Ocarina of time only run at 20fps on the n64

how did you n64 fags even play this when it came out?

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diffen.com/difference/NTSC_vs_PAL
web.cs.wpi.edu/~claypool/papers/fr-rez/paper.pdf
bbk.ac.uk/psychology/our-staff/academic/tim-smith/documents/ATOCC_timjsmith_final_plusrefs_plusfigs.pdf
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Because they're the same kind of people who say most games on the PS2 ran at 60 fps.

It was much easier to eat shit back then, as many of us did not know better.

but user, remember,
It's Okay When Nintendo Does It

I remember I couldn't play the GC port because it only ran on 60Hz TVs and I didn't have one.

Weren't all CRTs at least 60hz?

...

Are you actually comparing movies to games or are you just trying to bait me? I'm not entirely sure

I made it through Dark Souks 2 at 23 FPS. It's not as bad once you get used to it.

I didn't, I waited for the 3DS version

Also, yes, it is objectively bad. The fewer frames there are, the less information about movement your brain can receive to make decisions about what should happen, and the fewer windows for button input there are.

It varies by region. Euro TVs are likely to be 50.

diffen.com/difference/NTSC_vs_PAL

You're implying it with your statement.

I'm really not though

There has to be an emulator with a hack to run it at 60fps properly (Not just sped up three times as fast)

You actually see stuttering in panning shots? Guess your eyes are more receptive for that kind of stuff. Regardless your eyes don't work that way, your eyes adjust and adapt to what they see without your help and your brain will fill in the blanks in the cause of lower framerates if anything concentrating will make your eyes adapt faster.

Reaction speed itself isn't a problem in LoZ, but for you it may even be easier. Just don't use a keyboard on an emulator.

I watch a lot of movies, so yes, I see it constantly. Also I have my doubts on the whole "your eyes adapt and fill in the blanks theory", I don't think it has any grounds.

If your eyes and brain didn't fill in the blanks then you wouldn't even be able to view a CRT screen which projects an image by flickering color at a speed faster then you can consciously perceive instead your brain perceives it as a an image and it's why looking at CRTs with a camera causes the scrolling black lines, the reason rapidly changing still pictures in sequence sequence is because your brain interprets it that way and fills in the blanks.

The only real effect low framerate has is input latency.

But that's not my immagination making it so that the flickering become images, that's an optical illusion.

Low framerate doesn't have any kind of optical illusion working for it, it's literally just less frames for your eyes to perceive. And your eyes and brain will recognise it, there's absolutely no way you are able to think that 30 and 60+ fps are exactly the same because your brain fills in the blanks.

silky smooth 60 fps

That's why it doesn't matter. Zelda and Dark Souls are casual as fuck so the framerate can be 20 and it won't effect your ability to play the game

It's not even the best Zelda on N64.

Agreed tbh

Okay, tough guy. What's a non-casual game, then?

MM is definitely the more interesting of the two, by far, but I don't know that I would say it's outright better. OoT has a lot more varied dungeons and locales.

This got old really fast.

It's hilarious how people are calling Dark Souls a casual game ever since the normlafags picked it up.

20 FPS isn't totally unplayable as long as it doesn't dip below that. Also, OOT practically plays itself with the z-targeting and the automatic shield blocks.

Well, it did bother me sometimes. I'm pretty sure there were also, with specific camera angles and effects taking place at the same time, awful frame-drops or slowdowns or something, that shit was bad

I remember seeing a SHAMELESS Zelda OoT rip-off on n64 on the internet like 10 or 15 years ago.
anyone know what I'm talking about?

Nice work guys

It would need that with the N64 controller.

Your eyes performs its own image processing before the signal is ever relayed to the brain, the brain interprets what the eyes tell it and creates an image based on what it interprets what the eyes tell it. However your eyes do not see that way what your eyes perceive is color, brightness, and darkness since it's designed to see light. Based on the information as well as some other things like what direction your eyes are pointing your brain will create an interpretation of this information. By design your brain fills in the blanks of everything you see, and FPS is essentially rapidly changing still images in sequence.

I didn't say it was exactly the same though, I said your eyes will adapt to different FPS.

CRTs and not knowing any better back then

sup hipster

It's more than a little funny. In terms of "games that actually make you try" Dark Souls is fairly high on the list for this decade. This is mostly because so few other games this decade are on that list, but I'd still say it's of similar difficulty to a lot of NES/SNES games.

I'm pretty sure not even Reddit uses le anymore.

U wot m8? Your eye performs no such processing as it contains no neurons. In fact, your eye sends a raw analog electro-chemical stream of data directly to your (IIRC) hypothalamus gland, which then directs the signal to the appropriate cortex for the actual processing to begin.

One of the first things the visual cortex does is a vertical flip. The reason for this is that the lense of your eye projects a vertically inverted image onto the retina.

That is just not true. At all.
You seem to have a very colourful view on framerate, you might want to research it before saying stuff that doesn't really have any basis in reality.

Higher FPS means higher sampling ratio and more smooth transitions between the samples. The eye and the brain are analogue "devices", so for best results, the digital image has to be as close to analogue as possible, which is achieved by reducing sampling time as much as possible. The brain does eventually adjust for lower framerate, but not without a cost. The brain does have to fill the blanks more when receiving information from a digital source with lower fps. That creates slight discomfort, which is way less obvious the higher the fps is. This is most obvious when running the same footage at different framerate side by side so that there's a way to compare them.

LoTR high fps was too much information for most peoples brains to process. It takes away from the movie like cheap post fx in most modern games. Low FPS in games is the opposite, your brain can only fill in the blanks to a certain degree. Especially during fast paced action 30 fps and below it gets jittery and slide-show like.

...

Funny thing is, I refused to play that shit until the 3DS Remake.

Now, I need to play the collectors edition, and I am!

Are you a babby

ALSO. Watch this video, tap the 60fps, then get ready to have your fucking mind blown

OH? Outside that one part please do point out to me how I'm wrong about your eyes only being able to see color, brightness, and darkness. Or that 1 frame is a still image.

