Yo, Holla Forums here, so do you guys accept Stalin as our guy instead of your guy?

Sage

etc.

- the doctor plot
- wikipedia
- the NEP as enforced by Lenin is still present in Stalin time, and the state which is lead by him controls the means of production
- it's the breakaway of him compared to Trotsky who wants International Communism

Except private properties still exist in his time, not all kulaks were destroyed (in fact some were spared and they just gave tribute to the USSR), and massive industralization has nothing to do with leftism, remember the capitalist industrial revolution?

proofs?

proofs?

All in Wikipedia, my friend.

Hitler killed 5.8 million jews.
Stalins purges and killings killed 120,000 at tops.

The actual amount of Hitler's jew killed remains dubious and there's little to no evidence if the killing is intentional.

All in Wikipedia, my friend

OK?

Wikipedia lists Stalin as a dirty anti-semite too, brah.

Please learn to read.

No, you're wrong because
-private property didn't exist anymore
-kulaks were all dead
-industrialization was needed to wreck the nazis

source : it's all in Stalin's books my friend :)

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Anti-semites are nazis.

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Stalin is anything but a nazi therefor he is not anti-semite.

Quite a coincidence, Stalin purged all bolsheviks.

Well, his ideology was "socialism in one country", sound fucking similar to me.

Not true, since he also was for the independence of Tanu Tuva and Mongolia as socialist states.

Socialism in one country means anything but socialism in one country. This is demostrated by the creation of peoples socialist republics in Eastern Europe.

He purged bukharinites and troskites. And he was a bolshevik himself. If he is a bolshevik, then he is both a jew and anti-semite, am i right?

He was an internationalist as much as other communists. It's just a different approach to it.

No, that's a pretty apt description, he funded socialist "countries".

He's not like Trotsky, who wanted to abolish countries/nations.

Trosky never wanted to abolish those states but rather to keep the role of state more minimalist in it`s nature.

He killed ALL the bolsheviks in Lenin's time, and Lenin himself considered Stalin not worthy of being the Soviet supreme leader.
Marx was a jew and a racist/anti-semite.
Nah, Stalin actually banned the International and made a Soviet national anthem, he was not an internationalist.

Trotsky is a hardlined marxist and his future is either one world government or no fucking state or at all.

Not true, since he did support independence of Finland for example.

As a way to turn it against Germany.

Kaganovich, Molotov, Voroshilov to name some

So much that he picked Stalin for the role

He wasn't

He changed the national anthem from the internationale to something else. You make it sound completely different. Stalin was prominent in the Comintern and later founded the Cominform.

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These are loyal to him.
Lenin changed his fucking mind.
Marx was absolutely a jew and a racist/anti-semite, self-hating jew is a thing.
He changed it because his breakway from Trotsky, his ideology also changed.

Instead of doing more push to make the world red, he isolated and closed the curtain.

Yeah, stalin was a right-winger coming to power in a left wing dictatorship.
Genocidal violence always comes from the right.
he's "your guy"

good
But not by genocide
shit
Strategic
Nothing wrong with preserving history
shit
False
If by "one country" you mean uniting all the world into one big country, that is what all communists want. He funded massive overseas regimes and groups.

Didn't kill all bolsheviks lol

Lenin was mad at some quarreling unrelated to the Party. If you actually read his testament you would know it.

noo

Look I'm projecting

So much that he defeated fascism, created a dozen more communist countries and created a new communist internationale after the war.

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Of course, he didn't kill those who are loyal to him, but that's because they are stalinist by that point
He sent dudes to kill Trotsky with an icepick.
Yes, countries, not one Soviet country.
It was only one, and everyone fucking left it. After that, Stalin isolated the fucking USSR from the International.

And I happily accept it.

Quite funny because the authoritian right is better at "socialism" than the left is.

I'm pretty fucking sure Lenin did not want Stalin to succeed him, this is why Stalin himself isolated Lenin from the Party.

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Actually, even in the USSR, different countries still exist.

It's an union, not an internationalist state.

But right wingers actually can do any good for society.

Look at Napoleon, nigger codified math.

If you ever read Stalin, which I assume you didn't, Stalinism and marxism-leninism is the same thing

Because trotsky and his followers (trotskists) are a menace. Look, they are your guys, trots often allied with fascists to reach their goals.

Annexing countries is imperialism. That's what trotsky would have done btw.

lol no

read Lenin's testament before saying "pretty sure"

By that logic the united states is also not one country.

