Hitler and the SS's Racial Plans

A thread about the Reich's ultimate racial goals. Current events are fine and dandy. But I do not think we, who have rejected mere civic solutions and chosen to inherit Adolf Hitler's great dream, should lose sight of that dream. And, if possible, we should all make sure we agree on what he meant.

I.

As far as I understand it, Hitler's intention, in short, was to consolidate the western branch of the Aryan race: what we might today call the descendants of the proto-Indo-European people in Europe. As the PIE hypothesis goes, the eastern branch settled Persia, the Middle East, and the Indus Valley, giving rise to Persian, Sanskrit and the Vedas, before fading away; the term "Aryan", from the Sanskrit "arya" (and ultimately the PIE *aryas, meaning noble), was used before the PIE language had been reconstructed. Hitler did not believe that the Aryan race existed in the 20th century, but had been succeeded by a number of child tribes of Aryan heritage which were more or less intermixed with other races throughout Europe. In India and the Middle East, of course, the Aryan race had been transformed entirely through racial mixing with the local Arabic and Dravidic people, either causing or because of the collapse of their civilizations.

The NSDAP and SS believed that the Nordic people were the closest to the original Aryans of 4000 BC, both because of their relative isolation from other races, and because they believed that the Aryan Urheimat, or ancestral home, was in the northern Urals, and that the Aryans as a whole shifted West as Turkic, Slavic and Altaic groups moved in from the East; Scandinavia being closest. The current 2017 hypothesis is that the Urheimat was in Crimea, with the Yamana culture*; but there is also evidence that it could be Anatolia, the Baltic states, or the Urals, the latter especially because of how close the Uralic langauges are to the reconstructed PIE. This would be the "Hyperborea" the Greeks referenced.

At any rate, despite Nordic qualities, Hitler decided that, in practice, the Germanic people were the best-suited to unite and lead the Aryans, because of their greater numbers, military might and the massive industrial base of the Germanic countries. The German people would form the "nucleus" of a new Reich, around which the Germanic (distinct from German) people would rally, and ultimately, Aryans everywhere.

—

*this is the Kurgan hypothesis; while kosher, it is by no means firm, and does not address the issue that reconstructed PIE has no word for "sea", curious for a people supposedly living on a peninsula.

Other urls found in this thread:

8ch.net/pdf/res/681.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonaguni_Monument
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

II.

To this end, the Reich would find the Aryan blood in the people of Europe, the greater or less, and bring it together in a single, racially harmonious, yet vibrant and dynamic state. At the centre would be the consolidated "nucleus": the German people. This included Germany, Austria, the Sudetes and Alastians, but also the Baltic Germans, whom the Reich resettled in Wartheland during the war under the "Heim ins Reich" program, and despite the fact that Germany had conquered the Baltic states anyway.

Next were the Germanics: the Nordic, British, and the inhabitants of the Low Countries, who could be incorporated without delay. The French were deemed suitable with a little work. In the East, contrary to popular belief, the Poles and Czechs were not exterminated blindly; the RuSHA of the SS selected those with Aryan blood and incorporated them, too, into the Reich, giving the children full German educations. Overall, the Reich intended to Germanize the other Aryan groups, not out of German chauvinism, but because it would give them a common culture. While Himmler and much of the SS was in favour of full assimilation, Hitler was fairly moderate on the matter, and wanted the other countries to maintain separate subcultures and even languages. He believed this would add dynamism and creativity to the Reich; similar to the linguistic and cultural position Bavaria held within Germany.

The Jews had no place in an Aryan Reich, as a Semitic race. However, Aryan blood could be salvaged from them, too, and this hope was reflected in the Nuremberg laws: those of a quarter Jewish blood or less were to marry pure Aryans only, and eventually assimilate genetically. Those of greater Jewish heritage were to breed with pure Jews only, so as to remove the Aryan blood from them, the better for them all.

I will not comment on where Hitler intended to place the Jews, whether it be Madagascar, Palestine or an ash heap; but all available evidence suggests that, racially, he wanted to cleanly separate them from Aryans, in a controlled and educated manner.

Heil Hitler.

Nuremberg laws come from before genetic testing existed. They are outdated. A fourth of a jew is still a dangerous amount of jew, enough for not only physical but mental features to surface often. Enabling race mixed kikes into your society is allowing your white genes to be mongrelized with kike blood. There is no separation between white race and kikes and there never will be. Kikes are a parasite and they will constantly seek a new host to leech out of and spread into other hosts. Now their host is whites and they constantly seek to branch out into China for the past century or so. Separation is simply not possible, because the kike will do everything to go back and fuck your people up again. See: all the previous mass pogroms and expulsions

III.

Ultimately, when hostilities had ended, the Aryan people and Europe would be united into a continental power hundreds of millions strong, to rival the rising dominance of America and China. Over a few generations, through good policy and sound racial choices, Hitler hoped that the Aryan people would be restored and made whole once more. Where their quest for new frontiers took them from there, was a question for their children.