HD textures are absolutely revolting and if you use them you might want to consider suicide.
Looks nice in 60fps though.

If you want to blow your mind read a little about bats and how they process sonar.

When you think about earthly locomotion the bat is one of the most amazing animals that has evolved. Active "vision" through sound, coupled with insane predictive cognitive abilities to nagivate during *flight*!

Imagine if you had a light burst producing organ you had to activate to use your eyes, but the speed of that light being as slow as sound…

I had just upgraded my 386 for a Pentium 150 with no dedicated GPU, good 3d graphics were out of my budget in '96.

If you play ANY N64 game on an LCD, you might want to consider suicide.

Also, high res for life, suck my fucking cock.

This is gorgeous, but it makes some of the harsh edges stick out a lot more. It no longer feels like part of the style built from limitations, and instead is just noticeably old.

By not being an autistic spoiled millennial that never worked a day in his life and probably only watches video games instead of playing them

How is the 3DS version HD?

this tbh fam

MM's puzzle, combat, and dungeons are also inferior to OOT.

Shittier enemy placement
shitter dungeon design
chore shit in dungeons such as finding the fairies
more boring bosses ( fish, chase to win with goron, spam sword to win first boss. The only well designed boss was Majora's)
all dev time into npc schedule and deku/goron/zora mask so the rest is barebones in comparison to OOT
OOT is actually a videogame with enemies, dungeons and, relatively speaking, challenge.
MM is a chore to enter the dungeons, a chore to do the dungeons, a chore itself to fight the bosses, and replaying in the same sandbox of a town to prolong replayability with the time travel mechanic.
MM has a lot of substance, but ironically little content, and in lesser quality.

MM is inferior to OOT. MM is an expansion to OOT at best.

Your eye does not process "images". Your eye is literally a transcoder of electromagnetic wave/particles into electrochemical signals. There is no processing of any "images" done by this organ.

Your eye literally produces a new stream of electrons based on the ones it receives through the pupil. Actually, your eye produces these data streams regardless of the function of the pupil. For example occular pressure can cause data to be sent to the brain: closing your eyes and pushing on them will cause you to "see" things called phosphenes.

Anyway, you seem to have a very basic understanding of one of the most complex organs to have evolved.

I'm not sure what you want me to tell you? Yes your eyes perceive colors, brightness and darkness affect colors, so it doesn't make much sense putting them in separated categories. I'm not sure how this has to do with the whole framerate discussion though.

Also you seem to be of the idea that if I have two images and I change them every 30 milliseconds then your brain will automatically fill in the blanks between them and you won't notice it. I mean that is just wrong, I don't even know what to tell you.

Your brain might be able to connect fast updating images into a motion, but it's not able to go past a certain threshold. That treshold is usually around the 30fps mark, lower than that, at least for something you're controlling will not feel right, and your brain will respond to it with motion sickness, headaches and whatever else.

Oops

was meant to be a reply to

You are right about the eyes only being able to see that, but wrong thinking it means nothing else matters. Your eyes are the input device, your brain the processing one. The framerate DOES matter as, again, the brain is an analogue processing device that detects motion by the comparison of received signals in a continuous visual stream. There is a certain brain disease (akinetopsia) that makes it impossible for a person to detect movement, because the brain can not properly detect the differences in the visual stream. However, a normal person obviously can, and at very high rates. This is why framerate matters, our brain CAN feel the difference in sampling times of digital screens, most certainly to over 60 hertz. It, of course, depends heavily on factors like light level, contrast and speed of movement pf objects on the screen.

This is probably the most retarded response in this thread, stop being a fucking conformist.

It's looked like that from the start, but I definitely see where you're coming from.

Like this.
60fps overclock when.

Strongly Agree.

Holy shit, so I'm not the only one.
This is why I hated the N64 version and NEVER played it.

Holy fuck, stop being a COock

You don't belong here.

It's not really HD, textures are still pretty muddy and manage to look nice, blending the game together.

It's not though. The Dungeon design is about the same, except MM's is actually fun and innovative instead of being repetitive as shit.
OoT has plenty of chores to do, probably even more than MM.
Unlike the oh so memorable bosses from OoT, you know, the ones that are exactly like the ones in MM.

Your opinion in general seems to be biased and very subjective, I suggest you get your head out of your ass maybe

MM and OoT are exactly the same, except MM excells in originality, atmosphere, world building and writing. It is also very well paced. Which is expected since it was done after OoT and the devs actually knew what they were doing.

It's easy to overlook how awe-inspiringly complex biology is.
Doesn't it receive photons?

...

I think he means the SNES port of Doom specifically.

If you can't play doom on every platform it was released on then you're probably gay

Adding a little to this, in digital image processing the term is called interpolation. Many (if not most) new LCD screens have dedicated logic you can use to "smooth" an image to a designated rate. The chip literally fakes a between-frame image and puts it in the stream. Our visual cortex does not, and can not do this.

Because it it doesn't make a fucking difference if it's consistent.

Wait you actually get motion sickness? The only thing I get is stuttering and that disappears well into the game. I only notice when dealing with higher framerates for long enough.

So where can I go to learn moar.

Mine was also 50Hz, which became painstakenly apparent, when we started shifting more and more towards flat screen TV. I only just got a flat screen TV 2 years ago.
Quite a few games in the PS3/360 time had a little icon saying, "Only 60Hz", rendering it unplayable for me.

I get headaches, but I have heard of some people that get physically sick when playing games at lower framerates.

Yeah, he probably meant photons. Those photons excite the detection cells in the retina, I forget their names. There are 4 types of detection cells, 1 each for red, green and blue wavelengths (I forget actual wavelengths), and one for general light levels, detecting all photons, but not their wavelengths (which is what gives us black and white vision in near darkness, these cells are more sensitive).

Mmmm!!! Yummy yum yum!!! I love to eat shit!!! mmmmm!! more, I have no standards, I'm dirty little fucking whore, ram that turd down my throat daddy! RAM IT!!! Make me guzzle your diarrhea

great response
10/10

this made me wonder about the existence of a porn video where instead of using his dick a guy leaves a big turd hanging and penetrates the woman with it

...

