What games do stealth right?

Also you're a nigger

First three Spliter Cell is the best stealth simulator out there.

thief is really focused stealth, it's very good. I haven't played splinter cell yet but it seems great. metal gear solid is extremely patient and rewarding. deus ex has terrible stealth.

Pandora Tomorrow was ass

I liked Thief, Deus Ex and Hitman Blood Money a lot better.

PvP arma, that one find the murderer game or and maybe one or two other PvP games. the wide range of possible actions to work with when interacting with other people is really the best way of doing it. sneaking around in brush, hiding in plain sight and trying to outsmart real people will always feel more rewarding.

By no means does TES do stealth good at all, I just wanted to comment on a specific mod for Oblivion that renders character models opaque based on their sneak skill. Coupled with a few certain NPC rapists mods, I can confirm that there is always a lingering fear that there was an invisible NPC nearby stalking and getting ready to rape me.

Fucked ass you mean. That train level was A+++

Jesus fucking christ stop embarrassing yourself.

Most of the time gadgets just cheapen the stealth by making things easier for the player.

Castle Wolfenstein. Everyone not wearing bulletproof vest dies in 1 shot. Loots aren't always useful. In Beyond Castle Wolfenstein, your character can take 3 shots, but he will walk with a sever limp and I don't know if it's possible to heal. Such realism can't be found anymore these days.

I like Morrowind's RNG based stealth. It's not realistic at all, but it's fully abstraction and fun.

The only real good part of MGS stealth is when you "get it", then you're just running around like a madman and punching nuts.

Payday 2's stealth can be pretty fun as long as RNG and shitty netcode isnt fucking you over.

As usual I have to shill this obscure-ass stealth game by based Ruskis.

Silent sneaking is highly visible, slow and mean you need incredibly big openings from patrols.
Pacifism is valid, but insanely, incredibly difficulty.

Hitman 2 given a proper sequel.

GADGETS

Good use of sound, danger (i.e. cannot fight back well if caught) and a tense atmosphere.
I'd also make a distinction between stealth games and 'predator' games with the latter covering Escape from Butcher Bay, some sections in the bamham games (obviously) and Conviction.

The MG games are pretty top tier as 2D stealth goes. The MGS is generally pretty poor judged as a stealth game.

Death to Spies also requires you to shoot people in the head if you want to use their uniform afterwards. Hit them in the body and the blood/bullet holes gives it away.

Syphon Filter

Yes.
Essentially, the game combines the idea of choking the player like a survival horror with the sheer difficulty of sneaking in Hitman 2.
Glorious.

Thief, TF2's spy class before they added retarded counters, Payday 2 if you ignore the fact that getting caught once = game over and Far Cry 2 if you can ignore some bullshit.

Also doing a deus ex non-lethal run.

You need to be unable to take on the enemy head-on. Getting discovered should mean death. Not just mission failure, but your character getting killed or captured and being unable to fight your way out.

As long as you know that you could take on your enemy head-on, it'll never be an effective stealth game. This is the biggest reason why games like Dishonored failed as stealth games. It's not the poor mechanics, it's the fact that you know you could switch to combat at any time, even on max difficulty, and kill everyone you're currently hiding from.

Meanwhile good stealth games, like Thief and Styx, uphold the knowledge that if you get spotted you're a dead man.

Players having escape mechanics is acceptable, of course, as long as it's limited and is just for escaping, not for fighting and winning. Similarly, it's ok if a player is capable of killing a small number of enemies in combat, as long as they can't keep it up for long. That way some leeway is allowed and a single mistake doesn't mean immediate defeat, but because you only get a small number of chances to recover, you're still incentivized to avoid discovery and the tension of a good stealth game is maintained.

Thief 2 is the undisputed king of sneak-em-ups, although Splinter Cell was close at it's peak.

As an aside MGS didn't get proper stealth mechanics until 3 and they didn't actually get good until Ground Zeroes. Phantom Pain is a step back in my opinion unless you tinker around and re-enable the hard mode AI from GZ, otherwise they're fucking blind and deaf.

JUST

mgs2 ghost run is pretty fun

the right answer is thief though, that's

mee to budy

the stalking in this game is on point breh

If by pure chance anyone has played the Watery Grave T2FM in the last couple of days, where the hell are the mechanist baubles. I think I've got two, the super obvious one in the chapel and the one under the gears.

fuck yeah dude.

Fuckin A - just remembered a fond memory of a version of this back in the Op Flash days driving a civvie vehicle at slow speed on a back road in Nogova with my lights on trying to fool other players that I was AI.

Bad neighbours

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If you haven't you should try Styx, by the way.

Styx was pretty good, however it could have been incredible if the issues with ledge controls were fixed and objective markers were removed and replaced with some kind of in universe way of figuring out where to go, like a journal system that takes notes on the guard chatter. Something like alone would push the game to crazy heights.

It already had fantastic level design, it's just a shame that they put all the work into those intricate and vertical levels and then just slapped objective markers on it without a care in the world.

This meme is killing the stealth genre. Everyone looks at games like the new splinter cells, dishonored, and (for some dumbass reason even) assassins creed, and assume that the solution for one extreme is to go to the other extreme.

Personally I couldn't stand the controls of Styx but play the shit out of Thief, and in Thief the only thing preventing you from killing guards (on the highest difficulty) was your standards. Even then in Thief when you get caught you could:
>Flashbang a group of guards and knock them all out

The only thing stopping you from doing this shit was you where limited on resources, which was a natural way to keep you from rambo'ing through a level. As opposed to something like SC 1-2 which just made an alarm counter, and when you get 3 alarms they pulled you out.

This is a completely different message than "You need to be unable to take on the enemy head-on. Getting discovered should mean death."

