Weapon Durability

Has a durability counter on equipment that goes down with use and has to be restored with "repair" items ever been a fun system outside of rogue likes and not just goldsink/busywork?

It's not "realistic" either. With maintenance weapons (old and firearm) will either last until they either go from working to serious damage in an instant (axe snaps, sword bends, receiver cracks). Long term degradation (and not just filth/dullness to be cleaned) is only an issue if you are using a weapon for longer than most non-strategy games last (barrels will strip and lose accuracy over time, but that's still not at all how game maintenance is handled.)

Stress that restores regularly on its own (Way of the Samurai 1-3, Swordcraft Story 1) prevents blindly spaming attacks/blocks and can be a good mechanics, but I have never found ever decreasing durability count anything but pointless.

in new vegas , it did force you to not overuse a single weapon all the time , same with flat damage reduction mechanic.
if you see your 50. rifle decreasing in durability you will be forced to only use it if you really need to punch through heavy armor, and going with something lighter against some ordinary ghouls

it is a good system , and introduces some resource management. it also makes shit-tier mook weapons useful again even at higher levels , as sidearms or repair material.

in games where you can loot all of your opponent's equipment , it gives some use back to it other then heavy money.

other than that , realism =!= fun , especially if you put in a shitton of money to make something like a durability system as complex as in real life. the player just needs to feel the consequence of fucking up his gear , and simple defense/damage reduction is on of the most impactful ways to do it.

It'd be neat to have a game focused on gunplay, modification and maintenance of a single gun. I guess like Revolver but less tech demo.

Isn't that what the durability meter represents since games with durability meters typically go from working to broken the instant the moment the meter hits zero?

In FO3/NV, it's not a good mechanic because guns have the same durability as real life guns while your enemies are unrealistic bullet sponges since it's an RPG game.

In Custom Robo Arena your robo would get dirty after fighting a bit and you'd need to clean it to be in top condition. I didn't think it was "fun" but it did do a good job making me care more for my Robo. I really liked what they did with the cleaning system.

I don't think I have played a video game where weapon repair wasn't pointless busywork. A weapon completely breaking down if you abuse them makes sense, but needing to apply [repair kit] from time to time to make the counter go high is pretty pointless. The availability of ammunition already limits the ammount of use as a gameplay mechanic.

Sadly true, especially when you crank up the difficulty for something of a challenge.


The Fallout systems have weapon and armour effectiveness degrade steadily from 90% (for weapons) or 50% (for armour) until they finally break at 0%. Poor condition weapons are also more likely to jam.


Especially in Fallout, where Hardcore mode makes ammo have weight and the best ammo is the heaviest, and better weapons require lots of ammo. (in the case of energy weapons)


As long as it's a really good weapon, mind. Since it's not like 'Pick up a new gun off some dead guy when your old one's done' isn't a tried and true real life tactic.

It kinda worked in system shock 2 where it helped with the tension of the situation. Finding a 10/10 state weapon was so amazing because it made you feel powerful.

All things considered I found this was a good balance between realism and adding character to your tools, without being a huge money sink or chore. It only becomes annoying if you're retardedly neglectful of your gear, or if long-term combat forces you into Stage 2 or 3 in which case it's a fair enough price to pay for not walking all the way back to a gunsmith.

It doesn't matter anyway though because MISERY went to shit because the developer doesn't understand how difficulty curves should work and elected to make everything impossible without pouring your entire savings into specialised equipment for each individual quest!

We have discussed this many times and generally 90% of everyone hates durability systems and think they're unfun.

Personally, i like the solution they used in DaS2 and 3.
That means, there's a durability system but when you reach a checkpoint (bonfire) it automatically repairs your shit unless you've fully broken it, then you have to go to the blacksmith and pay to get it repaired.
I think this solution is fine, it ecnourages the durability system to be what it's intended to be, a pacing mechanism, rather than an hinderance, it's something implemented to tell the player "you can work your way from A to B and then when you reach B you need to rest a little, if you're not efficient with how you attack we'll punish you slightly, we want you to be more efficient in how you fight so you can better survive the challenges we're gonna present to you later on".

