Let a fascist tell you what fascism is

Sebastian Torres
Sebastian Torres

Marxists knew what fascism was is the interwar period but it seems you have lost touch. If I wanted to know what Marxism was I'd find out from a Marxist not a liberal. Now like liberals it's common for communists to call anything they don't like fascist. That bothers me because I don't appreciate being likened to those that consort with or excuse Sodomites.

Fascism is the belief that society is to be organised by natural law in order to create an organic state. That organic state will manifest differently depending on culture and religion of a people. Organic states are inevitable. Peoples once lived in organic states during the feudal era but all those institutions have since been destroyed which leaves us now the revolutionary option. Fascists are revolutionaries not reformists and fascists are spiritualists not materialists.

On the question of authoritarianism which liberals point to as the defining characteristic of fascism. It is and it isn't since you can't create an organic state over night. It's not a belief in authoritarianism that makes a fascist but rather that authoritarianism is a necessity to make the transition to an organic state. All the diseases that infect nations will have to be purged.

The organic state is inevitable since we are at the end stages of a dying civilisation that deserves its ending and cannot be saved. Fascists could do nothing and eventually organic states will form after centuries of suffering and hardship. Fascists want to spare people all of the suffering that is coming. We want good people to live well, fruitful and comfortable so those good people can create more good people like themselves while we cut out the diseases that would bring the good people down with it. It's like when you have a diseased crop and you uproot the diseased crops to stop the disease from spreading to the healthy crops. The only alternative is to let the whole crop succumb to disease. A disease doesn't know it's a disease. It only wants to spread and doesn't know that it is killing its host.

Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm
aryanism.net/politics/national-socialism-and-fascism/

Elijah Murphy
Elijah Murphy

fpbp

Wyatt Hill
Wyatt Hill

Here's a well known analysis of Fascism written by famous Marxist Leon Trotsky.

You might be interested.

marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm

Isaac Brooks
Isaac Brooks

like asking an ancap to tell you what capitalism is. all you get back is vague ideals

James Rogers
James Rogers

That's interesting and i too know that the meaning of the words is quite important.
So while we're at it, i would like to know:
How can an inevitable organic state collapse?
How big are actual fascists on /pol/?

Jeremiah Thomas
Jeremiah Thomas

When I wanted to understand the goals of fascism I read Mussolini, why the fuck would I ask a liberal?

Dominic Mitchell
Dominic Mitchell

Every state inevitably collapses but organic states are the most resilient. Organic states in Europe lasted for over a millennium during the feudal era. These were states that formed in the centuries during the turmoil of the collapse of the Roman Empire. I can't tell you what an organic state would be like post liberalism. It could be like feudalism or maybe not. Organic states are about what forms naturally rather than trying to artificially create a utopia.

How big are actual fascists on /pol/?
Very few. Most people on /pol/ are liberals that happen to be racist and many are attracted to Not Socialism for materialist reasons. Not Socialists are fascists if they actually understand what Not Socialism is about.

Being a racist isn't enough to be a fascist. If you look at the interwar period everybody on every side were racists back then even the liberals and communists. Racism is natural and a display of any healthy society but it's not a central part of fascist ideology.

Jace Taylor
Jace Taylor

Peoples once lived in organic states during the feudal era
This is demonstrably false. It was a clutter of mercenaries and wealthy people warring for control. This is a result of a fascist's deep misunderstanding of history. This is why Hitler thought that Aryans were totes real and from India and shit, and that modern nazis deny the holocaust. Nice try, but you fail early on.

Easton Carter
Easton Carter

how is Feudal society 'organic'?
The majority of them were little more than shotty attempts to restore roman order initially and soon became completely artificial plantations for individuals with mercenaries.
wouldn't a natural society be more like hunter gatherers or Celtic tribes?

Joshua Richardson
Joshua Richardson

whats with the Fedual cucks all of a sudden

Juan Torres
Juan Torres

/pol/ and the rest of these idiots have trouble differentiating between fantasy and reality.

Henry Mitchell
Henry Mitchell

video games from reality if you want to get specific

James Kelly
James Kelly

Feudalism was organic because it was the only defence that survived against marauding armies. People that didn't organise properly had everything taken from them and were either killed or starved. The only things left standing after centuries of devastation were feudal estates. Those people that thought they'd restore the bloody republic were either killed or became part of the feudal structures.

Jacob Ross
Jacob Ross

rude as fuck.

Lucas Harris
Lucas Harris

Let's ignore anything that happened after that made feudal states obsolete. Nah, that didn't happen.

Oliver Gonzalez
Oliver Gonzalez

what in the fuck?
then how can you even claim to support organic societies when the feudal estate was completely supplanted and made obsolete for centuries now?

Zachary Jones
Zachary Jones

You got a downloadable version?

Jason Gutierrez
Jason Gutierrez

wget, faggot.

Sebastian Wilson
Sebastian Wilson

Feudalism was never made obsolete or supplanted. We are at the end stage of a dying feudal civilisation. Every institution has been gradually destroyed until now there is nothing left. We live in nothing but a vacuum now.

John Hall
John Hall

Feudalism was never made obsolete or supplanted.
It clearly was, you delusional fag.

We are at the end stage of a dying feudal civilisation.
Demonstrably false. Do you live in a feudal state? Are there any feudal lords around? No? That means no feudalism.

Every institution has been gradually destroyed until now there is nothing left. We live in nothing but a vacuum now.
No, you live in a modern liberal, capitalist society. You don't like it because you prefer fantasy and video games, but that is reality.

Ian Gutierrez
Ian Gutierrez

Feudalism was never made obsolete or supplanted. We are at the end stage of a dying feudal civilisation.
do you think you're in the mid 1800's?