The photons are absorbed by the rods/cones receptors which fire off chemical signals that produce a new stream of electrons to the brain.

I said transcode, but that's a clumsy technology term. I'm not certain of the correct biological term. What I know about electrochemical signaling is that it involves sodium/potassium pumps releasing ions.

I suck at biology.

I heard it's much worse in the VR gimmick, as anything below 90fps can induce nausea in many people when moving their heads.

>>>/oven/

This is honestly going to sound like a dick response, but the library.

Hell even NIH's website has a lot of information about human anatomy it's just hard to navigate.

That's what I mean. It runs absolutely horrible, and even aside from the cool Red Cartridge there's no reason to play it when there are more interesting ports of Doom available.

Again, getting sick or not is something very subjective.

Low frame rates are less noticeable at low resolutions. That and very few games ran above 30. One day, when 120/144hz becomes standard, we will look back and ask how we played games at 60fps.

They are basically blind to this kind of thing OP

Citation needed. It occurs to me that low frame rates would be more noticible with less information available per frame…

I also remeber thinking the n64 castlevania was garbage because it felt so fucking slow

Then i emulated it on PC and the game was actually pretty decent

That's a damn fucking lie and you know it, unless they're tiny drops when playing playing F-Zero or something, then you won't notice it because it's not lagging to shit.
You're either baiting, misinformed, fanboying, or legitimately retarded.

BOY! I sure hate it when people don't eat shit like I do, I better tell them to end themselves because they won't gobble down gobs of shit like I do! Oh, it's so delicious, mmmf, so smelly and brown and stinky, the stench penetrates my nostrils. It's so strong, oh momma, please, feel me your stanky caviar!!! Do it like you did it to daddy! Oh yeah, that's the stuff, that's the fucking stuff, it's so succulent and juicy sliding down my throat!! ooohhhooohhhhh, yessss!!! FFFFFUUUUUUCK!!~

Not even once,

The ONLY actually innovative dungeon. But then i can raise you Spirit Temple, which also uses both young and adult link, as well as using the Mirror shield. turning up-side down was the ONLY innovative mechanic of MM.

Not to mention OOT doing many more mechanics first
Not to mention OOT has 9+ dungeons not counting ice cave, well or other mini dungeons, all well designed for every room. MM has a lot of empty nothing-in-them rooms with no puzzles and meh enemy placements.

You are objectively wrong. MM only added one innovation to the formula outside of 3 races-masks (actual combat gameplay and dungeon design)

OOT takes the credit for everything else.

Majora's Mask has more chores than OOT. Look at all the non-combat mask obtaining quests. You have to be kidding. Look at the zora egg gathering. Look at every single "gotta do all these boring shit to enter the dungeon" quests. They are all incredibly boring with the exception of the one before Stone Tower Temple. You are factually wrong.

Kotake and Koume/Twinrova
Shadow temple boss
Volvagia
all the mini bosses were fucking great (MM's rehashed some too btw)
Spirit of Ganon was really well designed which emphasized on proper use of the arrow, being aware of your surroundings, aiming at the right reaction time. It was a well designed boss.
Every single OOT boss, even the simple ones (the first three. hence the first three) utilize the dungeon treasures in a very good manner.

Oh and, just to add, MM has no actual Dungeon treasures besides rehashing the use of the Fire/Ice/Light arrow. I appreciate their uses in the MM dungeons, but it's nothing new. Hence MM is merely a Mod/expansion to OOT.

Playing a game for the story is like eating the hamburger for the tomato. If you wanna be a hipster and prefer a game with objectively less gameplay content and quality. Even if we agree the gameplay quality is the same, MM's burger is just a small burger, except with masks to add a hipster pizzazz of flavor, which tastes more of ketchup than meat itself.

Majora's mask is a good game, mind you. But stating MM is better than OOT is being a spoiled child, unaware and unable to appreciate the great things that OOT has and MM rehashed/brought from it. MM is but a mod/expansion to OOT. anyone saying MM is better is honestly spoiled.

Then get some fucking standards, you autistic scat sucker.

You're the one with the scatological fixation.

less pixel count means there's less things to move every refresh and thus a less noticeable feedback, input lag is of course still the same.
Imagine that with few pixels, a refresh is so close to another that a pixel doesn't have to change colors as often as a higher resolution screen would have to. It's an oddity of how display tech works

Worked well at the time, honestly. Hell, Goldeneye ran at 15 with the occasional dip to about 5 depending on what was going on and it was still doable.

The jump to 3D gaming on consoles had to be met with some compromises. Past a certain price point and you might as well have gotten a PC instead. Thing is though, like most people, I don't consider most technological specs when I get a game or console. I just see gameplay I like and buy it. Arguing otherwise probably just makes you a liar or someone who just wants to argue for the sake of doing so.

Dude I am not going to get this autistic about a game.
Keep believing what you will

Again
It's Okay When Nintendo Does It

Why do you feel the need to make these long ass posts

Nice!

and you and everyone else still bump a bait thread

It's the strongest example I could think of you.
You're the cancer killing videogames.

Fair Enough.

A Link to the Past Beats them Both anyway

Why were you thinking of scat and why did you have that shit saved on your computer?

What's the matter? not brief and meme-splashed enough for you to discuss?

Holy fuck back to reddit if you want 150 twitter post replies.

as long as he dumps it on shitty threads i don't seea nything wrong with his shitty shit fetish

If there's something I learned is that it's dumb to get into discussions with people that love OoT unconditionally.
It's just really not worth it.

I'm glad you can be this passionate about a game though.

Here is a man with actual taste in videogames.

The good thing about OOT is that it also resembles LLTP more than MM.

t. expert biologist

It's due to the fact that your standards are so low that you'd eat shit on a plate if it was presented to you. Also, I searched it up, you thick-headed fucking idiot.

I agree.
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
Gameplay wise, OoT is very mediocre when played vanilla.
It's pretty good in HD and 60fps though. I really like the music from it.