It is maddening to draw comparisons with the EU today, and imagine a Reich stretching to the natural borders of the Urals and the Mediterranean, just as America has the ocean, and China has the Himalayas.

I'd like to attatch a short SS book on racial theory and mate selection, if possible. It's in PDF.

8ch.net/pdf/res/681.html

What the hell ?!?

What were the Reich's methods of ensuring this genetic program? I believe marriage laws that prevent marriage between incompatible groups is something I already knew, but were there other methods in place?

Also, this is meant to be 'extermination' in the original meaning of ex-terminate, to move something out of the borders of something, or in the modern sense of killing people? The latter seems less likely given the sentence talking about Hitler's desire to keep subcultures within the Reich.

WTF IS YOUR SOURCE?

The Rasse- und Siedlungshauptampt, the SS's Racial and Settlement Office, generally oversaw the enactment of the racial program. They also opened up the Lebensborn program, which provided an extremely high level of care - the first comprehensive program I know of in the world - to new mothers, including a network of country clinics where women could give birth in peace and quiet, even if the child was out of wedlock.

Himmler laid out SS policy with the intention of it being an "order of light" and example for the entire Reich, who would put into practice Hitler's ideas, and this included at the racial level. It was forbidden (as the PDF I linked mentions) for SS men to get married without first consulting the RuSHA, and they could not in general marry women of less Aryan blood than they themselves had. Otherwise, they would be honorably discharged from the order. In this way, the SS would lead the charge to raise genetic standards across the Reich over the course of many generations.

Anyway, by extermination, I'm talking about the common misconception that Germany basically rolled across the East killing any Pole or Russian they saw on sight. Official policy was a little more nuanced than that, but doesn't make for a good boogeyman.


Various old books and documents, piecemeal, including Mein Kampf (though it's been a while since I read it) and the SS racial-hygiene book I linked. I'll post another good one called "Germany Speaks" in the /pdf/ thread.

It should be noted that these views were by no means universal within the German government, and that Speer, for instance, is said to have wanted something closer to the modern EU but with national socialist local governments, and Germany leading the union.

Those dubs are perfect.

According to ancient German lore, the huns, including Attila the hun weren't asiatic at all, but German. They called him "king Etzel" and this was the reason Germans were called "huns" in WW1. This is also why Wilhelm II gave this speech to his troops in 1900 to quell the boxer rebellion.

"When you meet the enemy, he will be defeated! No quarter will be given! No prisoners will be taken! Those who fall into your hands are forfeit to you! Just as a thousand years ago, the Huns under their King Etzel made a name for themselves that make them appear awe-inspiring in tradition and myth, so shall you establish the name of Germans in China for a 1000 years, so that a Chinese will never again dare to look askance at a German."

I know our history is all fucked up, were they right? Or was this just a mistranslation that was made even more confusing over a thousand years? I'm asking here because I don't trust anything on Google.

Oh, and if you mean my source on the PIE hypothesis, mostly Wikipedia. That's accepted mainstream. The character of David from Ridley Scott's Prometheus even spoke reconstructed PIE in the movie. I thought it was guttural but elegant.

"Aryan" is a term from ethnography which is far too inclusive, moreso than "white" even.


Hitler had 200,000 kikes(more than half jew) in his army, a dangerous liability.

The solution in my mind isn't a united or peaceful coolition of whites but a purging of everyone who has "liberal" values so as to eliminate the traits which lead to the expression of the behaviors which are causing the problems we face. Combine that with the extermination of muds and we won't need cooperation or brotherhood. The nations can fight forever and won't be in danger of being overrun by shtiskins because they'll all be ashes.

pipedreams that destroyed germany,
should`ve been avoided until the war was over,
this shit is very expensive to deal with

European ethnicities should be kept seperated to preserve their culture and own genetics. However all European peoples should become more 'Germanised'. Expecially in countries like those of the Soutern Balkan, Iberian and Italian peninsula. They have lost many European threats because of interbreeding with Ottomans, and north Africans and others. Also the countries, although seperated, should work together without losing their rights to govern themselves

Hitler was too lenient with people closer to him while he was too "overbearing" to people outside his inner circle (to the point that he was incurring high casualties to the Wehrmacht by giving stupid orders). Because of those there are bound to be misgivings of various kinds to Hitler and co.

He could have won the war and made the "Thousand Year Reich" a reality but instead of sticking to reality, his delusions of grandeur got the best of him.
He should have:
>told Mussolini to git gud with his military and if he doesn't, the Reich would make an example out of him.
>made Goering do his job instead of him parroting his WWI ace/veteran pilot status. (Since him being appointed by Hitler to the Luftwaffe, haven't seen anything of value attributed to him nor were there any improvements on the Luftwaffe while he is in charge. mebbe i am wrong on this one)
TL;DR: He could have had the Baltics and Italy as buffer zones, competent people, and the oil he needed. Too bad he went full retard.