Asher Brooks
Asher Brooks

Civilisations don't abruptly come to an end because some institutional reforms were made. They come to an end with total physical destruction. Our present state is the result of centuries of institutional reform from originally a feudal foundation.

Adrian Cooper
Adrian Cooper

Civilisations don't abruptly come to an end because some institutional reforms were made.
Yes, but a civilization can stop being a feudal society. Are you retarded?

Leo Adams
Leo Adams

I said feudal civilisation not feudal society. This civilisation whatever you want to call it Christian, European, Western or liberal civilisation is foundationally feudal.

Jaxon Thompson
Jaxon Thompson

I said feudal civilisation not feudal society
It's the same shit. Civilization now has nothing feudal about it. Kill yourself, retard.

Ethan Baker
Ethan Baker

Not since the Enlightenment

Kevin Hill
Kevin Hill

Feudalism describes an economic and political system both of which are completely wiped from modern civilization in the west calling it feudal civilization is as useful as calling the Achaemenid Persian empire a Tribal civilization

Ryan Parker
Ryan Parker

The Roman Republic wasn't made obsolete by Caesarism, Caesarism was just the next stage of decline of Roman civilisation. Republicanism and Caesarism were the same Roman civilisation even though they were institutionally very difference.

Jeremiah Myers
Jeremiah Myers

natural law
racism is healthy

Think of it like cropdusters vs crops.

Carter Flores
Carter Flores

No, but it stopped being a republic. You are trying to make a distinction without difference and playing a game of semantics. Kill yourself, shit for brains.

Brayden Murphy
Brayden Murphy

There is absolutely nothing "natural" or "organic" about feudalism. It arose as a result of material conditions (insecurity and depopulation) and was replaced by capitalism as a result of different material conditions.

Jeremiah Smith
Jeremiah Smith

It still ended the Republican period and the Republican organization and model of societal structure you doofus

Ryan Edwards
Ryan Edwards

The only way I could see your salvaging your argument is by making what defines a "Civilization" cultural instead of economic or political - but even then that still falls apart and only works in your particular example of Caesserism and Republicanism

Ryder Collins
Ryder Collins

I honestly though he was going to talk about lolberts for a bit. Still a good listen though. Does he talk about lolberts btw?

Robert Sanders
Robert Sanders

You are missing my point that this modern world comes from a feudal basis. You look at this civilisation on a larger scale you can see that the liberal era has only gone on for three centuries at best. That's a very small slice of time compared to the prior millennium of continuation. This civilisation has a millennium of feudalism and few centuries of Enlightenment driven reform. It would not be wrong to describe the thing as a whole as a feudal civilisation.

Nicholas Jenkins
Nicholas Jenkins

You are missing my point that this modern world comes from a feudal basis.
That wasn't your point. Your point was that we were living in a feudal world. This is demonstrably false, and now you're trying to move your position to something else.
If this thread has done anything it's to illustrate how fascists come to be. They have a deep misunderstnading of history, are ignorant of material factors, and like to live in their fantasies of their idealized past.

You look at this civilisation on a larger scale you can see that the liberal era has only gone on for three centuries at best.
That doesn't make it not a separate era.

hat's a very small slice of time compared to the prior millennium of continuation.
And?

This civilisation has a millennium of feudalism and few centuries of Enlightenment driven reform.
And yet in this short time more has changed than ever before. You're trying to make an argument from time, and it simply doesn't work. Our civilization is not a feudal civilization, not matter how hard you try to rationalize it.

It would not be wrong to describe the thing as a whole as a feudal civilisation.
It would be exactly wrong.

Nolan Wright
Nolan Wright

how could feudalism return with the modern industry and technology we have now? Give a summary of what this modern organic fuedal society can look like

Christopher Morales
Christopher Morales

Fascists are revolutionaries not reformists

Then why are they always appointed by existing political and economic powers? Why do they never have revolutions?

Christian Allen
Christian Allen

you are missing my point
I got your point alright, it's just that it's a stupid one.

the feudal era lasted longer than the early modern and modern eras, therefore it is all feudal
Utter retardation. Feudalism was dying long before the Enlightenment anyway, giving way to centralized states gradually in the 15th-17th centuries. It died for the same reasons it arose; because of changing material conditions making it obsolete in the face of such forces as absolutism, colonialism, and capitalism.

Your idiotic assertion that our society is "foundationally feudal" is based on the false assumption that anything still remains of medieval ideals and institutions. Civilizations and cultures are not like buildings, where each floor is the foundation for the one above it, but rather like a species which adapts to the world around it as conditions change. Calling feudalism foundational to Western civilization is like calling gills foundational to humanity.

Liam Robinson
Liam Robinson

because fascism is what capitalism does when it can no longer meanfully reform

Alexander Brooks
Alexander Brooks

Your problem is you can only view history through a materialist lens. Just because there is a material difference between the feudal era and the post Enlightenment era doesn't mean there is something fundamentally different that separates the two. Between now and the feudal era there has only been reform. I used the phrase feudal civilisation to help you Marxists understand but what I mean is Christendom. This Enlightenment era has been nothing but a gradual decay and hallowing out of Christendom through liberal reform. And when I say liberal reform I mean Satanic destruction.

Jack Price
Jack Price

Your problem is you can only view history through a materialist lens
And your problem is that you don't know history, full stop.

Adam Scott
Adam Scott

Your problem is you can only view history through a materialist lens.
Is this why we aren't infected with ridiculous magical thinking like you?