They both resemble it somewhat, I did like how the 'Dark World' came back in OoT, at least briefly.
It still doesn't hold a fucking candle to AlttP.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, hipster.

those cut marks hue

Nigga, those retards actually enjoyed Goldeneye, there is nothing more to say.

I've read up on it and I'm only seeing it in relation to interpolation. Oh and staying up close to the screen.

Oh and if you think OoT is bad Majora's Mask is 17-20fps.

...

I use ixquick.

You really DO love to eat shit.
Jesus fucking christ. I don't want to know what you browse or play anymore, begone with you, demon.

Very mature of you.
This is exactly the reason why it's not smart to discuss this.

It's like the most tumblr person that ever tumblr'd…

Are you autistic?

I played OOT a year ago since I never did a three-heart, shield-less, broken goron knife run and I had a blast.

granted 60 fps is always better but it didn't stop me from enjoying myself. If you need 60 fps/ 1080p in order to enjoy yourself, then sorry man, but you're spoiled by today's standards.

Of course, if I can play in 60fps I always will, but not touching a game because it is in an old console, you're denying yourself from enjoying a good game.

...

What a waste of quads.

Calling out on a logical fallacy (ad hominems) is hardly a sign of autism. You're spouting the very same retarded reply as "Are you mad bro? xD"

It's time shitpost, boys!

I enjoyed it too though, I'm saying that the people holding it as the best thing ever are fucking stupid.

It's good, not great, not amazing.

It's a lose/lose situation with you, isn't it?
Go back to whatever circlejerk you came from and wallow in that pigpen, plebian.

i like how hipsters and libshits always think they're smart or knowledgeable in a subject solely because they have no fucking idea about anything

...

You're the one who refuses to rebuke or reply to my counter-argument. A testament you have no way to reply or rebuke. Then you follow it up by going "man this is too autistic guys! video games discussion this long? fuck that! clearly you're immature because I say so so I win! MM is better! take that!"

Now you're racing the clock to end the discussion, as a follow-up of a lack of counter-argument.

You either can't have proper, long discussions on a video-game discussion board because you're a short-attention span retard, or you have no ammunition to reply with.

Whenever you actually come up with something to rebuke with, let me know. I'm always open to discussion.

while on the subject of search engines and straw mans, whatever happened to the NIL riddle?

It's time to stop posting

You've gone straight up crazy buttmad every time someone responded to you.
You just don't seem the guy I would like to discuss something like this, that's it really. I'm not going to discuss something because I want to be right, I want to discuss something if the other person either has interesting opinions or factual backing.
You seem to have a lot of very subjective opinions that are not very interesting, since I've heard every single one of them a thousand times from other OoT fans.

If you want to believe the fact that I don't want to write a 500 words post rebuttal to yours makes you right then you're completely free to believe so.

...

Oh also, are you the same guy that asked me to debate him on why Elite Dangerous wasn't complete shit? You write very similarly

Wow, get a life neetcuck

...

Faggot, movies 1) have motion blur to smooth it out 2) you don't control directly. Games require higher framerate.

I'm of the opinion that different games require different framerates. An FPS should always be 60; you're running around in that view and lots of shit is happening, after all. Zelda (3D games), however, are a slow and methodical series that benefit far more from getting those beautiful fantasy environments at the cost of 30fps. I almost never notice the 30fps cap in Zelda, even when I'm closer to the screen.

But the N64 Zeldas. Oh fuck am I glad we left the early 3D era as soon as we did. 20FPS (with drops and lag spikes at times) in blurry, blocky, simple environments looks actually sickening at times, with special mention to whenever the camera pans around a fucking environment. People only put up with it because at that point in gaming, 3D was an exciting, amazing experience and we would look past the limitations. And OOT and MM are great games underneath the graphics.

My advice? Play OOT and Majora on 3DS only. It looks and runs better, fixes many problems (standout examples being Water Temple boot swap in OOT and skipping time by hour in MM), and they're great games.

Also: Ocarina of Time, or Majora's Mask? Both are great but Majora's Mask is better in many ways IMO and is my favorite Zelda.

Motion blur actually works in movies. In games they have to fudge it.

Summer

Fucking MMfags, man. they just can't have an open mind. Narrative is more important than gameplay for them.

And no, I'm not. did you also stop replying to a discussion when someone disagrees with you in that game?

We weren't spoiled entitled brats

Take your meds. We're not all the same, aside from our objectively better taste

I think you got me wrong. I personally think both games are okay. Just that MM is slightly less bad.
I dunno though, you seem to have a pretty strong narrative yourself.

Not really, I just kept talking about the game instead of arguing with someone that would not have changed his mind anyways.
I really don't see why you have to get so defensive about this. I just said I don't want to argue about a game, there's really no need to get this mad over a game.

motion blur in film is mainly controlled by camera shutter speed it has nothing to do with "smoothing it out"

...

movies have no immersion, also proper motion blur since it's not real time. It's annoying because i can easily discern from every single frame though, now imagine that while a lightbulb visibly flickers

I don't care what causes it, the motion blur helps. What do you mean?

Now you're concocting a narrative.

This thread started as a thread about FPS in OOT and MMfags just had to smear their shit all over the place. Of course you cucks are annoying. Now you do the crocodile tears. Smells not only like reddit (little attention span) but also SJW (woah there :) silly nerds…heh im chill therefore i'm correct)

Kill yourself. If you're not going to contribute to the thread then fuck off.

polite sage because off-topic.

Anything under 50fps is literally unplayable.

You mean 691193. No need to be in an autismal fanboy fit if you can't bother following IDs.

since there are a lot of uneducated dumbasses in here I'll give you some info. motion blur is an inherent part of photography/film is related to the camera's shutter speed, its not really a choice to 'smooth it out' in your own words. cranking up or reducing shutter speed creates and eliminates blur as an artist desires, which is what games try to replicate. I cant be arsed to find exact clips but Saving Private Ryan is a well-known example of various shutter speeds (Crank, 28 Days Later, tons of movies use it). embedded clip shows the effect shutter speed has on blur well

MMfags are still unbearable in general.

