Help me decide

7.62x39mm is among the cheapest, and more prevalent ammo across the world. So go for the M70/PAP, as you'll probably never be able to put in the time to fully develop the skills to wield a long range rifle. An AK will serve you just fine.

>>>/k/500243

I'm unable to purchase m70 as civilian

I already have CZ99 :^)
And yeah I'm Yugo

I don't like attitude of faggots on /k/

If you've already got a handgun, then I would go with the PAP. But then I'd purchase the M2010 as soon as I could. You'd do well to set yourself up with a short-range (CZ99), mid-range (PAP) and long-range (M2010). This way you have capability to take out targets as near or as far as the M2010 will allow you to.
Happy hunting.

i'd still go with the pap and avoid the m2010, the ammo's cheaper and both rifles are more accurate than you are so it's more important to get the fundamentals of shooting than a rifle that shoots a big bullet. Actually, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a .22LR rifle to practice with too since the ammo's even cheaper and it has almost no recoil, you can shoot all day no problem.

I'm practicing with TOZ-17 Flobert which is like 30 years older than me and that shit doesn't even have recoil haha

most likely will do

then get the pap, 7.62x39 is effective within 300m and I doubt you'll be shooting at anything farther than that

Learn to bumpfire.

Pick a pistol then get a carbine in a matching calibre. This way you are only dealing with one calibre of ammo. The carbine will have plenty of range for what you are looking for unless you are wanting to LARP as a sniper.

This is going to start a shit fest but… if money is an issue you can get a matched 9mm hi-point pistol and carbine for like 400 bucks. They have lifetime warranties. Main down side with the hi-point carbine is its a little heavy and it's a single stack magazine so it's only gonna hold 10 rounds.

Money ain't issue, PAP costs around 96000 Serbian Dinars which is around 800€

Unless you literally skydive into enemy encampment you won't hit a thing. Also, aren't shotguns actually much better for home defense?

This is a thread for /k/, not for Holla Forums, but since it's here and I frequent both boards, here's my 2 shekels.

First, you want a pistol for daily carry. Most of the time you run into trouble outside of the house, so having a home-defense rifle is good but having a handgun is necessary for defense outside the home.
For a CC pistol, everyone has their own preferences. I like something compact but still powerful (personally, I carry a S&W MP Shield .40 w/ the extended clip; pic related). The short barrel and a single-stack mag make it super easy to conceal and carry without much bulk.
For home defense, you honestly don't want anything too powerful in terms of bullet velocity. Primarily, you don't want shots blasting through the wall and killing innocent people. Personally, I like a solid break-neck, over-under 12g shotgun for home defense, with my M&P on me for backup. Pump action is good for practice, but in the heat of the moment, it's likely you'll mis-pump and jam your gun (this is why I like break-neck shotguns, loading is very simple and hard to fuck up under stress).
A rifle is best for defense at a distance, which is the lest common form of self-defense. This is why I think self-defense rifles are sort of a silly topic. Anything that will put lead down-range will work, and without proper training, you'll probably miss most of the time.
In short, get a shotgun for actual home defense (00 buck, 12g), a handgun for personal defense (.40 cal or larger, at least 7 rounds), and a rifle for fun at the range (AR variants are fun to build and customize).

The Zastava M88 is also a nice choice, i have two of them
Very accurate after adjusting sights, have had no issues with any kind of JHP ammo and they're cheap at $200 shipped with $20 mags on ebay

rip
AK is a given since eastern europe, probably could probably go walk out to some woods and mags and shit since lol yugoslav wars.

By those pictures I assume they are RPK based rifles with 1.5 mm receivers and bulged trunnions vs the regular m70's we see over here?

The zastav's have had some poor heat treat on the receivers in the past few years so you might see the pin holes egging out or at high round counts you could see cracking. However that's the rifles and pistols we have available here, if those are RPK based like the pictures suggest then they probably should be better quality wise, and hopefully zastava would take some pride in things they are selling to their own people.