I also liked how durability worked in the Ni-OH alpha, all your shit would lose durability and "resting" wouldn't fix it, and you could only fix your stuff using consumables.
At first you might think "that's not fun", and so did most of the people that played the alpha, because they're simpletons that tuck their dick between their legs and run back home as soon as they see anything different being tried in video games.
You see, it actually worked out perfectly because what they did instead, was shower you with a billion items that enemies would drop constantly, so instead of holding onto a specific weapon or specific piece of armor, you'd keep swapping the items you were using and sticking to a certain type of weapon, and type of armor instead.
So there was this constant sense of scavenging and progression going on where you choose a weapon type, an armor weight class, and kept slapping onto you fresh pieces of equipment moving foward, it felt like you were exploring this foeign, harsh land slapping shit onto yourself to survive as it was breaking and falling off, it gave you the feeling that you were never truly safe.
Not only that, but you could sell all the inferior gear for a chance to get health and repair consumables, so it wasn't even that hard to keep specific equipment that you really, really wanted to keep on you a little longer.
It was a system that worked, it was just different, people should've just gotten used to it and worked alongside with the system presented to them, just like how people did when DeS came out and it had new, unexplored systems.
But instead they bitched and moaned and now it's removed.

Thanks, whiny, ADHD, arrogant, breaindead millenials.

Fuck off gook.

Knife blades will rust and dull if not maintained, gun parts will wear out faster if not maintained and jams will become more regular.

It as play is very relevant. Fun isn't acting stupid, or removing threat, it's doing things you didn't know you could, things that if you fuck up you die etc. Getting people to realise to get to that stage where you are doing great things requires maintenance, not as an optional thing but part of life. It missing is something wrong. You have not earned something and should die, what triumphs if you survive is stupidity. It shouldn't, look after your stuff. What goes wrong can be new things to get through next time prepared for. Going further all the time.

Bars and HUD are always stupid. You should maintain things not knowing where the limits are. Excessively, after every use, equipmet that will last forever, you aren't getting anything else.

In a game you could start with the same equip and that could be part of your health. Don't maintain it and it doesn't work. Or works worse and becomes a problem drawing attention to itself.

You need to look after stuff. You should be able to rely on it. It works how you know it should work. Things are/were built to perform as expected. Expected to have faith in their worth, objects of pride.

System of contentment by deeming everything worthless has no place in advancement. Is part of the people who don't matter.

In a game it like reloading and refilling clips. Women read magazines.
Could start maintaining weapons while assigning stat prigression paths. Only so much stamina to spend before needing to eat or sleep.

Assign stat progression to running.
Movement back in game is faster, after several days it consumes less energy and sprinting can last longer.

As an incentive to swap around stat progression; changing them having them perform better for an initial period of one day. Like life.

So run hard one day, swim using your arms the next. Climb etc.
Structure what you do in a day based on what progression path you select. Areas having areas making use of each progression path.

Call of Duty is made for kids they don't want to see gore, just want to be told they are the good guys and bein good is going along with tv shit. Shit for brains. Most never become men.

Could be fixed. But not with the pseudo american shit in the loading screens. Poor bastards may never know their anscestors were the exact opposite of their faggot selves. Glorious.

Realism is good because life is. Stupidity is not. What ever worthless shit you're into is not life. Life is wonderful. Maintenance is a chore to get used to and give no thought, has to be done like drinking and eating. Everything, engines etc. Women expect magic. Men make it by taking care of nescessities.

This sperg is in every thread now.
We're starting to resemble a mental asylum for sperg rejects instead of a video game board.

This is nothing but a constant stream of impotent rage and confusion.

Could be made interesting by an allocation of time by day. At times in the day when relatively safe time jumps forward, maintenance done during that time.

Have a screen where you select perks based on cutting away the time available to play in a day.

EG:
Weapon maintenance
-Weapons don't degrade

Sleep 8 hours
-Faster actions, more stamina

Find food and water
-All round better performance, can take all day, finding food/water off this autopilot can be part of regular play but risking it and not dedicating time at the start of the day/altering shedule may have you find none.

Playing without maintenance could be better as well. Non dependent on anything.

The more stuff you have the more tied down you are. Also treating it better the more it can get away with. It either works or it is a piece of shit works as a system. Base your life around an objective not the fuckin equipmet to get i done. Equipment is a disgusting luxury that is guaranteed to fail you, don't get attatched. Overpowered so making you comfortable, needing it.

Pseudo perfectionists wanting equipment to stay at 100% getting nothing done, time to maintain equipment an exponential arc, more time for better results also time to get materials to maintain things etc. Look after equipment that is exceptionally important, not nescessarily for daily use but will enable missions to be completed.

Could fuck around the landscape getting equipment needed to hit some objective very hard. As well as raise fitness. Spend too much time getting ready and objective ceases to become important, changes location.

Could structure game so time to objective is exponentially decreasing in importance. Danger in going to it exponentially lessening or heightening too.

Lots of objectives and one life, so failing isn't an option.

Time spent readying and maintaining a waste that reflects your lack of skill which is from a lack of effort.

Go guns blazing unarmed and get it done. Next so on. Game could demonstrate fucking around getting better is easy mode and fail mode. If you are powerful then you have wasted time. Getting yourself enslaved to equipment is treason.