Satanic destruction.
wew lad, you should talk to Satan-Chan. According to her, it's Christianity that is the evil Jew-puppet religion and Satanism is for le aryans

Noah Nguyen
Noah Nguyen

Ok, so I'm really confused. Your thoughts don't seem to make any sort of logical sense.

Please try to explain what you mean. Christendom and feudalism really seem like different things. Would you care to elaborate on what you view as Christendom, how it relates to feudalism, and what constitutes "Satanic destruction?" I don't see the connections.

Gavin Martinez
Gavin Martinez

I've heard fascists describe fascism
It's stupid and still capitalism
Kys

Liam Price
Liam Price

…I appreciate the American """"""""""""""Revolution"""""""""""""" a little bit more now.

Nicholas Rivera
Nicholas Rivera

You want to talk about magical thinking? I'm not the one that thinks 21st century Germany and 9th century of the same region aren't the same civilisation because airplanes.
Christiandom is the peoples that constitute the bulwark of Christian Europe from the orthodox, Orthodox, Roman Catholics and Protestants. Christianity is the common spiritual current from the early feudal era to today. Satanic destruction is anything that does the work of Satan by destroying everything wholesome and holy.

Juan Richardson
Juan Richardson

OP is not a fascist, he's a LARPing feudalist.

Camden Flores
Camden Flores

I'm not the one that thinks 21st century Germany and 9th century of the same region aren't the same civilisation because airplanes.
Germany wasn't even united then, you stupid idiot. It literally is nothing like it used to be.

Adrian Gutierrez
Adrian Gutierrez

I'm not a feudalist. I am just compelled to defend it because it was good. I defend the Roman republic too it doesn't mean I'm a republican.

Jace Morgan
Jace Morgan

21st century Germany and 9th century of the same region aren't the same civilisation because airplanes.
They fucking aren't Germany wasn't even a thing back then it was a bunch of decentralized states who vaguely recognized each other through language but otherwise considered themselves very different.
Telling a Bavarian he is the same as a fucking Saxon in the 9th century

Austin Gutierrez
Austin Gutierrez

Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe, influenced by national syndicalism. Fascism originated in Italy during World War I and spread to other European countries. Fascism opposes liberalism, Marxism and anarchism and is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.

Turner, Henry Ashby, Reappraisals of Fascism. New Viewpoints, 1975. p. 162. States fascism's "goals of radical and authoritarian nationalism".

Larsen, Stein Ugelvik, Bernt Hagtvet and Jan Petter Myklebust, Who were the Fascists: Social Roots of European Fascism, p. 424, "organized form of integrative radical nationalist authoritarianism"

Once we again, we are blessed by the pseudo-eds of /pol/.

OP is just a feudalist in disguise

Jackson Baker
Jackson Baker

Do you think I'm really that ignorant? I know about erosion of regionalism and events like Bismarck's unification of Germany. I don't view them as good things.

Mason Stewart
Mason Stewart

Do you think I'm really that ignorant?
No, we know you to be because you keep displaying your ignorance in the most obvious of ways.

I know about erosion of regionalism and events like Bismarck's unification of Germany. I don't view them as good things.
I don't care what you view them as, your ignorance on every matter that you speak of just shows us what we already knew to be true, that fascists are ignoramuses of the highest degree and hold delusions to be the basis for socio-economic organization. Kill yourself, guy.

James Barnes
James Barnes

Are there other aspects of feudalism and fascism which you find appealing, or are you mostly concerned with maintenance of holiness and grace? If the latter, I think there are much better ways to go about it.

Christopher Davis
Christopher Davis

I'm not a feudalist. I am just compelled to defend it because it was good. I defend the Roman republic too it doesn't mean I'm a republican.
Historical developments are neither bad or good, it's your arbitrary distinction of an "organic society" that's nonsensical.

Isaac Richardson
Isaac Richardson

I'm a radical authoritarian nationalist that opposes liberalism, Marxism and anarchism. Fascism is about more than that. Fascism is an eternal spirit that predates 20th century nationalism even though it didn't exist in name until the 20th century. It predates 18th century nationalism. It predates feudalism and Christianity. It began in theory with Plato but predates ancient Greece.

Luke Cruz
Luke Cruz

I'm making meaningless shit up: The Post
Kill yourself. God doesn't real, and you're a stupid faggot.

Camden Martin
Camden Martin

Virtue, honour and martyrdom. I am fallen and a damaged and sinful man. My ancestors were much better men than me. I won't piss on the graves of fifty generations of my ancestors by saying they lived wrong. I will absolutely defend their way of life.

Joshua Rogers
Joshua Rogers

the eternal spirit

Julian Carter
Julian Carter

I'm prepared to defend people I don't and can't know, including rapists, madmen, whores, torturers, geeks, etc.
This is your brain on /pol/

Chase Wood
Chase Wood

Virtue, honour and martyrdom. I am fallen and a damaged and sinful man. My ancestors were much better men than me. I won't piss on the graves of fifty generations of my ancestors by saying they lived wrong. I will absolutely defend their way of life.

Eli Jackson
Eli Jackson

Why does any of that honestly matter? Fuck our ancestors, live for the present and do what you want, they're dead.

Not being rhetorical or ironic here, either.

Dominic Baker
Dominic Baker

I can give you that fascism has it's roots in The Republic, but Platonic idealism is shit.

Camden Wood
Camden Wood

I will absolutely defend their way of life.
He used internet to post this

Liam Diaz
Liam Diaz

Thanks. I can respect that line of thinking, even if I think it is flawed.

