I'm currently writing a pamphlet of pre-made, copy-paste responses to common 'normie arguments' for pro-white/anti-Jew advocates to use in online debate - in comment sections, on social media, etc. This consists of identifying the arguments a shitlib can use for plausible deniability in issues such as white-genocide, Jewish over-representation and hostility, race-differences, etc. So I'm spending a lot of time combing through RationalWiki, Quora, et al these days.
I was wondering if any other anons have done this before and made a good pdf out of their research? Hopefully some of you have made some documents for this purpose yourself, and if you have it would be a big help if you can upload them or put them on Pastebin to help me out. I found one of these pdfs on IronMarch but all the answers were stupid rhetorical statements and non-answers to arguments. What I'm doing is acknowledging the Normie shitlib perspective of materialism and pseudo-rationality and compiling scientific and statistical sources for the purpose of swarming these people in debate. The white centrist/apolitical onlooker reading the comments will see us as being the rational party and will side with us even if they are scared to explicitly advocate for our interests
I should be finished by October and will then start a group in which whoever wants to help can critique, refine and add to the basic text for the use of all our people. As of now, any advice and 'prototypes' are welcome as I'm only beginning to compile resources and writing some introductory essays.
That's rich OP as you've lost the plot. Normies don't have narratives. They have programming they've been indoctrinated with. These assholes just repeat shit so what do you do? THE SAME FUCKING THING. You're clearly retarded, but other people aren't going to carry around your 'pamphlet' to consult when engaging in discussion with strangers. Which, if you weren't retarded, would know NEVER goes to issues like, THE HOLOCAUST and nigger rapists from Somali. Normies talk about sportball and gay tv shows.
No, I hit people. I find it to be extremely effective. The point is always well understood.
You probably have the body of a bitch though so for you, I suggest a course on logic so that you learn to actually THINK. Once you can do that, you won't need your notes.
Thomas Perez
This is exactly the point, once you have answers to prove the indoctrination to be completely wrong, they have to acknowledge the lies. Other shithead normies read them and have to say 'well look at that'
The purpose of the pamphlet - which will be a pdf - is for affecting political discourse on social media and comment sections. Not 'redpilling normies' by talking to your dad about the holocaust like several autist friends of mine try to do
I've been drinking my milk and doing my squats faggot
The 'notes' are compiled scientific and statistical sources, things that are handy to have on hand in political debates when a shitlib says 'muh blacks are targeted by police' or some such nonsense.
Fuck you for being a fag and having the reading comprehension of a nigger though
Angel Brooks
You seem unreasonably hostile to the idea of producing easily digestible redpills. I wonder (((why))).
So you're basically making a "Liberal/Leftist arguments and how to counter them" guide? I like the idea. This is shit we all need to memorize and talk to other people about. If it's literally pamphlet sized I'd be willing to print out a stack and put them in public places with other pamphlets and reading materials.
OP do you need help with graphic design?
Adam Harris
Hmm, wonder what's going on here
Gavin Morgan
Yeah, that's basically it, but it's focused on dominating online discussion and I want to create the pamphlet (which will be about 20-40 pages of writing and a few more of sources, all neatly divided into relevant sections) as a sort of cornerstone of more organised propaganda efforts instead of just having Holla Forums invade YouTube Spotlight shit talking about libs and Hitler. Think of a constant shill campaign of several groups of dozens of guys attacking liberal YouTubers and media outlets day in and day out in a 'I'm just being rational' guise.
I will when I'm editing and putting everything together. I'll make a big fuss here and elsewhere when I get to that stage, so hopefully you'll be around then and I can get your discord or something.
Christopher Edwards
Good idea OP, don't let the shills drag you down. DO IT!