Or when the dryads genocided the halflings at Shiresville. But hey, you can still tell him to do it,

in your head, where that shit's real.

>in your head, where that shit's real.
The clusterfuck that was known as Bloody Sunday happened while Poland was getting their shit kicked in from the west. And it was said that German irregulars started it all.

Checked

You reflect Hitler's wishes in the first two sentences and Speer's in the last two. It was a reasonable stance to take in the time of the Reich.

Checked. Sieg Heil.

Do you think that a massive economic depression is part of the recipe to get NS and ethnic programs an actual possibility again, or something akin to them? Or would a different set of circumstances also be able to redpill the masses enough to get them at least out of the way of it or on board with it?

I am inclined to believe one needs a massive time of desperation in order for such a radical change to occur. Normies eat from whatever palm offers them the best meal, even if it is just crumbs from a (((bad hand))).

Contrary to what geography might suggest, Estonians are are not Baltic but rather an offshoot of Finns.

You forgotー

PURGE THE JUNKERS

This.
Traitors all of them.

never forget

What was bad about the Junkers? From my long-ago studies about them, they were the Prussian military class essentially that made Germany such a massive threat in WWI and then in WWII. Arguably it was Hitler's disregard for their tactics that led to Germany's failure in the latter parts of WWII, so the history book I read said. It was very general European history though, so filling in the blanks would be helpful.

They were socially conservative landowners, and made up most of the Wehrmacht's officer corps while many disliked the NSDAP and the SS. There were Junker plots to kill Hitler even before war began, and most of the conspirators in the July 20 plot were Junkers, including von Stauffenberg himself.

That's the problem. They were hardcore reactionaries who wanted to preserve their privileged class and a monarchy.
They had contempt for the lower classes and Austrians. Hitler was both lower class and an Austrian so they were upset that he was the leader of Germany instead of one of them.
In general they sabotaged the war effort and were disloyal because they didn't care about Germany, just their status.
For example the Stauffenberg plot to kill Hitler was led by the Junkers. They hoped to overthrow National Socialism and reinstate their reactionary order. They didn't realize that the Allies were waging war against Germany and even if their plot succeeded, they wouldn't receive any better treatment from the allies.

The Horst Wessel Lied specifically mentions that National Socialism is against the reactionaries.

*waging war against Germany, not Hitler

Very interesting. Was Rommel part of that conspiracy? What information I gathered on that is a bit foggy, but normally it is reported that Hitler basically made him commit suicide to avoid his family getting punished.

And as for the Junkers, were they the driving force of the German military, one of a few, or relics left over from pre-WWI? I didn't hear anything about Junkers after WWII, so I assumed they were basically destroyed as a coherent class in the aftermath of the war.

They were THE force behind the Heer, owing to reasons of Preußentum. The Waffen-SS was more meritocratic and came from all over Germany.

The Junkers' lands were all in the core of Prussia, in the east, which was split up between Poland and the DDR at the end of the war. In the DDR the land was expropriated into collectives (the famous "Junkerland in Bauerhand" campaign) and I assume the same happened in Poland and Konigsberg. The Junkers fled to the Bundesrepublik but never were able to recover their land.

He wasn't a participant, but he might have known about it.

Well they were an aristocracy for a reason, they were absolutely capable.

The Allies "abolished" the state of Prussia, physically split up the land, and Denazification also targeted anything Prussian. So yes, they don't exist anymore.

The great problem with nordicism always was and still is that the Scandinavics, as the purportedly most pure of that racial group, are decidly inferior in historical and cultural achievements to the central and southern European peoples. Even keeping Germany out of the question (which never was a very nordic country in the first place), Scandinavics never even came close to what the French, Spanish and Italians achieved. That is nordicism's big achilles heel.

That nobility versus common-man military angle was sort-of explored in Valkyria Chronicles, though I'm sure it is far older than even the knights vs peasants feudalism before it. More importantly, is the lack now of that Prussian military tradition or even the Junkers themselves crippling Germany's ability to shake off its (((malaise)))?


If the Allies were successful in rooting out Junkers, why hasn't it been quite as successful in rooting out NS sentiments? Wider base of support and actors, or are the ideas themselves more resistant to abolition than aristocratic institutions?


I had been thinking that was a big question about the Aryan idea that the nordics were the closest to that ideal. Scandinavians were never like the Romans or Greeks or Egyptians in terms of civilization construction, yet they are the template to rebuild Aryans from? They've historically got the heroic mentality well established, but that seemed to largely channel itself into warfare rather than engineering. I don't know what they are like nowadays save for cucks and those upset with their cucked brethren. Maybe it is just locked-up potential.

And so getting back to the racial idea of bringing about Aryans again, is it basically the idea that Aryans don't quite exist anymore, but through proper breeding among European populations that they could be sort-of resurrected from their descendants?

>Built the pyramids
And much later started racial biology which awestruck Natsoc Germany


Nordics were at the time at least the purest.
The people you speak of were as the nordics before, now they are mongrels interbred with semites and moors.