For Stalker all weapons need better models. LR300 needs a model with the rhombus on top made a semicircle. Faster reloading, also related to stamina, stamina depleted and reload slower, reloading with less stamina otherwise risking a fuckup, not a smooth reload.

Different weapon properties having massive tradeoffs:

AKs
+don't jam, fast to maintain
-Heavier, recoil

ZM LR300
+Lightweight, precise, controllable recoil, fast fire rate
-Jams, long time to maintain, easily damaged

G53
+Not in game
-Was in game before being removed

Stalker doesn't have much gunplay. No endless wave gameplay. Should on objectives.

Otherwise weapon stats and the physical fitness focus determining play style.

Run around with a nonAK making precise shots.

Or swim around with an AK and shot at things that might be there, no time to check. Carrying a lot of ammo and moving slowly. Crawling over mudbanks etc. Weapon washed off in water to clean it if that. It getting about as much cleaning as you.

Stats evident by weapon performance.
Carrying more weight or more than 1 gun making more sound and deeper tracks, more foilage snapped as well. Less endurance.

AK used when conditions are bad or it will get dirty, LR when sniping and nimble, dropping the rest.

Game should play more like Ghost Recon though.

Make most maintenance and gameplay around survival. Around food and water. Even in setting up a camp and defending it, raising it. Step by step the camp becoming viable. Same for abbandoned areas, return them to livable. A higher sense of danger as they are venreble.

Keep that venrebility possible. Perks from that in better/worse sleep, could be a situational adaptation, you get more bonuses specific to the area the longer you are in it or by what you do.

Stop a town getting taxed and will get perks from sleeping in a bed etc, an the perks will increase with time. And vice versa. But perks for comfort always far higher, for the cost of more time required to do things. Sleeping close to objective may be tension filled, but saving time and being used to that. Or no perks.

Maintenance and activities that endow with perks like side quests, grind char to be stronger, but decrease action into objective.

A less retarded pacing system to make you use bonfires would be that every stamina-draining action also slightly decreases yout maximum stamina, and you have to rest at a bonfire to get back your full stamina bar.

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It's odd that Bethesda doesn't add separate sliders for enemy damage and health from the get go. They don't seem to try to have any sort of balance anyway, might as well give tiny amount of customizability to the player and hail it as a new revolutionary feature.

well theyre usually there in games with limited inventory space or weight limits right? that said, it would be nice if equipment damage manifested in a more interesting fashion than deleting itself or transforming to a broken state.

i think its an interesting mechanic in one way heroics, you may fail to identify an item. is this 12 weight sword going to be worth carrying around or is it no stronger than my short sword i started with? am i even going to find another weapon for a while? why is my character so retarded that they cant tell if something is rusted or not?

That is the issue with with enemies. I simply had a mod that made enemies have armor, creatures intended to at least. So heavily armor dudes in power armor or deathclaws could kick my teeth in and take a ton of bullets, whereas cazadores aren't armored so they died to peashooters like usual

no

7 Days To Die has item degradation. I think it's fitting because the entire point is to scavenge enough shit together to survive and to make you feel like you're living on scraps and you're going in to battle against weekly zombie hordes with whatever you've scrounged together. The fact your items and weapons also degrade means you've got to consider when it's appropriate to bring out the big guns instead of just using the biggest gun all day every day.

Firearms maintenance is more or less important in daily usage. It's never a bad idea to clean your weapon, but in most cases a firearm can go a few thousand rounds without maintenance. Of course that's just range use but even in the field, unless you're swimming in mud, it really shouldn't be an issue, most modern firearms are sealed up well enough to keep shit out.

A bigger concern is shitty ammunition like old soviet corrosive shit which will rust the fuck out of firearms if its not cleaned out, especially in humid environments. Or shitty powders used in cheap munitions which fool up the action.

But again, it's never a bad idea to clean out your firearm once a month or once a year if you don't use it that much and oil it properly and feed it decent quality ammo. See video.

Also, taking apart firearms and seeing how they work is fun

Dark Cloud has top tier weapon customization and durability mechanics. Same for Monster Hunter.
In dark cloud if you lose all weapon durability the weapon breaks and gets destroyed. Not a big deal if its a shit weapon but it can happen with your infinity+1 sword you just spent 10 hours to build up making it high risk venture.

In monster hunter weapon durability is a pretty well thought out mechanic. The sharper the weapon is the more damage multiplier it gets. Also your weapons need to be of certain sharpness to cut through monsters else they just bounce off doing way less damage. Different weapon types also have different durability counters. Hammers are very durable but not sharp whereas something like dual swords are sharp but not very durable.

Fast degradation is retarded, but not having a system like in skyrim made it piss easy.