Timed Hits in RPGs

Hey Holla Forums, I need to talk game mechanics with you guys, or rather a specific game mechanic.

I want to talk about "timed hits" which occurs in RPGs sometimes.

Now, I like JRPGs and other turn-based RPGs, but I think that completely turn based combat can get a little dull. So that's why I'm working on an RPG and I want to implement a "timed hits" system to spice up the combat a bit. I originally got this inspiration from Mario RPG, but I know of a few other games (i.e. Stick of Truth) that have a system like it.

Basically I want to hear some opinions on the best way to implement this feature, especially when it comes to cues.

As a player, do you prefer:

Or a combination of both? Thanks in advance for any feedback.

This game has the best timed hits mechanic

By audio, do you mean feedback when you get it right, or audio to cue the player when to hit?

I generally prefer the visual or animation ones. With the Shadow Hearts series, you have the visual cue (Judgment Ring appearing on screen) and animation (or rather, lack of animation; the rest of the screen freezes so the player can focus on the Judgment Ring), and the audio being a mix of a soft to loud noise as the indicator moves around the ring, growing louder as it reaches the start/end point, and feedback sounds for success/failure to hit the target points. In the later games, there's also a difference in sound and animation for if you hit the targets on the ring normally (ring slices in half when finished) or if you manage to hit the strike areas (ring shatters).

Footage related (SH1 bonus boss).

I had meant audio to cue the player when to hit, like in Stick of Truth when a glimmer appears a sound effect plays.

Thank you for the example, I will take that into consideration. I had initially planned on some visual cue for the player but nothing that huge as the one in your video.

Visual animation usually works best. I always liked the way superstar saga did it, with a power downgrade for slowing down the imput window and visually interesting ways the attack went wrong.

Visual. Definitely visual. As in, have some sort of meter on screen.

Viual cues, like the system in Legend of Dragoon, allow the player to have a little time and see when they're supposed to do the timed hit. Animation queues CAN work, but then you run into the problem of a player thinking, "Is this part of the animation the timed hit or is it just naturally slower? Do I hit it at the wind-up or at the impact?" etc. If you're going to go the animation route, be sure to give the player some feedback on if he was too slow or too fast; that helps alleviate the confusion.

Audio queues should only be used in addition to one of the above systems, it should never be the entire system. Not only does that prevent people with deafness or other hearing impediments from enjoying the game as much, it also means that anyone playing in a situation where they have to be quiet (say, late at night when everyone is asleep, or when someone nearby is on an important phone call, etc.) might be unable to hear the cues.

tl;dr Visual queues are most clear. If you use animation queues, include some method of feedback if the player was too slow or fast. Audio queues re great in addition to visual or animation queues, but shit on their own.

thank you, this is very helpful

The Shadow Hearts games also have a variety of status effects, ring customizations (in SH:C and FtNW) and equips that impact ability to hit the ring; with status effects theres no benefit to leaving stuff like reverse or random ring on, but ring types or equip you choose to put on the characters yourself generally have a benefit to using, usually in the form of providing higher effect while making it harder to hit the ring, further encouraging better hand/eye coordination.

Embed related if you want an idea of how combat further developed with the series. Skip to about 34 minutes

Forgot my embed.

Just make sure you're not substituting timed hits for actual strategy. People play turn based games for strategy, not to play DDR.

Visual and audio, with primary focus being on visual. Audio cues can be a very quick and small 'ping', or 'ting' type of sound to indicate success and/or failure. The audio, supplemented with the visuals, will help cement in the players mind the correct timing of things. But visual is definitely the king here. Nothing else beats it for ease of usability and intuitiveness.

Even asking about animation cue is laughable. It's a very nice bonus, but without the other two it's complete dogshit for conveying necessary information, as touched upon.

An RPG is a test of a character's skill, not yours. Timed hits are fine, but it should be a skill that is unlocked, not something you can do from lvl 1.

Why not all of them (putting aside support for deaf people but you could be a cool guy and make something to toggle in the options that slightly modifies the game)? Do you already have concept of what your setting and enemies should be in mind?

Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga has the best use of cues I've ever seen but that's sort of it's own thing. The best part was how mid-battle dialogue had cues as well. Something like that but more imaginitive and less color-coded sounds rad.

