I THOUGHT THE COMMENTS ABOUT WOW BEING DUMBED DOWN TO MOBA LEVELS WAS A JOKE!?!

I remember when all you had to do as a Warlock was spam Shadowbolt to be top DPS.

vanilla was made with love. Probably the last blizzard game that was. tbh tho I've never understood why anyone kept playing after it. TBC and all the further expansions absolutely shit on all the progression you had accomplished by that point so what's the point in trying to progress more if it's all going to be rolled back.

The shit-basic rotations applied to all DPS situations.

The fact is there's only 4-6 usefull skills per class so they culled the useless shit. Now you're pretending that they weren't useless to create controversy. Nobody was using those skills. It's been tiny rotations for a long time.

Because most people joined after vanilla.

I joined at BC and left at the end of WotLK. I remember having a shitload of fun as a holy paladin in TBC, but even so I was aware they broke all the fun of engineering in that exp.

I have no idea what I'm looking at or what any of these things mean.

A lot of abilities were fun, or just had really niche situations that made you feel good when you did use them. Mostly when it comes to pvp/world pvp and just fucking around.

There's no reason to remove spells like eye's of the beast back in the day, or to make levitate spec specific now etc

I'm not surprised.

TBC didn't shit on the major progression of vanilla when you consider 40 man raid scaling to 70. Naxx routinely shit on 25 level 70s who were attuned and had done at least one wing beforehand. And the gear of that last level of progression lasted well into SSC, TK and Hyjal. You can't argue that it was worthless just because the vast majority of players never got that far, either.

Also, while they replaced some consumables/items with outland equivalents, a lot weren't as good, or it was still profitable to have had done whatever chain or got whatever drop until wrath. I think TBC was lacking but to say it was just plain bad like the shit to come, I believe is disingenuous.

Good. Pray that you never find out.

And this isn't even counting shit like trinkets.
Yes, the druid UI isn't a clusterfuck at this point, but your friend is a certified retard.

TBC had some problems

BoJ rewards that are better than T4 loot
BoJs being so easy to get
daily quests giving as much gold as they did, lowering the value of gold
MgT loot having loot on par with that from heroics other than H MgT
H MgT having loot as good as tier 5 stuff
flying mounts having a non-limited duration, which gets rid of most world pvp
nether vortexes became easy to get later on, which meant easily-crafted tier 5 loot

all crafted and BoJ loot that doesn't require nether vortexes, hearts of darkness, or sunwell notes or w/e should only be as good as entry-level epics; that is, epics as good as the ones from the karazhan bosses before the last one

and some would say that arenas were a mistake too

Bear has always been retardedly easy and not that different from OP's pic, and he lacks non-rotational shit he should have binded like said

You want real pruning, go check every other tank who got dumbed down, particularly prot paladin.

oh, and I forgot about the PvP welfare epics
those were also a mistake

Pretty sure that Swipe replaces Maul in Legion. Maul has a rage cost, and shitty damage that's only slightly less shitty vs. bleeding targets. Swipe's free and spamming it has a chance to refresh Mangle.

Fuckin'… Mate… What in the shit man.

Boy gee howdy do I regret resubbing to this dogshit after 4 years, I'm never listening to friends again.

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This pic isn't fake, but it sure is biased.
Look at >>10120123** that's what it's like now.

Most classes lost ~6 skills each. Most of those were situational rare uses and raid buffs which have been removed now.

Less skills doesn't necessarily mean simpler gameplay either. They didn't just prune away skills and leave everything piss easy. They've lowered overall healing and once again nerfed mobility. It means that DPS can't afford to stand in fire anymore and healers just heal them up to full. It means you have to position properly because you only have 1 or 2 cooldowns that can save your ass if something goes wrong. They're moving skill from rotations to positioning and timing, which are more role-specific than class-specific.
I'm just hoping the content in Legion helps this idea along. I'd hate to see these changes happen only to discover they've made the dungeons and raids the same as Warlords.

I stopped playing after Wrath but came back midway through Warlords. Legion so far seems like a large improvement over Warlords.

