit. The author's idea of having concepts as character traits, much like a certain other Japanese dipshit's, not JoJo, fuck off, Araki actually knows how to do a "defeat the undefeatable" without resorting to protagonist bullshit most of the time,
does
not
work
fuck
I don't think you even needed all the gold files, right? I wanted to make ZTD so that even they can enjoy the story.”'''
So instead of rewarding players for being smart and completing your game fully, you decided to give them the finger in favor of an imaginary future fanbase?
That's retarded. Why make a sequel for theoretical new fans instead of the dedicated ones you possess?
Funny just how appropriate it is to bring this up in this thread.
Well said, by the way.
Because stupidity
Though maybe that's why we got Carlos, Q, Mira and NuMale McTip-a-shotgun
It's frustrating how good the music was for these games, even ZTD, and yet now that goodness is trapped in copyright to this farce.
I feel like making a mystery VN and using all the music from VLR and ZTD just out of spite
Clearly a crab could smack a keyboard with Ren'Py and get a better coherent narrative than this.
I'm just so pissed
I enjoyed all 3 games despite some of its flaws
What is the general audience/fanbase like anyway?
Just us and anyone who posts in these threads, I'd gather.
After ZTD I doubt much people would want to play the series anymore outside of 999's PC port, if that ever happens.
No he doesn't lol.
How does he do it?