Cameron Carter
I used to think you'd have to use some cold hard facts and stick to them to start redpilling. That was before I found out that normalfags actually love pol style humor(provided your timing and jokes are on point). It gives them this giant thrill to hear people say things that are largely thought to be verboten. Before you know it they'll be making nigger jokes right back to you. I think I have started to understand this. Normies are completely burnt out on politics. They are tired of hearing about Trump even if they still don't like him, they are tired of hearing news stories that take hours of research to comprehend. They are hungry, hungry for something that will keep their attention and let that pressure in their head out. Nigger and muslim stuff is the best as anyone with a set of eyes can see what is going on there. That said this pamphlet is an excellent idea for that one cuck who wants to push back or call you rayciss.
Caleb Wilson
bumperoo
Isaiah Peterson
Bump for OP. When you have pests you get a pesticide designed for the pest, you dont try to Walter White some in your kitchen
Brody Jackson
Go for it, OP.
Matthew Rivera
This. This is why the bantz was vital last year. The normie feels the tension of the lies he's forced to believe, and humor starts to make them ridiculous. It shines the light on them, and the kike scrambles for cover.
Arguing with them in seriousposts means they have legitimate points to address. They don't. They're fucking clowns and should be treated as such.
Tyler Foster
Bump. I'll start collecting the leftist (((arguments))) I come across on social media and post them here. Pics unrelated.
Jose Harris
Look up the ancient Liberal Doublethink chart. Highly relevant even if it's not the same thing.
Jason Ramirez
Look up the ancient Liberal Doublethink chart. Highly relevant even if it's not the same thing.
Easton Bell
Fix your servers chodemonkey. I hit the reply like 4 times because it failed to post.
William Sanders
Serious question, is there any reason I shouldn't worship Lucifer, Moloch, Ba'al, Mammon, etc El? The elites worship them and they're the elites so they must be on the right track here. Praise Moloch.
Tyler Robinson
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Jose Scott
Because the Book of Revelation is a fortelling of the fucking of you over so hard. Also gas yourself kike.
Christopher Miller
someofmybestfriendsarewhite on tumblr has a lot of answers to common arguments on FAQ would you care to check it out?
Connor Kelly
Look up The Hammer of the Patriot. It's a handbook on arguing with normalfags written by a guy from Ironmarch. It focuses more on rhetoric and reframing the debate than logical argumentation.
Brayden Murphy
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Xavier Wright
Do some on gun control OP.
Aaron Wood
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the encouragement.
I do appreciate what you're saying. And, though the shills will jump in after I say this, the bants on The Daily Shoah is the reason a lot of my edgy normie friends got into white-nationalism and looked into the JQ rather than staying as 'capitalists' and 'conservatives'.
However, in my experience talking to people about these issues I've identified a huge demographic of apolitical people who fancy themselves 'logical libertarians' and 'rational centrists'. Basically, they are low-info people who are conflict-avoidant because they don't know what they're talking about and don't want to look stupid. They often act as the 'moderating voice' on places like Facebook. I think you know what I'm talking about now.
I'm specifically targeting these people by appealing to their pseudo-rationality and using deductive reasoning. But I'm also including rhetorical replies to bait them into showing their bias. For example: "'White' doesn't exist, what is white?" "What other group would you say that to?" Once they show their bias and start stumbling to explain themselves you can start posting your materialist explanations of why race does exist. I'll have the book set up so that the rhetorical responses are before the scientific/materialist responses. Again, the bigger point is convincing the many more people reading the comments to be like 'well, this clearly makes more sense.'
Thanks lads, I'll look through all the sources, post as many as you can.
Yeah, that's utter shit. It's largely rhetorical as I say in the introduction and has a hostile irrational tone to it.
I might add it in later. I'm mainly focused on race, gender differences, explaining Jewish influence from a normie perspective, immigration, the idea of Nazism as an animating myth that Jews use to undermine all Tradition, the idea of the holocaust and it's historical insignificance especially after revising the death tolls to realistic numbers (Look at the Bengal Famine, The Holodomor - why do we only here about the holocaust?), etc.