I don't know if we actually disagree on so much, though my views are not representative of the rest of this board. I believe at all points of history, there have been righteous and sinful men (in a sense), and the societies that existed were born out of the ensuing struggle. I don't expect anyone to piss on the graves of their ancestors, or anyone else for that matter, but I believe it is our obligation to live as the best men we can be. That does not mean we have to live as our ancestors lived, as many of those who I would honor most died specifically so we wouldn't have to. Saying that they lived wrong is not the same as saying that they made the best of a bad situation, and maybe we can do better.

Tyler Young
Tyler Young

I don't expect anyone to piss on the graves of their ancestors
I would have no problems with literally pissing on the grave of my parents, tbh, but that's highly impractical when you have a toilet at home.

Caleb Flores
Caleb Flores

Virtue, honour and martyrdom.
Fedora as fuck, m8.

I am fallen and a damaged and sinful man.
You'e a gigantic faggot.

My ancestors were much better men than me.
I would say that your ancestors were likely uneducated, backwards, and savage, but you've clearly proven that you're far more retarded than they could ever hope to be.

won't piss on the graves of fifty generations of my ancestors by saying they lived wrong.
Best start denouncing science and medicine, as well as other things, like the internet. Can't be saying people in the past were ever wrong, can we?

I will absolutely defend their way of life.
They're dead. No need to defend something that no longer exists, you stupid faggot.

Josiah Robinson
Josiah Robinson

implying the drive to not piss on a grave isn't a spook
I would not only piss on my parent's graves, I would do so gladly and without reservation. The world is my toilet.

Aiden Miller
Aiden Miller

Modern men do a lot of pissing on graves and condemning one's ancestors. Take a step back for a minute a contemplate if you are really in such a righteous position to be doing that.

We're a decadent and loathesome people and God would be right to destroy us like Sodom and Gomorrah. We're a scourge on ourselves and anything wholesome. We will be judged by both God and our descendent and if either judge as we have judged there will be no mercy for us.

Caleb Perez
Caleb Perez

Your fifty generations of ancestors all lived differently from each other, and they're all fucking dead.

Carter Lewis
Carter Lewis

Modern men do a lot of pissing on graves and condemning one's ancestors. Take a step back for a minute a contemplate if you are really in such a righteous position to be doing that.
I don't need to be righteous. I simply need to recognize that their way of life is incompatible with the modern world and a lot of their ideas are demonstrably wrong.

We're a decadent and loathesome people and God
No, that's just you, and God doesn't real. If he's real, he'd stop you from getting BTFO on the internet, but obviously he won't, because even if he is real, this shows that he's just a gigantic faggot like you.

We're a scourge on ourselves and anything wholesome. We will be judged by both God and our descendent and if either judge as we have judged there will be no mercy for us.
I will judge your tight virgin butthole with my cock and you will see the light because I will open you so wide, you'll be able to see straight to your brain.

Noah Young
Noah Young

Oh, yeah?! Well I'd dig them out, cut holes in their fetid bodies, put my wiener in and piss directly into the carcasses.

Kayden Ramirez
Kayden Ramirez

Take a step back for a minute a contemplate if you are really in such a righteous position to be doing that.
Well, to begin with, I actually exists as opposed to them, so I'm in fact in the position to do it.

God would be right to destroy us
We'd be right to destroy God if he existed.

Thomas Fisher
Thomas Fisher

I would do this, but it's simply inconvenient. You're just a pervert, user.

Camden Taylor
Camden Taylor

God

God is dead, faggot.

muh decadence

Yes, I'm sure you're local DfP feed on facebook has provided you with some classic fashy goy tools to combat the eternal Jew and save DA WEST from tha ESS JAY DOUBLE YOUS

Ethan Kelly
Ethan Kelly

pissing off when it's time to dirty your hands
liberalism, liberalism everywhere

Blake Brown
Blake Brown

Fascism is the belief that society is to be organised by natural law in order to create an organic state. That organic state will manifest differently depending on culture and religion of a people. Organic states are inevitable. Peoples once lived in organic states during the feudal era but all those institutions have since been destroyed which leaves us now the revolutionary option. Fascists are revolutionaries not reformists and fascists are spiritualists not materialists.
So, you're spooked retards, basically. Thanks, fam, but we already knew.

Henry Perry
Henry Perry

Now like liberals it's common for communists to call anything they don't like fascist.
Certainly can't argue that the word is overused, but on what basis are people labeled as fascists? Usually it's their racist or authoritarian ideals, so what seperates a genuine fascist from just a racist who worships Hitler and wants trump to rule the USA with an iron fist?

Organic states
What do you mean by this specifically? Do you mean some sort of natural structure of a 'state', one that is almost predetermined through genetics etc etc?

Fascists are revolutionaries not reformists
You will have to explain your use of revolution here, as Marxists use it in a socioeconomic way to describe a complete change in the ownership and relations to the means of production. We haven't seen that in Nazi Germany or Spain, with fascism still operating within the economic structure of capitalism. Fascism to us changes aspects of social thinking, but is essentially just one of several types of capitalist society along with neo-liberalism. Is this because it's just a means to an organic state?

So to come full circle we label your 'revolutionary' ideas as 'reactionary', since you admit that you think these things in response to the weeds that need destroying. You haven't got an ideology based on material concepts, but "spiritual" ones, thoughts and feelings just like your average /pol/ user. So a label of "fascist" is at least somewhat related, as both you and any other /pol/ user don't have anything in their heads but minor reform of the current socioeconomic system based on "spiritual" (read: spook) ideals rather than revolutionary change based on materialist thinking.

Angel Rivera
Angel Rivera

I don't need to be righteous. I simply need to recognize that their way of life is incompatible with the modern world and a lot of their ideas are demonstrably wrong.
In what ways were the ideas of your presumably feudal ancestors demonstrably wrong? Their ideas were right enough for you to now exist.