I'd have settled for an option to turn them off if, as you say, there was an in-universe way to deal with it too. That way you don't have to upset the more casual players and thus lose out on income. Thief's maps are the best example of how to deal with this issue, of course.

There was an option to turn it off, but that's not my point.

If you turn it off, you're just lost. Wandering from room to room wondering where to go, it's okay to do if your objective is to get to the exit of the zone on your map, then you use the map to navigate to the exit.
Forgot to mention that the maps in styx were top tier, kudos to them for not just showing you a minimap + detailed map of the zone showing your exact posititon

But if you're trying to find a guy to kill for a sidequest for example, you'll just be wandering lost until you get lucky.

The problem is the game is designed with the expectation that you're using objective markers. Since they expect you to know exactly where to go at any given time, there has been no effort put in to give organic ways to lead the player to the objective.

Imagine if instead of a map marker pointing at the guy you were going to kill at the docks, all you had was his name and you had to try to find more info on him until you could pinpoint who he was.

Maybe you could sneak into an office at the docks and peek at their ledgers and find his name and where he's docked?
Maybe you could find his ship and figure out some of his defining features and finally his location by listening to his crewmates?

All of this potential experiences isn't even a spark in a dev's mind because they all are operating on the assumption that the player is never lost, instead of building an experience around being lost.

Gameplay like that is what makes a stealth game great.

I was agreeing with you user, just not particularly clearly. Devs often throw in options like that without understanding they don't work if the game isn't built around it. The hardest difficulty on BiA 3 removing the crosshair despite it being essential when shooting from cover, for example, or Classic mode in RO2 being completely fucked due to maps being designed around run and gun stamina.

It's possible they'll do a sequel with this but I suspect, if one happens, they'll sadly not see it as an issue that needs to be fixed. 'Hardcore' stealth players are in the minority and it's not like there's any competition anyway.

Mark of the Ninja's okay if limited.

/r/ing that Deus Ex webm with all the government talking and facts and FEMA stuff

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Blood Money is one of the clunkiest stealth games ever. One of the best Hitman games? Well yeah. One of the best stealth games when Splinter Cell and MGS exist? No, Hitman is third rate at best.

Thanks a ton.

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Blood Money is about social stealthy, can't really be compared to other stealth games since the mechanics are entirely different.

It requires that there is no get-out-of-jail-free cards.
-Throwing a rock to distract someone is okay.
-Decoys that fully absorb enemy attention, or cloaks that make you outright invisible, are not.

There should also be absolutely no way to exhaust the enemy numbers without considerable risk/cost.

It can be compared to Death to Spies 1 and 2 I think, though they're both in my backlog and I'm yet to play them.

I'm calling bullshit because there was still retarded AI.

Stealth is the weakpoint of blood money for sure. Especially since it's a "Get caught = gameover" type game. I honestly enjoyed just exploring all the levels and how you could figure out how you wanted to kill people Like staking out in the redneck attic for 5 minutes before sniping the target, but it wasn't mechanically good.

If you want a social stealth game, Trouble in Terrorist Town (before the community got killed by cancer) for gmod blew hitman out of the water any day every day, but it's because you're playing with actual people and things like this happen:

Does Morrowind even have areas where stealth comes in to play? It's my favourite game and I have never made a stealth character, at most my stealthy characters have always been more kleptomaniacs than robbers or thieves.

I did a stealth run of Morrowind and stealth was just another shittier way to do things. Even the Morag Tong (assassins guild) half the fights are straight up duels. Occasionally whenever Morrowind jerking or Oblivion bashing comes up I'll say Oblivion was much stronger than Morrowind in stealth, just to see if people who know the game better could point me in a direction to how to do stealth in morrowind, and it usually ends up with TESfags ignoring it or admitting it's true. I mean someone even got butthurt and went "Wow, Oblivion is such a better game, because your one niche play style that involves walking around in the world without interacting with anyone has more content for it." Keep in mind, people prefer Morrowind to Oblivion because Oblivions world is mostly same-y, and the it isn't as strong of an RPG. All Morrowinds strengths for stealth are strictly roleplaying, like if you stole a big item you needed to find someone who actually has enough money to buy it with and most of Oblivions weaknesses are in roleplaying (NPCs magically know what items are stolen) or just inherit in TES (once you get enough levels in stealth you are basically invisible, if you sneak attack stab anyone your cover is blown and everyone in the room attacks you unless you use a bow from 20 feet away)

My points for Oblivion is better for stealth:
+Castles where entirely fleshed out buildings you weren't allowed in that you could sneak around in
+The imperial city had an entire fucking sewer system that was like a secret underground mirror of the surface that you could even use to enter the city through and was fun as fuck to use when you where wanted
+Dark brotherhoods missions actually encouraged stealthily killing people
+Thieves Guild quest line was amazing
+You can actually do stealth without needing to be an illusionist
-There was nothing to steal besides worthless trinkets and replicas of weapons

A monster trapped in a castle in a mission. If it fail, it became a slave, if it succeed, who knows…
Kill people can really make your life hell, but it's viable.

The Morag Tong aren't a Dunmer flavored Dark Brotherhood. They're a Gestapo for hire.

They're advertised as assassins, but that basically summarizes them.

It is happening. But doesn't seem to be any info on gameplay changes.

If it's of any comfort, Alekhine's Gun ended up coming out and the patches made it at least passable. Better than Hitman Absolution, in my opinion, though that isn't saying much.

That said, the great news is that the developers released the development kit on the forums and so we have a fucking Hitman gameplay devkit on our hands, something we never really had before.

buck bumble

How are anons falling for a ruse thin enough to trigger Tumble?

Best stealth?

Easy, Splinter Cell Double Agent

It's so good, you didn't even notice it!

SS13 antag mode