And I don't even hold OOT as best game ever. They're just unbearable how they can't appreciate the good things of the game that pretty much molded them and credits for 80% of the game.

I appreciate the clarification, and that's actually really interesting. But my main point was that movie, no matter how they do it, have motion blurring, which helps with the 24FPS. That was what I was saying. But that's neat that they control it with the shutter like that.

I never recommend Majora's Mask for the 3DS purely because it's one of the art style overhauls.

yeah exactly, the blur is just an inherent part of images captured sequentially on a film plane/sensor, it gets even more technical with the actual shape & movement of the shutter itself. its what games are trying to replicate these days. saged for off-topic

I like both games, but that's because most of the action games for the N64 were shit beyond Zelda, Mario and Goemon.

Movies are 24fps due to a compromise
Movies were originally shot on film. Film, unlike digital space, is expensive as fuck.
So they needed to find a compromise, the minimum amount of frames that would make the movie not fuck with your eyes and still keep the audio in sync.
The lowest number of frames with those conditions were 24

pardon the trip, forgot to remove it

I would say you're fucking unbearable, OOTfaggot. Is your opinion "correct"? No. Fuck you. The only thing you're right about is that OOT was revolutionary when it came out. But I argue that MM built on that foundation to create a game that was better in every way, and even one of the best games of all time. For an extreme example, claiming OOT is better for its innovation is like claiming Pong is the greatest game of all time because it basically created gaming.

I prefer the left, because the graphics are better, and the environment is brighter and more colorful. Actually I love the water temple in the 3DS version, the engineering aesthetic with the gold color walls/cogs and the water pipes and bright blue water is beautiful. Love that dungeon. Also, they brightened up the graphics for OOT and MM so that you can see them better on 3DS, especially when you're outside. It's a common handheld gaming practice.

Let me ask, though: what do you think is "lost" in the left screenshot versus the right?

Entirely different atmosphere, Majora's Mask on the N64 is dark and always has this foreboding feeling while the 3DS feels completely different.

Except MM wasn't better than OOT in anything except substance (NPC interaction and story).

OOT has better content and more content for reasons stated if you scroll up and read the thread before posting

I'm done with you.

The 3DS version still has that dark and foreboding feeling in my opinion. The water temple is an engineering themed water area, it really benefits from the bright colors. Ikana is still a dark, spooky place, it still gets dark at night and it rains on day 2, the moon is still pissed, characters still die before your eyes, Deku place is still a poisoned swamp with a dark temple area and dank woods… and so on. I think the changes made were intelligently done and I find them better than the N64 version. But maybe we have to agree to disagree.

Just want to point out that this guy came to my same exact conclusion after wasting time arguing with you

hercules the legendary journeys ?

ok then. You're welcomed to actually discuss instead of making projections.

Then don't, nerd. I don't have to make a safe space for you MMfags to be comfortable speaking on. If you can't just throw counter-arguments then don't. You're always welcomed to actually discuss when you decide to actually refute with facts instead of feelings. I don't get triggered when people dissent with me like you do.

You're welcome to do that too, faggot;
Nice discussion. All you've done is say OOT is better, you're right, MMfags are unbearable, MM sucks, OOT is revolutionary amazing timeless, ooga booga. Go fuck yourself.

My only gripe with the remaster is the ugly yellow filter they threw over it so that the 3D wouldn't be thrown off by contrasting colors. Hopefully it will be removable.

the difference between the animation framerate and the movement framerate is really jarring.
it's even worse than bioshock running at 60fps while the physics ran at 30

Maybe because back then people just played games because they were fun, and weren't little faggots. Just a thought. Whether this is bait or not, I'm sure there is some stupid kid who thinks this, to them, I say, "Fuck you, and get out of here"

I never played it. I did play Majora's Mask but never figured out how to go back in time during the third day.

What is your point regardless, OP?

at least it's not gta 5 where physics refresh rate is tied to frame rate and the game's physics have a multitude of bugs affected by how fast physics refresh, not to mention the inconsistency variable physics refresh rate gives and the different experiences for different players that come with it. (for instance the higher your frame rate in game the faster all vehicles are and the faster they accelerate since there's a bug in game that makes your car get a speed boost every time the suspension is compressed and so with a higher physics refresh rate not only is a car's suspension softer and more prone to kick in on the smallest of bumps, the bug just fires many times more at a high refresh rate). Physics should always be locked for games, however animations are irreedemable unless it's a console game like ocarina of time

Might just be me, but a lot of the characters seem just sped up and tweaky.

i literally fell motion sickness when trying to play OoT, it's that bad.
anyone who defends this game has autism, without a doubt, without fail, they have autism.

Checkin' those triple dubs

Fuck off back to Reddit, nigger. When someone says "a big ass makes your dick rock hard" you don't ask for a ducking citation, do you?

It's not rocket science. We don't need your godawful smelly fedora stinking up our Holla Forums. It's bad enough as it is.

60 FPS never really was and still isn't a standard, it only memed itself into reality once PCs got powerful enough they could actually support such a concept.

Most people who play video games don't really care about a consistent 60+ FPS framerate so long as it runs and with some semblance of smoothness, which I can vouch for myself as the proud owner of a potato computer used to sub-60 FPS on absolute minimum settings for games made after around 2008-2010.