I never understood the timed hits in VS. You were supposed to do it but then you were punished for it because it increased your chance to miss or something? It's been ages since I played it but like I did I didn't grok it at the time.


OP, you should seriously use both visual and audio cues. A little halo around the character at the right time and a quick "power up" sound that ends in a satisfying "POP!" if the timed hit lands correctly is just fucking ace.

Animation. Visual cues are a little intrusive for my taste, but I don't mind having them on screen if it's a complex command or sequence of buttons like some of the Paper Mario specials. Audio is too easy to mishear and I think I'd end up doing it by animation then anyway.

I liked how Gladius did timed hits, where you could either stay safe with the character's stats carrying the whole thing or go for the crit if you think you got gud enough at a particular attack's patterns.
The risk vs. reward part was perfect for multihit attacks, where if you fucked up one of the earlier hits the entire combo went up in smoke.
The button chains for gugnir and peltast attacks were fucking tense, too.
Fuck the button mashing for mauling though

Risk is a literal risk-reward system.
Its not a punishment, its a mechanic you use. To consider it a punishment is like saying the dynamic difficulty in God Hand is a punishment or getting more stuff to kill when you find secrets in serious sam is punishment.

If it's just one hit per action, I prefer audio. If it's a sequence of hits, visual. Animation does nothing for me.

Speaking of Paper Mario how that series handles things isn't with cues (usually) but with intuition. This is especially true with the stylish combos in TTYD, you're just adding input where it seems appropriate or just keep trying until you finally figure it out. -or get a badge and have it guide you even (this game really knew how to handle it's combat pretty damn commendably).

Being a fan of SMRPG as well I prefer animation.
Also having practiced karate it makes more sense to me. Since when you throw a punch in real life the optimal time to clench your fist and tighten up is right before impact.

Though the best possible implementation would be all three, with the ability to turn off visual and audio cues. That way everyone can enjoy the game, but those who don't need them can have a more immersive experience. Not to mention it makes for a better YT video, which is all the free advertising you need.

I haven't played God Hand but we're not talking about difficulty being lowered for you if you keep fucking up right? -because that is plenty a punishment to the player.

I agree with what most people have said here, visual is king.
Another game you could look at is Legend of Dragoon. One thing to consider it compared to say Shadow Hearts is that is has several timed hit mechanics that while provide variety lacks the depth SH reached when limited to the judgment ring.

After reading that I had to try it out just now and I'll be damned, that does feel way more effective for like five reasons

It is also why you see martial artist yelling when they attack. There is something to be said for the psychological effect on you and the opponent, but it also has a physical component in adding another layer of torque and density to your attack.

Tightening up at the last second is also done because it is obviously harder to react when your body is all stiff.

The best implementation would be to not have it.

You can easily reduce your risk mid combat. The real trick with mastering the game is having weapons that are used only on specific creature and element types in order to instill enough in them against those types. Then continually upgrading those weapons as you progress through the game.

Having high risk and possibly missing doesn't matter much when you can kill them in a single chain.

Gladius has them and it broke the game. Anything was 100% accurate if you used it and weren't totally incompetent.

I think Mother 3 did it the best.

i time my hits to 4:20

Please do not call weeaboo grindan sims "role-playing games" or any abbreviation thereof

I can't shill this enough user. Go play it.

while i commend you for your politeness that is a very tall request

okay then, what is a "true" RPG to you then?

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 1st Edition, played with a group of 6-8 players, ability scores rolled 3d6 down the line.

so what is final fantasy, dragon quest, and all its derivatives, if not turn-based implementations of the systems included in D&D, such as the system of allocating attribute points, dice rolls, and random encounters?

Turn-based fantasy adventure.

...

What if the game doesn't take on themes of strictly fantasy?

What if it's a game like Chrono Trigger which is mostly sci-fi at its core? Do we need a new, seperate game genre just based of the story elements?

Face it, you're being autistic out of spite. There's a reason we call them turn-based RPGs.

THAC0 is so unbelievably, horrifyingly retarded, I have no words

D&D is shit though.
Combat is a fucking slog thanks to AoOs locking down fucking everything, the balance between martial and magical classes is eternally fucked, and it originated the psuedo-Tolkein fantasy setting that can be used as a substitute for fucking anesthesia.

I went through all of FF VIII without knowing that Squall's attack is a timed hit