That was always the question. Many people, even on Holla Forums, implicitly and unspokenly assume that Aryanism = Nordicism, but if Aryanism is based on the idea of superiority, nordicism falls apart given the mediocre performance of the Scandinavics. One could argue that Scandinavics have a high PIE/nativwe European admixture, so the great Aryan migrations perhaps passed them by.

Possibly, but only if they really have inherent superior qualities and don't just have a certain phenotype. In my opinion, Aryanism is and must be based on QUALITY, not on this or that color inb4 nigger/spic, I have full German ancestry, but the Scandinavian question IS a huge problem

Partially true. I would be glad if it had been warfare of the conquering, peramentently state-building type, but apart from EARLY Russia/Novgorod and Normandy, their warfare was limited to niggardly small-scale raids.


Yes, the original Rurikid nucleus around Novgorod. Russia as a culture and country was a Muscovite creation, though.

Of course, I can and do respect that, but it simply does not compare to the conquering/colonizing anbd cultural achievements of the Spaniards, French and Italians. Germany itself is a huge counterpoint to nordicism, because the centers and majorities never were the classical blond/blue-eye phenotype.

Those were the Ancient Aryans, NOT Nordics/Scandinavics. Chronology and lineage is important.

This is the point. This is exactly the question if that vaunted "racial biology" holds any water if the very point of that thesis (nordic = superior) cannot unequivocally be proven.

We don't know that. On the contrary. haplogroup analysis shows large admixture of PIE/native ancestry. They DO tend to produce light complexions (light eyes, blond hairs), BUT they actually have quite small R1, i.e. Aryan admixture.

They have the highest Cro-Magnon relationship and non-mixed DNA so we do know that they are the purist. The fact that they are now the only intelligent creator race left on the planet is proof positive though. R1 isn't the indication, it's just a deviation.

Anglos are Nordic. Nordic doesn't mean "northern central Europe".

Look at all the stuff that came out of those countries, like inventions, natural science, etc. and compare their output with their population size. It's quite amazing.


The Nuremberg laws are a hoax. Research the history of how and when the documents were found. (It's the same with the Wannsee Protocol and Himmler's Posen Speech.) These documents were created because jews need to predent laws for everything, in their opinion goys need to follow various laws like the ten commandments on stone tablets. They couldn't possibly understand that Aryan people who act with honor don't need stupid laws.

Other than Tocharian, they didn't really "fade" away. There was admixture in India, but the further north one is, the more Indo-European genes are obviously still present. Southern India was largely Dravidian from the get-go, anyways.

Persia, contrary to popular (those who briefly skim over the history without reading further) belief, was never actually fully occupied or conquered by the Arabs for any extended period of time. Any Arab influence on formerly Persian areas that is sizable would be in the area that is now Iraq.

TL;DR these groups didn't stagnate because of racial admixture, it was more likely from other factors (their choice of religion? Isolation? War between themselves?)

Anyone who knows more please correct me on this

I'm E1b1b/E-M215

what does this make me?

Pure, perhaps - but definitely not pure ARYANS. The classical Aryan kladdes in haplogroup analysis are R1a/b, while Scandinavics have very high I1/2 admixture, i.e. native European ancestry before the great Aryan conquests and migrations. Perhaps Scandinavia was separated by the Baltic Sea from these population streams.

But that's the point - who is "they"? ARYANS created most or perhaps all of the great civilisations, no doubt about that. But we are specifically discussing nordicism, on the of the racial hypothesis within Aryanism. And that specific hypothesis is imho not very well supported. Nordics neither conquered great empires, nor did they colonize large areas, nor did they create great cultural movements nor did they even construct great stone buildings and monuments. I would never use that ugly epithet "snow niggers" - in fact, I like them on a personal level -, but the cold, hard truth is that Scandinavics were not especially succesfull compared to French, Germans, English, Spanish and Italians.

In its purest sense - what nordicism is about - yes it does, imo. Anglos, as in "British", are an interesting mixture of PIE natives, Celts, Romanics, Anglo-Saxon conquering tribes and later Franco-Nordics. Very idiosyncratic and interesting, genetically speaking. Also very caste/class-dependant, given the highly hierarchic nature of that society. It's e.g. no secret that British aristocracy has VERY high Jewish admixture; they started intermarrying very early, from Cromwell on if I'm not mistaken.


No doubt about their techno-scientific achievements in the modern age:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country

BUT Aryanism was never simply about high-IQ performance, but about greatness, about lasting conquering and state-building for the ages. In fact, for e.g. an SS officer that narrow focus on eggheaded inventiveness regarding this or that machine would have been highly insulting; after all, they saw themselves as a warrior elite, a new aristocracy.


A gas chamber candidate :^) Just kidding, I don't know. Haplogroup analysis is only useful imho on the population level, individual genetics are highly complex and idiosyncratic, and the final phenotypic outcome heavily depends on a lot of environmental/epigenetic factors, e.g. nutrition, sunlight exposure, class etc.