It's funny how you all accuse me of LARPing as a feudalist for not reacting with horror at the feudal way of life. I'm not even a feudalist. I'm a contemporary fascist. I don't want to restore anything or go back to some earlier point in time however long or early ago.

There's nothing left to save in this modern civilisation. The remnants of what's left need to be destroyed.including what little good there is left. When this whole thing is brought down we can build a new order.

Gavin Rivera
Gavin Rivera

Reminder this feudal-cuck is the same IQ fag that shitposted for a week

Ethan King
Ethan King

Modern men do a lot of pissing on graves and condemning one's ancestors. Take a step back for a minute a contemplate if you are really in such a righteous position to be doing that.
Roots are for vegetables. You owe nothing to dead men.

We're a decadent and loathesome people
I'm liking the LARPy terminology. How exactly are we any more "decadent and loathesome" than any generation before us? If anything, we eek out a more austere, temperate existence because of the continuing global financial troubles.

God would be right to destroy us like Sodom and Gomorrah
Good thing he doesn't exist, then.

We're a scourge on ourselves and anything wholesome.
I'd agree that we're a scourge on ourselves, but it's because of attitudes like this that blame the problems of our condition on mystical, esoteric bullshit rather than real, material conditions and systems.

We will be judged by both God and our descendent and if either judge as we have judged there will be no mercy for us.
Our decedents, if the human race lasts long enough for us to have "decedents" will see us as the few sane men among denialist liberals and LARPing idiots like you.

William Richardson
William Richardson

In what ways were the ideas of your presumably feudal ancestors demonstrably wrong?
Let's start with their adherence to monarchic systems of government, of lack of understanding of the natural world, and of basically all of science and mathematics come after them. Hell, even simple things like ethics have evolved. Like it or not, they were wrong about a lot of things.

Luis Hill
Luis Hill

PLEASE tell me how you want your facist neofuedal society to be organized. I am legitimately interested. Please.

Tell me how it will function, what will the economy be like? government? society? etc.

please tell me

Liam Long
Liam Long

What do you mean by "natural law" and "organic state?"

And why is a feudal society somehow more "organic" and closer to the fascist ideal than say, a tribal one? /pol/ used to love Varg Vikernes. Pre-Roman European society and culture was based compared to feudalism. And couldn't you say all of slave and feudal society were just a part of decomposing tribal civilization?

As a fascist, how is feudalism desirable if it was historically very anti-nationalistic? Feudal lords were at war all the time with people who shared their race and culture. Just look at the HRE for example. Nationalism didn't exist at all until the rise of absolute monarchy and the merchant class.

And how do you reconcile the fact that fascist movements have generally been staunchly anti-monarchist? Look at Hitler and Salazar.

Ayden Davis
Ayden Davis

this fag unironically thinks that fascism = pre French Revolution traditionalism
he doesn't even know about Alternative Modernity

Have you even read Mussolini?

Ryder Mitchell
Ryder Mitchell

In what ways were the ideas of your presumably feudal ancestors demonstrably wrong?
Oh, just nearly everything. Ever taken a peak at medieval medicine?

Their ideas were right enough for you to now exist.
If the only measure of the success of a system is "people were able to reproduce", then liberal capitalism has been a success, because people are still popping out babies.

It's funny how you all accuse me of LARPing as a feudalist for not reacting with horror at the feudal way of life.
It's more because you're glorifying that old, debunked system and talk like you're trying to emulate late 19th century literature.

There's nothing left to save in this modern civilisation.
Personally, I'm a fan of running water, reliable roads, refrigeration, automobiles and mass transit, the internet, home appliances like washing machines and electrical ovens, an efficient and sanitary sewer system, modern medicine…

Oliver Lee
Oliver Lee

Certainly can't argue that the word is overused, but on what basis are people labeled as fascists? Usually it's their racist or authoritarian ideals, so what seperates a genuine fascist from just a racist who worships Hitler and wants trump to rule the USA with an iron fist?
Most racists are liberals. I'm a racist too just not a liberal. Anyone that supports Trump is a liberal. There is nothing left to reform. America is a nation in its death throes and trying to fix it will accomplish nothing. Reform is a waste of time and effort. America is flooded with racial aliens and nothing can save that nation except extreme violence.

What do you mean by this specifically? Do you mean some sort of natural structure of a 'state', one that is almost predetermined through genetics etc etc?
When I say organic states I am referring to states that form according to the natural environment these states rule. Rather than trying to mold the people artificially to fit with ideology that state should be molded to the people and the circumstances of their environment. The state should fit the people and not that the people should fit the state.

You will have to explain your use of revolution here, as Marxists use it in a socioeconomic way to describe a complete change in the ownership and relations to the means of production. We haven't seen that in Nazi Germany or Spain, with fascism still operating within the economic structure of capitalism. Fascism to us changes aspects of social thinking, but is essentially just one of several types of capitalist society along with neo-liberalism. Is this because it's just a means to an organic state?
When I say revolution I mean total dissolution of the current state and the creation of a new state.

So to come full circle we label your 'revolutionary' ideas as 'reactionary', since you admit that you think these things in response to the weeds that need destroying. You haven't got an ideology based on material concepts, but "spiritual" ones, thoughts and feelings just like your average /pol/ user. So a label of "fascist" is at least somewhat related, as both you and any other /pol/ user don't have anything in their heads but minor reform of the current socioeconomic system based on "spiritual" (read: spook) ideals rather than revolutionary change based on materialist thinking.
I'm not a reactionary since I don't want to restore anything. Reactionaries want to go back in time and undo liberal reform. I don't want to do that. Materialism is a creation of the Enlightenment. There is more important things in life than how your cellphones are produced. I don't care about material goods and I'm not willing to die for what method of production my soap will be produced with.