fuck it. I'm willing to double down and say that with older consoles, 30 fps is fine as long as the artstyle and mechanics permit it

also obligatory

Agreed OP. People on this site seem not to like it :(((. I dont get why *sadfrog*, any time I have posted about this game being one of my favorites of all time, I get called names. Uhhhh sometimes I don't understand these people, i think they just like to hate popular things but watevzzzz

this IS my favorite game. I could play it right now and not be bored by it in the LEAST. I remember playing it literally every day as a kid LOL, gamer nerdz in the makingz amirite??. I was such a little nerd then, oh and I STILL am today too XD. I got the guide book and everything. Because I got stuck in the water temple, the one where you had to carry around that Zora Princess UHH was she rude much ???? typical girl >.< I still get angry thinking about that LEVEL ughhhhhhh, IM A GROWN MAN NOW STOP. I can still sing the songs of that game till this say from memory, I will find myself humming them sometimes at work, and people look at me like "Is that the Nicki Minaji songs ??" LOL, I'm just like "noperzzz, if only you people knew true music". And that is what makes this game good is its one of the classics and its not one of these violent shooters with blood and guts that all the kiddies like now a days. uhhhhh kids these days have no idea what they are missing. I mean like wow think about all the good games that being raised in the 90's gave us SO MANY CLASSICS. Kids these days will say Call of Duty, Gears of War, and Halo, pshhhhshhhawwww I say, I will tell you Legend of Zelda, Super Smash Brothers and Donkey Kong those are my games, something a kid like you could NEVER understand. I guess thats why games now are sooo stupidddd now, its because people didnt grow up with good ones so they like dumb ones, wow really sad if you think about it. Guess its a good thing emulators exist huh my fellow PC BROS *HIGH FIVE* *BRO FIST*, with the power of the PC, the classics will live FOREVER OP no need to worry ;)

What utter garbage. Any FPS or fighting game that runs at less than 60 frames per second is instantly noticeable.

Noticeable, but there are a few FPS that can very much be played at 30. Motion blur and general art style can go a long way. I've had the unpleasant experience of playing shit like Insurgency at 30 and honestly it didn't fuck up too much. It really does depend on how you go about making the game, shit can be built around a poor framerate.

But they did.
It didn't do sub 60 until later in its life cycle.

MGS2, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy 10, 11 and 12

I was 10 years old when Ocarina of Time release. Back then I had no understanding of the concept of frames per second, or sky boxes, or textures, or 3D models, or polygons, or rigging, or tessellation, or memory usage, or any of that shit. I only saw the magic, as most children do.

Framerate importance by genre:

Fightan
Racan
Shootan
Stylan
Platforman
Action Adventuran
Role playan
Puzzlan

...

Run them on the original system to see for yourself. The difference in performance of something like FF12 and MGS3 is night and day.
Or are you telling me you can't tell the difference between 30 frames missing per second?

This, except I was 14. This thread is retarded revisionism, compared to what we had at the time it looked great, played great, and felt smooth, we didn't know or care about the technical details outside of "N64 games have '64 bit' graphics!" All we cared about was "is it fun? is it more fun than other games? is it prettier than the other games we have access to?"

The same retarded revisionism goes on with FFVII, DKC, Super Mario World, Sonic, Tomb Raider, etc. I remember being absolutely stunned by every one of those games compared to what I had experienced before them.

Nigger you were a little shit back then. You didn't know any better. Kids watch and enjoy minecraft videos and pewdiepie online. Do you really think at that age you have some sort of insight that people are missing now?

PAL = 50 fps
NTSC = 59 fps

IT'S NOT FUCKING 30 YOU DOUBBLE NIGGER
With the execption of MGS3 that ran at 30

At least your bait thread worked like a charm

I've played 10 and 12 and in no way do they run at 60. FF12 especially, as that game pushed the PS2 to its limit. They weren't choppy, but they're not running at a full 60 fps.

Good to know you can't tell the difference. This is like someone saying that the sun is actually pink instead of white.
MGS3 push the PS2 to its limit, Shadow of the Colossus pushed the PS2 to its limits and both of them have sub 60 fps to show for it.

A lot of PS2 games didn't run at full 60 you faggot. A lot of the JRPGs were not at 60. RE4 definitely wasn't at 60.

Also, some PAL games had an option to run in NTSC mode if a PAL TV could support it.

RE4 was gimped on the PS2 just so that it could run at 60
Are you fucking blind? Have you actually touched a single PS2 game?

Keyword being some
Most PAL games were straight conversions where they actually slowed the game down from 60fps to 50fps and running them on a NTSC signal would cause timing issues and the game straight up wouldn't work.
You are claiming games didn't run at 60fps while all your examples run at 60fps in NTSC. Do you actually have any facts to back your shit up or are you just retarded whose only exposure to FF10 was the HD rerelease?

Nigger those games weren't at 60 fps. They ran at around 30-40fps, and stayed at that framerate with minimal to no vsync issues, hence why you think they're running at 60. Again, they weren't choppy or stuttering, they just didn't run at 60.

Nigger, this not 60.

-because it was an early 3D platformer and the frame rate isn't even noticeable (until pointed out) with how it was designed in the first place? The animations look perfectly fine all things considered and If Ocarina of Time has any issue with things taking too long it's because some areas are unnecesarilly big (but then again I guess that's on purpose to wow you when things seem smaller as adult Link).

I'm to lasy to get actual ps2 screenshots

Did you actually run it on 1080p 60fps?
What about that isn't 60fps? The readout that says 60fps?

I wasn't denying that some games had that option but many games were lazy conversions which slowed the game on PAL release. FF10 and DMC1 are examples of the lazy conversion.

Every Kingdom Hearts game except for KH3D HD is 30fps.

Most games ran at far below 60. Bully ran at around fucking 24 fps from what I remember. Fuck off.

I'm watching it 720p 60 fps. That game is clearly running at somewhere around 30-40 fps.

Protip: You know when PS1, PS2, N64, and other emulators read out 60FPS? That's usually because it's reading out the speed of how the game is supposed to be running as if it's on original hardware. If the game is supposed to be running at 30 fps on original hardware, then the emulator views that as 60 because that's the maximum speed the game is designed to run at.

PS2 shows Framerate
PS1 and N64 show VIPS or Percent Speed.
You can configure Retroarch to show real speed. You can also configure PCSX2 to show percent speed. Compare the readouts for the framerate and percent speed for yourself in something like MGS3 or Shadow of the colossus

Got any source on that?

Sorry, I don't use that piece of shit.

I know, and I know for a fact that what posted are games that are not running at 60 fps. As you can see most people are already posting other examples like Bully that also did not run on the PS2 at 60 fps. Sorry, but I guess you haven't played many PS2 games in awhile to realize most of them were around 30 to 45 fps or so.