Do you know an unkiked racial makeup test I can take?
It would also be good if it was abalible worldwide as I don't live in burgerland.

I supose I'm northern italic and spaniard.

This, and even more: there NEVER were large Arab migrations from the peninsula in the first place, given the very low population densities of that arid region. Islam overwhelmingly spread by missionary activity, most converts having been Nestorian Christians in the former territories of the Byzantine Empire: Egypt, the Levant, North Africa/Berbers.

there's this guy down the block from me that takes sperm samples, do you want his email?

meant for you

Why do they look like this then?

To be honest: no. All the large providers (iGenia, 23andme etc.) are kike-owned, and the field of (medical) genetics is overwhelmingly Jewish in the first place. Has to do with the large list of Jew-specific diseases brought about by centuries-long inbreeding. I would recommend giving three or four of them a try and compare the results. Living outside of the US is not a problem, they are readily available in most countries, even e.g. Africa and Latin America. You open an account, they send you a small package for saliva sampling, you send it back and within a few weeks you got your results.

Those are nationalities/peoples, not haplogroups. The two can be VERY different. One can legally and culturally be e.g. Brasilian, but genetically R1a, i.e. pure Aryan, if one happens to be born within strict mennonitic settler communities. Just an example.


Statistics are important, showing this or that specific individual is not helpful for population-level analysis. There are definitely very "white" people in Iran to this very day, although centuries-long asiatic conquests from the steppes as well as pre-Aryan admixtures can definitely produce darker phenotypes.

Forgot to add, those tests are quite cheap nowadays, prices are going steadily down. Less than a 100 USD, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, i should have added that, too.

North African populations, for example, are not really Arabs. They are "Arabized" and even then the Arabic dialects they speak are so different from standard Arabic that, say, Moroccans and Saudis cannot communicate without using "Modern Standard Arabic".

This apples to "Arabs" from the Levant area, Syria, etc, as well.

At the end of the day, the "Arab identity" seems to just point at Sunnis who speak an Arabic dialect, nothing more.

Ahmadinejad does not look like a typical Persian. He is a definite outlier when it comes to a typical Persian "phenotype" and not just because of his skin tone. He (and his sons and most of his family) look like they could fit in somewhere in Pakistan or parts of India). He doesn't look Arab, either.

Then again, he could also fit in in some parts of Georgia and Armenia, as well as various republics in the Caucasus.

Wouldn't those Asiatic conquests bring lighter skin if anything? I once read that one of the only significant non-IE admixtures in both Iran Afghanistan, etc. as well as Germany, Eastern Europe, etc. came from Mongol invasions, etc.

Either way, it's a really small amount in both populations, with the obvious exception of groups like the Hazaras

The pre-Aryan admixture in places such as Iran would allegedly be Elamites, but all the information on that is really shaky. There were pre-Aryan groups existing in the Caucasus and parts of Europe, too.

I should add that my observations of Iranians comes from the (very many) that live in my area.

I'd say they come across as Sicilian/Greek/Armenian/Lebanese looking with the occasional one who looks Indian and the occasional one that looks Jewish (and usually is actually Jewish).

Anyone who has actually been over there could probably make a better analysis.

Were the genetics of Germany actually changed by the red army rapes or is that largely demoralization slander? I remember reading about a ridiculous amount of abortions their women conducted. Apparently enormous amounts of them killed themselves too. I haven't been to the eastern side of Germany but I've seen some genetic infographs that place a suspicous divide between west/east Germany. How terrible it would be if it were actually true.

I heard about that too. My history teacher said that if you were a woman in Berlin when the Soviets came, you got raped.

Soviet generals started having soldiers hung left and right for messing with the population, especially once they realized that they wanted to hang on to Germany and use it as a buffer state.

Furthermore, most Soviet soldiers were poor as fuck, so it's not like women would want to marry or date them for financial support.

Yes, there was a lot of rape. No, it did not affect the genetic makeup of Germany.

The Soviet troops who were raping (Asiatic troops and drunk Ivans) were also raping their own women and Eastern European women on their way to Germany. Yugoslavia got angry about Soviet raping their way through their country, too.

Berlin was arguably the worst spot, though, followed by Vienna.


The most disciplined troops who weren't raping left and right were being killed at the front. I remember reading a report by a German soldier who noted that when there was fighting going on, they almost only encountered Russians who looked just like his own countrymen. Whenever they broke through Russian lines far enough past the front lines (or towards the end of the war), he noted that they started seeing lots of Mongoloid and Asiatic troops who he noted as being overly brutal.

unlikely to any significant extent, keeping in mind that east Germany already would've had more DNA associated with Slavic and Baltic peoples. Even when Prussian civilians fled into West Germany during and immediately after the war the West Germans owing to mannerisms and other markers basically considered them Slavic outsiders.

additionally to just consider not every woman was raped/not every woman was fertile at the moment/most women probably had an abortion and the amount of children born specifically from rape or even consensual liaisons would be fairly low. I'm speaking out of my ass though, I do know that there was a hell of a lot of children born in occupied Norway to German soldiers, so I could be way off the mark

Well said, agree completely. "Arab" really has become a kind of a cultural signifier instead of the original genetic one. Further complicating the issue is that even within Sunnidom, peninsular Arabs only form a small (albeit highly respected) minority. The largest Muslim country today is Indonesia - racially obviously very different from the stereotypical bearded desert-dwellers of yesterday.