Nolan Mitchell
Nolan Mitchell

somebody is actually advocating for feudalism

This thread needs more guillotine. To make things worse being a neo-feudalist is not even close to fascism. Fascism based on embracing the inherent irrationality of the human animal within the framework of Nietzchian social Darwinism.

humans are naturally irrational
to truly be human we must act irrationally
emotion is an excellent way to mobilize political zeal
nationalism inspires political emotion to a specific cause and community
a strong state and leader focuses this emotional energy into political strength and power
the state is the expression of this emotional energy and the people's spiritual will so it must be all pervasive
the world is based on might makes right and survival of the fittest
therefore the state must be militarized and can't hesitate to destroy any potential rivals, eat or be eaten

Read Mussolini.

Easton Wilson
Easton Wilson

PLEASE tell me how you want your facist neofuedal society to be organized. I am legitimately interested. Please.
Tell me how it will function, what will the economy be like? government? society? etc.
Hitler had the luxury of working with a system that still had some intact institutions. Families were largely functional, Christianity was strong, most people lived traditionally and not every level of the state was hostile toward NSDAP. Now modern Germany as a whole is like Weimar Berlin a hundred fold and flooded with hostile racial aliens. If someone tried to do what Hitler did in the modern day he would be arrested and never see the light of day. When Hitler was arrested and accused of treason his judge was sympathetic and gave him only a small amount of prison time.

The current situation requires much more than Hitler. We will have to martyr ourselves and do what Hitler wouldn't do. I'm not going to live long enough to see the dictatorship that follows.

Ayden Cruz
Ayden Cruz

America is flooded with [type of people] and nothing can save that [state] except extreme violence.
The state should be molded to the people (except when there are [type of people]).
The state should fit the people and not people fit the state (except in the cases where we again have to force a state (albeit different) on [type of people] because lol muh spirit, and otherwise the state wouldn't fit).

L O L

Charles James
Charles James

I've only read the doctrine of fascism, what else should I read?

Adrian Parker
Adrian Parker

You are not a fascist your are just an alienated individual living in modern neoliberal globalized capitalism. The struggles of old are over with and fascism is as dead as 20th century communism is in this new era. As globalization breaks down identities there is an emerging new nationalism and new fascism as people hopelessly try to hold on to some aspect of their identity in a globalised world.

In the same way modern day communists tend to look back at the 20th century and even earlier as the serious struggles of old still existed. They look back at national liberation movements when people fought against colonization and so on when there was a serious struggle in the left and it wasn't just identity politics. But that old left is as dead as the old right wing.

Dominic Flores
Dominic Flores

Pre-Roman European society and culture was based compared to feudalism
How exactly was fealty under a jarl better than fealty under a lord?

Jeremiah Lewis
Jeremiah Lewis

That's funny coming from the leader of the weakest fascist state that got steamrolled by almost anyone who could lift a rifle.

Jaxon Nelson
Jaxon Nelson

"Fascism, Communism, and Democracy", it's a huge collection of liberal, fascist, and communist works that provides a good outline of the theoretical foundations of each ideology, complete with some analysis to go with it. There's also a book that's just called "Fascism" which is a really great analysis of fascist ideology and political practice. Unfortunately I don't know the authors of either.

Henry Fisher
Henry Fisher

Jarls are feudal. It's just the Norse word for "Earl."

Jack Nguyen
Jack Nguyen

If you can build a functional state to serve and accommodate traitors then have at it. It's better to just purge the traitors. There's no room for accommodation for undesirables. The state should exist for one thing only and that's for the good people only.

Benjamin Kelly
Benjamin Kelly

"Jarl" originally indicated a tribal leader. The term was incorporated into Nordic feudalism.

Michael White
Michael White

the state should fit the people
except for people that I don't like
those people that the state doesn't fit because I don't like them are traitors because i said so and should be killed

Leo Miller
Leo Miller

there's no room for accommodation for undesirables
Apparently there was room.
good people
Fucking pseudo-Platonians…

Brody Morgan
Brody Morgan

That's right and the same for killers and rapists. A state that serves these kinds of people doesn't deserve to exist. Put them to death and let God judge them.

Thomas Kelly
Thomas Kelly

But if you kill the killers then…you're gonna have to kill yourself for killing DDD :

Ethan Reyes
Ethan Reyes

ethnic groups I don't like are the same thing as killers are rapists
Also, that's pretty rich coming from a guy who's ideological lineage comes primarily from American prison gangs.

Robert Perry
Robert Perry

Everyone today is a degenerate or criminal in some way. You said you were yourself. You'll have to kill everyone

Joseph Davis
Joseph Davis

You're missing the point that not everyone deserves accommodation for simply existing. There's no place for people that are no good.Sodomites aren't going to be running amok and calling for Sodomite weddings.

Sebastian Cox
Sebastian Cox

You're gonna provoke the graphs right out of him like that.

Robert Gutierrez
Robert Gutierrez

You're missing the point that I don't actually care.

Adrian Rivera
Adrian Rivera

Fascism=/=National Socialism.

If your going to write about Fascism, keep Hitler (someone who was not a fascist, but for whatever reason is always called one) out of it.

For anyone who thinks Hitler was a Fascist
aryanism.net/politics/national-socialism-and-fascism/

Jace Wilson
Jace Wilson

NSDAP =/= Nation­al Socialism either
You must be thinking of Asser.