PCC's are memes if you only own one rifle and need it to be able to do serious defensive work. They have a place but certainly not as one's only rifle.

A good Remington Versa for the home and a Springfield XDs .45 for the hip.

Das it mane.

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gas yourself

CZ is a company in the Czech Republic, whereas Zastava is based in Serbia just wanted to correct you on that.

Getting back on topic, the pap is pretty good, but you should try holding both of them to see how the stock is against your cheek (my friends have problems handling the npap when I don't). Also consider a semi auto shotgun - those work wonders too

Actually after using jewgle for a bit you're right in this case, my mistake!

read the post faggot

The heat treat could be better on the RPK pattern shit they sell in Europe, but if they aren't doing it right on regular export rifles then they might be just fucking lazy and not doing it right on any of them. An RPK receiver will shitty heat treat will hold up better than a standard 1mm with the same shitty heat treat but it still doesn't change the fact that it has shitty heat treating and has a rockwell hardness like noodles.

He should go with a rifle that shoots an intermediate cartridge like the ones he posted. Semi auto shotgun mags deform the top shell in the magazine. Also, the rifle will hold more ammo, have easier and faster follow up shots in the case of more than one attacker, and is more precise making it less likely for you to hit someone you don't mean to. This is coming from someone who owns a VEPR 12. They are fun though.

Personally I would go with the Zastava. Make sure not to shoot corrosive ammo (who shoots corrosive 7.62x39 anyway?) as I don't think that the PAPs have chrome lined barrels.

Pretty sure he went out of his way to make that clear
They just started importing a Chinese Browning Auto 5 clone that's magazine fed for $140-200 and semi auto, pretty much the best deal for its price
centerfiresystems.com/p-9512-sas12-12ga-semi-auto-detachable-magazine-fed-shotgun.aspx
Theres also the Catamount Fury which is a Chinese VEPR-12/Saiga clone that will accept most Saiga parts or has adapters

Conjecture and isolated bullshit means nothing, I also have plenty of personal experience with several Zastava AKs and a VEPR for that matter

No yugo AKs do, also Yugo M67 is great surplus ammo when available but corrosive, much better performing than most 7.62x39FMJ and higher pressure

The Catamount Fury is shit. I've seen a fuck ton of reports on forums of them falling apart. One thing I know is that with AK pattern rifles/shotguns if you cheap out you will get complete crap.

Forgot link, $379 shipped in good condition which means like new for a unused rifle
classicfirearms.com/century-catamount-fury-1-12-ga-semi-auto
An adapter plate for Saiga mags is $14
carolinashooterssupply.com/Catamount_Fury_Magazine_Conversion_Saiga_Magazine_p/css-c12-magplate.htm

Source?
guns.com/review/battle-mag-fed-shotguns-vepr-vs-catamount-fury-ii/
Most reviews say they are as reliable/well built as a VEPR/Saiga but parts availability is not as good

Also its entirely a moot point when the only other choices are a used Saiga or VEPR for a much higher price since they are both banned now, Saigas were banned under Obama and Trump just allowed the VEPR to be banned and did nothing to stop it
thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/06/20/breaking-us-banned-vepr-due-sanctions-looks-like/

Holy shit. Any word on that Auto-5 clone's reliability? Will they be making larger capacity mags?

They have known and documented heat treating issues on the NPAP rifles and pistols, whether it applies to the RPK pattern guns is unknown.

>akoperatorsunionlocal4774.com/2016/11/important-update-zastava-npap-5k-rounds-rifle/
Receiver cracks near the rivets at 5k.

Battlefield las vegas full auto converted range guns experiencing severe cracking prematurely compared to other stamped AK pattern rifles

>akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277520
Some guy that sent out pieces of a scrapped new NPAP receiver as well as a old surplus zastava parts kit demiled receiver piece.

The soft receivers also lead to egging of the trigger and hammer pin holes.