Very good question. Yes, until today it remains a mystery of what race(s) many of the steppe nomads before the Mongols were. Scythians for example could have been, as you said, racially europid.

Definitely, and this is what mightily complicates the whole Aryanism vs. Nordicism debate.


Persia had and still has one of the largest and best-integrated diaspora communities of the world. Geostrategically speaking Israel and Iran are arch-enemies, but ethnically/psychologically there were and are very few hosts such gracious and generous to Jews as Iran. The Persians strictly and scrupoulusly differentiate between Jews as an ethnicity within Iran, and the state of Israel as such. In fact, the pro-Persian lobby within Jewish circles are heavily fighting the Zionist fraction, according to what one hears.


Rapes were terrible, but as you said, many abortions and suicides "luckily" prevented large-scale genetic influences, which were mostly reduced to urban areas in the first place.

Yes, but those differences go back far longer. The great river Elbe always was the demarcating line between classical rhinelandic Germanics and the later germano-slavic conquests. Don't forget that the hypothesized epicentre of Aryan migrations is supposed to have been somewhere north of the Black Sea, so you can and will encounter "Aryan" phenotypes (blond hair, blue eyes) going very deep into Russia.


True, but "only" until about end of '45, '46. Afterwards the Soviets had a great interest in stabilizing things because of the Cold War. Restating public order, getting manufacture going again, conscription etc. For the rest of the GDR's existence, a rapist soldier was killed, no question asked.


Exactly.

Yes, and apart from that the language issue.

This. The "germanic" Russians were depleted until '43, '44, afterwards they brought in the Uralic/Sibiric mongoloind types.

Of course, but those were voluntary pairings, not rapes. Rape was a big no-no in the Wehrmacht and SS and liable to the death penalty.

my point is that the Norwegian occupation led to a significant amount of children born to German fathers, proportional to the Norwegian population. Tens of thousands if I remember correctly

If anything like these proportions existed in East Germany then it could possibly result in a very, very small, but still noticeable effect on the genepool

sage

This is a bullshit larping thread the OP has admitted he made up through his own thoughts.

So there is no point to it

Yes the aim was to either reconstruct a pure Aryan race or weed out non-Aryan genetics from the people of Europe, which are two sides of the same thing.


As the OP says, this is why Hitler believed the Germanic branch of the Aryans were most fit to lead. He saw the Nordics as the purest racially, but in terms of real power and historical feats, the Germanics the strongest. I think the Nordics were just his best source as to what Aryans "should" be.

I cannot produce sperm.

I already know that. I was saying it as to consider the general population.


Should I buy now or wait?
How do I convince my family to buy a kit?

Those proportions didn't exist. Norwegians and Germans are/were similar enough in many ways, there wasn't a massive language or cultural barrier, and the occupation of Norway was a relatively peaceful process. On top of that, the Germans were "top dog" (being the occupying force) and probably weren't dirt poor.

The Russians in East Germany had a massive language barrier, no money, the locals hated them, etc. Furthermore, as the Russians would have brought in troops and workers who could speak German and communicate with the locals and local leadership….guess what? Those guys would have usually been descendants of ethnic Germans living in Russia . Those would have been the ones most likely to get with the ladies and start a family with kids.

HEIL HITLER

Disagree. This is the very point of the haplogroup findings and this discussion. Weeding out non-Aryan (i.e. anything besides R1a/b) genes would mean the purging of large swathes of Scandinavics, who are not very Aryan, but have large I2/PIE (i.e. pre-Aryan, hunter-gatherer native) admixture.

Caution. Hitler was not as nearly as big on racial issues as is often believed, even among Holla Forumsacks or "rightist" types. SS and certain parts of the NSDAP and the academic establishment were big on biological racialism (craniometrey etc.), but reading Kampf clearly shows that Hitler himself thought mainly along political and cultural-historical lines. There are very divergent views on race within the larger rightist sphere: Italian/Mussolinic fascism, Evolian traditionalism, Spenglerianism - they all attacked NS race doctrine at various points in time, and all of them had some good points.

That's the question, isn't it? What "should" they be? Are you speaking phenotyically? Or from a performance standpoint? Because the latter clearly hasn't much empirical support.


Spain and Italy are fascinating, ethnogenetically speaking.

Start now, with one provider, to at least have something to base further investigations on. Afterwards you can experiment with other providers. Never forget to always double-check and compare with genealogical information, i.e. data obtained from archival or familiy-historical investigation.