Embed related. THIS is what a 6th generation console game looks like running at 60 fps.

That was all we got back then and we were thankful to get it.

Bait thread?
This was early 3d user. It was amazing there was even 3d.

TRIPS OF TRUTH

Exaggerating a bit there, typically the majority of games ran at between 20-30 FPS (FPS is lower for the PAL version of course) but F-Zero X was one of the first 60 fps games. And some of these games aren't even designed with an FPS limit and to play at a better framerate if it detects beefier specs like Goldeneye 64, and others were coded to run for higherspecs too but I'm not sure if Project64 takes advantage of this yet.

Jet Force Gemini, Perfect Dark and Conkers Bad Fur Day drop to single digit framerates
In case of Jet Force gemini there are entire sections that run at around 8 FPS

Ah yes the lag issues from the N64 not being able to keep up and Z-Buffering. Go play Goldeneye and blow shit up it drops to single digit framerates too. Perfect Dark is the only one of those games you listed where it pushed the N64 too much, the other two you listed runs alright most of the time and only lags under certain conditions.

*Oh and Jet Force Gemini only has those lag problems when there is something wrong with your cartridge otherwise it runs fine. I should know I actually did own it and it got worse overtime as the cartridge wore out.

...

Well Mibster Egsbert, nerbs are diverant den nurbons:

There is, however (and as I mentioned) a nerve that connects the retina to the brain.

t. user

forgot pic

it's like you summerfags don't even try

The only thing missing is being a part of otherkin.

Did ANY 3D N64 or PS games run at 60 FPS? I think the N64 would handle that thing a little better since it could actually do 3D, but maybe the PS gets something by not bothering with a Z buffer. I don't know much about computers though.

EgoRaptor please go, no one cares about your awful taste in videogames or ayyliens

tbh smh fam you're a double nigger

Summerfags: kill yourselves.

web.cs.wpi.edu/~claypool/papers/fr-rez/paper.pdf

bbk.ac.uk/psychology/our-staff/academic/tim-smith/documents/ATOCC_timjsmith_final_plusrefs_plusfigs.pdf

Seriously kill yourselves.

this isn't even a fucking thing, git gud

CRT 120
N64 20

(120+20)/2=70fps
jokes on u fag

Can we all agree that ocarina is the standard for 3d zeldas and alttp is for 2d zeldas?

Both are really great games, and considering it has almost been 20 years since ocarina was released, people are still talking about it. Hell if youre a fps fag, play the 3ds version. I grew up with the originals and they were fucking great for the time, but they have been outsmarted by their newest iterations, both oot3d and albw.

I put majora and tp on a different scale because the story barely revolves around zelda, they are great gaiden games, but in the general sense theyre pretty much irrelevant to ththe hyrule story.

None is a perfect game, but they set standards fags, more than your favorite games

Iirc both f zero and xtreme g did. I may be wromg tho

Yep. Although, I'd say Zelda 1-3 (all 2D) are the standard for Zelda period, but if we're going 3D then, yes OoT and the games closest to it are the only things that really even remotely resemble Zelda. Everything else in 3D has been a competition of how hard the series can jump the shark.

What kind of mental gymnastics do you need to make such a shit argument?

human eye can't see over 60 fps

Zelda went to shit after II tbh.

the human eye is analog and doesn't have a sample rate you fucking retard.

not just enemy placement. the game looks like a poorly designed mod. shits just pasted all over seemingly at random

git gud

a valid analogy, mmfag.

It's not, it's fucking retarded,
Especially in games where the story and the decision of where the story goes is part of the gameplay, like RPGs.

kys

user..

Story should never take precedence over gameplay. Show me one story-focused videogame that also has excellent gameplay.

you for real bro

Now that you mention it: I always thought that there was something off about Ocarina. Like it was going to slow somehow. Thanks for making me realize, OP.

Metal Gear Solid 3, Fallout New Vegas, Half Life, Portal, Wind Waker.
I could probably name some more but that's all I have for now.

this is why MM has less content than OOT. It's gameplay being only , arguably, "as good" because it copy pasted from OOT.

MM is a mod/expansion of OOT. Nothing else. Saying it is "its own game" is wrong.

MM's substance is good but hardly worth the trade of for less content. Also the entire quest shit to access dungeons was a chore and it ruins replayability.

Saying it is it's own game is wrong, given it rehashed ALL assets from OOT. **

...

What the fuck are you even talking about you fucking sperg
Are you telling me you actually believe OoT and MM have good gameplay?
Are you fucking retarded?

Taking the bait probably, but FNV definitely is a case where story carries the gameplay for the most part, IMO.

MGS3's story is ridiculous on its own, but works great with the gameplay. Kind of a problem in that you don't really have great writers working on games, yet. It's still pretty much in its infancy as mediums go, given writing is completely optional to good games.

I suffered through at least 200 hours of Hyrule Warrior's on the old 3DS, which runs at like 20 FPS or some shit.

I-it's not so ba-, at least I didn't pay for it!

What the hell am I meant to use that works then

What?

What is so hardcore about a game that you pass after dying for the tenth time and just remembering everything? Real skill is to be able to make and execute split-second decision based on situations you didn't know that are coming. Having average memory span has nothing to do with skill

We still talking about this shit?

The gameplay in FNV is perfectly serviceable, it doesn't have any major flaws.

The fact that you don't like MGS3's story is absolutely subjective, making your whole point moot.

I have no idea TBH.

I tried playing it on a friend's virtual console a while back and holy shit I felt sick after a little while. I suppose an old tube TV back then helped with its built in low-res and motion blur bullshit. And my lack of standards because I was literally an uneducated child no doubt contributed.

Nowadays I require 60fps and a decent FOV and no shaky cam effects or else it's a one way ticket to Spew City and it's only getting worse with age. I never thought I would mentally outgrow video games, but it seems I'm definitely physically out-growing them…

Pre-Edo samurai actually tended to use the bow more than a katana.