Gavin Lopez
Gavin Lopez

aryansim

Hunter Lewis
Hunter Lewis

Do you have a source for that? I can't find anything that says the term was used before the Migration Period.

aryanism.net
Best Nazis tbh. This isn't shilled on /pol/ nearly as much as it should. Imagine if they all turned into ultra-spiritual antiracist environmentalist vegans.

Brayden Rodriguez
Brayden Rodriguez

I never said I wanted to put every degenerate to death and that would include myself too. There would have to be punishment for moral crimes but we can't just retroactively put every person to death that ever committed a moral crime in their life.

A lot of people in this modern world are severely damaged people that will be broken for the rest of their lives in some way. It's the upcoming generations that will have the chance of wholesome lives.

Ryan Sanchez
Ryan Sanchez

How are you going to determine who is good? It's not like it's hard to lie, or for the killers to define whatever you think is evil as good, now or later. Also, would all the people who performed the task have to ritual suicide afterwards? It's difficult to see how they could still be considered good after committing genocide/mass murder.

How do you deal with people who could be reformed? Wouldn't killing them instead of giving them the opportunity for forgiveness and reconciliation be indefensible (ESPECIALLY if you're Christian)?

How are you going to deal with the evil elements which you'll miss? You can't expect to have a stable society if you rely upon everyone acting "good." Are you REALLY sure you have to kill or deport everyone who you don't like/disagrees with you?

I am concerned that even if you managed to implement this it would eventually be overtaken by power hungry sociopaths who are good at hiding their nature, much like our current society, but with far fewer limitations on what they could do.

Hail Satan. Get hype for species genocide.

Jayden Jones
Jayden Jones

I'm a revolutionary so there's going to be political enemies initially put to death like any other revolution. Wholesale eradication of the power structure and highly influential people that have demonstrated themselves enemies and their estates confiscated by the state so there's nothing for them to pass onto their children.

After the initial cleanse not many crimes will carry the death penalty. It will be like any historical state and in accordance with God's law.

Ryder James
Ryder James

So then you don't recommend broad purges, and instead only want to target people with particular influence who have done such great damage to the cause that they are effectively too dargerous to keep alive? That doesn't sound like it could reasonably include the "aliens" you previously mentioned. How liberal with the killing are you really expecting to be?

Also, I doubt you will be able to operate it as a historical state as I understand at least because of the technological changes which have occured. God's law also seems pretty vague TBH. Are you going to follow all of Leviticus, or are you going to only take the really basic concepts like Matthew 22:35-40?

Logan Sanchez
Logan Sanchez

let a tumor tell you what oncology is

Camden Diaz
Camden Diaz

That's a lotta ideology you got there, my man.

Fascism is the belief that society is to be organised by natural law in order to create an organic state.

What is "natural law"? What is an "organic state"?

That organic state will manifest differently depending on culture and religion of a people.

What is the "culture" of a people?

Peoples once lived in organic states during the feudal era

No.

All the diseases that infect nations will have to be purged.

What "diseases" are you talking about?

We want good people to live well, fruitful and comfortable

Who are these "good people"?

Tyler Taylor
Tyler Taylor

natural law
this says literally nothing
organic state
this says even less
Peoples once lived in organic states during the feudal era
"Holy fuck don't touch me you fucking anglo-saxon scum, I have to visit my relatives who run France and Italy" t. Norman
Fascists are revolutionaries not reformists and fascists are spiritualists not materialists.
Then why has literally all fascist takeovers been through being granted power by existing capitalist elites? And then continuing to serve the interest of said capitalist elite? Won't even comment on the last meme part.
All the diseases that infect nations will have to be purged.
oh wow the edge
The organic state is inevitable since we are at the end stages of a dying civilisation that deserves its ending and cannot be saved.
t. i have no read Spengler but pretend i have
long edgy rant he wrote in recess

Aiden King
Aiden King

Imagine if they all turned into ultra-spiritual antiracist environmentalist vegans
some of us already are

Bentley Rivera
Bentley Rivera

forgive the name

Tyler James
Tyler James

Reform is a waste of time and effort.
You are either for reform of capitalism just like other 'liberal racists' or for a regression into a feudal economy (which I don't think you are since you just want that pure feudal spiritualistic way of life rather than that pure vassalage to a lord).

You are the same as a spooked /pol/ liberal who thinks killing niggers and Jews is revolutionary change in society; it's all idealist.

When I say organic states I am referring to states that form according to the natural environment these states rule. Rather than trying to mold the people artificially to fit with ideology that state should be molded to the people and the circumstances of their environment. The state should fit the people and not that the people should fit the state.
The environment of a particular state is a legacy of all previous states that have existed before it. Human history does not stop and start (in general) but exists as a continued line towards present society. Even before you say something like the dark ages or the fall of Rome, these are examples of new forms of society supplanting old ones, and represent growth and change in material ways. These material ways (different classes relations to production) affect social changes.

Social changes are not revolutionary changes to the history of mankind in the same way that economic ones are, since the social changes are a direct result of the economic ones first.

So your "organic state" is based on the material changes that have gone before it, just as capitalism developed 'naturally' from feudalism. To hypothetically destroy everything including science, technology, modern morals, and thought would mean a return to the tribal system, with a 'natural' and eventual progression towards capitalism. To "start again" without eliminating these things would mean capitalism would never really leave, since all you are forcing is people to change their spiritual ideals rather than the concrete structure of society.

Traditional values were a product of their material conditions, they didn't come out of thin air. Modern 'degenerate' values are also a product of their material conditions, and an attempt to change these values based on ideals is futile, as the conditions still exist to create them. The material conditions of society are not how full of Jews or black people they are, but are how you relate to production. Which class you fit into, and how these classes work together has bearing on the world moreso than ideas about pride and tradition.