Plus, gun control is extremely easy to argue against.
Xavier Kelly
Personally, I hink this is a wild goose chase with these people. You're on point with you assesment that they are combat-avoidant types, but thet aren't simply low information. They are intentionally low-info because they are cowards afraid of defending any real position, but delude themselves from this fact through appeals to and defense of jewish created moral frameworks. They can't be swayed from a position if they never take one.
Elijah Nelson
Just because a site has Rational in its name does not mean it is. Half the articles are just blatant ad hominems on alternative theories. I recall reading an article about Expanding Earth Theory on there which, instead of refuting it on sound basis, literally just called the theorist 'batshit insane' (very rational) and just kept repeating 'we have evidence tectonic plates tho!' which did nothing to refute the theory. The site is a fedora filled cringe fest
Austin Moore
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Lucas Russell
Shit, OP, I forgot I had this. Take this, it'd ought to help you.
Hudson Martin
Good idea OP. I've been thinking about making a specific pamphlet related to Brexit in case they (((give))) us another referendum like they did with Norway to try to reverse the vote. Here are some talking points I've found work quite well;
This is an easily digestible version of nationalism vs globalism without triggering idiots' programming so they stop listening and start shouting. Many left-leaning normies have a useful dislike already for buzzwords like 'bankers', 'giant corporations' and 'the global elite'. For example;
Use stories, not statistics. Statistics can be used to prove anything and the normie won't bother reading them. For example I don't use stats on how globalism has affected the working class. I'd say something like this, tying it in to the previous point;
Basically, take the absolute moral high ground and stick to it. Don't be defensive in any way. They're programmed to go along with oppressor/oppressed narratives. Phrase it so they can't possibly disagree with you without sounding like they hate poor/oppressed people.
Is not going to convince anyone who cannot think for themselves, which is exactly the people we're trying to convince. You have to lead them to conclusions, like leading children.
Nicholas Nguyen
I would add to that list something that has reared its head in the last year, something like;
Xavier Evans
Or
Angel Moore
I would add that many (myself included a few years ago) just don't want to deal with all this conflicting information some of which seriously undermines and outright disproves many of the (((facts))) they have been taught are true It takes courage to swallow the red pill and most normies are too afraid to do so
Jaxson Davis
no they don't retard. cognitive dissonance sets in, they feel woozy, and they ignore your dialectic because it carries bad feefees. very few people change their opinions because of sweet reason.
Owen Foster
I have a general question. What do you use as a response when you give someone statistics and they tell you that "it doesn't matter, statistics can be manipulated"?
Samuel Fisher
Then question any and every statistic they dare to quote.
There are people who follow rules, and there are people who use rules.
This is a nihilistic, scorched-earth debate tactic that's been popularized by (((critical theory))). Most often, I've gotten this shit from women, as they genuinely have no interest or value in being correct, accurate, or even logically coherent. Reflexively, I would turn the argument into a refutation of the so-called accomplishments of critical theory, which is a totally barren landscape populated by shitshow retard cucks sucking dick all day, as you should know, but this is a complete waste of time. In reality, any and all debate with the person who believes in critical theory is doomed to failure, a philosophical nihilist has convinced themselves they are smart because they cannot be defeated in debate. A nihilist has a weapon that mirrors its damage on both parties, you can point out that they then have no statistics to back up wage gap/cop violence/white privilege/campus rape, but they literally could not care less. "So what, your arm is off. Can't hit me, can't hit me!"
The only way to debate a nihilist is to abandon the 'debate' as such; they have no interest in victory and accept no defeat. The correct direction, at least for me, is to look as smart as possible, put on my monocle, adjust my bow tie, make sure my coattails are straight, and then proceed to shit all over the person with cheap rhetorical tricks while pointing out how idiotic their nihilistic tactic actually is.
Landon Ross
In all honesty, beating the truth into some basic bitch liberal is the only effect method for them to understand.