Actually most games since the NES and megadrive ran 60 FPS but it just simply didn't have near that in frames of animation

Well tell me where the moon, the poison water textures, all the bosses, the aliens and you know the moon and so on.
Back to Reddit

These posts are so bad it's physically painful to read them, in fact it's amazing you are unable to grasp that MM improves on OoT in every single way.

Incorrect, in fact the only similarity is that they are both themed around water. The Water Temple was designed around raising/lowering the water level to proceed, which in theory is sound but in practice was a tediously-paced disaster, mostly due to the laborious process of equipping and de-equipping the Iron Boots, as well as the fact that movement speed was greatly slowed while wearing them. Contrast this with the Great Bay Temple, which is centered around changing the direction of the flow of water, rather than adjusting its height. This is superior to OoT since water movement in the game is achieved through the Zora Mask, which unlike the tedious drudgery of the Iron Boots, is fast-paced, streamlined and exhilarating. The Zora Mask offers all the functionality of the Iron Boots plus high-speed swimming, a defensive electrical shield, and slashing and projectile attacks while walking along the floor. In fact, the Zora Mask is such an excellent game mechanic, if not solely for the fact that it makes traversing water - typically a painful aspect of gameplay - into something fast and intense, a feat I can't say many other games have accomplished.

Again, there is little resemblance between the Deku Tree and Woodfall Temple, other than the surface-level detail than they both involve plants in some way. Whereas the Deku Tree was designed around a vertical challenge, with many of its rooms containing towering heights to climb or large pits to fall through, the Woodfall Temple is based around both lateral and vertical movement, with the player forced to explore a sprawling dungeon layout mastering the flying ability of the Deku, as well as its water-skipping ability. Projectile warfare is also important in this dungeon, since the Deku's bubble-firing ability is useful for attacks against flying enemies and to dislodge items hidden on walls, and later the Bow is introduced for human Link to use.

Again you only seem to be able to talk about surface level details, such as that both dungeons involve fire in some way. Admittedly, however, this is the only point I'll agree with here, since the Fire Temple is definitely more memorable than Snowhead, mostly due to its more consistent aesthetic theme, larger, more complex layout, and that its eerie chanting background music is better than Snowhead's forgettable electronic tune. Although you again make some weird, arbitrary arguments here, such as that the Fire Temple is better because it "doesn't rely on mask mechanics for its puzzles." There's nothing bad about using the masks, since they're really just groups of functions tied to a single item. Saying MM's puzzles are bad for "relying on masks" is like saying OoT's puzzles are bad for "relying on items".

Wrong again. The Spirit Temple only uses the past/future aspect of OoT as a way to divide the temple into two halves; you must complete the first half of the dungeon as a child before you can even enter it as an adult. Compare that with the Stone Tower Temple, in which switching between the upside-down and rightside-up version of the temple is done multiple times throughout, and can be done dynamically. And even then the Mirror Shield is present in the Stone Tower Temple as well, and sees more use in it.

And then having MM improve or even perfect them. MM added more useful songs, and replaced the redundant "temple warping" songs (ie Bolero of Fire, Minuet of Forest, etc) with a single warping song that could move you to a larger variety of locations. MM condensed a lot of the redundant items, and replaced them with many of the different functions of the transformation masks, giving the gameplay a faster pace, and made many of these functions still useful in the late-game. MM's time mechanics were more thoroughly thought and far more tied to the game mechanically and thematically (you use the Ocarina of Time in Majora's Mask more than you do in Ocarina of Time). MM made the tedious water movement of OoT better by making it faster and allowing for quick underwater combat. MM made Epona far more useful. MM made ground movement better by allowing you to roll in the Goron form. Shit, even minor things such as the game menu were made better (MM's is better laid out and faster to navigate through).

Incorrect again, and also arbitrary, given that many of OoT's dungeons were themselves very much linear key hunts. Saying that the Zora egg hunt is boring because it involves hunting for items ignores that the same logic can be applied to dungeons in general. It also ignores that the sidequests in MM were typically far more open-ended and freeform, unlike OoT's dungeons which typically involved acquiring a number of keys in a linear sequence.

They also often required using items that are never touched again. The Mirror Shield is rarely used outside of the Spirit Temple and its boss. The Hover Boots are rarely used outside of the Shadow Temple and its boss. The Slingshot is arbitrarily unable to be used in adult form. The hammer is almost never used outside of the Fire Temple and its boss. Contrast that with MM, in which bosses could be defeated in a number of different ways, and many of the items and functions of the transformation masks acquired throughout the game maintained their use throughout, instead of being immediately useless outside of the area they were acquired in.

Retarded, seeing as MM added actual functionality to these items. The Light Arrow in OoT was only used for the final boss, and to shoot a few of those glowing balls in Ganon's Temple, unlike in MM in which it was integral to the Stone Tower Temple and in areas beyond. The Fire Arrow was used to light the occasional torch in OoT, but never really necessary, unlike in MM where it can also thaw ice and heavily damage certain enemies. The Ice Arrow was literally useless in OoT, but could freeze bodies of water in MM and even create small ice platforms on the surface of the water.

Also worth noting, again, that many of OoT's dungeon treasures are borderline useless outside of their dungeon.

Absolutely retarded. MM offered far more gameplay than OoT, was far more polished, was tighter, more refined, had superior combat, better puzzles, more thoroughly thought out dungeons, a richer world, and was far better written. Oh, and saying a game's story is meaningless and that gameplay is the only objectively important aspect is like saying movies are better when they are just visuals with no context. People praise MM's story not because it's actually that good, but because the gameplay ties in with it so well. Having to assume the identity of various dead NPC's as well as experience the oncoming Armageddon in real time is far more engrossing because it actually relates to what's going on in the context of the setting, and ultimately makes the game feel more human and believable.

You could honestly make the case that absolutely no game in existence requires skill, but instead, trial and error. Dark Souls fits all the criteria for it to be a hardcore game, not only that, as someone who managed to beat many bosses in the games without dying once, does that mean all of a sudden the game now takes skill? Your post makes me think of a butt-hurt retard or someone desperately trying to be elitist or contrarian to fit in with Holla Forums.