No, those are not auto 5 clones, nor are they new imports. They've been imported for a few years under several different importers and now they are getting clearanced out since on one wants them since you can't find mags for them. And AK pattern shotguns aren't that good compared to something like a mossberg 930.

not a clone
non existence mag availability

I honestly can't seem to find them so take what I'm saying for what its worth, but I remember looking them up on AKFiles and VEPR.org before I bought a VEPR 12 and seeing some very negative things about the Fury.

They might be right about the fit and finish as the fit and finish on the VEPR 12 was a good bit below what I got with my VEPR 7.62x39. Honestly looking to sell the VEPR 12 once the price goes up because of the ban.

Honestly if those are your only two choices get the pap. The M2010 is for long range which requires practice and knowledge and honesty during civil unrest sniping will be the last thing on the menu.

>>akoperatorsunionlocal4774.com/2016/11/important-update-zastava-npap-5k-rounds-rifle/
I specifically mentioned the RPK receiver which is used specifically because it is stronger and less likely to crack, your post is nothing other than conjecture and a link to a NPAP rifle with a non-RPK receiver
Also AK 47-74OU is mostly bullshit speculation and a circlejerk by fanboys
The gas system is taken directly from the auto 5 and these were part of a recent batch or there are more supposed to be imported
opinion dropped

From the site

No shit, its a forum and you have brand loyal idiots who are typically defensive of their latest purchase
Most of it is conjecture/jingoism about muh china/Norinco

Alright goys. Talked to my dad who was ex Major in Serbian Army (Fought 90s wars and major shiet here) and he said that I should go for PAP and that he will take me to shooting range tomorrow to see if it fits me :^) Eventho he has M70 rifle but he has licence for it as retired military persona. You can get chrome lined barrels at Zastava at addition cost which is good

I already own something like that shotgun called Bokerica its 12g (pic related)

Oh god, just kill me now. John Moses Browning will send Space Jesus after them for that abominable heresy.

Congrats, you can't go wrong with almost any AK variant clone. They're hard to fuck up and even the cheaper ones will do what's needed within an absolute minimum of 50-200 meters

JMB is already spinning after seeing the new "Auto 5"
guns.com/review/new-browning-a5/
Other than aesthetics and the name, nothing is shared with the original Auto 5 shotguns, the gas system is different, the gun functions entirely differently and nothing is interchangeable

Both are coming out of the same factory, if their export rifles suffer heat treating issues, there reason to suspect their RPK's could also have heat treat issues. In practical terms though it would take quite a sum of money on ammo to cause those issues to pop up, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable.

cracks are cracks and considering WASR's don't have these cracking or egging issues at twice the round count, it's telling of the quality control at zastava.

The auto 5 is a long recoil action, those aren't. Go watch a video of the auto 5 and then on of those SAS12's and then tell me it's a clone.

AK pattern shotguns are known for reliability issues with light loads and being picky. The mags can cause issues as well if loaded for long periods of time because of the hulls of the shells being squeezed an possibly deformed due to pressure from the magazine spring, causing feeding issues.

the maverick's have some spic parts but are put together here, all of the other shotguns are US made parts and assembled.

They actually run with low brass birdshot without fucking with them, are cheaper than most AK pattern shotguns as well as actually having parts availability. And are less likely to have parts breakages.
>thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/07/07/fragile-part-vepr-shotguns/

really makes me hmmmm

i t i s n o t a c l o n e
Only similarity it has the similarly looking hump back on the rear or the receiver.

I'd probably get the chrome lined ones since those are probably get some closer attention QC wise.

Zero sources and you expect me to believe your bullshit over personal experience, also not sure why you are arguing about the VEPR when its pointless since they are banned

Absolutely, the only parts actually produced by Mossberg in the US is the stock and receiver, everything else is from Mexican subcontractors
I despise Mexico far more than China and the Beaners are currently far more of a immediate demographic threat to the US

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FAL's are a richfag's game.

at this point, I'd rather get a G3/PTR

FAL's are more interesting but from a sheer practicality stand point a PTR is a better option. I'll probably get one once I get some more pressing things bought and get a stable source of income since even steel .308 is a bit much for my tastes. The charging handle placement is horrific being left handed though. They were high $700 last year black friday so I am keeping an eye out this year to see if they go down to low-mid $700's. Shame they can't afford to sell the 32's at $800 ish, would be a genuine competitor for the AK market since prices of AK's have gone up so much.