What TBC needed was a way to knock people out of the sky. Do a flyby and pull him off his mount, both of you falling to the floor safely with magic or some shit and then you smack him until he's dead.

All the classes feel really boring now. I hate disc healing being about dealing damage. I hate fury being 2h only. Prot warrior just feels like I'm hitting 3 buttons.

Pretty shitty.

These and flying mounts are what killed PvP.

Also, all those faggots who turned to BGs to get gear for raiding so you ended up with rushing shitfests and countless people idling.
The only way to enjoy PvP in TBC was to level a character to 60 and stay there.

Does literally nobody read patch notes anymore?

About 90% of messages in trade chat yesterday were along the lines of "WHAT HAPPENED HUH HOW WHAT IN THE HELL HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW" that could all have been answered by just taking five minutes to read patch notes. You have only yourself to blame.

You could polymorph people on flying mounts in bc, also knockbacks used to knock people off flying mounts and to their deaths, but that may have been more prevalent in wotlk, can't remember any knockbacks in BC off the top of my head.

Maul still exists, but is pretty shit. Seems to exist to do extra DPS on bosses when the other tank is taking damage.

There were items in both MoP and WoD that allowed you to knock players off their mounts. Spike-Toed Booterang is the item in question. Has a long-ass cooldown, though.

wew

Yeah I am not a fan of that either.
I got an addond to add more stuff there but it's mostly superfluous info like movespeed and regen.

Problem with that is not every class had the abilities to do this in TBC or even Wrath (though it did improve you are right). Even something as simple as crashing face first into people would have been okay in my opinion.

I didn't play MoP during it's time, but in WoD I never saw anyone use that item. I guess nobody really cared much, at least in my realms.

Man, fuck pvers gearing up in BGs. They need to get rid of that shit. Especially with the pvp gear normalization they need to make sure that pvp gear isn't something nice for pve. It'd just invite more idiots.

they should've added these limitations to all PvP gear introduced in TBC and onwards:
this gear cannot be worn in instances or raids
while wearing this gear, you cannot enter any instances or raids

well dungeons or raids, rather than instances or raids

Also,

OP is an obvious shit-stirrer.

That would be extremely retarded and I see no reason why people who worked to get the top PvP gear shouldn't be able to use it in raids.
The real issue is the fact that you could get entry level stuff by virtually doing nothing in a BG. Whether you won or lost didn't matter at all, you'd get all of the "welfare epics" anyway, it was only a matter of time.

It's a fucking travesty when shit is cut from a game, call it what ever you want it doesn't change what it is.
Maybe its ok when blizzard does since we now have a ton of blizz drones thanks to overwatch.
Go back to your containment thread.

~Legacy~ Servers never ever

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Well, now I remember why I left.

satan pls

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Can someone explain to me why people judge "depth" or "difficulty" or whatever the fuck based on keybinds? Just because a game controls like complete ass and you spend more time fighting the controls than reacting to things in the game, it's hardcore?

I mean I know these are the same idiots who genuinely believe WoW was ever good or anything other than a casualized piece of shit that destroyed the genre, but come on. I thought they just believed WoW was in-depth because they never experienced a real MMO, not because it has way too many keybinds and is clunky as hell in every way.

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Upside:

Downside:

True, but a lot are also now baked into skills. As an example that I'm familiar with, they baked in two Ghost Wolf glyphs into the basic spell, the one that makes it so you don't fall below 100% speed while in wolf form and the one that lets you use it while dead.

Isn't it good to have choice, though? I mean, if there's only one good talent in a tier, that doesn't make for interesting gameplay. If there's not really a choice, why bother having talents?

Well first off OP's pic is an obvious troll. It shows the absolute basic rotational abilities and fails to include any utility, defensive, or cooldown abilities. And even before, it's not like most classes' primary rotations involved more than five or six abilities anyway. There's still plenty of buttons to press, more if you take active ability talents. You just don't have to keybind forty abilities to have everything covered anymore.

yeah, anyone who complains about bare bars is literally retarded. As someone who actually played during vanilla, I think people tend to forget how basic and dumb everything was, from class rotations to raid mechanics.