Marxisim-leninism/stalinism is not marxism.
Stalin allied with Hitler before WW2.
But Stalin himself did plenty of annexing, look at Belarus.
It is though?
Please point it to me.

Good research

The United States is one country.

But the Soviet Union is a collection of different countries, they don't even speak the same languages or share the same military.

Yeah, it's completely different and shows just how much Lenin really loved Stalin:

And Hitler, he purged jews, just like Stalin did.

It is. If you think it isn't you are just uneducated and trying to tell me about my ideology.

epic argument bro. I'm not even going to explain that. Look it up on your own

Belarus joined the Union.

Then learn to reading comprehension

Seems like Lenin didn't like Stalin not for ideological reasons, but because he fucked something up, namely with Krupskaya. Also layer she supported him as well

you religious reactionaries are the most fun thing to happen to the internet since GWB was elected US president

Religion is inherent reactionary since it's anti-materialist.

Your ideology is straight up not marxism, but more a kin to fascism (marriage of govt and corporation).
The Molotov-ribbentrop pact?
Just like Czech joined Nazi Germany.

There was no private property, so it isn't.

Belarus joined the Union just like any country could join the EU

The private properties actually did exist in Stalin's time, but Stalin's concept of public property is no different than his own private property, he holds the means of production.
Belarus has no fucking choice but to join.

Nope and nope

OK, brah, whatever.

At least you tankies would be my brothers in the fight against leftist degenerates i.e. tru-marxists and anarchists to preserve the "DotP".

No, you're getting the rope. Death to fascists.

As Churchill said "the fascists in the future would be anti-fascists".

Because Churchill's a liberal. I'm glad to kill anyone I have to

That's dems real racist stuff

But none of those examples lasted over 100 years. They failed.

That's why you would be our brother, my friend.

We will guide you to kill all the anarchists and tru-marxists, just like you did with the Black Army and Trotsky.

Your original point implied that Lenin did actually want Stalin to succeed him which isn't at all true. I don't know why you even bothered pretending as if it was.

And why don't you learn to read? It wasn't simply "for personal reasons" but to safeguard against a split because of Stalin's coarseness and inability to function well as the general secretary, unless you think capriciousness, cruelty, disloyalty, and intolerance are positive qualities in that role–but you're a tankie, so of course you do.

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So did fascism

how about no?? I have no issues with other marxists, as long they aren't trots or dangerous to the revolution

But they are, they always are though, because dissinters lead to weakness and infighting.

Need purge, now!

sage

So who chose Stalin as next secretary? it was Lenin.

It was. Stalin had been rude to Krupskaya and Lenin went mad.

also

nice, will never doubt about you again

Fascism was defeated by force

Tankies are not BTFO'ing OP though, in fact, they are showing how fascistic/non-marxist they are.

"In 1922 Lenin had a stroke and was forced to stop political work. He continued writing and even wrote significant works such as “On Co-operation” which argued in favor of the possibility of building Socialism in one country. However his condition deteriorated, he had another stroke and was confined to a wheelchair. He still tried to keep in touch with politics and dictated several letters and other documents until he eventually lost the ability to speak.

But what is this about rudeness? Stalin was made responsible of Lenin’s health by the Central Committee (Stalin, Trotsky, Dzerzhinsky, Kalinin, Molotov, Bukharin, Zinoviev etc.). The doctors ordered that Lenin was not to be involved in politics because he had to avoid stress. He was also prohibited from reading political documents.

Lenin didn’t like it one bit although he jokinly said to Stalin:“I am not allowed to read the newspapers”,”and I must not talk politics. I carefully avoid every scrap of paper lying on the table, lest it turn out to be a newspaper and lead to a breach of discipline.”
(Comrade Lenin on Vacation, notes)

As his condition worsened he grew agitated and frustrated. Stalin was constantly there making sure he wasn’t doing political work. Lenin eventually asked his wife N. Krupskaya and his sister M. Ulyanova to start smuggling him political documents which they did against the doctors orders. It is quite probably that this is the reason why Lenin was agitated with Stalin and probably emotionally unstable due to his severe condition.

Note that the part where Lenin criticizes Stalin’s rudeness was a later addition to letter II. In the original later he said nothing about Stalin’s rudeness. Having known Stalin for years it seems odd that he would suddenly become so concerned about his manners unless it was because of his illness.