If they cannot be interested to learn about their ancestry they are inferior in the first place, as harsh as that sounds. If you are of legal age, nobodoy inhibits you from saving 70 to 90 bucks and buy a testing kit, e.g. from 23andme, perhaps the largest commercial provider.

I know. Some years ago I remember there was a controversy because a ton didn't want to change its name that rougly transalted to "jewsalyers".

wut

"Moor-slayer" is a big one. Many places in Mexico, including a city of half a million people, have that name.

A quick google search will lead you to buy ANCESTRY as the best option, then use all the free tools out there to check for desease, ethnicity, etc.

Estonia is Finland's little, autistic brother who got stuck on the wrong side of a puddle

Post the german original and I'll translate it for you

maybe they werent such materialists

That's because
a) Nordicism is full of shit. There's nothing really that would set the Scandis apart, and the whole notion about "pure Aryans" is full of shit. Genetically they're closely related to the finnicish original inhabitants of the land. And there is anythig wrong with that, finns are most honorary of all slants.
b) Environment. Namely, population carrying capacity and surplus. The tougher the environment, the hardier the people but there's also way less of them. And a more substantial part of the population is required to work merely to survive. Civilizations require IQ but also surplus. You can't build temples if you're busy fishing to feed your family, and you can't design peculiar mechanisms and study the physical world if you're busy fighting wolves and neighbours for food scraps.

Pic related is wonderful scenery, and no doubt made for some very strong, driven men - but it's not the place where cities appear and scholars gather.

Nah.
You people think you know your history, but the reality is, you have no real idea past about the last millennia BC, and have accepted questions as answers.

I DO compart the Ancient/Antediluvian Aryan hypothesis, but we are not talking about Aryans as a supra-race - we are talking specifically about Nordics, of whom todays Scandinavics (according to the nordicist doctrine) are the most pure example. What said or yours truly , , holds observationally true. I like Scandis on a personal level and vacationed in Norway and Sweden a few times, so don't take this as an insult, but the historical record speaks a clear language.

here comes the pole to remind us why they must be all gassed

Borderline we wuz shit. I believe things that have evidence. There is neither evidence nor even a compelling hypothetical reason to think there was some sort of nordic supercivilization at any point in history. You could stop being a nigger and actually do what other white men did to get an edge over everyone else - observe the world impartially and draw conclusions with predictive value.

Civilizations don't develop in places where humans can't sustain a surplus population, period. Note how most historical ones have been around river valleys in relatvely temperate climates - where agriculture is easy.

Your right regarding "nordic". An advanced antediluvian civilization, on the other hand, most definitely existed, and to be frank, you're way behind the curve regarding that one. After Quelap, Gobekli Tepe and Yonaguni, even the most conservative archeologists have pushed the arrival of civilization back to about 10-13K BC.

Hitler was not an exclusive Nordicist. He was a pan-Aryan who respected the Nordic and Germanic people for different aspects.

Agree completely. Might seem ironic to many, but Hitler was quite the moderate regarding racial issues. The SS and the bio-racialist academic/party establishment were much more hardcore.

No. There is 0 evidence for any civilization on the Dogger Bank that I know of, while Gobekli Tepe and such don't significantly alter the normal perception of history. How about you post some evidence instead of making wild claims? For all we know, there may be an elaborately enameled Ming vase orbiting the Sun between Mars and Jupiter. We have no reason to think it is there, and if it was found we'd certainly have a lot of questions, but we can't prove it ISN'T there unless we literally check the entire volume of space between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter.

An advanced civilization on Doggerland would create far more questions than it would answer. How did it develop so rapidly? Where did it go? Why did their technology get uncreated - when literally every other collapsing civilization has left plenty of tech behind? You are trying to justify a fantasy.

I don't have an opinion on THAT one.

Now you went full retard. Gobekli Tepe is dated AT LEAST 10-12K BC even according to most conservative archeologists. Please inform yourself:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe

The same is true for the Yonaguni underwater complex at the coast of Japan. The fotographic evidence is stunning: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonaguni_Monument

Still holding to the Sumerian/5000BC Hypothesis in 2017 (and those two only scratch the surface) is quite embarassing, to be honest, especially given your arrogant tone.

Ok, it's a bit older than I first remember it being. But that still proves nothing, since there is no evidence of metallurgy or any other out of place technology. The dates are for earliest habitation, and coincide with the beginning of agricultural civilizations anyway. It's a bit on the old side, but nothing fundamentally upsetting.

Alright pol, so I am six foot tall with blonde hair and blues eyes with a 115 IQ. I want to make sure my children have blonde hair and blue eyes aswell, however I am worried about one genetic defect I may pass down to them.

I was diagnosed with tourette's syndrom at the age of six. If anything redpilled me to false sympathetic SJW types, it was having tourettes. The systems of my tourettes however began to vanish at age 14.

So I want to ask pol, should I still have children or go and adopt as many european kids to make sure they go off and are successful instead?