Is your friend too retarded to take screenshots?

This must be that whole "subtle trolling" thing all the kids are into.

Whats next, Mortal Strike a lv 100 Talent for warriors? or Shadowform being a lv 100 talent

back in the day those two were relatively high level rewards on the actual talent trees
always consider

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Funny how we are going back there, nothing like expansions gutting and removing more stuff than they add, huh?

Demon hunters have a 2 button rotation if you so desire.

Stop being a blizzdrone. The game is shit simplified casual bullshit.
Compare Legion to any expansion pre-Cata. There are far less abilities, the rotations are far less complex, and you have less active cooldowns than ever.
The fact that people defend this kind of ability pruning and casualization of the game is infuriating.

I played it for an hour recently, even made a thread about it.
Combat is super dumb and boring in this game. I get it, shit's old and there were technological limitations 10 years ago, but why the fuck didn't they reworked it?

I can deal with super primitive graphics, silly art style, all the jazz, but dear god combat is unbearable.

Plenty of MMOs now has much better combat that is either pseudo action or full on tactical stats based, but with cool animations, interesting abilities and at least some sort of interactivity.

sucks yes but your given roll the bones instead which can give you up to 6 buffs for the duration of the skill but good fucking luck getting all 6

started in mop with some friends because i've never played wow before, loved the shit out of pvp and frost dk and warrior, even went on to play destro lock later and loved the classes, wod comes out making every class i played in mop a joke and pvp is broken the entire epac, i only resubbed whenever friends wanted to do stuff and fucking hated playing any class then this pre patch comes out and everything is 10 times worse yea. how do you fuck up such good class design in mop, everyone loved playing there class and i only had 3 characters the entire epac and thats mostly because of triple exp, now fucking everyone and there mom has 20 maxx level characters and hates playing any of them. ive fucking moved on at this point. i might go play kronos or warmane since people loved those epacs too, i already played nost and loved it, but i want a mop legacy server for pvp but i doubt blizzard will ever do that.

Rotations didn't become a thing until blizzard started taking autistic players seriously. By today it's become a chicken or the egg thing but the truth is it was always the egg, and blizzard started paying attention to autistic faggots who were searching for the perfect min-max builds. They started to shape the game around their twisted view, that instead of giving the players tons of abilities and a tree and still letting them build situational and unorthodox ways of succeeding, they should only stick to one hyper-efficient min-max method. That's where rotations came from - a simple meta concept brought to us by the most autistic WoW players. What was meta should have always stayed meta because now in WoW we barely have anything to shake up the monotony of a rotation. You can no longer play your class "wrong" and defy the whims of leaderfags in groups and out do their expectations. You don't even have a choice. You can only play or completely fuck up, and people still manage to completely fuck up because only casualfags play WoW. Isn't it fucking pathetic that these classes have become so strong and powerful yet have the minimal amount of abilities to show for it? It's a disgrace.

Nothing will ever bring back Vanilla and TBC ;_;

private servers mate but it will never be the same for any epac you like

wtf are you talking about? your the reason why legion is like this you complain how fucking hard it is to learn your class and yea your right there is no fucking builds anymore. i want the old talent builds and all the old rpg elements but blizzard caters to casuals like you and thats too hard for them, and you did used to use all your abilities i played vengeance for awhile as a lock and for pvp i pretty much use every ability but for raiding there was just the shadowbolt spam build or the fire spam build which were really boring, and guess what if your making up some new build and it isn't working you get kicked thats it, unless your that one rouge in the raid thats out damaging everyone tough fucking luck

There are about a million other things you could have complained about but you chose something as trivial as offspec druid form abilities?

Did you even read his post? He wasn't saying it was hard to learn classes, he's saying that blizzard stripped away the possibility of ever playing a class the way you want and instead just have to color inside the lines.

You're essentially arguing his point back at him.