I think its worthwhile to hear the opinion of Lenin’s sister Maria:

“There was an incident between Lenin and Stalin which comrade Zinoviev mentions in his speech and which took place not long before Ilyich lost his power of speech (March, 1923) but it was completely personal and had nothing to do with politics. Comrade Zinoviev knew this very well and to quote it was absolutely unnecessary. This incident took place because on the demand of the doctors the Central Committee gave Stalin the charge of keeping a watch so that no political news reached Lenin during this period of serious illness. This was done so as not to upset him and so that his condition did not deteriorate, he (Stalin) even scolded his family for conveying this type of information. Ilyich, who accidentally came to know about this and who was also always worried about such a strong regime of protection, in turn scolded Stalin. Stalin apologized and with this the incident was settled. What is there to be said – during this period, as I had indicated, if Lenin had not been so seriously ill then he would have reacted to the incident differently. There are documents regarding this incident and on the first demand from the Central Committee I can present them.

This way, I affirm that all the talk of the opposition about Lenin’s relation towards Stalin does not correspond to reality. These relations were most intimate and friendly and remained so.”"

So Stalin purposely isolated Lenin from his own party.

Lenin wasn't fucking dumb for once.

apart from all the times Hitler talked about wiping out the Jews in his speeches.

You faggots really do clutch at straws don't you

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Stalin himself also vocally voiced his distaste for jews.

USSR fell because of opportunist bukharinites that took power after 1953.

He talked about removing global banking scams, ie the kikes. When did Hitler ever mention wiping out the Jews friendo? It's nonsense.

I'm not defending Stalin. I'd defend Lenin. I would not defend Stalin. Stalin's anti-antisemitism does not negate Hitlers.

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Stalin started to blame jews in his later years.

He was mad jews are always loyal to their Zion nation state, and not the Soviet nation state.

I've read anything from Stalin and never found what you're talking about. Post sources.

But Stalin is anti-semite, and no, I defend Stalin, because like Hitler, he's also a right winger.

But unlike Hitler, Stalin actually purged jews, during peace time.

Nonetheless, Stalin began a new purge with repressing his wartime allies, the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee. In January 1948, Solomon Mikhoels was assassinated on Stalin's personal orders in Minsk. His murder was disguised as a hit-and-run car accident. Mikhoels was taken to MGB dacha and killed, along with his non-Jewish colleague Golubov-Potapov, under supervision of Stalin's Deputy Minister of State Security Sergei Ogoltsov. Their bodies were then dumped on a road-side in Minsk[29][30]

Despite Stalin's willingness to support Israel early on, various historians suppose that antisemitism in the late 1940s and early 1950s was motivated by Stalin's possible perception of Jews as a potential "fifth column" in light of a pro-Western Israel in the Middle East. Orlando Figes suggests that
“

After the foundation of Israel in May 1948, and its alignment with the USA in the Cold War, the 2 million Soviet Jews, who had always remained loyal to the Soviet system, were portrayed by the Stalinist regime as a potential fifth column. Despite his personal dislike of Jews, Stalin had been an early supporter of a Jewish state in Palestine, which he had hoped to turn into a Soviet satellite in the Middle East. But as the leadership of the emerging state proved hostile to approaches from the Soviet Union, Stalin became increasingly afraid of pro-Israeli feeling among Soviet Jews. His fears intensified as a result of Golda Meir's arrival in Moscow in the autumn of 1948 as the first Israeli ambassador to the USSR. On her visit to a Moscow synagogue on Yom Kippur (13 October), thousands of people lined the streets, many of them shouting Am Yisroel chai ('The people of Israel live!')—a traditional affirmation of national renewal to Jews throughout the world but to Stalin a dangerous sign of 'bourgeois Jewish nationalism' that subverted the authority of the Soviet state.[31]

Yeah, fucking sure, m8.

Nothing wrong going right there.

Dilbert Merchant would be proud, kek

This is precisely why you failed. Global banking a multi-racial pursuit,

See us commies, we want to directly remove the relationships that allow global banking.

You retardedly think killing off some practitioners will cure it.

We want to kill the roots while you pluck the petals.

He talked about killing jews sososo many times anyways he did not make apologies about it. Your cowardice would probably disgust him.

Also you are literally saying

….FAGGOT

He was indeed an anti-zionist

I'm not a doctor. And the whole "pls remove Stalin" happened rightly because of this. So, assuming doctors were okay on Lenin doing stuff, we'd still have had Stalin and there won't be anything against him from Lenin.