Kevin Hall
Okay, thanks. There are just some arguments that to this day I still get pissed about and wished I had said something different.
Evan Butler
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Brayden Gutierrez
Now, why would cops be scared of negroes? Also, is that nigger implying that number change according to who you're working for because his teacher said so?
Zachary Long
I forget who I was having argument with. As the user pointed out how he usually gets this argument with women, I'm pretty sure it was a female.
From what I've seen in Baltimore, cops aren't scared of niggers, they just figure policing them is a waste of time, endangers police lives, and if they actually shoot the shitskins they have a million law suits and the city smearing them all over the news, basically destroying their career. It's a thankless, dangerous job and they know that the dem mayors and governors, and predominantly black city councils, don't have their back against the criminals.
Lincoln Ramirez
Humor user here. Your idea is absolutely essential and I see your strategy now. I will say however I think humor is still the way. The key is the conflict avoidance part here. The low-info types you talk about only act this way because they think they are swimming with the current. What they don't know is that an increasing number of normies are seeing the world for the way it is. The whole context of the discussion needs to be shifted via humor which will bring in der normie on your side. Like I said normies are burnt out on politics. So much so that they are beginning to resent any political discussion which goes over their head(read:all of them). Putting this discussion in the context of simple truths that when denied illuminate the absurdity of the opposing argument will get normies back in the discussion but on your side. Normies crave being able to voice their poorly thought out emotional responses. Give them what they want and watch as the twerp larping as a philosopher is completely unable to hold their interest or communicate with them effectively. The low-info type is more interested in appearing smart than effectively communicating their ideas. A favorite tactic of mine is the 'poop swastika' routine. A supposed hate crime pops up on tv or in the news and as others act shocked you calmly say: The story if you don't remember was about a nog drawing a swastika on a bathroom wall at some university with poop that eventually got exposed. The beauty of this is that the story about the hoax is going to come up on any search of 'poop swastika' and it immediately seems funny. While your normie friend is searching for this there is a good chance they will realize how ridiculous this story is. While they do this play up this ridiculous side by playing on the normie's ignorance.
Leo Gray
Came here to rec this too, it's exactly what OP is looking for. Only negative is that it's a bit dated for some of the more cutting edge normie topics, but it's a great place to start.
Parker Perry
This is exactly where I have had my successes. IF normies could use reason they wouldn't be normies. Give them a little soft-shoe.
Logan Harris
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Elijah Foster
This is absolutely correct. How many times have you heard some asshole saying 'everything is politicised these days, I hate it', or 'I'm not interested in politics anymore, it was just a phase'. But we're really thinking of two different subsets of normies: the pure normie and the normie who fancies himself the 'intellectual' and 'unbiased' person. It's the second party I'm mainly targeting; it's a bit easier to manage a pure normie by just memeing so you won't need a book on that kek.
John Murphy
Good goy.
Wyatt Davis
Your approach is in a way hacking cultural marxism and using it to get the upper hand.
It kills me that normalfags are so indoctrinated that the only way to keep their dwindling attention span for even a second is to play by marxist rules.
Christian Myers
I'm not discouraging you from doing anything regarding this (quite on the contrary, actually), but if your goal is to get normalfags to share your thoughts in the end, I'll give my 2 cents.
Force of persuasion works 20x better than force of evidence. If you knew normaltards you'd know that the scientific/evidence basis of what they believe isn't that important as the popularity of that idea and the sense of community they find when expressing it. Presenting a pile of studies to counter a falsehood so laughably incoherent like "there aren't only 2 genders" only makes you look like a tryhard and somebody who isn't able to discuss like a normal person.
Noah Ramirez
Lactose intolerance is common among non-whites. Is your body too weak to handle milk user?
Daniel Perez
East-Asian spotted.
Gabriel Carter
Lactose Intolerance is deeper then just East-Asians.