Could probably justify it to myself as a hunting gun and be one of those autistic spergs that hunting durr with a battle rifle.

Probably will end up buying a garand instead though since CMP might get maybe 80k from the Flips at some point I heard.

Shit nigger, the Auto 5 didn't even have a gas system. It was long recoil.

youtu.be/BQD77feU-rY This guys channel is really good. Very informative and down to earth and doesn't do the whole "elite advanced operators guide to high speed multiple targets engagement" thing. Shit's outta the 80's with production though. Good shooting advice in general.

OP since you have good weapons for home defense already, you need to get an alarm system and some flood lights. Make your home unappealing to enrich. Make sure your family knows how to operate your weapons or at least tell when they are loaded and most importantly have a plan should the worst happen. You also need to consider what lies beyond your target. If you live in anything resembling suburbs goodifying a sand gentleman with a rifle round is going have your rounds go through him, and probably end up in your neighbors house depending on where you're shooting in relation to your neighborhood/home layout. Finally, your weapons won't do you much good if you don't train with them. Dry fire practice if range time is too expensive.

sage for misplaced /k/ thread

I don't like box mag fed shotguns, you can't keep the mag loaded for long periods of time ready to go because under full vertical spring pressure over time plastic shells warp and hurt feeding. You also typically get less capacity in magazines unless you get a huge and unwieldy mag when compared to tubes.

IMO get a Zastava or a good 8 shot pump shotgun, practice loading it.

Remember, you can top off a shotgun very easily unlike a mag gun. Proper shotgun dictates that any time you get a respite or go into cover you top off the tube.

You can also do round-saver ghost loading once you empty the tube but still need to keep shooting.

In gun restricted countries a pump shotgun is usally the best choice if legal. Cheap, adaptable, powerful, and shotguns are usually less regulated across the board.

Since you state that the only two rifles you can choose from are the Zastava PAP and the M2010… get the PAP. I have one, and it runs great. My only complaint (I have the semi-auto M70AB2) is that the folding stock hurts my check when firing it. So unless space is a consideration, I'd recommend the full stock. It can shoot a wide variety of ammo. Corrosive ammo is no problem, just be sure to clean it promptly using ammonia before whatever you use to clean it.

As others have said, be aware of your target and what is behind it. Full metal jacket rounds can go through people and walls and then other walls and other people.

He should also have all his family members purchase their maximum allowance of rifles too…

Automatic is fucking retarded (not that it should be illegal) unless its on a crew served weapon on a tripod used for suppression of a beaten zone. Detachable barrels are needed after 1000+ rnds.
Semi auto isn't just fine its recommended.

so much this. im shocked pump shotguns arent more popular than rifles as a first choice weapon. Shotguns are perfect defensive weapons, no mags, usually cheaper than rifles, and its more practical unless youre operating in a unit. You probably arent going to be shooting niggers or muslims more than 50 yards away, right? What kind of situation would that be where you need that much range besides a full blown war? US military shotguns are 2 and 3/4 inch if I remember correctly but Id say get a 3 incher so you can shoot all sorts of crazy/bigger loads like slug/shot combo.
They are a ton of fun too. ive had a blast just shooting skeet with my family.

that's good news, I've been meaning to get one for a while now

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Saigas are banned. You can still buy VEPRs, but they're expensive. Got mine for $900.

No frills though. Standard stock, etc.

I got my saga on a military base before they were done away with. It's almost doubled in price since. Kept it competely stock and "unconverted" with the 30rd mags, and it's a joy to shoot/suhweet.