The fire hasn't risen brother

During the night of 12–13 August 1952, remembered as the "Night of the Murdered Poets" (Ночь казнённых поэтов), thirteen of the most prominent Yiddish writers of the Soviet Union were executed on the orders of Stalin. Among the victims were Peretz Markish, David Bergelson and Itzik Fefer.

In a 1 December 1952 Politburo session, Stalin announced: "Every Jewish nationalist is the agent of the American intelligence service. Jewish nationalists think that their nation was saved by the USA. . . They think they are indebted to the Americans. Among doctors, there are many Jewish nationalists."[38]

A notable campaign to quietly remove Jews from positions of authority within the state security services was carried out in 1952–1953. The Russian historians Zhores and Roy Medvedev wrote that according to MVD General Sudoplatov, "simultaneously all Jews were removed from the leadership of the security services, even those in very senior positions. In February the anti-Jewish expulsions were extended to regional branches of the MGB. A secret directive was distributed to all regional directorates of the MGB on 22 February, ordering that all Jewish employees of the MGB be dismissed immediately, regardless of rank, age or service record. . . .[39]".

And like Hitler, he fucked things up immensely.

Both of them in fact managed to dirty the name of their movements for the next 80 years.

Fascism hasn't failed but it just transferred to other states.

USSR was fascistic and so is the USSR.

Fixed

sure

Without Hitler, people wouldn't know of the jew crimes.

Without Stalin, there wouldn't be a fucking USSR for you to remember.

I'm a nazi though.

Just admit that Stalin himself is a red nazi, who unironically purged jews and restored Russian traditions that were supposed to dead by the kike Lenin.

I don't care. I care about international capitalism.

Stalin did not create the USSR, and there were very many other options for leader.

No, of Jews were shot in the East mainly, but he never set up a series of elaborate death for millions, they had neither the time nor the resources, the will is debatable too.

There isn't a scrap of evidence they had the infrastructure to gas and burn that many corpses, and the claims of death camps such as Treblinka are impossible. Everything rests on one tiny delousing room in Auswitz, that's why they made up the 'showers as gas chamber' stories (impossible, they fucked up saying zyklon b was the killer as you could never use it like that.

Fascism has utterly failed.

Its a veritable goldmine of shitty economics.

From the third Reich to Chile to the USA.

Another jew crime since jews literally invented banking.
Stalin defended the USSR and lead it to its most prosperous time.

Where's the USSR now?

There's still Germany, Russia, Chile and the USA.

Nope and Nope.

Nope.

Fascist. That is, coroporatist, capitalist, authoritarian and nationalist. It is also failing.

Call me when it fails m8.

The USSR already failed, and there's no socialist state in sight.

Even the kurds in Rojava now enjoy aids from the USA.

Oh shit, did they rape that twitter guy and get poz?

I mean, guns, ammos, SF training, even foods, medicines…

I know brother

Good thing I'm a monarchist.

Wow, you are unironically this fucking stupid are you?

You're the one denying facts, m8

But… you don't have to be a Nazi to do any of those things. In fact they're not even exclusive to Nazism.

Keep your suicidal failure at painting, Stalin is not a symbol of European power for neopagan white nationalists to jerk off to.

So, the secret to socialism is clapping and never stopping until being told to in order not to get shot?

False Flag Shitposting 101 for Anarkiddies

Everyone in this thread is an idiot.
Sage

And?

When you do all these things, you are a right winger.

Who are you to say that? Stalin is a symbol of european power.

including a 3-story mansion

Lenin and Trotsky were billionaires in today's money. Most of it came from "seizing the means of production" from the kulaks and aristocrats.

Redistribution of wealth, am I right?

true pirates after all

Like gun rights would exist in your ideal nation if it's logistically possible for dissenters to have them