And I don't quite get what you mean by this. Early agricultural civilizations are commonly believed to have existed since at least twice that long ago. No one is disputing that. I am disputing all the ancient aryans space atlantis bullshit I see posted often, because there is no evidence for it.
pic related

This board has seen better days

Oh you're right, it only pushes back the beginning of civilization by at least 4-6K years in comparison to the (more primitive!) Sumerians, basically making it a para- or even antediluvian structure. sarcasm

Moving goalposts, and also (partially) applies to the Andean high cultures.

Come on now. As Stanford's Ian Hodder said, "Göbekli Tepe changes everything". It really does; it's a veritable revolution.

Agree, but not nearly on that level of sophistication. GT (which is only one example of such paradiluvian structures) even surpasses much of what we know of (much younger) Egyptian constructions. In comparison to GT the Sumerians were outright primitive.

Agree, but this is a bit of a strawman. I also reject alien stuff (which should not be confounded with the Atlantis mythos - two differetn things), but after all the findings of the last 15, 20 years, the existence of advanced civilization at the times of worldwide floodings as a consequence of icesheet melting simply cannot be denied anymore.

Cautiously agree, but I don't need to tell you that much of prehistoric archeology IS basically "muh rocks" or "muh holes in the ground". Early Egyptian period for example. And specifically Yasaguni is much more than some rocks. Too rectilinear, many signs of tool use, antropomorphic structures (e.g. giant heads like the Olmecs). Hancock and Izumi spent nearly five years under water, the evidence is simply astonishing and is not denied anymore the way it was denied until about 20 years ago.

While doing research on the man, I came across this quote from George Lincoln Rockwell, the leader of the old American Nazi Party and the World Union of National Socialists. (from his Playgoy interview)

I think Rockwell makes a good point. Is what OP speaks of even feasible for anyone except the NSDAP had Germany the war? And where? Germany is beyond cucked. The US, where Holla Forums and probably also National Socialism in general are the biggest consists of Whites from everywhere.

What would be the most possible and realistic option?

Had Germany won the war*

whoops, I niggered up!

This man is your FRIEND
HE FIGHTS FOR YOUR PURITY

Germany is lost. The US and slavic countries can be reclaimed, although some of them will be harder to reclaim than others (Albanians, Romanians etc. are filthy degenerates, although countries like Poland and the Czech republic would go pretty smooth since they're relatively well developed and have cultures that fit with and contribute to a vision of an aryan future).

Nothing is lost you defeatist faggot. Poland and Slavic countries don't have an Aryan vision. They have a Slavic vision. Forcing Germany down the drain through US involvement in Europe will end the Aryan dream. No other people has such a predisposition to Aryandom. Read Wagner and show me one person who was non-German that was capable of such an awareness. There is a natural hierarchy even among White people and in the European puzzle Germany has the function of a regenerative nucleus. The best thing that could happen is the disintegration of the US through a financial collapse. And exactly because of this point the US won't let its filthy fingers from Europe. The ECB is used as a printing press to prop up the failing US economy and its global financial hegemony. The US is killing the Western world because it can't disconnect from globalism without killing itself. In the end the US won't rescue itself anyways but it'll drag everybody down with it. Furthermore declining German birthrates will still mean more German people than French/British/etc. because the population is bigger to begin with (plus Austrians, Swiss people). The biggest goal of the US is to prevent a German-Russian alliance which would force the US out of Europe.

"Hey guys, whatcha doing?"

I'll add to your list of mistakes the fact that Hitler was too attached to elegant but outdated bolt action guns when he should have jumped fully into assault rifles. Also, he was too obsessed with "miracle" weapons and prioritized expensive "miracle" weapons over mass production. One hyper expensive super-tank will not defeat an army of 100 cheap tanks.

Welcome to Holla Forums

It has actually spurred some interesting discussion, go fuck yourself.

Go back to reddit you nigger-loving-cuck.

He's not welcome, and if you weren't a summerfag, you'd know that.

They were Germanics. "Nordic" has a specific meaning, we really need to be careful with terminology here. Aryans CAN be Nordics, but not all Nordics are Aryan, haplogroup analysis clearly shows this (kladdes I2 vs. R1a/b).

???
I'm not even Scandi, (I2a1b here btw), but you gotta admit they made a couple decent empires. Pic related. Kingdom of Sweden wasn't anything to laugh at either at its height.

Also do not forget that the Normans who took charge of France and were norwegian/danish. The same goes for England, their aristocracy was of danish/norwegian stock.

Scandinavian leadership formed much of western european history.

Hitler didn't go far enough. He was too kind. We must be pragmatic. MAKE GENOCIDE REAL!

Vanir vs Aesir, user. The uberNords are Vanir.

bumping this so i can read it.
Ô_Ô)b

Required reading for everyone on Holla Forums

SS Race Theory and Mate Selection Guidelines
It's easy to find on /pdfs/. It's a translation of materials produced by the SS for the preservation of the folk.

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