The capitalist world you exist in is an 'organic state', and forcing traditionalist values is swimming against the stream unless you change the material conditions, too.

When I say revolution I mean total dissolution of the current state and the creation of a new state.
So second verse same as the first? All you want to change is values; nothing concrete. Degenerate values which exist because of the development of society and the material conditions of production and exchange, and you want to keep that structure in place. You are the same as any other /pol/ user. You aren't changing anything but feelings.

I'm not a reactionary since I don't want to restore anything.
You think it's revolutionary change, but it really isn't. The economic structure of production and exchange enforces social values, but all you want to change are those values. You are a reactionary for being against real revolutionary change to the entirety of capitalist society.

Cameron Perez
Cameron Perez

OP, although it's a very neatly written thing, it does not address what exactly constitutes fascism in terms of policies. You know, economy, system of ruling country, social conservatism vs social liberalism and such.

The organic state is inevitable since we are at the end stages of a dying civilisation that deserves its ending and cannot be saved. Fascists could do nothing and eventually organic states will form after centuries of suffering and hardship. Fascists want to spare people all of the suffering that is coming. We want good people to live well, fruitful and comfortable so those good people can create more good people like themselves while we cut out the diseases that would bring the good people down with it. It's like when you have a diseased crop and you uproot the diseased crops to stop the disease from spreading to the healthy crops. The only alternative is to let the whole crop succumb to disease. A disease doesn't know it's a disease. It only wants to spread and doesn't know that it is killing its host.
Interesting, it's a Spenglerian influence, correct? It also explains why most socialists and communists disagree with fascism.

Alexander Smith
Alexander Smith

It would depend on the situation post revolution and how much disorder there is whether the death penalty will be expanded. If there's widespread looting for example the death penalty will be expanded to cover looting. Same for any other crimes that cause disorder. It's situational. Counter revolutionaries will be put to death.

Aliens don't have to be exterminated. They'll be repatriated for the most part along with miscegenators to either their home countries or anywhere in the world they can be transported to to get them out. Aliens that riot, loot, steal, kill or cause other serious crimes or disorders will be put to death between the period of revolution and the repatriation phase. Otherwise they won't be harmed.

I didn't say it would be a historical state. I meant the death penalties dealt will have historical precedent. There won't be any Pol Pot style purges of retroactively hunting down degenerates. People are going to have the opportunity to change their ways and even then moral crimes won't come with the death penalty. The exception being things like Sodomy which God commands they be put to death.

There's no going back to an agrarian society. The society will be fully modern and will have to be capable of defence and projecting force against modern militaries. Fascist states have been targetted for destruction by international forces. We need to be prepared to war the entire world if need be.

Hunter Ward
Hunter Ward

There's no going back to an agrarian society. The society will be fully modern
Capitalism then. So no revolutionary change to society; just idealist values that harken back to a rose tinted and pinhole view of history.

Why would the private owners of production allow your social reforms to take place? From your vague points it sounds like they might not agree with your interests.

Mason Roberts
Mason Roberts

Fascist states have been targetted for destruction by international forces.
Which fascist states have been targeted or destroyed by international forces?

Elijah Turner
Elijah Turner

I don't know anything about economics or care about it. Any capitalists that are in the way are counter revolutionaries and will be treated as such.
Italy, Germany, Japan, Romania, Croatia and several other Axis powers that were fascistic. Because fascist states are a target for destruction we can't just leave other nations alone and hope they leave us alone. We have to preemptively turn other nations fascist and eventually turn every nation in the world fascist. Other nationalists believe they can pursue nationalist reform and that other states will respect their sovereignty and leave them alone. A fascist understands that is not the case and understands that liberal and communist states will seek the total destruction of fascist states. It's no coincidence that liberals and communists make common alliance when it comes to waging aggression on fascist states. We seek their total destruction as they will seek ours.

Easton Torres
Easton Torres

start war with literally the entire world because m-muh lebensraum and muh jews
get your ass kicked
"omg germany alone in poor cruel world, such persecution and unfairness. if only the world was just, what a dark poetic fate for misunderstood fascists"

Blake Kelly
Blake Kelly

You did not tell anything new.

Feels > Reals

Gavin Gomez
Gavin Gomez

Ok, so I may be reading too far into this. You seem to be after a society which satisfies a specific set of personal requirements, rather than invested in its particular form. I have considered the world you are describing as one of the better ideals of the alt-right (which I still don't agree with). The concept is to join people of similar mind/race/(other phenotypic property) together in different states so that the conflict which originates from trying to compromise on beliefs and morals in a single nation doesn't exist or is considerably diminished. In order to do so you have to divide them, which is the reason for repatriation, and any who resisted would be impossible to otherwise handle (though you could forcibly exile them).

Would you have a problem with a communist state as long as all of the people there are communists anyway and they didn't otherwise harrass you? What qualifies something for statehood in your ideal world? If it has to be fascist you have to explain what that means.

There were a few issues I couldn't figure out last time I tried thinking about this concept. The major one is that war between the states, even if they are all fascist, is a serious concern and would result in the destruction of a considerable number of the factions. You may still consider it worth it if you're willing to gamble.

Further technological advances will also likely destabilize the system, but that is hardly unique to this idea.

Hudson Ross
Hudson Ross

People are going to have the opportunity to change their ways and even then moral crimes won't come with the death penalty. The exception being things like Sodomy which God commands they be put to death.

Robert Ortiz
Robert Ortiz

I don't know anything about economics or care about it.

The average fascist, lads.

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