Stalin didn't kill more Jews that Hitler, that wouldn't even be possible since Hitler killed more than half of all the Jews in Europe, but OP is at least right that Holla Forums would be far less retarded if they worshiped Stalin instead of Hitler.
Everything Hitler set out to do, Stalin accomplished and did better. Stalin was actually a competent statesmen, where Hitler was completely fucking retarded "Hurr durr, lets never give written orders for anything and never settle disputes between subordinates, because survival of the fittest applies to bureaucrats. and Rommel can disobey whatever orders he wants, because he's an oldfag and my friend, now I'm going to get up at 2 PM and go on long walks and watch movies all day in Austria, don't both me after 9, I'll be busy sucking Goebbel's dick. Oh hey, we lost the war we were fighting against every other country in the world? Well obviously this is the fault of the army and my cowardly generals and the cowardly German people, fuck you Steiner, why has everyone failed me? well all Germans should perish now, it's better that they all German women be incubators for slavic rape babies now, since Russians are obviously superior. God damn, If only I had gassed all my officers like they did, and if only we didn't get raped by the Greeks for a month too long, and if only the battle of Britain wasn't a retarded plan. Well fuck It, shoot my clone, and prepare the V2, I'm going to go live on the moon-base" ~ Hitler's Memoir's Volume II, pp 304-305

you need to stop being so stoopid

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Please stop

what do you call a man who sent 1/3rd of the world down the path of socialism if not influential?
but wait, he was a Georgian peasant, who took over a backwards, under industrialized nation, that was over-due to be attacked by the Germans, and he proceeded to lead the soviet union to win the largest war in human history.

everything is le anarkiddies fault XDD

Stop this. That's like saying if I was building a car and someone comes over with a hammer and breaks it that makes building cars a failed system.

Tankies are just assblasted there has never been a systemic genocide by anarchists in history so they have to cover up their crimes by calling people kulaks and revisionists while anarchists have a clean record. Stay mad, tankfags.

Russia is not European
Russia is not Middle Eastern
Russia is not Asian
Russia is Russian

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Free bump

Totalitarian ideologies do not function in a rational fashion. One of the reasons the Nazis lost the war in the first place is arguably their obsession with eliminating the Jews by allocating so much time and resource to carrying out the Holocaust at the expense of their military campaigns. Heck, some in the German military even dared voice their concern about it.

History isn't a fucking trading-card game you imbecile.
Holla Forums really do have a grade-school level understanding of the world.

The Germans did, they acted very rationally. They would have needed to put an impossible amount of effort into cremating corpses

In most cases the German's reduced the body to the least amount they could. Also "10,000 - 20,000" a day is a generalisation, while in many cases open air fire pits were used. Burning the bodies using cremation was only one of the methods of disposal, and in many cases they were never properly cremated.

See, The Destruction of European Jewry.

Jesus, then where are the bodies, they wouldn't have to invent elaborate means of disposal if this was the case.

Where are the Treblinka bodies, 1 million they claimed buried, dug up, burned then reburied, but not a single pit shown on geophyisical tests. Because it was a transit camp.

No, they didn't. Read a fucking book instead of pulling stuff outta your own ass.

The Nazis mobilized transportation, infrastructure, personnel and resources in significant amounts for the sole purpose of deportation, internment and extermination as they were fighting a war of unprecedented scale on the Eastern front.

Reminder that the Nazi had pretty much everything they needed to produce nukes but were not able to carry any related project to fruition because they dismissed theoretical physics as "Jewish science". That's how "rational" these idiots were.

Stalin was alt-left before it was cool. Holla Forums is mostly traditional and new left.

I gotta admit that was pretty funny (and kinda true).

Bullshit it doesn't. In a pre-industrialized society like Russia in the early-twentieth century, industrialization is perfectly in line with historical materialism.

8ch.net/pol/res/8039652.html

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OP. Come to

turdpositionist.freeforums.net

This.

No, he uses the word "austrotten" to refer to Jews in the speech. In the context of living things, "austrotten" means to annihilate - to murder. But that doesn't change the 1000's of photographs, witness testimony and documentary evidence backing up the Holocaust - even if Hitler never explicitly said "let's murder the Jews".

To be 100% fair
This argument hinges too much on "muh six billion trillion", "muh sixty billion trillion" and "muh rootless cosmopolites"
He mostly resurrected it to use as another propaganda tool. And, honestly, it was a mistake, he should've winded it down after WW2, because ROC is cancer.
Bullshit, he wasn't a nationalist, it is just a myth invented by retarded Russian "monarcho-stalinists".
This subject is a bit iffy, because on one hand private business did exist in USSR under Stalin in form of "artels", but on other hand, I'm not sure how big it was - CPRF insists that it was rivaling the state-owned industry in some areas, but it's CPRF we're talking about, of course they will perpetuate "WE WUZ CAPITALISTS AND SHIT" angle.
Yes, and?
Fun fact: modern Russia has even worse gun control.