Cooper Mitchell
OP, remember that normies will discredit any type of sources that doesnt fit the (((narrative))). I've talked with some friends that studied psychology and when we start bringing up statistics, they always resort to "those are wrong, check your sources next time user :^)" but their (((sources))) are impervious to critisism.
Charles Hill
>OP, remember that normies will discredit any type of sources that doesnt fit the (((narrative))). Good point user. Normies are handed down plenty of excuses from the MSM for not even looking into various facts. Look at what is successfully used by the MSM. Isn't there some absurdly high percentage of people getting their political news from comedians? And that shit isn't even really funny. If you tell someone something they don't know they will dispute it just because they don't like to seem uninformed. However if you tell someone a joke they will feel inclined to laugh along especially if there are others laughing too. Understanding this mindset is extremely important and though facts are the other half of it this really won't work without that ability to cut through the brainwashing.
Hudson Jackson
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Juan Evans
hate to be the shill here, OP's ideas are good, but most NPC's are like that, don't be unrealistic. Sitll, our purpose is not to redpill everyone, but to redpill the right people, who have the will and the skills and reason. It's the fanatical 10% of the population we should be after.
Anthony Parker
I've done something similar in the past. It takes a while to get the ball rolling, but with the "skeptic" crowd being in this year, you'll manage to entice at least a few, and they'll do the rest.
Best thing to do is be as factual as possible and broadcast as "Im not biased, but there are these trends.." that's what I've had success with, even on topics like the holocaust. It's the age-old saying of "It's not what you say, but how you say it." Frame it in a way that normies can identify with, and it'll be effective
Jason Butler
Moldylockes is a teacher? I'm not so sure I'd want a violent nappy-hair hippy lesbian amateur pornstar teaching my children anything.
Jason Howard
OP this is a great idea. I think there is a LOT of theory out there for debating normies/libshits, but what's missing is CONCRETE EXAMPLES, which sounds like what you are getting at, especially with this comment:
That's brilliant and something that Mike Enoch used when some minority chick asked Richard Spencer "how white is white enough?" during a speech. Mike jumped in and asked her if she ever said that to a nonwhite, then turned it around on her by saying "how black is black enough?".
BTW I understand that libertarian autist types might respond better to rationality and reason than rhetoric, but rhetoric (as others have alluded to) is still absolutely critical when talking to the average normie.
Agreed. Something else the guys on the Daily Shoah say, is that one of the keys to awakening normies is to show them that it's ok to feel proud of being white, it's ok to not want to live among minorities. That for thousands of years all races regarded racial pride and preference as normal, it was only in the 1960s that this all changed (and only for whites).
So I think it would be really useful to have a resource that contains examples of libshits etc getting BTFO in arguments, and debates with normies that ended up in them becoming more open to red pilling. Weev does this using his R.A.C.E. method, might be worth looking into:
Heartiste is a particularly good blog to read because it's quite heavy on PUA stuff but the material is very useful for being persuasive in general.
Holy shit this looks awesome. From the intro: "When people within the same group debate a point, they are playing for the same team, and genuinely want to learn the truth, because they will all benefit from having correct knowledge. But debates between opposing groups of people like liberals and na- tionalists are not about logic, or finding out the truth. They are struggles for dominance. They are shows of force. The two par- ties don't want the same thing, they're not playing for the same team. So the public wants to know which team to join. They don't care which team has the best arguments, they want to be on the side of the winners. In such a verbal struggle, strength is truth."
Thanks bro
Elijah Sanchez
I haven't read it but a number of anons have recommended The Psychology of Persuasion in the past. Scott Adams talks about some interesting persuasion things as well. It wouldn't hurt to read Aristotle's Rhetoric either.
Yeah, it is. I use a number of the arguments from that book.
Noah Russell
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Jonathan Moore
You're just saying that because I'm White. Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white
Brody Harris
This book is good. It has an emphasis on sales persuasion, but it should be insightful when read with politics in mind too.